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Are The Scots Bigots?  
User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

I was flipping through the International Express and this artcile caoght my attention.So before I start burning some kilts what do the Scots and English in Britain say about it.

Scots should rise above this bigotry

On the moring of the England-Argentina game, I was greeted by a fellow Scot with: "So you'll be putting on your Argentina shirt later?" The assumption that I(the writer is Scottish) would rather support a South American team, even one that had invaded the Falklands, than Scotlands closest neighbours.

The sort of prejudice coming out of the mouths of Scots during the World Cup finals, of which this was a mild example, makes me ashamed of my roots. The better England do, the more ferocious the Scottish opposition. Some bigoted newpapers north of the border have been running headlines along the theme that hell will have to freeze over before Scotland supports England.

One gave Englands win over Denmark barely a mention. Beofre the Argentina game, another ran the headline "So who are you going to support?" above photos of a stunning female model in the blue and white colours of Argentina next to a fat, bald man with a St Georges scross tattooed over his face.

Some Scots try to excuse this as nothing more than well-worn banter. There is an old joke north of the border that goes: "We are not biased against the English; we dont care who beats them." But it goes much deeper than that and reflects a dangerous undercurrent of anti-English sentiment among a nation that should be above such pettiness.

Since living in England I have learnt that to the English this negative attitude from their neighbours is like water of a ducks back. It is as relavent to anyone south of Carlisle as the Scottish team is to the world cup.The "Auld enemy' to the English in football terms are Germany and Argentina not non-qualifiers Scotland.There have alreaduy been reports of English school boys attending Scottish schools have been beaten up and bullied and anyone displying a southern English accent on the street might find himself the subject of abuse.

Such xenophobia is only damaging the Scots and show them to be the bigoted and inward looking nation that they otherewise try desperatly to prove their not.

It is time we matured and realised that Scotland will never be the self-confindent nation it wants to be as long as Scots continue to define themselves by the petty immature anti-englishness.

A smart new parliament building will shortly open in Edinburgh but until it can cheer on England in a aporting tronament without choking, Scotland will always live in its neighbours shadow on and off the pitch.


Well what to you guys think?

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePaulc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 964 times:

totally agree with your post - from an Englishman, if I were watching Scotland play against anybody other than England then I would hope they would win - obviously I would support England if playing them. I suspect however many will now be cheering for Scotlands opposition as a result of the anti English views that surfaced during the world cup. It is a shame that the mutual support is only a one way street in this regard.


English First, British Second, european Never!
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 952 times:

G-KIRAN

What do you think the response would be if you replaced "Scots" with "Americans" on the above title? I think they'd be upset. Rightly so.

I'm afraid you have fallen for so much media hype which I and most other Scots, personally find to be offensive.

Scots and English will always have a friendly needle when it comes to football, and long may it continue because its so much fun. Like other countries do. Like the Austrian attitude to Germany or the Danes to Sweden. And weren't those Mexicans mad about being beaten by the USA?

Like when Brazil and Germany qualified for the final, English people were open about their support for Brazil (1966, 5-1 and all that), even to the extent of one TV commentator coming out with the cracking line "so its Brazil v Germany then - who will YOU be supporting" or words to that effect. And didn't I see London full of Brazil shirts that day? Wonder why. The point is that people can support whoever they like.

Personally, I can say that I have not experienced any undercurrent of anti-Englishness in Scotland, other than the one which certain sections of the media wold like to invent. Inevitably, there are probably a few idiots, but we all have them and they generally get told to take a hike.

Anyway, England did well in the World Cup, and were ultimately beaten by a better team.

Cheers

Scotty


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 947 times:

Considering the fuss that England made about winning the 1966 World Cup (they STILL go on about it!!) we would never have heard the last of it if they had won this one.

The 'auld enemy' is still very much seen as that - one SNP MSP, Andrew Wilson, came in for a huge amount of grief when he suggested that Scots should support England. Actually, as fellow Celts, the Scots would (and did) support Eire first.

That said, the Tartan Army is considerably better behaved than their English counterparts and we are welcomed around the world ... long may it continue!

Still, we're taking over the current government nicely ... all we need now is the money the Sassenachs stole off us for our oil!  Big grin Big grin


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 942 times:
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Ah yes, the Tartan Army who started "renovating" Wembley some 25 years before the demolition teams were needed  Big grin

David


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 928 times:

You do find genuine bigots - just as you do anywhere - but most Scots are just bantering, as indeed GKirk and Scotty have on here on many an occasion. Besides, it is hardly surprising that Scotland views its bigger, more populous neighbour in this way. To put it another way, if the English really felt hated by the Scots, I very much doubt it would be "water off a duck's back".




She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineToady From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 920 times:

"...the Tartan Army is considerably better behaved than their English counterparts and we are welcomed around the world... "
Shame they don't get as many opportunities to travel the world as the English do  Smile


I fully understand why the Scots don't want England to do well; the better England do, the wider the gap between the 2 teams becomes. Each England win widens and reinforces the gulf between the 2 countries.
England started the tournament twice as good as non-qualifying Scotland. After the success of the first round, England were 3 times better. After the Denmark game they were 4 times better.
It's quite natural that Scots didn't want it proven that England are 5 times better than Scotland and so they cheered for Brazil.
See? It's not done out of hate for the English, but simply for self pride.


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 915 times:

Having lived in scotland in Banchory, Kincardineshire I can honestly say that some scots are bigoted in relation to england, its dressed up sometimes as 'banter' yet it goes much further, as someone with an english accent i was regularly treated to scotlands wonderful 'hospitality' on some occasions, if scotland wants to be in the 21th century it will pull its head out of the sands.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 890 times:

Football - current FIFA ratings, England 8th in the world, Scotland 55th or somewhere like that. There has never been such a difference and we're mad about it - not because England are 8th but because its bloody embarrasing to be further down the ratings than Iceland and the Ivory Coast!!

Go Canada - stop messing around and tell us why you think this? Or maybe you just cant understand the difference between banter and being serious. Yeah, you will get the p...s taken out of you in Scotland for having an English accent. And I got it as well for having a Scots one when I lived in Berkshire, England, for two years, and got called "Jock" but it was never serious, I didnt take it badly (preferring instead to use it as a means of differentiating myself from everyone else) and I got on fine with the locals. So it cuts both ways, but believe me, it aint serious man, especially in somewhere in the sticks like Banchory.

Alternatively, maybe you're just obnoxious anyway (I am specualting here so dont get all huffy cos I really dont know what you're like) in which case, you'd get flack for just being obnoxious. And the English dont have a monopoly on obnoxious, I can think of quite a few of my fellow Scots whom I'd gladly trade for some decent folk, no matter where they come from.


Cheers

Scotty


User currently offlineAlaska739 From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 889 times:

Is it biggoted to run around calling everyone bigots? I'd say so.


north dakota sucks.
User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2731 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 882 times:

Go canada, if some foreigner came to your country and took all the decent jobs, to say nothing of the only 3 women with their own teeth, wouldn't you be a bit pissed of as well ?

Ah the jocks. Can't cook for shit nor play a ball game to save their lives but man do they make THE best beer in the world.



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24907 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 878 times:

Are the English bigots?
Are the Americans bigots?

Well, if you tell your stupid media down south to shut the hell up about 1966, then maybe we wouldnt feel as much hatred.  Big thumbs up
Anyway, is there some Rule for the Scottish to support the English? Didnt think so.
It just happens that we always seem to support the team that England are playing against, yet despite me being a Rangers fan (not one of the bigots, I might add, that wear the England tops,) I was hoping that Ireland would do well in the World Cup.

Oh yeah, what about the Bradford racial attacks, so that means if Scots are bigots then the English are racist also then  Angry

So here's what the English can do:
1. Stop living in the past eg 1966,Munich etc
2. Treat everyone equally
3. Stop the racist attacks
4. Stop being fooled by your media
5. Eat haggis  Big thumbs up
6. Produce more good looking girls  Big thumbs up
7. Learn how to drink alcohol in quantities of more than 2 pints of lager without starting a fight by throwing a table at someone or smashing someone over the head with a chair.

Anyway, I'll be back later to see the response to my post  Big thumbs up
And as Banco says, its all good natured, except when it comes to the English media.
Heheheh.....
 Laugh out loud



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 877 times:

The main reason why I posted this was because it was written by a Scottish person(not English) and I wanted to see what other people think about Scottish writers views.Also Scotty, I did not state what I felt about it,so you cant say I have been caught in some media hype.I think that calling the Scots bigots is a bit out of order,considering that the English also like to crack jokes at Jerry.

User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24907 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 874 times:

Perhaps this "Scottish" writer is an Englishman pretending to be Scottish???

Anyway, to add to my points before....the English are jealous of the Scottish anyway.

















Because we throw the best parties ever seen  Big thumbs up



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 867 times:

The Scots just have an inferiority complex. Lets face it, when people say UK, they think mostly of England anyway, so it's just the Scots' way of throwing their toys out of the pram and trying to get noticed for something!

I think the majority of English just view these Scottish tantrums as like a rather irritationg fly - annoying yes but ultimately harmless  Big thumbs up



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 864 times:

From today's Scotsman: http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/s2.cfm?id=720952002

ALEX SALMOND
Leader of the Scottish National Party’s Westminster Group

"Scots have long been known as an inventive nation. But to a far greater extent that most of us realise, one of the greatest Scottish inventions of all is the United States of America.

The founding principles of the State, the concepts that still hold that great but disparate nation together - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - were forged in the fire of Scottish intellect. Nine of the first signatories of the independence declaration were Scots, and 15 American Presidents have been of Scots or Scots/Irish decent.

Therefore, whatever criticisms we may have of the US administration’s foreign policy, or whatever faults we see in the structure of corporate America, Scots should come to this birthday party as old friends.

But America is more than the sum of all its peoples. America is an idea, and that democratic ideal was pioneered under Scottish influence."


User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 855 times:

GKirk,
I think that Scottish also live in the past. Flower of Scotland being a classic example. But you are right 1966 is a long time ago.

I think what didn't help the image about the Scots was the amount of people who bought Argentinian and Brasil shirts. That's a lot of money to spend on 'banter'.

My impression is that it is more than just about football. I think it'll be the start of an independence campaign. For years (always?) it has been Scotland first and then Britain. With the English starting to recognise their own identity I can see people like the SNP pushing for an independent company. Indifference down south will probably make it easier. It will probably happen too but I think that it'll be a mistake as we are probably stronger together.

By the way a haggis supper after a night on the beer was always a treat when I lived up there.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 854 times:

I think 'bigotry' is the wrong word when it comes to nationalistic contempt; especially when crying about sports (or fuuüuüütball, anyway). Scots and Brits should just hug and make up. The Irish think you're both assholes anyway.

And leave the Americans out of this one! To us, you're all three the same damn thing. You all look AND sound alike.

We say: I hope you don't get pissed when your best friend gets sacked.
You think we mean: I hope you don't get drunk when your best friend gets fired.
We really mean: I hope you don't get mad when your best friend gets tackled by the linebacker as he's rolling out on a third and long.
My point? None (it wasn't worth its own thread)

So kiss the guy in the dress already and have a beer to celebrate your favorite child moving out of the house 226 years ago and going on her own.  Big thumbs up



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 850 times:

I disagree re 'Flower of Scotland', Saintsman - here's the full song.

O Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
Your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

The Hills are bare now,
And Autumn leaves
lie thick and still,
O'er land that is lost now,
Which those so dearly held,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

Those days are past now,
And in the past
they must remain,
But we can still rise now,
And be the nation again,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.


0 Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

I've highlighted the verse that says that we should be forward thinking and move on from the past.


User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 840 times:

Oh yeah, what about the Bradford racial attacks, so that means if Scots are bigots then the English are racist also then
All I can say is that in my experience(non-bradford) I have never had anyone call me "blackie","wog" or "paki" and come to think of it I have more racism thrown at me in asia than I ever got in England.Also Gkirk there are hardly any non-white people in Scotland.


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 838 times:

Hmmm, G-KIRAN you've obviously never been to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen or even Dundee!  Big grin

User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 834 times:

SAS23,

Isn't the song about wanting what you once were?

As for forward thinking and moving on from the past. Wise words indeed.


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 831 times:

Saintsman - yes, proud and independent: ...But we can still rise now,
And be the nation again...



User currently offlineBCal DC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 722 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 822 times:

Scots and Brits should just hug and make up. The Irish think you're both assholes anyway.

Oh dear... yet again, johnny foreigner making that classic mistake yet again... Scots ARE Brits. I think you may have meant English.

Anyway, walking the streets of England, its nice to see a bit of English pride for a change, with the Cross of St George being flown from windows, cars and gardens everywhere you go. 90% of houses in my village (which isn't saying much I do confess, but better than nothing) are flying the Cross of St George, and it looks fantastic!  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 811 times:

Yes.





































Oh, Scotty is ok though  Big grin.


Oh yeah, what about the Bradford racial attacks, so that means if Scots are bigots then the English are racist also then

Bradford Racial attacks? I think it was more like the coloured population causing the majority of the violence, not the white....

GKirk - how many black people go to your uni? I think at Bristol its something like a ratio of 1 in 7, but other places probably a higher ratio.


25 JetService : "Scots are Brits" Now you're getting it! We are all brothers and sisters! Scots are Brits are Americans are Australians are.... Well done! Well done!
26 Post contains images G-KIRAN : Hmmm, G-KIRAN you've obviously never been to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen or even Dundee! Nope I have not been to the above places,but most of the eth
27 Scotty : Saintsman You say "I think it'll be the start of an independence campaign. For years (always?) it has been Scotland first and then Britain. With the E
28 Post contains images GKirk : Jetservice, yer talking gibberish. What are you on about? Silly American EGGD, I go to university? At my COLLEGE, there is probably a ratio of about 5
29 EGGD : College/University, whats the difference? :P
30 JetService : "What the hell are you on about??? I'm coming round to your house now to give you a Govan kiss" Bring Beer!!!!!!! "Jetservice, yer talking gibberish.
31 Bmi330 : Lets get some facts straight hear people jetservice its not a goven kiss its a Glasgow kiss maybe watchen to much rab c nesbitt WE want england to get
32 JetService : "jetservice its not a goven kiss its a Glasgow kiss maybe watchen to much rab c nesbitt WE want england to get beat because of the media not the peopl
33 Scotty : JetService er...its not a beer. Tastes more like..well like having lots of blood running down your face into your mouth. More a kind of physical assau
34 SAS23 : bmi330 - for goodness sake, either learn to spell properly or use the spell checker! Here at PIK I can't see Arran, so that means that it's going to r
35 Scotty : SAS23 Still sunny in the East!! Scotty
36 SAS23 : It's brightened up a wee bit now ... will be over in EDI later today. Where are you?
37 Saintsman : Isn't the difference between summer and winter in Scotland the fact that the rain's warmer in summer? By the way, it's crap down in Bournemouth too to
38 Post contains images GKirk : Sunny with broken cloud in Dumfries and Galloway today
39 Scotty : In Edinburgh today - sunny Auld Reekie Saintsman, we get three months of wind and rain and then there's winter Scotty
40 Post contains images G-KIRAN : 4.Like g-kiran don't slag or pass judgment on the creates country on earth whith out coming hear first and bye the way the best selling shirt in SCOTL
41 Scotty : So why did you ask the question in the first place then, if it makes you so upset?? Scotty
42 Bmi330 : You sure its called a goven kiss a stay in Glasgow and a never heard anyone call it goven kiss lol mabe they call it that in the east end they experin
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