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Sweeping Manhunt For Rampaging Ex-cop  
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

http://www.latimes.com/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21373264

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html

look at the number of bullet holes that that truck has, I feel sorry for anyone driving a vehicle fitting the suspects description today....

[Edited 2013-02-07 11:22:01]


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
171 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7695 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4823 times:
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Wait, they shot up a blue truck because it 'fits the description' and then do the same to a black one?? My goodness. I'm generally a staunch defender of the Police, but this looks pretty outrageous. That poor woman.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3852 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):

http://www.latimes.com/
"Local, state and federal authorities are involved in a massive manhunt for Dorner, who threatened "unconventional and asymmetrical warfare" against police in an online manifesto. "

LAPD should hire armed security guards as soon as possible.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

It's all over the news here in Los Angeles. Saw the electric billboards giving out the description of the car today on the freeways. Hope they catch him as soon as possible before he hurts anyone else.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
Wait, they shot up a blue truck because it 'fits the description' and then do the same to a black one?? My goodness. I'm generally a staunch defender of the Police, but this looks pretty outrageous. That poor woman.

The LA Times reported two separate shootings of vehicles matching the description of this guys car today. Not just the one linked above. The LAPD has one of the worst reputations of any police department in the US. This won't help improve it.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19513 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4773 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):

Wait, they shot up a blue truck because it 'fits the description' and then do the same to a black one?? My goodness. I'm generally a staunch defender of the Police, but this looks pretty outrageous. That poor woman.

Cops in this country are mostly good. However, there are certain yahoos who should be screened out.

I'm no expert, but generally verifying your target before using lethal force is standard procedure, no?


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7695 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4774 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I'm no expert, but generally verifying your target before using lethal force is standard procedure, no?

One would think so. I hope someone's own ass gets handed to themself on a platter for shooting the woman delivering newspapers.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

I took some time to read through the accused's "manifesto" which is available now on several news outlets. I don't in anyway condone what he did, but there are many accusations he makes that could very possibly be true given the reputation of the LAPD. I hope he's brought to justice for what he has done, but I also hope that the LAPD and media go through the investigation that led up to his being dismissed as a LEO. Because, he's in essence saying he was fired for being a whistle-blower. And, some of what he says sounds very plausible.

Here's what he sent the media:

http://www.myfoxla.com/story/2101902...festo-about-slayings#ixzz2KETaRYYL



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4714 times:
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The scope of this manhunt is insane. Evidence is popping up all over Southern California, including here in San Diego where his wallet and badge were found. Apparently he tried to steal a boat here late last night.

I just finished reading the "manifesto" and it's heavy stuff. This seems like something taken straight from a movie. The scary thing is, he has been trained by the LAPD and US Military. He claims to know (and chances are he does) how law enforcement will respond to his actions. That means he's potentionally one or more steps ahead of them at all times which makes this incredibly dangerous.

Scary stuff!



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
Wait, they shot up a blue truck because it 'fits the description' and then do the same to a black one?? My goodness. I'm generally a staunch defender of the Police, but this looks pretty outrageous.

Oh, it gets better. The Riverside PD chief condemned the shooting of his two officers, saying they were ambushed "and didn't even have a chance to fight back". Yet no such sympathy for the papergirls or condemnation of the cops that shot them.

He literally accomplished one of his goals, albeit in the worst way possible.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4671 times:

When does the movie come out?


I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
Yet no such sympathy for the papergirls or condemnation of the cops that shot them.

Well on the plus side they've got a multi million dollar settlement coming their way, that should cheer them up...



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6594 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4633 times:

I guess you now realize why in some countries, even cops don't have guns !


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
I guess you now realize why in some countries, even cops don't have guns !

Well I think even Britain has revised that.. Kinda hard to stop someone in a rampage (and yes liberals criminals get guns in places like London) If your police have nothing but nightsticks for protection.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2830 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 13):
If your police have nothing but nightsticks for protection.

Many countries still enjoy a police force (general duties) who are not armed. If the situation involves arms, then the police who are armed take over....

Having lived in a country (nz) where this occurs, its very refreshing indeed.

[Edited 2013-02-07 22:06:59]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinedetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 4):

The LA Times reported two separate shootings of vehicles matching the description of this guys car today. Not just the one linked above.

WTF!!! Those officers should be prosecuted and thrown in jail. I understand the tension, but if you cannot handle it dont become a police officer.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 14):
Having lived in a country (nz) where this occurs, its very refreshing indeed.

Oh please!! It refreshing not to have an officer carry a gun? How so? I would much rather have all officers carry guns so that when there is an emergency, they aren't scrambling to find an officer that does have a gun. After all, i cannot find a case where an on duty officer has every maliciously killed someone using his firearm.



Boiler Up!!!
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1248 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

Wow US police forces shooting innocent people again instead of actual criminals, how surprising.

I can now kinda understand why so many people in the US resist any restrictions to obtaining guns, sure I would like to have one too if incompetent armed polices were fooling around my neighborhood all the time. I'm really glad that in this country police forces are well trained.

[Edited 2013-02-08 04:23:37]


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

One has to wonder if this man should have ever become a cop in the first place. He seems to have some serious mental health problems, made worse by the culture of the LAPD including it's racism.

I suspect if and when the cops get him in a corner, all the cameras will be turned off and he is going to die in a hailstorm of bullets, even if surrendering. He killed cops and that is a sure way to end up dead too. I just hope they get to him before he shoots and kills others.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4376 times:
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Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
One has to wonder if this man should have ever become a cop in the first place. He seems to have some serious mental health problems, made worse by the culture of the LAPD including it's racism.

Well right now the people who know him are wondering how in the world this is the same guy they know. It's probably very shocking, and he even acknowledges that in his manifesto.

Sometimes you just never know what's really going on inside someone's head.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting detroitflyer (Reply 16):
After all, i cannot find a case where an on duty officer has every maliciously killed someone using his firearm.

There have been numerous examples of police killing unarmed civilians using guns over the years.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7695 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4327 times:
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Quoting hoMsar (Reply 20):
There have been numerous examples of police killing unarmed civilians using guns over the years.

Of course, but the keyword there is 'maliciously'.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4323 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):

Way to generalize dude. Do you have any idea how police departments around here operate? Most are just normal, good departments, then you have some like the LAPD that are full of corruption. Now, admittedly, the LAPD does have some pretty serious problems and heads should roll (metaphorically) about lighting up innocent people in these pick up trucks...

I'd almost have respect for this man if he went about this in a much different way, without using violence. It seems like the LAPD is really messed up, assuming his stories check out, but any credibility he had is rightly thrown out when he starts gunning down people. And although I disagree with the tactic, I can at least see why he'd go after police, but why on earth would he go against their families?

Plus, what if he shoots another police officer that thinks just like him? He is truly deranged.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4319 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
Quoting hoMsar (Reply 20):
There have been numerous examples of police killing unarmed civilians using guns over the years.

Of course, but the keyword there is 'maliciously'.

Why should "malicious" be the determining factor in whether or not something is okay?



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4317 times:

Quoting detroitflyer (Reply 16):
WTF!!! Those officers should be prosecuted and thrown in jail. I understand the tension, but if you cannot handle it dont become a police officer.

This article has a photo of the truck the LAPD shot up containing 2 women delivering newspapers.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...s-newspaper-carriers.html#comments

It wasn't just one or two shots, they shot the truck up.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 17):
Wow US police forces shooting innocent people again instead of actual criminals, how surprising.

I think we can all agree that what happened in the two shootings of innocent civilians driving trucks similar to the one the PD was looking for is bad, criminally bad, but I also can't imagine being a police officer knowing you were being hunted by a trained military man.

That doesn't excuse the accidental shootings, but you also have to realize that these guys could be ambushed at any time.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7695 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4342 times:
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Quoting hoMsar (Reply 23):
Why should "malicious" be the determining factor in whether or not something is okay?

I don't think it should, it just happened to be a key word in the quote you responded to.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 911 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4386 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
I'd almost have respect for this man if he went about this in a much different way, without using violence

Not that I condone what he's done, but it seems like he tried all the "normal' channels and didn't get anywhere and decided to go out in a blaze of glory.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

A disturbing quote from his manifesto...
From 2/05 to 1/09 I saw some of the most vile things humans can inflict on others as a police officer in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, it wasn't in the streets of LA. It was in the confounds of LAPD police stations and shops (cruisers). The enemy combatants in LA are not the citizens and suspects, it's the police officers.

Read more: http://www.myfoxla.com/story/2101902...o-about-slayings#ixzz2KKrnl9Bw


Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):


I'd almost have respect for this man if he went about this in a much different way, without using violence.

That's not realistic... it sounds like you did read his manifesto, that being the case..it's abundantly clear that exactly what kind of situation he was in. This truly is the 100% realization of 'No Way Out'.

Justice is what we make it. And sometimes we make it impossible to obtain. This is that case.

I'm going back over this manifesto because it is so much information, detailed information of an inside that few of us will ever see, but many of us suspect to be true and yet still turn a blind eye to.

I'm startled by this in a big way because I have posted on here on how I believed the LAPD had changed from my own perception.. but if half of what this man is saying is valid. The future simply does not look good as the population expands along abhorrant behavior.

This event is currently having the same seismic effect on the area as the infamous Burbank automatic weapon bank robbery/shootout with the cops on live tv years ago,

This is big.

Antonio Villaraigosa's political future is now front and center because of this...how this plays out determines if he goes any further although he had nothing to do with any of it.

This is a pure unabated cluster f--k!

I hope anyone commenting is reading this manifesto, at least twice. A true life person putting it all on the line knowing full well how it's going to end.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
I suspect if and when the cops get him in a corner, all the cameras will be turned off and he is going to die in a hailstorm of bullets, even if surrendering.

Exactly...

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
One has to wonder if this man should have ever become a cop in the first place.

Soooo....if you believe in justice, the rule of law and protecting those who cannot fight back... the police force is not the place for you?

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-08 11:22:43]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

If you read this story the two women delivering papers were driving around a neighborhood of an officer that was listed in his "hit" list with no lights on.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...Ex-Officers-Manhunt-190238221.html

Not giving the police a pass for shooting up the truck but I would have been wary myself seeing this.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 13):
Well I think even Britain has revised that..

No they haven't, British police still don't carry and are apparently more than happy not to.

Looks like might be the nail in the coffin for the assault type rifle in public hands, the guy is military and police trained on a rampage with an assault rifle, good stuff America you guys sure as hell know what you're doing.


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4380 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29):
Looks like might be the nail in the coffin for the assault type rifle in public hands, the guy is military and police trained on a rampage with an assault rifle, good stuff America you guys sure as hell know what you're doing.

If that's your opinion then you know nothing about American gun politics.

Anyway, I find it interesting that with the manhunt centered or at least focusing on the Mammoth area the ski resort is still operating while they search homes around the resort.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4373 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
That's not realistic... it sounds like you did read his manifesto, that being the case..it's abundantly clear that exactly what kind of situation he was in. This truly is the 100% realization of 'No Way Out'.

I don't care what his reasoning is... killing other cops isn't the way to go. I read part of his manifesto (a few paragraphs, not the dozens and dozens he wrote) but just like everything else in life, there is always two sides to the story. I have a strong hunch the LAPD did commit some wrongs but I am not gonna blindly believe everything he says... especially from someone as unstable as he is (stable people don't go hunting fellow cops)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4373 times:
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Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
I hope anyone commenting is reading this manifesto, at least twice. A true life person putting it all on the line knowing full well how it's going to end.

   At least once!

I don't think anyone who hasn't read the manifesto can grasp exactly what's going on here.

I got home last night and brought it up to my roommates. All they heard was a cop killer is on the loose. They shrugged it off, wondering why everyone was making such a big deal about it. READ THE MANIFESTO!

His belongings being found in San Diego, the attempted boat-jacking, his burned truck in Big Bear...I think he's toying with them, giving them leads in all different directions. Reminds me a little of The Joker in The Dark Night.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):
I don't think anyone who hasn't read the manifesto can grasp exactly what's going on here.

I second this. He's pretty specific in his accusations and as I said above, it's entirely possible that some of them are true. That doesn't excuse what he has done. For that he should pay, but reading the manifesto certainly puts in more in context.

I'm sure now that the media will fully investigate his accusations. That I'm interested in reading, whenever that is published. I won't believe a word that comes out of the LAPD right now.

I don't think this about most law enforcement agencies but the LAPD has an earned reputation.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):
His belongings being found in San Diego, the attempted boat-jacking, his burned truck in Big Bear...I think he's toying with them, giving them leads in all different directions. Reminds me a little of The Joker in The Dark Night.

This guy has an end game planned. Last year here in Seattle we had a guy that killed his family who had for years been building a bunker in the mountains as his refuge after he did it. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows exactly where he wants this to end. The car fire in Mammoth has to be a distraction.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 33):
I'm sure now that the media will fully investigate his accusations

Not a chance...

MSNBC, CNN, Fox.. doesn't matter.

They'll all folded like a wet cardboard box under Bush and his illegal war, this?

This is seriously scary stuff (to the cops that is). It's either them.. or him. He's gotta go and he's gotta be shutdown - completely with nothing left. Dorner can not make it trial.. because every police force in the nation will be on the stand.

This is one of those extremely rare events that has the potential to shake a nation. If there were a Trayvon Martin going on in LA right now, a riot would surely ensure...a court case would open more cans of worms than can be contained.

The media doesn't want this hot potato, sure, they want the sensationalism of blood lust..but not true 'drill down-get-to-the-bottom-of-this' diligence...none of them are up for it.

I'd trust only one outfit to take on that task and leave no stone unturned...Al Jazeera - and they'd be shutdown if they did.

Cover up (everywhere) is in full throttle as you read. All information heretofore is suspect.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 33):
This guy has an end game planned. Last year here in Seattle we had a guy that killed his family who had for years been building a bunker in the mountains as his refuge after he did it. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows exactly where he wants this to end. The car fire in Mammoth has to be a distraction.
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 32):

His belongings being found in San Diego, the attempted boat-jacking, his burned truck in Big Bear...I think he's toying with them, giving them leads in all different directions. Reminds me a little of The Joker in The Dark Night.

Agreed 100%

His manifesto discloses a very perceptive and intelligent man, his physique puts fear into any of his peers at odds with him. He knows how they think, how they'll react. Once the Feds (cause local cops won't) locate him, he'll be the 1st American Droned on American soil.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-08 12:34:50]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):

How do you feel about him killing a man?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
His manifesto discloses a very perceptive and intelligent man, his physique puts fear into any of his peers at odds with him.

He's probably one of the first mass shooters in American history that is this intelligent. Not only is he smart, he's been trained both by the LAPD and the US Navy. IIRC he was a Lt. in the Navy so he's educated as well. The fact that the LAPD already has shot at two separate trucks that matched the description of his only illustrates how much they fear him.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
Once the Feds (cause local cops won't) locate him, he'll be the 1st American Droned on American soil.

This won't happen, at least being killed by a drone. The Feds may very well will be the ones that find him, but although drones might find him and be used in surveillance like they already are being used on US soil, men on the ground will be the ones that kill him. Drones are regularly used along the border daily, and even by some local law enforcement agencies.

I think a lot of what he says he has is bluffing, like the fact that he has a MANPAD, or man portable air-defense system. But, having a sniper rifle is completely plausible.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineaerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4681 posts, RR: 47
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 28):
If you read this story the two women delivering papers were driving around a neighborhood of an officer that was listed in his "hit" list with no lights on.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...Ex-Officers-Manhunt-190238221.html

Not giving the police a pass for shooting up the truck but I would have been wary myself seeing this.

Not at all, big difference between a dark-colored Nissan Titan (I own one) and a Bright blue Toyota Tacoma. Make positive identification of the suspect before shooting 40 slugs at them. Pathetic fail by LAPD, an instance where the brotherhood will treat everyone outside the brotherhood as a criminal.

I have an office in one of the cities where officers were shot, it will be interesting to see how this all ends. Seems like Dorner is hours ahead and miles away from being caught. He's been brewing for awhile - I'm sure he has been planning this out since he was let go by the LAPD in 2009.

This is going to get uglier before it gets better.

[Edited 2013-02-08 14:28:09]


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
I honestly cannot say I have faith in much of what is being told.

I think there is truth in it too but he could easily be extremely paranoid and many of his gripes may actually have simple explanations to them... there are mental illnesses that can do that. Even if he does have legitimate concerns, I still think he's a scumbag and not some brave soul fighting evil... evil is killing in cold blood. I hope any injustice is corrected but I'm not going to be cheering him on after what he did



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12425 posts, RR: 25
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 30):
Anyway, I find it interesting that with the manhunt centered or at least focusing on the Mammoth area the ski resort is still operating while they search homes around the resort.
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 33):
The car fire in Mammoth has to be a distraction.
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 36):

He's probably one of the first mass shooters in American history that is this intelligent. Not only is he smart, he's been trained both by the LAPD and the US Navy. IIRC he was a Lt. in the Navy so he's educated as well.

Indeed it's got to be a diversion showing how much smarter he is than other cops, the ones too dumb to realize that an African American wouldn't try to blend in at a ski resort!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4218 times:
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Quoting aerobalance (Reply 39):
This is going to get uglier before it gets better.

He mentions "initial small scale offensive actions" which implies he's got a lot more up his sleeves.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19513 posts, RR: 58
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4172 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):
I think there is truth in it too but he could easily be extremely paranoid and many of his gripes may actually have simple explanations to them... there are mental illnesses that can do that. Even if he does have legitimate concerns, I still think he's a scumbag and not some brave soul fighting evil... evil is killing in cold blood. I hope any injustice is corrected but I'm not going to be cheering him on after what he did

Exactly. This is a manifesto written by a very sick man. You cannot believe what is written in it, even if it raises some good points.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
I honestly cannot say I have faith in much of what is being told.

I think there is truth in it too but he could easily be extremely paranoid and many of his gripes may actually have simple explanations to them...

Spend about 10 more years where you are (hopefully advancing)... you will not be able to avoid - nor escape situations of power and influence. If you've think you seen examples..you'll need a few more years and a few more heightened levels of it to reach the understanding that many senior officers, politicians, police detectives and most large business owners about 'paranoia'... it becomes a necessary tool of survival in highest levels of competitiveness.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):

Even if he does have legitimate concerns, I still think he's a scumbag and not some brave soul fighting evil... evil is killing in cold blood.

You're entitled to that opinion going on 'the facts you've been served up'

Evil comes in forms that can appear to be worse than death.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):
I hope any injustice is corrected

That's nice, if you google up all the police corruption probes since the starting point of your choosing...you'll see your hopes have no chance of fruition.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but the trajectory that has led us up to today on multiple social levels point to more gov't controls which in turn means more TSA like thinking 'everyone's a criminal until....' this may be the very subliminal thinking of some ardent gun supporters. Nonetheless, it is 'injustice (of many forms)' that many have experienced too much of and many more will suffer in the future combined with abuse of those under authority that will lead to more distrust and skepticism.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
This is a manifesto written by a very sick man.

Again, another 'opinion'

Various news organization range from 'rambling to well thought out' in their opinions.

I've read it and I can relate to much of which he speaks, I've see frustration in many people that he clearly expresses, some of which has probably been the source of 'gone postal episodes'.

I see in this guy the same frustration of that poor computer whiz kid in NY, Aaron Swartz - who also saw 'no way out'..but took his own life. This kid needed help...and not the medical kind many of you think solves all problems. Both of these people were in situations where the system was just to tainted and unfairly against lodge against them. Justice rarely comes in the mail. And it certainly won't come from your friends and family who run at the sign of a badge because we are increasingly seduced into accepting 'what we're told' by all authority is true and people like Swartz and Dorner are law breakers...you'll get "the details as we prepare them for you.." - which in turn become 'facts'.. no trial necessary.




BN747

[Edited 2013-02-08 17:55:33]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2830 posts, RR: 8
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

Quoting detroitflyer (Reply 16):

Oh please!! It refreshing not to have an officer carry a gun? How so?

That's exactly the sort of reply I'd expect from someone living under your flag..

I wont bother trying to explaining what I meant by refreshing, you'll never understand anyway.

Quoting detroitflyer (Reply 16):
After all, i cannot find a case where an on duty officer has every maliciously killed someone using his firearm.

Then you haven't looked very hard !

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 28):
If you read this story the two women delivering papers were driving around a neighborhood of an officer that was listed in his "hit" list with no lights on.

A 71 and 44 year old women delivering newspapers ?

What ever happened to "identifying" your target BEFORE you open up and start firing like a mad idiots.
These officers should have the book shoved up there collective arses, and dismissed from the force.

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 39):
Not at all, big difference between a dark-colored Nissan Titan (I own one) and a Bright blue Toyota Tacoma. Make positive identification of the suspect before shooting 40 slugs at them. Pathetic fail by LAPD, an instance where the brotherhood will treat everyone outside the brotherhood as a criminal.

Well put !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6287 posts, RR: 34
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4102 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 28):

I am being wary as I type this, you never know if some nut will walk up these days. But if somebody does walk up and I shoot him or her a few times just because I get scared I will be thrown in jail. No questions asked. These police officers belong in prison.



Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
Spend about 10 more years where you are (hopefully advancing)... you will not be able to avoid - nor escape situations of power and influence.

Stop speaking in absolutes. I've already said this guy most likely has legitimate gripes BUT I don't condone the way he's going about it (killing.) I've said it more than once. Honestly, it is your position too I believe, is it not? (1: He has legitimate gripes 2: killing that police officer is wrong)

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
You're entitled to that opinion going on 'the facts you've been served up'

What, the fact that he killed a police officer? Yeah I believe that's evil, don't you?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
That's nice, if you google up all the police corruption probes since the starting point of your choosing...you'll see your hopes have no chance of fruition.

Yes, duh, corruption goes on, has since forever. Should I stop hoping that the injustices are corrected?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15730 posts, RR: 26
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Exactly. This is a manifesto written by a very sick man. You cannot believe what is written in it, even if it raises some good points.

Timothy McVeigh was essentially a Tea Partier before there was a Tea Party. While some of his thoughts on taxation and government were right, that in no way justifies any of his actions or made him not insane.

And for that matter, why is it that surprising anymore that some members of police and armed forces are disturbed? Sure we do plenty to try and weed them out, but it just isn't ever going to be perfect.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
Spend about 10 more years where you are (hopefully advancing)... you will not be able to avoid - nor escape situations of power and influence.

And the solution is not to go on a murder spree.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
You're entitled to that opinion going on 'the facts you've been served up'

Your tin foil hat might be strapped on a bit too tight.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
Sorry to sound so cynical, but the trajectory that has led us up to today on multiple social levels point to more gov't controls which in turn means more TSA like thinking 'everyone's a criminal until....' this may be the very subliminal thinking of some ardent gun supporters.

Isn't that the outward thinking of ardent gun control supporters?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 45):
That's exactly the sort of reply I'd expect from someone living under your flag..

I wont bother trying to explaining what I meant by refreshing, you'll never understand anyway.

I wouldn't feel better about not having cops carry guns. I wouldn't feel worse about it either, except perhaps briefly if a news story involving a cop being killed pops up.

I have no fear of being shot by a police officer for the very simple reason that I don't give them any reason to shoot me.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 45):
What ever happened to "identifying" your target BEFORE you open up and start firing like a mad idiots.
These officers should have the book shoved up there collective arses, and dismissed from the force.

The cops made a mistake and they'll be punished for it. It will cost the city millions too, I'm sure. That said, I can see how it happened. It's one thing to be in a potentially bad situation, it's another to be hunted. Being edgy is understandable but it will, rightfully, cost them.

On the plus side, the LAPD shot two innocent people by mistake and the city is not going up in flames. Congratulations LA! You are becoming civilized!



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
(1: He has legitimate gripes 2: killing that police officer is wrong)

If he did, yes, the news tonight said 'allegedly'... this once, I'll prefer their phrasing.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
What, the fact that he killed a police officer? Yeah I believe that's evil, don't you?

Evil? I don't know all 'the facts'... wrong? Yes.

Americans strongly believe in 'payback' and getting even..our own political actions underscore that point. Millions killed.
So if dead officer pulled an evil stunt on Dorner ..Dorner did actually kill him for it, at worse, I call Dorner wrong for taking the man's life, but me personally..I'd like to know that infact he did and why. But as I said about Ronnie Chasen's death, the police said 'suspect A' killed her, but no one locally buys that story for one hot second...so in this case, facts are needed...not just someone's 'say so'/

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
That's nice, if you google up all the police corruption probes since the starting point of your choosing...you'll see your hopes have no chance of fruition.

Yes, duh, corruption goes on, has since forever. Should I stop hoping that the injustices are corrected?

Let's just say I wish you had centuries of life remaining to see it thru...cuz you'll need it. Eliminate corruption and you can hit the 'FF' button... don't and infinity comes into play.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
You're entitled to that opinion going on 'the facts you've been served up'

Your tin foil hat might be strapped on a bit too tight.

Like your jockstrap...

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
A disturbing quote from his manifesto

Did he go to his supervisors? Did he go to the state police board? Did he file any other grievences? Or, was this rampage his first step?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineitsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 9
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4033 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Admittedly, on 1st reports..I hated this guy with passion.

Then I read part of the manifesto

So you're condoning the killing of three people and severely injuring a fourth? Not to mention, one of those killed was a police officer. Are you f'ing insane? Don't bother answering. The question is rhetorical.

Was this guy wronged by the LAPD? Possibly. But the second he fired multiple rounds into Ms.Quan, her fiance', and three police officers, made that possibility moot.

[Edited 2013-02-08 21:23:55]

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 50):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
A disturbing quote from his manifesto

Did he go to his supervisors? Did he go to the state police board? Did he file any other grievences? Or, was this rampage his first step?

Someone hasn't read the Manifesto..all your answers are there.

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 51):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Admittedly, on 1st reports..I hated this guy with passion.

Then I read part of the manifesto

So you're condoning the killing of three people and severely injuring a fourth?

Point out where I'm saying that...go ahead..

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 51):
Not to mention, one of those killed was a police officer. Are you f'ing insane? Don't bother answering. The question is rhetorical.

I'll just say this, YOU are expected to take the department line...period.


If you even think of venturing outside that line, any of your pals aware of your public posting on an internet forum could result in serious problems - none of us would want that.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 49):
I'd like to know that infact he did and why.

Why he killed in cold blood? I would like to know too, but that ain't gonna excuse him, are you insane?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 49):
Let's just say I wish you had centuries of life remaining to see it thru...cuz you'll need it. Eliminate corruption and you can hit the 'FF' button... don't and infinity comes into play.

WTF are you talking about. I can wish a lot of things I know aren't gonna happen. I wish corruption would end, world hunger, etc even though I know that ain't happening anytime soon

Quoting BN747 (Reply 52):
I'll just say this, YOU are expected to take the department line...period.

The department line or the sane human line that killing people in cold blood is bad?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineitsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 9
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 52):
I'll just say this, YOU are expected to take the department line...period.

The "Department line"? What, that murder is wrong? Is THAT the "Department Line" of which you speak? Tell me - have you or a loved one ever been hunted? Has a loved one or a colleague of yours ever been gunned down in cold blood? I am guessing not. In that case, you have no clue what you are talking about. I suggest, no, I highly suggest you take a muffled approach to his topic.

Here is some insight to what the our pre-shift briefings at numerous Southern California departments has consisted of since Thursday:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50751840/n...ews-orange_county_ca/#.URXmxWe7rFw

[Edited 2013-02-08 22:08:26]

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 54):

He's obviously more "enlightened" than us and we just don't understand the "depth" of what he is saying. Hey, maybe the officers wronged Dorner and deserved to die  

sick, I am at a loss for words



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 53):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 52):
I'll just say this, YOU are expected to take the department line...period.

The department line or the sane human line that killing people in cold blood is bad?

You're sounding insane repeatedly asking the same questions over and over again...

..an earlier quote from me...

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
if he killed anyone, he is just as wrong as those that have wronged him.

...but noooooo that's not good enough for you, you want me to go off all half cocked like you, acting if I was standing right there and saw the entire incident like you did. Now, I would do that if I was some halfwit teenager with no clue as to how the world works. But like I pointed out in the Ronnie Chasen case, the one officially identified as the killer..is not always 'the actual killer'. History is littered with a cold body delivered, labeled and served up as the killer to calm public fears.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 53):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 49):
I'd like to know that infact he did and why.

Why he killed in cold blood? I would like to know too, but that ain't gonna excuse him, are you insane?

And there you go again..sounding as if you for fact .. know exactly who did what, how when and where .(because and anchorman told you so).. who's sounding insane now.

What you are ignoring is this...

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/troop...er-roadside-cavity-search-w-video/

... are you capable of seeing MORE than two women being cavity searched right in the middle of the street over a tossed cigarette butt?


OR do you see Police behaving in extremely outrageous behavior?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ly-ignoring-911-calls-report-says/

What do you see here...

Do you see a cop smooching up with his girlfriend, ignoring 911 calls in the video while his supervising officer is kickin' it watching soap operas with her mom for hours on end while 911 calls go ignored..

Or do you see, police misconduct spiraling perilously out of control?

You're so jacked up and angry because I won't dive in head first ...believing everything said about Mr. Dorner (as I'm seriously considering the source)... as you do.

..you are missing the much bigger and Snow Balling picture that all of these stories plus the slew of police unarmed shootings across the country (plenty of videos to back those up) is what is driving a huge Anti-Police wave that is swelling by the minute due to this event that is unfolding as we type - Dorner's Manifesto. Because it is written in pointed, concise, well documented insider language.. that is the very reason growing numbers of people across the nation are responding the way that they are.

I don't like the idea of people cheering on the death of cops as this is a fire that can easily get out of control, a bad attitude detrimental to the health of American Society, but the cops themselves aren't helping at all. The two Newspaper women shot this morning should be dealt with in a upfront, professional and sincere manor .. not gaffed off as some fluke and dismissed as they doing right now..that's the very thing that fuels these fires of resentment toward cops.

I honestly am starting to believe that after Rodney King, the LAPD and other large police agencies seriously have not changed anything and judging by that cavity search video..it looks like their dubious reputation is only spreading to other police forces. If that was your Mother, your sister, your daughter...how would you feel? That's how it resonates with the public as these bad cop stories stack up upon one another. The numbers of people supporting cops is dwindling and the number hating on them is swelling. And their mounting negative actions makes it harder and harder 'to believe' their version of almost anything... they are losing that 'given benefit of all doubt at a very disturbing rate'.

I believe the LAPD, like the Republican Party, truly believes They Don't Need to Change .. the problem (in their minds) is 'Everyone Else' needs to change - it's about people being aware of the public tempo. They both feel that if they can just get thru this one rough patch...things will fall back to 'business as usual' and all this 'change talk' is just a waste of time. Someone had better wake up and pay attention...and it's not me, I'm paying close attention, I said it here earlier...this thing is a powder keg with great repercussions if handled incorrectly, the LAPD is already off to a bad start.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-08 23:34:10]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 56):
You're sounding insane repeatedly asking the same questions over and over again...

Pot meet kettle... I've already said that the cops most likely and definitely have in the past (especially the LAPD) committed some egregious crimes. Throughout the US there are plenty of terrible cops and terrible acts, and racism is very high.

If you are implying that Mr Dorner may not be the killer, then fine, I can see that (as implausible as I think it is.) I'd convey my arguments better because you are confusing me and others. Maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying, if so, I apologize, but if that is the case, be more clear. I already heard you say you don't condone murder but you go on to say some very questionable things. Please, do not retort this or say that I'm some "stupid teenager," just be more clear

I am not some idiot you know, I just am not in your brain and can only interpret what you are saying from what you write. I'm not the only one confused, for the sake of argument, please consider what I said



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 55, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
I'd convey my arguments better because you are confusing me and others.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
I'm not the only one confused, for the sake of argument, please consider what I said

Aside from my long standing known list of usual suspects of antagonist detractors... who? Are you getting pvt pms from secret pals again? It seems only you are confused. Confused over what exactly...?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
but you go on to say some very questionable things

Such as?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
I am not some idiot you know, I just am not in your brain and can only interpret what you are saying from what you write

I know you're not, on the contrary, in spite of all your constant attacks at me.. I consider you quite a bright person given your age, I see the growth in attitudinal adjustments but I also see the 'hard to break away' notions you hold that are anchored to your core beliefs at this stage of life (which are sure to change and change again - which happens to most of us who craven knowledge and experience as we journey thru life itself.. unlike some who lock themselves up with their fears like permanent bunk mates while unknowingly expressing themselves as such.)


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 56, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
but I also hope that the LAPD and media go through the investigation that led up to his being dismissed as a LEO. Because, he's in essence saying he was fired for being a whistle-blower. And, some of what he says sounds very plausible.

You could make the argument that a veteran LAPD officer railroaded a rookie in order to protect her career. However three employees of the hotel where the incident took place made statements that did not back up his version of events. I think most reasonable people would be hard pressed to say that three witnesses with no ties to the LAPD were somehow in on some sort of conspiracy against Dorner.


User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 57, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):

I suspect if and when the cops get him in a corner, all the cameras will be turned off and he is going to die in a hailstorm of bullets, even if surrendering. He killed cops and that is a sure way to end up dead too. I just hope they get to him before he shoots and kills others.

Yup. If there's one thing Cops really hate, it's being shot up. There's a reason why pointing a gun at one of them is still an effective method of suicide...

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
This is seriously scary stuff (to the cops that is). It's either them.. or him. He's gotta go and he's gotta be shutdown - completely with nothing left. Dorner can not make it trial.. because every police force in the nation will be on the stand.

Of course it's scary stuff. Wouldn't you be a little off balance if someone wanted to kill you and your family because of your job?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
His manifesto discloses a very perceptive and intelligent man,

I strongly doubt that. I read it too, and my read was that this is a guy who got fired for a few good reasons and couldn't get on with life. So when people don't want to play along with his little game, he resorts to violence.

I say this not because I know anything about this man, but I am a strong believer in Occam's Razor. Add to that, there are no shortage of egomaniacal idiots in the world. Seriously man, I've met folks who get visibly and physically angry when people choose not to believe them or follow along whatever rants they're onto now.

Do you really believe it's totally impossible that this is just another run of the mill jerk taking out his frustrations on the world at large? Like I said, I read his manifesto, and while he brings up a lot of allegations, the fact is that there is nothing there that actually supports his "theories."

This may come as a shock to you man, (and I'm serious, I do not mean that in a mean or sarcastic way), but there are a lot of people out there who just can't cope with the idea that they screwed something up, and got taken to task for it.

Case in point, I fired a guy about a year back for gross negligence after he caused a chain of events that caused another employee to have his arm broken in four places. He didn't mean for it to happen, I'm sure of that. But he was completely careless and ignored more than a few obvious work rules, exposing our company to no small liability in the process.

During one of the subsequent hearings (called for no reason other than to determine the amount of compensation due the injured party), this guy spent about twenty minutes on the stand trying to sell god and everyone on the idea that the incident was caused by everything from equipment being purposely rigged to malfunction to the kind of paper corporate prints work rules on to his inability to check payroll online to, and I'm not kidding, the GOP "paying off" the airlines to use more fuel (it was a fueling related incident). Oh how I would have LOVED it to be the republicans fault! (If you've seen any of my posts here, you know I'm not kidding about that!) But... The truth was that this dude was just plain batshit crazy, and should never have been allowed near an aircraft of any kind on purpose. End of story.

A little epilogue there; it was of absolutely no surprise to anyone when it was discovered that this guy had invested a sizable amount of time both cyber and real life stalking of various employees and their girlfriends, spouses, etc... This guy is locked up for a number of reasons now, and you know what? I'll bet he's boring his cellmates to death every night with all kinds of stories about all kinds of things that are out to get him.

You know, if you were to say that I'm a little jaded on folks like that based on experience, I'd guess there's some truth to that. But when people go out saying they need to go to "extreme measures", and then actually doing it, to make their point, or expose the "Big Lie" or whatever, chances are there's some "extreme" damage between the ears.


I will say you're right, the LAPD does a good job being an easy target, but to me, this is just another disgruntled ex-employee who couldn't get it together, and wants the world to think that his problems are anyone's fault but his.

I do hope they bring him in alive. I'd love to see what Bill Maher, (and about a dozen others) would make of his testimony one day. But like I said, I think the Cops will just kill him 1st...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
Exactly. This is a manifesto written by a very sick man. You cannot believe what is written in it, even if it raises some good points.

That was my read too. It was a very hard to read disjointed list of things that present points, but no proof... He could very easily actually be guilty of everything he claims they "set him up" on.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 58, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3902 times:
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There are two sides to every story, and the truth exists somewhere in the middle. Obviously the manifesto is one side of the story so it should not be taken entirely as truth.

What's important with his manifesto is not whether it's to be believed as 100% truth. What's important is that this man believes he has been a victim of a corrupt system and he wants one thing, and one thing only...to have his name cleared. Take his claims however you want, but this man believes he is a victim and he is out to prove a point, knowing fully that he will not live to see the end of this.

What's interesting, to me at least, is this sounds like something straight from Hollywood. If this weren't real life, people might actually be rooting for a character like this. I mentioned it above, but this reminds me a lot of The Dark Knight and how both the Joker and Harvey Dent (Two-Face) manipulated a corrupt system and sought revenge. So because this is real life, the only possible explanation is that this is a deranged individual and no credibility whatsoever can be given to his story? In other words, in the movies we accept a story like this as a good plot line, but because it's happening in real life it's to be dismissed as paranoid thoughts in the head of a mad man?

I would like to make very clear before I get attacked that I do not think killing is the right way to handle this. I am not condoning his actions in any way. It's disgusting, it's wrong. But like I said, regarding the manifesto, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

No matter how you look at it, this is a scary situation.

[Edited 2013-02-09 01:56:58]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 59, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 59):
However three employees of the hotel where the incident took place made statements that did not back up his version of events. I think most reasonable people would be hard pressed to say that three witnesses with no ties to the LAPD were somehow in on some sort of conspiracy against Dorner.

I can make a pretty good guess as to what those people said. Either "I didn't see a cop kicking anyone", or "The cops were fighting with the guy", or both. They were probably asked about it months after the incident (because it wasn't reported until much later), which means they probably didn't remember anything specific.

Just because a "witness" didn't see something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 61):
There are two sides to every story, and the truth exists somewhere in the middle.

We have to remember though that although it is somewhere in the middle, it is NOT the middle. Do I think he was railroaded out? Absolutely. Do I think there's still rampant corruption in the LAPD? Duh.

Do I think that's even remotely an excuse to do what this guy is doing? Good God, no. The only confirmed truth in this case is that this guy is seriously deranged and will likely end up dead. Scratch that, he WILL end up dead. He said so himself. I would expect one more brazen attack in the next week where he's taken down... it's all in his "manifesto".



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 60, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

I don't know what he hell happened at the hotel that day, but logic suggests most people don't get this worked up over something that they made up. That said, what has been pointed out in this thread already is that there's a minority of people who can't cope with anything, even their own screw-ups, and the mind has its way of convincing us of just about anything when the chips are really down. By his own admission in the "manifesto", he has been fighting depression for quite some time - and that alone can be enough to manufacture all kinds of nonsense in one's mind. On the other hand, estrangement from his family in the area also follows logically that he may have been pretty screwed up.

Bottom line is there is no happy ending to this story any way you slice it. Considering the guy's resume, he very well should have been all set in life. Maybe this is just another victim of the great American stress machine.

At the very least the LA Times articles connected to this have been illuminating. Even if what this guy claims isn't true, this is as good an opportunity as any to start asking questions about how LAPD still needs reformation badly. Ask anyone who has lived in the area - LAPD and LA County Sheriff are like oil and water in terms of public perception. Ugh.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 61, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

I would also wonder about his experiences in the military as a factor of his now terrible behavior. Despite all the publicity, there is still a lot of internal politics and racism in the USA Military.
While his 'manifesto' may bring up a few good points, his deadly actions are unacceptable, they are criminal, they are unjustifiable, innocents are getting killed in cold blood and just destroy any credibility of them.
.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 62, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 16):
Wow US police forces shooting innocent people again instead of actual criminals, how surprising.

it happens way to often here which is why when the anti gun crowd tells us that gun's should only be in the hand's of trained officers we raise our eyebrow's  
Quoting BN747 (Reply 26):
Soooo....if you believe in justice, the rule of law and protecting those who cannot fight back... the police force is not the place for you? BN747

Have to agree with much that you say...The corruption in many of the inner city police department's is part of what keep's me armed and living in the country.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 63, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

So, what about the details taken by LAPD about what this guy did? What happened when he went through grievence channels? What was said at hearings?

I say this because, apparently, there were grievence hearings. So, where is the link to those hearings? What was said there? What evidence was there at the hearings? Can we look at both sides before exhonerating this guy?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 64, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Isn't this guy just doing what a lot of supporters of gun rights suggest is the reason for the second ammendment and gun ownership, to keep the govt in check? The little guy standing up to the man and the oppressive govt that puts us all down and keeps us there?

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 65, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3730 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 64):
Isn't this guy just doing what a lot of supporters of gun rights suggest is the reason for the second ammendment and gun ownership, to keep the govt in check? The little guy standing up to the man and the oppressive govt that puts us all down and keeps us there?

I don't really get into that angle but no, this is not what those gun owners are saying



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 66, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 64):
The little guy standing up to the man and the oppressive govt that puts us all down and keeps us there?

No.

I was just reading on Yahoo news about his past with LAPD. One incident had him file charges against his partner and superior that she kicked a mentally challenged man in the chest. That never happend and he became angry.

That is completely different that having the freedom and liberty to do so many things and keeping hundreds of semi automatic weapons because the government is oppressing us.

Tell me how they are exactly the same?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 67, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3668 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Guys, seriously. Read the manifesto! You don't have to believe everything or anything he says, but read the manifesto. It's a must in order to understand what is going on.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 68, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 62):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 26):
Soooo....if you believe in justice, the rule of law and protecting those who cannot fight back... the police force is not the place for you? BN747

Have to agree with much that you say...The corruption in many of the inner city police department's is part of what keep's me armed and living in the country.

Quantum Theory, quantum non-locality aka quantum entanglement - then must be true (actual has been proven)..because I thought I'd never hear you of all people say you'd agree with me on anything - ever.

And whet you're expressing is exactly what many people currently posting on Dorner's facebook page right now, this guy is becoming a cult icon because he's being seen by people who...

... see the media as corporate driven and not beholden to them or their interest in any shape or form, they know it's corporate owned and only projects what 'someone beyond their class' decides.

..see the police forces (esp. since 9/11) as authority gone way to far and as more antagonistic as ever. Corruption is getting worse...not better (their view, not mine). But that female cavity search video on the middle of the street is down right shocking..and that's a white blond haired female - the type if she goes missing...it's on your news for the next 3 months until you know her full name as if she were your relative.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 61):
I would also wonder about his experiences in the military as a factor of his now terrible behavior. Despite all the publicity, there is still a lot of internal politics and racism in the USA Military.

Very good point, but the military has made quantum leaps and bounds in terms of the presence of racism vs and that of police, fire and various city/county operations. They are not even in the same ballpark with that regard.

Dorner's military record is apparently spotless... as he was an officer in the Navy. He understands chain-of-command and the structured hierachy.

So to those who are here saying he's disgruntled and all this nonsense don't understand anything about what he's trying to expose.

A military man has been shed of all the untamed, unrefined attitude and thought processes that come with undisciplined civilians. Sure there are nutcases in the military as any other place.. but it's usually created upon time spent in some pretty hellish conditions...just spend time in an Veteran Hospital.

The make the perfect cops because they 'follow orders'.

Above, I said this...

Quoting BN747 (Reply 26):

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 18):
One has to wonder if this man should have ever become a cop in the first place.

Soooo....if you believe in justice, the rule of law and protecting those who cannot fight back... the police force is not the place for you?

BN747

So for this guy to go to this extreme to protect the rights of a vagrant at that hotel, and go against his training senior supervisor...he must have seen something very very wrong.

Then some of you chime in...

" But the hotel staff, say that they didn't see anything wrong..."
"The hotel staff accounts differ from his"..

To you I ask, how many of you saying (and believing this) have ever been questioned by LAPD?

How many of you have been questioned by LAPD when they are making it clear that they want you to Go On Record with regard to one cop vs another's story? ... before opening your mouth .. think about that for a minute.
Do you want to be on record taking sides of one cop against another? Because they're going to take down all your personal information.

With her being the senior person in that division, what are the chances the data gathering officers preferred the 'good ol' sarge vs the new rookie big buff ex-Navy sharpshooting Sniper' who can run circles around you who happens to be black? You want him gone asap if he disturbs 'the way things are' vibe. Except we know all A.netters are always well-adjusted - everything's equal, no one plays favorites and everything always turns 'just and balanced' when all is said and done.

..but this didn't unfold in A.net, it unfolded in the LAPD, in the Harbor Division. As in most police ranks, the established personnel lord over the rookies and decide early - who's fitting in...and who isn't. And that means choosing sides. So when questioning a witness, it's as easy as taking candy from a baby to intimidate a witness into obtaining 'the desired results' (which officer is favored over the other - that is predetermined, sides have already been chosen) ... your name, address, cell info, how long have you worked here line of questioning to some one with an outstanding parking ticket (simple), a rears in child support payments, expired drivers license, bench warrant for court no show, undocumented worker with fake papers? This is Southern California...almost every hotel worker below supervisory levels have any of these hanging over their heads and they do no want be with a mile of giving a cop any of this information...let alone getting into the middle of a cop vs cop tiff.

The little spats that play out on A.net among members over silly crap, political differences, A vs B spats, love new AA vs old AA... those extra-silly divides that forms alliances of sorts also play in EVERY police precinct in America...bar none. Now put that in a racist precinct and you now see what a discipline ex-military man like Dorner was dealing with day in...and day out. But as a rookie, he must play the game... that is until something goes out of bounds as it apparently did.

A 130 lb male/female sargeant can berate, belittle a 270 looking linebacker of a man like Dorner when they feel..as long as it's with guidelines., If he is told he that 'abuse of suspects is to be reported and not tolerated'..and he sees it thru vs backing down (because it's the thing to do in that precinct)...you must ask yourself, what would do? Back down when the heat got too hot? Or follow it to the end because you know you are right - no matter what?

None of this should have reached what is happening now, esp. if the system worked the way it is supposed to.. but we know that is not the case. None of this absolves Dorner if he's the trigger man as alleged. But his career and military record as he says meant a lot to him as does doing the right thing when reporting 'police abuse' (which triggered this entire mess and snowballed into what we are looking at now.

There's no doubt in my mind that Chief Beck is in full damage control mode right now trying polish up LAPD because a BIG magnifying glass is headed his way however this turns out. Because people want know, how does a disciplined Military officer-turned-cop just suddenly turn on his own fellow cops? What went wrong..they certainly were not going to give us the details of the Review Board that Dorner shared...not voluntarily anyway, and certainly not without huge omissions that may make one of their own look bad in the execution of their duties.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 69, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 59):
I can make a pretty good guess as to what those people said. Either "I didn't see a cop kicking anyone", or "The cops were fighting with the guy", or both. They were probably asked about it months after the incident (because it wasn't reported until much later), which means they probably didn't remember anything specific.

Just because a "witness" didn't see something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Just because a deranged lunatic says something happened does not mean it did.

I would think that most people would remember a police officer kicking someone who has already been subdued. You also have to ask the question why did he wait so long to report it. Maybe it had to do with his TO informing him that unless he showed marked improvement she was going to recommend that he be removed from the field.

So what is more likely. A rookie cop with obvious emotional problems who is under performing trying to discredit his TO after a unfavorable review. Or some vast conspiracy not only involving the LAPD but thee hotel employees.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15730 posts, RR: 26
Reply 70, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 77):
I've did 4 years in the Military, since you know all this....go ahead, tell me where they taught this...

It's what the training is all about. Breaking someone down and remaking them as a soldier is a lot more than making sure they can do push ups and shoot a rifle, and as a veteran you should know that. Of course, transitioning back from being a soldier can be every bit as difficult.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 77):
No that's you telling yourself that...

I call "those gun hoarding, bunker building, "what are you gonna do when the government comes to take our rights and put us in re-education camps" types...

These are the people screaming about the government encroaching on rights, watching everyone, exercising more control over people's lives, instituting a police state, and generally reducing people's freedom. These bunch are the ones always saying that this law or that law is designed to allow the government (including the police) to watch us, detain us, or kill us.

So you're going to tell me that these crazy people who see pretty much everything as police brutality are actually left wingers? I wouldn't tell them that, especially if they have a gun, which they pretty much all do.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 77):
'in stark fear of more and more blacks, browns in power and we gotta be ready to fight when whites are outnumbered 3 to 1' mixed in a few Randy Weavers and McVeighs and of course, the we gotta get ready in case the aliens come.

Replace "aliens" with "government" and you're actually not far from the mark. And, since you want to bring up Dorner's military record as a reason to pay attention to his grievances, this would be a good time to point out that Timothy McVeigh won a medal in the Gulf War.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 71, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 77):
I've did 4 years in the Military, since you know all this....go ahead, tell me where they taught this...

It's what the training is all about. Breaking someone down and remaking them as a soldier is a lot more than making sure they can do push ups and shoot a rifle, and as a veteran you should know that. Of course, transitioning back from being a soldier can be every bit as difficult.

You, like my good friend Bill Maher have these interesting ideas about what the military really is.. I know what the brochures and commercials tell you..but you both might be better off just signing up, because reading , watching tv and talking to soldiers just ain't cutting it.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):
These are the people screaming about the government encroaching on rights, watching everyone, exercising more control over people's lives, instituting a police state, and generally reducing people's freedom. These bunch are the ones always saying that this law or that law is designed to allow the government (including the police) to watch us, detain us, or kill us.

So you're going to tell me that these crazy people who see pretty much everything as police brutality are actually left wingers? I wouldn't tell them that, especially if they have a gun, which they pretty much all do.

Nope..that's you telling you that, all I see is huge disconnect in what I stated and what you're trying to forge,

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):

Replace "aliens" with "government" and you're actually not far from the mark.

I did express that in ' too many minorities in gov't'... you're not paying attention.
And the fearful Alien Anal Probers have the turf to guard as well..

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 80):

And, since you want to bring up Dorner's military record as a reason to pay attention to his grievances, this would be a good time to point out that Timothy McVeigh won a medal in the Gulf War.

Did McVeigh serve as officer? Did he serve as a cop? As a cop did he try to put and end to police abuse of a helpless subject?

No...he did not. Hitler didn't go to Officer School ..and yet struck fear in the hearts of the entire German Officer corp, so what's your point? They are all different people in different situations coming from different situations...

Please refrain from coming back with more silly 'like you know military (which you've never been in) or gun yahoo debate.. that's not what this about and ...again, I don't have the time to get snared in your patented A.net tit-for-tat lengthy back-n-forths, excise me for not playing.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 72, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 74):
None of that means it's okay to sympathize with a cop killer.

Are you saying it is okay to sympathize with other killers or just that you cannot sympathize with someone who killed a person who happened to be a cop?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 74):
Military training also involves suppressing any aversion to violence

In twenty years in I never received that training program.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 75):
He is musunderstood! He is the victim! We should just give him a pass! That is what I am hearing.

Then you are hearing wrong.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 79):
Seems like their screening process worked in the case Chris Dorner. Here was someone who obviously had no business being a police officer who was vetted and shown the door.

Or it might just be someone who would not go along with the underlying program of not breaking the blue code of silence when something wrong is being done.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 82):
You simply cannot say that military training is only about discipline, leadership, and teamwork. There's also the aspect that has to make recruits willing to face danger and kill others.

No it is simply about discipline, leadership, and teamwork. The ability to face danger and to be able to kill others is already coded into you and is not a core curriculum with the military.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 73, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Here are some more of the latest news articles.

Dorner manhunt: Mayoral candidates want probe of ex-cop's claims about LAPD

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-manhunt-dorner-investigation.html

LAPD will reopen investigation into 2009 firing of Dorner

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...0-manhunt-20130210,0,4459703.story

Police seeking Dorner opened fire in a second case of mistaken identity

Torrance police say the man was driving a pickup resembling the fugitive's. The incident happened just after the LAPD fired on women delivering newspapers nearby.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

It is a free fire zone for the LA cop's. Keep your head down if you drive a japanese pick up truck.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 74, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 86):
Here are some more of the latest news articles.

They are in a sticky situation. On one hand, they need to investigate these cases. On the other hand, doing so is basically giving Dorner what he wants, and possibly encouraging other people in the future to do such actions (kill to expose injustice.) Of course they shouldn't sweep any corruption under the rug, but how do you investigate without basically giving the reaction the killer wants in response to the murders? (Or alleged murder, geez, gotta CYA around here. Of course I know the media is full of it so I say this with 98% certainty...)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 75, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 87):
(Or alleged murder, geez, gotta CYA around here. Of course I know the media is full of it so I say this with 98% certainty...)

There's nothing alleged about the murders, they happened.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 85):
Or it might just be someone who would not go along with the underlying program of not breaking the blue code of silence when something wrong is being done.

The problem with that scenario is that three civilian witnesses do not support his versions of events. It should also be rather obvious that he should never have been an LAPD officer in the first place.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 76, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

What led to the other officers to testify against him? What did he do to them? The manifesto, he paints himself as a saint. What else happened that he is not telling us in the manifesto?


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 77, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 75):
It should also be rather obvious that he should never have been an LAPD officer in the first place.

So far the LAPD have gunned down and opened fire on 3 innocent victims among numerous other infractions looking for Dorner
.
From here it looks like the incompetence/corruption/cover up stretches from top to bottom at LAPD.
Right now we have a 5'2 Female Spanish American and her daughter along with a White male 100 lbs lighter and 6' shorter who have been shot at by the LAPD.
None remotely come close to Dorner.

If you read LAPD press release's from those two incidents alone it appears they are doing everything they can to cover up the LAPD police shootings and falsify the evidence, which in that light give Dorner's accusations serious credibility.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 73):
It is a free fire zone for the LA cop's. Keep your head down if you drive a japanese pick up truck.

Walter Mitty Syndrome for the LAPD.

LAPD seems to be digging themselves a hole so deep that the EPA may get involved thinking they are drilling for oil.

Okie


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 78, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 77):
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 75): It should also be rather obvious that he should never have been an LAPD officer in the first place.
So far the LAPD have gunned down and opened fire on 3 innocent victims among numerous other infractions looking for Dorner
.
From here it looks like the incompetence/corruption/cover up stretches from top to bottom at LAPD

Bingo. There is nothing obvious about Dorner's ability to be or not to be an officer but it is obvious that the LAPD has some serious problem's. We continue to see these types of incident's across the country yet we are told to trust these "professionals" to take care of us.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 79, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
Exactly. This is a manifesto written by a very sick man. You cannot believe what is written in it, even if it raises some good points.

I'm almost at that point Doc. Although, I would argue that you should analyze everything he says and not take it at face value. We're getting his view of the events, some of the things he said happened may have actually happened, but I'm sure he's leaving out everything that doesn't jive with his view of the story.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 42):
What ever happened to "identifying" your target BEFORE you open up and start firing like a mad idiots.
These officers should have the book shoved up there collective arses, and dismissed from the force.

Take off the jaded glasses. Almost everyone here and the majority of people in LA think these were unjustified and criminal shootings. I'm thankful no one died because of it, but I also can't imagine knowing that if I was an LAPD officer I, and my family, were being hunted right now.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 44):
Stop speaking in absolutes. I've already said this guy most likely has legitimate gripes BUT I don't condone the way he's going about it (killing.) I've said it more than once. Honestly, it is your position too I believe, is it not? (1: He has legitimate gripes 2: killing that police officer is wrong)

He has gripes, some of which may or not be true. Even after reading his manifesto we're not getting both sides of the story right?



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 80, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 79):
He has gripes, some of which may or not be true. Even after reading his manifesto we're not getting both sides of the story right?

Exactly... some people don't understand that apparently



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 81, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 74):
They are in a sticky situation. On one hand, they need to investigate these cases. On the other hand, doing so is basically giving Dorner what he wants, and possibly encouraging other people in the future to do such actions (kill to expose injustice.)

That's a HUGE leap in the 'copy cat' realm...

..and very unlikely to happen no matter what!

Why? Because as so eloquently stated by one of the biggest fraudsters ever - Elijah Mohammed (Malcolm X's mentor)

'The most dangerous man in the world.. is a man that has nothing to lose"

..any copy cats would absolutely have to fail into that category and be somewhat intelligent to boot. That's asking a lot.
But of course, you may have a point with straight up lunatics, but by that count, that's what Newtown, Aurora , the other shootings are...nothing new there.

Secondly, this may very well be one of those cases where 'giving Dorner' what he wants is the wisest move.

I mean after all, who get's hurt?

The Killings stop.

We get a firehose turned loose in the LAPD .. flushing out all the ones keeping it from actually changing.

The part of his manifesto where he talks about cops clicking off snapshots of dead people at crimes scenes, consoling their loved ones with one arm then shooting (cell phone sending) off the pics among each other to see who 'wins the most gruesome dead photo of the night award'...is completely insane.

It looks like Mayor Villaraigosa is off to poor start in handling this, or perhaps Chief Beck told the Mayor that 'if he wants someone infront of the cameras announcing a $1 million dollar Reward...that he, the mayor himself should do it'. If tehre ever was a need for a stalling 'wait and see cautious' approach to a situation....this is it.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 79):
He has gripes, some of which may or not be true. Even after reading his manifesto we're not getting both sides of the story right?

You're getting more from this one guy than any cop will ever admit you in your life.... and certainly more than what LAPD will ever publicly disclose.


BN747

[Edited 2013-02-10 17:24:08]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 82, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 81):
You're getting more from this one guy than any cop will ever admit you in your life.... and certainly more than what LAPD will ever publicly disclose.

But, why was his partner suspicious of him? Might she have seen him do or say things that raised a red flag? Surely not every single person in LAPD is corrupt as he asserts. Yes, there are corrupt cops in ever department all over this country. No one disputes that. I just wonder what happened between he and his CO in LAPD that he did not say in his manifesto.

There are sick and perverted people in every job. I could tell you things about working in food service that will make you never want to eat again. Others in health care have similar stories. Didn't KAL 007 stray off course because all flight crew fell asleep? That's pretty bad. No one but no one is suggesting we convict or forgive every single officer on LAPD. But, some of us are still wondering what made his commanding officer question him.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 83, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 82):

But, why was his partner suspicious of him? Might she have seen him do or say things that raised a red flag?

You really are unfamiliar with cop culture aren't you? Go hang out at court house and observe when the are involved in a trial. Cop Culture is very similar as a group a firemen, soldiers..it's a very tight knit group.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 82):
Surely not every single person in LAPD is corrupt as he asserts.

..and that statement right there is brazenly false and proves you have not read a word the man has written.

He praises several police officers all the from his days as a kid police explorer, thru training and while on duty and naming them all directly.

It's very unlike such a well composed person as yourself who's post I've come to know as always well studied and up to speed, to pull a Bill O'Reilly like blanket generalization like that does take me by surprise..from others I expect that, not you seb146.

I'm surprised that you haven't even bothered to read it after so many post.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-10 23:40:07]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 84, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2970 times:
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I always say 2 wrongs don't make a right. As bad as the things that Dorner is accused of doing are. The police shooting first at 3 separate vehicles in this manhunt severely lowers the sympathy level for them. Sadly we will only ever hear on side of the story that's the side the authorities give us. If/When Dorner is capture, he will certainly be killed.

On a lighter note LL Cool J better stay out of the streets of southern California. He has a a crazy resemblance to Dorner.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2830 posts, RR: 8
Reply 85, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 84):
He has a a crazy resemblance to Dorner.

Yeah, just like the 71 year old woman delivering papers with her 43 year old daughter, both Lucky to be alive.  



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 86, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 84):

On a lighter note LL Cool J better stay out of the streets of southern California. He has a a crazy resemblance to Dorner.

I bet if he's stepped out of his element anywhere to buy a pack of smokes or whatever..the cops were immediately called!

..not only that, but with football season over a lot of thick bald non-descript linemen must fall into that 'looks like Dorner' category too, add to it a cool $1 million bounty... the hotlines must be burning up - jeez talk about making things worse how on earth are they ever going to 'refine' their leads amid all that?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 85):



Yeah, just like the 71 year old woman delivering papers with her 43 year old daughter, both Lucky to be alive

Who says the Keystone Cops have retired?...they just relocated and are quite jittery at the moment.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 87, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 83):
You really are unfamiliar with cop culture aren't you? Go hang out at court house and observe when the are involved in a trial. Cop Culture is very similar as a group a firemen, soldiers..it's a very tight knit group.

What does that have to do with anything? Just like every profession, there are tight knit groups. There are those who do their job but don't get involved in such things. And there are loners.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 83):
that statement right there is brazenly false and proves you have not read a word the man has written.

Yes I read his manifesto and yes I know about cop life from my cousin who is a detective in San Diego. As I said: there are corrupt cops and there are tight knit groups and there are loners in every profession.

I just wonder if Dorner is a loner who wanted to fit in but has victimization issues or something? Or, maybe he was taken advantage of by the system once and decided that is how the whole system works and wanted to change the whole system, even though not every cop is corrupt? Or maybe he is just bat crap crazy? Or, he is a hero, as you seem to be alluding to.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 88, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 83):
You really are unfamiliar with cop culture aren't you? Go hang out at court house and observe when the are involved in a trial. Cop Culture is very similar as a group a firemen, soldiers..it's a very tight knit group.

What does that have to do with anything? Just like every profession, there are tight knit groups. There are those who do their job but don't get involved in such things. And there are loners.

it has Everything to with it!

Soldier, Cop military group bonding is unmatched by all other professions because the element of true power (license to kill) and authority is present on every level.

You don;t come close to that with your pals working at Kinkos or at Kmart. I'm sorry you feel that they are one and the same and as easily interchangeable. But they are not.

And being the pinnacle of macho occupations in a male dominated society, the 'close knit bonding' yields a rancor unmatched by any other profession...and in the most antagonistic ways if you are perceived different.

The Good Ol' Boy Network - this occupation started it! Perfected it and will be the last to do away with it. Please don;t insult my intelligence by acting like it's no big deal, in that case feel free to just hope into the pilots lounge and jib and jive with 787 pilots and tell 'em you can relate.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 83):
that statement right there is brazenly false and proves you have not read a word the man has written.

Yes I read his manifesto and yes I know about cop life from my cousin who is a detective in San Diego. As I said: there are corrupt cops and there are tight knit groups and there are loners in every profession

and I have a cuz who is a detective on a major police force (bigger than San Diego PD my a mile).

But that has nothing to do with you making such a false and misleading claim that they guy was saying all LAPD cops are bad, corrupt and against him before he went renegade. You should at least be man enough to retract that statement.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):
Or, maybe he was taken advantage of by the system once and decided that is how the whole system works and wanted to change the whole system, even though not every cop is corrupt?

He never said that.

YOU said he did and you know you're wrong.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):
Or maybe he is just bat crap crazy?

He very well could be. But we've seen those types here on A.net too...so what?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):
Or, he is a hero, as you seem to be alluding to.

You can feel good about yourself trying paint me that way and I hope it works for you..

..but I live here in the area, and I care about who is providing police services and have seen too much of it over the years not to care. That leaves me not to miss out on the extremely rare opportunity to take the advantage of peeking into the actual inside goings-on within the sprawling legendary and sometimes dubious organization called the LAPD.

Intelligence says examine everything you can get your hands on...regardless of the source. This is the era of wiki-leaks.

Ignorance says dismiss insightful intel or info and just take on a child-like mentality and live with and settle for 'He's crazy'

People's lives are at stake here, within the LAPD and opposite the LAPD, you say I'm calling him a hero... I say this is the greatest opportunity to change an organization that NEEDS it desperately before it's too late (see lesson learned from LA riots...or lessons NOT learned) and for better or worse, this opportunity was offered up thru the misfortunes of one of their own.. the most unlikely of gifted horses (the opportunity) we'll ever get.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-11 09:23:51]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 89, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2834 times:
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Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):
Or, maybe he was taken advantage of by the system once and decided that is how the whole system works and wanted to change the whole system, even though not every cop is corrupt?

This has nothing to do with changing the system. He states this whole thing is about one thing, and one thing only. His name. He wants his name cleared, whether by admission by the LAPD or by way of the media digging and exposing the corruption to validate his claims.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 12
Reply 90, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 87):
I just wonder if Dorner is a loner who wanted to fit in but has victimization issues or something?

Judging from his manifesto he certainly has victimization issues combined with a short fuse. See for instance below examples whereby the italics are direct quotes from Dorner's manifesto.

He mentions in his manifesto that he first came in contact with racism in elementary school. His response was "swift and non-lethal ... (Dorner) struck him fast and hard with a punch an kick". Remember, that was back in elementary school! The principal got word of it and swatted the kid for swearing, and "for some unknown reason swatted (Dorner) for striking the xx in response to him calling (Dorner) a (expletive)".

Another example from his youth (1996) concerns the assistant principal of Cypress High School. The principal lied about something he said earlier to Dorner while in the presence of Dorner's mother and a police officer. Again, this guy really knows how to cultivate grudges!

Another example, an incident that happened while he was driving with eight or more police officers in a van. Dorner overheard one of the officers say (expletive). Dorner told the other officer not to use that word. That officer and another one said they would continue using (expletive) when the wanted to. "At that point (Dorner) jumped over (his) front passenger seat and two other officers where (he) placed (his) hands around xx's neck and squeezed. (Dorner) stated to xx, "Don't (expetive) say that".

With a short fuse like that this guy had no place at all in the police force.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 91, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2795 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 88):
Intelligence says examine everything you can get your hands on...regardless of the source.

INCLUDING the testimony of the hearings he brought up. That has not been seen here. Just how his manifesto is the only gospel worth taking into account. What happened between he and his fellow officers leading up to the hearings? What happened between he and his fellow Naval personel before he was discharged? What happened? And not just his side of events.

His manifesto says he was ganged up on in one hearing. What would be the reasoning for that? Was it because the other officers actually hated him that much or was it because he did something to one or more other officers? Did other officers witness something he did that made them question his capacity? What happened there?

Again: There is corruption in police departments. No one is saying there is not. No matter how many time you tell me I don't say that, I do. Over and over again: corruption exists. Go back and read my posts. My problem is when people snap like this and paint themselves as martyrs and saints when they were actually part of the problem. People call themselves victims when they contributed to their own lot in life. Dorner makes it sound like the entire LAPD needs to be scrapped because he percieves wide spread corruption. Let me be clear: there is corruption in every department across the country. Should we scrap every police department because there is corruption? Because 1 out of 1000 or 1 out of 10,000 or 1 out of 1,000,000 cops is corrupt?

It is like SOME people on welfare blaming "the man" for keeping them down when SOME of those on welfare never go looking for work. But, they paint themselves as victims. I use the qualifier "SOME" because there are those on welfare who actually need it. Not that you will see I wrote that.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 89):
He states this whole thing is about one thing, and one thing only. His name. He wants his name cleared

Well, let's see ALL the evidence and not just his manifesto! What did he contribute before the charges and what was the reaction of his superiors before charges were brought? We can't just simply look at his manifesto and say "Yep! He is the victim!" We have to get ALL the facts. Not just facts from one side.

That is the "liberal" in me, wanting all the facts. And, no, I will NOT apologize for it!

[Edited 2013-02-11 11:15:29]


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 92, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 90):
Another example from his youth (1996) concerns the assistant principal of Cypress High School. The principal lied about something he said earlier to Dorner while in the presence of Dorner's mother and a police officer. Again, this guy really knows how to cultivate grudges!

Okay, wait .. above you have no problem quoting 'exactly' what was written in the manifesto, then suddenly you decide you want paraphrase and take liberties of your own in telling the story.

The principle personally had told him he knew the kid was guilty of stealing his watch from his locker - Then infront of Dorner and his mother, the very same Principal denied it all making Dorner look like a complete liar in front of his mom - which apparently meant a lot to him.

Why would you intentionally go thru the effort to miss tell that story vs 'copying and pasting' as you did above?

What exactly is your angle?

With kid being a police explorer, it seems if anything this guy was one of the kids who really believed that truth telling and justice are real virtues and important in structured society.


Consistent with his viewpoint as an adult.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 90):
Another example, an incident that happened while he was driving with eight or more police officers in a van. Dorner overheard one of the officers say (expletive). Dorner told the other officer not to use that word. That officer and another one said they would continue using (expletive) when the wanted to. "At that point (Dorner) jumped over (his) front passenger seat and two other officers where (he) placed (his) hands around xx's neck and squeezed. (Dorner) stated to xx, "Don't (expetive) say that".

That incident involved another officer speaking of black civilians on the street in Hollywood as 'niggers'... Dorner affter confirming he had indeed heard the guy repeatedly using the term...asked or told him to stop it. The officer refused and was joined by a second saying he would use it too whenever he felt like it. And yes as most black men in America would do...he made the guy eat his words.

Since you find this all so innocuous and petty, climb on board a bus full of Rugby players and start calling them 'queers and poofters'..and see if they don't beat the snot out of you. The difference here is calling a black person nigger or speaking in such manner while they are present is unacceptable. The officer involved is very lucky Dorner warned him first to cease doing it before he attacked him. You are indeed exceptionally unaware of how the 'nigger' thing plays out in a taunting manner in America the way that you dismiss it so easily.

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 90):
With a short fuse like that this guy had no place at all in the police force.

Most American cops have a short fuse..period! Come over stand next to 25L at LAX and start snapping of photos and let them hear your accent, you'll see how short a fuse is.

What, you think they're life coach instructors? America is a rather aggresive society, their police have to be even more aggressive to counter balance it WHEN FACED with it on a seconds notice, unfortunately many of them start right off the bat aggressively without hesitation or consideration of anything.

I've had only two encounters with 'particular local Police Agency', both times were bad. Both cops were perspiring and huffing and puffing and looking for a fight as soon as they spoke. I detected as much right off the bat and just stayed cool... there's nothing or not much they can do when you're totally none confrontational (although in some cases they have still gone on to needlessly humiliate people).

The 1st encounter simply ended in a traffic warning although I had done nothing wrong.

The 2nd encounter - I was driving by blasting my music in my convertible passing a bunch cops shooting the sh-t. Next thing I know, I'm being pulled over. His 1st words were not 'do you know why i pulled you over?'...but were 'You have the audacity to drive by a bunch of cops blasting music?" (it was really cool jazz on a beauty Southern Calif evening'..

I said I knew it was loud by didn't think it was that bad. He informed me that 'if I can hear it from 50ft, that's a violation! I can pull you over and cite you for that! License, Registration and Insurance, now!"

I said 'I didn't know the exact distance, but okay, I'm sorry and certainly in violation' and passed documents over to him.

He came back after running plates checks and everything... and goes..

I decided not to cite you for loud music by instead 'for expired plates, sign here..."

I said they are not expired, there is the Temporary Registration (a giant DMV issued square sticker stuck in the windshield with a number 10 - meaning October) and the current year. And I offered him all the DMV paperwork showing all fees paid up to date.

He blatantly lied and said 'The DMV doesn't issue those anymore..!"

Flabbergasted, I said 'I didn't just print all this up on my computer and stick it on there'

He looked at it and said 'It isn't even filled out!' .. me: 'sure it is look closer, and here is the paper working backing it up.'

He then says, '...well, go the court and sort it all out there.."

and he took off.

The next day I went to his precinct to lodge a complaint.

NOW this is lesson to learn for anyone reading this.

As I waited my turn, a guy ahead of me was attempting to resolve and issue, after the duty Sgt. told him to have a seat and turned to listen to my complaint (upon afterwards, he then tried to convince me to take it to court) but I asked to speak to a supervisor, he told me he'd convey that and to have a seat. I did.

Moments, later a attractive woman came and sat next to me and told me she had overheard my story and that she had worked in a large Police Dept in another city and concluded I'd surely have to go to court to have it dismissed and she went about how some cops are douches, etc..

I knew that but didn't decide to verbally agree..I just nodded and listened. Then I said how my personal experiences with certain agencies were actually pretty good (especially one I mentioned here in another thread) and how professional they were..but how this particular incident was very unbecoming, unjust and simply not right.

...at that moment, a loud speaker came on and someone from behind the giant one-way mirror spoke over a loudspeaker and ask if for the 1st guy, and an entire two-way conversation ensued over the air. And I was like 'Holy shit, they've heard every word any of us spoke out here in the lobby' - Man am I glad I didn't trash talk the cops in their house.

The Supv came out asked for me, asked me to walk with him, explain the situation and review my documents and vehicle. He then turned and said 'Don't worry, let me copy this, and I'll take of the rest'

..and he did.

This is how things ought to work.

Nothing or no one can convince me that had I openly shared that woman's views about crazy cops, this situation would have been corrected. I simply repeated what had actually happened (and they saw it was sincere and void of emotion) and the right Supervisor just happened to be on duty at that moment. It could have easily gone the other way if that moron cop's buddy had been the Supervisor.

And I believe this is the kind of police officer Dorner tried to be and it was found that the blue line comes above all things period. If I had to go to court over some clown who has no business being a cop like that moron who stopped me..I'd have a very different attitude about 'all cops' at this point. But the right kind of cop re-ignited some faith that perhaps we can get it right and do the right thing more than we are now.

Sorry for the long story, but aggressive cops are the norm in this country, not the exception. Where you get this idea that they Yoga Gurus and gentle beings I'll never know.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3363 posts, RR: 12
Reply 93, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
then suddenly you decide you want paraphrase and take liberties of your own in telling the story.

It was a long story, so that's why I went abbreviated, but you're right in that I should have provided more background.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
climb on board a bus full of Rugby players and start calling them 'queers and poofters'..and see if they don't beat the snot out of you

They probably will. But I hold police officers to a higher standard then Joe average. Probably that's just me being used to European policing. Mostly Dutch policing at that who are admittedly a tad softer then the police forces of neighbouring countries. I've only been to the US twice and can't say I noticed the "aggresiveness" of cops. Of course I did not have much to do with them so my personnal experience is pretty much a moot point.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 94, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 93):
I've only been to the US twice and can't say I noticed the "aggresiveness" of cops.

That's because most cops are good, which many seem to forget. But there are plenty of bad apples that give them a bad name.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 95, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 91):
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 89):
He states this whole thing is about one thing, and one thing only. His name. He wants his name cleared

Well, let's see ALL the evidence and not just his manifesto!

ALl I can say to you is... do you seriously think you'll live to see such a day that not only LAPD, but any US police force will share that with you? Seriously?

If you do, go buy a lotto ticket tonight..anywhere because you are certain to win.

Have you learned nothing from the past 20 years about 'redacted sensitive information, for security reasons we cannot divulge in '______' , ... I repeat, you've just read the closest insight you wil ever get in your life about the goings on in that or any major police department.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 96, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 93):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
climb on board a bus full of Rugby players and start calling them 'queers and poofters'..and see if they don't beat the snot out of you

They probably will. But I hold police officers to a higher standard then Joe average. Probably that's just me being used to European policing. Mostly Dutch policing at that who are admittedly a tad softer then the police forces of neighbouring countrie

That my friend is the truth, I've been to Holland 4 times (love the country) and the people, and have observed the Dutch police in action at Schiphol and in Amsterdam (who can miss drunken tourist)..in all cases you are correct the Dutch cops are far more accommodating and tolerant that the US cops hands down. But I've also seen some push them way too far and they checked the dude really quick...like 0 to 60 in no time flat!

However, they're policing methods won't work here, they'd get ran over in ever direction possible here.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 97, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2758 times:
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Quoting seb146 (Reply 91):
Well, let's see ALL the evidence and not just his manifesto! What did he contribute before the charges and what was the reaction of his superiors before charges were brought? We can't just simply look at his manifesto and say "Yep! He is the victim!" We have to get ALL the facts. Not just facts from one side.

I'm not defending him! I simply wanted to make sure we all understood what his motives are.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 98, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 97):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 91):


I'm not defending him!

He drew that conclusion with me as well... the question is what kind of Liberal accepts LAPD's spin on anything? That's Huffington Post special interview right there all by itself.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 99, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 97):
I'm not defending him! I simply wanted to make sure we all understood what his motives are.

And that's fine. He had noble motives. HAD. Until he murdered in the name of clearing his name. After that, all bets are off. But, since people still want to think he has a valid point, I would like to see ALL evidence. Not just his manifesto. What led up to his firing? What were the motives of other officers? How did he treat them? How did they treat him?

But, the whole point is moot since his stated goal is to kill officers. Just to clear his name. "I'm right and I will kill all of you until you tell me I am right" sounds like his rant.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineitsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 9
Reply 100, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):

Most American cops have a short fuse..period!

Kind of a sweeping statement, isn't it? Not surprising.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
I've had only two encounters with 'particular local Police Agency', both times were bad.

Not surprising, either.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
although I had done nothing wrong.

Of course you hadn't.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
I said 'I didn't know the exact distance, but okay, I'm sorry and certainly in violation' and passed documents over to him.

Yes. Given your obvious disdain for law enforcement, I'm sure those were your exact words and actions.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 95):
I repeat, you've just read the closest insight you wil ever get in your life about the goings on in that or any major police department.

And yet another sweeping statement. A sweeping ill informed statement.

So just some insight for those here who aren't law enforcement officers. I am assuming none of you, other than active military in a combat scenario have ever been hunted because of what you do for a living. I am also assuming that none of you have ever had a loved one hunted or killed, because of what you do for a living. Three people are dead, and a forth nearly so, because they were either directly or indirectly related to the law enforcement profession. And the responsible used to be one of us. Same uniform, same badge, same training. And, in a sick twisted way, until we catch him, he actually still is one of us because he's trained to think like us. I'm most certainly not condoning the shooting of innocent people (for the record, LAPD was involved in only one of those incidents - Torrance PD was involved in the other) and the officers who were responsible should be and will be held accountable. But words cannot describe the level of anxiety and emotion that is being felt right now. The every day stresses of the job are enough but now the reality is, any vehicle that pulls up next to you at a stop light is a potential threat to your life. Any call you're dispatched on, whether it be a hot shot run or a simple report run, is a potential ambush. And that's just what cops are experiencing right now. I haven't scratched the surface of how the loved ones of those of us in law enforcement are feeling right now. So for the likes of BN747 who sit in your comfortable chairs in front of your computers in your little world of anonymity and speak disparagingly of a profession and members of a profession you have zero first hand knowledge of, I suggest that, at least in this case, you give your keyboard a rest. Instead, fire up the TV and watch some episodes of COPS or some Hillstreet Blues reruns, or whatever TV show you watch that qualifies you as an expert in law enforcement and quit with the armchair quarterbacking.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2830 posts, RR: 8
Reply 101, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
So just some insight for those here who aren't law enforcement officers.


Not sure I want some !
Gee, cops must really be "touchy" at the moment...... Look at this circus !

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...ender/story-fnddckzi-1226576023540

[Edited 2013-02-11 18:34:10]

[Edited 2013-02-11 18:34:54]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinen229nw From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1945 posts, RR: 32
Reply 102, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Whatever legitimate grievances the guy had, wtf with people defending him, on Facebook or anywhere else?!?!

I read the manifesto, or most of it. This guy is clearly unhinged and has cracked. My guess is that a lot of what he says is true but also that he had problems getting along with people and a bit of it is a paranoid spin on the way his actions and those of others unfolded. In any case, no rational person tries to "clear his name" by gunning down his colleagues' children.

Of course: racism is a major problem in many police departments, for a variety of reasons, and partly because it is a profession that does sometimes attract people with racist ideas. Furthermore, the nature of the authority structure is that cops need to protect their image and their institution as a whole, and so, as with other institutions protecting their own (e.g. church sex scandals, Penn State, military misdeeds, etc.), there are often cover-ups and collusions. That's true everywhere, and when there is an "official" side of the story in these cases, I am often skeptical. I wasn't surprised to find out that Jean-Charles de Menzies in London had not actually jumped the turnstile, etc. etc. when the police shot him, and so forth. And that despite the fact that I think that the Met is probably one of the best large police forces in the world.

Also, like another poster, I have had bad luck with LAPD officers relative to officers in other US cities I have lived in, almost like night and day even compared for example to the NYPD--in LA many more with massive authoritarian complexes on multiple occasions when I was younger, and I've been present when they have made utterly inappropriate statements about people while on duty, such as saying my friend should have been "shot at birth" because of his haircut when I was in high school--that after following him and pulling him over for no reason.

Now, take a step back.

1.) Some bullies don't mean that the majority of LA cops are bad eggs. There are all kinds, and plenty of good, solid people with the best of intentions, doing a tough job that wears one down.

2.) And more central here: no matter what, there is no excuse for killing a cop, let alone killing family members of a person you feel was not a good enough advocate at your trial. That's like saying that high school kids who are bullied are excused when they mow down their schoolmates with an assault rifle. Or that terrorists are justified in targeting American civilians because their countries have been hurt by American policies, etc.

At this time, I'm keeping all LAPD members and their families in my thoughts. I hope he is caught soon.

[Edited 2013-02-11 19:34:01]


It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 103, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

I noticed on the news today that the LAPD is speculating that Dorner might have the abilities to pilot an aircraft.
In turn the LAPD is staking out all airports.
Let's hope the LAPD does not shoot down an aircraft with an innocent pilot and passengers inside.

Okie


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 104, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
I said 'I didn't know the exact distance, but okay, I'm sorry and certainly in violation' and passed documents over to him.

Yes. Given your obvious disdain for law enforcement, I'm sure those were your exact words and actions.

Absolutely correct, I'm no fool. I know how to cheese up and having the 'right address' + good attitude has gotten me out of moving traffic violations 9.9 times out of 10. Even from an LAX PD when I intentionally entered the 'traffic coned off area (during the holidays after 9/11) because I saw my brother standing on the curbside and saw no standing cop...he appeared out nowhere, talked, paper check, talked - let me go. My brother got into my car and said these very words..

"How the holy hell did you pull that off???? I just watch that guy ticket 10 people in a row for doing exactly what you just did...!!"

Think what you wish, I know exactly the what many of you are about...it's not the big magical mystical secret handshake club only a few can know about... but knock yourself out thinking that it is,

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 95):
I repeat, you've just read the closest insight you wil ever get in your life about the goings on in that or any major police department.

And yet another sweeping statement. A sweeping ill informed statement.

What, who's going to give us more unbiased -insight? YOU?
Not a chance!

LAPD?
Hell will freeze over first.

Any government commission?
Tried that...didn't work.

So where will a truth accounting what goes on inside any governmental agency ever come from? Two places.

1) A wiki-leaks type revelation

2) A whistle blower (yeah, a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind)... I'll take his word over someone trying to protect their turf and image any day of the week.





Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
. I'm most certainly not condoning the shooting of innocent people (for the record, LAPD was involved in only one of those incidents - Torrance PD was involved in the other) and the officers who were responsible should be and will be held accountable.

The history of such cops equal one thing...
Translation: Promoted

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
So for the likes of BN747 who sit in your comfortable chairs in front of your computers in your little world of anonymity and speak disparagingly of a profession and members of a profession you have zero first hand knowledge of, I suggest that, at least in this case, you give your keyboard a rest.

I hope you do your job better than leveling assessments about someone that you think you know than on display here.
Everyone on this board has had some exposure with their local police to some extent and because they aren't police themselves doesn't make them ignorant.

They (for the most part) know how to put themselves in a policemans' shoes. To ask themselves, would I want this job of separating one drunk fool husband from his more drink fool wife - day in and day out,

I lost a cousin from a Sheriff Dept 5 years ago.

I have another who is a 25+ year detective on PD of one of our largest east coast cities.

And for the Know-it-Alls out there, BN747 has four years in the USAF under the specialty code AFSC 81130, but you already know what that is.


You can say to yourself , these are all just words and none of it's true - but I know that's just long standing hate and animosity speaking that dates back to the days of pro-Iraq war vs anti-Iraq war (my side) when I didn't fall in line with the flag waving bullies who no longer dominate this forum. I didn't fold then and attempts to make me a liar back then proved false and they just as weak now. The truth is, my truth prevailed in the end that flag waving patriotic crap then turned out lie that killed millions for nothing, including ruining the lives of many of our servicemen while enriching those who invested in it. The seething hatred hasn't subsided since...

It''s interesting, I criticize my cousin's PD as badly as I do the LAPD and he completely understands and owns up to the things they get wrong and makes no excuses for it and yet these internet act like their professions can do no wrong at all..ever! And lash out viciously towards those that do. No one on this board can find a single sentence from me defending the harshness leveled at my profession...why because I know the things the say about my profession is true and I respect the opinions of the uninformed as well as the well informed. It';s a shame that other grown men haven't also reached that level of maturity.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 105, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):I've had only two encounters with 'particular local Police Agency', both times were bad.
Not surprising, either.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):although I had done nothing wrong.
Of course you hadn't.

I was arrested by my hometown police on a warrent from the other side of the state. Years ago. I knew both officers who arrested me and all the people who booked and released me. Luckily, it was only over a parking ticket on state land, so the bail was only $75. The junior officer who arrested me was a jerk in school but toned it down when they arrested me. He still gave me attitude. It is that way with every cop I have ever encountered. That is why I try my very hardest not to encounter cops! I don't even like going to city hall or county court. Anyone with a badge has a poor attitude.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 104):
A wiki-leaks type revelation

Great idea! That actually carries some weight. Those kinds of memos are researched.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 104):
A whistle blower (yeah, a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind)...

Until that disgruntled employee murders. Until then, under FEDERAL and STATE law they actually have safe guards. If he had gone to Sacramento under whistle blower guidelines, he would have his grievences heard. But, he murdered people, so that goes out the window.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 104):
I criticize my cousin's PD as badly as I do the LAPD and he completely understands and owns up to the things they get wrong and makes no excuses for it and yet these internet act like their professions can do no wrong at all..ever

My cousin with San Diego PD has an attitude. Even when he is not in uniform. He still thinks he is better than everyone else. He also knows there are problems with race relations among the beat cops. He knows there are attitudes way worse than his. He knows that some people, like Dorner, will find their own undoing soon enough.

I guess what I still don't understand is: Why is Dorner still given hero status when he has killed and has vowed to kill again? Why is that such a good thing?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 106, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2591 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):
That is why I try my very hardest not to encounter cops! .

The smartest attitude possible because you just don't what's on this guys mind, but I must admit..there is clearly a difference in how they treat you based on the address that comes up in your plates and drivers license - seen it too many times. But having a civil attitude a great plus too.

If you're a douche to them -bad cop or good cop -...well, hopefully you've done the math and concluded you can handle what comes next.

Before I make an illegal U-turn or pull a stunt like that I mentioned above (which worked out great considering I got caught), I scan quite carefully if any cops are around and before committing the act.. I ask myself, is it worth it and can I handle it's worse possible outcome (which would be a heavy fine) most of the time it's affirmative and other times I'm like 'what's the rush...just chill'

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):
I don't even like going to city hall or county court.

I don't mind..a very interesting setting with the things you hear going on. Especially in downtown LA, there's always crap you'd never even imagine cropping up. It's also where i witnessed two cops observing the jury duty voir dire process and cracked jokes at the minority citizens who were being excused..acting completely like children. I couldn't believe they had the nerve to do it so publicly. Nonetheless, you look and you learn.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):
Anyone with a badge has a poor attitude.

That I cannot get on board with, because as pointed out above, that Supervisor step up and corrected a huge wrong. And I've met some pretty decent cops on several local depts like in my area. And some very cool French cops (but most Euro cops are very cool) while I was shooting at an airport.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 104):
I criticize my cousin's PD as badly as I do the LAPD and he completely understands and owns up to the things they get wrong and makes no excuses for it and yet these internet act like their professions can do no wrong at all..ever

My cousin with San Diego PD has an attitude. Even when he is not in uniform.

...and that's the type you got to be aware of, very dangerous. I've seen a lot of those types. Just trouble waiting to happen.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):

He also knows there are problems with race relations among the beat cops. He knows there are attitudes way worse than his.

well at least he's aware of the thing that makes people non-cooperative and find it hard to support their local cops. It seems too many of the bad cops rely on the deeds of the good cops and take the advantage of extended courtesies.

It's like a soldier, you say 'This for your service and serving out country..' you mean well, but the guy you just thanked just raped some Iraq farm girl and no one is the wiser...sure that's rare, but you (we) have no idea what guy just did..but we just extend the benefit that he was a good soldier and walk away satisfied that we did our patriotic duty. Same with bad cops hiding among the ranks of the good ones... there's just no way to tell. It's not like they wear arm band ...green for good and purple for troubled soul. That confusion and mixed signals is what is splintering the public and causing American police to lose the edge in Public Relations.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):

I guess what I still don't understand is: Why is Dorner still given hero status when he has killed and has vowed to kill again? Why is that such a good thing?

From what I've seen (comments on various sites)... he's being mostly supported by gang types, edgy hipster types, the typical 'I hate Pigs' types, the very crowd they had a historic antagonistic relation with..people of color/minorities.

..and eerily, some seemingly 'average joe types' who are not necessarily 'cheering him on..' but they are sort of on the fence and are looking more at LAPD than worrying about Dorner. Their take seems to sound more like 'yeah we know there's a killer out there, but he's not after us...he's mad you guys, his own people...what's up with that?'

That's why in my 1st post in this thread, I suggested how the LAPD handles this ..determines the public will behave. LAPD is handling just as expected poorly. You don't have a Police Capt quoted in the Press saying 'I haven't left my house nor do I plan on leaving.."... you stay silent in that regard and speak and own up to the failures of the Christopher Commission and take action.

Everyone has heard this a million times..and know it cares the same weight a 'political promise'

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 100):
LAPD was involved in only one of those incidents - Torrance PD was involved in the other) and the officers who were responsible should be and will be held accountable.

"...will be held accountable.." that only occurs when an example is needed to made of someone. Other than that, they like Rolando Solano (1 of the 1st five cops on the Rodney King case) becomes a Captain in the West LAPD div.

If all or most of such troublesome people were truly 'held accountable'..people would be out in force helping to capture Dorner.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 107, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 106):
From what I've seen (comments on various sites)... he's being mostly supported by gang types, edgy hipster types, the typical 'I hate Pigs' types

Every time I see one, I think "F-- the police" too. But, I do not ever want to see any of them shot dead. I just don't want to talk to any of them.

Dorner just wants them all shot dead.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 106):
That I cannot get on board with, because as pointed out above, that Supervisor step up and corrected a huge wrong.

TSA and mall cops have poor attitudes. Even supervisors are mean. I just don't trust anyone with a badge. Which is why I try my hardest not to deal with anyone with a badge. Give a person a bagde and it goes right to their head!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2425 posts, RR: 8
Reply 108, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

I'm on the fence myself.

The Socal Mafia....I mean the LAPD has a history of discrimination, and has so far shot 3, and held up at gunpoint others who fit his description. All in pursuit of Dorner... Dorner has killed 3 and shot 1.

We need a scoreboard on the major news sites. The LAPD is looking really good right now. I really wouldn't hesitate to call them if I had a problem.  



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineitsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 9
Reply 109, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Possible sighting and shootout between Dorner and Fish and Game officers at Big Bear. Preliminary word is one, maybe two officers shot. Some local stations now reporting officers are involved in a pursuit of a 4-wheel drive vehicle. Original incident was a home invasion by a suspect fitting Dorner's description in which the occupants were tied up and held hostage for a period of time.

Local ABC station now reporting Dorner is barricaded in a cabin and shots are being fired.

CNN now has the story live...

[Edited 2013-02-12 13:36:55]

[Edited 2013-02-12 13:41:39]

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 110, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

I doubt he will go alive, no doubt the LAPD and Riverside have kill orders out on him


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 111, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

First thing I thought of as I tuned to CNN was the SLA shootouts, and I was stunned to realize that that all happened in 1974! Gosh, time flies.

The Mayor of Big Bear Lake doesn't seem to be sure if Dorner escaped in the car he stole, or if he's barricaded. I have to believe that this all is going to end badly. Can't believe another two officers were shot today.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 112, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2453 times:
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Quoting L-188 (Reply 110):
I doubt he will go alive, no doubt the LAPD and Riverside have kill orders out on him


He fully intends to fight to the death, as stated in his manifesto.

Anyone catch the prank call during CBS coverage? Whoops...



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 113, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 112):
Anyone catch the prank call during CBS coverage? Whoops...

No, what happened?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 114, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

So now he is barricaded inside a cabin in the snow covered mountains.

Why is this starting to sound like Lee Marvin and Carl Weathers tryong to dig Charles Bronson out of that cabin in "Death Hunt"



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 115, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

CNN reporting that the LA Times is saying Dorner is holding a couple hostage in the cabin where he's barricaded himself.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 116, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 105):
Anyone with a badge has a poor attitude.

I have like 12 airport badges and my attitude is just.... ok nevermind...  



Well, looks like he's about done here. Hopefully they'll gas him out or something. These egomaniacs always want to go out in a hail of gun fire... I think it be great to see his sorry, delusional ass on trial after this suicide fail.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinehOmsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 113):
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 112):
Anyone catch the prank call during CBS coverage? Whoops...

No, what happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6CMKAGsFzY

Can find other videos (that's the first one I came across), just do a search for CBS prank call dorner



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 118, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2376 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting hOmsar (Reply 117):

Yeah, that's it.

Also weird was a CBS anchor not realizing he was live for a good 5 minutes. He got on his phone and asked the camera to be moved over a little...lol



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 119, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Damn, LA Times is reporting that another deputy has died in hospital from wounds received during the shootout earlier today.   


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 120, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

The building he was in is totally burned to the ground now and they're saying nobody has come out. He's finished.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 121, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

..and a second Manifesto..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...-christopher-dorner_n_2670513.html

..basically another ex-cop speaks out, in a non-threatening manner.

LAPD will feel a great sense of relief when this concludes, but unfortunately, they will learn nothing from it.
They did not learn a thing after the Christopher Commission (obviously .. this thread/incident proves that)
and it's a safe bet they won't learn a thing when this ends.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 122, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 121):
, they will learn nothing from it.

Since you know it all, what are the lotto numbers for tomorrow? Just because this is just wrapping up does not mean they will not change policies and follow them.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 123, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 122):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 121):
, they will learn nothing from it.

Since you know it all, what are the lotto numbers for tomorrow?

You're confused Mr Know-it-All has initials that start with a J and ends with an 'E'.. but for the Powerball I'd play
03, 17, 27, 39, 44 and you pick the Powerball.

And I want my cut if it hits.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 122):

Just because this is just wrapping up does not mean they will not change policies and follow them.

Well he did go out on his terms.

Because after a city-wide riot ripped the city to shreds...they didn't learn a single thing.

What prey tell do you expect such a recalcitrant organization do over a dead officer who turned on them?

Do tell...

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 124, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 120):
The building he was in is totally burned to the ground now and they're saying nobody has come out. He's finished.

It appears that's the case. The LA Times is now reporting that a body has been found in the cabin, but it may take "hours or days" to identify it.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 125, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2099 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 124):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 120):
The building he was in is totally burned to the ground now and they're saying nobody has come out. He's finished.

It appears that's the case. The LA Times is now reporting that a body has been found in the cabin, but it may take "hours or days" to identify it.

And now LAPD says no body found yet.

[Edited 2013-02-12 20:27:24]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 126, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 125):
And now LAPD saws no body found yet.

Oh blarg, you're right. I just skimmed through Jimmy Orr's tweets, and he says that the cabin is still too hot to search. Next update at 8am tomorrow. That makes sense.

Thanks for the correction!



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7140 posts, RR: 9
Reply 127, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

No body wants to confirm the body but if they were not sure he was dead they would not have gotten rid of all the road blocks etc.. He must be in there dead or else someone made some bad moves.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 128, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 123):
Because after a city-wide riot ripped the city to shreds...they didn't learn a single thing.

They must have learned something. Tell me how many riots there have been since?

Since LA is a liberal city, the HufPo article that has no threats will probably be investigated. If there are any teeth to it, there will be calls for investigations and changes.

But, when a murderer demands change or another person will be murdered (and their family) a manhunt ensues.

Which is better? Changing policy or massive manhunt?

Oh, and Powerball? We don't get that for another six weeks. Thanks, anyway!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 129, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 128):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 123):
Because after a city-wide riot ripped the city to shreds...they didn't learn a single thing.

They must have learned something. Tell me how many riots there have been since?

Ok, you don't get how this all happens... it's a build up process. Everyone connected on the streets knew the riots were about to explode when the Rodney King Cop Trial verdict came down .. while Chief Douchebag Gates was sipping champagne at a country club swearing up and down that '...everything was under control', when the very next day..all hell broke lose.

The build up process is the key and the people who are least aware of it's rising levels are those atop the heap... because destructive riots at the very bottom rung of society... the very same place where the majority of police abuse resides.

We're at this stage where the build up has been going on for quite sometime due to police harrassment, 'unarmed shootings' and beatings.

This Dorner event was HUGE because if it follows the trend of 'regular shootings' as we know them..

Trend = 1st postal shooting-> Office Shootings-> Columbine->Aurora (theater)->Portland (mall)->Newtown (children)

The trend seems that the bizarre attempts to one-up the bizarre preceding it. There is a sure fire pattern there that cannot be denied.

This current problem can only indicate other disgruntled officers are among current ranks, who knows where the hair-trigger lies that will push him over. It could be an Asian cop sick to death of all of the Asian jokes (Virginia Tech shooter was an Asian American), it could be a female, it could be a cop from any walk, but if Police officers do not stop acting like morons towards those that are different from them...I'm terribly afraid the next guy may SWAT attack and entire precinct (I believe a minor one has already occurred back east a few years back). But what must be done is quite simple, 'Respect' and update that 'Blue Line Code' with the rest of a rapidly evolving society.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 128):

But, when a murderer demands change or another person will be murdered (and their family) a manhunt ensues.

Which is better? Changing policy or massive manhunt?

A rather simplistic means of arriving at that 'or else' option... but true, but ask yourself this.

Just a few weeks ago, the Republican Party 'acknowledged' that it needs to change..then a few weeks later, it decides that the election game itself needs to change.. NOT them! - your question here 'change policies or more massive loses'...

...answer, don't even count on change from that lot. They're just not wired for it.

So save your Lotto cash, you go ahead and place your bets on 'Change' and I'll wager on 'Not Happening', let's see where it goes..

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-12 23:22:38]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 130, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 129):
Everyone connected on the streets knew the riots were about to explode when the Rodney King Cop Trial verdict came down

Because a self-professed white suprimicest was one of the cops. And you question why it happened? A white guy who hates blacks beat down a black guy and you wonder why?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 129):
Just a few weeks ago, the Republican Party 'acknowledged' that it needs to change..then a few weeks later, it decides that the election game itself needs to change.. NOT them!

What...

The...

F....

I don't even understand what you are talking about. What does that have to do with a cop killer?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2425 posts, RR: 8
Reply 131, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 130):
cop killer

That could be a double entendre if I've ever heard one. What about the three innocent people who were brutally shot by the LAPD in pursuit of Dorner?

Police across this nation have issues, and still will. Not all do, yet nothing will change. They view this man as a bad apple, and no systemic change is necessary in their opinion. For shame.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 132, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
The 1st encounter simply ended in a traffic warning although I had done nothing wrong.

Hey, this could be the opening entry in your manifesto.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 133, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 130):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 129):
Just a few weeks ago, the Republican Party 'acknowledged' that it needs to change..then a few weeks later, it decides that the election game itself needs to change.. NOT them!

What...

The...

F....

I don't even understand what you are talking about. What does that have to do with a cop killer?

LAPD -> Change = NOT!
GOP -> Change = NOT

The point was comparison of two separate recalcitrant parties on the same wave length, better known as simple math like 0.738 = 1⁄10x7+1⁄100x3=1⁄1000x8 - another means of expression.

... next time just ask a 7 year old about comparing equations to grasp concepts of equality.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 132):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
The 1st encounter simply ended in a traffic warning although I had done nothing wrong.

Hey, this could be the opening entry in your manifesto.

..and there you have the very reason Racism sticks around longer than it should the unstoppable and predictable ability of people to choose stupidity over sincerity, it's just so much more fun.

Being a cop in your future? The LAPD is hiring...you seem to have all the qualities they're looking for...

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-13 01:52:03]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 134, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 131):
Police across this nation have issues, and still will. Not all do, yet nothing will change. They view this man as a bad apple, and no systemic change is necessary in their opinion. For shame.

If he had not murdered people, there might have been change for the better. But, we will never know because it was either his way or no way.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 133):
LAPD -> Change = NOT!
GOP -> Change = NOT

The point was comparison of two separate recalcitrant parties on the same wave length

I still don't get it.

You are comparing police in the largest city in the West to a national political party. Neither has anything to do with the other. You are trying to claim that LAPD is 1 and GOP is 1 and 1+1=2. What I see is LAPD is 1 and GOP is radishes. One has nothing to do with the other.

The only thing even remotely similar is the culture of acceptance. Even that is a streach.

Again: after reading the manifesto, Dorner makes it sound like the culture of acceptance is department wide. The entire LAPD will not accept someone different. That is simply not true. There are groups of officers who are A personalities who do not like change and new people, but it is not the entire force.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7874 posts, RR: 52
Reply 135, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 133):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 132):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
The 1st encounter simply ended in a traffic warning although I had done nothing wrong.

Hey, this could be the opening entry in your manifesto.

..and there you have the very reason Racism sticks around longer than it should the unstoppable and predictable ability of people to choose stupidity over sincerity, it's just so much more fun.

Being a cop in your future? The LAPD is hiring...you seem to have all the qualities they're looking for...

Corrupt cop = harmless joke on an aviation forum? lol



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 136, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 134):

You are comparing police in the largest city in the West to a national political party

I'm comparing two prime (and widely known examples) of the most resistant level of stubbornness this side of the Taliban.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 134):
I still don't get it.

Good luck in school.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 135):
Being a cop in your future? The LAPD is hiring...you seem to have all the qualities they're looking for...

Corrupt cop = harmless joke on an aviation forum? lol

At least it's not you initiating the cheap shots this round...esp. after your hollow call 'more mutual respect' in another thread, someone else proxy'd in your stead. Basically, don't start none..there won't be none.

There's another 'lol' for ya'...

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-13 08:44:03]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 137, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 133):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 132):Quoting BN747 (Reply 92):
The 1st encounter simply ended in a traffic warning although I had done nothing wrong.

Hey, this could be the opening entry in your manifesto.

..and there you have the very reason Racism sticks around longer than it should the unstoppable and predictable ability of people to choose stupidity over sincerity, it's just so much more fun.

Being a cop in your future? The LAPD is hiring...you seem to have all the qualities they're looking for...

BN747

You_crack_me_up! You remind me of a pilot in CivAv who had a different point of view than mine, so proceeded to point out my personality defects and how he would never get in a plane with me. Seriously - because I disagree with you? lol

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 135):
Corrupt cop = harmless joke on an aviation forum? lol

Word.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 138, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1832 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 137):
You_crack_me_up! You remind me of a pilot in CivAv who had a different point of view than mine, so proceeded to point out my personality defects and how he would never get in a plane with me. Seriously - because I disagree with you? lol

No because I don't know you, have never conversed with you and the 1st and only thing you can do is jump into a thread and cheap shot someone over a serious discussion and cut out an run without any sincere input whatsoever.

Let's see..what does that remind me of... oh yea, the sniveling little sideliner who throws a rock into crowd hoping to score a cheap laugh (usually that ends around 7th grade) because in real life, the guts just aren't there. Yep..that's what reminds me of, sorry for the shortage of 'lol's.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-13 09:39:02]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 139, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1835 times:

Well there are now reports that the police tried to burn him out of the cabin.

Just a warning: I'll try And censor a bit of the language eased.

Reportedly police where heard over radio scanners to say, "f---ing burn this motherf---er" and burn that f--king house down" . Later the supervisors on scene discussed over the plan "go with the burners". And their plan to "bring fire"

Eventually as the fire started to progress the feed from the scanner was cut off by the police.

Apparently burner is slang for tear gas canisters and in is case the radio traffic seems to show that it was used to start the fire (the canisters get hot due to the reaction to create the gas).

This isn't e first time a fire has been linked to tear gas, the Feds still deny they states the branch division fire that killed a lot of kids in Waco Texas a few years back when they started a fire with tear gas.

Dormer was a murderer and needed to be stopped. There is no doubt of that. i don't buy into that hero worship of him going on.

But what we have he is a state sponsored summary execution by the officers trying to catch him. I believe the LAPD intentionally set that fire to kill him...just like the Bin Laudin raid their was no intention to capture him.

We should all be worried about that since if it can happen to him it can happen to you families too.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 26
Reply 140, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1829 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So back to the story...

I read this morning that they found a wallet and Dorner's California Drivers License with the charred body? Now I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but that seems awfully convenient.   

I thought they found his wallet and ID in San Diego last week?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 141, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 140):
I read this morning that they found a wallet and Dorner's California Drivers License with the charred body? Now I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but that seems awfully convenient

Well surely there's an explanation for that..

..the wallet was made of a titanium alloy and shielded the 2nd copy of his plastic drivers license..

works for me.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 139):

Reportedly police where heard over radio scanners to say, "f---ing burn this motherf---er" and burn that f--king house down" . Later the supervisors on scene discussed over the plan "go with the burners". And their plan to "bring fire"

Let that news spread... that'll fuel the 70+ supporting Facebook Pages on Dorner. If those reports hold true.. I stand backed up 100% vindicated on LAPD mentality and their inability to change anything beyond a shoe string.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-13 09:55:00]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20501 posts, RR: 62
Reply 142, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 1802 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 140):
I thought they found his wallet and ID in San Diego last week?

Oh man, that'll keep our resident tin foil hat wearers busy for months!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/12...edly-may-have-had-help-fleeing-to/

Quote:

Investigators say Dorner attempted to steal a boat in San Diego and drive it to Mexico. Dorner's wallet, including his identification cards, was also found at the San Ysidro Point of Entry near the U.S.-Mexico border, the Los Angeles Times reported.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 143, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 139):
But what we have he is a state sponsored summary execution by the officers trying to catch him. I believe the LAPD intentionally set that fire to kill him

Would we really expect anything different? They had standing kill orders on this guy the moment he was confirmed as the killer of the ex cop's daughter and husband and the manifesto went public.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 144, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1712 times:

As to his demise, the police used tear gas 'grenades' which often can set fires. They gave him one last chance to come out hands up and surrender, but he didn't. While the remains still need to be identified, probably with dental records, Dorner is 99.9% to be the body in that cabin.
Still deeper issues need to be examined from his acts and the claimed reasons from them, his mental and psychological health, the deep problems in the LAPD and many other police forces, and dealing with the reality of criminals.


User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 145, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 144):
Still deeper issues need to be examined from his acts and the claimed reasons from them, his mental and psychological health, the deep problems in the LAPD and many other police forces

There's little to examine. The LAPD is, and will continue to be, a corrupt force. They just happened to mess with a highly trained person with some loose screws (wouldn't surprise me if he suffered injuries consistent with causing PTSD while in Iraq).



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 146, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

I am just wondering about the owner/family that lived in the cabin. Just question whether or not LAPD had even determined if there were other people in the cabin before pulling their "Scorched Earth" policy.
That was probably going to be a $300M cabin by the time the legalities are over.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 140):
I thought they found his wallet and ID in San Diego last week

No telling where it will turn up next week. It seems to conveniently keep moving around.

Okie


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 147, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 136):
I'm comparing two prime (and widely known examples) of the most resistant level of stubbornness this side of the Taliban.

I don't know about LAPD but GOP at least has some people who are willing to open up, talk about things, talk about change and even try to change.

What does any of that have to do with an ex cop with a chip on his shoulder wanting to gun down police and their families and the hero worship of said ex cop?

Oh, that's right, he was wrongly fired, so he gets to kill and kill again, according to some. I was wrongly fired a couple of times. Does that mean I get to kill and kill again? Not in a civilized world. Which is not where Dorner was living.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 148, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 138):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 137):You_crack_me_up! You remind me of a pilot in CivAv who had a different point of view than mine, so proceeded to point out my personality defects and how he would never get in a plane with me. Seriously - because I disagree with you? lol
No because I don't know you, have never conversed with you and the 1st and only thing you can do is jump into a thread and cheap shot someone over a serious discussion and cut out an run without any sincere input whatsoever.

You know, if that one line is enough to get you fired up, then I don't know what to say. As far as the discussion goes, I don't see how it's possible for someone to dialogue with you about it because your mind is made up and I've seen how you interact. I'm not "cutting and running", I'm just avoiding getting drawn into a pointless argument with you. There are plenty of people who can disagree respectfully and intelligently at the same time. However, I don't necessarily disagree with you about everything.

As far as this guy goes, I think there very well could have been injustices that he witnessed. I think he could have grown resentful and ultimately irrational. I think he made a fatal decision but one that he chose freely. I think it ended pretty much how anyone would think it would. The LAPD may have plenty of problems, but I don't have evidence of it because I'm not anywhere close to there. My local dealings with police over 46 years have always been productive and cordial. I'm sure there are bad cops but the way that some on here describe the police, it is THEY who are not to be trusted. Well, I don't think you can truly trust ANYONE, but for the most part I think they are on the right side of things.

Anyhow......

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 149, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1531 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 143):
They had standing kill orders on this guy the moment he was confirmed as the killer of the ex cop's daughter and husband and the manifesto went public.

Do you have a copy of that standing order or is this something you saw on the Internet?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 145):
There's little to examine. The LAPD is, and will continue to be, a corrupt force. They just happened to mess with a highly trained person with some loose screws

So the entire LAPD is corrupt? Do you have anything to support this or is it something you saw on t net. How exactly did they mess with him? Terminating his employment because he was not cut out to be a police officer? Which is rather obvious considering his actions.

[Edited 2013-02-14 10:13:13]

User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 150, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 141):
I stand backed up 100% vindicated on LAPD mentality

Vindicated because of something that was supposedly said that you have no evidence support it with? Here's another bit of information. Where he was killed is not even in LA County or even the city of LA. Lets not also forget that in spite of his threats agains the LAPD he didnot kill one LAPD offcer. He murdered two civilians ad two police officers who were not LAPD.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1630 posts, RR: 2
Reply 151, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 79):
I'm thankful no one died because of it, but I also can't imagine knowing that if I was an LAPD officer I, and my family, were being hunted right now.

Doesn't justify opening fire on the cars like you are in goddamn Baghdad or Kabul about the get blown up by a VBIED

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 90):
With a short fuse like that this guy had no place at all in the police force.

That would rule out like 50% of the people service as Police officer, seeing how quite a bit of them have short fuses.