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Steven Seagal To Lead School Arms-training Event  
User currently offlinedragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3986 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

Steven Seagal will be leading an all-day training exercise for volunteers in Arizona, the training which will be demonstrating ways to respond during a school shooting.

Does anyone find anything wrong with this? I don't have a problem with this, he is a real-life reserve deputy sheriff and a martial art expert but I have seen online that some people think this is a bad idea.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywo.../seagal-arpaio-school-gun-training


Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
Does anyone find anything wrong with this?

I'm sure they will but that is just the name of the game...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

I see nothing wrong with this. These skills will come in handy if you are under siege.


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinehoMsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
These skills will come in handy if you are under siege.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
I have seen online that some people think this is a bad idea.

Does that really surprise you ? You're going to find people "on line" that think EVERYTHING is a bad idea.

Personally, I think it's damned good idea.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1238 times:

Quoting dragon-wings (Thread starter):
Steven Seagal will be leading an all-day training exercise for volunteers in Arizona, the training which will be demonstrating ways to respond during a school shooting.

PR stunt

He's probably going to have a book stand there flogging his wares after the course is over  



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinedl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1164 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):

Well played, sir.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8115 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

Who wants to live in such a world? Where mass shootings in schools are so common that it's a good idea to train kids what to do for when an armed madman comes for them. Awful awful awful.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1071 times:

He the Patriot, that is out for justice and wants to make sure his guys, are hard to kill, should they find themselves marked for death on deadly ground or as Superfly stated, "under siege" from somebody that thinks they are above the law and is out for a kill. This was an executive decision by the Sheriff to make the Glimmer man, teach his deputies, although he is the foreigner to Arizona, but there are too many exit wounds. and he does not want to become a dead man walking in a dark territory, since according to him, there is a fire down bellow the border, in Mexico. This is True justice, from a Sheriff with a bad ticker, that lives in the belly of the beast, just saying  

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1049 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 7):
Who wants to live in such a world? Where mass shootings in schools are so common that it's a good idea to train kids what to do for when an armed madman comes for them. Awful awful awful.

Well they are common, and no matter what actions taken right now, they can potentially continue. What's wrong with this? It's not the only solution, just a solution for the time being



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 7):
Who wants to live in such a world?



Me.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 7):
Where mass shootings in schools are so common that it's a good idea to train kids what to do for when an armed madman comes for them. Awful awful awful.



Who wants to live in such a world were people are only allowed to call 911 and wait while they're being gunned down by a vicious murderer?
Honestly I wish we could all live in a world where everyone was good but that world does not exist. I prefer to living in a society were I am allowed to defend myself.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
PR stunt



No actor has EVER done such a thing....  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 998 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Me.

Then go live there !

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Who wants to live in such a world were people are only allowed to call 911 and wait while they're being gunned down by a vicious murderer?

Emergency services work well in plenty of other civilized countries, sham America is different !

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Honestly I wish we could all live in a world where everyone was good but that world does not exist. I prefer to living in a society were I am allowed to defend myself.

Man, you really need to see more of the world. It exists !

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
No actor has EVER done such a thing....

Cheap shot, and at others expense... pretty sick really !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2411 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 998 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Who wants to live in such a world were people are only allowed to call 911 and wait while they're being gunned down by a vicious murderer?

Good luck with the Anders Behring Breiviks of the world. They have all the time to prepare, train and scout the area before they hit.

At the Columbine High School, two campus officers where there, but they were outgunned and had to seek cover.

Waiting for a SWAT team is the best you can do in these cases. Training and arming people to be on par with a Mr. Breivik is prohibitively expensive. We already see in civil aviation how much that post-9/11 security is costing the passengers and the taxpayers, and I'm sorry to say that Al-Qaida has won that economical war.

The shooting of Charles Whitman in 1966 has demonstrated the need for SWAT teams. Although civilians proficient with guns helped greatly with limiting the damage he has done, we better do not count on good luck.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1263 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 982 times:

Whatever, I bet in the end in such a situation this kind of training has 0 effect to the outcome.

Also those messed up people who do things like this will always find a way. What about explosives? Guns are totally useless if somebody creates a home made bomb (which I believe aren't that hard to create from pretty easily available chemical stuff) and explodes it in a school class for example. No time to react and probably very effective too.

Nah, United States should really start fixing its mental health services and other social problems to make these horrible events happen less.

"I wish we could all live in a world where everyone was good but that world does not exist"

I bet with proper social policies amount of "bad" people in the US would reduce very much.

[Edited 2013-02-11 02:46:43]


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2411 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 974 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 13):
What about explosives?

SWAT teams would expect explosives, while the average firearm aficionado and schoolyard cop does not.

Bombing a school would be a slaughter (e.g. Bath School Disaster, 1927) and nobody can protect the kids in such a case, but you can still save the lives of the first responders.


Of course, every sane policy is based on what one can reasonably do, and there is:
a) improving SWAT police units, or creating smaller SWAT units so they can be more flexible and based in smaller towns
b) improving mental health (both prevention and treatment)
c) a ban on firearms which purpose is killing as many people as possible (e.g. Tec-9 guns with large magazines)
d) a change in the mindset. Somehow, Canadians manage to shoot up much less people in malls, schools and universities.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinedl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 944 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Who wants to live in such a world were people are only allowed to call 911 and wait while they're being gunned down by a vicious murderer?
Honestly I wish we could all live in a world where everyone was good but that world does not exist. I prefer to living in a society were I am allowed to defend myself.

Seconded.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 14):
a change in the mindset. Somehow, Canadians manage to shoot up much less people in malls, schools and universities.

So, you're saying things don't happen there? Or that the mindset is different because of some identifiable trait or feature?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 937 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
Then go live there !


I already do.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
Man, you really need to see more of the world. It exists !


I guess so. I've only been to 42 countries...

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
Emergency services work well in plenty of other civilized countries


They don't seem to be working so well with home invasions, rape, stabbings, muggings and other similar crimes that happen in other "civilized" countries.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
Cheap shot, and at others expense... pretty sick really !


Calm down. What has you so upset?

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 12):
Good luck with the Anders Behring Breiviks of the world. They have all the time to prepare, train and scout the area before they hit.


...and all attacked 'gun free zones'.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 926 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 13):
Whatever, I bet in the end in such a situation this kind of training has 0 effect to the outcome.

Also those messed up people who do things like this will always find a way.

No one is talking about ending this violence this way, it is about reducing deaths. I don't know what the training involves, but I'm sure it has some tips on how to hide/secure yourself if a shooter does show up... there is a few lives saved right there.

I doubt it will have 0 effect and no one is claiming the effect will be 0 deaths



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2411 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 907 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
...and all attacked 'gun free zones'.

Which does not matter. The average firearm owner can't do anything against a trained shooter like Charles Whitman or Anders Breivik. If nobody has a gun ready if a shooter begins shooting, surviving is 80 or 90% luck. If some people have concealed guns, surviving is still not guaranteed by a large margin.


I just recommend a good read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912


Excerpt:

Prof Killias cannot hide his anger with those in America who use Switzerland to illustrate their argument that more gun ownership would deter or stop violence.

"We don't have a gun culture!" he snaps, waving his hand dismissively.

[...]

"We have guns at home, but they are kept for peaceful purposes. There is no point taking the gun out of your home in Switzerland because it is illegal to carry a gun in the street. To shoot someone who just looks at you in a funny way - this is not Swiss culture!"

David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 893 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
I already do.

Then begging your pardon, I understood you live/reside in Thailand with some very attractive women.   

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
I guess so. I've only been to 42 countries...

Then Im surprised you say what you say

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
They don't seem to be working so well with home invasions, rape, stabbings, muggings and other similar crimes that happen in other "civilized" countries.

Nothing and nowhere in life is perfect, you can be stung by a bee out in the garden and die. Generally speaking though, other society's manage very well without massive gun ownership, compared to what happens in the States, wouldn't you agree ?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
...and all attacked 'gun free zones'.

Not sure if this latest shooting was in a "gun free zone" or not ?
But 3 more dead in court house killing, and 2 officers wounded.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/three-de...house-shooting-20130212-2e9ci.html

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
this is not Swiss culture

Quite right, its not thank God.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 863 times:

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):


I have a better read, an actual study from Harvard.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...pp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf


User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 842 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 4):
Does that really surprise you ? You're going to find people "on line" that think EVERYTHING is a bad idea.

This. No matter what, people online will disagree with things. Always. It's more or less a rule of the internet.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 820 times:

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
The average firearm owner can't do anything against a trained shooter like Charles Whitman or Anders Breivik.


That is why it's best to learn how to shoot and defend yourself. That is what Steven Seagal is doing. Training people.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
surviving is 80 or 90% luck.


That is without a gun.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 19):
Then begging your pardon, I understood you live/reside in Thailand with some very attractive women.


Yes I do but I will always be an American. By the way, guns are very easy to buy here in Thailand. I know several places here in Bangkok that sell them and they are sold on the open market. The only requirement is ca$h.
No background check, no fingerprints, no waiting period, just cold hard ca$h is all that is required. Many locals that I know own guns & rifles. Heck I even saw a gun advertisement in a in-flight magazine on Nok Air.
Everyone I know living up country out in the woods and the jungles own guns - both locals and expats.
Now if you really want to 'off' somebody, you can just pay a poor guy 10,000 baht ($300 USD) to 'off' someone for you. (Yep, that is the starting price for someone's head)
No gun needed at all on your part.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 19):
Then Im surprised you say what you say



You shouldn't be. I go beyond the tourist areas of places I visit and I don't waste my time hanging around left-wing Eurosnobs & backpackers that love to bitch about America when I travel abroad.
I've even been to the Middle-East where they cling to guns & religion more than the Tea Party people in the United States...

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 19):
Nothing and nowhere in life is perfect,


Glad you're coming around and realizing that.  
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 19):
Generally speaking though, other society's manage very well without massive gun ownership, compared to what happens in the States, wouldn't you agree ?


No I do not agree and crime in your country has shot up once your law abiding citizens handed in their guns to your government.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 812 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
and crime in your country has shot up once your law abiding citizens handed in their guns to your government.

Sorry to disappoint you Superfly, but it has gone down, NOT up as you like to claim  http://world.time.com/2012/12/17/whe...essons-from-the-u-k-and-australia/

And

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...gun-control-laws/story?id=18007055

And

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...nd-changed-gun-laws-after-shooting



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 808 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
Sorry to disappoint you Superfly, but it has gone down, NOT up as you like to claim

Not a disappointment at all. Crime in your country has gone up since the gun ban.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847



Bring back the Concorde
25 Post contains images TheCommodore : We are talking of "gun" related crime, eg shootings, killings,But feel free to manipulate it which ever you want Living in a "peaceful" country as I
26 Superfly : Cute, but guns cut down on non-gun related crimes as well which includes rape, assault, robbery and even murder. Australia is a great country and all
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