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France 'Totally Bankrupt' Says Labour Minister  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

France has turned into a fiscal nightmare for everyone except those who live on benefits, and they keep changing the laws thus making any financial planning an impossibility.

Daily Telegraph:

France 'totally bankrupt', says labour minister Michel Sapin

France's labour minister sent the country into a state of shock on Monday after he described the nation as “totally bankrupt”.
Michel Sapin made the gaffe in a radio interview, which left French President Francois Hollande battling to undo the potential reputational damage.
“There is a state but it is a totally bankrupt state,” Mr Sapin said. “That is why we had to put a deficit reduction plan in place, and nothing should make us turn away from that objective.”
read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-labour-minister-Michel-Sapin.html


Daily Mail

France is 'totally bankrupt', jobs minister admits as concerns grow over Hollande's tax-and-spend policies

Minister Michel Sapin said: 'There is a state but it's a totally bankrupt state'
Unemployment and living costs have spiralled since party came to power
President trying to revive economy through cutting spending by £51billion
Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici said Mr Sapin's comments were 'inappropriate' and tried to blame Nicolas Sarkozy's government
An online poll in Le Figaro newspaper showed that 80.5 per cent of readers agreed that France is bankrupt

read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Hollandes-tax-spend-policies.html

The Independent

'France is totally bankrupt': French employment minister Michel Sapin embarrasses President Francois Hollande with shocking statement on state of the country's economy

read more:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-the-countrys-economy-8471077.html


Daily Express:

FRANCE IS 'TOTALLY BANKRUPT' HOLLANDE SHATTERED AS MINISTER REVEALS STATE OF ECONOMY
FRANCOIS Hollande was left picking up the pieces after France was sent into a state of shock as his labour minister described the nation as "totally bankrutpt.

read more:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/374185


The Socialist government's tax-and-spend policies are not working. President Francois Hollande's handling of the economy and the deficit reduction plan don't seem to be a viable solution. France’s richest are leaving the country as the Socialist government sets new 75% tax on the millionaires.

 Wow!      


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2752 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
France has turned into a fiscal nightmare for everyone except those who live on benefits

How many people actually are on benefits?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
The Socialist government's tax-and-spend policies are not working

Eventually you run out of other people's money.

I know their auto industry isn't doing well. I have been hearing about that here in Detroit.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
France’s richest are leaving the country as the Socialist government sets new 75% tax on the millionaires.

What a racket, I'd leave too. I would put a 75% tax on the poor, they usually use most of the services that drain the government. Start cutting what you hand out and I bet a lot of people would get off their butt or leave the country and go mooch someplace else.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6617 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

This is making more ruckus in the UK than in France, it seems. I guess they still hope we'll collapse, a good way to not look at their own problems.

The last person to say this was prime minister François Fillon in 2007. Since then, and under his watch until last may, the debt has grown, taxes were first lowered then increased. Nothing has significantly changed with Hollande, Fillon was finally righting the budget and Hollande continued to do so, every serious organization recognize that (IMF, EU...).

In the meantime the debt in many countries has risen more, taxes have risen too, pensions and benefits have been cut (in France they have risen). So all in all France's relative situation has actually improved ! In fact even Sarkozy was saying so during his campaign (always saying to look at Spain and Italy for comparison's sake).



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):

The Socialist government's tax-and-spend policies are not working

I will try and act surprised.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Socialist government sets new 75% tax on the millionaires.


A quick check on Wiki says France has 280,000 millionaires so I assume accumulated wealth not per year income and a population of 65M. Even with those numbers that is expecting .004% of the population to carry a 75% tax load.

So if you were a millionaire and made a 1M per year and moved to a country with say a 50% tax rate then you would have $250,000.00 savings per year just to go back and visit France.   

Okie


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2681 times:
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Quoting okie (Reply 3):
A quick check on Wiki says France has 280,000 millionaires

After the tax increase there will be a lot less.

How many unemployed people in France? How many of them are chronically unemployed (have not held a job in a LONG time and not looking)

A few years ago (I want to say 2008) I was seated on a NW flight, STL-DTW, next to a worthless lazy hippy who was on his way to France. He claimed to be a student who loved France and was talking about how wonderful it was that people didn't have to work to get by. He said that the US government wasn't fair because it expected productivity even if you just didn't feel like working and wanted to remain a student forever. He went on and on how how it was so terrible that he would have to pay back his student loans and that knowledge should be free. I asked him if he was serious because I just assumed he was joking, but he was serious as a heart attack. I never spent enough time in France to know if it is really like that, or if this guy was just living in a hippy fantasy. When we got off the plane I wished him a good trip to CDG and said I hope it's a one way trip. He asked why I said that I said "we don't need anymore lazy bums here". He gave me a dirty look and walked away. Stupid hippy.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6617 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 3):
Socialist government sets new 75% tax on the millionaires.

That tax has been deemed unconstitutional (not for its level, though, but on a technicality). There is a wealth tax on millionaires (ISF) and it's between 0,5% and 1,5% (and has been there for more than 30 years, socialist government or not). The 75% tax is a marginal rate of income tax, so at 1 million per year you're not paying anything more, you're still at the 46% marginal rate (and something like 30% effective). Only your gains over 1 million get taxed at 75%.

Many millionaires in France are only millionaires because our housing market has bubbled for the last 15 years, lots of people bought an average house at a normal price and it is now valued a million or more for the simple reason that there aren't enough houses. My parents who are public servants and not very good at putting money aside are technically millionaires because of their two houses (but not taxed since the first house counts less).

And finally, those taxes are only political cookies for the hard left, they have no bearing on the state of France's finances. Most people concerned have armies of fiscal specialists that allow them to pay less taxes than the average worker.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinehOmsAR From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):

In other words, economically, France is pretty much just like the US.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

Sadly the position of France is not uncommon. What may be uncommon is any view that people on "benefits" will be protected at the expense of those who are not. Typically, when States try to reduce expenditure it will likely be those who are the least able to fight back who suffer. While pious speeches regarding the valuable contributions of past generations might be made on appropriate national holidays, the first areas that governments seek to cut are access to age, disability pensions and housing allowances for the unemployed, etc. Why? Because such people have little collective power.

The staff at the Paris Metro going on strike has an immediate effect. Old Age Pensioners deciding to stay at home has none. While Governments might wax lyrical about the effects on patients if nurses go on strike, no one cares if patients decide not to go to hospital or simply cark it. Indeed, as a Minister in Japan recently said, he wished that the elderly were free to "hurry up and die". There is honesty for you. No bullshit: just simple truth of what he stands for. That might balance the books. Either way it will free Conservatives from worrying about whether it is more important to pay for bombs or welfare.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6617 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
He claimed to be a student who loved France and was talking about how wonderful it was that people didn't have to work to get by.

Well people don't starve here, I don't think they starve in the US either. Aside from that nobody is "living the life" on benefits (legally, that is, there is some fraud like in everything).

Unemployment is high, in fact it just hit a new high, but contrary to the US even in the best economic times it's never low, so it makes less of a difference. Just like there has not been any kind of mass evictions from homes or things like that, and everybody gets good health care.

MadameConcorde is in the minority but may not have gotten the memo yet. Bashing Hollande was a trend until recently but that has changed with him managing to broker an accord between unions and employers never seen before, that could help lower unemployment structurally in the long run. The right-wing opposition is really in shambles trying to find something to crow about because they dreamed of such an accord without ever managing to get it. Same with the war in Mali, they can only approve, in fact a few have voiced some critics and have been flamed by their peers. The fact that there is also a left-wing opposition is telling me that Hollande is right where he needs to be.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8228 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 3):
Even with those numbers that is expecting .004% of the population to carry a 75% tax load.

My money would be to bet that France, like the US, has a lot of loopholes to ensure the wealthy legally avoid as much as they can when paying income taxes. We saw it here in a very clear demonstration with Romney filing a 300+ page tax return.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
I don't think they starve in the US either.

We actually have a lot of hunger in the US, especially among low income kids. Our best efforts in that area are meals in schools.


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6799 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Shazam! Derp, didn't see that coming...

And in other news, bears do shit in the woods and the Pope is Catholic.



I guarantee this cautionary tale will be overlooked by the leftists in the US, however, sadly.


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
and they keep changing the laws thus making any financial planning an impossibility.

The same applies here in Australia. But where is the impetus coming from? Is it the idle, never did a a day's work, seven kids from eight fathers (well, she couldn't remember the last) of popular opinion?

No, it is coming from the industry that assured us that self reliance by means of personal income plans was the best guarantee of a future when we retired. Now, as the value of the state provided pension has been reduced and more people have signed up for these plans that are by definition better than what ever the state could ever provide, we are seeing a growing gap between the expectation and the delivery.

How many people around the world have seen their "much better than what ever the state can provide you with" income shrink? An example we see here in Australia, which is not untypical. To benefit from all these schems requires a withdrawal from the scheme of a certain proportion each tax year. However, as the world gambling scheme (sorry, remain objective and state the best economic system ever devised) takes a nose dive, people are forced to sell a greater portion just to recieve the same amount. Great for the funds because their liability is less. Not so good for investors who receive less than they paid in.

Tough luck, say the Conservatives as they pour themselves another cognac and accept their multi-million dollar parachutes, justifying it all on their superior capabilities. In a true democracy it is always better that someone else benefits from your loss.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

Quoting hOmsAR (Reply 6):
In other words, economically, France is pretty much just like the US.

No France is much better shape.
According to the statistics that I googled which are about a year old.

France only has a debt of 86% of GDP
The US has a debt of 121% of GDP

The problem France has is that they just cannot keep printing money expecting somebody else to pay for it as the US does.
If the US would have to borrow the money on the open market creditors would be demanding maybe 18% as in the Carter years.

Okie


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Interesting how things haven’t changed since Periclise and Aesop were around

1. In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
-- John Adams

2. If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.
-- Mark Twain

3. Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But then I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain

4. I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
--Winston Churchill

5. A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-- George Bernard Shaw

6. A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
-- G. Gordon Liddy

7. Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
--James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)

8. Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
-- Douglas Case,
Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown University .

9. Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

10. Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-- Frederic Bastiat, French economist(1801-1850)

11. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
--Ronald Reagan (1986)

12. I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
-- Will Rogers

13. If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free!
-- P. J. O'Rourke

14. In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to
the other.
--Voltaire (1764)

15. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you
-- Pericles (430 B.C.)

16. No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.
-- Mark Twain (1866)

17. Talk is cheap, except when Congress does it.
-- Anonymous

18. The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other.
-- Ronald Reagan

19. The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-- Winston Churchill

20. The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin.
-- Mark Twain

21. The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

22. There is no distinctly Native American criminal class, save Congress.
-- Mark Twain

23. What this country needs are more unemployed politicians
--Edward Langley, Artist (1928-1995)

24. A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -- Thomas Jefferson

25. We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.
– Aesop



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3362 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 12):
If the US would have to borrow the money on the open market creditors would be demanding maybe 18% as in the Carter years.

Are you sure about that because the US sells its treasury bonds at basically 0%, because the US is the safest place to park money. It is the best of the bad essentially.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Interesting how things haven’t changed since Periclise and Aesop were around

But they have. At least in the western world where the definition of poverty is no longer a corpse lying in a ditch. Someone may still be in the ditch but at least they are alive. That's progress for you and it is a good thing that no-one wishes to impede that. If people want to live in a ditch they should be free to.

But I wonder why so many people choose to when every year the world throws away twice as much food as is necessary to feed the world's population. Perhaps people prefer their right to choose and rather starve than buy stuff that Sizzzzlers and McWhatever throw away.

The sad reality is that no-one dies for a lack of food. They die because they can't afford to buy that food. While some are paid subsidies to plough food into the ground or let it rot on trees in order to keep the price high, others literally see their children waste away. It is a comforting thought to think that the world is civilised and is happy to see that the price guarantee can be provided to farmers by destroying food. Property has always been more important than people.

[Edited 2013-01-29 13:47:01]

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6617 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
and they keep changing the laws thus making any financial planning an impossibility.

You say "they" as in "the big bad socialists" but the right-wing was in power for 10 years and passed a record number of laws, often 5 or 10 on the same subjects. Taxes went up and down every year without even trying to explain the reasons behind the changes.

Yes the socialists have made changes of their own, exactly what you would expect from their first 6 months in power. They are saying that there will now be a fiscal stability, I'll take a wait and see approach but it can't be worse than before.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
How many people around the world have seen their "much better than what ever the state can provide you with" income shrink?

Fortunately that hasn't happened here yet. Pensions are still socialized nationally and have continually grown even during the worst of the crisis. Reforms are planned but no politician is foolish enough to suggest a privatization.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3750 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

France has been 'bankrupt' for ages. The realization that we are living above our means has hit home some time ago. The previous government kept crying they had no money whatsoever to spend. Yet spend they did.
The current government is saying the exact same thing. They also said they were the ones who were going to save countless billions and put the country back in the black. So far it seems they keep spending away just like everybody else before them.

I strongly disagree with most of their political choices and legislations regarding the economy and budget, but to be fair, the ones prior weren't much better.

Yet, France is borrowing at a record low rate... Go figure.

Quoting okie (Reply 12):
No France is much better shape.

It is, technically. The main difference is the strength of the commercial and industrial motor that's running behind. The US has a lot more potential on that front than France IMO, all proportions kept.

Quoting okie (Reply 12):
The problem France has is that they just cannot keep printing money expecting somebody else to pay for it as the US does.

I believe it's a good thing. It forces the Euro governments to get their s#|t together. An incentive that countries sovereign regarding their currency might not have as they'll tend to lazily rely on the presses.

There is nothing new in this fact that wasn't true years ago.
The fact that these articles suddenly appear in the UK press stems from the recent decision from Cameron to authorize a referendum on leaving the EU, which opens the door out for the UK.
The Euro countries are not too thrilled about it, but don't appear too intimidated either.
The recent comments from France's foreign affair minister, Laurent Fabius, who basically told Cameron something to the tune of: 'go shove it, good riddance' (in a slightly more politically correct fashion, mind) might have a thing to do with this flurry of articles...

[Edited 2013-01-29 14:50:16]


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 12):

That figures old, it hit 91% of GDP, which is 31% more than the allowed euro zone limit of 60%

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):

A lot needs to happen before 2018...

Cameron needs to be re-elected with a majority in 2015. If there is another coalition, then all bets are off.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 14):
Are you sure about that because the US sells its treasury bonds at basically 0%, because the US is the safest place to park money. It is the best of the bad essentially

There is really no one buying treasury bonds other than we print money to purchase them ourselves. QE1 QE2,QE3 and now we are buying Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae notes since they are basically Tango Uniform.

The old concept that China has invested heavily in US Treasuries does not hold true anymore as better rates can be had in other countries. It is risk-reward. US is very low risk no reward. France would be low risk better reward. Greece moderate risk even better reward.

Okie


User currently offlinePu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 697 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 12):
France only has a debt of 86% of GDP
The US has a debt of 121% of GDP

The US debt held by the public is 11.5 trillion, which is about 68% of GDP. Much better than France or most any European nation.

Debt not held by the public aka "intragovernmental holdings" is NOT used in the debt calculations of any other country and therefore only debt held by the public is accurate for the sake of comaprisons between nations.

Intragovernmental holdings are merely the tax revenues the US government already collected under the social security line item in your paycheck, but which it has spent in other areas. It is NOT debt in any conventional sense, no one can sue to recover it if it goes unpaid, no other nation counts this as debt and we can say Americans owe the debt to no one, except arguably themselves. Intragovernmental debt is an accounting placeholder: not real debt.

US Treasury debt to the penny is $11.5 trillion, 68% of GDP
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

US public debt according to the CIA = 67.8% GDP
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html



The fact that almost no Americans have any clue as to what their own national debt is or what intragovernmental holdings are is a great testament to the shortcomings of universal suffrage ... and a fine justification for government by a ruling elite who actually understand what the weak minded think they can grasp in a quick google search.




Pu


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
Intragovernmental holdings are merely the tax revenues the US government already collected under the social security line item in your paycheck, but which it has spent in other areas. It is NOT debt in any conventional sense, no one can sue to recover it if it goes unpaid, no other nation counts this as debt and we can say Americans owe the debt to no one, except arguably themselves. Intragovernmental debt is an accounting placeholder: not real debt.

While technically you are correct, this borrowing is not free. Basically it goes like this:

1) The treasury sends out checks for which it has no money.
2) To cover the overdraft, the Treasury issues T-bills. But very few people in their right mind wants to buy more T-bills at the moment.
3) The Federal Reserve literally invents money - buying the T-bills and crediting the Treasury's account with the proceeds.

This practice (monetization of debt) is hugely inflationary - the only reasons inflation is somewhat low is that the Federal Reserve is accepting the risk of less than 0% real rate of return - skewing world markets, and that the US economy is still in the crapper. If we used the same labor force participation rate today as when Obama took office, unemployment is now at 11.0%.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7496 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
The Socialist government's tax-and-spend policies are not working.

When you have no money, you can't spend money. Leftists need to get that in their heads.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 7):
While pious speeches regarding the valuable contributions of past generations might be made on appropriate national holidays, the first areas that governments seek to cut are access to age, disability pensions and housing allowances for the unemployed, etc. Why? Because such people have little collective power.

Old people have unsurpassed political power in any democracy.

But, when the government budget must stop growing, it means the recipients of government checks must necessarily stop growing in number, and the amount of money engraved on said checks must stop constantly increasing. That's all it means.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 15):
The sad reality is that no-one dies for a lack of food. They die because they can't afford to buy that food.

The irony is that the give-away dependence culture is actually the corrupt cesspool that starves people in Africa. Capitalism feeds people, something unique to capitalism.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6152 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 19):
The old concept that China has invested heavily in US Treasuries does not hold true anymore as better rates can be had in other countries. It is risk-reward.

It does hold true for the original reason... financing American debt allows us to continue purchasing Chinese made products.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 23):
The irony is that the give-away dependence culture is actually the corrupt cesspool that starves people in Africa. Capitalism feeds people, something unique to capitalism.

It is politics... all the sacks of food aid with "USA AID" blazoned across it is a great subsidy to American farmers. Much easier to "export" agriculture paid for by tax dollars than to actually help African farmers with tax dollars so that they can improve their farms and yields.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
25 MD-90 : Excellent! Tomorrow let's tell the Chinese government that their $1.1 trillion in Treasuries are worthless. Oh wait...that's debt, isn't it? Debt tha
26 StarAC17 : The future is very uncertain and yes you may want a return but in a lot of cases people and countries want to make sure that their money is safe. Yes
27 Revelation : If it makes the Mme feel any better, AP reports: Zut Alors!
28 Aesma : What about the debt of the 50 states, is it included in the national debt ? And the debt of the cities ? Because in France all that debt is bundled t
29 Post contains images MadameConcorde : This is 100% FALSE. Your vision of the country's history is incredibly narrow. France was quite well off and without any debt with Presidents Coty, d
30 bueb0g : You mean the taxing and spending that they haven't implemented yet? Which isn't being set Wow... A government shouldn't exist to act as a corporation
31 Quokkas : It is perhaps appropriate that you mention Pompidou as it was he, a former general director of the Rothschild Bank, who adopted a law that meant that
32 Aesma : Under De Gaulle the communists had much power and that's when social security (universal free health care) was implemented, that's hardly related to t
33 MadameConcorde : 3 June 1944 was the beginning of the temporary governments of the French Republic presided by General de Gaulle. The first Charles de Gaulle governme
34 Tupolev160 : Very stupid and immature comments. How come the "super hard working" US is also on the edge of bankruptcy? Those people made millions using public in
35 Aesma : It's rather the German economy cannibalizing its neighbors, right now.
36 Post contains images Flighty : So in that narrative, actually the US is responsible for France going bankrupt. Even though the US has defended Europe for 70 years, free of charge.
37 Post contains images NoUFO : This is false on so many levels ... Your mono causal reasoning is historically and intellectually unfounded.
38 Post contains links NAV20 : Absolutely - but I hope that it's accepted that it's in no way Germany's fault. They just happen to have the strongest economy in the Eurozone. While
39 MadameConcorde : The UK was smart to keep the Pound. I hated the Euro since its inception and I predicted that with the Euro trouble would happen. The Brussels gnomes
40 Dreadnought : His argument is straight out of the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital. The Zero-Sum principle, where the the only way to become rich is to make som
41 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : French steel mills workers along with their Belgian and Luxembourg colleagues protesting at the E.U. headquarters in Strasbourg against the closing of
42 Post contains links NAV20 : The Eurozone crisis has eased somewhat in recent months, but only because the European Central Bank has been pouring bailout funds into the countries
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