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Briton Gets Death Sentence For Drug Smuggling  
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

A British national, Lindsay Sandiford, has been sentenced to death in Bali for smuggling nearly 5kg of cocaine into Indonesia. Although it was of course known that Indonesia can impose the death penalty for drug importation, the sentence was hugely unexpected, not least because the prosecution had only sought 15 years imprisonment.

Her defence has involved many factors, from claims of threats against her family to force her into smuggling, to evidence presented suggesting that she was vulnerable to exploitation due to a history of mental illness.

I am opposed to the death penalty in principle. However, I am far from swayed by the defence claims, and the fact is that she was essentially caught red-handed. If you are going to smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty for that offence, I guess you should be prepared to face that penalty.

The UK government has of course, as a staunch opponent of the death penalty, strongly condemned the sentence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21137649

So, where do you stand on the sentence?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6452 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3178 times:
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I am against the death penalty. But I also respect the laws of other countries. I also think that the harshness of the sentence has to do with the fact that it wasn´t a few grams she was smuggling. Five kg of cocaine is A LOT.

User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Well, always sad to see archaic modes of punishment. Then again, it's well known that you risk your life if you smuggle drugs in Asia. With 5kg, she pretty much had it coming.


Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 2):
Well, always sad to see archaic modes of punishment. Then again, it's well known that you risk your life if you smuggle drugs in Asia. With 5kg, she pretty much had it coming.

Yup. What do you make of the defence claims of coercion?

Here is an article from The Independent which makes the argument that most drug mules are merely the pawns of traffickers, who should be treated leniently. It further claims that 'most' are coerced into it somehow.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...8427027.html?origin=internalSearch

I disagree with much of this. What say you?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6819 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

Are those policies any better at fighting drug abuse in those countries ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):

So, where do you stand on the sentence?

She did the crime, so her punishment is fitting. How do they execute people in Indonesia?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7966 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
I am opposed to the death penalty in principle. However, I am far from swayed by the defence claims, and the fact is that she was essentially caught red-handed. If you are going to smuggle drugs into a country with the death penalty for that offence, I guess you should be prepared to face that penalty.

I am the same way. I see stuff all the time I think is way too harsh but you really have to ask how they didn't see it coming. I disagree with the National Guard soldiers at Kent State but you have to ask the protesters "come on, do you really think it was smart to throw rocks at guys with guns?"

I do sense that maybe this is being used as an example since the prosecution only wanted 15 years. Hopefully she's not being treated unfairly. I'm against the death penalty too, but if they are going to use it, I hope it's at least used consistently.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineFaddyPainter From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):
How do they execute people in Indonesia?

Firing Squad in this instance.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):
She did the crime, so her punishment is fitting. How do they execute people in Indonesia?

She is sentenced to death by firing squad.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
I do sense that maybe this is being used as an example since the prosecution only wanted 15 years

That is quite possibly so. It seems to be the case that many people sentenced to death in Indonesia never actually have the sentence carried out, so it may be that at some point there is a commution. On the other hand, if they are really hell-bent on setting that example they may carry the punishment through.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineKBJCpilot From United States of America, joined May 2012, 177 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

I have no compassion for this woman. She should have known the risks by bringing in 5kg of coke. Idiot.

I would like to see the return of physical punishment here in the USA. I think that if a drug dealer, a thief, a burglar, etc. knew that if they were caught and convicted and that their punishment would be 100 lashes with a cane, they may rethink their line of work. And if they still entered their preferred life of crime I bet they would soon reach out to a different occupation after the first time they were caned. Screw prison, the first conviction gets you 50 lashes, the second conviction gets you 100 lashes, and the 3rd gets you 200 plus time in the big house.

Wishful thinking...



Samsonite, I was way off!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8416 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

I believe that there should be an opportunity for commutation if the prisoner work with police & customs officers, identifying their supplier and the operation they were involved in.

Otherwise it should be no surprise that there is a death penalty, and that it is carried out.


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3515 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2937 times:
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In Singapore you face the death penalty if you carry more that 12 g of drugs, 5 Kilos is a lot. BTW it is written in the entrance form passengers fill in most all countries in SE Asia that you face the death penalty for drug smuggling, so she was warned, her problem.


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 11):
In Singapore you face the death penalty if you carry more that 12 g of drugs, 5 Kilos is a lot. BTW it is written in the entrance form passengers fill in most all countries in SE Asia that you face the death penalty for drug smuggling, so she was warned, her problem.

That always makes me laugh. It's kind of too late by the time you get to the form-filling stage for immigration. Are you supposed to own up straight away to avoid the death penalty?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20191 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

I agree with the sentiments. I vehemently oppose the War on Drugs and I think that killing someone for mere possession of a substance that cannot harm an innocent bystander (it's not an explosive or a potent nerve gas or a biological agent) is absolute moral corruption.

That said, countries like Indonesia make no secret of the fact that the penalty for drug smuggling is death. Don't like it? Don't go there. And most CERTAINLY don't smuggle drugs there.


User currently offlinedc9northwest From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 2299 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

They're stupid.

Both her and the people in Indonesia who uphold the death penalty for this crime.

Death penalty IMO can only even be a thing to consider in 2 cases (as in, a coherent argument can be made, not that I necessarily support it): murder (this includes war crimes/crimes against humanity) and aggravated rape.

These countries are taking it too far. However, this fact is well known, and therefore, this course of events could have been expected.


User currently offlineA320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):

I agree with the sentiments. I vehemently oppose the War on Drugs and I think that killing someone for mere possession of a substance that cannot harm an innocent bystander (it's not an explosive or a potent nerve gas or a biological agent) is absolute moral corruption.

What if these drugs somehow found themselves in the hands of children, say parents who have OD'd? E.g. Children think its sweets/sugar whatever, takes some, dies. They would be innocent bystanders. What about vulnerable people? In some African countries, some drug lords forcibly inject drugs into young woman, to get them hooked. They need the drugs but can't afford it so the drug lord makes them work as prostitutes. Drugs ruin innocent lives.

A320ajm



If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2815 times:
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Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 9):
I think that if a drug dealer, a thief, a burglar, etc. knew that if they were caught and convicted and that their punishment would be 100 lashes with a cane, they may rethink their line of work.

Well, the death penalty is certainly not a deterrent against murder, so why do you think this would work?

I main issue I have with this whole situation is that it's the drug mules that get punished, not the real criminals. Most drug mules have been coerced in some way to carry the drugs.

I completely oppose the death penalty, so hope that her punishment is reduced on appeal.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineHywel From Uganda, joined Apr 2008, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):

I agree with the sentiments. I vehemently oppose the War on Drugs and I think that killing someone for mere possession of a substance that cannot harm an innocent bystander (it's not an explosive or a potent nerve gas or a biological agent) is absolute moral corruption.

That said, countries like Indonesia make no secret of the fact that the penalty for drug smuggling is death. Don't like it? Don't go there. And most CERTAINLY don't smuggle drugs there.

Couldn't have written it better myself!


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8731 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
So, where do you stand on the sentence?

In the same place as always: the death penalty is barbarian and executions are murder.

Whenever this repugnant practice comes into play, the crime committed takes a backseat to the state-sponsored homicide. Shame on the judge, not even the prosecution demanded this despicable sentence.

[Edited 2013-01-22 15:00:13]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10239 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2797 times:
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Quoting A320ajm (Reply 15):
Drugs ruin innocent lives.

So does alcohol. So does tobacco. So do cars. So does cholesterol. So do airplanes. So do trains. So do bicycles. So do guns. So do knives. So do electrical appliances. So do bathtubs.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineA320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 19):
So does alcohol. So does tobacco. So do cars. So does cholesterol. So do airplanes. So do trains. So do bicycles. So do guns. So do knives. So do electrical appliances. So do bathtubs.

Drugs are inherently more dangerous, and fund other criminal activities.



If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2134 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 20):
Drugs are inherently more dangerous, and fund other criminal activities.

So do bathtubs.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7966 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 20):
and fund other criminal activities.

To be fair, it's because they are illegal. If you made tobacco illegal, I think you'd see it turn into a 'dangerous drug.' I'm ok with banning a drug that really only causes the user to commit mayhem and harm others, but if it's only harming yourself, go for it. I also don't want to get hung up on technicalities like "what if someone smokes a lot of weed and goes driving" because in that case, we really need to ban alcohol because people abuse that and do stupid things with it and it's legal



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10239 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2740 times:
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Quoting Rara (Reply 21):
Quoting A320ajm (Reply 20):
Drugs are inherently more dangerous, and fund other criminal activities.

So do bathtubs.

      

That absolutely cracked me up!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
we really need to ban alcohol because people abuse that and do stupid things with it and it's legal

Not to mention, alcohol funded plenty of criminal activity.....when it was illegal. Is there a connection there?

And I'm much more afraid of electrocuting myself than of OD'ing on whatever drug. I wouldn't necessarily make the case that drugs are inherently more dangerous than electricity, or than driving. Or than food, if we're talking about heart disease and such.

Anyway....



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2189 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2722 times:

What is especially disturbing in this case is that the prosecution recommended jailing her 15 years and that Sandiford cooperated with the police to catch other drug couriers, who got all got relatively light sentences.

ABC news



Applying insanity to normality
25 AirframeAS : Too harsh, even though I'm pro-death penalty. She doesn't deserve the sentence imposed. Deport her and let her go home. According to the article, the
26 Maverick623 : I'm not completely against the death penalty, although I do think it should only be used on the most depraved of murderers. Low level drug mules? Gimm
27 TheSorcerer : Which I find stupid. What incentive is there for drug mules to cooperate if they're just as likely to face the death penalty?
28 LTBEWR : And people complain about the drug law penalties in the USA ! Still I do have a problem with a death penalty for 'mueling' drugs, it should be for the
29 YVRLTN : I am in agreement with you. This should be her get out of jail free card, if this can indeed be proved then its quite possible she should not be entir
30 A320ajm : I was talking about drugs in general. I never mentioned cocaine. I am against illegal substances fully, and support strong punishments for those wish
31 KBJCpilot : The death penalty does not deter murder because it is not swiflty enforced. You have a better chance passing away from old age than by execution when
32 DocLightning : Then we should ban all pharmaceuticals, too, because that happens. Illegal drugs, especially the dangerous ones, are usually not very active when swa
33 Post contains images vikkyvik : Well now I'm offended! But I've realized you might be correct. This comment is much funnier: But I guess I missed the part where the thread transitio
34 A320ajm : If you are taking pharmaceuticals then it's for medical reasons. And the way your argument goes, you have basically said it's safe to have illegal su
35 Geezer : That's easy.........( "If you don't tell us what we want to know, we will shoot you at 6:PM, TODAY"; "if you DO tell us what we want to know, we won'
36 AirframeAS : Don't take it personal. I wouldn't. Learned that lesson long ago when I first joined. Cut VikkyVik some slack here.... No harm, no foul. We should ba
37 Post contains images RussianJet : I do think the illegal drugs which cause the most harm should remain illegal. No society needs crack cocaine or methamphetamine, or heroin, for examp
38 vikkyvik : When you say "you must be...", that pretty much defines a personal comment/attack. Senses of humor differ. I certainly don't care if you don't find i
39 dc9northwest : Funniest comment I've read on A.net. Beats flairport. Hahahaha. Alcohol and cigarettes are actually drugs, no matter how much society might like gett
40 A320ajm : Please forgive me for not realising the 1st world problems caused by drinking and smoking you listed are more severe problems than issues like gang t
41 vikkyvik : Why would you assume those are solely 1st world problems?
42 DocLightning : How about this: I'm a board-certified pediatrician and I know an AWFUL lot about this subject. I am NOT saying it is safe to have drugs, legal or oth
43 RussianJet : Indeed. They certainly are not solely the preserve of richer lands.[Edited 2013-01-23 16:22:59]
44 aloges : You do realise that both are issues solely because Cocaine and Heroin have been made illegal? Just look at all the gang wars that alcohol prohibition
45 Post contains images AirframeAS : I am quite baffled on how you came to this line of thinking...... Care to explain?
46 DeltaMD90 : Well aloges took the words right out of my mouth: Yep. Why doesn't the cartel smuggle in tobacco or alcohol?
47 DocLightning : Can you corroborrate this? It's awfully hard to get someone hooked on drugs without their consent.
48 A320ajm : Look, the point of my sayings is that drugs are illegal and do cause problems. Saying well that's only because they are illegal is beside the point on
49 aloges : Two very potent drugs are legal in most places and cause immense damage. It isn't, you were describing the very sort of problem that stems from illic
50 AR385 : First world problems? Look at the leading causes of death in Mexico, as you´ve cited Mexico in one of your examples. See how Cirrhosis of the liver
51 RussianJet : There have long been anecdotal stories of human traffickers forcibly injecting girls with heroin regularly to induce addiction, and while it may be h
52 pvjin : I don't really feel any sympathy for her, another idiot who thought it would be good idea to make some quick money by smuggling drugs to a country wit
53 qf002 : Assuming that her story is true, I doubt this woman has any regrets in doing what she did. If she had to chose between losing her life or a young rela
54 falstaff : That is sweet. We need more of that in the USA. That's right. She broke the law so she has to deal with it. I respect the laws of the countries I tra
55 RussianJet : Shooting people tied to a post is never 'sweet'. It's always a shame, whether or not you consider the punishment justified. You may consider she dese
56 Post contains images A320ajm : My best friend lived in Mexico for a while - and he has made loads of Mexican friends and even taught at a Mexican university. And guess what?! The c
57 RussianJet : If you don't think that, there's probably no point in participating. I for one have learnt lots from being here and listening to people. Being strong
58 DocLightning : Then you must have lived a very sheltered life. I've seen MANY kids who would have died of alcohol poisoning save for the fact that we were standing
59 vikkyvik : I love it! Don't provide evidence, just tell your audience how ignorant they are. It's a very obvious strategy. Ahhh, don't bother going down that ro
60 A320ajm : A lot of close family members of mine are in law enforcement. After the horror stories I have heard regarding drugs, ans their opinions after seeing
61 RussianJet : The expense I think is perhaps not such an issue. Certainly the gangs operating in the Balkans have heroin at their disposal, as they are key players
62 DeltaMD90 : Why is alcohol and tobacco legal while weed is not? I can see people argue against weed but I can't see how they can also be for alcohol and tobacco
63 falstaff : Neither have I. I would imagine sucking in all that smoke might not be too good for you. You work in the business where you see that kind of thing; I
64 Post contains links lewis : So what is their opinion after working a night shift in days like this and dealing with : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-fuelled-chaos-citie
65 DocLightning : Move on to what else? I keep on hearing the argument, but nobody has ever answered my simple question. "They won't give up." OK? So what will they do
66 Post contains images AR385 : I don´t get it. I provide you with a table to try and explain things to you and you come back telling me an anecdote of your best friend´s interact
67 Post contains images StarAC17 : That is likely the end goal of an organization like MADD, they have become very neo-prohibitionist that the original founder of the organization Cand
68 bogota : I do think the whole war on drugs should end. Far too many resources (especially on the producing end) invested and demand seems to continue to grow.
69 Flighty : Hopefully they can use her organs for something good. This has the potential to become a positive story.
70 dc9northwest : OK. In this case, all drugs must be treated the same. Death penalty for injecting some heroin? Also death penalty for drinking a glass of beer. Death
71 bogota : What ever you do is perfect as long as the double standard does not continue. The problem is that the companies of legal drugs are based in richer co
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