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Hillary Has Returned  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

With all the fluff in the past about Hillary falling in order to hide from Congress it was interesting watch the old gal stride up to Congress and spend a full day testifying. A few Republicans tried to be nasty - like Rush had written their comments - but mostly those who asked intelligent question received intelligent responses.

My Dork of the Week Award has to go to Rand Paul who, failing to understand that the 1.4 million or so messages are, by tradition, are addressed to the Secretary, would fire the Secretary for not having read a handful he was focused on.

Poor Rand - he wants to be important so bad. Reminds me of mcCain now that he isn't a Committee Chairman.

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1909 times:

There has been such a huge stink over four Americans murdered in Lybia. That is tragic. But, nothing has been done about the twenty children who were murdered on American soil. Except "we need more guns to control the gun problem!"

I love how the right-wing Senators are focused on one note when Hillary tries to explain the whole choir to them. The strangest part is: they insist she never claimed any responsibility for anything yet, for the umpteenth time today, she claimed responsibility. Again. But, that will not ever be reported by the right-wing media.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8459 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1895 times:

The hearing looked like a political hack job. I don't think any new information was made just a bunch of clowns trying to build their mala fides on national security foreign policy and tired talking points from Fox. I think the winner in this soap opera was Hilary.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8846 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1871 times:

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 2):
The hearing looked like a political hack job. I don't think any new information was made just a bunch of clowns trying to build their mala fides on national security foreign policy and tired talking points from Fox. I think the winner in this soap opera was Hilary.

It was a hack job by many hacks. Their greatest fear and main concern is of course 2016 and her plans. someone alluded to that and it made her laugh. They are slinging the mud very early. All to no avail.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1826 times:

I think this Benghazi gate this is BS but I have no problems with them trying to see if there was a scandal... now, I think they have and are going way too far and I smell a skunk, so well see...

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 3):

Welcome back, friend!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
they insist she never claimed any responsibility for anything yet, for the umpteenth time today, she claimed responsibility.

He was making a very valid point. For years we hear from politicians "I accept responsibility", but does not accept any punishment. It is an insulting charade of buck-stops-here bravado politicians who are happy to “show leadership” by admitting to their failures on the condition that they’ll suffer no consequences for them. She knew of the security problems - the late ambassador pleaded personally to her, and she did nothing. Those deaths are on her head, as far as I can tell.

Also insulting was Clinton's angry response to the question of why the Administration pushed a false narrative for two weeks, “What difference does it make?”. Even CBS News' had to admit that the question was legitimate, and her answer was not, saying "It DOES make a difference".

Washington Post agrees:

Quote:
That exchange drives at one of the premier media issues of 2012: Did the press push the administration hard enough and early enough to sort out the explanation for the Benghazi attacks? Certainly the conservative media did, asking for more and more detail and criticizing mainstream outlets for not caring enough about discrepancies in the accounts of Obama administration principals.

No matter your view of the media’s role in Benghazi; no matter your take on whether U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice leveled with the country on the Sept. 16 talk shows; no matter your view of Fox News’s Benghazi campaign, it surely does make a difference whether it was “because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided they’d go kill some Americans.” It makes a difference to the media, the public, the government, everyone.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...es-a-difference-secretary-clinton/



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5359 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

I did see it nor hear it. So, I won't comment on the testimony, but I will comment on one post:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
There has been such a huge stink over four Americans murdered in Lybia. That is tragic. But, nothing has been done about the twenty children who were murdered on American soil. Except "we need more guns to control the gun problem!"


Because, as an old saw goes:

"Domestic policy can only defeat us; foreign policy can kill us" ~John F. Kennedy

US foreign policy gone wrong can start wars. US foreign policy gone wrong can destabilize nations and regions. US foreign policy gone wrong, in short, kills.

We've made mistakes in foreign policy before and we'll make them again. But, we have to learn from those mistakes. And, let's be very clear on this, if an ambassador was killed, mistakes were made. Question is: has the mistake been made worse by this administration not calling it what it was right from the start?

I'll leave that to the experts.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 6):
"Domestic policy can only defeat us; foreign policy can kill us" ~John F. Kennedy

I do see where you are going and agree that foreign policy is pretty significant, but I think us Americans fail to see the scope of our domestic issues. Without going into one specific problem, we lose tens of thousands each year to violence, alcohol, suicides, etc... much more than even some of our worst wars...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Well did they know from the start ?

Aside from that I was reading about "Freedom of Navigation" operations in Libya under Reagan and others and it looks to me like the kind of thing you do when you want to make enemies and start wars.

Ironically enough the US hasn't yet ratified the treaty it campaigned for decades ago, and Hillary was/is in the process of getting it before Congress.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1760 times:
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Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Dork of the Week Award

Superb. Is there a prize?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
My Dork of the Week Award has to go to Rand Paul

I was mildly amused that the title of Sen. Paul's latest book is ‘Government Bullies’.   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1723 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Also insulting was Clinton's angry response to the question of why the Administration pushed a false narrative for two weeks

So, it makes no difference that for two weeks, and even up to this very moment, they had bits and pieces of information coming in. So, the right wing went with the first thing that came out of the State Department and ran with it. That is the only thing the right wing will accept. The refuse to accept anything else other than the very first statement to come from the State Department.

That sums it up. They will cling to their false narrative because they think it makes Hillary and Obama and Democrats look bad. But, those of us who read and get our news from other sources.... oh, forget it. Anyone not blindly following the right-wing narrative is anti-American.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1712 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Also insulting was Clinton's angry response to the question of why the Administration pushed a false narrative for two weeks, “What difference does it make?”

Frankly, I'd be angry too. Her employees got murdered and all the GOP can do is insinuate that she doesn't care, or that she used that fact to spread lies for some nefarious agenda. Rather than talk about the efforts she's implementing, suggested by the commission that the GOP was pushing so hard for?


User currently offlinedc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

Ah Hillary you moron, there is a difference and you dropped the ball getting 4 Americans murdered. I don't believe a damn thing that comes out of this administration.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21528 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Also insulting was Clinton's angry response to the question of why the Administration pushed a false narrative for two weeks, “What difference does it make?”.

That's not the question that was asked. The question that was asked was why she didn't make a phone call to find out whether there had been protests for not. Her answer was that she didn't want to interfere with the ongoing process. And she's right about that - the situation was fluid and changing, and any answer they got at the time was likely to be contradicted by other evidence still forthcoming.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Washington Post agrees:

Erik Wemple is not the Washington Post.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

One of the big mistakes was to have UN Ambassador Rice put out the story of the deaths were the result of a protest. It would have been far better to not have her go on the news shows at all, instead have sent someone else in the Administration who should have said that the President's staff, the CIA and the State Dept. was still investigating what happened, called it an act of terrorism on America that it was. I think the need for instant answers to the public for whey such acts occurred caused the CIA to push a cover story. A few days of delay could have given the time necessary to correctly determine and disclose who and what was behind these attacks.

As to Sec. Clinton's appearance, to me she looked a lot older, tired, still angry for some of these same people or of the same angry thinking men who hounded and impeached her President husband Bill. Too many of these politicians, especially the Republicans, used this hearing to bash the Administration and her for their policies, they failed to really determine what happened in Benghazi and how to prevent such terror acts occurred. Some also wanted to neuter her trying to run for President in 2016 (which I also hope, although a loyal Democrat, she doesn't do for a variety of reasons).

There was in this terror attack, terrible failures of communications to the State Dept., of the military who are to protect our diplomatic facilities, of improving our intellegance in hostile areas. These hearings with Sec. Clinton were worthless to achieve those goals.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2713 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 12):
Frankly, I'd be angry too. Her employees got murdered

Because of her inaction..

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 12):
can do is insinuate that she doesn't care

All she cares about is her image.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
They will cling to their false narrative

Nothing false about it. They failed to act before and during the attack and then lied to cover it up afterwards.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
So, it makes no difference that for two weeks, and even up to this very moment, they had bits and pieces of information coming in.

They knew AQ-affiliated terrorists were in the area in force months before the attack. Testimony shows that within hours they were pretty certain it was a planned terrorist attack, and withing 24 hours they were completely certain

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
So, the right wing went with the first thing that came out of the State Department and ran with it.

They blamed Youtube for nearly 2 whole weeks.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
They will cling to their false narrative because they think it makes Hillary and Obama and Democrats look bad.

They need no help.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 12):
Frankly, I'd be angry too. Her employees got murdered and all the GOP can do is insinuate that she doesn't care, or that she used that fact to spread lies for some nefarious agenda.

That is incorrect. I think she cares, and I don't think she had a nefarious agenda. I just don't think she is particularly competant, and is handicapped by her worldview, as is Obama. They see the world as they want it to be, not as it is.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 16):

One of the big mistakes was to have UN Ambassador Rice put out the story of the deaths were the result of a protest.

I'm sure Clinton was asked (bombarded) with interview requests, but decided to duck them all and send out Rice.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1570 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
They knew AQ-affiliated terrorists were in the area in force months before the attack. Testimony shows that within hours they were pretty certain it was a planned terrorist attack, and withing 24 hours they were completely certain

So again, who cares what was reported to the news media?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
They blamed Youtube for nearly 2 whole weeks

And why not, if they knew the truth, tipping off the terrorists wasn't in their best interests of finding who did.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
They need no help.

They need help, but they don't recognize it within the Maelstrom of misinformation with the right wing media back slapping and misreporting.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1564 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
So again, who cares what was reported to the news media?
Quoting casinterest (Reply 19):
And why not, if they knew the truth, tipping off the terrorists wasn't in their best interests of finding who did.

Am I mistaken, or does it sound like you have no problem with the government lying to us (only if controlled by Democrats, of course)?

We are not talking about military disinformation here - saying we will invade X when actually we intend to go to Y. There were no sources to protect. Just a potentially very embarrassing situation where, after months of spiking the football and claiming that AQ was defeated and powerless, that they were actually back to where they were in the late 90s - successfully attacking high-profile American targets.



[Edited 2013-01-24 06:51:56]


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
Am I mistaken, or does it sound like you have no problem with the government lying to us (only if controlled by Democrats, of course)?

Nope, I have a problem with a 3rd world entertainment channel masquerading as a right wing news platform, that manufactures outrage where there should be none.

I am also sick and tired of the tin foilded folks that watch this network that have lost all dignity in a quest for politicalization of incidents.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
We are not talking about military disinformation here - saying we will invade X when actually we intend to go to Y. There were no sources to protect. Just a potentially very embarrassing situation where, after months of spiking the football and claiming that AQ was defeated and powerless, that they were actually back to where they were in the late 90s - successfully attacking high-profile American targets.

They are terrorists, and news organizations around the world and politically leanding messaging helps create folks that are ideaologically predisposed to perform ideological actions when they know no better.

By the way your picture is empty.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 21):
Nope, I have a problem with a 3rd world entertainment channel masquerading as a right wing news platform, that manufactures outrage where there should be none.

So once again, you are saying that you have no problem with the government lying to its people for political purposes. The administration seems to agree with you. Freedom of Information Act requests have been denied and lawsuits filed at a record pace under Obama, in spite of his promise to be "the most transparent administration". FOIA lawsuits are filed to challenge denials of records requests or the use of exemptions of information by federal agencies. The number of FOIA lawsuits filed against the State Department rose by 111 percent in those time periods, from 18 to 38. FOIA lawsuits rose by 60 percent at both the (EPA) and the Department of Veterans Affairs. Additionally, the Department of Justice saw an increase of 50 percent.

http://foiaproject.org/2012/12/20/in...suits-during-obama-administration/

Admit it, If GW Bush had done the same thing, you would be calling for a public lynching on the steps of the Capitol. C'mon, admit it.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1535 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
GW Bush had done the same thing, you would be calling for a public lynching on the steps of the Capitol. C'mon, admit it.

Did you call for GWB for public lynching?

It cuts both ways..



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
That is incorrect. I think she cares, and I don't think she had a nefarious agenda. I just don't think she is particularly competant, and is handicapped by her worldview, as is Obama. They see the world as they want it to be, not as it is.

So your entire critique of Clinton's actions and testimony boils down to a previously formed opinion?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 17):
Nothing false about it. They failed to act before and during the attack and then lied to cover it up afterwards.

There were several GOP legislators asking about what was and wasn't possible as a response during the attack. Oddly enough none of them got nearly as much traction in the media as the ones who were grandstanding about soft-on-terror narratives.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
So once again, you are saying that you have no problem with the government lying to its people for political purposes.

They didn't lie. They didn't have the full picture either.
oops I forgot. you are GOP. You don't believe in evidence.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Admit it, If GW Bush had done the same thing, you would be calling for a public lynching on the steps of the Capitol. C'mon, admit it.

No I wouldn't Because
1. Bush was not in the chain of command.
2 I am not a racist that thinks of lynching in conjunction with the president of the United States.
3.. Because unlike the GOP . I love this country no matter who is in charge.
4. I also trust those in Government service that serve through different political leaders to do their jobs to the best of their ability.
5. I don't let anti american organizations like News corp and Fake news ruin my perception of America.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1553 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 23):
Did you call for GWB for public lynching?

It cuts both ways..

He didn't do the same thing, did he? And I have criticized him for plenty of things. But here we have something so in-your-face blatant, and you guys just can't bring yourself to say that anything Obama does is unacceptable. Obama could stab Michelle in the face with a kitchen knife and you guys would still find an excuse for it, and Chris Matthews would chastise the right for voicing their opinions on what would clearly be a domestic squabble that is none of their damned business.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 25):
They didn't lie. They didn't have the full picture either.
oops I forgot. you are GOP. You don't believe in evidence.

Have you been asleep for 5 months? They knew for a fact that the attack had nothing to do with Youtube within 24 hours. All that has been in evidence since late September.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 25):
No I wouldn't Because
1. Bush was not in the chain of command.
2 I am not a racist that thinks of lynching in conjunction with the president of the United States.
3.. Because unlike the GOP . I love this country no matter who is in charge.
4. I also trust those in Government service that serve through different political leaders to do their jobs to the best of their ability.
5. I don't let anti american organizations like News corp and Fake news ruin my perception of America.

There are so many problems with this list I won't even bother...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):

Have you been asleep for 5 months? They knew for a fact that the attack had nothing to do with Youtube within 24 hours. All that has been in evidence since late September.

Honestly, Who cares? You are so worried about whether the ATTACK started as a protest of a film, or whether the ATTACK started because someone had a politcal agenda. It was still an ATTACK.
With your attention to detail about what kind of ATTACK it was, it would seem to be that you think there is a difference in what happened leading up to the ATTACK?

Perhaps you would like to comment on the differences in GUNS vs ASSUALT guns ?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
There are so many problems with this list I won't even bother...

You are the one that started with a rather baseless accusation tossed in with racial undertones. I can understand why you can't follow through.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1532 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 28):
You are so worried about whether the ATTACK started as a protest of a film, or whether the ATTACK started because someone had a politcal agenda. It was still an ATTACK.

  

You're beating a dead horse. Or maybe a zombie horse, because it doesn't realize it is dead.

These guys have been exposed for making political hay, that's all. Not one of these fools would ever say what they would do differently after the attack between if the attack were borne out of a protest versus borne out of political agenda. In either case, you hunt down the rat and exterminate it. But these fools are too busy worrying about what color were the rats' paws to bother about setting up mousetraps.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 28):
Honestly, Who cares? You are so worried about whether the ATTACK started as a protest of a film, or whether the ATTACK started because someone had a politcal agenda. It was still an ATTACK.
With your attention to detail about what kind of ATTACK it was, it would seem to be that you think there is a difference in what happened leading up to the ATTACK?

If the Bush Administration had started blaming 9/11 on North Korea, in spite of knowing it was AQ, so that they could increase pressure on NK for whatever politically expedient reason, you would have thought that was OK?

The American people need to know who the enemy is and what motivates them.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 28):
You are the one that started with a rather baseless accusation tossed in with racial undertones. I can understand why you can't follow through.

YOU are the one who injected racism, from the term 'lynching'. FYI, lynching is simply an extra-judicial execution - mob justice frequently accompanied by torture. You might associate it only with the KKK, but it was very commonplace in the west before law and courts were established - horse and cattle thieves were routinely lynched, for example. Simply using the term does not in any way carry racist undertones, except to those people who see everything through a prism of racism - and who are themselves, by definition, racist.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
YOU are the one who injected racism, from the term 'lynching'. FYI, lynching is simply an extra-judicial execution - mob justice frequently accompanied by torture. You might associate it only with the KKK, but it was very commonplace in the west before law and courts were established - horse and cattle thieves were routinely lynched, for example. Simply using the term does not in any way carry racist undertones, except to those people who see everything through a prism of racism - and who are themselves, by definition, racist.

The last use of lynching in the US was for racial purposes outside of the law. So yes I will conpletely attribute it to a racial undertone, because why bring it up in reference to a president ? Unless you are considering the current occupan for a lynching. It is based on torture and mob justice as you stated. Not on sound law. The very fact that you bring up lynching means that you would use that rather than respect the law, and not in terms of the old west.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
If the Bush Administration had started blaming 9/11 on North Korea, in spite of knowing it was AQ, so that they could increase pressure on NK for whatever politically expedient reason, you would have thought that was OK?

and the sky is green?

Your argument holds no water. NK was making no protests in NYC of their treatment by the US government .

There were protests that day and the day before over the "firm" in question. There was a strong probability that it would be directed at places through out the mideast. In this cause . it was a plausible reason that no one refuted initially. The folks that were onsite know what happeend and they gave their reports. Knowing the cause of it was after the fact still doesn't change the fact that it was an ATTACK.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinen229nw From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1937 posts, RR: 32
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
If the Bush Administration had started blaming 9/11 on North Korea, in spite of knowing it was AQ, so that they could increase pressure on NK for whatever politically expedient reason, you would have thought that was OK?

The American people need to know who the enemy is and what motivates them.

Now that's funny. Because the analogy holds up. Except, for North Korea, substitute Iraq. And here is the difference. This administration said "oops" two weeks later. The Bush administration kept up the lies and distortions--which went much deeper because they involved strong-arming and browbeating the intelligence community to keep giving them the answers they wanted--and used it to start a war (repeat: WAR) they had already planned and hoped for. The difference is overwhelming. Night and day.

So, whose view of the world is clouded and doesn't correspond to reality again?

But thanks for playing.



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

Quoting n229nw (Reply 32):
Now that's funny. Because the analogy holds up. Except, for North Korea, substitute Iraq. And here is the difference. This administration said "oops" two weeks later. The Bush administration kept up the lies and distortions--which went much deeper because they involved strong-arming and browbeating the intelligence community to keep giving them the answers they wanted--and used it to start a war (repeat: WAR) they had already planned and hoped for. The difference is overwhelming. Night and day.

So, whose view of the world is clouded and doesn't correspond to reality again?

But thanks for playing.

You seem to have selective memory. Everyone was convinced that Saddam had WMDs, including Clinton when he was president, the Russians, the French, everyone. Saddam wanted to keep things vague because he did not want to appear weak and assumed that nobody would call his bluff. Bush did not have to try to convince anyone about the WMDs, they already were. The only difference of opinion was what to do about it.

And yes, it was a huge mistake, and as president Bush carries the responsibility of the mistake. But blaming it all on him is dishonest.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
Admit it, If GW Bush had done the same thing, you would be calling for a public lynching on the steps of the Capitol. C'mon, admit it.


Funny you should bring this up. What GWB did was much worse. Except in that case some of the same GOP senators who seem to be so "outraged" over Benghazi were either silent over Iraq or were cheerleaders for it.


User currently offlineiakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3312 posts, RR: 35
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
You seem to have selective memory. Everyone was convinced that Saddam had WMDs, including Clinton when he was president, the Russians, the French, everyone. Saddam wanted to keep things vague because he did not want to appear weak and assumed that nobody would call his bluff. Bush did not have to try to convince anyone about the WMDs, they already were. The only difference of opinion was what to do about it.

I do not know what channel you are watching or frequency you are listening to, but the device is definitely off tune.

Good reads before calling the technician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...s_Security_Council_Resolution_1441

USA, UK and Spain do not make for everyone. You do not remember French fries et al ?


User currently offlinedaviation From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

Under the circumstances, I think Clinton handled herself very well. The Repubs were foaming at the mouth and the Dems were genuflecting at her knee. The truth is somewhere in between.

But let's be honest, if Clinton and Obama weren't the Administration's leaders, this wouldn't have even made the news. Does the average American care about a foreign service officer in Libya? I don't recall as much angst when there were terrorist attacks on Americans in Beirut, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia.

Rand Paul's attempt to demonize Clinton just looked pathetic. And McCain - the has-been who gave us Sarah Palin.

(And Windy95 - I am a staunch supporter of Israel, but I think your statement about Clinton is pretty nervy considering some of your leaders. The ones like Liberman and Olmert who are brought up on charges, the ones like Bibi clamoring for war against Iran. I think Israel ought to be very grateful for clear-thinking Americans like Obama and Clinton)



PlaneFlown:717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC8,DC9,DC10,L1011,F100,A300,319,320,321,330,340,CRJ,ERJ,E190,Av85,DH8,Beaver,ATR
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 36):

And what is your proof? Just like every other conspiracy theories, it hangs on a lot of circumstantial evidence and far fetched ideas. Oh, and total secrecy from everyone involved. I mean really, if you think they're disciplined enough to keep their mouth shut, don't you think they could find 4 more corrupt people that wouldn't open their mouths? I mean really.

1/10



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
they insist she never claimed any responsibility for anything yet, for the umpteenth time today, she claimed responsibility.

What we have here is a highly partisan subject being tossed about by a group of highly partisan individuals; to wit: the above attempt to make Hilary Clinton "look good"; (which clearly is impossible ! NOTHING can make Hillary "look good"!) (mainly because she "isn't good", and also because she "looks" BAD.)

Then we have the very well though out and perfectly sensible following reply which states:

He was making a very valid point. For years we hear from politicians "I accept responsibility", but does not accept any punishment. It is an insulting charade of buck-stops-here bravado politicians who are happy to “show leadership” by admitting to their failures on the condition that they’ll suffer no consequences for them. She knew of the security problems - the late ambassador pleaded personally to her, and she did nothing. Those deaths are on her head, as far as I can tell.

Anyone not agreeing with the proceeding is looking through opaque glasses, because it's quite true; but partisan feelings leave no room for objectivity; Oh no !

[quote=casinterest,reply=20]Nope, I have a problem with a 3rd world entertainment channel masquerading as a right wing news platform, that manufactures outrage where there should be none.

I too have a problem; with people spewing "liberal opinion as if it were the truth, (which it clearly isn't) you are making a "clever" (in your opinion) attempt to dis-credit Fox News, and trying to intimate that it is dis-honest (which it isn't) like "The Daily Kos".....which is dishonest.

I am also sick and tired of the tin foilded folks that watch this network that have lost all dignity in a quest for politicalization of incidents.

Now you are "sick and tired"....( "tin foilded folks" ???) (must be some new kind of "folks") "lost all dignity" ? in YOUR "opinion".......NOT mine ! (your "folks" are the ones who are lacking "dignity"; (IMO) (which differs 180 from "yours")

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):
By the way your picture is empty.

So is YOUR logic !

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
Did you call for GWB for public lynching?

No he didn't; he is a conservative citizen; conservatives AND citizens neither one condone any kind of "lynchings", public or otherwise.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 24):
No I wouldn't Because
1. Bush was not in the chain of command.
2 I am not a racist that thinks of lynching in conjunction with the president of the United States.
3.. Because unlike the GOP . I love this country no matter who is in charge.
4. I also trust those in Government service that serve through different political leaders to do their jobs to the best of their ability.
5. I don't let anti american organizations like News corp and Fake news ruin my perception of America.

Your No.2 point is a futile attempt to associate "race", "high public office", and "personal opinion"; (which is disingenuous, and insulting)

Your No.3 is VERY "troubling"......as it happenes to be......totally UNTRUE ! You may "think" the GOP doesn't "love" this country, but you would be absolutely WRONG, and in stating that ridiculous opinion, you have also insulted ME !
(perhaps WE should have a contest to see which one loves our country the most ?) ( a duel at dawn, perhaps ? )

Let's just cut to the chase and say what's REALLY going on in this whole discussion; there are 36 replies so far; as far as I can tell, about 32 of those replies have been made by individuals not known for having "conservative leanings"

only ONE individual who DOES "admit" to conservative leanings (and using a lot of common sense and logic in so doing), is attempting to MAKE SENSE to individuals who have very little, (if any) (which most intelligent people would regard as a complete waste of otherwise valuable time.)

You constantly make "light" of the other person's opinions, while advancing ridiculous opinions of your own. Any truly objective person familiar with all of the individual "opinions" normally expressed, day in, day out, on this forum is by now completely convinced that liberal opinion outweighs conservative opinion by about 90% vs 10%; (with the 90% favoring liberal) That is a hard, cold FACT !

So using that criteria, 90% may really believe Hilary Clinton "looks good"; if that's your opinion, you're entitled to it!

If you EVER take a long, close look at her background, all the things she's done, (and is still doing), you would look very foolish still thinking that. Personally......I have old worn-out work boots in my shop that "look" MUCH better than Hillary; and that isn't even an "opinion".....that could be conclusively proven by putting them side by side, and taking a vote among people who are not blind.


The entire underlying reason for this whole issue is the pathetic failure of Hilary Clinton as SecState, and Obuma as POTUS, to provide adequate security for the individuals in the U.S. Consulate in Libya. They KNEW the situation, and they REFUSED to act on it; people's lives were lost as a result. Here's the REAL kicker; i reading all 36 replies on this thread, one would "assume" that Hillary Clinton and Obama are "allies" ! That they have the same "agenda" ! If you really believe that, I have a large bridge over the Hudson River I'll sell you cheap!

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 6):
"Domestic policy can only defeat us; foreign policy can kill us" ~John F. Kennedy

Until, of course, the Second Amendment allows for sales of more guns than we have people in the country. Then we have a situation where personal freedoms manage to get more Americans killed every month than we loose in combat.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
She knew of the security problems - the late ambassador pleaded personally to her, and she did nothing.

Actually there were several parts to the testimony that addresses this issue:

1. There are about 1.4 messages arriving at State every year.
2. By tradition most of these are addressed to SecState
3. Neither Sec Clinton, nor her predecessors sort through these every morning, personally handing them out for action.

Anyone who has worked in a military environment understands this.

Another critical issue is the reality that Ambassador Chris Stevens was one of the most knowledgeable Ambassadors we had in the region. He's actually was more informed than both Senators Rand & McCain combined. There is no way he would have been in Benghazi if he felt that there was an attack imminent.

Quoting dc863 (Reply 13):
Ah Hillary you moron, there is a difference and you dropped the ball getting 4 Americans murdered.

Let's remember that the FIRST person to look at was the Director of the CIA. Dr. Susan Rice received her talking points from the CIA and the Director was the Responsible Person for finalizing what goes to the White House.


Now WHO could that have been? Golly, gee, it was a 4 Star YoYo who was so overwhelmed with getting caught hiding his salami with his biographer that he couldn't do any better when it came to Benghazi

Yep, I'm talking about CIA Director David Petraeus. There was a time when the GOP would have had him fast tracked for a major political position. Then the 4 Star YoYo couldn't help himself (or his ego) and he starts making the beast with two backs with his (fairly ugly) biographer.

Then he got caught. And at the time of Benghazi the 4 Star YoYo was too busy running around trying to CYA and keep his job at the CIA.

It is pretty queer how the GOP has been very quiet about the 4 Star YoYo while being very vocal about Sec Clinton.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):

One of the big mistakes was to have UN Ambassador Rice put out the story of the deaths were the result of a protest.

Actually, no one in the Administration should have taken anything from the CIA during the upheaval in last weeks of the Petraeus Era. Harsh reality is that we do not know, even today, all the factors in play.

Conservatives love to make snide comments about the YouTube influence, but protests around the world were common because of that e video.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 16):
Because of her inaction..

I can go back to my first critical General Quarters in the Navy. Gulf of Tonkin and we have a very serious fire on board. My GQ was in CIC (below the waterline on the LONG BEACH) and for that fire all that we could do in that room was wait. Information from Damage Control would flow from the firefighters to DC's Office, then to the Captain (who was also in CIC). The Captain would then move that information up the chain of command where a lot of people were very interested in how we were doing.

It was impressive to me that the flow of information was upward. We didn't have CINCPACFLT calling to see how things were going.

There are reasons why people like CINCPACFLT and SECSTATE stand back and let information flow within the established framework of the government.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 16):
All she cares about is her image.

You obviously didn't see her outfit. Or hear her deliver responses.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
They knew AQ-affiliated terrorists were in the area in force months before the attack

So what else is new in the ME?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
They blamed Youtube for nearly 2 whole weeks.

And the Director of the CIA was?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I just don't think she is particularly competant, and is handicapped by her worldview, as is Obama

She is far more competent than those trying to attack her. That was clear.

As far as her worldview goes, it beats the hell out of the neo-cons who delivered a TEN YEAR WAR.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
They see the world as they want it to be, not as it is.

Again, there are no WMDs in Iraq.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
So once again, you are saying that you have no problem with the government lying to its people for political purposes.

I believe that the issue related to the bad talking points from the CIA is not that important - certainly not near as important as going after the SOBs who killed those 4 Americans,

The LIES and I still have problems with focus on the WMDs in Iraq and the "Urgent Need to Go To War" A 10 Year War.


User currently offlineeatmybologna From France, joined Apr 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 38):
And what is your proof?

I have no proof. But for just a minute, give me the benefit of doubt. Is it possible?

Please ask yourself the following?
1) Who appointed Chris Stevens? Answer .... Stevens answered to the the current W.H. Administration as he was appointing by them in June of 2012.

2) Was Turkey involved in the Benghazi attack? Answer.... Most likely, yes. Please read -> http://www.radicalislam.org/analysis...d-turkey-play-role-benghazi-attack

3) Were weapons transferred to Syrians from Benghazi ? Answer....Most likely, yes. Please read ->http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/25/was-syrian-weapons-shipment-factor-in-ambassadors-benghazi-visit/
Please read -> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2953578/posts

4) Why has it taken so long for Hillary to testify?

5) Why did the W.H. and Susan Rice claim blame to the You Tube video when they all testified that they knew it was a terrorist attack?

In regards to Benghazi, Susan Rice lied. She even admitted so.
Hillary is lying and covering.
Obama, the same.

In time, the truth will speak.

[Edited 2013-01-24 13:21:59]


Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 16):
They failed to act before and during the attack and then lied to cover it up afterwards.

How? Becuse Hillary didn't/couldn't read every single cable from every single CIA front and every single diplomatic outpost? Or, because the right-wing controlled House didn't allocate the funds?

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):
Your No.3 is VERY "troubling"......as it happenes to be......totally UNTRUE

Except it is very.... TRUE!!! When Obama won, BOTH TIMES by LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONAL means, so many people on the right who "love this country" showed their love and support for the United States by wanting to disband the Union. Those same people are constantly telling those of us who speak out against FOX, etc. we are un-American for "shutting out the opposing view points" but scoff when they are shown how much of the media is actually controlled by us America hating "liberals" who have never tried to shut down dissent as they have. The right loves and supports war and the troops. As long as their party is in control of the government. They love and support big government and huge deficits. As long as their party is in control.

Most of all, they hate anyone who questions FOX take on reality. It pains them because they don't want to think. They want to be told what to think and how to feel. Otherwise, they feel they are being attacked.

I have had some very informative exchanges on this forum with several who do not hold my political beliefs. I have much respect for them. Because they did not stoop to "yeah, well... you're stupid!" attacks. I am dissapointed in you, Geezer. I thought that was beneath you, too.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineeatmybologna From France, joined Apr 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1313 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 40):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 16):
They failed to act before and during the attack and then lied to cover it up afterwards.

How? Becuse Hillary didn't/couldn't read every single cable from every single CIA front and every single diplomatic outpost? Or, because the right-wing controlled House didn't allocate the funds?

Of course she could not read all mail. However, Libya was a hot spot that Clinton chose to ignore. Quoted from the article below..."Chris Stevens requested additional funding directly through the Department of State several times before the attacks."

Please read -> http://www.policymic.com/articles/24...ht-to-get-tough-on-hillary-clinton

Quoting seb146 (Reply 40):
The right loves and supports war and the troops.

First of all, can we just agree that we all love our country? The "Right" does not love war. The "Right" supports the troops because they risk their lives to protect our freedoms. Simple as that.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 40):
Most of all, they hate anyone who questions FOX take on reality. It pains them because they don't want to think. They want to be told what to think and how to feel. Otherwise, they feel they are being attacked.

I have had some very informative exchanges on this forum with several who do not hold my political beliefs. I have much respect for them. Because they did not stoop to "yeah, well... you're stupid!" attacks. I am dissapointed in you, Geezer. I thought that was beneath you, too.

Well, it's great that you respect others' opinions if they oppose yours. And it's nice that you claim not to call others "Stupid." But reading your contribution (above,) will you be disappointed in yourself once you realize that you just implied FOX viewers as stupid and people who cannot think for themselves?

[Edited 2013-01-24 14:19:54]


Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 39):
Most likely
Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 39):
Most likely

When you stack a bunch of "most likely"s together, you get a "not very likely." That is the problem with most conspiracy theories.

For example, you have 6 pieces that are 60% likely to happen... 60% is pretty good but the odds of them all happening are 60% ^ 6 = ~5%. And a lot of the time, one piece taken away destroys the whole theory



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinedc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1248 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
It is pretty queer how the GOP has been very quiet about the 4 Star YoYo while being very vocal about Sec Clinton.

Probably because he had nothing to do with the decision making. Hillary and the WH did. She screwed up big time. The fact remains that the Obama admin. has done what it does best and thrown her under the proverbial bus in order to insulate itself. She can forget about becoming Pres. after making her foolish "What difference does it make..." comment. She sank her legacy and future career with that one.


User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1238 times:

Quoting dc863 (Reply 43):
She sank her legacy and future career with that one.

Only among people who wouldn't have voted for her anyway. I see no particular problem with it. The full quote, which no one is repeating, also mentions "at this time" and I have to agree; the situation was called an "act of terror" less that 48 hours later, and we've figured out that the YouTube video wasn't the direct cause; all there is left to contest is the level of security at diplomatic posts (Clinton said she was implementing all recommendations) and the conservatives clinging to some theoretical conspiracy about lying for two weeks, which as far as I can tell is based on nothing more than highly negative assumptions. From the snippets I saw on the news, she was pretty reasonable with people who were asking halfway reasonable questions.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2128 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1232 times:

Quoting dc863 (Reply 43):
She sank her legacy and future career with that one.

In 2 years nobody will even remember this. Politicians have recovered from a lot worse.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8846 posts, RR: 10
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1229 times:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...led-in-the-line-of-duty-photos.php


Seven Ambassadors lost in the line of duty. These seven men are not the last to die. It is sometimes the nature of the job, to face danger. All this whipped up hysteria, all this phony outrage will not change the fact that sometimes they are in harms way. They take on the job, they know the risks. People die in the line of duty every day, whether military or civilian. It is unconscionable for the Republicans to try to assassinate the character of someone just because they may be running for office in the future. I am no great fan of Hillary, but this is boloney. What is the saying, "The fog of war" This is war, people die and for these sanctimonious fools to go on about this is typical of politicians. John McCain should know that better than any of them, people die, confusion reins, some are not saved, they die. He knows, he lived it. Shame on him. Rand Paul, screw the phony.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineSkyservice_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1412 posts, RR: 5
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1207 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):
Personally......I have old worn-out work boots in my shop that "look" MUCH better than Hillary; and that isn't even an "opinion".....that could be conclusively proven by putting them side by side, and taking a vote among people who are not blind.

And this has what to do with her role as SecState? Or is it just old school sexism and misogyny showing its ugly head? Her looks have no bearing on her ability to be SecState.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):
you have also insulted ME !

Hold on while I play the worlds smallest violin...   


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1204 times:

The 2 concerns I see are that we were lied to (which I could also see it being a communication failure, but I could see it as lying. I have no idea why they'd lie, the only reason to lie is the line about Al-Qaeda "not being completely defeated" which I never saw thrown around, I only saw GOP politicians saying the Dems were saying it) and the fact that an attack was known and they failed to act.

The second one could be incompetence, but it also could be the fact that calls for heightened security are requested all the time. I have never deployed, but know lots of people who have. Their commanders are always requesting this and that but do not always get what they want... not all requests can be met. That means, obviously, things will slip through the cracks--Benghazi being one of them.

Until I see something solid, I will maintain this position. I listen to the GOP on this issue, but they still haven't convinced me of anything sinister besides a bit of politics and the usual government incompetence.

I do not want to join the Iraq mantra, but I do find it ironic that a mistake or incompetence that led to 4 Americans dying is so terrible, but a war that lead to thousands of Americans dying and who knows how many Iraqis dying is 'eh, whatever.' I'm not saying we should bring Bush up for war crimes, I'm just saying that people need to realize mistakes (like Iraq, and like Benghazi) happen.

Tragically, 4 Americans died. But they were in a hostile, unstable country. These things are to be expected...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8846 posts, RR: 10
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week ago) and read 1194 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 48):
I do not want to join the Iraq mantra, but I do find it ironic that a mistake or incompetence that led to 4 Americans dying is so terrible, but a war that lead to thousands of Americans dying and who knows how many Iraqis dying is 'eh, whatever.' I'm not saying we should bring Bush up for war crimes, I'm just saying that people need to realize mistakes (like Iraq, and like Benghazi) happen.

Tragically, 4 Americans died. But they were in a hostile, unstable country. These things are to be expected...

Well said, mistakes do happen, people die. It has happened, will happen, and continue to happen no matter who is in power in DC. " to err is human"



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1167 times:

Quoting Skyservice_330 (Reply 47):
And this has what to do with her role as SecState? Or is it just old school sexism and misogyny showing its ugly head? Her looks have no bearing on her ability to be SecState.

Well, at least she doesn't "look" all that much worse than old Madelene Notsobright. How much do YOU really know about Hilary Clinton ? So now because I mention that Hilary looks worse than my old work boots, I'm suddenly accused of being a "misogynist" am I ? And I'm trying to "rear" my ugly head, am I ? Let me ask YOU something; how did YOU get to be such an "expert" on politics in the U.S. when you aren't even a citizen here ? I have a feeling that if you had to take a test on Hilary's background, you would probably fail it miserably. Then again, for a Canadian citizen I don't suppose it would trouble you all that much to hear about "the REAL Hilary Clinton";

Let me point something out for you that you may not be aware of; there's a very big industry in Canada that makes a lot of money for Canadians, and at the same time, It helps a lot of Americans; (and I'm just guessing that you probably don't even know what I'm talking about ); being a Canadian citizen, (which I'm assuming you are, due to your flag), I'm sure you are aware that there are thousands of your fellow Canadian citizens crossing the border into the U.S. every day to get healthcare that they would otherwise be obliged to wait years for, if they were to stay and wait their "turn" in Canada; and that's just fine with me, as I'm all for helping my neighbors, any time I can; our American doctors feel the same way I do; I know, because I've discussed it with a few of them. But what you may very well not be aware of is, there is literally billions of American dollars, leaving here, and going to Canada every year to purchase prescription drug generic equivalents, which are not even made in the U.S., because of some "law" that was passed at the "insistence" of the drug companies lobby.

You need to stop and think about what I just said; it helps many people in BOTH our countries; It's just one of the many reasons why the U.S. and Canada have been able to enjoy such amicable relations for so many years now; and I really think it behooves everyone, on both sides of our border, to continue to help one another, rather than attempting to "meddle" in each other political affairs; (which some would assume that you may be trying to do right now.)

[quote=Skyservice_330,reply=47] Her looks have no bearing on her ability to be SecState.

That's just your opinion, and you're entitled to it. and, if that was her only shortcoming, I may not even have said it; but I can assure you, her "looks" is a LONG way from being her biggest shortcoming; Hilary has MUCH bigger "skeletons in her closet" than he dowdy looks. (which I should add, are all a matter of public record, and are available to anyone interested in knowing the truth about her, which you apparently are uninterested in.)

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1163 times:

You still haven't established how her looks are relevant to anything, and that's why it's sexism.

User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1149 times:

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 41):
will you be disappointed in yourself once you realize that you just implied FOX viewers as stupid and people who cannot think for themselves?

Yes. There are right-wing supporters who look at both sides and make their own decisions to support the right. I have nothing but respect for them, even if I don't agree with them. However, there are those who simply gather information from FOX, NewsMax, Limbaugh, etc. who say "liberal media said...." and scream about the "damn liberals destroying the country" and so forth. That is where that comes from. Not a broad brush like some think I am painting with. I am speaking directly to those who refuse to do research.

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 41):
Libya was a hot spot that Clinton chose to ignore

So, since there is nothing we can see she is doing with Iran, North Korea, Egypt, Mali, Pakistan, Syria, she is choosing to ignore them?

Quoting eatmybologna (Reply 41):
First of all, can we just agree that we all love our country?

I would love too. But, the FOX/Limbaugh crowd are told they are the only ones who love this country and no one will convince them otherwise.

Another thing I don't understand: those same people are all about dissent (now that Obama has been re-elected) but when anyone dissents against them, those are the people who are un-patriotic. How does that work?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):
So is YOUR logic !

My logic is much clearer than yours, and at least I don't use the quote button to hide stupid statements.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):
Now you are "sick and tired"....( "tin foilded folks" ???) (must be some new kind of "folks") "lost all dignity" ? in YOUR "opinion".......NOT mine ! (your "folks" are the ones who are lacking "dignity"; (IMO) (which differs 180 from "yours")

Nah, I am based in reality. I still have dignity. I don't get spoon fed from the fake news sites and then pass it off as a catastrophe on airliners.net.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):
I too have a problem; with people spewing "liberal opinion as if it were the truth, (which it clearly isn't) you are making a "clever" (in your opinion) attempt to dis-credit Fox News, and trying to intimate that it is dis-honest (which it isn't) like "The Daily Kos".....which is dishonest.

I am not spewing liberal opinion, I am calling bullshit for what it is.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):

Your No.2 point is a futile attempt to associate "race", "high public office", and "personal opinion"; (which is disingenuous, and insulting)

I am not the one that brought up lynching and high public office. Go reread the thread .

Quoting Geezer (Reply 37):

You constantly make "light" of the other person's opinions, while advancing ridiculous opinions of your own. Any truly objective person familiar with all of the individual "opinions" normally expressed, day in, day out, on this forum is by now completely convinced that liberal opinion outweighs conservative opinion by about 90% vs 10%; (with the 90% favoring liberal) That is a hard, cold FACT

No the cold hard fact is that this thread only exists because a bunch of political hacks did a job on the administration for politcial points. This issue only went to a committe because Rand Paul and John McCain were called to the mats by a bunch of bad coverage of the issue by right wing nutcases. THat's the cold hard truth. The original "Fake News" expose was a peice of garbage. THe article asked where the backup was and then mentions that one of the four people killed arrived from Tripoli. The GOP has never been concerned with the truth in this issue. Just with political points.
If the GOP really loved this country they would have said that things could have gone better in terms of security at that site and looked into why it didn't . Instead they played the politcal pointing game and manufactured a crisis to score points.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2576 posts, RR: 7
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1144 times:

As I said before, Hillary was very impressive.

Hopefully she can kick some Teabagger bootay in 2016.


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