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CNN Piers Morgan Rips Milwaukee Sheriff Over Guns  
User currently offlineIllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5027 times:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwauk...guns-on-cnn-h98inr1-188955951.html

"Appearing before a nationwide cable-TV audience Tuesday night, Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett traded charges over gun violence.

In the exchanges, refereed loosely by gun-control proponent and CNN's Piers Morgan, Clarke and Barrett debated the role of the sheriff's office, planned furloughs for Milwaukee police officers and calls for federal gun-control laws.

Morgan host of "Piers Morgan Tonight," became part of the fray as well, pressing Clarke to tell him how many people in Milwaukee had defended themselves and their family at home by firing a gun.

"I don't have those statistics," Clarke said. Asked by Morgan to provide a ballpark figure, Clarke replied, "I don't think we need to go there, to be honest with you."

"You haven't got a clue," Morgan sneered."


Well, another day, another heated gun segment from Piers Morgan. Tonight he took on Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke Jr., who suggested earlier this week that instead of “calling 911,” citizens should arm themselves. At one point, Morgan berated Clarke and told him that what he is advocating marks “a return to the Wild West.” I don't know if I agree with the Sheriff here, but I know that I DO NOT like Piers Morgan.

250 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

I have a tremendous amount of respect for sheriff David Clarke Jr.
What he said is spot on and if your're familiar with Milwaukee, particularly the northwest side of town you would fully understand where he is coming from.

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
I DO NOT like Piers Morgan.

No one does and it's time to deport his arse!
Join the petition to have him deported. He isn't a good representative of his home country either.
Piers Morgan has had his arse handed to him multiple times by his guest - most recently Newt Gingrich.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGlobalMoose From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

I have much more respect for CNN than MSNBC or FoxNews and I believe that the whole Piers Morgan 'experience' is bringing the network down as a whole.

The Piers Morgan gun issue is starting to bother me (regardless of whether or not I agree with his views); his show is quickly degrading from one that interviews people to a show that exists for Mr. Morgan to express his opinion.

If you want your show to be opinion/editorial in nature, call a spade a spade, don't masquerade as something else.

[Edited 2013-01-29 23:57:56]


When it absolutely positively has to be there ... at some point.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4946 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Tonight he took on Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke Jr., who suggested earlier this week that instead of “calling 911,” citizens should arm themselves.


You know, I heard the commercial a couple of times and not once did I hear him say not to call 911. He says:

"With officers laid-off and furloughed, simply calling 911 and waiting is no longer your best option.”

It sounds to me like he's saying you have to do things in addtion to calling 911. Like, take some responsibility for your own protection and safety. It is not the police's job to protect you, it's their job to pick-up the pieces.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...says-skip-911-defend-yourself-guns

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
No one does and it's time to deport his arse!


Nope, let him keep talking...he just weakens his, and his network's, position and makes CNN look like MSNBC. He does have the right to spew his ignorance.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinedanielmyatt From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
it's time to deport his arse!

I'm not defending the vile oaf that is Morgan, but surely you can't deport someone for opposing the 2nd amendment when the first amendment is a right to free speech?


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 4):
I'm not defending the vile oaf that is Morgan, but surely you can't deport someone for opposing the 2nd amendment when the first amendment is a right to free speech?


Apparently there is some precedent on this.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/23/wa...plains-how-to-deport-piers-morgan/

Let him stay. He's entertaining and he certainly isn't undermining the Constitution. In fact, I believe he strengthens it.

[Edited 2013-01-30 03:01:52]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7146 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

I'm sick and tired of him too. Which is why I just don't watch anything he does. He's always seems to be insulting the United States too. So over him and hope he gets off the air soon. Too think he replaced Larry King. I wasn't a huge fan of him either but at least he had good guest and didnt try to take over the show for himself.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12450 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
I know that I DO NOT like Piers Morgan.

Another sad irony of the post-Newtown world is that it is making Morgan richer. I'm sure he's got a secure future in books and the talking circuit thanks to being singled out by the right.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
No one does and it's time to deport his arse!
Join the petition to have him deported. He isn't a good representative of his home country either.

Way to go on the Compassionate Conservatism!

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Nope, let him keep talking...he just weakens his, and his network's, position and makes CNN look like MSNBC. He does have the right to spew his ignorance.

Indeed he does, and the more the right push to silence him, the more they look like intolerant jerks.

The way to go would be to ignore him, kind of like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
It sounds to me like he's saying you have to do things in addtion to calling 911. Like, take some responsibility for your own protection and safety.


  
Makes sense to me. That's why we have guns.
You can't have a police officer standing in front of everyone's house. You have to take some responsibility to protect yourself. It's the same as having an emergency back up supplies of food, water & batteries in case of an earthquake, hurricane or other natural disasters. FEMA will not be able to come to your aid immediately.
It's the same has having your fire extinguisher and/or garden hose to help put out a fire in your house until the fire department arrives.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
It is not the police's job to protect you, it's their job to pick-up the pieces.


He never said that. He said they'll respond to as many calls as they can but can't immediately come to eveyone's aid instantly. Don't put words in the man's mouth that he never said.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
let him keep talking...he just weakens his, and his network's, position and makes CNN look like MSNBC.



You raise a very good point.


Mayor Tom Barrett sound clueless and seemed to be caught up in who's role different department's in government serves. He couldn't relate to any of the real life experiences the police officers deal with on a daily basis or the people that live in high crime areas. Typical of an elitist gun grabbing snob. Thought he would have learned something after getting beat over the head with a tire rod iron.
I'm glad he lost the recall election against Governor Scott Walker.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4801 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
No one does and it's time to deport his arse!

So 1st Amendment does not apply to legally resident foreigners ? I always thought the US Constitution applied to everyone. Like ours.

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 4):
I'm not defending the vile oaf that is Morgan, but surely you can't deport someone for opposing the 2nd amendment when the first amendment is a right to free speech?

Quite.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):
Apparently there is some precedent on this.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/23/wa...plains-how-to-deport-piers-morgan/

A big difference being that Morgan is a legal resident (presumably green card), and that Mandel was denied entry, and had no legal residency established. I see no precedent.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2722 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
You know, I heard the commercial a couple of times and not once did I hear him say not to call 911. He says:

"With officers laid-off and furloughed, simply calling 911 and waiting is no longer your best option.”

That is his MO. Changing the intent of what people actually said in order to try and shock people. He has been handed his arse repeatadly in his attempt to destroy our right's.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineroswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 778 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

Piers Morgan is a complete primadonna and an utter side show clown. He's a tabloid journalist on the run from a disgraced reputation in the UK. He's making a pretty foul reputation for himself in the US save for the most hard line Anti-2nd Amendment crowd.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

Now this is getting hilarious. Piers Morgan is now "threatening" to leave the United States if we don't repeal the 2nd Amendment.   
I find it it hilarious that he think's that is a "threat". I hope it's a promise.


http://www.infowars.com/piers-morgan...fter-infowars-petition-goes-viral/

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 4):
when the first amendment is a right to free speech?



Your country has free speech but didn't allow Geert Wilders to enter your country because of what he said in his speeches.
I'm sure the British would not take to kindly of an American on your TV networks bad-mouthing your people. It's not just Piers Morgan's views, but his downright insulting of the American people as a whole. Sure I support free speech but I have the right to say that he needs to get the f--k out!
Every country has the right to kick out undesirables and Piers Morgan is one of them. But as I said in my previous post already (#8), if he drags down CNN and continues to expose that network for what it really is, let's keep him around.
A wise British man told me that the proper term to describe Piers Morgan is "wanker".



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9):
I always thought the US Constitution applied to everyone. Like ours.

Ours? Our constitution doesn't even apply to all Canadian citizens.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7887 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Ugh this debate is getting pretty old (at least on this board) but I'll bite. While I disagree with much Piers Morgan is saying, to threaten to deport him because he disagrees with something (something that a good chunk of our country does, mind you) is pretty silly.

Maybe he's a dirt bag in it for the money, who knows, who cares. We shouldn't let it detract from the original arguments (the ones that matter)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineroswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 778 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

No need to deport him. CNN will fire him eventually. His ratings are terrible and only slightly boosted by his gun ban tirades. Jeff Zucker is cleaning house at CNN and Piers may eventually be unemployed. Threatening to deport him only artificially elevates his standing.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Quoting roswell41 (Reply 15):



Re-read post #12.
He is already 'threatening' to leave on his own accord.

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 15):
Jeff Zucker is cleaning house at CNN


Good to hear but he may have to do a complete demolition and rebuild. Piers Morgan isn't the only one that needs to go.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 13):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9):
I always thought the US Constitution applied to everyone. Like ours.

Ours? Our constitution doesn't even apply to all Canadian citizens.

Can you explain? While you're doing that I'll take another look at the constitution hanging on the wall of my den.
Unless you're making the narrow point that Quebec has not formally adopted the Constitution in the National Assembly.
I think in practice since Quebec makes constitutional arguments to the Federal and Supreme Courts, they have de facto adopted it.

As well, when you look at the Charter, every clause states either "everyone" or "every citizen".

[Edited 2013-01-30 08:44:58]


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
No one does and it's time to deport his arse!
Join the petition to have him deported.

What is the legal basis for this argument?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
He said they'll respond to as many calls as they can but can't immediately come to eveyone's aid instantly.

Guns are an extremely divisive debate that most people are pretty steadfast on. Perhaps the sheriff should put more effort into getting more funding for his department so that they can hire more officers and respond to more calls. The community will be safer, and jobs will be created, it's two birds with one stone.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Your country has free speech but didn't allow Geert Wilders to enter your country because of what he said in his speeches.

fr8mech's link suggests that the US has done the exact same thing, so let's not throw stones here.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 13):
Ours? Our constitution doesn't even apply to all Canadian citizens.

Can you back that statement up?

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9):
A big difference being that Morgan is a legal resident (presumably green card), and that Mandel was denied entry, and had no legal residency established. I see no precedent.

  



Flying refined.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 18):
What is the legal basis for this argument?



Continue reading my post after that statement. Geez!

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 18):
Perhaps the sheriff should put more effort into getting more funding for his department so that they can hire more officers and respond to more calls.



Did you watch the interview? The sheriff wants to do just that and he even said that. The budget cuts is out of his hands. Do you really think he wanted to lay off 42 officers? The budget is in the mayor's court - the man that doesn't think that people deserve the right to defend themselves.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 18):
fr8mech's link suggests that the US has done the exact same thing, so let's not throw stones here.



No one is throwing stones here. Where did fr8mech say that the US kicked out people for what they said.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
The way to go would be to ignore him, kind of like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.

I have news for you.............there are a hell of a lot of people who AREN"T ignoring Beck; why do you suppose he's making millions a year ? He was "cleaning up" while he was on FN; now he's tripled that ! (Beck is laughing at you all the way to the bank !)

As far as this douche-bag Morgan is concerned..........he's well on his way to "self-destructing"........I couldn't possibly care any less what that idiot thinks; (and I haven't watched "commie news network" in ten years, so it's not like he's bothering me any !) (the channel that brings you Soledad O'Brien, right ? (barf, yuck) Maybe Jeff Zucker will kick that Morgan twit out in the snow and hire a REAL dirt-bag to replace him......such as Michael Moore ? That should just about put the final nails in CNN's coffin !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Continue reading my post after that statement. Geez!

All you said was that you should kick him out because you don't like him. I understand it's well within the country's rights to kick out whomever they wish and for whatever reason...but I don't see the government bending over backwards to kick out a talk-show host because he's anti-gun.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Did you watch the interview? The sheriff wants to do just that and he even said that. The budget cuts is out of his hands. Do you really think he wanted to lay off 42 officers? The budget is in the mayor's court - the man that doesn't think that people deserve the right to defend themselves.

I'm not saying he didn't. My point is that the focus is on gun-control which is a futile effort on both sides, and the shriff isn't doing himself any favours by making those statements in front of Piers Morgan. The debate should be about funding which is a significantly more achievable goal.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Where did fr8mech say that the US kicked out people for what they said.

fr8mech's link gives the example of Marxist Belgian journalist Ernest Mandel being refused entry into the country. This is literally the exact same thing that Britain did to Wilders.

I personally think it was a bad move. Wilders didn't pose a threat. Even the Canadian government blocked him. People that went there to support him are going to support him anyway whether he enters the country or not, and I doubt anybody is going to be swayed by his hateful speech. If anything, he would have been laughed at.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
All you said was that you should kick him out because you don't like him. I understand it's well within the country's rights to kick out whomever they wish and for w.........



Just as I thought. You didn't continue reading what I post.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
and the shriff isn't doing himself any favours by making those statements in front of Piers Morgan.


Sheriff David Clarke doesn't need to prove jack$h!t to Piers Morgan. I think it's hilarious how you state; "in front of Piers Morgan.
He isn't any sort of authority.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
I doubt anybody is going to be swayed by his hateful speech.



Lot's of hate speeches being made openly in London and it goes unpunished and is swept under the rug. I haven't found Mr. Wilder's to say anything hateful but that isn't the main point of this thread.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21):
The debate should be about funding which is a significantly more achievable goal.


The mayor had an opportunity to discuss that but he didn't. Milwaukee county is facing the same budget crisis as all other counties, cities and states across the US. Even the federal government is facing a budget crisis.
Sheriff David Clarke is simply giving the most simple solution to deal with the problem of high crime in a cash-strapped county. Sheriff David Clarke can beg for more funding until he turns blue in the face but that wont make money magically appear. Local governments can't print more cash.
Not sure why people are so upset with Sheriff David Clarke when he states to enroll in a gun safety class. Even the anti-gun crowd should be in support of that.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 20):
Soledad O'Brien


Ugh, you just had to mention that turd!   



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3360 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9):
So 1st Amendment does not apply to legally resident foreigners ? I always thought the US Constitution applied to everyone. Like ours.

I believe it does and that was what the white house said when addressing this petition. We can't simply deny Morgan's first amendment rights and kick him out because his opinion makes other uncomfortable.

Quoting GlobalMoose (Reply 2):
The Piers Morgan gun issue is starting to bother me (regardless of whether or not I agree with his views); his show is quickly degrading from one that interviews people to a show that exists for Mr. Morgan to express his opinion.

Isn't that what the other cable news networks do in that time-slot as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):
Apparently there is some precedent on this.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/23/wa...plains-how-to-deport-piers-morgan/

Let him stay. He's entertaining and he certainly isn't undermining the Constitution. In fact, I believe he strengthens it.

Yeah the guy behind this whole thing is Alex Jones, hardly someone I would see as the best person to take seriously. Although people do.

Look he is offering an opinion and while I don't agree with every point he makes (ie an assault weapons ban is not going to do a lot).

However there are points to be made that even Republicans have said on Morgan's show that will make a huge difference. Such as closing the gun-show/private sales loophole which accounts for 40% of all US gun sales and of that 40% I bet there are many people inadvertently sell guns to criminals.

Follow the Swiss model where you have to have a license or a background check to buy a gun and you have to report a private sale and failing to do so is a crime. Also get a plan together on how to identify mentally ill people and treat them, not only will this help in getting guns out of people in the wrong hands but it will also help the economy by getting mentally ill people back into functioning in society thus increasing productivity.

The reason that the NRA opposes closing the gun-show loophole is that the gun manufacturers who fund them won't be able to sell as much as demand will fall if people feel more secure that those buying guns are law-abiding.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6799 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
What he said is spot on and if your're familiar with Milwaukee, particularly the northwest side of town you would fully understand where he is coming from.

Exactly...and you know the situation is bad when even the leftist MKE Journal-Sentinal editorial board supports DC's initiative!!!

Piers Morgan is a wanker who is trying to prop up his lowest rated cable news show by being as bombastic and heinously leftist as he can. And after he tried to bully Ben Shapiro with his "brandishing your little book" comment referring to the US Constitution, I would hope CNN aborts his ass and we deport his limey ass.


25 WestJet747 : I have, several times. Again, all you say is that you don't like the guy. Please quote the specific part where you make a legitimate legal argument,
26 WildcatYXU : Sure. Naturalized Canadians, such as myself, can be stripped of Canadian citizenship. There is no word about it in the constitution, but the current
27 Superfly : No you have not. You're still hung up on my first response. You haven't read the rest. The Sheriff has no say on how much money is funded to his depa
28 flipdewaf : You know many brits? I thought we were well known for taking the loss out of ourselves. Lol, does it make me wise if I think he's a banker? Fred
29 bongodog1964 : Please, please don't send him back, we are quite happy without him. He's an odious specimen This one I do have a problem with, the assumption that he
30 Revelation : I guess all of you are having a hard time ignoring him? He's preaching to the choir, the hard core conservatives. He's not reaching anyone else, whic
31 Post contains images Superfly : Haha! Agreed! I don't think anyone would take him. Actually he has and it's not just because of his anti-2nd. Amendment stance. You said it best, he'
32 2707200X : Great conservative logic, when you disagree with someone, shut them out, deport their ass and call them limey. You in the right have been accusing li
33 WestJet747 : I'm not familiar with any law that allows this...but surely you would have to do something really stupid in order for this to happen? But so long as
34 connies4ever : I don't think anyone would disagree with the concept that PM is a POS self-aggrandizer. As well, he has something to answer for, perhaps in court, in
35 mke717spotter : Milwaukee's image will never be enhanced under a "leader" like Barrett. He carries the stench of a political hack everywhere he goes. He refuses to t
36 Post contains images slider : I've decided to start playing by the lefties' rules. Actually, truth be told, whilst I despise Morgan and especially what he stands for, I want the l
37 Post contains images jpetekyxmd80 : Sure Piers can be a pompous arse, but i've come to like him quite a bit. I applaud him for having the balls to take on this issue with such vigor.
38 slider : And back on topic of the actual words of David Clarke, let's take a step back and think about this. How far gone are we, as a society, when there is o
39 fr8mech : Exactly. All this guy is saying is that we have to take responsibility for our own safety and he is challenged for it.
40 Mir : In what other civilized country do the police come out and say "look, we're not really able to do our job anymore, so you're going to have to pick up
41 Revelation : So in your world view there are these set of private citizens who have certification in security and self protection who undergo periodic re certific
42 2707200X : I rather be a leftists statist that a member of the blood curdling NRA who cares more about bushmasters than cares about the people who are killed by
43 Post contains links fr8mech : What he's saying, is what has always been the case, in any civilized country: The police can not be everywhere. The police can not protect you in eve
44 bristolflyer : The government has already said that they can't won't deport Piers Morgan. I think he's very hatable but many people only hate him because of his stan
45 StarAC17 : He challenges the people that he interviews which is something Larry King didn't do. It makes him very entertaining to me personally, I would have li
46 seb146 : So, Piers Morgan presents the other side of the FOX debate on guns so he is hated? I don't get it. The FOX crowd always crys about how we need to have
47 Superfly : I thought you were talking about Sheriff Dave Clarke. I already did twice but I want you to be able to read further and not freak out oer one sentenc
48 fr8mech : He's not hated because of his position on guns. He's hated because he's a pompous ass that has spent the last month attacking the gun owners, the US
49 CXfirst : For me, a more accurate analogy for using a gun to protect until the police arrive is having high-powered hoses installed or industrial grade fire ex
50 Superfly : .....and if you listened to the commercial, Sheriff Clarke said exactly that. Well of course. That is obvious.
51 flipdewaf : I suppose when someone invades your home its a feeling of shoot or be shot? A kind of natural human reaction I suppose. People who invade homes of cou
52 Superfly : Cute but what about all of those that own firearms illegally and are criminals that belong to street gangs and/or drug dealers? They cause the majori
53 Post contains images connies4ever : Interesting. Can you offer an example, or are you just blowing smoke ? I can fairly criticize America on a number of issues, but that doesn't make me
54 bongodog1964 : To all you US citizens out there, Piers Moron's attitude is nothing personal to you, he's just a beligerent rectum, who has made a career out of feudi
55 cmf : The idea that it is an attack on US and the Constitution to want responsible gun owners, i.e. gun control, is preposterous. It is high time for the "
56 Mir : That's always been understood to be the case. But when you have the police saying that budget cuts are affecting their ability to do their job, and t
57 FlyDeltaJets : How do you pull a gun on someone that has a gun pointed at you?
58 Post contains images Revelation : The military can't be everywhere either and cannot protect me in every circumstance, therefore I shall acquire a nuclear tipped artillery shells and
59 par13del : Well if that state is like many others, he may as well resign and run for his bosses job, his boss is cutting his budget, you are advocating that the
60 Post contains links slider : Already been addressed, but if you want to put all your trust in the police, go for it. Well, by the tone and content of this response, I'd say you m
61 Post contains images flipdewaf : Thats just the point, they own them legally, they aren't breaking any laws by owning a gun. The proposals of gun controls would reduce these, this is
62 Post contains images Superfly : ...and this is the best you can do? Looks like I've got under your skin. Regardless of what your resume states, you're still clueless on this very to
63 Revelation : How many other things would you have us take the burden of? In addition to self-defense, should I test my own water for impurities? Test everything I
64 flipdewaf : Agree, should be changed to "are vigilant enough, have enough sense and appreciate the danger and responsibility, are sane enough and are lucky enoug
65 Post contains links cmf : I think YOU ARE WAY off base here. Apparently you are supposed to capitalize a lot when discussing guns and mentioning political leanings... It is gr
66 L-188 : WHich one is Jeremy Clarkson? stories like that makes me wish I had cable. Also the ratings are in for Monday night. Piers Morgan pulled in 545,000 vi
67 seb146 : No, it is actually both. I hear this said about every "lilberal" (read: anyone not on FOX or AM radio) talker. Anyone who suggests the United States
68 Post contains images Revelation : I'd say "he's the moron" but that doesn't narrow it down any! Right, so it's not his popularity that is making the right wingers so upset....
69 lewis : I have a feeling that the American public does not really care about inner-city violence. A gang member killing another gang member is not what peopl
70 Post contains images connies4ever : And you're academic and practical quals are ???? No, actually. But attitudes seemingly displayed in your and other gun-hugger posts apall me. And you
71 Superfly : Many of them kill non-gang members and innocent bystanders get caught in the cross-fire. I've been held up at gun-point twice - once by some dope add
72 Dreadnought : That's you saying it. We just say it's stupid. Assault-type weapons (can't call them assault weapons because they are not automatics) are involved in
73 Post contains images Superfly : Has nothing to do with the discussion. Nothing on your resume gives you any more credibility on this issue. Deal with it. Me nor any other member is
74 Post contains images connies4ever : Agreed there is a ridiculous element here. And you're agreeing that you're pissing, then ? Hardly. I don't have the same accent for starters. And I d
75 StarAC17 : The tall one who like Morgan has a really big mouth. I tend to agree. What is needed is to close the gun show loophole (should be called a private sa
76 L-188 : Yeah, Does moron translate in this case to, "The Middle One"? I could see the old guy throwing a punch,
77 Post contains links jpetekyxmd80 : http://www.nbc29.com/story/20719160/...lic-road-kroger-with-assault-rifle How bout this guy now? SOOO glad that he has his 'rights', now what about th
78 cmf : I agree handguns is the bigger problem but it is interesting put your 1% is stupid small comment in perspective. There is no solid statistics about h
79 L-188 : I think Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow pulled in 1.5 and 1.2 million viewers respectively in the same slot. There are enough for a 1 page article in
80 seb146 : People keep pointing to Chicago. Nestled between Wisconsin and Indiana. Two gun crazy states. But, according to NRA, there is no way at all that anyo
81 qantas077 : this story even made headlines down here in Australia. Pretty bloody irresponsible to walk in to a place full of women and children with a loaded rif
82 cmf : LOL. That isn't statistics. It is feel good stories for those filled with fear or wanting to be heroes.[Edited 2013-02-01 02:09:17]
83 Post contains links Dreadnought : I give me a break. There are tons of studies and stats on the subject, Like here. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...les/expanded-homicide-data-t
84 flipdewaf : The phrase "prised from my cold dead hands" comes to mind. The state may make some of your guns illegal someday and take them from you, suck it up an
85 cmf : You provide a list of weapons used for murder as statistics as "proof" of how often weapons are used for self defense... It is pretty much like looki
86 FlyDeltaJets : There are not tons of studies. There are crime stats, that's it. Federal law prohibits. Research and data compilation on gun related incidents.
87 Post contains links fr8mech : How exactly? Was he threatening anyone? Did he point it at anyone? Does carrying a gun automatically make you more unstable? Did he break any laws? I
88 slider : If you're propping up your argument by just searching for tales of irresponsible gun owners and accidental shootings in an effort to eviscerate the S
89 Superfly : ???? Re-read my post #71. I never made any mention of Chicago. I mentioned Inglewood, California. That is where I was held up. The other place was ne
90 Revelation : Keep in mind it's not all people that equate "liberty" to the 2nd amendment. The Constitution and its Amendments are a lot broader than that. As abov
91 par13del : So we are relying on statistics and reports from the NRA to promote gun control? Is there a consensus on whether this information exist and whether w
92 cmf : But it is OK for proponents guns without responsibility to prop up their argument with a single feel good case.... Funny how you mention strawman and
93 Post contains links connies4ever : I'll make it mercifully simple for you. The basic argument put forth by the NRA and other gun-huggers is that more guns make you safer in your home a
94 Post contains links fr8mech : http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/ar...y-with-shotgun-until-police-arrive http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...ned-fire-at-atlanta-middle-school/ ht
95 Post contains images Revelation : Because it's a crap policy to recommend that more people arm themselves? Again, we know a gun in the home is more likely to kill a family member or a
96 fr8mech : Not even talking about "more" people. How about the people that are already armed? For the DHS to fail to acknowledge that there may be folks out the
97 Revelation : Just as much of a crap policy because... ... you seem to be presuming with high likelihood that the outcome of such scenarios is that the one that wo
98 seb146 : Since they were the ones who funded cutting funding for such studies, they are the ones to blame. Yes. Inglewood, yes. When was that? I would not go
99 cmf : Of course there are times when it works. That is one of the reasons we talk about gun control and not gun ban. There really are two sides to the stor
100 seb146 : Let's look at Tucson. There were people carrying. Responsible, registered gun owners carrying. When the shooter started firing, *some* (not all, but
101 Revelation : In addition, NRA likes to portray these heros as super-human when they are not, they're just humans. While they can be trained and responsible gun ow
102 fr8mech : Actually, all (and, as I recall, only one person had identified himself as carrying at the time of the shooting, were there more?) that were carrying
103 Revelation : Now you are equating being passive to being dead, which may be the way you see things, but is far from the guaranteed or likely outcome. But it's sti
104 connies4ever : Quoting Revelation (Reply 103): Who needs a military then, since we're all responsible for our own safety ? I could be way off base here, but wasn't t
105 seb146 : I see... so that just carrys over to every single incident ever? There has never ever been a case ever where someone started shooting and another sta
106 fr8mech : And, that, my friends, is the liberal fall back. If someone wants limited government, it means they want no government. If someone wants to exercise
107 Superfly : 1994. Does that really matter? Inglewood is just as dangerous today as it was in 1994. Gary is very dangerous. They're better off buying their guns i
108 Post contains images Revelation : Pretty cogent argument, especially if you read the 2nd amendment in the context of the 3rd, which is about the government not being able to force pri
109 Dreadnought : It is not the only reason, or even the main reason. According to those below (many of which actually wrote the Constitution and knew what they meant
110 Revelation : And the conserative fall back is if the police aren't effective enough, don't fix the police, arm the citizens. Data shows that guns have a lot more
111 DeltaMD90 : Come on Rev, you know you can't resolve this complex issue with a 4 word sentence. There are plenty of factors that play in. Data shows that you're m
112 Dreadnought : Do you think it is possible to have a police that is 100% effective? Catches every crook, foils every armed robbery attempt, murder attempt? This is
113 Post contains images Revelation : Indeed, but the refreshing thing about the post-Newtown world is that we can begin to counter decades of NRA brainwashing. Consider how much training
114 Post contains links Speedbird741 : Whilst I most certainly am not a fan of Piers Morgan's journalistic style or indeed of his views and opinions, I have to stand up and give him a massi
115 DeltaMD90 : Well, don't you think cops are going need a lot more training since it's kinda their job to go into dangerous situations all the time? Look, I think
116 Dreadnought : That's pretty much the curriculum of every NRA class, meeting and seminar. Also of all the gun safety classes provided to get a CCP.
117 Geezer : Here's your big problem; you're trying to talk about something that you don't really understand, and have very little real knowledge of, which happen
118 Post contains images cmf : Almost always the right response is to take cover and only take action if threatened at that location. Rushing out confronting will most likely make
119 cmf : Except that it is. As much as 40% of weapons sold each year is sold that way. Complain about outlandish statements and do it yourself defense. How Ru
120 Mir : I have to disagree with this one. American gun owners, as a group, tend to be very responsible people, and the fact that they own and/or carry guns e
121 Geezer : Let me ask you something; what makes you so sure that you are always right, and everyone who disagrees with your view point, is always wrong ? So you
122 jpetekyxmd80 : How on earth can you claim such a thing, much less grandstand on it. 1. I don't believe you 2. How shameless
123 fr8mech : And where did you see that I would take the fight to the attacker? The term I would use is "shelter in place." Under your scenario (and the DHS's), i
124 Post contains images connies4ever : Thanks for the reading assignment ! I will not debate your depth of knowledge w.r.t. the US Constitution or history -- as I indicated, in Canada basi
125 fr8mech : Yes, everyone, collectively, not individually. By the way, the US military does not, except under federal emergency powers (and then it's usually the
126 CXfirst : You'd be surprised at how similar our situation is. I currently live in Australia, but have lived in the UK, Indonesia, Malaysia and Norway, and go b
127 Mir : There is a different mentality, that's true. But that mentality has been going on for 250+ years now, and changing it is going to be very hard. Let's
128 Revelation : Unless you think relying on "beginner's luck" is a good idea, I'd say they need similar amounts of training. Should we dig up the thread here on the
129 DeltaMD90 : No, look, we have different standards for Army infantrymen, the SWAT team, a regular old cop, and an armed citizen. The armed citizen, like a normal
130 flipdewaf : these kind of things seem logical things to do with guns. Not sure why anyone could disagree but I'd like to hear any reasons. the only thing that be
131 Dreadnought : Licensing the ownership of guns, thus putting into the hands of government the power to veto/control access to weapons by the citizenry, would be con
132 flipdewaf : well they do that already by not allowing you to have fully automatic rifles so your point is kind of meaningless. morally and ethically mandatory? L
133 Mir : We already do it. That's why people fail background checks. And the courts have said that that isn't an affront to the 2nd amendment. -Mir
134 Geezer : I'm not "claiming" anything ! I'm merely "reporting" what a journalist who was THERE, happened to find out because he was trying to "find things out"
135 fr8mech : No, actually, we don't. The background check is not a license. The NICS background check confirms that the purchaser is not prohibited from purchasin
136 Dreadnought : Strictly speaking I would consider that a violation of the 2nd amendment, but it has been accepted as reasonable - should private individuals be allo
137 connies4ever : Of course. The US Army will protect Americans by defending sovereignty at the border, not necessarily within America itself -- unless you happen to g
138 flipdewaf : but surely that line can be redrawn to keep pace with societal changes? Fred
139 Dreadnought : Hence the ban on privately owned nuclear weapons... Seriously. Machine guns have been banned from private usage since 1930. What's left are semi-auto
140 Mir : It is, for all intents and purposes. There is no fundamental difference between having to pass a background check and the government issuing a licens
141 fr8mech : The point I was making, and expanded it to the police, is that state protects us collectively, not individually. The police protect us all by maintai
142 fr8mech : Except that a license provides the government (and any other interested parties with the ability) a list of people who may be exercising their Second
143 flipdewaf : That's all very well but what about the question posed? but surely this applies? Are the government not to know what their people are doing? Fred
144 fr8mech : No, so long as the people are not breaking the law, the government does not need to know what the people are doing. It's a fundamentally tenet of our
145 flipdewaf : Drivers license?
146 fr8mech : No constitutional right to drive. Further, if I wish to buy a gun and keep it in my home, in accordance with state and federal law, it is a private a
147 Revelation : I believe you are wrong and have pointed out why in #41 above, which none of our pro-gun members seem to want to acknowledge. Indeed. Scalia lists "l
148 StarAC17 : Yeah so prevent these people from buying guns without a background check and punish the seller as a deterrent to selling a weapon privately that ends
149 Mir : You do, however, have to register it. I don't see why firearms should be any different. -Mir
150 jpetekyxmd80 : Meanwhile in Texas... decorated sniper gets killed at a gun range.
151 fr8mech : Only because you have to pay taxes on it...in some states. If you can get a law passed that requires an annual tax on a firearm, then, I guess regist
152 Mir : I pay no taxes on my car. I pay the registration fee every couple of years when I renew, but that's it. If you're correct that cars are subject to ta
153 DeltaMD90 : Um I have and I actually agree with it, more or less...... generalizations, sir.
154 flipdewaf : Your statement only mentioned law breaking and nothing to do with constitutional rights. Plus there is still no answer for the question posed in repl
155 FlyPNS1 : Sorry, any credibility you had goes out the window with "FACTS" like these. The death toll from automobiles in the United States runs around 36,000 a
156 Post contains images mt99 : Reasonableness? There is no "reasonableness" in the words "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED".. Its clear; if you want a nuclear war submarine; you should be ab
157 jpetekyxmd80 : Haha, yeah, I missed that one. I've never seem a poster with less credibility while claiming to be factual.
158 Post contains links cmf : They are horrible at storing their weapons. Way too few use a gun safe. Right wing SOP: Start by attacking the messenger. My side? If you, sorry YOU,
159 Dreadnought : You did no such thing. Citizens who have no reason to have their rights restricted under the fifth amendment have the right to own guns on their prop
160 mt99 : Why? are you suggesting "arms" should only be kept inside private properties? How about a tank?
161 Post contains links Dreadnought : That is current law. You don't need a license to own a gun on your own property. You do need a license if you take on public property. I know a coupl
162 PlanesNTrains : They can't be everywhere all of the time, even if they want to. All are layers of security. However, a gun "can" be one of those layers. I think if s
163 Geezer : Allow me to explain how things "work" in the U.S. There are certain "activities" that one needs a license to engage in; a few things require a licens
164 PlanesNTrains : Well, to be fair, this is what you said: I knew the number to be short of 40,000 so figured you were remembering the numbers wrong or something. -Dav
165 Post contains links cmf : http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058 The below quote explains why it is more dangerous. Plenty of data and references in the linked document. "T
166 Geezer : Here we go again ! You have managed to get that exactly backwards; I clearly stated that a news photographer stuck a camcorder in my face and THOUGHT
167 Post contains links fr8mech : So, what do we do? Just sit and let the criminal element do what they want in hopes that the police get there in time. Sit at the mercy of the crimin
168 flipdewaf : But yet you say... Do as I say, not as I do. Fred
169 Revelation : Well, at least you concede the "on your property" restriction. Since we're going with that, do you have a gun factory on your property? Ok, at least
170 fr8mech : I expect, that if it was a stand-alone provision, that it would pass. But, if it is bundled in with an AWB and a high cpacity magazine ban and God kn
171 flipdewaf : Totally agree (I know it doesn't affect me) but I think it happens a lot in governments all over the world, the more complex you make things and the
172 cmf : Yes here we go again with YOU CHANGING what you had previously stated. From your post 121: You CLEARLY state you broke his nose because he tried to t
173 DeltaMD90 : Actually as a side note, people (even gun owners) might be surprised at some of the stuff that can be (and is) legally owned. Some people have grenad
174 fr8mech : The point of the matter is the DHS does not address the very real possibility that a potential victim may be armed. As for selective quoting, I poste
175 cmf : You did not post the whole card up front. You selected pieces of it and not until later did you post the actual card. Then you even agree with their
176 Mir : I'd very much doubt it. The NRA has taken a stand against background checks, and for them to lose would be emasculating for them. Thus, they'll fight
177 fr8mech : Actually, if you look at my original post, you'll see a formatting error, which I only picked up on when I returned to the link. Got away with what?
178 Post contains links fr8mech : Not a fan of posting back to back, but it looks like there is some movement on this front: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...assault-weapons-ban
179 cmf : Yes, the information is there to see. How you have the audacity to blame those who do not have your political leaning for not taking responsibility w
180 seb146 : I am not really surprised how hated Piers Morgan is for expressing his opinion but when anyone gets on O'Reilly or Hannity's case, there will be hell
181 Geezer : Breaking News: I couldn't possibly care less what you think ! You strike me as being someone who has a lot of second-hand "opinions", and that you're
182 Dreadnought : Uh, no, them too.
183 DeltaMD90 : You're surprised that people with right political leanings dislike Piers Morgan but like Hannity or O'Reilly? Or people on the left liking Piers Morg
184 Post contains links cmf : Since you go on a rant every time you obviously care. There is a book called The Righteous Mind ( Amazon ) You will probably not like it but it expla
185 seb146 : No. What bothers me is: the people who support O'Reilly and Hannity and say "we need freedom of speech" are the same people who hate Piers Morgan and
186 Geezer : You kinda wear that "rant" BS out, don't you ? Anyone says anything YOU don't agree with, and he's RANTING ! So what do you call all that "ranting" y
187 cmf : I'm not a gun hater. I have repeatedly stated I think guns should be available for hunting, use at ranges and for self defense in high risk situation
188 Post contains links Dreadnought : The 2nd amendment was NOT written just to allow hunting or just home defense, it was written to protect Liberty and to keep government from getting t
189 Post contains links Mir : Apparently it will make trafficking a federal crime (it wasn't already?) and make it illegal for a straw purchaser to transfer a firearm to anyone wh
190 cmf : Apart from that there are more efficient ways to deal with things like that today what I'm suggesting would not prevent another Battle of Athens from
191 DeltaMD90 : I mean there are always the vocal few that say crazy things but I think you are only focusing on them, most people I've seen don't want to take anyon
192 seb146 : Some of those who I disagree with will actually read from different sources and make up their own minds. Some others will take whatever FOX/AM radio
193 DeltaMD90 : I wouldn't even say violent video games/movies are part of the problem... the only people that would emulate a video game/movie are the ones already
194 fr8mech : I just read the same from a different source. My comment on this is why do we need additional trafficking legislation if we pass a universal backgrou
195 Post contains links cmf : I think we are on dangerous ground when making it a mental health issue. I have no doubt mental health is involved in many shootings, especially the
196 Revelation : Then you must really dislike the USSC Heller decision written by Scalia, because it says the (limited) right to bear arms is divorced from such reaso
197 Post contains images StarAC17 : Also I would point out that violent video games (with the exception of one) and most violent movies illustrate the "Good Guy with a gun" mentality. A
198 fr8mech : But, if you require a universal background check, under penalty of law, the person selling the firearm is on the hook. I imagine that any background
199 Mir : Because a background check on its own doesn't protect against straw purchasers at all - someone who can legally get a firearm can go buy one, pass th
200 Dreadnought : You keep saying that and I have no idea of what you are talking about. How does Heller in any way negate the right of the people to reject and overth
201 fr8mech : And that can happen with a trafficking law in place, also. If someone is going to buy a gun and sell it to someone who is ineligible to buy a gun, wh
202 Mir : The difference is that if the guns shows up at a crime scene, with a tracking system it can be traced back to the person who sold it illegally. A sim
203 fr8mech : Yes, I know that. In fact, there is legislation that says that a firearm and/or its component parts do travel interstate and are thus subject to fede
204 Mir : And what I'm saying is that someone's got to know in order for law enforcement to properly enforce the laws. If you don't want the federal government
205 fr8mech : But, that process already exists and implementing mandatory background checks will only strengthen it. If model 4321, s/n 1234 is recovered at a crim
206 cmf : Making registration part of the background check is a natural. Not having the info available in a database so it can be pulled quickly whenever a wea
207 fr8mech : Here is my biggest problem with a registration database: LEO: Mr. Fr8mech? Me: Yes? LEO: There was a .40 caliber used in a crime last night, the fire
208 DeltaMD90 : Oh no, I agree with you, I'm all against scapegoats. I don't want to see "guns=problems" as the scapegoat either. This, to be effective and not strip
209 cmf : It is easy to include minimum requirements to avoid that issue. Identification via serial number, if the weapon is recovered, ballistics, multiple ci
210 flipdewaf : So let me get this straight in my head fr8mech ( seems like many here are coming to similar thoughts) You believe having database for police investig
211 Mir : "The information in this database shall only be distributed to members of federal, state or local law enforcement in response to a court order. Such
212 fr8mech : Then why bother? Except to maintain a list of gun owners and their firearms. What if the firearm is not recovered? Ballistics is an iffy business, at
213 Mir : If that's the way the law turns out to be worded, then fine (and we also have to consider the paper trail that would be left for private sales and ho
214 cmf : As mentioned so many times over multiple threads. To hold the last legal owner of a weapon used in a crime responsible. Was not aware ballistics is i
215 fr8mech : If there is a mandatory background check, using the current rules that an FFL must follow, i.e. Form 4473 (or equivalent) and some expanded record ke
216 cmf : Bullets isn't the only thing used. Yes it is technically not ballistics but forensic firearm identification. Yet it is included under ballistics all
217 seb146 : Yes, there is a mental health component to all of this. That is just one of the factors in gun violence. There is also the factor of people believing
218 DeltaMD90 : And I've said it needs to be approached from multiple angles about 10 times already... yes there are common sense gun measures out there
219 seb146 : A majority of Americans want that. A mix of mental health and gun and video games... Not banning ALL of one thing which is what some people think is
220 PlanesNTrains : The FoxNews/Hannity/blah blah blah nonsense is so unproductive that it's almost mind-numbing. It's such a knee-jerk reply that screams "I am a victim
221 jpetekyxmd80 : And where would that be? I have heard reports of a *surprise* BS email trying to say all mass shooters, etc are registered Democrats or something. I'
222 fr8mech : Please stop with the hyperbole. I don't believe I have ever stated that I own guns in order to overthrow the government. I own guns to provide option
223 cmf : If you blame games and movies, as NRA do, then you must accept that some types of weapons work in the same way.. Just as the play on fear the gun ind
224 fr8mech : Actually, I do believe, and have stated in the past, that one of the protections we have against a tyrannical government is that a potential tyrant w
225 flipdewaf : So if the government mandated that the NRA set up such a database and all reasonable charges to upkeep that database be charged to the government the
226 Dreadnought : If they were held legally responsible to keep that information secure and divulge only when presented with a court order, sure. Although I would not
227 Post contains images flipdewaf : We should be government advisers! Fred
228 Post contains images cmf : So you use it as an argument to oppose the government. Where are the plenty people saying they want them gone completely? You are making chicken from
229 seb146 : I never said it was a crime. I am just pointing out what the largest cable info-tainment provider does and says. FOX consistantly plays the victim wh
230 Post contains links fr8mech : I don't see where the government can mandate that because the NRA doesn't sell guns. Nor are they the only gun rights organization. I fail to see whe
231 cmf : When you want police to track weapons step by step instead of doing a direct search in a database you ad cost. Registering the weapons together with
232 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : It's been several days so I'm trying to go back and reread what I wrote. I believe that when I stated "need" I was saying it from the perspective of
233 PlanesNTrains : Ok, here's a link to the video. I hope I represented it fairly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKpLhNiC8zg -Dave
234 seb146 : I don't know why people stand up for FOX and try to make them the only legitimate news source when everyone knows they are biased toward the right. W
235 DeltaMD90 : Doesn't make you a bad person, but we're just wondering why you are stating the obvious. Of course they have right wing bias, of course they'll have
236 PlanesNTrains : Huh? I don't need to read it slowly. I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is DUH! Of course there are people who think that. Why do you
237 fca767 : you're spot on...I don't like all these celebs such as S cowell all pretending to be moody, or actually moody and insulting and patronising and getti
238 Post contains images Revelation : Heller says the right to bear arms is not tied to a militia, nor to ANYTHING else, it stands on its own. Thus the right to bear arms to overthrow a g
239 StarAC17 : Mental health doesn't mean one is going to commit a massacre as mental health issues are broad and may not lead to aggressive and violent behaviour.
240 Dreadnought : Obviously not the only legitimate source (and please, tell me who exactly tried "to make them the only legitimate news source"), but they do have a v
241 cmf : Completely agree. Just as lack of mental health issues doesn't mean someone won't. Where has it been established that a normal person won't consider
242 Post contains links Revelation : There were many writings to pick from, yet not all made it into the Constitution and its Amendments or the two centuries of Supreme Court decisions s
243 Post contains links Dreadnought : I see the problem. You see rights as something that government gives you, by writing positive law to the effect. A very progressive attitude. Typifie
244 Revelation : Yet the right to overthrow the government wasn't worthy, even when several constituent states thought it was so important that they did include it? S
245 seb146 : I keep pointing it out because the same argument is being used all over right-wing media and then used here. And not budging at all from that stand.
246 Dreadnought : Seems like you missed the part saying: And, based on the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the States have much broader scope of powers than the feder
247 Mir : What you describe are the various agencies of government. But the people we actually elect to office are there to set national policies (something th
248 Revelation : Okay, so II can use my natural right to overthrow the government but I can't use a nuclear weapon because there's a law against that, but there's a r
249 DeltaMD90 : Nor should you, I'm just wondering why you're bringing it up. It seems obvious to everyone here... bias is everywhere. Some are more biased to others
250 Post contains links iowaman : Thank you to all who have largely kept this thread civil. Due to length, please continue the thread here: CNN P. Morgan Rips Mil. Sheriff Over Guns Pa
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