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Petition To Change US Organ Donation System  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1879 times:

My son (14 months old) received a heart transplant just over a year ago. Since then, I have seen what other families have had to go through as well. I think that the United States should adopt an opt-out system (rather than opt-in) to encourage donation. In countries such as Austria, where it is solely the choice of the candidate, rates are almost 100%.

As such, I have created a petition on WhiteHouse.gov to this effect.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...tem-be-opt-out-rather-opt/B04YdczT


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Well the fact that the family can disregard the choice of the potential donor is outrageous for sure.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

Well without knowing too much info, I agree on the opt out, but I don't think it should be really hidden. It should be up front: do you want to opt out? Not that you are automatically enrolled and you have to jump through hoops and other hidden stuff to opt out


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I don't think it should be really hidden. It should be up front: do you want to opt out? Not that you are automatically enrolled and you have to jump through hoops and other hidden stuff to opt out

Agreed. Part of making people more comfortable with it would be knowing that they have the choice.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8760 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Excellent idea, the same thing needs to happen in my country. I've had a donor card for years and wish I didn't need to carry one in the first place.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
jump through hoops and other hidden stuff to opt out

No need for hoops or anything; if you wish to opt out, you have that noted on e.g. your driving licence or passport. Until such time as the document is altered, you carry a standardised paper that you can download, print and sign without supervision or offical confirmation.

[Edited 2013-01-23 17:42:06]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 4):
Excellent idea, the same thing needs to happen in my country. I've had a donor card for years and wish I didn't need to carry one in the first place.

The opt-in rate in Germany is apparently around 12%. In Austria (which is opt-out), the opt-out rate is less than 1%.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently onlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3677 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

I agree with such a move but I would like to see people being informed about it.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
In Austria (which is opt-out), the opt-out rate is less than 1%.

Could that be because most are not even aware? In Greece a similar law comes to effect this year but most haven't even heard about it. I think there should be a formal campaign pointing out such laws if they exist, since they involve each one of us and our bodies.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33270 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Absolutely not. People's bodies, people's choice. It needs to remain opt-in.

Some people might be very misinformed/ignorant if it becomes opt-in. So we are supposed to essentially trick them into becoming organ donors when they don't want to? No.

I sympathaize with the problems you and others have gone through, but it's not fair to take advantage of an individual's ignorance to have them donate their organs when many people would not feel comfortable doing so. That's essentially what opt-out means.

[Edited 2013-01-24 11:43:18]


a.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
I think that the United States should adopt an opt-out system

Not possible without a Constitutional amendment.

The state has no authority to seize anything without either probable cause or a warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause that a crime has been committed. This includes the body and body parts of deceased persons, which become the property of the next of kin (unless none can be located, process which requires far more time than organ viability).



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineroswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 803 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Allow families of organ donors to be compensated and you will have more organs for donation. Doctors, nurses, hospitals and insurance companies profit from donation, why not the donor or their family?

User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6162 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1685 times:
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Quoting roswell41 (Reply 9):
Allow families of organ donors to be compensated and you will have more organs for donation. Doctors, nurses, hospitals and insurance companies profit from donation, why not the donor or their family?

I never thought about it before, but you're right. The only reason the donor gives it away for free is because they can't argue for it.

I never figured why anyone wouldn't want to donate their organs. I don't need my guts after I'm dead. I also believe that my soul will go to heaven and I don't need my guts for that either. I don't think anyone would want my used liver though.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 9):
Allow families of organ donors to be compensated and you will have more organs for donation. Doctors, nurses, hospitals and insurance companies profit from donation, why not the donor or their family?


That's a slippery slope. But I guess in the case of the US the Pandora's box is already wide open with women selling their eggs/uterus/children, men selling their sperm, etc.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1661 times:

The major problem in my mind is getting families who are going through the total horror of a loved one on life support being asked for a donation. That is brutal on everyone. I'd go with your approach if it saves the difficulty of that position.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is identifying medical conditions that would make some people's donations not acceptable. I just had a tumor removed from my rt kidney - a clear call carcinoma. That puts a burden on me to determine if my organs are "safe". Same with blood donations - when is it safe to return, or will it ever be?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

My body my rules... Everything goes with me.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5770 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
My body my rules... Everything goes with me.

Why?

It is not your body at that time because you are no longer a sentient being. It might be your families but it most certainly is not "yours". You're dead.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):
Absolutely not. People's bodies, people's choice. It needs to remain opt-in.

  

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
It is not your body at that time because you are no longer a sentient being. It might be your families but it most certainly is not "yours". You're dead.

Same issue with inheritance. It belongs to you, and as something's owner you get to be the final arbiter of how it will be disposed upon your death. I don't see how one's body is any different than money, stock, or real estate.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5770 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Same issue with inheritance. It belongs to you, and as something's owner you get to be the final arbiter of how it will be disposed upon your death. I don't see how one's body is any different than money, stock, or real estate.

Yes, I understand but honestly it isn't "yours" at that point. Even when you direct that your family gets your stuff ultimately they can do with it what they wish (provided certain other aspects inheritance are not instituted via a trust etc that survives after your death).

Your family very much can decide for you to donate your organs. Seriously, you ain't you anymore.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1627 times:

Tugger.

I have no intention of leaving serviceable parts anyway. There here for my enjoyment and i am going to do that.

I share the same view as Mr. Bill Engvall who said, " When i die and go to meet my maker i dont want people to look in and say, he looks great..........No I want them to look in and say, JEEESUS!!! He partied



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5770 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 17):
I have no intention of leaving serviceable parts anyway. There here for my enjoyment and i am going to do that.

I share the same view as Mr. Bill Engvall who said, " When i die and go to meet my maker i dont want people to look in and say, he looks great..........No I want them to look in and say, JEEESUS!!! He partied

  Yes, of course, if you can live life (and die) that way, why not? And I am glad you did not take offense to my comment. It really was an honest question because I don't actually care what happens to my body if I am dead.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

There are alo people who believe in reincarnation and also believe you will have problems with those organs that are donated in this life in the bext one.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3839 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):
Absolutely not. People's bodies, people's choice. It needs to remain opt-in.

No one is seeking to revoke your right to don your organs or not.

You would just have to choose not to instead of choosing to.
I see nothing wrong with that, as long as the choice is made evident and clear to all, and that people who aren't able to understand the consequences of that choice (mental illness or other) should remain 'out'.

It's just a matter of educating the 'masses' and putting out enough com, possibly as early as school.

It would make a huge difference in the number of organs available and lives saved.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Same issue with inheritance.

It's NOT the same as inheritance. Inheritance can be passed to your descendants, family, loved ones, so that they can enjoy a better life.
Your organs serve you no purpose after your death. They just rot with the rest of your body.

If you died and had no one to give the money to, would you have it buried with you?



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Same issue with inheritance. It belongs to you, and as something's owner you get to be the final arbiter of how it will be disposed upon your death. I don't see how one's body is any different than money, stock, or real estate.

Well I believe the US has inheritance taxes. So parts of your belongings do not go where you choose.

Here if you have children they'll get most of the inheritance (less taxes) no matter what you wish, there is no way to favor one over the others or to give it all to somebody else or a charity.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1594 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 16):
Yes, I understand but honestly it isn't "yours" at that point.

Yes it is. It belongs to me and I will decide what should be done with it. The implication of such a policy, as with an inheritance tax, is very scary because it essentially makes my body, like money, a community asset that I simply borrow for a while and "society" gets to trump my freedom to do what I wish with assets that I own.

Quoting tugger (Reply 16):
Even when you direct that your family gets your stuff ultimately they can do with it what they wish

Because it is then theirs...if I give it to them. And of course I can always give it to them with conditions. If I don't, they get no control.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 20):
It's NOT the same as inheritance.

Yes it is. It's my stuff, and I'll decide what happens to it when I die.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 20):
They just rot with the rest of your body.

If that's what I want to happen they will. If not, then something else will happen.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 20):
If you died and had no one to give the money to, would you have it buried with you?

I'd do whatever I damn well want with it. It's mine.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 21):
Well I believe the US has inheritance taxes.

Which is basically just institutionalized theft and should be abolished immediately. It survives because dead people can't vote.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 21):
Here if you have children they'll get most of the inheritance (less taxes) no matter what you wish, there is no way to favor one over the others or to give it all to somebody else or a charity.

To me that is an unconscionable breach of freedom.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3839 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
I'd do whatever I damn well want with it. It's mine.

Impressive display of selfishness, if I may...

Fortunately, it wouldn't take a very large proportion of the population to stay on the donor list to make a huge difference. I believe most potential donors do not get on the list because of the lack of awareness, information, education, time, or they simply don't think about it.

Such a measure would essentially solve that problem, while allowing those who want to have an anatomically correct cadaver to easily be able to.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20333 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1568 times:

As long as opt-out is easy, it should be the system.

And it wouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment. Just do it as part of registering for a driver's license. If you want to opt out, check the (well-marked and obvious) box. You can't argue that it puts an unnecessary burden on objectors to check a box.


25 Pyrex : No, they do not - it involves each one of us and our corpses... Shhh, don't give them any ideas or the Democrats will try to create an estate tax for
26 Maverick623 : That's not how it works here. Any action relating to "giving up" anything must either be explicitly voluntary, or ordered by a court based on probabl
27 DocLightning : Not only that, but they are not money. They cannot just be bequeathed and used by anyone in the way that money can. An organ is only useful to a pati
28 BMI727 : It's mine. I'll do what I want, that's hardly unreasonable. If using drivers' licenses makes it too difficult to vote then it should also make it too
29 Post contains images fr8mech : What about all those poor folks that don't or can't get a drivers' license or ID? I mean, the country is full of those folks, especially among minori
30 lewis : Technicality. A corpse is still a body. I am not sure how it technically works and if it depends on the organ that is targeted for harvesting, but ho
31 BMI727 : The plan is an obvious ploy to harvest organs from minorities, the poor, and the disabled.
32 darthluke12694 : I'll just add my 2 cents. I believe it should be an opt-out system, as long as it's easy. Personally, I think everyone should be on the list. If you'r
33 lewis : It is similar to blood donations, no harm done to the donor and a lot of countries experience shortage. Yet, not too many people donate blood which i
34 Maverick623 : In all except two states (NY and NJ), legal death is defined (roughly) as the complete and irreversible cessation of electrical activity in the brain
35 LTBEWR : In the USA, our concepts of freedom of religion and the cultures of many here as well as pompus 'religious' politicans means you can only have an 'opt
36 Aesma : I thought it was the exact opposite. You are only given a choice when getting an ID, so only people with IDs would "get into the program". The cynic
37 Post contains images Maverick623 : Ah, I see it now. Even still, it would have to be an opt-in program, as you are essentially making a legal declaration of will, which is something th
38 flipdewaf : Hang on... where has anyone suggested otehrwise? Hang on... where has anyone suggested otehrwise? Very much agreed. If he was dead and not ticked a b
39 Maverick623 : Before you get all smart aleck-y, why don't you go back and read exactly which parts of the post were quoted. We were referring to money. Nice job pu
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