Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Lumia 820 And 920  
User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 387 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1736 times:

Hi all,

I had recently written a post about the Nokia Lumia 820 and 920 in another thread which has since been archived. It was an interesting thread. Anyway 3 weeks and 4 days after that post, I made an order today for a Samsung Note 2 phone. I did lots of research into this topic, made a huge spreadsheet in MS excel comparing it with the Lumia 820/920 and iphone 5. For anyone who is interested, I'll just share some part of what I learnt in the past three weeks. Bear in mind that what I say is not 100% accurate so please be gentle. I am happy to stand corrected. Also, I will only list out points which I researched into which is important to me - apologies from me if things which are important to you (such as camera quality) are not mentioned below.

I won't list out all the top level hardware and software specs. They can be found on the internet.

Basic apps (OS / firmware): The performance of the core apps such as browser, notepad, calender, tasks list, emails, social apps (FB etc), phone calling, SMS and contacts are generally good for all three. Assuming one makes the effort (and a huge one for me) to migrate to that OS i.e. from MS to Google for me (from Outlook/Hotmail to Gmail), then all three OS is fine.

Synchronisation to desktop (lets assume Window 8 = W8):
Here, none of them did well. I initially thought that Window Phone 8 (WP8) would do best in this area but actually Android and iOS does better. For photos, videos and documents, WP8 sync to W8 default to the Microsoft Skydrive. A user uses the Lumia phone, create these files, save to Skydrive by default, and the files will automatically be added to a skydrive folder (skydrive app) in W8. So far so good. The same is not true going the other way. A new file added to Skydrive from a W8 desktop will not be automatically pushed to WP8. This works the same as google drive and icloud I believe - the rationale is that as a phone's capacity is usually smaller than a desktop skydrive folder, an automatic push of new file to the phone will blow up the phone's storage capacity. However, in the case of google drive and icloud for example a file change will be sync'd to the phone, but W8's Skydrive will not.

I do note that the above issue can be resolved with say dropbox as an example, so there is still a solution on WP8.

One thing I noted in my previous post was the sync of broswer bookmarks. It turns out the WP8 and W8 is the only one of the three OS which misses out on this feature. This is because IE10 on WP8 does not support this feature and AFAIK IE10 is the only browser available on WP8.

I originally thought that being an MS person (use MS outlook for contact and email) I can keep using MS Outlook when I move to iphone 5 or android phone, but sync of contacts, tasks, calendar is actually quite difficult and has risk of duplicate entries and data losses. It is still possible with either native or third party app though. I thought that WP8 will do better here but in fact it does worse. There is no automatic synchronisation between Outlook 2010 and Outlook.com. Surprising as it may seem, Android and iOS actually sync better with Outlook 2010 (my desktop outlook program) than WP8. Sync between Outlook 2010 and Outlook.com can only be done manually using export/import. I'd expect this to be automatic.

Backup of data to desktop or to cloud:
This point is mainly to serve as backup in the event of a catastrophic phone device failure. Here, icloud does best as it promises to back up 100% of everything. Android will only back up down to the individual apps level but apps data is not guaranteed. However there are Android apps out there which will back up even the apps data for you automatically. WP8 is the same as Android i.e. will only back up down to the individual apps level but apps data is not guaranteed. Unlike Android however, WP8 currently has no 3rd party apps which will back up the apps data. Therefore, here WP8 does worst.

User input:
Obviously the primary mean of user input for all 3 phones is the touchscreen input. However, WP8 here actually does worst because whilst the Nokia Lumia 820/920 has a very good touchscreen, iOS and Android both have third party apps which will enhance the input interface beyond the default. For example, there are 3rd party keyboard apps which will allow a keyboard with a row of numbers on top. This is important to me because I often need to type a mixture of numbers and letters. The SG N2 has a pen of course which adds another dimension to user interfacing. The pen will be important for me as I know I like writing using a pen to make notes and I am looking forward to using it to make both drawings and (more importantly) handwriting-recognition notes.

Initially, when I saw the adverts for SGN2 where they write drawings on their notepad and scribbles I immediately had an afterthought on how the phone is going to save and backup these drawings and scribbles. It turns out that they can be saved in either pdf or jpeg format. For me, I'll most likely skip these formats and use MS Onenote for Android which will allow some form of searchability and forward compatibility.

SGN2 can handle copy and paste best of the three. This is a feature which I will use often mainly when using the inbuilt office apps and also copying text off web browser and into another application.

File explorer and security:
File explorer is available in Android natively, iOS via third party app only and not available at all in WP8. I must note that this is neither a good or bad point as programmers will consider the presence of file manager programs in any OS a major source of security risk and it gives too much power to the user to do things which are not intended. As many will recognise, this is a result of the 'walled-garden' approach which WP8+iOS have versus Android. It is thoroughly possible that Android will in time proves itself to be the most unstable OS amongst the three in terms of security but right now it is not my main concern yet simply because I don't know how it will bites me in the future.

After sale services:
I have read a few bad stories of long turnaround time for phone maintenance services for Samsung versus Apple and Nokia. However, from reading the web forums the reliability of SGN2 is not bad and probably no worse than iphone5 and Lumia

I have read some bad stories of battery drain on both iphone5 and SGN2 but they mostly seem to be related to the 4G network of individual cell services provider. A step down to 3G will resolve the issues.

Finally, I noted that a number of people said that the S Pen on the SGN2 can cause many small issues. Usually it can be resolved by pen replacement.

I also note a long turnaround time by Samsung to release Android version update for their phones. However, I do not see it as a showstopper right now.

---

Up to this point, I am still quite ambivalent towards all three. The main deciding point then for me are the apps, which leads me to iOS and Android. The 4 inch screen on the iphone 5 then became a sticking point for me as I wanted a phone with a bigger screen, and so I choose the SGN2.

To me the Lumia 820/920 would have done best if outlook.com and outlook 2010 can sync between themselves. I am not prepared to stop using my desktop outlook program yet and if there is no sync between the two then the most important benefit I can get from the Lumia disappears. I am happy that it has MS Office natively but Office 365 (which is the version Lumia has) doesn't offer any major advantage to iWork or Doc to go as long as I do not use pivot tables or VBA on the spreadsheets (in any case features like these are not compatible with Office 365 either). At a high level, WP8 and W8 are not any closer together in terms of sync than iOS to W8 or Android to W8. A closer bond between my W8 desktop and WP8 will be much appreciated. To conclude a lot more needs to be added to WP8 before I can start using it. As far as hardware is concerned, Lumia 820/920 is definitely up there with iphone5 and SGN2.

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMarkusMUC From Germany, joined Jun 2010, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Quoting mdavies06 (Thread starter):

I originally thought that being an MS person (use MS outlook for contact and email) I can keep using MS Outlook when I move to iphone 5 or android phone, but sync of contacts, tasks, calendar is actually quite difficult and has risk of duplicate entries and data losses. It is still possible with either native or third party app though. I thought that WP8 will do better here but in fact it does worse. There is no automatic synchronisation between Outlook 2010 and Outlook.com. Surprising as it may seem, Android and iOS actually sync better with Outlook 2010 (my desktop outlook program) than WP8. Sync between Outlook 2010 and Outlook.com can only be done manually using export/import. I'd expect this to be automatic.

To me the Lumia 820/920 would have done best if outlook.com and outlook 2010 can sync between themselves.

Quoting mdavies06 (Thread starter):

You need to have a Windows Live account and the Hotmail Connector.
It works fine for email and contacts. The calender sync is not so good in my view.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2459660/en-us


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1631 times:



Quoting mdavies06 (Thread starter):
Backup of data to desktop or to cloud:
This point is mainly to serve as backup in the event of a catastrophic phone device failure. Here, icloud does best as it promises to back up 100% of everything.

For me it is even more important that iTunes makes complete backups locally without any external cloud service being involved. It also syncs everything else locally as well, which I prefer over cloud solutions. (Sync and backup go via USB or WiFi.) At least with a Mac sync is effortless and generally problem-free.

Quoting mdavies06 (Thread starter):
Up to this point, I am still quite ambivalent towards all three. The main deciding point then for me are the apps, which leads me to iOS and Android.

Indeed – those two have the by far largest volume of apps. If you also look at app quality, only iOS remains.

The Android ecosystem is difficult to support well as a developer due to fragmentation both across the many older OS versions that are still widely used (for comparison: 60% of all iOS devices ever sold are on the latest version iOS 6) and across a multitude of vastly different hardware models, and the revenues are relatively low, which is why few high-quality apps exist there.

Developers who spend lots of resources on their apps effectively need to go to iOS first at the very least, and in many if not most cases they either ignore Android completely, eventually have to cut down their apps to make them run on Android at least so-so, and/or give up on the platform entirely after failing to make back their investment.

Since the Android App Market is not curated, its sheer numbers are bolstered by huge amounts of outright trash, plagiarized apps and malware which would not make it into the iOS App Store since every app is individually checked before being admitted there.

If you subtract that lowest quality level, the number of actually worthwile apps is far smaller on Android.

Quoting mdavies06 (Thread starter):
The 4 inch screen on the iphone 5 then became a sticking point for me as I wanted a phone with a bigger screen, and so I choose the SGN2.

Just be aware that this is effectively the decision between needing both hands to operate your phone most of the time vs. almost always being able to use it single-handedly (iOS and most of the apps also support this well on the software level).

[Edited 2013-01-31 16:29:11]

User currently offlineTLG From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Just be aware that this is effectively the decision between needing both hands to operate your phone most of the time vs. almost always being able to use it single-handedly (iOS and most of the apps also support this well on the software level).

Actually, Klaus, you may not know this since you seem to be an Apple guy, but an Android phone with a larger screen can be used single-handedly much easier than an iPhone with a screen the same size. The difference is the UI. iOS requires reaching to the top all the time, for prompts and icons. Icons start in the upper left corner, which is the opposite corner from your thumb (unless you use your left hand).

Klaus, what's your opinion on the rumors of a 4.8" screen and NFC in the works? I got the idea that Apple's opinion was that those features were unnecessary "bullet points", but it seems they might be coming after all.

[Edited 2013-01-31 19:28:32]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Quoting TLG (Reply 3):
Actually, Klaus, you may not know this since you seem to be an Apple guy, but an Android phone with a larger screen can be used single-handedly much easier than an iPhone with a screen the same size. The difference is the UI. iOS requires reaching to the top all the time, for prompts and icons. Icons start in the upper left corner, which is the opposite corner from your thumb (unless you use your left hand).

That is a bizarre assertion – Android also uses the entire display area for UI elements and content (which often contains links and other UI elements as well). On the iPhone all of it is reachable single-handedly. On the big Android devices it isn't: You'll need both hands in many cases.

Quoting TLG (Reply 3):
Klaus, what's your opinion on the rumors of a 4.8" screen and NFC in the works? I got the idea that Apple's opinion was that those features were unnecessary "bullet points", but it seems they might be coming after all.

I see little value and substantial downsides in both.

Such rumours have existed for years, together with countless rumours about all kinds of other stuff which never came true. The existence of a particular rumour is completely irrelevant without any substance to support it.


User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1524 times:

Quoting MarkusMUC (Reply 1):
You need to have a Windows Live account and the Hotmail Connector.
It works fine for email and contacts. The calender sync is not so good in my view.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2459...en-us

Oh yes I had forgotten the outlook Hotmail connector. I did set it up but had to close the connector (i.e. close the account on Outlook 2010) after the desktop UI attempted to download a copy of every one of my Hotmail mails over the past 10+ years into my local Outlook desktop program. Is there a way to turn this off?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Indeed – those two have the by far largest volume of apps. If you also look at app quality, only iOS remains.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
For me it is even more important that iTunes makes complete backups locally without any external cloud service being involved. It also syncs everything else locally as well, which I prefer over cloud solutions. (Sync and backup go via USB or WiFi.) At least with a Mac sync is effortless and generally problem-free.

Completely agree on the point on onsite backup.

As far as apps are concerned, you are probably right although for me I have never experienced the difference as I have never owned an iphone before.

What is the risk of malware in iOS generally?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Just be aware that this is effectively the decision between needing both hands to operate your phone most of the time vs. almost always being able to use it single-handedly (iOS and most of the apps also support this well on the software level).

This is a good point. There is a natural limit to phone sizes in terms of both length and width.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 5):
What is the risk of malware in iOS generally?

Almost nonexistent.

Example:

Under Android some the most damaging malware apps surreptitiously send SMS to expensive "services" owned by criminals without any indication to the user. Since the Android app markets are open to anyone without oversight, criminals can simply pump their malware apps into them and simply re-upload them (possibly with modifications) if they should get yanked at some point. By very thoroughly examining the access rights an app requests up front (which will require some education about the inner workings of Android), you may be able to detect some of the more dubious apps, but this can be tricky.

iOS Apps attempting such a thing would a) not survive the mandatory app validation before being admitted to the App Store because of dubious API accesses popping up in the technical checks and the app being refused in the first place and b) would find that iOS doesn't even allow "blind" sending of SMS: The user is always prompted to confirm the transmission of an SMS, even if it was initiated by an app.

This is just one example for why mobile malware concentrates on Android, but the difference runs through many other aspects of both systems as well.

Another issue: Only a small minority of all Android devices runs the current OS version – almost all run more or less outdated OS versions which still contain many known and unfixed security vulnerabilities (which is by far the worst combination) due to the very lackluster update policies of hardware manufacturers and mobile providers.

iOS devices, on the other hand, are updated through Apple directly, with nobody else (apart from the user) having a say in the matter. As a result, 60% of all iOS devices ever produced run the latest iOS version 6, notably including all its security fixes and including the immediate and universal eligibility for updates such as the iOS 6.1 update a few days ago. If you subtract the (unknown) number of devices from the total which aren't even in use any more, the percentage is even higher. For criminals most vulnerabilities are getting public (in Apple's description of issues just fixed with the new update) no sooner than they're already being fixed in millions of users' devices within a few days or weeks.

In Android known vulnerabilities remain open for years – and even over the entire lifespan of many devices.

Apple has deservedly been scolded for bug fixes taking longer than they should have in a few cases, but overall they support most of their devices very well and for a long time (my old iPhone 3GS is in its fourth year now, and still fully supported).

The risk under Android is further exacerbated when you're "rooting" the device (which gives not just yourself, but also any malware apps more extensive access to the system) or by deliberately "jailbreaking" iOS (done in most cases to use pirated apps, or for tinkering with the internals) the built-in security measures are largely disabled as well – "jailbroken" iPhones have already been hit by malware a few times while devices in their proper state have remained unaffected.

That pirated apps may have malware injected into them is of course an added risk in itself – the same as with pirated desktop software.


User currently offlineTLG From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Klaus, all that is no doubt correct in theory, but in real life, how much does it actually happen? And, assuming that compromise in security happens more with Android devices, could it also have something to do with there being 6 Android phones for every iPhone? I've never had an infected device or one with compromised security, or even heard of a real-life case. But then, I recall you saying in a thread awhile ago that you've never seen an iPhone with a broken screen either.   I guess we tend to see & believe what we want to, and likewise we shut out the opposite.

I very much enjoy these discussions and I highly respect your vast knowledge, which makes me feel ignorant in comparison. That said, I do think you are somewhat less than objective at times.   Maybe you should get yourself a flagship Android device and try it for awhile. You might be surprised!

To the OP, I never had a WP8, but I used a WP7. I have set up Office 365's Online Exchange on all 3 OS's, and to honest with you, the iPhone was the most difficult to set up. It was awhile ago, and I don't recall which iPhone or iOS version it was. Once they were all set up I didn't see any difference in performance between the 3.

As far as cloud backup, iOS definitely takes the cake here. That's one glaring hole in Android's ecosystem in my opinion. To do any kind of decent backup, the device must be rooted, and even then it won't restore it to exactly the state it was. I wasn't too impressed with iTunes otherwise, but I sure miss that backup! MS's Zune is supposed to do something similar to iTunes, but the one time I tried to restore my WP7 device it failed.

I don't know how necessary a file explorer option is. It's something we're used to, but is it necessary on a mobile platform? If you're worried about file storage & sharing, iOS has very limited cross app functionality; Android's is much more open.

You probably won't be disappointed with the SGN2. It's catching on fast. And, because it's one of Samsung's popular models, the updates should be kept up fairly well. Whatever you choose, enjoy!


User currently offlineRedTailDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 757 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1397 times:

Quoting TLG (Reply 7):
Klaus, all that is no doubt correct in theory, but in real life, how much does it actually happen?

Klaus has made some good points and although I am not Klaus, I would say that if you use proper judgement, it shouldn't pose too much of a threat.

People always complain that PC's become slow and they are way more prone to viruses requiring you to buy anti-virus products for them. Although I am slowly shifting from PC to Mac, I can tell you that the only people who get viruses are usually the ones getting into stuff that they shouldn't be. I never once had a virus and my computer always ran top notch because I kept it updated, defragmented, and cleaned up.

I had a Galaxy S2 before buying my iPhone 5 and to me it is the same story. iOS makes it much easier because it has much more protection against malware, mainly because of it's tight knit software and the tests for new apps before they are placed on the App Store. But with Android, again as long as you aren't rooting your phone and being cautious about the random apps you download, you can very easily avoid being attacked.

Of course there will always be that small chance with android because of the delay in Android updates for various reasons.


- Mason



Northwest Airlines. Now your flying smart!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Iran Claims To Send Monkey To Space And Back posted Mon Jan 28 2013 15:17:42 by RussianJet
Fdic Insurance And Bank Subsidiaries posted Sun Jan 27 2013 00:22:52 by Airstud
Website Flightlevel350.com Neglected And Abandoned posted Sat Jan 26 2013 20:43:08 by BEG2IAH
Great Snorkeling And Beaches In Turkey? posted Fri Jan 18 2013 09:43:21 by Fallap
Britain And The EU - What Does The Future Hold? posted Tue Jan 15 2013 12:43:10 by kaitak
Hard Rock CAfe - Rio De Janeiro And Tahiti posted Fri Jan 11 2013 19:55:33 by Mortyman
Crime And Lead posted Sun Jan 6 2013 04:12:57 by flyingturtle
NHL And Nhlpa Reach Tentative Agreement. posted Sun Jan 6 2013 02:59:19 by bartonsayswhat
And This Is Why We *do* Need Guns posted Fri Jan 4 2013 19:12:25 by ALTF4
How Is Nokia Lumia 820/920 Doing? posted Mon Dec 31 2012 20:44:55 by United Airline