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Why Do We Continue To Support The Israelis If.....  
User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

I just read an article that lit a fire up under my ass. I will include the link to the story, but first here is the crux of the article:

Apparently Israel in recent years has become a major supplier of weapons and weapons technology to China. Israel's government has previously stopped the sale of weaponry under pressure from the United States. However, in 1992, the Pentagon investigated intelligence reports that Israel covertly exported U.S. Patriot missile technology to China. Israel and China denied tit but U.S. officials are convinced the transfer took place.

What the hell is this? Our government is Israel's biggest ally, yet they turn around and supply Red China with equipment that could, and just might seriously damage us if and when China decides they are tired of waiting for Taiwan to come back home.

This doesn't sit well with me, and if you are American it shouldn't sit well with you either.

I also find it interesting that I haven't heard more about it.

J

Here is the article:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20020702-92332036.htm


Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

Maybe you weren't around, but about a week or two ago this topic was beaten and discussed to a bloody pulp. The wounded and slain numbered into the dozens with both sides of the Atlantic and countries as far away as Australia suffering major losses.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

countries as far away as Australia suffering major losses

That's quite bad considering all Australia had to start off with was Paul Hogan.


User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

oh....

Sorry about that guys, got so riled up about it I had to share.

Still though, pisses me off.

J



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineMish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Dont get so pissed off man take a chill pill, ill explain..

2 summers ago, Israel bought 2 Russian IL-76 Cargo planes (at a great deal of course), the purpose of this sale was to make AWACS aircraft for China, USA stepped in "what the hell are you doing?", so we did not sell them. Ok we all know the Patriot missile is so useless, it misses the target and than comes back down (we seen this in the gulf war). We also see this American power step in during the LAVI program in Israel, IAI came out with a aircraft 10 years ahead of its time, the US cut funds to Israel because it was a threat to the American technology of Boeing and Macdonald Douglas. Israel canclled the project, only 3 Lavis were ever built. Now its starting agian with Israels new Anti-Missle .. Missle, But I do understand that China is a "enemy" to the United States, but any sale to a enemy of our allies is unexceptable, and I agree with you about this, but AWACS aircraft are harmless ok? But About these missles I got no idea, they were probley sold before china was really a threat... I COULD JUST BE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING, I didnt read the whole thing but im just giving u some pointers on it, But dont forget, USA sold weapons to Enemy countries of Israel, so dont get all ticked off about whos screwing who here. Both countries made some bad decisions in there past and its all behind them now.

Take care..
dont get pissed at this aight?





User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Sorry, Beavis. A tad more complicated than your foray into Hip 101 paints it to be...aight? . There are serious issues between the two countries that aren't "all behind us." One doesn't need to be the tastiest fry in the Happy Meal to realize the PHALCON technology and much...not all, but much of the LAVI came from reverse engineered (or outright espionaged) US technology. And considering reverse engineering happens when the original inventors dont WANT you to know how it works, that's kind of a problem.

But pop a chill pill of your own, I'm not advocating military door slamming on Israel. I would guess that the same minority of nationalists ready to take on the rock throwing kids ...and every Arab on the other side of them all the way over to the Himalayas...are the same ones aggressively shopping around US tech, then telling us in no uncertain terms to pound it. They need to be dealt with, and only cooler Israeli heads can do that.

Bush says bounce Yassir...right on! And dont let the door hit Ariel in the ass either.


User currently offlineMish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

(Sorry, Beavis. A tad more complicated than your foray into Hip 101 paints it to be...aight?)

ok whatever u ment by that,

Im sorry guy, but ur wrong about ur reverse engineering here.
Just for your information every american plane that is bought by Israel, is totally converted to Israeli technology. There is no use for American technology for us. And I wouldent be to surprized if the Americans try to get plans for the Anti-MIssle Arrow 2 program, since u know.. the American version seemed to have failed its test, how many times now? 4?
While the ARrow2 is already in use, I bet you anything we will be sharing the technology probley sometime in the near future.

Do you know that the only reverse engineered was the KFIR aircraft, which came from the MIRAGE 3C, a French made aircraft. This reason for this was that the french were pricks and didnt give us our aircraft due to the 67 war.
So we stole the blue prints and made our own version. The blue prints were of the French, but the technology in the cockpit was 100% Israeli, like all the aircraft today in the I.A.F.

But our 2 allies share a lot and train a lot so there should be no conflict at all between the 2 countries and there people, so please dont feed me any of this north american b.s, cause u get it here in Canada also, you talk to people who dont even know where Israel is on the map, yet they seem to just suddently know how everything works there.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

http://www.mideastfacts.com/phalcon_fliesagain.html

You'll notice the quote from the Israeli Defense Ministry official..."the Americans know every piece of Phalcon and can influence what goes into it...."

That'd be kinda tough to do if it were truly an indigenous technology, wouldn't it?


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months ago) and read 2158 times:

Don't forget Jonathan Pollard, either - the traitor that caused the US the most damage through espionage, ever. He spied for the Israelis, who promptly traded the information he provided to the Soviets in exchange for Jewish emigrants - resulting in the deaths of a number of US agents. Clinton wanted to give him a Presidential Pardon but the heads of the CIA and the FBI dug their heels in and the Jewish lobby lost ... for once!

User currently offlinePanynj From Bahamas, joined Sep 2001, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2144 times:

Jamesag

It wasn't covered because that paper you read the article in, the Washington Times, is owned by some whacked out Korean cult. No one with half a brain takes those creeps seriously. Neither should you.



User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

I originally brought this up a few weeks ago. Selling our weapons isn't the only wrong Israel has done...how about blowing up the USS Liberty??? Or, hijacking the US government with powerful Zionist lobbies!? Why do we keep supporting Israel is the question...the answer...the lobbies in a Democratically controlled Congress have Bush by his balls...that's why!

B4e


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Boeing4ever:
...the answer...the lobbies in a Democratically controlled Congress have Bush by his balls...that's why!

Congress is controlled by the Republicans. The Democrats have a one seat advantage in the Senate.


The US support for Israel is bi-partisan. Both parties are blindly pro-Israel.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

Boy tnnh is gonna be  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed at this. It should be interesting to see what BS he comes up with to counter these facts.  Laugh out loud

B4e


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Both parties are blindly pro-Israel

They're not BLINDLY pro-Israel...they still see GREEN

My two cents, ten cents, and fifty cents,
B4e


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Boeing4ever:
OK I should have clarified myself. The Pro-Israel lobby has lots of green so both parties will jump on it in a second.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

Of course the Americans know what would be in the Phalcon, we want to sell it so we inform them of everything in it, like I said before, its not like it was a real threat, its only a AWACS aircraft it wasent really customized, it was just converted into a AWACS for sale.

(((Selling our weapons isn't the only wrong Israel has done...how about blowing up the USS Liberty??? Or, hijacking the US government with powerful Zionist lobbies!? Why do we keep supporting Israel is the question)))

what the hell are you talking about?


anyways..
just remeber im not trying to argue or cause a rukus with you all ..
ok..
I see a lot of post about Israel and palastine lately I like to join them, but they always end up with such b.s. that nobody really knows what they are talking about in the end.. lets not let it happen to this one.


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

(((Selling our weapons isn't the only wrong Israel has done...how about blowing up the USS Liberty??? Or, hijacking the US government with powerful Zionist lobbies!? Why do we keep supporting Israel is the question)))

what the hell are you talking about?

So you've never heard of the USS Liberty eh? It would be a US intelligence ship that sustained repeated attack by Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats during one of Israel's many wars with its Arab neighbors. Ring a bell? A Liberty Bell perhaps?

B4e


User currently offlineMish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

no dosent ring a bell and I would usally know about something like this, my history is one of my strong subjects, let me speak to some of the other Israelis, casue I never heard of Israelis attacking americans, never ever..
I know we stole some Dc-3`s from the US after WW2, and if we did bomb this it probley was before the 50`s

ill check on it ..


User currently offlineFlyVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Not this Lobby crap again. Most congressman are pro-Israel, some are not. The ones for Israel will recieve money from the Z lobby, the others who do not will recieve money from the Arab lobby. I work with politicians on a daily basis. Your assumption that they support Israel only for the Jewish money is wrong.


Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Well Mish1234, it appears that History is not one of your strongest subjects.

J



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineMish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Well apprenatly so
but I never heard of this before..
so I got no idea if its really true
and im not going to belive this, show me some proof.


User currently offlineQatarAirways From Qatar, joined Sep 2008, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

"and im not going to belive this, show me some proof."

http://www.ussliberty.org If you want more proof head on over to http://www.av.com or http://www.google.com and type in USS Liberty.


User currently offlineMish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Well Thank you, you showed me proof, thats all I asked for.
Now I know of this.

This is intresteing, but as I was reading in all of the sites. The attack was "an accident", If they were in International waters, what were they doing beside Gaza? That is arab waters my friend. We were in a war, accidents happen, just like the latest attack by the states in afghanastian when they bombed that village. Or even the bombing of the Canadian Troops. They are accidents.
not to mention the states and israel werent in really close relationship, it was only after the 67 war when things took off.


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Mish1234,

You have access to the largest resource in the world. The Internet. USE IT. These people have indicated to you a very important piece of history and you then ask them to show you proof? Go look yourself,continuing to talk from a position of ignorance does not help your credibility.





VH-ADG


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

Then of course there are other Israeli 'accidents' such as the shooting down of a Boeing 727 in clear daylight by the IAF.

25 Boeing in pdx : The USS liberty was spying on Israel probably for the Arabs. so if you were Israel and you detected spying of your country what would you do.
26 777236ER : The USS liberty was spying on Israel probably for the Arabs. so if you were Israel and you detected spying of your country what would you do. So the A
27 Boeing4ever : The USS liberty was spying on Israel probably for the Arabs. so if you were Israel and you detected spying of your country what would you do. What ara
28 Mish1234 : Im sorry but that Cdn Troops accident was not a high altitude bombing, the pilot came in and looked at the actual firing and people below. He saw them
29 Boeing in pdx : We did not sell them weapons in the 6 day war. they had all French weapons.
30 Boeing in pdx : And this does not look like a ship that was repeatedly attacked. http://ussliberty.org/g/lg/lg0031.jpg
31 Mish1234 : Yes im very aware that we only had french stuff. like as I said--> (((Do you know that the only reverse engineered was the KFIR aircraft, which came f
32 Cedarjet : Mish1234, how can you doubt the truth of the 727 shootdown? Never heard of it? What's wrong with you?! An Air France (operating for Libyan AL) 727 was
33 SAS23 : Mish1234, sorry to rain on your parade, but IAI did not reverse engineer the Mirage - they stole the blueprints and engineering documents from a Swiss
34 Mish1234 : Can I have proof? Agian im sorry I need proof. Cedarjet: I dont hate all Arabs, and yes I am Pro-Israeli 100%, ive lived with Arabs before, I know wha
35 Post contains images SAS23 : Mish 1234, no you didn't "say blueprints also, my friend" you said: (((Do you know that the only reverse engineered was the KFIR aircraft, which came
36 Mish1234 : (((So we stole the blue prints and made our own version. The blue prints were of the French, but the technology in the cockpit was 100% Israeli, like
37 SAS23 : Mish1234 - my apologies, I see now that you did say that in your first post. I completely overlooked that ... but of course it means that you were awa
38 Lubcha132 : Because the Israelis have never started anything. Every act, all the wars were unprovoked. '67, 6-day, Yom Kippur, the recent stuff, all of that was s
39 777236ER : Starting anything or not, the fact remains that Israel isn't as perfect as some people would like to make out. YES it is better than certain others in
40 SAS23 : Lubcha, sorry but the Six Day War was started by the Israelis as a pre-emptive strike against the Egyptians and Syrians. 777236ER ... and don't forget
41 Boeing in pdx : In the six day war the Arabs blockaded Israel. A blockade is a act of war!. You have no evidence for your accusations from neutral sources that are no
42 Post contains images Mish1234 : Sas23 is right, The 67 war was started by Israel only because it was a nessacary move, It was either us or them, so instead of us getting a suprize at
43 Jamesag96 : I just spent the last ten minutes writing a response to the level of ignorance I have seen in this thread, but figured it wouldn't do any good so I ju
44 777236ER : nd no nation on earth is perfect or even close to it THAT INCLUDES THE UK Did I say that? Nope. I don't really care if America gives Israel billions o
45 GDB : It is thought the Liberty was attacked as they had picked up signals describing shootings of Egyptian prisoners in the Sinai. The Kfir had a US J79 en
46 Jamesag96 : Cut em loose and let them fend for themselves. J
47 ADG : And no nation on earth is perfect or even close to it THAT INCLUDES THE UK This type of argument is irrelevant and has no place in realistic discussio
48 Mish1234 : yeah im Israeli And yes the ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time, But hey, Russia And US were almost at war and now look at them, getting clo
49 ADG : And yes the ship was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I think that not only do the Americans disagree with you, i'm sure they felt (rightly so) t
50 Mish1234 : ADG: I cant see how Australia is a very close allie to the states. And belive me, they arent closer than Israel is to the states ok? Now im not going
51 SAS23 : Mish1234, you have already confirmed that Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against its neighbours in the Six Day War. Given that Israel now has a
52 ADG : ADG: I cant see how Australia is a very close allie to the states. No, I guess you couldn't ... after all, we haven't attacked any of their ships!!! A
53 Boeing in pdx : Iraq would not use nukes. They want to stay in power and are not guided by religion. Iran on the other hand must never get NBC Tech. The secular the b
54 Boeing in pdx : Australia never sent us the ships they promised at Coral sea and this contributed to the destruction of three U.S ships.
55 EmiratesLover : ``In the six day war the Arabs blockaded Israel. A blockade is a act of war!. '' Isnt that precisely the same argument that the Japanese used to attac
56 Go Canada! : emirates lover, what historian quoted ben gurion, yo may or may not know but several 'revionist' historians in israel distorted the words right out of
57 GDB : Bit unfair to the Aussies in WW2 Boeing in PDX, or did some stupid Hollywood movie say the Aussie navy let the US down? Australia was directly threate
58 Go Canada! : austrailia would have been closely linked to all uk operations in ww2, the country has always helped when called up, eg the turkish campaign in WW1 an
59 Mish1234 : ADG: 1981 F-16`s bombed sadams nuclear and bio weapons factory. IF it wasent for that attack, they would already had there nukes ages ago, thanks to t
60 SAS23 : Mish1234, I thought it was the French that provided Iraq with the reactor at Osirak, along with the uranium to fuel it?
61 ADG : Comparing their unstinting support of the US with Israel's is absurd. And I'm a Pom! God knows what Aussie A.Net members will say!!! Nothing, we chuck
62 Mish1234 : Hey ADG: Whats this? On June 7th 1981, IAF planes attacked the Iraqi nuclear reactor and destroyed it in a single bombing run. The attack was carried
63 Mish1234 : Sas23: yes you are correct actually, im thinking about the wars agianst Israel, they were all russian military technology, the best for its time in th
64 LY744 : "What rubbish .. America was instrumental in the postive UN vote in 1947 and have been supporting Israel ever since" Is that why people were sent to j
65 Jamesag96 : I have a question here as I am not fully up to speed on the rules of the forums, can I suggest someone for deletion based on their clear and repeated
66 Lubcha132 : And all the countries of the world are perfect? We have countries in the middle east training kids to DIE and blow up innocent people with them. Count
67 Boeing4ever : But who cares when you can find dirt on the Jews/Israelis that happened 20 years ago. Just remember that the Israelis never started with anyone. All t
68 Boeing4ever : No Israeli with half a brain will admit to that. The Arabs were about to anihilate Israel, Israel hardly started anything. Mish1234 admitted it, altho
69 Post contains images Panynj : your funny! "my whole damn coinbox" haha!
70 Boeing4ever : your funny! "my whole damn coinbox" haha! Still childish...you realize that this is a debate over why the US keeps supporting a country that attacks i
71 Jamesag96 : Did I miss something? Was there a post deleted? And how many B4e's are there or is my computer acting weird? It looks like two B4e's are haggling abou
72 Mish1234 : ((Even an Israeli stated that they started the 67 war.)) Yeah well we arent stupid, The Arabs were ready to attack anyday. And it was proven also. Wha
73 Post contains links Boeing4ever : James, a couple of tnnh's posts were deleted, now I look like I have multiple personality disorder, I know. Shame the mods deleted tnnh so soon, I was
74 Jamesag96 : B4E, thanks for the clearing that up. Makes sense more sense now. Regards, J
75 Boeing in pdx : "The aircraft crashed after being hit by a surface to air missile fired by an Israeli fighter jet. The Boeing had strayed off course and violated Isra
76 Mish1234 : dude you are right? how could it be hit by a SAM missle if it was shot by a plane.. wahhhh ! Isnt this during the Yom Kippur war anyways? 1973 Feb.. i
77 LY744 : It was prior to the war. Talk about straying off topic, I don't know how you people got to the Lybian 727, that desperate? LY744.
78 Go Canada! : boeing forever,im not sure whether you though i was wrong or whether it was tnnh, since posts have been deleted. i stated that france and the uk decla
79 Post contains images Boeing4ever : I presmue from what you said that 'no matter what you say poland isnt in the uk and france' (directed at tnnh?)that you agree with my point? I need to
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