"Appearing before a nationwide cable-TV audience Tuesday night, Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett traded charges over gun violence.
In the exchanges, refereed loosely by gun-control proponent and CNN's Piers Morgan, Clarke and Barrett debated the role of the sheriff's office, planned furloughs for Milwaukee police officers and calls for federal gun-control laws.
Morgan host of "Piers Morgan Tonight," became part of the fray as well, pressing Clarke to tell him how many people in Milwaukee had defended themselves and their family at home by firing a gun.
"I don't have those statistics," Clarke said. Asked by Morgan to provide a ballpark figure, Clarke replied, "I don't think we need to go there, to be honest with you."
"You haven't got a clue," Morgan sneered."
Well, another day, another heated gun segment from Piers Morgan. Tonight he took on Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke Jr., who suggested earlier this week that instead of “calling 911,” citizens should arm themselves. At one point, Morgan berated Clarke and told him that what he is advocating marks “a return to the Wild West.” I don't know if I agree with the Sheriff here, but I know that I DO NOT like Piers Morgan.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39408 posts, RR: 76 Reply 1, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
I have a tremendous amount of respect for sheriff David Clarke Jr.
What he said is spot on and if your're familiar with Milwaukee, particularly the northwest side of town you would fully understand where he is coming from.
No one does and it's time to deport his arse!
Join the petition to have him deported. He isn't a good representative of his home country either.
Piers Morgan has had his arse handed to him multiple times by his guest - most recently Newt Gingrich.
GlobalMoose From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3901 times:
I have much more respect for CNN than MSNBC or FoxNews and I believe that the whole Piers Morgan 'experience' is bringing the network down as a whole.
The Piers Morgan gun issue is starting to bother me (regardless of whether or not I agree with his views); his show is quickly degrading from one that interviews people to a show that exists for Mr. Morgan to express his opinion.
If you want your show to be opinion/editorial in nature, call a spade a spade, don't masquerade as something else.
[Edited 2013-01-29 23:57:56]
When it absolutely positively has to be there ... at some point.
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4719 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3835 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): Tonight he took on Milwaukee sheriff David Clarke Jr., who suggested earlier this week that instead of “calling 911,” citizens should arm themselves.
You know, I heard the commercial a couple of times and not once did I hear him say not to call 911. He says:
"With officers laid-off and furloughed, simply calling 911 and waiting is no longer your best option.”
It sounds to me like he's saying you have to do things in addtion to calling 911. Like, take some responsibility for your own protection and safety. It is not the police's job to protect you, it's their job to pick-up the pieces.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6761 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3747 times:
I'm sick and tired of him too. Which is why I just don't watch anything he does. He's always seems to be insulting the United States too. So over him and hope he gets off the air soon. Too think he replaced Larry King. I wasn't a huge fan of him either but at least he had good guest and didnt try to take over the show for himself.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39408 posts, RR: 76 Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3727 times:
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3): It sounds to me like he's saying you have to do things in addtion to calling 911. Like, take some responsibility for your own protection and safety.
Makes sense to me. That's why we have guns.
You can't have a police officer standing in front of everyone's house. You have to take some responsibility to protect yourself. It's the same as having an emergency back up supplies of food, water & batteries in case of an earthquake, hurricane or other natural disasters. FEMA will not be able to come to your aid immediately.
It's the same has having your fire extinguisher and/or garden hose to help put out a fire in your house until the fire department arrives.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3): It is not the police's job to protect you, it's their job to pick-up the pieces.
He never said that. He said they'll respond to as many calls as they can but can't immediately come to eveyone's aid instantly. Don't put words in the man's mouth that he never said.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3): let him keep talking...he just weakens his, and his network's, position and makes CNN look like MSNBC.
You raise a very good point.
Mayor Tom Barrett sound clueless and seemed to be caught up in who's role different department's in government serves. He couldn't relate to any of the real life experiences the police officers deal with on a daily basis or the people that live in high crime areas. Typical of an elitist gun grabbing snob. Thought he would have learned something after getting beat over the head with a tire rod iron.
I'm glad he lost the recall election against Governor Scott Walker.
roswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 633 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3640 times:
Piers Morgan is a complete primadonna and an utter side show clown. He's a tabloid journalist on the run from a disgraced reputation in the UK. He's making a pretty foul reputation for himself in the US save for the most hard line Anti-2nd Amendment crowd.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39408 posts, RR: 76 Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3640 times:
Now this is getting hilarious. Piers Morgan is now "threatening" to leave the United States if we don't repeal the 2nd Amendment.
I find it it hilarious that he think's that is a "threat". I hope it's a promise.
Your country has free speech but didn't allow Geert Wilders to enter your country because of what he said in his speeches.
I'm sure the British would not take to kindly of an American on your TV networks bad-mouthing your people. It's not just Piers Morgan's views, but his downright insulting of the American people as a whole. Sure I support free speech but I have the right to say that he needs to get the f--k out!
Every country has the right to kick out undesirables and Piers Morgan is one of them. But as I said in my previous post already (#8), if he drags down CNN and continues to expose that network for what it really is, let's keep him around.
A wise British man told me that the proper term to describe Piers Morgan is "wanker".
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 6548 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3608 times:
Ugh this debate is getting pretty old (at least on this board) but I'll bite. While I disagree with much Piers Morgan is saying, to threaten to deport him because he disagrees with something (something that a good chunk of our country does, mind you) is pretty silly.
Maybe he's a dirt bag in it for the money, who knows, who cares. We shouldn't let it detract from the original arguments (the ones that matter)
roswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 633 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3590 times:
No need to deport him. CNN will fire him eventually. His ratings are terrible and only slightly boosted by his gun ban tirades. Jeff Zucker is cleaning house at CNN and Piers may eventually be unemployed. Threatening to deport him only artificially elevates his standing.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3573 times:
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 13): Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9):
I always thought the US Constitution applied to everyone. Like ours.
Ours? Our constitution doesn't even apply to all Canadian citizens.
Can you explain? While you're doing that I'll take another look at the constitution hanging on the wall of my den.
Unless you're making the narrow point that Quebec has not formally adopted the Constitution in the National Assembly.
I think in practice since Quebec makes constitutional arguments to the Federal and Supreme Courts, they have de facto adopted it.
As well, when you look at the Charter, every clause states either "everyone" or "every citizen".
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1636 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3558 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 1): No one does and it's time to deport his arse!
Join the petition to have him deported.
What is the legal basis for this argument?
Quoting Superfly (Reply 8): He said they'll respond to as many calls as they can but can't immediately come to eveyone's aid instantly.
Guns are an extremely divisive debate that most people are pretty steadfast on. Perhaps the sheriff should put more effort into getting more funding for his department so that they can hire more officers and respond to more calls. The community will be safer, and jobs will be created, it's two birds with one stone.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 12): Your country has free speech but didn't allow Geert Wilders to enter your country because of what he said in his speeches.
fr8mech's link suggests that the US has done the exact same thing, so let's not throw stones here.
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 13): Ours? Our constitution doesn't even apply to all Canadian citizens.
Can you back that statement up?
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9): A big difference being that Morgan is a legal resident (presumably green card), and that Mandel was denied entry, and had no legal residency established. I see no precedent.
Continue reading my post after that statement. Geez!
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 18): Perhaps the sheriff should put more effort into getting more funding for his department so that they can hire more officers and respond to more calls.
Did you watch the interview? The sheriff wants to do just that and he even said that. The budget cuts is out of his hands. Do you really think he wanted to lay off 42 officers? The budget is in the mayor's court - the man that doesn't think that people deserve the right to defend themselves.
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 18): fr8mech's link suggests that the US has done the exact same thing, so let's not throw stones here.
No one is throwing stones here. Where did fr8mech say that the US kicked out people for what they said.
Geezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3528 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 7): The way to go would be to ignore him, kind of like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.
I have news for you.............there are a hell of a lot of people who AREN"T ignoring Beck; why do you suppose he's making millions a year ? He was "cleaning up" while he was on FN; now he's tripled that ! (Beck is laughing at you all the way to the bank !)
As far as this douche-bag Morgan is concerned..........he's well on his way to "self-destructing"........I couldn't possibly care any less what that idiot thinks; (and I haven't watched "commie news network" in ten years, so it's not like he's bothering me any !) (the channel that brings you Soledad O'Brien, right ? (barf, yuck) Maybe Jeff Zucker will kick that Morgan twit out in the snow and hire a REAL dirt-bag to replace him......such as Michael Moore ? That should just about put the final nails in CNN's coffin !
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1636 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3514 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 19): Continue reading my post after that statement. Geez!
All you said was that you should kick him out because you don't like him. I understand it's well within the country's rights to kick out whomever they wish and for whatever reason...but I don't see the government bending over backwards to kick out a talk-show host because he's anti-gun.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 19): Did you watch the interview? The sheriff wants to do just that and he even said that. The budget cuts is out of his hands. Do you really think he wanted to lay off 42 officers? The budget is in the mayor's court - the man that doesn't think that people deserve the right to defend themselves.
I'm not saying he didn't. My point is that the focus is on gun-control which is a futile effort on both sides, and the shriff isn't doing himself any favours by making those statements in front of Piers Morgan. The debate should be about funding which is a significantly more achievable goal.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 19): Where did fr8mech say that the US kicked out people for what they said.
fr8mech's link gives the example of Marxist Belgian journalist Ernest Mandel being refused entry into the country. This is literally the exact same thing that Britain did to Wilders.
I personally think it was a bad move. Wilders didn't pose a threat. Even the Canadian government blocked him. People that went there to support him are going to support him anyway whether he enters the country or not, and I doubt anybody is going to be swayed by his hateful speech. If anything, he would have been laughed at.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39408 posts, RR: 76 Reply 22, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21): All you said was that you should kick him out because you don't like him. I understand it's well within the country's rights to kick out whomever they wish and for w.........
Just as I thought. You didn't continue reading what I post.
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21): and the shriff isn't doing himself any favours by making those statements in front of Piers Morgan.
Sheriff David Clarke doesn't need to prove jack$h!t to Piers Morgan. I think it's hilarious how you state; "in front of Piers Morgan.
He isn't any sort of authority.
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21): I doubt anybody is going to be swayed by his hateful speech.
Lot's of hate speeches being made openly in London and it goes unpunished and is swept under the rug. I haven't found Mr. Wilder's to say anything hateful but that isn't the main point of this thread.
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 21): The debate should be about funding which is a significantly more achievable goal.
The mayor had an opportunity to discuss that but he didn't. Milwaukee county is facing the same budget crisis as all other counties, cities and states across the US. Even the federal government is facing a budget crisis.
Sheriff David Clarke is simply giving the most simple solution to deal with the problem of high crime in a cash-strapped county. Sheriff David Clarke can beg for more funding until he turns blue in the face but that wont make money magically appear. Local governments can't print more cash.
Not sure why people are so upset with Sheriff David Clarke when he states to enroll in a gun safety class. Even the anti-gun crowd should be in support of that.
StarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3494 times:
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 9): So 1st Amendment does not apply to legally resident foreigners ? I always thought the US Constitution applied to everyone. Like ours.
I believe it does and that was what the white house said when addressing this petition. We can't simply deny Morgan's first amendment rights and kick him out because his opinion makes other uncomfortable.
Quoting GlobalMoose (Reply 2): The Piers Morgan gun issue is starting to bother me (regardless of whether or not I agree with his views); his show is quickly degrading from one that interviews people to a show that exists for Mr. Morgan to express his opinion.
Isn't that what the other cable news networks do in that time-slot as well.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5): Apparently there is some precedent on this.
Let him stay. He's entertaining and he certainly isn't undermining the Constitution. In fact, I believe he strengthens it.
Yeah the guy behind this whole thing is Alex Jones, hardly someone I would see as the best person to take seriously. Although people do.
Look he is offering an opinion and while I don't agree with every point he makes (ie an assault weapons ban is not going to do a lot).
However there are points to be made that even Republicans have said on Morgan's show that will make a huge difference. Such as closing the gun-show/private sales loophole which accounts for 40% of all US gun sales and of that 40% I bet there are many people inadvertently sell guns to criminals.
Follow the Swiss model where you have to have a license or a background check to buy a gun and you have to report a private sale and failing to do so is a crime. Also get a plan together on how to identify mentally ill people and treat them, not only will this help in getting guns out of people in the wrong hands but it will also help the economy by getting mentally ill people back into functioning in society thus increasing productivity.
The reason that the NRA opposes closing the gun-show loophole is that the gun manufacturers who fund them won't be able to sell as much as demand will fall if people feel more secure that those buying guns are law-abiding.
slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6624 posts, RR: 36 Reply 24, posted (10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3489 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 1): What he said is spot on and if your're familiar with Milwaukee, particularly the northwest side of town you would fully understand where he is coming from.
Exactly...and you know the situation is bad when even the leftist MKE Journal-Sentinal editorial board supports DC's initiative!!!
Piers Morgan is a wanker who is trying to prop up his lowest rated cable news show by being as bombastic and heinously leftist as he can. And after he tried to bully Ben Shapiro with his "brandishing your little book" comment referring to the US Constitution, I would hope CNN aborts his ass and we deport his limey ass.
25 WestJet747: I have, several times. Again, all you say is that you don't like the guy. Please quote the specific part where you make a legitimate legal argument,
26 WildcatYXU: Sure. Naturalized Canadians, such as myself, can be stripped of Canadian citizenship. There is no word about it in the constitution, but the current
27 Superfly: No you have not. You're still hung up on my first response. You haven't read the rest. The Sheriff has no say on how much money is funded to his depa
28 flipdewaf: You know many brits? I thought we were well known for taking the loss out of ourselves. Lol, does it make me wise if I think he's a banker? Fred
29 bongodog1964: Please, please don't send him back, we are quite happy without him. He's an odious specimen This one I do have a problem with, the assumption that he
30 Revelation: I guess all of you are having a hard time ignoring him? He's preaching to the choir, the hard core conservatives. He's not reaching anyone else, whic
31 Superfly: Haha! Agreed! I don't think anyone would take him. Actually he has and it's not just because of his anti-2nd. Amendment stance. You said it best, he'
32 2707200X: Great conservative logic, when you disagree with someone, shut them out, deport their ass and call them limey. You in the right have been accusing li
33 WestJet747: I'm not familiar with any law that allows this...but surely you would have to do something really stupid in order for this to happen? But so long as
34 connies4ever: I don't think anyone would disagree with the concept that PM is a POS self-aggrandizer. As well, he has something to answer for, perhaps in court, in
35 mke717spotter: Milwaukee's image will never be enhanced under a "leader" like Barrett. He carries the stench of a political hack everywhere he goes. He refuses to t
36 slider: I've decided to start playing by the lefties' rules. Actually, truth be told, whilst I despise Morgan and especially what he stands for, I want the l
37 jpetekyxmd80: Sure Piers can be a pompous arse, but i've come to like him quite a bit. I applaud him for having the balls to take on this issue with such vigor.
38 slider: And back on topic of the actual words of David Clarke, let's take a step back and think about this. How far gone are we, as a society, when there is o
39 fr8mech: Exactly. All this guy is saying is that we have to take responsibility for our own safety and he is challenged for it.
40 Mir: In what other civilized country do the police come out and say "look, we're not really able to do our job anymore, so you're going to have to pick up
41 Revelation: So in your world view there are these set of private citizens who have certification in security and self protection who undergo periodic re certific
42 2707200X: I rather be a leftists statist that a member of the blood curdling NRA who cares more about bushmasters than cares about the people who are killed by
43 fr8mech: What he's saying, is what has always been the case, in any civilized country: The police can not be everywhere. The police can not protect you in eve
44 bristolflyer: The government has already said that they can't won't deport Piers Morgan. I think he's very hatable but many people only hate him because of his stan
45 StarAC17: He challenges the people that he interviews which is something Larry King didn't do. It makes him very entertaining to me personally, I would have li
46 seb146: So, Piers Morgan presents the other side of the FOX debate on guns so he is hated? I don't get it. The FOX crowd always crys about how we need to have
47 Superfly: I thought you were talking about Sheriff Dave Clarke. I already did twice but I want you to be able to read further and not freak out oer one sentenc
48 fr8mech: He's not hated because of his position on guns. He's hated because he's a pompous ass that has spent the last month attacking the gun owners, the US
49 CXfirst: For me, a more accurate analogy for using a gun to protect until the police arrive is having high-powered hoses installed or industrial grade fire ex
50 Superfly: .....and if you listened to the commercial, Sheriff Clarke said exactly that. Well of course. That is obvious.
51 flipdewaf: I suppose when someone invades your home its a feeling of shoot or be shot? A kind of natural human reaction I suppose. People who invade homes of cou
52 Superfly: Cute but what about all of those that own firearms illegally and are criminals that belong to street gangs and/or drug dealers? They cause the majori
53 connies4ever: Interesting. Can you offer an example, or are you just blowing smoke ? I can fairly criticize America on a number of issues, but that doesn't make me
54 bongodog1964: To all you US citizens out there, Piers Moron's attitude is nothing personal to you, he's just a beligerent rectum, who has made a career out of feudi
55 cmf: The idea that it is an attack on US and the Constitution to want responsible gun owners, i.e. gun control, is preposterous. It is high time for the "
56 Mir: That's always been understood to be the case. But when you have the police saying that budget cuts are affecting their ability to do their job, and t
57 FlyDeltaJets: How do you pull a gun on someone that has a gun pointed at you?
58 Revelation: The military can't be everywhere either and cannot protect me in every circumstance, therefore I shall acquire a nuclear tipped artillery shells and
59 par13del: Well if that state is like many others, he may as well resign and run for his bosses job, his boss is cutting his budget, you are advocating that the
60 slider: Already been addressed, but if you want to put all your trust in the police, go for it. Well, by the tone and content of this response, I'd say you m
61 flipdewaf: Thats just the point, they own them legally, they aren't breaking any laws by owning a gun. The proposals of gun controls would reduce these, this is
62 Superfly: ...and this is the best you can do? Looks like I've got under your skin. Regardless of what your resume states, you're still clueless on this very to
63 Revelation: How many other things would you have us take the burden of? In addition to self-defense, should I test my own water for impurities? Test everything I
64 flipdewaf: Agree, should be changed to "are vigilant enough, have enough sense and appreciate the danger and responsibility, are sane enough and are lucky enoug
65 cmf: I think YOU ARE WAY off base here. Apparently you are supposed to capitalize a lot when discussing guns and mentioning political leanings... It is gr
66 L-188: WHich one is Jeremy Clarkson? stories like that makes me wish I had cable. Also the ratings are in for Monday night. Piers Morgan pulled in 545,000 vi
67 seb146: No, it is actually both. I hear this said about every "lilberal" (read: anyone not on FOX or AM radio) talker. Anyone who suggests the United States
68 Revelation: I'd say "he's the moron" but that doesn't narrow it down any! Right, so it's not his popularity that is making the right wingers so upset....
69 lewis: I have a feeling that the American public does not really care about inner-city violence. A gang member killing another gang member is not what peopl
70 connies4ever: And you're academic and practical quals are ???? No, actually. But attitudes seemingly displayed in your and other gun-hugger posts apall me. And you
71 Superfly: Many of them kill non-gang members and innocent bystanders get caught in the cross-fire. I've been held up at gun-point twice - once by some dope add
72 Dreadnought: That's you saying it. We just say it's stupid. Assault-type weapons (can't call them assault weapons because they are not automatics) are involved in
73 Superfly: Has nothing to do with the discussion. Nothing on your resume gives you any more credibility on this issue. Deal with it. Me nor any other member is
74 connies4ever: Agreed there is a ridiculous element here. And you're agreeing that you're pissing, then ? Hardly. I don't have the same accent for starters. And I d
75 StarAC17: The tall one who like Morgan has a really big mouth. I tend to agree. What is needed is to close the gun show loophole (should be called a private sa
76 L-188: Yeah, Does moron translate in this case to, "The Middle One"? I could see the old guy throwing a punch,
77 jpetekyxmd80: http://www.nbc29.com/story/20719160/...lic-road-kroger-with-assault-rifle How bout this guy now? SOOO glad that he has his 'rights', now what about th
78 cmf: I agree handguns is the bigger problem but it is interesting put your 1% is stupid small comment in perspective. There is no solid statistics about h
79 L-188: I think Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow pulled in 1.5 and 1.2 million viewers respectively in the same slot. There are enough for a 1 page article in
80 seb146: People keep pointing to Chicago. Nestled between Wisconsin and Indiana. Two gun crazy states. But, according to NRA, there is no way at all that anyo
81 qantas077: this story even made headlines down here in Australia. Pretty bloody irresponsible to walk in to a place full of women and children with a loaded rif
82 cmf: LOL. That isn't statistics. It is feel good stories for those filled with fear or wanting to be heroes.[Edited 2013-02-01 02:09:17]
83 Dreadnought: I give me a break. There are tons of studies and stats on the subject, Like here. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...les/expanded-homicide-data-t
84 flipdewaf: The phrase "prised from my cold dead hands" comes to mind. The state may make some of your guns illegal someday and take them from you, suck it up an
85 cmf: You provide a list of weapons used for murder as statistics as "proof" of how often weapons are used for self defense... It is pretty much like looki
86 FlyDeltaJets: There are not tons of studies. There are crime stats, that's it. Federal law prohibits. Research and data compilation on gun related incidents.
87 fr8mech: How exactly? Was he threatening anyone? Did he point it at anyone? Does carrying a gun automatically make you more unstable? Did he break any laws? I
88 slider: If you're propping up your argument by just searching for tales of irresponsible gun owners and accidental shootings in an effort to eviscerate the S
89 Superfly: ???? Re-read my post #71. I never made any mention of Chicago. I mentioned Inglewood, California. That is where I was held up. The other place was ne
90 Revelation: Keep in mind it's not all people that equate "liberty" to the 2nd amendment. The Constitution and its Amendments are a lot broader than that. As abov
91 par13del: So we are relying on statistics and reports from the NRA to promote gun control? Is there a consensus on whether this information exist and whether w
92 cmf: But it is OK for proponents guns without responsibility to prop up their argument with a single feel good case.... Funny how you mention strawman and
93 connies4ever: I'll make it mercifully simple for you. The basic argument put forth by the NRA and other gun-huggers is that more guns make you safer in your home a