Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax?  
User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Many people buy online because there is no sales tax, which makes me ask, do you agree with paying sales tax online?

In Tennessee, Amazon is required to start collecting sales tax starting in 2014. However, Amazon has sent out notices to customers in TN who have bought items on Amazon that they are "required" to pay sales tax for items already bought. According to the law, it is "required", but since Amazon doesn't report the sales to TN, TN has no way of forcing you to pay the sales tax owed.

I'm unsure if the law only applies to Amazon, or all online retailers. I believe it is just Amazon.

Many people disagree with paying sales tax online, although there are many benefits. The state would gain millions of dollars in revenue. If the prices are similar after tax online, it might encourage people to shop locally.

So what are your thoughts on this issue? Should the internet be a "tax free" zone? Or should online retailers be forced to collect sales tax?

132 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

I am generally anti-tax... try keep America healthy and safe but not much more, and tax as little as possible and people keep their money, attract businesses...

That being said, I don't really see how online companies can really be "exempt." Neither the customer nor the online store exist in some virtual reality, their earnings and expenses are reported somewhere, I think they should pay tax like anyone else in the jurisdiction. I will, however, continue to try and tax as little as possible, but I don't think online should be an exception



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Sales taxes should be reduced to compete with other legal commerce. Otherwise it is natural that local businesses will be devastated...

Best Buy is in the fight of its life right now because of this issue. Of course police and fire need to be paid. Property taxes are a good way to do that. Income taxes are also a fine way to do that, at the state level.


User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

In most states the customers already owe the tax, it is just called a use tax and the customer is supposed to report it either with their income tax return or through some other process.

User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 3):
In most states the customers already owe the tax, it is just called a use tax and the customer is supposed to report it either with their income tax return or through some other process.

Yes, I believe Tennessee has something similar to that. In fact, that is what Amazon is doing now to TN residents. However, I don't think the companies are required to report the sales to the state, therefore the state doesn't get the tax. It is up to the consumer to pay the tax or not.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Income taxes are also a fine way to do that, at the state level.

Except for the states with no income tax, such as Tennessee. That is another issue that I didn't think of until just now. Tennessee has no income tax, but has one of the highest income taxes in the country (7%, plus an additional 1.5%-2.75% for city and county tax). I suppose that states with no income tax need the revenue from sales tax to compensate for no income tax.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21625 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
In Tennessee, Amazon is required to start collecting sales tax starting in 2014. However, Amazon has sent out notices to customers in TN who have bought items on Amazon that they are "required" to pay sales tax for items already bought. According to the law, it is "required", but since Amazon doesn't report the sales to TN, TN has no way of forcing you to pay the sales tax owed.

I'm unsure if the law only applies to Amazon, or all online retailers. I believe it is just Amazon.

There are two problems here. One is if this tax applies only to Amazon (it should apply to any online retailer, or brick-and-mortar store that sells stuff online). The other is that Amazon is basically enabling tax evasion.

If the jurisdiction question is difficult, just make it a federal sales tax - some people have been clamoring for that for some time - and you can reduce (though not eliminate) income tax rates accordingly. But I've got no issue with sales taxes being paid on online purchases.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 5033 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

I think that tax should only be collected if you are a resident of the state that the item was sold in. If you live in another state the taxes needn't be paid.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
So what are your thoughts on this issue? Should the internet be a "tax free" zone? Or should online retailers be forced to collect sales tax?

If you're OK with paying sales tax at a brick and mortar place, then paying it to TN, via Amazon shouldn't phase you one bit.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
In Tennessee, Amazon is required to start collecting sales tax starting in 2014. However, Amazon has sent out notices to customers in TN who have bought items on Amazon that they are "required" to pay sales tax for items already bought. According to the law, it is "required", but since Amazon doesn't report the sales to TN, TN has no way of forcing you to pay the sales tax owed.

Here in KY, you are supposed to report any purchases made online, or out of town (if you didn't pay sales tax there) and pay the Caesar his due. Of course, short of a physical inspection or tracking you through online retailers and/or your credit card usage, there is no way to enforce this.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
I'm unsure if the law only applies to Amazon, or all online retailers. I believe it is just Amazon.

It should be everyone. Otherwise, Amazon is being targeted by government action and potentially enriching other online merchants.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
There are two problems here. One is if this tax applies only to Amazon (it should apply to any online retailer, or brick-and-mortar store that sells stuff online). The other is that Amazon is basically enabling tax evasion.

I agree with you. It should apply to everyone. I believe it is only Amazon though because of the numerous Amazon facilities they have here in TN.


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 8):
I agree with you. It should apply to everyone. I believe it is only Amazon though because of the numerous Amazon facilities they have here in TN.

As I understand it, under current law, if a retailer exists in your state, the state can collect sales tax, even though they participate only in online sales. It could well be that Amazon has been able to skate because they act as a middle man, but not a retailer? A very thin excuse, if that's the case.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

From the point of view of local commerce, it's exceedingly unfair that sales taxes are applied to brick-and-mortar stores, but not online stores. If there is going to be sales tax, it should be applied to all purchases.

The issue is: should the applicable online sales tax be from the state in which the merchant is located or from the state in which the customer is located? I would submit that the latter makes more sense.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

I recently bought a Seattle Seahawks Elite Home Jersey (Doug Baldwin #89) from Nike.com for $250. (You know, one of those almost real game jerseys) Nike taxed me $10 for the jersey, but the shipping was free.

Generally, I am against online sales to be taxed. I don't see the need to have online sales tax when the product you buy is not from your State, even though your State wants the taxes from it. I think it is ridiculous. It is just a money grabbing thing and an "entitlement" issue on the State's part.

And don't get me started on the Death/Inheritance Tax. That one is wayyyyyyyy BEYOND stupid.

[Edited 2013-01-15 15:02:22]


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

I am not quite sure why a sales tax for an online purchase should be paid at the recipient's shipping address, instead of the retailer's HQ or warehouse of origin. If I lived in the U.S., near a state border, surely, if I crossed the state border and went to a brick-and-mortar shop to buy something, surely I'd be paying the tax in the location of said brick-and-mortar store, even if I took it home to the state next door?


I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Generally, I am against online sales to be taxed. I don't see the need to have online sales tax when the product you buy is not from your State, even though your State wants the taxes from it. I think it is ridiculous. It is just a money grabbing thing and an "entitlement" issue on the State's part.

Actually, I see it as more of a 'leveling the playing field" type argument. Your run of the mill brick and mortar place has to charge sales tax, why shouldn't the online retailer?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
why shouldn't the online retailer?

Because the online retailer has no idea where the product is going to come from if they have 15 shipping warehouses around the country. That is the problem.

Another problem is that the online retailer isn't doing a face-to-face transaction as well.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Best Buy is in the fight of its life right now because of this issue.

No, not really. Not even close

Sure, some people shop online for the tax savings, but the majority do it because of the price differences. Sites like Buy.com, Amazon, and other's offer the same products for much less. I bought my camera kit on Buy.com because it was $200 cheaper than Best Buy, who wouldn't honor the buy.com price. That was BEFORE the tax savings (shipping was free). The problem with Best Buy and every other big box electronics stores is that they have to have many many physical locations, with many many employees, and a high stock level.. THAT'S Best Buys issue. Not saving a few dollars on taxes. If that's what they are claiming, no wonder they are in trouble.

And it's not just electronics. I needed a new Headlight assembly for my Envoy. Found it on Amazon for $44 after shipping, and yes, no tax. The EXACT SAME PART from the EXACT SAME BRAND NAME (aftermaket) was close to $200 at all of the local brick and mortar Auto Parts store. The tax savings was meaningless.

That being said, I don't see how a state (where the buyer is located) can charge sales tax on an item that was sold in another state. I do, however, see where a state (where the seller is located) can make the retailer charge tax. Tax collected should be from the location where the item was bought, not shipped to.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
Many people buy online because there is no sales tax, which makes me ask, do you agree with paying sales tax online?


In Canada, our value-added tax (national) is applied on-line as well as at the checkout.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
So what are your thoughts on this issue? Should the internet be a "tax free" zone? Or should online retailers be forced to collect sales tax?

No and yes. As DocLightning pointed out, no tax online penalises local bricks-and-mortars outfits.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 15):
I don't see how a state (where the buyer is located) can charge sales tax on an item that was sold in another state. I do, however, see where a state (where the seller is located) can make the retailer charge tax. Tax collected should be from the location where the item was bought, not shipped to.

I see what you are saying, I think I can agree with this. My Nike.com order should have been tax free since Nike itself is based in Oregon, a sales tax free state. I should be able to take advantage of that right off the bat. But they still charged me $10 sales tax. That makes no sense.

If I buy a product in the State of California, I'll be happy to pay sales tax to that State since that is where it came from. It supports their economy. Now if I buy a product from a Sales Tax Free State (like Oregon or Alaska(?) for example), then I should have my order tax free.

I don't know, I am now feeling 50/50 on this issue.... It really depends on the situation.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 15):
Tax collected should be from the location where the item was bought, not shipped to.

Actually, the law has it other way around. IIRC, people who buy from Amazon are obligated to pay the sales taxes to the state where they personally reside, if they get around to it. Of course, nobody does it, this isn't open to new legal theories really.

As far as I know, Best Buy officially matches Amazon prices 100% if you bring it to their attention. I know Target does.
See here: http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/tar...bestbuy-com-toyrus-com-year-round/

But if you are buying a $700 TV, that is 50 bucks in sales taxes Target or Best Buy will charge you, that Amazon will not. It is the elephant in the room for these guys.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3111 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 15):
I do, however, see where a state (where the seller is located) can make the retailer charge tax.

US sales tax system is a complete mess. IIRC there are some 3,500 different schedules depending on product and location including such fun rules as tax only collected on the first x dollars of each item. E.g. if I have a business located in Ft Lauderdale and and someone buy things in my store the rate is 6% but if I ship it to Miami-Dade the rate is 7% but that extra 1% is only for the first 5,000 on any item. So if I sell two items for 5,500 each the tax is (5,500 x 6% + 5,000 x 1%) x 2 = 760 but if I make a package of the two items then the tax is (11,000 x 6% + 5,000 x 1%) = 710. It s crazy.

That said the principle is that you pay the tax where the item(s) is delivered. Something that follows how it is done in international trade.


User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 15):
That being said, I don't see how a state (where the buyer is located) can charge sales tax on an item that was sold in another state. I do, however, see where a state (where the seller is located) can make the retailer charge tax. Tax collected should be from the location where the item was bought, not shipped to.

I agree. I don't see how it is fair where if I was to buy something online from New York, yet Tennessee would charge the sales tax. New York would be getting ripped off on sales tax.

I think we would be better off with some sort of universal online sales tax, but I can't see that happening.


User currently offlinetz757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

This is one of the few times it's actually nice to live in DE (0%).

But I am for it. If you are buying a product from somewhere that has sales tax, tax it like it was being bought there in person.



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 21):
If you are buying a product from somewhere that has sales tax, tax it like it was being bought there in person.

   Agreed. It shouldn't matter where the purchaser is residing in.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12250 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3087 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As far as I know, if an online retailer has ANY business presence in a state, they are required to collect sales tax in that state. For example, Amazon has a call center in GFK. Hence, I need to pay sales tax. However, if I order it as a gift and ship it to another state where they don't have a presence, no tax is charged.


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3087 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
Agreed. It shouldn't matter where the purchaser is residing in.

It doesn't. It matters where the goods are delivered.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 24):
It matters where the goods are delivered.

No, it should not. It matters where the goods either 1) Are shipped from or.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money. The sales taxes, IMO, should go to the State where the company has their HQ base to support THAT State's economy.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

For what ever reasons, sales tax is the major funding source of most states.

For online retailers to be exempt from the collection of sales tax on sales to people in a state deprives the people, the children of the state, from money needed for essential services. And causes other taxpayers in the state to have to pay an unfair burden of the taxes.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
It should be everyone. Otherwise, Amazon is being targeted by government action and potentially enriching other online merchants.

Amazon is targeted because (1) they have a physical presence in Tennessee, that fulfills orders for Tennessee residents. We went through the same thing here in Texas with Amazon. And (2) they are big enough to make it worth the state's efforts to go after them for sales tax.

Small sellers might get away with not collecting sales tax, because enforcement is too expensive.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
Another problem is that the online retailer isn't doing a face-to-face transaction as well.

What has that got to do with the price of sweet potatoes. The online retainer and the brick and mortar retailer are no different legally.

Or are you saying the online retailer should not have to live up to the legal requirements for providing services for payment rendered the same as a brick and mortar retailers.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
I think I can agree with this. My Nike.com order should have been tax free since Nike itself is based in Oregon, a sales tax free state. I should be able to take advantage of that right off the bat. But they still charged me $10 sales tax. That makes no sense.

Was your Nike product shipped from a warehouse in Oregon?

I'm pretty sure it was not.

One thing I'm familiar with is purchase of large, expensive bus type RVs. Many people here in Texas will create an Oregon corporation and purchase their RV in Oregon. License and insure it in Oregon. To save sales taxes - which can be quite a bit of money on a $500-800,000 RV.

However, they find they have to pay the sales tax before they can sell the RV/ trade it in - in Texas and most other states.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money.

I'm sure the state of Arkansas would love to collect sales taxes on all sales at Walmarts worldwide.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 26):
Was your Nike product shipped from a warehouse in Oregon?

No, it was not. It was shipped from a warehouse in Florida, which I was completely surprised about. That probably explains why I paid $10 in FL sales tax, if that is what it was. I have a hard time believing that it was CO sales tax. But I think it should be no sales tax since Nike is based in Oregon.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
I'm sure the state of Arkansas would love to collect sales taxes on all sales at Walmarts worldwide.

Not gonna happen. If you purchase something in a WA Wal-Mart in person while a HI resident, for example, you pay WA sales tax. This is because you are buying something in person, rather than online. Now, if you buy something from Wal-Mart.com, then the Arkansas sales tax should apply, IMO, because that is where Wal-Mart is HQ'd.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 26):
What has that got to do with the price of sweet potatoes. The online retainer and the brick and mortar retailer are no different legally.

Or are you saying the online retailer should not have to live up to the legal requirements for providing services for payment rendered the same as a brick and mortar retailers.

What I am saying is that the taxes should be at the State where the company's HQ is in, not at the purchaser's State of residence since that is where the money is going to. See above.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 20):
I agree. I don't see how it is fair where if I was to buy something online from New York, yet Tennessee would charge the sales tax. New York would be getting ripped off on sales tax.

The one problem I see with this is - all the e-shops would register in Oregon, and there you go.

The idea is, (or at least is should be), to minimise the current "unfair advantage" that these e-commerce outlets hold against local shops.
The principle I think this should be based around is "customers physical location at the moment of purchase (or delivery of the stock) shall be regarded as place of purchase re. sales tax and other regulations". In brick-and-mortar shops this is working right now.

You are at the store, you make a purchase, you are "delivered" the goods, and that is a very definite place of purchase. One would not argue (unless I am massively misinformed about the sales tax system) that a seat of a company is in a different state, therefore you should pay that states sales tax on a location in your state.

Similarly if you make a purchase online, with delivery to a specific place (home, workplace), the adress of delivery serves the purpose of a "shopping place" for the customer, as in, "this is where I obtain the merchandise"


Sorry if my rambling is a little incoherent, it is 2AM here and I start to realize I better go to sleep.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
What I am saying is that the taxes should be at the State where the company's HQ is in, not at the purchaser's State of residence since that is where the money is going to. See above.

So you believe online retailers should be given a strong business advantage over brick and mortar stores?

That the small business man get the shaft because the big corporation has better lawyers - to pick the best states for the corporate HQ?

The lack of online retailers paying sales taxes is the biggest anti-small business issue facing the US today.

More so than any federal taxes issues.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 30):
So you believe online retailers should be given a strong business advantage over brick and mortar stores?

What I am saying is this, in case you cannot read:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
What I am saying is that the taxes should be at the State where the company's HQ is in, not at the purchaser's State of residence since that is where the money is going to.

  

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 30):
The lack of online retailers paying sales taxes is the biggest anti-small business issue facing the US today.

I don't care. I am not shopping at a small business if the product is not available through them.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

I am surprised online retailers have been able to push back for so long--it's about time tax is collected from online retailer! Tax should be collected by the retailer and sent to the jurisdiction of the purchaser. I thought this is how it's been for decades with mail-order catalogs and telephone sales? I remember hearing "If you live in California, New York, Massachusetts, or Texas add sales tax." on TV ads in the mid 1990s, well before electronic retailing took off.

This isn't a 'new' thing; it's updating the law to match technological progress!



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
So what are your thoughts on this issue? Should the internet be a "tax free" zone? Or should online retailers be forced to collect sales tax?

Put simply, I think that online retailers should have to do the same things as other business that sell and operate within a state. A brick and mortar retailer already has to contend with building fees and related expenses, taxes should not be an issue. If the items was sold in a state (or more accurately shipped to a state) then sales tax should be paid based on the state shipped to. Since we all know NO ONE voluntarily pays the sales tax on their own when they pay their states taxes, having the retailer do it has long been the best solution and just like all the other businesses in a state, this solves that issue.

With that said, I do think that the discussion really rests on to what level of "local" do you for deciding what those taxes are? Just the state level, the county (my choice), or the city? Provided the level is not as low as City, and with software etc., it will not be that big a burden.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 30):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
What I am saying is that the taxes should be at the State where the company's HQ is in, not at the purchaser's State of residence since that is where the money is going to. See above.

So you believe online retailers should be given a strong business advantage over brick and mortar stores?

No, what he is trying to advocate is a situation where all online retailers move to the one state that offers the best tax advantages (much like other industries). Which in turn will pressure the states to lower taxes just so their local businesses can compete.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Quoting N867DA (Reply 32):
I remember hearing "If you live in California, New York, Massachusetts, or Texas add sales tax." on TV ads in the mid 1990s, well before electronic retailing took off.

Ah, yes... now that you mention this, I forgot about that. Well, I have never ordered over the phone or through the mail before this internet sales took off....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Requiring online and mail order retailers to collect and forward sales taxes to the states where they are sent to leads to a costly nightmare.

Not only states, but within states (like NY), counties and cities can have their add-ons to sales tax rates at different levels. Some cities in NJ have a 3.5% State Sales tax, while outside of them it is 7%. Some states tax almost everything like food (NC), some don't tax clothing (NJ), some only tax clothing above a certain price (like NYS). Then you have exemptions like for not-for-profits and businesses that are buying for resale and processing properly them. Big retailers like Amazon can afford the software and tech to collect, distribute and otherwise follow the 1000's of state and tax sub-districts. Smaller retailers may not be able to afford it, even with exemptions or minimum amount of sales to some state.

Yes, there is no doubt all states that have sales taxes desperately want the revenues from outside the state sales to their residents, but the costs to collect and remit them for the retailers may just mean hurting them and residents of states losing out in saving money.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Thread starter):
Many people buy online because there is no sales tax


  
Most people buy online because of convenience, many items aren't available at the local store and in my case, I buy old records & tapes as well as cars and car parts that have long been out of production. Therefore the ONLY place to buy these items is online. Many 2nd hand items have been taxed already when new. Taxing online is like taxing a yard sale.
Many purchases online are for low dollar amount items so it would be silly to purchase online and wait weeks for your item to arrive in the mail just to avoid an extra 75 cent to $2 sales tax.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
Requiring online and mail order retailers to collect and forward sales taxes to the states where they are sent to leads to a costly nightmare.


  
Agreed. That is 51 different tax laws to go by, then you get in to various taxes with international purchase as well.


What I DO support is a government that knows how to control spending. That may be asking for too much.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
No, it should not. It matters where the goods either 1) Are shipped from or.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money. The sales taxes, IMO, should go to the State where the company has their HQ base to support THAT State's economy.

That doesn't make any sense when you think about it. No-one likes to pay tax but reality is that bills must get paid. In a way sales tax is a fee for being able to sell to customers in a geographic area. The alternative would be for those areas to not allow sales from outside. Or to set up border controls. Like we have between nations.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
Requiring online and mail order retailers to collect and forward sales taxes to the states where they are sent to leads to a costly nightmare.

Some 3,500 rules that change is tricky but there are companies living on providing this info. It is a background request during the checkout process. Really not difficult, and not expensive. Nothing like credit card fees and freight who are the big obstacles in most internet sales business plans.


User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
Many purchases online are for low dollar amount items so it would be silly to purchase online and wait weeks for your item to arrive in the mail just to avoid an extra 75 cent to $2 sales tax.

Sorry, I meant more for big ticket items and avoiding more $50 or more in sales tax. But yes, you are right, many people also buy online because it is way cheaper online then in store.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3025 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 38):
I meant more for big ticket items and avoiding more $50 or more in sales tax.


I bought my car on ebay and the state collected their taxes when I registered the vehicle.
High dollar items tend to be cars, motorcycles, boats, RVs and trailers which requires registration and therefore get's taxed by the state anyway.
If someone sales a used guitar or record or stereo equipment that ends up going for a lot of money in a bidding war, then kudos to the seller.   
It's their money and the state shouldn't collect a dime.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 38):
many people also buy online because it is way cheaper online then in store.


No. Many people buy online because many items are ONLY available online - particularly 2nd hand items.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6653 posts, RR: 11
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3030 times:

In the EU where value added tax is common, online makes no difference. However when you order from another member country, it used to be that you paid the local tax of the website, for example I used to order computer parts from Germany that had a 16% tax when the French one was 21,6%. Things were cheaper even before tax, and the German market for such things is somehow more reactive/competitive than the French one, so it was interesting even if shipping was more costly.

Then there was some change and it was decided that online shops should apply the tax of the destination country instead, unless they don't sell to that country or very little. So many shops stopped dealing with other countries, others do it but I've no idea how the tax collection works, I know that there is a lot of tax evasion going on with multinational companies selling things from one branch to another, "forgetting" the taxes.

As for the revenue side, in France VAT (now at 19,6%, soon 20%) gets more money in than income tax (you know, that tax that goes up to 75%).



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3011 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
No. Many people buy online because many items are ONLY available online - particularly 2nd hand items.

Yes, but I am also right.

For example, at my local Best Buy a Nikon D300s is $1699.99. On Amazon, it's only a four dollars cheaper BUT no sales tax. So buying online saves me $150, which justifies my decision for buying online.

Another example. Adobe Photoshop CS6 at Best Buy, $699. At Amazon, it is $568. Over $100 savings right there.

People buy online because it is cheaper, because there is no sales tax, because it is only available online, or a combination. In my experience, I buy online because it is cheaper and no sales tax.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3008 times:

I'm about as enthusiastic as sales taxing on Internet goods as I am about getting a colonoscopy! In addition to the higher costs, prices will rise due to the Internet sellers having to put up with different sales tax rates state per state. So this is an administrative cost and guess who gets to make up the difference besides getting screwed with the taxes. My state Maryland loves adding taxes and saying they will go to infrastructure improvement but in reality are stopgap measures to de fuster the cluck that is our deficit budget.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 41):
For example, at my local Best Buy a Nikon D300s is $1699.99. On Amazon, it's only a four dollars cheaper BUT no sales tax. So buying online saves me $150, which justifies my decision for buying online.


Kudos to Amazon and the buyer. The government needs to learn to stop spending so much much that they don't even generate. The consumer and private sector always win.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 41):
Another example. Adobe Photoshop CS6 at Best Buy, $699. At Amazon, it is $568. Over $100 savings right there.



You buy software?  Wow!
There are downloads and pirated copies but of course, I would never condone such.   

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 41):
In my experience, I buy online because it is cheaper and no sales tax.


In my experience, I buy online because I often have no choice. If I see a Led Zeppelin 8track tape selling on ebay for $5, I have no choice but to buy from that seller. It's not like I can drive down to Target and buy one. The taxes on that tape was paid when it was new back in 1971. I bought my 1977 Lincoln Town Car on ebay. I had no choice because it was the exact model and color I was looking for. It's not like I could go to the nearest Lincoln / Mercury dealer and order a 1977 model. The taxes was paid when the car was new and taxes continue to come in annually with yearly registration fees.
No need for an Internet tax. Don't give our out of control government any new ideas.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 42):
I'm about as enthusiastic as sales taxing on Internet goods as I am about getting a colonoscopy!


Not a good analogy. A colonoscopy is necessary. An online sales tax is not. In fact, many taxes aren't necessary.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 12):
If I lived in the U.S., near a state border, surely, if I crossed the state border and went to a brick-and-mortar shop to buy something, surely I'd be paying the tax in the location of said brick-and-mortar store, even if I took it home to the state next door?

You would pay the sales tax at the brick-and-mortar store, but at least in Oklahoma you might also owe use tax when you bring the item back into the state. Technically, if I cross state lines and purchase an item and then bring it back into the state to store it, use it, or consume it in some manner than I owe the state 4.5% of the purchase price.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 41):
For example, at my local Best Buy a Nikon D300s is $1699.99. On Amazon, it's only a four dollars cheaper BUT no sales tax. So buying online saves me $150, which justifies my decision for buying online.

Is there anything stopping your local BB from putting setting up a computer in the shop (or immediately outside the shop) with an order form ready to fill?

Order online, pick it up at the store only a minute later.


User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Quoting JJJ (Reply 45):
Is there anything stopping your local BB from putting setting up a computer in the shop (or immediately outside the shop) with an order form ready to fill?

Order online, pick it up at the store only a minute later.

No. You can even order from their website and do an in-store pickup a few minutes later. The issue is that BB has a physical "nexus" is the state so they are legally required to collect the tax. If I go to the state next door with no sales tax and buy an item at Best Buy for use in my state, I am legally obligated to declare it on my state income taxes and pay the Use Tax on it. Most people do not do this however, and this is why there is a push to get the merchant(s) to collect the tax.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):
Requiring online and mail order retailers to collect and forward sales taxes to the states where they are sent to leads to a costly nightmare.

States have proposed two solutions for online retailers in their attempts to get federal legislation passed to require that retailers collect and submit sales tax based upon the delivery address.

1) All online purchases are at the flat, base sales tax rate of the state of delivery, or
2) The state is responsible for maintaining a database retailers can access of sales tax rates for each zip code in the state.

The states will also be required to setup a system and bear the costs for online retailers to join in and make their sales tax payments online.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
I had no choice because it was the exact model and color I was looking for.

Of course you had a choice, nobody forced you to buy it, you made that decision.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 48):
Of course you had a choice, nobody forced you to buy it, you made that decision.



Had no choice in terms of where to buy it, genius.  
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 47):
2) The state is responsible for maintaining a database retailers can access of sales tax rates for each zip code in the state.



Would private sellers be exempt?
How about those that set up an online store of stuff from their basement?

I wish there was a movement towards cutting government spending instead of finding new ways to fleece the public.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinebongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 12):
I am not quite sure why a sales tax for an online purchase should be paid at the recipient's shipping address, instead of the retailer's HQ or warehouse of origin

The problem comes when states offer highly advantageous tax rates for businesses to relocate. You then run the risk of having a huge on line retailer domiciled in a small state, in order to take advantage of the low tax rate. The host state is very happy, but not the states losing out on revenue.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 15):
Tax collected should be from the location where the item was bought, not shipped to.

See above.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
No, it should not. It matters where the goods either 1) Are shipped from or.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money. The sales taxes, IMO, should go to the State where the company has their HQ base to support THAT State's economy.

We have a similar situation developing here in the UK, and Europe. Amazon Europe are officially domiciled in Luxembourg, the smallest fully functioning EU state, where they have less than 500 staff. Meanwhile the vast majority of customers are in Germany, the UK and France, as are the distribution warehouses with thousands of staff and millions of pounds of stock. Its an absoloutely blatant example of tax evasion. Though EU laws insist that sales taxes are paid according to the rate at the destination, all profits are taxed at the very low Luxembourg rate.

These sort of practices have always been around, but the internet age makes them so much easier to carry out.

This thread is about online retailers seeking out the best tax deals from the individual US states, in a way the US economy is still getting the revenue somewhere. Just bear in mind that the next step is to take the computer operation offshore to the carribbean or similar, then the US treasury will receive nothing. Amazon etc know how to do it as they have tested it out in Europe.


User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
In my experience, I buy online because I often have no choice. If I see a Led Zeppelin 8track tape selling on ebay for $5, I have no choice but to buy from that seller. It's not like I can drive down to Target and buy one. The taxes on that tape was paid when it was new back in 1971. I bought my 1977 Lincoln Town Car on ebay. I had no choice because it was the exact model and color I was looking for. It's not like I could go to the nearest Lincoln / Mercury dealer and order a 1977 model. The taxes was paid when the car was new and taxes continue to come in annually with yearly registration fees.
No need for an Internet tax. Don't give our out of control government any new ideas.

I understand. I've done that on eBay. However, I've never had to pay the tax and I shouldn't have to because tax was already paid when the item was bought new.

I have seen on eBay used items required you pay sales tax if you live in that state they were located in. I think that is wrong because sales tax has already be paid on it. Maybe since it is an actual business selling it, they are required to pay sales tax. But I still think it is wrong paying sales tax on second hand or used items.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 49):
Had no choice in terms of where to buy it, genius.

Not everyone sells clunkers on the net, you might have found one in a breakers yard, under a tarp in someones back yard or in a barn. You always have a choice.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2877 times:

Back in 2010 when I visited my mother, I bought a lot of stuff in Oregon that totaled to about $200. Brought it back to Colorado and never paid the Colorado sales tax on it, there is really no need to because I bought it in Oregon, not Colorado. The beauty of no sales tax in Oregon is just that: no sales tax. It makes things cheaper and easier to get.

Also, when one goes out to eat at a restaurant in Portland, OR.... how do you assess the taxes for a out of State visitor?? LOL!

Some of you may think I now owe Colorado for the stuff I bought, but I disagree. My logic still stands no matter how screwed up it may sound: Sales tax should be collected at the point of origin for THAT economy, not the destination.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Some of you may think I now owe Colorado for the stuff I bought

You don't owe Colorado jack!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Sales tax should be collected at the point of origin for THAT economy,

  

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 51):
I have seen on eBay used items required you pay sales tax if you live in that state they were located in.

Wow! Luckily I haven't seen that.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

No...Unless we changed the Tax code to the "Fair Tax" and made everything a straight sales consumption tax. Other wise keep their money grubbing hand's off e commerce.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
No, it should not. It matters where the goods either 1) Are shipped from or.... 2) The state where the HQ is collecting the money. The sales taxes, IMO, should go to the State where the company has their HQ base to support THAT State's economy.

In the case of Amazon.com, I wouldn't want to be taxed by the company's HQ. Washington state has no income tax so in order to make up the revenue, Seattle has one of the higest sales tax rates in the country (9.5%)! I could see Amazon really hurting if they put a 9.5% tax on every transaction.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 56):
Washington state has no income tax

That is about to change, or so I'm told. Who knows. Washington State is one of the very few States that don't have income tax.

But I now live in Colorado, and we have income tax. Yet, the State Sales Taxes are still high! (8.9%, IIRC).



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Please ignore...delete please.

[Edited 2013-01-16 12:34:46]


All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Also, when one goes out to eat at a restaurant in Portland, OR.... how do you assess the taxes for a out of State visitor?? LOL!

In that case you wouldn't owe a use tax because the product (a meal) was consumed in Oregon.


User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 56):
I could see Amazon really hurting if they put a 9.5% tax on every transaction.

Well then they should move. Simple as that. This is where states can be competitive and drive industries (jobs) to their state. Lower the tax rate, online companies flock to you, you get all kinds of companies, jobs, etc flowing in. THAT IS HOW CAPITALISM is played by states. If Washington State wants to keep Amazon, they would lower the sales tax rate, a boom for all residents of the state. See how that works?



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

My short answer is "yes". How else will communities be able to keep up the roads etc required to get the goods to the recipient?
In general I believe the online retail should have as level a playing field as the other vendors in the community.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 61):
How else will communities be able to keep up the roads etc required to get the goods to the recipient?

Tax the shipping companies for road tax? Out here, any vehicle over 3,5 tonnes (minus reasonable exceptions such as firetrucks etc.) pays a tax on every km of highway used, this money goes to maintenance.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlineLFutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3339 posts, RR: 27
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 56):
Seattle has one of the higest sales tax rates in the country (9.5%)! I could see Amazon really hurting if they put a 9.5% tax on every transaction.

Here in Illinois, my county -- Cook County once had the HIGHEST sales tax in the nation stating at 10,25% in the City of Chicago. as of now, suburbs in Cook County range from 9% to 9,25% and the city now at 9,25%.

We are taxed on everything really. Clothes - 9% Soda - 9% prescriptions and food items - 2,25% Luckily for me big ticket items, I go to the next county north of me Lake County and pay 7,5%. Everywhere else in Illinois has a much lower sales tax. Quite sad really.

I dont think Amazon.com taxes us just yet. But im sure it is coming as this state is so broke.

Leo/ORD



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 59):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 53):
Also, when one goes out to eat at a restaurant in Portland, OR.... how do you assess the taxes for a out of State visitor?? LOL!

In that case you wouldn't owe a use tax because the product (a meal) was consumed in Oregon.

That's exactly my point! The taxes should be assessed in the State of the point of origin regardless of what the product was.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2732 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 64):
That's exactly my point! The taxes should be assessed in the State of the point of origin regardless of what the product was.

And those taxes goes to the state of the sale? I might just be able to support that as it would decrease the "vampire" aspect where states may create low tax incentives to lure companies while using sales from elsewhere to support a retailer and then benefit from the taxes form consumers of other states.

Remember they are called "sales taxes" for a reason, so they should go to the point of the sale, where the region has created a vibrant enough economy that the citizens there can afford the products being sold. You really should reward those great areas that create these great consumers, shouldn't you?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2725 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 61):

Legalize prostitution. This way when she climaxes the state will have an ample wads of cash (fumds) to shoot their load for other programs.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 66):
Legalize prostitution.

Agreed, it should be legalized and regulated. Of course if it comes via an online transaction, which sates gets the tax? The state where the storefront is located or where the act takes place? Hmm?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 67):
and regulated


Why?

San Francisco tried that and the hookers all got fat and no one wanted to hire them anymore.
I can't think of any new laws that would be required if prostitution were legalized. There are already laws on the books against rape and involving minors, therefore I see no need for any new laws.

Quoting tugger (Reply 67):
The state where the storefront is located or where the act takes place? Hmm?


You're focusing too much on Amazon. Many sellers online are private sellers. It's basically a yard sale online. Re-read my earlier post.
Should we send the taxman to every yard sale?
Should we encourage private citizens to rat-out their neighbor for selling a treadmill or old pair of speakers at a cheap price?
New York has just passed a law to encourage people to rat-out their neighbors for private property.....



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

I purchase stuff on Amazon, it is much cheaper than buying stuff locally in New Zealand and of course being an international purchase it is VAT exempt, I do not mind paying the local tax if I am over the tax exempt value either, it still means I save money over what the local businesses charge (in a small market like NZ they mark up far more than a mass market like USA/EU)

I also choose to buy from other states when I am getting stuff delivered in USA (eg: buying in NYC having delivered in LAX)
Personally I think online shopping should be exempt from orders interstate


User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
Many sellers online are private sellers. It's basically a yard sale online. Re-read my earlier post.

I thought it was pretty obvious that private sale of used items should not be taxed?



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
Why?

Health.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
You're focusing too much on Amazon.

I haven't said one word about Amazon or any online retailer. However, as you are noting, if we do look at and separate the two types of business then I would not be objectionable to two distinct category's of online retailers: Large and Small. The bulk of online sales dollars are done through large online retailers, and then there are the home operation/small businesses that fill in all the niche sales. These small business are less likely to move to a state to take advantage of certain tax elements. These small business tend to live where most people live and want to live.

My question still stands though: Why should one state reap the sales tax benefits of another state that creates a good consumer base? The state that has a good and vibrant consumer population deserves to benefit from their citizens just as the citizens have benefited from the state (or they wouldn't live there).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 65):
And those taxes goes to the state of the sale?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.... Taxes to either the Sate it was shipped from or taxes to the State that said company is HQ'd in. It gets the States to compete for business, and the customer wins.

Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 73, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 72):

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.... Taxes to either the Sate it was shipped from or taxes to the State that said company is HQ'd in. It gets the States to compete for business, and the customer wins.

Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.

So you do not think that states that create a good and desirable living location for their citizens and create a good consumer base deserve anything for that? You think that other states deserve the tax money of another states residents?

Why do you support that? And why would you support impacting states that do not have income taxes and instead rely on sales and other revenue sources?

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-17 09:25:36]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 60):
Well then they should move. Simple as that. This is where states can be competitive and drive industries (jobs) to their state. Lower the tax rate, online companies flock to you, you get all kinds of companies, jobs, etc flowing in. THAT IS HOW CAPITALISM is played by states. If Washington State wants to keep Amazon, they would lower the sales tax rate, a boom for all residents of the state. See how that works?

That's an overly simplistic, black & white answer to where businesses locate themselves. If we extend your logic that businesses only care about low taxes, then all our jobs would be someplace with near 0 taxes...like the Cayman Islands.

The reality is that businesses consider a whole host of factors when putting down offices and factories. I think one huge factor is the labor pool. Can I get a simliar labor pool with the talent I need in Seattle, low cost Texas, or even lower cost China? Consider the fact that some of America's most dynamic and innovative companies (Apple and Google) have the vast majority of their US operations based in the Bay Area, which has one of the highest cost of living and tax rates in the country. The Bay Area has the type of talent those companies need to thrive and the talent is harder to find elsewhere. Or New York City has the largest number of corporate HQs in the US over any other city by far...even though NYC has the highest tax burden in this country. That's because NYC has the right educated labor pool, support services, international connections, etc that make it attractive to corporate HQs.

Yes, businesses do like low cost, but there are so many other factors to how they locate jobs. Low taxes are not a panacea to all that's wrong in our economy.

[Edited 2013-01-17 11:24:03]


All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 75, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2639 times:

By the way I forgot to address this:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 72):
Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.

Consumers, state citizens, are actually required by law to pay the in state sales taxes for any product they buy and have transported to their state (home). The most commonly known one of these is cars, you may buy it elsewhere but when you register it in your state you pay the required taxes etc. Most every state requires this, your state too probably, but no one does it really (except for big purchases sometimes that will likely be known to the state already). We've all just been skating on past it with a wink and a nod.

Sales taxes are paid by the buyer, not the business, that is why businesses show pricing without the tax included. The businesses only collect it and send it on to the state as it is the most efficient way to do it.

I guess that online retailers could just be required to send a matching invoice (or some document noting delivered value) to the states for their records for their calculation for what taxes you owe, but that just seems ridiculous and the current systems is much simpler as it does not connect people personally to their purchase.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 76, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 74):
like the Cayman Islands.

Umm? Ever ship from the Cayman Islands? I'm betting it's a little more costly... How about China? Buy things with free shipping from China and it takes 15-20 days. Want it in a day or two? Yea.. go price that...

That alone will keep things in the USA.

If Apple had to charge taxes on everything it sold online based on Bay Area taxes they would move in a second.

Google the same... And what do they sell? Oh, that's right, the vast majority of their business is advertising on free internet searches....

And you might not believe it, but companies are moving away from NYC because of the taxes. Not in large quantities, yet, but look at the states like TX, TN, and others where they are getting an influx of companies. Why? One word. Low taxes.

Oh, and one other thing, smart people, whom you call the "right educated labor pool," will move where the jobs are.

Simplistic or not, it works.

Sorry you don't see it.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 75):
I guess that online retailers could just be required to send a matching invoice (or some document noting delivered value) to the states for their records for their calculation for what taxes you owe, but that just seems ridiculous and the current systems is much simpler as it does not connect people personally to their purchase.


But Kansas or whatever has no jurisdiction to tell Amazon (in another state) to send them an invoice. Kansas also can't place limits on you placing orders from a business in other state AFAIK. Interstate commerce is above the jurisdiction of states AFAIK; not a lawyer.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 76):
Buy things with free shipping from China and it takes 15-20 days. Want it in a day or two? Yea.. go price that...

Speaking of that, really am interested: are these China sellers effectively skating around US postage? I fail to see how a 3 dollar item with free shipping can get all the way to my USA door from China. Does not make sense. But Amazon is seeing a ton of that now. Is this a genius way to beat the system?


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 79, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2560 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 78):
I fail to see how a 3 dollar item with free shipping can get all the way to my USA door from China. Does not make sense.

No, it's just that the $3 item and many other items are being shipped over in containers that have room and that were priced out at a flat rate. It you're already paying the rate, why not fill the container and ship your novelty plastic poop over with your iPads?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2542 times:

Quoting Fabo (Reply 70):
I thought it was pretty obvious that private sale of used items should not be taxed?

Doesn't sound like it based on some of the replies. Seems like some members here are happy with as many new taxes as possible.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 76):
If Apple had to charge taxes on everything it sold online based on Bay Area taxes they would move in a second.

True but they wouldn't be seen as 'hip' and 'cool' anymore.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 79):
and ship your novelty plastic poop over with your iPads?

  
China is making more important items than plastic poop today. Perhaps the US needs to start making plastic poop like China because our government keeps borrowing money from China.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2535 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 77):
But Kansas or whatever has no jurisdiction to tell Amazon (in another state) to send them an invoice. Kansas also can't place limits on you placing orders from a business in other state AFAIK. Interstate commerce is above the jurisdiction of states AFAIK; not a lawyer.

I understand what you are saying yet, to use Amazon as the example, many states where Amazon is not based got Amazon to agree to collect that tax. There is something that allows states to get these companies to do this.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 80):
Doesn't sound like it based on some of the replies. Seems like some members here are happy with as many new taxes as possible.

Is that what you see? I see people understanding that the taxes do serve a purpose and are at reasonable or they would not have voted for them, people that are used to paying sales tax, and people understanding the inequity that occurs against the businesses in their own communities. This is taxation with representation as people vote the taxes they pay in their communities and that is all this would provide.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19699 posts, RR: 58
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days ago) and read 2530 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 35):

Requiring online and mail order retailers to collect and forward sales taxes to the states where they are sent to leads to a costly nightmare.

Hardly. It can be taken care of with a small piece of software and handled automatically for every purchase based on the shipping address.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 82):

Hardly. It can be taken care of with a small piece of software and handled automatically for every purchase based on the shipping address.

You can shift that burden on to the buyer. The seller just has to add some kind of form stating the value, and have the buyer pay tax on arrival.

USPS or the different Fedex/UPS/etc. could collect it for the government for a fee.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9376 posts, RR: 29
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Very simple. Get VAT.

Companies with a tax number do not pay VAT online in Europe, individuals do pay heir local VAT rate with the purchase of the goods. Very simle and clean.

If items are bought online from third countries, the express carrier will do the customs clearance and collect the duty/vat on delivery.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 81):
I see people understanding that the taxes do serve a purpose

Well of course we aunderstand the purpose for taxes but the government get's plenty already. No need to introduce new taxes.

Quoting tugger (Reply 81):
would not have voted for them

???
We're not talking an election.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 72):
Taxes at the destination address is just plain stupid. It makes no sense.

The physical transaction occurs upon delivery, not upon submitting the order or shipping.

Sales tax is based upon the physical transfer of ownership of the item.

Again, why do you seem to believe that handing a credit card to a merchant and receiving a product is different from giving a credit card number to a merchant online and receiving a product?


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 85):
Well of course we aunderstand the purpose for taxes but the government get's plenty already. No need to introduce new taxes.

Look, I am fine with not increasing taxes in general (though I realize it cannot be a fixed thing like the mantra "no new taxes"). I did not vote for a single one of the CA taxes that were on the last ballot, the state does not need "more". But this is not "introducing a new tax". It is keeping up with the changes in retail and keeping things current to keep up current levels of local funding. Remember this is not federal taxes (though the Congress will likely have to "allow" it due to the interstate commerce clause), this is far more local, and as online sales grow the local funding will become more and more impacted and local business will suffer more and more. And that is just not right.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 85):
???We're not talking an election.

Yes we are. The local citizens are either electing the people that are instituting the taxes or more often they are voting for the taxes themselves.

I personally support requiring sales tax calculation down toe the county level (versus either just the state level or city/township/whatever level). And to those that cry "That's too hard!" or "It puts too much of a burden on the poor online retailer...", do you want to see just how easy it is: http://www.thestc.com/. Or: http://www.taxrates.com/ There are numerous programs and services and ways to do this, it is just not that overwhelmingly hard to do. The great thing is that new businesses will spring up or existing businesses will expand to help the online retailer. It's the American way, more business!

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-18 07:55:11]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 87):
It is keeping up with the changes in retail and keeping things current to keep up current levels of local funding.


Spoken like a politician. Sounds like you have a future in elected office.

Quoting tugger (Reply 87):
Yes we are.


No we're not.
We're talking about an online sales tax.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 87):
Yes we are. The local citizens are either electing the people that are instituting the taxes or more often they are voting for the taxes themselves.

You do have a point. In my county, a couple years ago we voted for a 25 cent tax increase on wheel tax to build a new high school. But as Superfly said, we are talking about online sales tax, and we don't vote for that (as far as I know anyway).


User currently offlineN801NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 744 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

I think we are talking about a change in the method of collection of an existing tax. My state's Sales & Use Tax requires merchants to collect the 5% sales tax at the point of sale. If I buy an item from Amazon.com or any store in the sales tax free state next to me I am legally required to report that purchase on my state 1040 for that year. Over $5000, it must be paid quarterly. In reality, there is little individual compliance with these laws. That is why most governments and brick-and-mortar retailers want online sellers to collect the existing tax.

User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days ago) and read 2430 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 88):
Spoken like a politician. Sounds like you have a future in elected office.

How is a tax for online orders different from taxes on mail-order or telephone purchases? They are based on where the recipient lives. The recipient's community receive the funds. These have been around for decades. This is the law catching up to technology.

Why are e-retailers given a pass?



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 92, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days ago) and read 2426 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 88):
Spoken like a politician. Sounds like you have a future in elected office.

Not possible, what I am saying is true.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 88):
No we're not.
We're talking about an online sales tax.

Yes, and you are not making the obvious and important connection. Yes we are talking about applying sales taxes to online sales. But you are missing that sales taxes are local taxes that support the community and states. The taxes that exist all were voted into existence because of a need and are reduced as online sales increase. And then as online sales continue to increase the burden falls more and more onto the lower local sales, which means either increasing the taxes on the lower sales base to maintain the needed revenue, or reduced local services and impacts to the community which in turn will impact business and the people living in the community.

By the way, I thought you liked the idea of states that do not tax income. Advocating to not apply sales taxes to online sales will most certainly impact states that do not have an income tax as online sales continue to increase.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 89):
You do have a point. In my county, a couple years ago we voted for a 25 cent tax increase on wheel tax to build a new high school. But as Superfly said, we are talking about online sales tax, and we don't vote for that (as far as I know anyway).

As I note above, it is one and the same essentially. In the past you would likely buy want you locally and a sales taxes would be paid, now there is the as easy option of buying online. We are talking about sales tax the community or state would otherwise have received for the transaction. Having these taxes apply to the online transaction is just keeping things current, it is not adding a new tax and singling out online sales unfairly.

Quoting N801NW (Reply 90):
I think we are talking about a change in the method of collection of an existing tax. My state's Sales & Use Tax requires merchants to collect the 5% sales tax at the point of sale. If I buy an item from Amazon.com or any store in the sales tax free state next to me I am legally required to report that purchase on my state 1040 for that year. Over $5000, it must be paid quarterly. In reality, there is little individual compliance with these laws. That is why most governments and brick-and-mortar retailers want online sellers to collect the existing tax.

  

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 93, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 92):
you are not making the obvious and important connection.



Yes I have. We all know the purpose of taxes. Government doesn't know how to spend out tax dollars wisely so why give them more access to tax more?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 94, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 93):
Yes I have. We all know the purpose of taxes. Government doesn't know how to spend out tax dollars wisely so why give them more access to tax more?

The question at hand is - Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax. It isn't - do you agree with with how the money is spent.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 86):
The physical transaction occurs upon delivery, not upon submitting the order or shipping.

The payment is made before the physical transaction take place, funds are actually removed from your account at purchase.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 86):
Sales tax is based upon the physical transfer of ownership of the item.

Except as above, online payment is made first, is purchase on layaway at the store equivalent, or do they require you to pay installments?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 86):
Again, why do you seem to believe that handing a credit card to a merchant and receiving a product is different from giving a credit card number to a merchant online and receiving a product?

The difference is that you walk away with the product, online you have to sit and wait for delivery. Your money is already contributing to the bottom line of the business while you have not yet received any tangible benefit from the transaction.

States are struggling with this for a few years, unfortunately, unless they come up with a solution equitable to them all, the feds will step in and collect all the online taxes. Tugg has mentioned some states creating a business environment friendly to customer purchases, are they to be penalized for other states choosing to go another way in their method of paying for their services?

Other items to note, what about taxes where the goods are actually manufactured, delivery taxes paid by the infrastructure of shipping, taxes on the raw materials different from the finished product, would be interesting to see how many entities got a piece of the pie of the finished product when it actually gets to your door.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 95):
The payment is made before the physical transaction take place, funds are actually removed from your account at purchase.
Quoting par13del (Reply 95):
The difference is that you walk away with the product, online you have to sit and wait for delivery.

You've never bought furniture or large appliances?

Same thing.

You give them your credit card and you sit and wait for delivery - sometimes months.

Online sales are not different than the 100+ years of mail order this nation practiced before the internet was stolen from the US military by Al Gore and his friends in the Senate and given to the civilians.

Sears, Montgomery Ward, Spiegel and others collected sales tax based on delivery location for decades. And some small mail order retailers did not.

The only difference today is you don't have to physically mail the order form to the seller.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 97, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 94):
The question at hand is - Do You Agree With Online Sales Tax. It isn't - do you agree with with how the money is spent.


....and many disagree with a new tax because of the way government spends tax dollars they already collect.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 98, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 97):
...and many disagree with a new tax because of the way government spends tax dollars they already collect.

... which is a different issue. But why be part of the solution when you can be part of the problem...


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 99, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 93):
Yes I have. We all know the purpose of taxes. Government doesn't know how to spend out tax dollars wisely so why give them more access to tax more?

Do you think the USA would have become the nation it is without taxes? Yes taxes are not a "all good" thing, yes they can be misspent, but especially at the local level they perform and vital and critical function in the community.

By the way you never answered my question:

Quoting tugger (Reply 92):
I thought you liked the idea of states that do not tax income. Advocating to not apply sales taxes to online sales will most certainly impact states that do not have an income tax as online sales continue to increase.
Quoting par13del (Reply 95):
The payment is made before the physical transaction take place, funds are actually removed from your account at purchase.

That is the normal case for almost all sales in general. Even at the store you hand over your cash before you walk away with the merchandise.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 97):
....and many disagree with a new tax because of the way government spends tax dollars they already collect.

As do I, however we are not talking about a new tax. "Sales tax" is not new, it is just that "online sales" is a new form of sales and the time has come, the industry has matured sufficiently, that they should be on the same basis as all retailers. Why is every other form of retail required to collect the tax but not "online", what makes it so different from catalog sales or TV/telephone sales? The only difference is that nowadays they are vastly more capable and useable and will disrupt the local retail business community in a far greater way, harming jobs of the communities people live in and reducing the ability of the community to survive.

The position you are taking simply does not make sense.

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-19 10:57:25]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 100, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 99):
By the way you never answered my question:

Quoting tugger (Reply 92):
I thought you liked the idea of states that do not tax income. Advocating to not apply sales taxes to online sales will most certainly impact states that do not have an income tax as online sales continue to increase.



The looks like a statement, not a question.

Quoting tugger (Reply 99):
we are not talking about a new tax. "Sales tax" is not new, it is just that "online sales" is a new form of sales


Spoken like a true politician.

Quoting tugger (Reply 99):
The position you are taking simply does not make sense.


Of course it doesn't makes sense to you. You want the government to get as much money as possible from the people.
The Internet is a fertile ground for hundreds of thousands of small businesses that would struggle in a traditional marketplace. Most are operating on minimal budgets as it is. It is not even clear where the tax money should properly go, or who the proper beneficiaries should be. Therefore, I am for exempting Internet sales from taxes.
Forcing businesses, especially small businesses, to collect and remit sale tax across thousands of taxing districts would be a huge burden, and likely drive smaller merchants out of business. Additionally, the tax laws that would have to be put into place would be overcomplicated, simply due to the fact that the majority of Internet sales cross multiple taxing districts. Taxes are a burden on business, even when it is a tax that is being charged to the consumer and not the business. In order to maintain compliance on taxation, companies would have to increase their costs in order to cover this discrepancy, which would basically eliminate their ability to compete against brick and mortar companies. Also when you buy something on the Internet there is no brick and mortar store. No particular state should benefit from your purchase, because that would not be fair. Also, having no tax on the Internet helps to keep people buying things, and it helps small businesses to start up online and save money; this helps the overall economy.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 101, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
I am for exempting Internet sales from taxes.

Okay - you are for a NEW tax EXEMPTION.

Thus, enforcement of current tax laws in an unequal and unfair method.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
The Internet is a fertile ground for hundreds of thousands of small businesses that would struggle in a traditional marketplace.

Frankly, states are not really concerned with those types of businesses. Yes, they would like them to comply with the laws just as a mom and pop startup store does in their state, but the states recognize the issues of scale, distance and computing local tax rates for a small startup.

That is why the vast majority of states support the two proposed systems I mentioned to make it easy for small startups to comply with local sales and use tax laws.

But we are really not talking about small startups in this thread.

It is huge mega-corporations like Amazon, Nike and others which use both their massive scale of buying power, and avoidance of state sales and use taxes to give them a huge economic advantage over the small businesses within the state.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 102, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
The looks like a statement, not a question.
OK, then posed as a question, what are your thoughts?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
Spoken like a true politician.

If that is true, then your words are just as much those of a politician. OK, so where does that get us?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
Of course it doesn't makes sense to you. You want the government to get as much money as possible from the people.

And you put words in my mouth why? I am very surprised as you have apparently not read and comprehended what is being said, and that is sad. I have always thought of you as an intelligent member. It is disappointing if this is the case as I have found you to be very good with enjoyable posts. Please go back and read what I have posted and reconsider your words, I know you can do better.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
The Internet is a fertile ground for hundreds of thousands of small businesses that would struggle in a traditional marketplace. Most are operating on minimal budgets as it is.

I already addressed this when I said I am fine with having a delineation between those small businesses and large businesses having to pay taxes. I can understand what you are saying and would support having a dollar level threshold under which the business would not have to submit or collect the taxes. With that said, I still do not think it is overwhelmingly difficult as there in almost no small business that deals with all the thousands of localities within the USA, and there are numerous tools already online ready to help any business large or small with the issue.

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-19 11:27:52]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 103, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2318 times:

I can remember some years back (when internet sales was just developing) one of the conservative commentators saying how critical is was to protect this emerging new industry and that they shouldn't be taxed at that time.

Today the story is different - it is the bricks & mortar retailer that is at risk and they need protection from the internet retailer. Looking at the major differences between the two is pretty simple. The bricks & mortar folks have to have a designed location that tracts customers. Internet retailers are in the cheapest locations they can find. Stores have to be in a reachable location - which has a high rent - and property taxes. Retailers are also limited in their customer base where internet stores can get international reach.

With all the differences these days it is hard to find a justification to continue policies that are hurting the bricks & mortar guys. We need to rebalance the two markets.

As far as taxes themselves, a lot of cities use sales taxes to support bond issues. Reductions in those taxes lowers the financial health of the communities.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 104, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
As far as taxes themselves, a lot of cities use sales taxes to support bond issues. Reductions in those taxes lowers the financial health of the communities.

That is the thing I don't get with some of the "tax" objections, sales taxes are among the most local of taxes and do more good work locally than other taxes and are critical to local communities. And the people that pay these taxes are the people that voted to have them put in place. It is not like anyone (say.... you) is forced to pay taxes their communities didn't want.

Oh and looky here:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...tate-income-tax-lauded-criticized/

Quote:

Several Republican governors are proposing an end to their state income taxes in exchange for closing loopholes including mortgage deductions -- plans to make their states more competitive in the U.S. economy
[...]
Chris Edwards, director of tax policy studies at libertarian-leaning Cato Institute said Saturday that he supports the idea of states going to one major tax -- either income or sales.

I guarantee you that they cannot do that without sales tax being part of the tax base.

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-19 20:07:39]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 105, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day ago) and read 2281 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 102):



What we have here is a difference of opinion. Simple as that and just because someone's opinion is different than yours doesn't mean that they're less "intelligent" nor should you be disappointed because someone doesn't agree with you. For some people, 'tax' is a 4 letter word. We've all seen corruption and mis-management of tax revenue at the federal, state, county and city level and many people simple do not like to idea of adding new taxes or expanding existing taxes for those that like to argue over semantics.
I've already stated my reasons against an online sales tax.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 106, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day ago) and read 2280 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 105):
What we have here is a difference of opinion. Simple as that and just because someone's opinion is different than yours doesn't mean that they're less "intelligent" nor should you be disappointed because someone doesn't agree with you.

My disappointment had nothing to do with the difference in opinion we have. I know quite well that you and I have differences in opinion on many things (like cars, and about women, and the USA), and that is fine. My disapointment had to do with you putting words in my mouth that I never spoke and never even advocated the idea behind what you implied was how I think:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):
You want the government to get as much money as possible from the people.

And you still apparently don't see it, I have never said that and I certainly have not communicated any idea like that in my posts. And I don't like it when people try to put words in my mouth and even less so when its someone that I regard well, so "I am disappoint".

Tugg

[Edited 2013-01-19 23:05:08]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 107, posted (1 year 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 106):
My disapointment had to do with you putting words in my mouth that I never spoke and never even advocated the idea behind what you implied was how I think:
Quoting tugger (Reply 106):
so "I am disappoint".



Aw come on, let's be friends again.  

I interpreted any sort of new (expansion of) tax for online purchases as advocating more revenue to the government. Sorry if my choice of words made it seem like I was putting words in your mouth.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 108, posted (1 year 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 107):
advocating more revenue to the government.

It is acutally not.

It is an attempt to recover lost revenue for the billions of dollars in sales taxes no longer being collected across the states. As huge mega-corporations are undercutting local retailers by refusing to collect sales taxes on the hundreds of billions of dollars of online sales - the revenue coming in to the local and state governments has declined in many places.

This is an attempt to restore the cuts in services to the people which have had to be made because of the decline in sales tax collections.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 109, posted (1 year 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 104):
And the people that pay these taxes are the people that voted to have them put in place.

Actually I have voted for more taxes most often when it is related to sales taxes - with property taxes coming in 2nd.

Quoting tugger (Reply 106):
I know quite well that you and I have differences in opinion on many things (like cars, and about women, and the USA), and that is fine.

As soon as you mentioned cars & women I knew you were talking about Superfly.   

Quoting Superfly (Reply 107):
Aw come on, let's be friends again.



I think first we'll need a vigorous review of the women issue . . .


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 110, posted (1 year 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
Reductions in those taxes lowers the financial health of the communities.

If they are not replaced, or if the cost of existing services is not reduced or if services are lowered, there are always other factors involved.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 108):
It is an attempt to recover lost revenue for the billions of dollars in sales taxes no longer being collected across the states.

As above there are also other issues involved, in some instances the cost of living is lowered for citizens when those brick and mortar stores are closed for failing to compete, some jobs are replaced by wharehouses used to maintain online inventories, etc. rental income goes down, property taxes can also go down. It should also be noted that population sprawl out from the inner cities have resulted in more malls where local brick and mortar stores now fight for customers of convenience, it has also created a new era of inner city redevelopment.

Yes business now goes out of state including a lot of the profits, but it is not simply saying we need to recoup all the funds lost in sales revenue as the citizens who are loosing in one area also gain in others. Each state is not able to produce all the products and services they require, trade between the states is required / needed, the internet also allows individuals to serve and cater to a much wider audience, unfortunately, the politicians are the last ones to look at the new technology and see how they fit in and can work with the emerging industries.

One thing to note is that in a lot of cases, the savings being passed on to consumers is as a result of lower taxes not just lower cost of obtaining products by the sellers.


User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1572 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 2227 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Surely everything bought online is either with a debit or credit card which requires a billing address therefore you should apply taxes of that location.

Fred


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 112, posted (1 year 8 months 8 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 110):
there are always other factors involved.

Such as not needing to cut funding to the police department if you cut it from the fire department.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 111):
Surely everything bought online is either with a debit or credit card which requires a billing address therefore you should apply taxes of that location.

The easiest approach is to have one tax level (probably 10%) with payments made weekly to the federal government. The federal government would then pay the various levels (state, county, city, school district, etc.) on a weekly basis. It really isn't that hard - you set up the various rates down to the ZIP Code and a computer program splits the money, holds it for the weekly distribution and then electronically sends the funds. Excess funds go to finance the system and other activities.

The biggest kicker is, of course, fraud - a traditional sport when dealing with the federal government. One of the "other activities" would be to pull data from the credit card companies and have those failing to make their payments on time quickly displayed. Rapid response is the best way to identify the problems.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 113, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 112):
The easiest approach is to have one tax level (probably 10%) with payments made weekly to the federal government. The federal government would then pay the various levels (state, county, city, school district, etc.) on a weekly basis.

One tax level is fine, however, in this day and age of electronics there is no reason for the states to funnel all taxes to the feds, you would be building an inefficient system.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 112):
Such as not needing to cut funding to the police department if you cut it from the fire department.

It is amazing that whenever states loose money for any reason from natural disasters to mismanagement to business leaving for greener pastures, the first item to be cut is fire and polic services, almost makes on believe that the only services they provide is police fire and occasionally education.
Does make you wonder where the feds got the idea of the terror alerts and keeping the nation on edge when it comes to terrorism.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 114, posted (1 year 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 113):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 112):The easiest approach is to have one tax level (probably 10%) with payments made weekly to the federal government. The federal government would then pay the various levels (state, county, city, school district, etc.) on a weekly basis.

One tax level is fine, however, in this day and age of electronics there is no reason for the states to funnel all taxes to the feds, you would be building an inefficient system.

The states have proposed two systems as part of federal legislation they are trying to get passed to required collection and payment of sales taxes for all US sales.

The states will bear the responsibility and costs to develop a system where any vendor can obtain an identification number, have access to a database of sale tax rates, and a collection and disbursement system.

The two systems are a simpler system where sales taxes are collected at the basic state rate, or eventually a more in-depth system where the taxes are based upon the zip code. Each individual state would bear responsibility for updating their zip code based database.

The proposed system will provide the Internet seller with protection against charges of applying the wrong tax rate. If there is an error in the database - it is the states responsibility to find and correct. There will not be retroactive recalculations.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 115, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 107):
Aw come on, let's be friends again.

Well hell, of course! This is A.net after all. "D

Quoting Superfly (Reply 107):
I interpreted any sort of new (expansion of) tax for online purchases as advocating more revenue to the government. Sorry if my choice of words made it seem like I was putting words in your mouth.

I gotcha. And please don't take my support for some taxes as being a blanket support for all taxes. Sure we differ on this and you are allowed your opinion, but of course I'm right..... 
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 109):
I think first we'll need a vigorous review of the women issue . . .

Oh sure, lets try a Hobson's choice: Supe' which would you rather, marriage or sales tax?  
Quoting par13del (Reply 110):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
Reductions in those taxes lowers the financial health of the communities.

If they are not replaced, or if the cost of existing services is not reduced or if services are lowered, there are always other factors involved.
Quoting par13del (Reply 110):
One thing to note is that in a lot of cases, the savings being passed on to consumers is as a result of lower taxes not just lower cost of obtaining products by the sellers.

Which is where that savings is the most false and damaging to local business.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 111):
Surely everything bought online is either with a debit or credit card which requires a billing address therefore you should apply taxes of that location.

It would be interesting if the card companies offered a service to take care of these tax issues for business. I could see a slid business case for it.

Quoting par13del (Reply 113):
It is amazing that whenever states loose money for any reason from natural disasters to mismanagement to business leaving for greener pastures, the first item to be cut is fire and polic services, almost makes on believe that the only services they provide is police fire and occasionally education.

I'm sure you know this but it is done like that because if they can sell it, those are the things the public is most willing to pay for and in turn suffer higher taxes to support. We have gone through so many of those threats where I live that thankfully the public ignores it now and has rejected each recent attempt at increasing taxes.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 114):
The proposed system will provide the Internet seller with protection against charges of applying the wrong tax rate. If there is an error in the database - it is the states responsibility to find and correct. There will not be retroactive recalculations.

Well sort of, I suspect that if the calculation is too high then the overcharge will be returned.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 116, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2154 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 112):
The biggest kicker is, of course, fraud - a traditional sport when dealing with the federal government. One of the "other activities" would be to pull data from the credit card companies and have those failing to make their payments on time quickly displayed. Rapid response is the best way to identify the problems.

All states that have a sales tax have a more-or-less matching use-tax that applies if you buy via mail/telephone/internet/whatever from a vendor that does not collect sales tax for your state.

IOW, given that the vast majority of people are *not* paying their use tax, tax fraud is being committed by the vast majority of people buying things over the internet (or by phone, mail, etc.) where use tax is owed. Surely it can't get any worse than that.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 117, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 116):
IOW, given that the vast majority of people are *not* paying their use tax, tax fraud is being committed by the vast majority of people buying things over the internet (or by phone, mail, etc.) where use tax is owed. Surely it can't get any worse than that.

So an honest question, if the state where the internet business is domiciled do not have a tax mechanism for online sales, the state where the consumer lives does not have a mechanism for online sales tax collection, the consumer is committing fraud by not paying something that is not defined and demanded?

Fraud is a crime, citizens engaged in it are punished to the full extent of the law, unfortunately those who created and defined the law chose not to apply it to those who promised something at the ballot box and delivered something totally different when elected.

The internet has been around since politician invented it, online sales started a few decades ago, yet state politicians are still fighting among themselves trying to figure how to benefit from it and the only ones committing fraud are the masses.
Bummer.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 118, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 117):
the state where the consumer lives does not have a mechanism for online sales tax collection

Is there a state that does not have it?


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 119, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 118):
Is there a state that does not have it?

Based on the number items I have purchased from site like Amazon and some inlude sales tax and other do not yes, there are some state that are not charging sales tax for online sales, so if a customer is not paying it how can they be committing fraud?


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 120, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 114):
The states have proposed two systems as part of federal legislation they are trying to get passed to required collection and payment of sales taxes for all US sales.

States proposing a federal system for anything is scary IMO.

The reason why I like a Federal System is that it offers a forced uniformity to one system for delivering data (and funds) to one central clearing house. The simplicity of such a system can avoid the uncontrolled pile of 50 states delivering their own "preferences". It retains v the KISS standard of system design and accommodates the needs of vendors who will be sending the data and the funds.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21625 posts, RR: 55
Reply 121, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 112):
The easiest approach is to have one tax level (probably 10%) with payments made weekly to the federal government. The federal government would then pay the various levels (state, county, city, school district, etc.) on a weekly basis.

Sounds a whole lot more complicated than just having the federal government collect the tax directly from the sale.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 122, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 121):
Sounds a whole lot more complicated than just having the federal government collect the tax directly from the sale.

It is a bit more complicated than that, but avoiding 50 state having their finger in the design pie simplifies it a lot. Also leaning on the credit card companies (who have a lot of iT experience puts pressure on to have simplicity. Same with the larger companies actually selling via the internet. These are the IT pros who can be an important force in maintaining KISS and delivering an operational system.

The only thing we really need from the states are the tax codes for the multiple levels within the state and the banking information (routing and account information) for sending money. States shouldn't have too much of a problem receiving the funds.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 123, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 120):
States proposing a federal system for anything is scary IMO.

It would not be a federal system.

One of the objections of Congress to a proposed federal law requiring online sellers to collect and pay the sales tax for the delivery address is that Congress does not want to be stuck with paying for the setup of a system, operation of a system, maintenance of a system.

The states proposals are for the states to take all burden/ responsibility for the system. They just want a standard law that applies all across the nation.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 124, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 73):

I feel like I'm talking to a damn wall, why don't you read what I wrote earlier and just maybe you'll find your answer.

By the way, you sound like a politician, Tugger.   



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 8
Reply 125, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 116):
IOW, given that the vast majority of people are *not* paying their use tax, tax fraud is being committed by the vast majority of people buying things over the internet (or by phone, mail, etc.) where use tax is owed. Surely it can't get any worse than that.

The big problem is the scale of online sales. Online sales are far more effective and capable than the others that you mentioned, as evidenced by their current and continuing explosive growth.


Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 124):
I feel like I'm talking to a damn wall, why don't you read what I wrote earlier and just maybe you'll find your answer.

I will go back and review to see what I missed. If I did I apologize, all I had seen was a support for a state that creates a low tax environment and saying they should be rewarded with the business and the resulting sales taxes. My view is that if this is the case then some states or regions will simply create an area with little or no living desirability and then take the sales taxes that would otherwise go to other state, while the areas that do have a desirable (and naturally higher cost) living environment will lose out and struggle to support its citizens (and remember that it was the local citizens that elected to have that tax for their community). Essentially every local business should stop selling locally and instead sell to the state next door. But as I said I will go back and reread.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 124):
By the way, you sound like a politician,

I take it that is the new de rigueur "insult"? How very political (think about it). I hope you realize that you yourself often come off as one too. Apparently being normally well spoken can get you that.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 126, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 123):
It would not be a federal system.

I believe what we need is a federal level system. That allows for simplification of of the system itself, and for rapid payment to the various state level entities.

First a federal system makes it simple for major companies to work with ONE government entity. So Amazon.com, apple.com. and b&n.com have a single point of contact. All retailers can be on the same page for their part.

Next I like the ides of funds being electronically deposited within 7 days. If you have sales taxs in your states you'll probably find that the state hangs on to cash due to the cities, counties, etc for a bit longer than you'd consider necessary.


Same deal here in Oklahoma. Tulsa even considered passing a law requiring direct payment. That effort went quiet - probably due to threats from the state.

That makes it pretty clear that there is a benefit to take the state out of the money handling game.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7202 posts, RR: 8
Reply 127, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 126):
First a federal system makes it simple for major companies to work with ONE government entity. So Amazon.com, apple.com. and b&n.com have a single point of contact. All retailers can be on the same page for their part.

Now if you could only get the federal government to look at this principle and simplify all the rules and regulations they foster on business across the nation, everything would be fine  


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 128, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 127):
Now if you could only get the federal government to look at this principle and simplify all the rules and regulations they foster on business across the nation, everything would be fine

Get something this simple going and you actually might find it happening.

Of course my first suggestion for simplification would be to put all government employees (and their families) on Medicare - eliminating all overpriced payments to private insurance companies. I can see no reason for us to continue with overpriced programs when Medicare can do the job as well, if not better.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 129, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 115):
Well hell, of course! This is A.net after all.


I don't know. Some members particularly the newer ones sound like they genuinely want to kill or imprison those that disagree with them.

Quoting tugger (Reply 115):
I gotcha. And please don't take my support for some taxes as being a blanket support for all taxes.


I certainly hope not.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 124):
By the way, you sound like a politician, Tugger.


Let's keep an eye on Tugger and see if he starts making trips to Iowa and New Hampshire in a few years.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 130, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2034 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting par13del (Reply 117):
So an honest question, if the state where the internet business is domiciled do not have a tax mechanism for online sales, the state where the consumer lives does not have a mechanism for online sales tax collection, the consumer is committing fraud by not paying something that is not defined and demanded?

As far as I know, *every* state that has a sales tax, also has a use tax for purchases made by residents of that state via mail/phone/internet (as well as some other things, but that's the relevant part of a use tax for this discussion). As the states cannot compel a purely out of state business to collect sales tax on their behalf (which is why a company will collect sales tax if they have any sort of presence in that state), the use tax is an obligation of the purchaser to pay.

Here in Illinois, you'd file an ST-1, typically at the end of the year, although if you're obligation is large enough, you may need to do it more often. See step 5 of:

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/taxforms/Sales/ST-1.pdf

You are as legally obligated to pay that as you are your state income taxes.

It is wholly defined. It is demanded by the state. There is no ambiguity or question. The state does, however, have an enforcement problem (in most cases this is only a few tens of dollars per person, annually), which has allowed the vast majority of people making online purchases to ignore the requirement. Note that as the amounts get larger, say for a business* or someone buying a high ticket item, it *does* tend to get enforced.

So yes, if you buy something over the internet, and they don’t charge you sales tax (and it’s something that you’d pay sales tax on if you bought it in the neighborhood store), you owe the state the equivalent use tax.


*Not to mention that businesses, even small ones, tend to have much better records than individuals (even if just to expense purchases on their income taxes), which makes for much more effective auditing.


ed:

I should mention that in some states local sales taxes have to be included in the use tax (not in Illinois, though). Here’s a summary:

http://www.salestaxinstitute.com/resources/rates

[Edited 2013-01-21 22:33:44]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 131, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 130):
the use tax is an obligation of the purchaser to pay.

And you know how overloaded the states are trying to keep up with all the payments that come in from individuals.  


User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 132, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1985 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 131):
Quoting rwessel (Reply 130):
the use tax is an obligation of the purchaser to pay.

And you know how overloaded the states are trying to keep up with all the payments that come in from individuals

Errr... right?

Quoting rwessel (Reply 130):
The state does, however, have an enforcement problem (in most cases this is only a few tens of dollars per person, annually), which has allowed the vast majority of people making online purchases to ignore the requirement.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Do You Agree With Your Enemies On? posted Fri Jan 2 2009 17:22:05 by Csavel
Life Changes, How Do You Deal With Them? posted Wed Jun 10 2009 21:17:52 by JetBlueGuy2006
What Colors Do You Associate With The 4 Seasons? posted Tue May 12 2009 13:32:35 by 1337Delta764
What Color Do You Associate With Smooth Jazz? posted Wed Apr 22 2009 19:01:43 by 1337Delta764
How Many Pillows Do You Sleep With?! posted Tue Oct 2 2007 01:13:14 by Tom12
Who Do You Bank With? posted Fri Aug 10 2007 21:26:01 by PanAm330
Do You Play Halo Online "pc"? posted Sun Mar 18 2007 10:26:29 by CVGpilot
What Do You Struggle With Day To Day? posted Sat Mar 3 2007 22:00:04 by Speedbird747BA
What Type Of Arguments Do You Have With Neighbours posted Thu Aug 24 2006 11:25:38 by Runway23
How Do You Deal With The Stress? posted Mon Mar 20 2006 02:17:11 by TACAA320