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No More Saturday Letters  
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1865 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1460 times:
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The US Postal service will end it's Saturday non-parcel delivery on August 1st. They still need congressional approval. So it's hard to see how they have set a date without said approval.

http://www.nytimes.com/chrome/#/Top+...lans-to-end-saturday-delivery.html


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

To me it is no big deal and probably a good idea to keep the service and balance the costs better. They will still do parcel deliveries though.

Quite frankly I wish the USPS was allowed to do most all of its planned changes (like closing many local small PO's, laying off and reducing staff) but the Congress (both parties) interfered as their constituents said "Don't affect my service!" and no one cared to address the cost problems.

With all this it is still one of the best values and best postal services in the world.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1430 times:
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Hopefully Congress will allow the changes to take place. There really isn't a need to have Saturday delivery. You have to pay extra for FedEx or UPS to deliver on Saturday, why not USPS? Pretty much every business is shut down on Saturdays anyways. It's not like it is vital to deliver the mail that day. But then again some politicians just seem to want allow it's continued freefall.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1409 times:
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Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 2):
There really isn't a need to have Saturday delivery.

They are still going to deliver packages on saturdays.

What's crazy is the US Government does most of is shipping with the USPS competitors. That's seems like paying twice to send the same package. We pay for the FedEx shipping and we pay the Postal Service because of the lost business to the FedEx shipping.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1400 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 3):
What's crazy is the US Government does most of is shipping with the USPS competitors. That's seems like paying twice to send the same package. We pay for the FedEx shipping and we pay the Postal Service because of the lost business to the FedEx shipping.

The USPS is not funded by the government. It has been bailed out once and may need another (due to rules imposed by Congress) but it does its best to pay its bills. That is why I wish the Congress would get out of the way and let the USPS actually mange itself. And I am glad the USG uses the lowest cost option for deliveries.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1400 times:

I've been a postman one summer and for the first half I did mail/small packages on a bike, Saturday was really brutal with the most mail of the week (along with Friday) and less time to sort and deliver it (the office closing midday). I would have loved to have the full weekend to rest ! Then the other half I was in a van delivering mail and packages to companies, most of them being closed on Saturday it was much nicer. Had to be quick on Friday though, since about half of them were also closed that day's afternoon (35h work week).


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6087 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1381 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
Quite frankly I wish the USPS was allowed to do most all of its planned changes (like closing many local small PO's, laying off and reducing staff)

I don't have any trouble with it either, but only as long as some type of facility is there to mail things. Around Detroit and I assume other cities there are local businesses with a small contract post office in them. Of the two near me one is in a gas station and the other is in a convenience store. I like going to them both because the hours are great and I don't have to cut out of work early, or on break, to mail something.

If you lived in a small town and the post office closed down, it would be a pain in the butt to have to drive over to another town to mail things. Many time USPS is the cheapest way to send something. If you are going to send a large envelope overseas UPS and FedEx charge an arm and leg.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
I don't have any trouble with it either, but only as long as some type of facility is there to mail things. Around Detroit and I assume other cities there are local businesses with a small contract post office in them. Of the two near me one is in a gas station and the other is in a convenience store. I like going to them both because the hours are great and I don't have to cut out of work early, or on break, to mail something.

If you lived in a small town and the post office closed down, it would be a pain in the butt to have to drive over to another town to mail things.

I agree, as I remember it the plan was to close and out source a lot of the smaller PO's and instead go to the type of operations like you mention. It was what helped raise the ire of the public, the thought of their little local PO closing and instead they have to go to a "Quiki Mart".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8219 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1370 times:

The Post Office serves individuals and companies at a level that neither FedEx or UPS could match. Starting with every house, apartment building and business serviced every day. That scope is far beyond the abilities of private companies.

Some comments, like the need for package delivery 6 days a week because of medications being shipped, are both logical & necessary. For the letters and junk mail all the Saturday closing will mean is more mail sorted by the carriers on Mondays.

Maybe we need to look at all the free mail that the Post Office has to deliver for various branches of government, including politicians. Some of that demand has been reduced, like the electronic deposits of Social Security checks, but there is still a burden that the Treasury should pay for, just like I have to.

One other factor for supporting the post office is their relationship with the very small businesses. Think sellers on eBay who can use the eBay system print a mailing label with postage attached. There is a small discount by using this system as it eliminates people standing in line at the PO - which costs money to service.


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1370 times:
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Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 3):
They are still going to deliver packages on saturdays.

I see that, but will they charge more for it? I understand trying to remain competitive, but if I ship something with FedEx or UPS and require Saturday delivery I have to pay extra. Financially it seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to throw a Saturday delivery fee on top of that. Even if it is just a couple of bucks. Now I know everybody hates fees, but the postal service is super cheap as is.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1350 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
If you lived in a small town and the post office closed down, it would be a pain in the butt to have to drive over to another town to mail things.
Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
It was what helped raise the ire of the public, the thought of their little local PO closing and instead they have to go to a "Quiki Mart".

Small towns are a huge cost drain for the USPS. An average small town with a post master and two rural route carriers will cost 100K per year in salaries and benefits, plus the amortized cost of the building and the utilties and upkeep costs.

So sub-contracting that operation to a small store would make business sense.

Provided the town actually has an operation store, staffed and willing to take on the job.

A lot, a few thousand, towns don't have a local alternate.

Also, closing the post office is going to remove three of the better paying jobs in town, with very likely no replacement jobs.

Congress, and the people of the United States have not made up their minds about the USPS.

Is it a quasi-government business, expected to run as a business?

Or, is the postal service an essential government service, like roads, which should be focused on service?

Trying to make it both will never work.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Thread starter):
So it's hard to see how they have set a date without said approval.

That puts the responsbility on the Congress to make a decision or risk being blamed for the no decision.

[Edited 2013-02-06 10:21:36]

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7773 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1336 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Or, is the postal service an essential government service, like roads, which should be focused on service?

Its Constitutionally mandated -- so I say it is an essential government service. At the same time USPS can be operated efficiently -- the whole government = inefficient is a fallacy and should not be an expectation. And Congress needs to allow the USPS to run efficiently and remove mandates like the ridiculous funding level that only the USPS has to provide towards its pension fund. The level of service that the USPS provides is quite mind boggling. Somebody comes to my house (ok technically the shared box half a block away) 6x a week to deliver letters to me? And does this for every address in the country? To be honest the level of service I receive in my local branch offices is pretty good too.

I know people like to crap on the post office but when I can send a letter or small package across the country in well under a week for cheap is pretty amazing. That said home delivery on Saturdays I could do without, but I'd still like some open offices on Saturday.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3164 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

It makes sense. Will pick up be available on Saturdays?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
I agree, as I remember it the plan was to close and out source a lot of the smaller PO's and instead go to the type of operations like you mention

Sweden did this more than 10 years ago. Not just in small places but every single office in the country. From what I understand there hasn't been any real problems. Post is still being delivered. They just do not have their own offices.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Some comments, like the need for package delivery 6 days a week because of medications being shipped, are both logical & necessary.

What medication is there that it is OK not to get on Sundays but you must have on Saturdays?

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 11):
the whole government = inefficient is a fallacy and should not be an expectation

  
They can be extremely efficient if we let them.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6087 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1292 times:
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Quoting DesertJets (Reply 11):
Somebody comes to my house (ok technically the shared box half a block away) 6x a week to deliver letters to me? And does this for every address in the country? To be honest the level of service I receive in my local branch offices is pretty good too.

I always think that it is kind of neat that I can affix a stamp on a letter and send it anywhere in the world in a matter of days. There really is a lot of value in a stamp.

Yes the post office does offer a great deal of services that many people find useful. Besides just being able to send mail, you can get a PO box, apply for a passport, and get a money order. You can also have your mail held or forwarded to another address without any problem.

People bitch and moan about the post office, but I find it a unique place. When I was a kid my Boy Scout troop (which wasn't very big) got a tour of the post office terminal in Denver. We walked all over that building and saw all kinds of neat machines and equipment. It was really an amazing place that mail could move through it so fast and get all over the world in no time.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8219 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1237 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Or, is the postal service an essential government service, like roads, which should be focused on service?

The Post Office should be considered a government service and should receive funding from Congress for expenses in excess of revenues. That isn't complicated, especially when you consider al the government departments & politicians who use the service vigorously.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
That puts the responsbility on the Congress to make a decision or risk being blamed for the no decision.

Don't look for Congress to meet their obligations. Not these days. All I see is the stripping the Post Office of cash for some future obligation. Just saw on CNN that the House has 5 post Offices just for them. When those Representatives need 5 stations for their own use something is a bit queer.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 11):
I know people like to crap on the post office but when I can send a letter or small package across the country in well under a week for cheap is pretty amazing.

They do a pretty good job - especially when you look at the scope of their operations.

Quoting cmf (Reply 13):
What medication is there that it is OK not to get on Sundays but you must have on Saturdays?

There are a lot of medications that are not time sensitive in themselves, but there are patients who need those meds. Considering that these med packs are mailed out every day it is not difficult to understand that a 2 day wait is going to be a challenge for some people.


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5388 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
The Post Office serves individuals and companies at a level that neither FedEx or UPS could match. Starting with every house, apartment building and business serviced every day. That scope is far beyond the abilities of private companies.

UPS and FedEx would be more than capable of handling the service that the USPS does, if there was a need. Certainly they would have to ramp up and hire more and expand considerably, but, what the USPS does is not outside the scope of private enterprise. Especially, since the USPS depends on that very same private enterprise to move their packages.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 11):
Somebody comes to my house (ok technically the shared box half a block away) 6x a week to deliver letters to me? And does this for every address in the country?

I'm not sure they deliver to every address everyday. I think that in some rural areas the frequency is lower or the mail is delivered to a central collection point. I could be wrong.

Now, while postal service is a Constitutionally mandated service, when they entered the express business they entered in direct competition with UPS, FedEx and others. For that reason, they should not be subsidized by the government. That would provide an unfair advantage.

There are some negatives to discontinuing Saturday service, but, overall, I think it's a good thing. $2 billion , while a rounding error to the overall budget, is pretty significant when you have to account for yourself, as the USPS does.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8219 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1180 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
UPS and FedEx would be more than capable of handling the service that the USPS does, if there was a need.

If you spend some time considering the massive capital infrastructure that both UPS & FedEx would need to replace the USPS it is

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
when they entered the express business they entered in direct competition with UPS, FedEx and others. For that reason, they should not be subsidized by the government. That would provide an unfair advantage.

The USPS has been delivering packages all my 68 years. Various options has also been available during those years. These days you still have those options and they include Express packages. FedEx & UPS are the ones that entered into direct competition with the USPS and the Post Office has every right to compete against them. Their relationship with eBay is just one example of how that competition is going.

In terms of unfair advantage, FedEx and UPS was able to grow at a limited rate and they still are able to avoid the capital investments that the Post Office has to make.


User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1174 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
UPS and FedEx would be more than capable of handling the service that the USPS does, if there was a need. Certainly they would have to ramp up and hire more and expand considerably, but, what the USPS does is not outside the scope of private enterprise. Especially, since the USPS depends on that very same private enterprise to move their packages.

And FedEx and UPS also rely on USPS to deliver their packages. For example, I've had a number of Amazon.com packages shipped via UPS, which were delivered to the post office here (Chicago, not exactly a small town), so the postal carrier could deliver them to my home (large condo on the edge of downtown, not exactly a suburban middle-of-nowhere development).

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
For that reason, they should not be subsidized by the government. That would provide an unfair advantage.

Are they subsidized by the government?



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1148 times:

Compared to almost all other developed countries, the USA has about the cheapest basic 1st Class postage rates.
But for perhaps Russia, we probably have more areas to be served by our postal service that almost any other country. The USPS serves from Nome, Alaska, to Guam, to Puerto Rico, from Vancouver, WA to Venice, FL, Portland, ME to Portland, OR. They serve from the bottom of the Grand Canyon to mountain communities at 12,000 feet. If you are not home for FedEx or UPS, you may have to travel many miles to one of their stations to pick up your package while If sent by USPS, you can pick it up on a Saturday morning at your local station.

In the 1880's the then Post Office created RFD, rural free delivery, to make sure all Americans, especially millions of farmers, ranchers and loggers could get mail and more importantly goods by mail without any surcharges. RFD caused the Amazon's of their time like Sears and their catalogs become huge businesses to allow people to get goods much cheaper and more conveniently than from high priced and limited product local stores. Today they do the same thing for Amazon and the huge numbers of E-Bay and other online sellers at a cheaper price and better convenience for them vs. UPS and FedEx.

There are certain very important legal papers that can only be served by USPS Certified Mail, Registered Mail and Express Mail and not by private companies.

As to the end of Saturday non-parcel delivery, that will face a big fight from rural voters, certain mass mailers, locations with no or very limited Internet service, small businesses, the Postal workers unions and communities pressuring every member of Congress and the Senate.

I don't deny the reality of the sharp declines in 1st class mail due to the Internet and increasing use of e-services. A reduction of the onorous mandates of their pension contributions is very much needed, to bring in in line with real long term needs and not some way to make the general government deficits look less worse. Some small communities need a agency station, as done in the past at local 'general stores' with contracted municipal centers or local convenience stores with some sales commissions paid to them. Much of rural mail is already done by contracted individuals, regional distribution by small and large contract companies. Perhaps we don't need as many full service post offices in every community, perhaps more use of regional post offices for sorting and delivery bases, especially in suburban areas would help reduce ops costs.


User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6287 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1130 times:

I think they should quit delivering on Wednesday also. At least residential services, they should also put the self service stamp machines back and get rid of one of the people always standing around behind the counter doing nothing.


Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1125 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
Quite frankly I wish the USPS was allowed to do most all of its planned changes (like closing many local small SA)">PO's, laying off and reducing staff) but the Congress (both parties) interfered as their constituents said "Don't affect my service!" and no one cared to address the cost problems.

Everyone looks at this issue from their OWN standpoint; in your case, you're probably young, have a car, and are in reasonable health; I live in a small village; we were advised that our small "one person" Post Office was "on the chopping block"; here's the BIG problem; the SA)">PO not only serves the village, it serves people in a 10 or 12 mile radius; many of these people are quite elderly; many don't even have a car; some couldn't drive, or afford to maintain a car it the government GAVE them one. These are are the people who REALLY depend on the SA)">PO; as far as closing on Sat......that should have been implemented 10 years ago. (IMO)

Personally, my wife and I are in a somewhat "unusual" situation, relative to postal service; we live about 1/2 mile from the village SA)">PO, on a gravel road. We have daily delivery to our house, 5 days a week, to our mail box out front; but it DOESN'T come from the Village SA)">PO (which is 47836) It comes from a BIGGER SA)">PO, 10 miles away, (which is 47874)

Now......I only use ONE prescription med; an opthalmic solution, (which I order as a "three pack" 90 day supply, from a VERY GOOD supplier in Canada; getting my order isn't "time sensitive", but it SA) and Eagle Air/Arnaflug (Iceland)">IS "temperature sensitive"; (they ship the stuff in a "cold pack" containing "dry ice"; because of that, I MUST have it delivered to the Village SA)">PO, as it's "air conditioned, and heated. If I absolutely had to, I could drive either to Brazil (8 miles), or Terre Haute, (25 miles) However, that would necessitate renting a "box" to receive ONE small carton 4 times per year; (which would be a huge pain in the butt)

Now........much has been mentioned about........"efficiency"; here's the BIG problem with THAT; our "Government" has NO problem handing out FREE health care, FREE food, FREE education, (and a VERY long list off various "freebies" to people who routinely BREAK our laws, etc.etc.etc.etc. But at the very same time, they are so very "concerned" that our Postal System isn't "operating efficiently"..........to which I say.....BS !

And those are just the "tips of the ice bergs"; there are many more things to consider when discussing the Postal Service, but the above should be more than sufficient for the moment.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Small towns are a huge cost drain for the USPS. An average small town with a post master and two rural route carriers will cost 100K per year in salaries and benefits, plus the amortized cost of the building and the utilties and upkeep costs.

Sorry Chief, but it's nothing like that here; Our "P.O." is a dinkey wooden "structure" which the Poastal Service rents for a VERY nominal fee, from a local individual. It has a "staff" of exactly.....1 (as in "one") and NO deliveries; place is locked outside of business hours, AND on all "Gubmint Hollidays" (of which there more than I can count)

(Great Idea !) Want to discuss "further efficiency" in "Gubmint In-efficiency" ? Take a close look at, then a chain saw to "Gubmint Hollidays" !

Let's face it folks......the United States Government is the most "inefficient" organization in all of recorded history, the people who "run it" are by far, the most arrogant, self-serving, dis-honest, "do as we ORDER, not as we "do" bunch of individuals, (many who come in middle class, and leave 1% millionaires) in the history of the civilized world.......yet we continue to vote these SAME crooks back into office, year after year after year! There's an "old saying", "people get pretty much what they vote for". (which is our biggest problem, not our postal service)

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1092 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):

I'm curious, do you have some kind of special "screw up all the formatting to make the post unreadable" button?

But still, for one who's constantly posting messages of all sorts of a certain political slant, now that your "handout" is being threatened, suddenly you're worried about the poor and needy and those that can't afford to drive and those who are too infirm to drive, and how the government can't allow this service to be cut, and wah wah wah.

Just keep an eye on which political party's politicians are attacking the USPS, and which ones are defending the USPS, then report back to me.

Now, I recall it was you who started a thread a year or two ago about the deficit and how we should solve it, and I pointed out (roughly paraphrasing) that there are certain structural problems with how our society operates which are driving deficits on all levels of government. One of the big things that people don't think about is the actual development of cities and distribution of population. In other words, folks living in rural areas expecting the same services (at the same prices) as people living in urban areas.

So, you'll have no sympathy from me if one day the Post Office has to cut its deliveries to rural areas and you have to drive your 25 miles on government-subsidized roads to get to the post office box to pick up your meds. After all, where you live is a choice. If people were expected to pay the full costs associated with where they live, lots of things would be different in this country, including a reduction in the Post Office's deficit.

Remember, the political party you voted for was in charge of Congress and the White House when a law was passed that required the Postal Service to fund the pensions for future postal workers that aren't even born yet. So maybe you should take some responsibility for the votes you cast, or accept the consequences thereof.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Maybe we need to look at all the free mail that the Post Office has to deliver for various branches of government, including politicians. Some of that demand has been reduced, like the electronic deposits of Social Security checks, but there is still a burden that the Treasury should pay for, just like I have to.

That would be a start. Have the various departments and agencies pay for their services. But of course pawning off their expenses is just a way to hide a kind a tax and pass it own to the public.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
Is it a quasi-government business, expected to run as a business?

Or, is the postal service an essential government service, like roads, which should be focused on service?

Simple, it is both.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
UPS and FedEx would be more than capable of handling the service that the USPS does, if there was a need. Certainly they would have to ramp up and hire more and expand considerably, but, what the USPS does is not outside the scope of private enterprise. Especially, since the USPS depends on that very same private enterprise to move their packages.

I think you are being confused, UPS and FedEx utilize the USPS for "final mile" services that they cannot provide cost effectively. Remember they have to produce a profit while the USPS is essentially a not-for-profit entity and the USPS is designed for delivery to all localities. The key advantage that private carriers have always had is that they can pick and choose selected profitable routes and destinations and services.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
Now, while postal service is a Constitutionally mandated service, when they entered the express business they entered in direct competition with UPS, FedEx and others. For that reason, they should not be subsidized by the government. That would provide an unfair advantage.

They are not subsidized by the USG. It provides approximately 0.01% of the funding and that is to support the services the USG uses of the USPS.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
Now......I only use ONE prescription med; an opthalmic solution, (which I order as a "three pack" 90 day supply, from a VERY GOOD supplier in Canada; getting my order isn't "time sensitive", but it SA) and Eagle Air/Arnaflug (Iceland)">IS "temperature sensitive"; (they ship the stuff in a "cold pack" containing "dry ice"; because of that, I MUST have it delivered to the Village SA)">PO, as it's "air conditioned, and heated. If I absolutely had to, I could drive either to Brazil (8 miles), or Terre Haute, (25 miles) However, that would necessitate renting a "box" to receive ONE small carton 4 times per year; (which would be a huge pain in the butt)

With this you are indicating that you are at worst inconvenienced and certainly not injured by PO closing for a day. And simple adjustments could remove most any serious issues. By the way, Saturday package delivery will still continue.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
Now........much has been mentioned about........"efficiency"; here's the BIG problem with THAT; our "Government" has NO problem handing out FREE health care, FREE food, FREE education, (and a VERY long list off various "freebies" to people who routinely BREAK our laws, etc.etc.etc.etc. But at the very same time, they are so very "concerned" that our Postal System isn't "operating efficiently"..........to which I say.....BS !

Why do you say BS? Yes the USPS is efficient but that doesn't mean it is operating at the level it needs to meet it operating budget. These are simple changes that will not horribly impact you or most people in need of postal services.
And just so you know, much will be still functioning, just the delivery will be halted:

Quote:
The postal service plans to continue Saturday delivery of packages, which remains a profitable and growing part of the delivery business. Post offices would remain open on Saturdays so that customers can drop off mail or packages, buy postage stamps or access their post office boxes, officials said. But hours likely would be reduced at thousands of smaller locations, they said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...-11e2-a050-b83a7b35c4b5_story.html

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
And those are just the "tips of the ice bergs"; there are many more things to consider when discussing the Postal Service, but the above should be more than sufficient for the moment.

It's not really. There are lots of things that are "needed" and "important" that the government provides but that still need to be cut. And the USPS is not funded by the USG, it is self funded but mismanaged by the Congress.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
Sorry Chief, but it's nothing like that here; Our "P.O." is a dinkey wooden "structure" which the Poastal Service rents for a VERY nominal fee, from a local individual. It has a "staff" of exactly.....1 (as in "one") and NO deliveries; place is locked outside of business hours, AND on all "Gubmint Hollidays" (of which there more than I can count)

Sorry Chief, but what you are describing has already been described and it sounds like a contracted station.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
(Great Idea !) Want to discuss "further efficiency" in "Gubmint In-efficiency" ? Take a close look at, then a chain saw to "Gubmint Hollidays" !

OK. And? That is your solution? One thing shouldn't be done "...because it might affect me! We have to keep what I like. Let's do something else instead!" You are being part of the problem Geez. We need to do it all. You talk that this should not be done because of something unrelated (that the USG is more inefficient).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
in your case, you're probably young,

Ok, and how young are you? I ask because...

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):

Let's face it folks......the United States Government is the most "inefficient" organization in all of recorded history, the people who "run it" are by far, the most arrogant, self-serving, dis-honest, "do as we ORDER, not as we "do" bunch of individuals, (many who come in middle class, and leave 1% millionaires) in the history of the civilized world.......yet we continue to vote these SAME crooks back into office, year after year after year! There's an "old saying", "people get pretty much what they vote for". (which is our biggest problem, not our postal service)

You and a lot of people may feel this way, but I really think you need to get in touch with your history here. We live in an age of unparrelled wealth and ease. You can send a letter somewhere and have it arrive in a matter of days for far less than a dollar. This much hated gov't of yours also ensures that you have safe roads, power lines, cleaner air than the industrial age has ever seen, and above all else, Standards. For everything from your medications to the safety of your car, to the potable water you use, and about a thousand other vital things we don't even think about.

You're old, right? Think that happened by accident? When was the last time you were involved in a plague of truly Epidemic proportions? And I don't mean the bird flu, I mean something that actually changes the shape and size of the population at large. Unless you were alive in 1918, the answer is never.

Have you had to worry about your village being raided by feudal tribes (I guess we call those bandits and warlords now)? Probably not. These things were real concerns to just about everybody ever until about 100 years ago. Technology helped a lot, but having a strong governmental infrastructure to get it where it needed to be, and to safely regulate it is a key part of this progress.

Yes there are downsides, because there are downsides to everything! But what exactly are you advocating? You want the removal of beaurocracy & governmental oversight? If so, you're in luck, for there is a place that has none of the gov't problems you're concerned with. No "Arrogant" crooks that keep getting voted into office, or officious DMV types to deal with. But just a word of caution, you'll have to grow a beard ZZ Top would be proud of, wear pyjamas all day, and make friends with the guys who ride around in pickup trucks with co-ax machine guns. If you can deal with that, than Afghanistan is just the kind of no-gov't paradise for you.

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 22):
Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):

I'm curious, do you have some kind of special "screw up all the formatting to make the post unreadable" button?

Seriously Geezer, this cartoon has a point. Your posts are kind of hard to read sometimes.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 13):
Sweden did this more than 10 years ago. Not just in small places but every single office in the country. From what I understand there hasn't been any real problems. Post is still being delivered. They just do not have their own offices.

So has the Netherlands. Very few actual post officers are left - they have been replaced by in-store kiosks and pick-up/delivery. Works quite well actually. If I miss a delivery, I just go pick it up the next day at the local supermarket. If I need to send a package, I can do it at the supermarket, local greeting card store, etc. In 4 years of living here I haven't needed a "real" post office once. The US already has these to an extent ... mini post offices in supermarkets, kiosks, etc. Why not expand this and start phasing out some of the larger, more expensive locations. A supermarket employee making $11 an hour can just as easily sell stamps, print labels, and calculate postage as a government employee with full benefits and pension.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 21):
Everyone looks at this issue from their OWN standpoint; in your case, you're probably young, have a car, and are in reasonable health; I live in a small village; we were advised that our small "one person" Post Office was "on the chopping block"; here's the BIG problem; the SA)">PO not only serves the village, it serves people in a 10 or 12 mile radius; many of these people are quite elderly; many don't even have a car; some couldn't drive, or afford to maintain a car it the government GAVE them one. These are are the people who REALLY depend on the SA)">PO; as far as closing on Sat......that should have been implemented 10 years ago. (IMO)

See above. Why couldn't some sort of outsourced situation solve this issue?

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 22):
So, you'll have no sympathy from me if one day the Post Office has to cut its deliveries to rural areas and you have to drive your 25 miles on government-subsidized roads to get to the post office box to pick up your meds. After all, where you live is a choice. If people were expected to pay the full costs associated with where they live, lots of things would be different in this country, including a reduction in the Post Office's deficit.

  

Why can't they come via UPS or FedEx? If it's really only the post office that can make such deliveries, would you support increases taxes (or postage charges) in order to make this happen?


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5388 posts, RR: 14
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 971 times:

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 18):
Are they subsidized by the government?

No, but they did receive at least one bailout. Of course, they are not the only entity to receive one and I'm not even suggesting that they didn't "deserve it".

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
FedEx & UPS are the ones that entered into direct competition with the USPS and the Post Office has every right to compete against them.

I'm not saying the USPS does not have the right to compete against UPS and FedEx. But, since the USPS is a quasi-governmental agency, care must be taken to ensure a level playing field.

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
They are not subsidized by the USG.

No, they aren't. But, USPS operations are subsidized by the government granted monopoly power they have in delivering the first class mail. And, clearly, that isn't enough anymore because of the drop off in people that actually mail things.

So, the USPS does have to act like a corporation that is expected to make money while maintaining service. Trimming Saturdays is a step in the right direction.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 954 times:

Quoting rwsea (Reply 25):
So has the Netherlands. Very few actual post officers are left - they have been replaced by in-store kiosks and pick-up/delivery. Works quite well actually. If I miss a delivery, I just go pick it up the next day at the local supermarket. If I need to send a package, I can do it at the supermarket, local greeting card store, etc. In 4 years of living here I haven't needed a "real" post office once. The US already has these to an extent ... mini post offices in supermarkets, kiosks, etc. Why not expand this and start phasing out some of the larger, more expensive locations. A supermarket employee making $11 an hour can just as easily sell stamps, print labels, and calculate postage as a government employee with full benefits and pension.

I am sure WalMart would love to be part of something like that. Gives them something for their trucks to haul BACK to their distribution centers.... I imagine they would be very effective and efficient as postal contractor.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 950 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 26):
I'm not saying the USPS does not have the right to compete against UPS and FedEx. But, since the USPS is a quasi-governmental agency, care must be taken to ensure a level playing field.

Great. Do we reduce the USPS requirements or do we add to UPS and FedEx?


User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 948 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
I am sure WalMart would love to be part of something like that. Gives them something for their trucks to haul BACK to their distribution centers.... I imagine they would be very effective and efficient as postal contractor.

Well in this case the letter carriers and distribution are still handled by the postal service (which I believe is actually a private company), but the front-end "retail" experience has almost been entirely phased out. I think the entire city of Amsterdam has only 1 or 2 true post offices.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 924 times:

Some are saying that FedEx and UPS could do the job, but are they even interested ? I mean, they're in business to make a profit. You can probably get the USPS to an equilibrium or even a small profit, but I doubt you can make it worth any kind of serious investment.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7867 posts, RR: 52
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 910 times:

Good, if I had my way, it would be Monday-Wednesday-Friday service if they couldn't get their act together. Maybe it's because I'm part of the new generation and I hardly ever use mail... do most stuff online. I can see limited service on the off days like medication (maybe) but I don't see why even that would be needed unless the medication is delivered in 1 and 2 day increments or something (which sounds woefully inefficient anyway)

In the long run, they are going to have to do a lot more than cut days to balance their budget



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5388 posts, RR: 14
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 900 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 28):
Great. Do we reduce the USPS requirements or do we add to UPS and FedEx?

I think we are seeing where the USPS is reducing the requirements, or at least trying to. To interfere with UPS or FedEx would be interfering with a private company (yeah, I know, they're publically held, but you get the picture).

Quoting Aesma (Reply 30):
Some are saying that FedEx and UPS could do the job, but are they even interested ?

That's a good question and I think the answer is no, at least not as things stand. There is no way a UPS or FedEx can deliver their portfolio of products and deliver to every address everyday for $0.46 a letter.

This is why the USPS is in trouble, or at least part of the problem. They are attempting to go head to head with the private sector and are having a hard time doing it. I'd hazard that if the USPS went back to its core business of delivering First Class Mail and leaving the packages and express work to the private sector, they would, at the minimum, break-even.

Tell me: how can the USPS deliver an Express Letter for next day delivery for $19.95, while UPS charges $39.95 for the same level of service? The answer is: they can't do that....and stay solvent. They subsidize their express service with revenue from their government granted monopoly on First Class Mail. And, since First Class Mail has been on a steady decline, they don't have the revenue stream to maintain service at the levels they've promised and turn a profit.

Now, I will add something: since this is a constitutionally mandated power of Congress, I'll submit that I have no problem with providing for the USPS through the tax system, so long as they revert to their core business of delivering the mail and get out of express work and running little post office stores and any other ancillary things they have been doing.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 891 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
Good, if I had my way, it would be Monday-Wednesday-Friday service if they couldn't get their act together.

Don't like that idea. It means you need enough people to cover the country in one day but you only use them 60%. Better to split areas so that one part get things on Mondays, another on Tuesdays, etc. You could make daily delivery an option for businesses and have it as an option for deliveries to individuals.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
Maybe it's because I'm part of the new generation and I hardly ever use mail

You may not use it but two of the companies I work with sell via internet and 80-90% is shipped by USPS.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
I can see limited service on the off days like medication (maybe) but I don't see why even that would be needed unless the medication is delivered in 1 and 2 day increments or something (which sounds woefully inefficient anyway)

I do not understand how you can have something that time sensitive sent as standard mail.


User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 891 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
In the long run, they are going to have to do a lot more than cut days to balance their budget

The biggest way would be to get rid of the ridiculous rule that they fully fund health benefits for people that aren't even born yet. I recall reading that they'd be essentially breaking even if it weren't for that.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
This is why the USPS is in trouble, or at least part of the problem. They are attempting to go head to head with the private sector and are having a hard time doing it. I'd hazard that if the USPS went back to its core business of delivering First Class Mail and leaving the packages and express work to the private sector, they would, at the minimum, break-even.

Disagree. Express Mail is extra revenue, given the already necessary fixed expenses that they have to deal with. If they eliminated express mail, their expenses wouldn't go down significantly, if at all. Their revenue, however, would go down considerably. Basic math shows that would be a greater loss.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
so long as they revert to their core business of delivering the mail and get out of express work and running little post office stores and any other ancillary things they have been doing.

Those "other ancillary things" are what have been helping them stay afloat. It was only when congress in 2006 decided that the Postal Service should prefund retirehealth benefits for the next 75 years (meaning that there should be enough money in this account to take care of existing retirees, current employees when they retire, and future employees, many of which haven't even been born yet) that their financial performance really nosedived.

No other agency or organization in this country has that requirement. There is simply no reasonable justification whatsoever for that requirement to be placed on the USPS. But it is, thanks to the Republican-led in Congress in 2006. This has been said over and over again, yet people still think there's something "inefficient" about the USPS (and generally, automatically concluding that it must be because it's government, and therefore is just run by a bunch of lazy people and blah blah blah).

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 32):
Tell me: how can the USPS deliver an Express Letter for next day delivery for $19.95, while UPS charges $39.95 for the same level of service?

For one, they already have the infrastructure in place for most of it. It's just an add-on to existing service. Second, since Congress regulates and approves postal rate changes, the USPS can't set whatever price it wants. I'm sure they'd charge $30 if they could, but they can't. UPS and FedEx have a bit more freedom to charge whatever they want (to the extent that the market is willing to pay it), and it has nothing to do with what it costs UPS or FedEx to deliver that envelope. It's just simple economics. Price isn't dependent on cost, it's dependent on market demand, something that USPS is forbidden by law from responding to effectively.

Yet the USPS was still profitable until 2006 when the health care funding law was imposed on them, plunging them several billion into the red.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5498 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 890 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
Good, if I had my way, it would be Monday-Wednesday-Friday service if they couldn't get their act together. Maybe it's because I'm part of the new generation and I hardly ever use mail... do most stuff online. I can see limited service on the off days like medication (maybe) but I don't see why even that would be needed unless the medication is delivered in 1 and 2 day increments or something (which sounds woefully inefficient anyway)

In the long run, they are going to have to do a lot more than cut days to balance their budget

But the USPS is TRYING to be balanced and "get their act together", they have been for years now, but Congress won't let them. Last year beside asking for relief from the Saturday requirement they also proposed :

Quote:
With no financial relief in sight, the U.S. Postal Service is pushing ahead with planned cuts to more than 260 mail processing centers around the nation, part of a billion-dollar cost-cutting effort that will slow delivery of first-class mail.

In a statement Thursday, the cash-strapped agency said it had completed a review of closings to mail processing centers it had proposed last fall. Based on community input and other factors, the post office said, it will move forward with consolidations involving virtually all of the 252 facilities on the list, as well as up to 12 new locations, beginning in mid-May.

Of the 264 facilities, roughly 41 won't be closed or consolidated right away as the post office conducts additional reviews.

The consolidations are expected to result in a loss of roughly 35,000 jobs, which the post office hopes to achieve mainly through attrition. The agency described the move as a necessary cost-saving measure because of declining mail volume as people and businesses continue switching to the Internet in place of letters and paper bills.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-.../post-office-plans-35000-job-cuts/

This would have save some $3.3B alone, throw in the $2B from no Saturday delivery and you have a healthy, funded USPS that has balanced it books. But we should all remember the hue and cry that went up (from the unions to small towns and people like Geezer to Congressional members) and that Congress nixed the plan for the most part. They don't care if a budget is balanced, they just want to be keep things like they are because they are happy and don't want change.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 875 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 19):
There are certain very important legal papers that can only be served by USPS Certified Mail, Registered Mail and Express Mail and not by private companies.

Exactly. I don't know if it really matters if those business need Saturday deliveries, but companies that handle various legal documents (for instance, I used to process the disposition of bankruptcy cases involving a major corporation) and for certain states, you much have Delivery Confirmation or other services, as prescribed by state law.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5388 posts, RR: 14
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 871 times:

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 34):
If they eliminated express mail, their expenses wouldn't go down significantly, if at all.

Of course it would. The guarenteed delivery is a killer. It costs them money to move a letter or package from point a to point b in a defined amount of time. See below.

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 34):
For one, they already have the infrastructure in place for most of it

But they move a bunch of their Express and routine stuff via UPS and FedEx. The USPS contract is up for renewal this year and it is expected that the bulk will go to UPS. You do realize that the USPS pays for that, right?

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 34):
and it has nothing to do with what it costs UPS

Just as a point of reference, UPS's margin runs in the 6-7% range, which is up from about 1% in 2007. Most if that came from aggressive cost cutting.

Quoting hoMsar (Reply 34):
Second, since Congress regulates and approves postal rate changes, the USPS can't set whatever price it wants. I'm sure they'd charge $30 if they could, but they can't.

My point exactly. If they can't recoup the cost of a service through pricing, that service should be discontinued.

Quoting tugger (Reply 35):
But the USPS is TRYING to be balanced and "get their act together", they have been for years now, but Congress won't let them. Last year beside asking for relief from the Saturday requirement they also proposed :

I think this is a serious problem. They should either be allowed to act as a private company or Congress should take responsibility for them and treat them as any other agency. But, again, the proviso for that is that the USPS returns to its core business.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8219 posts, RR: 8
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 854 times:

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 20):

I think they should quit delivering on Wednesday also. At least residential services, they should also put the self service stamp machines back and get rid of one of the people always standing around behind the counter doing nothing.

There is no benefit in stopping a Wednesday delivery. The mail piles up and that means no cost savings - especially when there is a mix of First Class through junk mail.

The PO has some pretty intensive technology for customers. I've already mentioned the ability to generate shipping labels with potage paid on eBay's joint system with the PO. Walk into most and you'll see stamp machines and some have systems for package weighing/postage - allowing you to avoid standing in line.

But the PO's I go to always have people in line for a lot of services. I haven't seen anyone standing around doing nothing.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 795 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting tugger (Reply 4):
The USPS is not funded by the government. It has been bailed out once and may need another (due to rules imposed by Congress) but it does its best to pay its bills.

That's the double payment I am referring to. The post office doesnt even have a sales team, also they cant change their prices at will like the competition.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20130123/NEWS02/130129905



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8219 posts, RR: 8
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 755 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 37):
But they move a bunch of their Express and routine stuff via UPS and FedEx.

The USPS can easily contract to move mail & packages with airlines & air freight companies. Look at the boxes of mail that get loaded on the flights most people take. It is simply an effective way to move bulk from one city to another. Package delivery within a city or tows is also open to be farmed out. That's not a big deal iMO as it eliminates additional, unnecessary capital expenditures.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 37):
My point exactly. If they can't recoup the cost of a service through pricing, that service should be discontinued.

The USPS provides a government service to the country. Its importance has long been mown, which is why it is in the Constitution.

Don't look to these services being discontinued. That would cause more economic damage to this country than another 9/11.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 37):
They should either be allowed to act as a private company

We don't need another private company - especially the size of the Post Office.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 37):
or Congress should take responsibility for them and treat them as any other agency

Which is what should happen.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 37):
But, again, the proviso for that is that the USPS returns to its core business.

Delivering mail, including packages with legal postage attached, is a core business of the USPS. Various delivery options have been around before either FedEx or UPS was around. Start with "Special Delivery" - that was around before I was born.

Reality is that the USPS isn't trying to take business away from FedEx or UPS. Those two companies have been taking business away from the Post Office.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 712 times:

Considering how little mail we get on Saturdays (if we get any at all), I have no issues with the ending of Saturday mail delivery (except for packages). The amount of mail we receive has dropped off significantly in the last 18 months after my grandfather died and there are days during the week that we don't get any mail at all. Plus many of the mail order catalogs my grandparents receive finally quit sending their catalogs after years of saying "This may be your last catalog".

I'm sure there are people who could get by with Monday/Wednesday/Friday mail service.

Technology has reduced some of the demand for services like the Post Office and while their income has decreased (even with increasing postal rates), what has not gone down for them is their pension obligations and much like with what happened at GM, that hurts their bottom line.


User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 699 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 41):
what has not gone down for them is their pension obligations and much like with what happened at GM, that hurts their bottom line.

Except GM didn't have to fund post-retirement benefits for workers that haven't even been born yet.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 658 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting srbmod (Reply 41):
Technology has reduced some of the demand for services like the Post Office and while their income has decreased (even with increasing postal rates), what has not gone down for them is their pension obligations and much like with what happened at GM, that hurts their bottom line.

Something to remember is that some not-insignificant portion of the USPS's costs are steadily going up ~1% per year, simply because that's the rate of increase in the number of service points. IOW, every year they have to send mail carriers past 1% more mailboxes. In dense urban areas, a typical mail carrier can deliver to about 600-700 mail boxes in a day. It’s far less in rural areas. The number of mail items per delivery point per day is under 3.5 now, for which the post office probably gets about $1.10 in revenue.

Coupled with a reduction (absolute, not just per-service point) in mail volume, the USPS has a significant issue. While the pension issue is large (and magnified by their retiree healthcare pre-funding obligation*), there are significant operational cost issues. A rational business would be allowed to cut service and/or raise rates, neither of which is being allowed by Congress. Going to two or three days per week service and 70-80 cents for a first class letter (more in line with what other first-world post offices are charging) would make the post office hugely profitable (so obviously we wouldn't go that far, but right now the USPS is by law not allowed to raise rates any faster than inflation, regardless of costs).

And let’s not get started on FedEx or UPS – for the rough equivalent of a first class letter (letter size, three day delivery), both charge about $8 to small customers. Word is that really big customers pay about half of that. I’m sure the financial outlook of the USPS would be rather better at those rates…


*It's not unreasonable, but no one else (public or private) is being required to do it, nor is the timeframe and period necessarily reasonable - why 75 years, and why does the 75 year shortfall have to be made up in only ten years?


User currently onlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11573 posts, RR: 15
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 618 times:

Which carrier is it who delivers to the military? Which carrier is it who delivers to villages in Alaska? How much would the other carriers charge if they actually delivered to those places? Plus, USPS is not taxpayer funded.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 595 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):
Plus, USPS is not taxpayer funded.

The problem is though, if they continue down the path they are on pretty soon they are going to have to get some subsidies. I don't think anybody is advocating their complete demise, but if we want them to remain self sustaining cuts are going to have to be made.
Pat



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
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No More Tax Help For Pimps: Acorn Disbands posted Mon Mar 22 2010 15:13:52 by Airstud
Buell No More posted Thu Oct 15 2009 22:04:12 by Flyingwaeldar
No More Excuses For The Democratic Party posted Wed Jul 1 2009 10:16:21 by DXing
Obama To Israel - No (= No!) More Settlements posted Thu May 28 2009 06:18:38 by NAV20
South Side Irish Parade Is No More posted Wed Mar 25 2009 17:04:04 by AmricanShamrok
No More Bill O'Reilly On The Radio posted Mon Dec 8 2008 15:37:58 by STT757
NY/NJ Sports Fans, Mike And The Mad Dog No More posted Fri Aug 15 2008 10:16:24 by STT757
No More Red Light District In Amsterdam? posted Fri Feb 8 2008 18:00:10 by Lobster