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Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today  
User currently offlineEY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 268 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Not a good day for the cruise industry.

First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cr...cruise-ship-in-Canary-Islands.html

Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://maritimematters.com/2013/02/c...-triumph-engine-room-fire-quelled/

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Carnival Triumph

I can't seem to find it on the maritime tracker website....



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19708 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

That is very sad. RIP.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

The problem with shipboard electrical systems is that the distribution systems are adjacent or close proximity to the all the mechanical gear located in the equipment room.
It does not take much of a fire in an enclosed area to produce enough heat to melt the insulation on the wiring providing a short circuits or damaging the distribution gear as well as the control wiring, gaskets on the engine, fuel lines etc for the engine/alternator itself.

I would suspect that there is a separate Emergency alternator located elsewhere in the ship to provide Emergency Lighting and power for ships radios and navigation equipment. They still have deal with getting fuel from the ships tanks to a day tank but I suspect that was taken care of in the ships design.

Sorry Doc, no Air Conditioning.

Okie


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8276 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Saddened by the loss of life in the accident and hope the problem can be clearly identified to avoid it happening again. Like aircraft accidents there is a need to learn the causes and to take action to avoid another accident. RIP

As for the fire on the Triumph, the automatic systems apparently worked. I don't know if there was simply too much damage too fast to avoid needing a tug, or if there was simply problems getting systems back on line. Regardless, I really appreciate those automatic systems - went through a few fires when I was in the Navy and we really could have used them on two major fires we had.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

That's a good point; it was discussed on another thread that I was just reading through earlier today, and was in the process of doing some research online in order to create another thread about the topic. (which I still will)

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

I noticed this earlier in the day and wanted to read about it, but still haven't gotten around to it yet; without yet reading about what happened, I can only say this; lowering a life boat is a VERY routine, often practiced task, on ALL big vessels , whether it's a cruise ship, or whether it's a Naval vessel; the reason so many things like this keep happening is because so many people keep THINKING of them as being "accidents", and that "accidents" will always "happen"; this has been proven over many years NOT to be the case; they are NOT "accidents" at all; about 99% are "routine acts of carelessness, almost all of which didn't "just happen", they were CAUSED.......by carelessness and stupidity. (and almost ALL could have been PREVENTED had those responsible been better trained, more careful, and more responsible.

I would venture to guess that the inevitable investigation which will "look into" this tragic occurrence will most likely conclude that "it COULD have been prevented, had all involved been better trained, better prepared, and had better leadership. We'll see.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Well, after making a reply, I noticed the title of the thread.......both "accidents" ! Se what I mean ?

As long as "incidents" where people become fatalities keep being regarded as "accidents" ( which "just happen"), they are guaranteed to "keep right on happening";

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2352 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2773 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

There ought to be some emergency power to run some critical lighting and stuff.

But you have to remember that the hotel load on modern cruise ships exceeds the propulsion load. That's one reason many modern cruise ships have gone to electric azipods for propulsion - it's just one more load on the big electrical plant. And even then, they should be able get steerage out of the azipods on the emergency generators.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19708 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 7):
But you have to remember that the hotel load on modern cruise ships exceeds the propulsion load. That's one reason many modern cruise ships have gone to electric azipods for propulsion - it's just one more load on the big electrical plant. And even then, they should be able get steerage out of the azipods on the emergency generators.

It's about 50/50. The electric azipods are used both for mechanical simplicity and also because it does make overall energy management simpler to run all loads from a single, engine-driven electric bus.


User currently offlinebananaboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1580 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Thompson Majestic

It's called the Thomson Majesty.

There's an article online with a photo showing a cable that has snapped. Could actions by the crew cause the cable to snap or would that generally only happen due to a failure of the material itself?

http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/94671/

Mark



All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26992 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Louis Lines .... say no more !

It was a decent ship in its day when it was with NCL.


User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

If the fires are as common as some here say they are, why do they not use a better wire that the insulation has a higher melting point which might potentially prevent the power from going out in these situations?

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Carnival and it's subsidiary Costa sure have had there share of accident's and fires over the year's.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 11):
If the fires are as common as some here say they are, why do they not use a better wire that the insulation has a higher melting point which might potentially prevent the power from going out in these situations?

Average temperature of burning paper/wood not counting an oil based compound as in fuel oil is quite high

900C or 1173K or 1650F depending on what scale you prefer.

Not much out there that would be feasible in application. Even the steel in the conduit would lose most of its strength and start to sag around 1000F not counting the copper conductor.

Just too far of a stretch for conventional materials.

Okie


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

I was watching the news this morning, and they're saying that the Triumph has drifted so far, it's now going to be towed to Mobile, AL.

Doesn't look like things are going well onboard: Foul conditions aboard stranded Carnival cruise ship Triumph: Passengers describe 'sewage running down the walls' and people acting like 'savages'



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I was watching the news this morning, and they're saying that the Triumph has drifted so far, it's now going to be towed to Mobile, AL.

Carnival never really handles these situations well. You would think that they would have plans in place for just this kind of event.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 15):
Carnival never really handles these situations well.

The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2368 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.




Best analogy EVER! What is sad is, that after this cruise Alabama is going to look nice.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26992 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 17):
Best analogy EVER! What is sad is, that after this cruise Alabama is going to look nice.

Is Alabama that bad ?  


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3023 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2344 times:
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Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Is Alabama that bad ?  

Don't know about most of the state, but Mobile would fit the description...
  



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

"A Three Hour Tour" 
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 15):
Carnival never really handles these situations well. You would think that they would have plans in place for just this kind of event.

Well we are talking a cruise ship not AF 1 with a standby aircraft at hand at all times.

You are correct that it seems the cruise lines do not have at least some contingency plans to respond within 48 hours for a non-emergency. If they do, the plans do not seem apparent.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.

I would guess Mobile is the only port in close proximity that would have large enough tugs to tow a cruise ship that are not already being utilized by the off shore oil industry.

I suspect if it were an emergency situation where loss of life was emanate then there would be a lot of vessels come to the assistance of the passengers.

Okie


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2318 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 19):
Don't know about most of the state, but Mobile would fit the description...

Mobile has a shipyard, a port, cruise terminal and the facilities and abilities to handle this, not to mention clearing them through customs.

It's a FAR better option than Progreso, which is an utter shithole.

Then Carnival STILL has to arrange for the logistics of getting 3100+ people to Galveston on top of that, with their bags and gear. This is a horrible scenario.

I'd never go on Carnival again--did it once, not my thing, but they have more than their share of events. It's one thing being stuck on a taxiway in weather on an aircraft, knowing it'll abate in a few hours, it's quite another to be stranded at sea and have a MUCH longer wait time to endure.


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3023 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2312 times:
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Quoting slider (Reply 21):
I'd never go on Carnival again--did it once, not my thing, but they have more than their share of events. It's one thing being stuck on a taxiway in weather on an aircraft, knowing it'll abate in a few hours, it's quite another to be stranded at sea and have a MUCH longer wait time to endure.

That's not just Carnival, that's any ship at sea. Yes Carnival has had it's issues but remember it's also on of the largest cruise line by far (30+ ships in service). I'm going on Carnival out of San Juan in May on the Valor... Not worried about it at all!



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 20):
You are correct that it seems the cruise lines do not have at least some contingency plans to respond within 48 hours for a non-emergency. If they do, the plans do not seem apparent.

Carnival has diverted two other cruise ships to provide hot food and supplies for the damaged ship. Unfortunately the ability to move supplies over to the ship is realtively small, and subject to high risk sea surface transfers.

There are also at least one US Coast Guard ship standing by to assist if possible.

As for the delay in getting the ship under tow. Those type tugs aren't sitting around in huge numbers. And getting them to the stricken ship takes time. The tugs are not built for speed.

The reality is that ANY cruise ship becomes a pesthole if the ship loses power. Depending upon the location of the ship when it happens - it can be a long time to get the ship and passengers safely to shore.

I'd really hate to be on ANY cruise ship in the North Atlantic or trans-Pacific if this happened. The Queen Mary 2 wouldn't be much better.

The passengers are lucky that they are in a relatively calm Gulf of Mexico, hoping a storm front doesn't come through.

Quoting slider (Reply 21):
Then Carnival STILL has to arrange for the logistics of getting 3100+ people to Galveston on top of that, with their bags and gear. This is a horrible scenario.

I'm suspecting MOB is going to see it's biggest ever collection of wide-bodies moving the passengers to the Houston area.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8276 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

It might be time for raising engineering standards on these ships. You really don't need fresh water for use in toilets - a fast filter to clear out debris (and small fish  Wow! ) would work when normal systems are out.

Same with some basic electrical systems.

The problem is that some of these basic backup systems need to be engineered into the ship before final plans are approved. IMO these core bask-up systems are just as important as the automatic fire fighting systems.


25 starbuk7 : The U.S. Navy uses salt water in their toilets. This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft an
26 Ken777 : Actually there are a lot of cruises that can be very enjoyable for those of us who used to polish brass, stand watches and then do a normal day's wor
27 rfields5421 : As I was standing in line to board for my first Alaska cruise - the standard question was "What other cruises have your done?" To which my last answe
28 MD11Engineer : I don´t know, I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship (I´m not really a fan of shopping mall
29 OA260 : Well it certainly is a different experience but if you dont want to then thats a personal choice. On my last cruise I met a ex Navy guy who just love
30 starbuk7 : Yep, spent 3 and a half years on the USS Midway (with one sting of 111 straight sea days before a port), then another Indian Ocean cruise on the Midw
31 Ken777 : I think it depends on the cruise stops. Trans-Atlantic leaves me cold, but the Med has a great list of ships that can be reached via overnight sailin
32 thunderboltdrgn : Like Ken777 said, it depends on what type of cruise you do and where. If you do a Mediterranean or Baltic sea cruise, you spend most of the days bein
33 Post contains links Revelation : Stinking Carnival cruise ship being towed to Alabama says: Not exactly what's in the glossy brochures, eh?
34 Ken777 : My first two WestPac cruises were spent going in a small circle for a month or so - our position was called PIRAZ - and then a period of time either
35 AeroWesty : That sounds like what a friend of mine's dad did in the Coast Guard sometime in the 50s/60s. IIRC, there was a chain of ships, for lack of a better d
36 BRJ : Anyone know if Carnival uses a specific carrier for their charter services? Read an article on CNN that they are chartering 20 flights to fly people t
37 Post contains links slider : No clue, although an uneducated guess might be that MOB has a shipyard they can use vs NOLA. Might be a capacity issue, who knows. The situation keep
38 rfields5421 : New Orleans would be a horrible place to tow a ship that large. It is 95 miles of towing the ship uphill against the 1 to 1.5 mph current in a very c
39 luv2fly : Probably a couple of Miami Air 737's doing back to back flights, 4 planes 5 flights each. Think about it, once they get off the plane on to the bus t
40 AeroWesty : The seats will need a good scrubbing down after all that. Seeing as how those poor folks have gone days without a shower. Ugh.
41 OA260 : Wise choice even when things go to plan I always like to have a balcony often leaving it slightly open at night to have fresh air and hear the waves
42 Ken777 : PIRAZ was basically positive identification of flights over North Vietnam, especially on their return to the carriers. One major objective was to ens
43 NorthStarDC4M : I'm totally hooked on Balcony now... I can just lounge out there and listen to the ocean going by... sooo relaxing.
44 okie : Carnivals ships are flying the flags of Malta, Portugal, Liberia, Panama, and the Bahamas. Good luck with those new US federal laws and regulations.
45 rfields5421 : Yes, standards need to be raised, however, I can't see any way to force a retor-fit among existing ships. In some cases, it won't be physically possi
46 okie : I believe as long as we honor the flagged country's laws and they ours they are allowed passengers and freight. I am not even sure if there is even a
47 OA260 : Yes its wonderful to do and you can have breakfast delivered there too and its very private and enjoyable if you dont want to get up and go to the re
48 ZANL188 : How does a single event, the fire, take out all propulsion? Why not have a split plant. Have a fire? No worries - proceed to safe port at half speed.
49 rfields5421 : Like a locomotive engine - modern cruise ships really only have the engines running one big a$$ generator to supply electrical power. They are not bu
50 DocLightning : Well, there are usually multiple generators, one per engine, but they drive a single electric bus. I don't see why you couldn't have two separate eng
51 Revelation : Indeed not. They could stand to learn a thing or two from construction of naval vessels. I imagine they will, if it ends up impacting the bottom line
52 Post contains links thunderboltdrgn : live video stream: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/livenow?id=8993121
53 Ken777 : I cud care less what flag they are flying. If they want to take on customers in the US then there is no reason why we cannot set standards that have
54 ZANL188 : I would be shocked if this were true, the Titanic had a split plant.... My assumption is that ship has a split plant and that some procedural error o
55 okie : The description on Fox News was that it had 5 engine/alternators, 4 in use with one as stand by. No reference to KW rating or if they are gas turbine
56 Post contains links rfields5421 : According to the Wikipedia article the ship's power plant is The wiki article also has some interesting details about support provided by two other Ca
57 BRJ : So the passengers will be bused/housed in hotels/flown back to Houston. What about the crew? I know most of the crew are foreign nationals who are usu
58 Post contains links rfields5421 : While the ship most likely has two engine rooms - as we found from the Costa Concordia - the engine rooms are not isolated from each other during ope
59 rfields5421 : In order to work the ships, the crew members have to have a US visa. Customs and immigration flew out to the ship Wednesday and processed everyone fo
60 BRJ : I figured they must have US visas, but wasn't positive. I cannot imagine how you begin to clean up the ship at this point, especially with the report
61 Post contains links rfields5421 : While doing research I found this. http://www.gl-group.com/en/15494.php The 2009 SOLAS regulations required ships constructed after 1 July 2010 to hav
62 Post contains images Revelation : They should follow the aviation industry and call it ETOPS: Engines Turn or Passengers Stink!
63 Pellegrine : Disgusting!!!
64 Post contains links itsjustme : Some of these passengers can't catch a break. One of the buses chartered by Carnival broke down while transporting Triumph passengers from Mobile to
65 Post contains links and images L0VE2FLY : Come on guys, it's not that bad...at least they were not devoured by hungry beasts! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7axonV2UA
66 Post contains images OA260 : You would really think you were cursed ! Ironic thing was in the UK and Ireland when all this was going on there were Carnival adverts running in bet
67 Revelation : Did the bus toilet overflow too?
68 Revelation : The bathrooms at work haven't been cleaned very well in a while. A co-worker said it was management's plan to make us think that we're on a Carnival c
69 Pellegrine : Thanks for making me laugh!
70 Post contains links and images L0VE2FLY : Again, let's look at the bright side, here's some pros to being on the Carnival Cruise ship ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59CdgRozXLk
71 garpd : I've watched one or two documentaries about building cruise ships, every single one of the ships in focus had backup generator. Most were in the form
72 okie : They all have emergency power of some sort from an alternate area of the boat. The problem is that emergency power generation is for minimum lighting
73 rfields5421 : They did restore sanitary water to half the ship before reaching port. The extra generators flown to the ship by the US Coast Guard after the ship got
74 garpd : All we need now is some a weeping woman to blub "I thought we were going to die" at a camera and the story of this unfortunate incident will be comple
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