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Two Accidents To Cruise Ships Today  
User currently offlineEY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 262 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

Not a good day for the cruise industry.

First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cr...cruise-ship-in-Canary-Islands.html

Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://maritimematters.com/2013/02/c...-triumph-engine-room-fire-quelled/

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Carnival Triumph

I can't seem to find it on the maritime tracker website....



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

That is very sad. RIP.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

The problem with shipboard electrical systems is that the distribution systems are adjacent or close proximity to the all the mechanical gear located in the equipment room.
It does not take much of a fire in an enclosed area to produce enough heat to melt the insulation on the wiring providing a short circuits or damaging the distribution gear as well as the control wiring, gaskets on the engine, fuel lines etc for the engine/alternator itself.

I would suspect that there is a separate Emergency alternator located elsewhere in the ship to provide Emergency Lighting and power for ships radios and navigation equipment. They still have deal with getting fuel from the ships tanks to a day tank but I suspect that was taken care of in the ships design.

Sorry Doc, no Air Conditioning.

Okie


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

Saddened by the loss of life in the accident and hope the problem can be clearly identified to avoid it happening again. Like aircraft accidents there is a need to learn the causes and to take action to avoid another accident. RIP

As for the fire on the Triumph, the automatic systems apparently worked. I don't know if there was simply too much damage too fast to avoid needing a tug, or if there was simply problems getting systems back on line. Regardless, I really appreciate those automatic systems - went through a few fires when I was in the Navy and we really could have used them on two major fires we had.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

That's a good point; it was discussed on another thread that I was just reading through earlier today, and was in the process of doing some research online in order to create another thread about the topic. (which I still will)

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
First, a lifeboat fell from Thompson Majestic during a safety drill in the Canary Islands. Five crew members are dead and three injured.

I noticed this earlier in the day and wanted to read about it, but still haven't gotten around to it yet; without yet reading about what happened, I can only say this; lowering a life boat is a VERY routine, often practiced task, on ALL big vessels , whether it's a cruise ship, or whether it's a Naval vessel; the reason so many things like this keep happening is because so many people keep THINKING of them as being "accidents", and that "accidents" will always "happen"; this has been proven over many years NOT to be the case; they are NOT "accidents" at all; about 99% are "routine acts of carelessness, almost all of which didn't "just happen", they were CAUSED.......by carelessness and stupidity. (and almost ALL could have been PREVENTED had those responsible been better trained, more careful, and more responsible.

I would venture to guess that the inevitable investigation which will "look into" this tragic occurrence will most likely conclude that "it COULD have been prevented, had all involved been better trained, better prepared, and had better leadership. We'll see.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Well, after making a reply, I noticed the title of the thread.......both "accidents" ! Se what I mean ?

As long as "incidents" where people become fatalities keep being regarded as "accidents" ( which "just happen"), they are guaranteed to "keep right on happening";

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2238 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2635 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
This seems to happen relatively often. It always surprises me that they don't have a backup turbine generator to supply hotel load at least.

There ought to be some emergency power to run some critical lighting and stuff.

But you have to remember that the hotel load on modern cruise ships exceeds the propulsion load. That's one reason many modern cruise ships have gone to electric azipods for propulsion - it's just one more load on the big electrical plant. And even then, they should be able get steerage out of the azipods on the emergency generators.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 7):
But you have to remember that the hotel load on modern cruise ships exceeds the propulsion load. That's one reason many modern cruise ships have gone to electric azipods for propulsion - it's just one more load on the big electrical plant. And even then, they should be able get steerage out of the azipods on the emergency generators.

It's about 50/50. The electric azipods are used both for mechanical simplicity and also because it does make overall energy management simpler to run all loads from a single, engine-driven electric bus.


User currently offlinebananaboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1570 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Thompson Majestic

It's called the Thomson Majesty.

There's an article online with a photo showing a cable that has snapped. Could actions by the crew cause the cable to snap or would that generally only happen due to a failure of the material itself?

http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/ACCIDENTS/94671/

Mark



All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2499 times:

Louis Lines .... say no more !

It was a decent ship in its day when it was with NCL.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

If the fires are as common as some here say they are, why do they not use a better wire that the insulation has a higher melting point which might potentially prevent the power from going out in these situations?

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2690 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

Carnival and it's subsidiary Costa sure have had there share of accident's and fires over the year's.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 11):
If the fires are as common as some here say they are, why do they not use a better wire that the insulation has a higher melting point which might potentially prevent the power from going out in these situations?

Average temperature of burning paper/wood not counting an oil based compound as in fuel oil is quite high

900C or 1173K or 1650F depending on what scale you prefer.

Not much out there that would be feasible in application. Even the steel in the conduit would lose most of its strength and start to sag around 1000F not counting the copper conductor.

Just too far of a stretch for conventional materials.

Okie


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting EY460 (Thread starter):
Second, a fire broke out in the engine room of the Carnival Triumph. There are no injuries and the fire is out but the ship is disabled and adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

I was watching the news this morning, and they're saying that the Triumph has drifted so far, it's now going to be towed to Mobile, AL.

Doesn't look like things are going well onboard: Foul conditions aboard stranded Carnival cruise ship Triumph: Passengers describe 'sewage running down the walls' and people acting like 'savages'



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I was watching the news this morning, and they're saying that the Triumph has drifted so far, it's now going to be towed to Mobile, AL.

Carnival never really handles these situations well. You would think that they would have plans in place for just this kind of event.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 15):
Carnival never really handles these situations well.

The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.




Best analogy EVER! What is sad is, that after this cruise Alabama is going to look nice.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 17):
Best analogy EVER! What is sad is, that after this cruise Alabama is going to look nice.

Is Alabama that bad ?  



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2951 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2206 times:
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Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Is Alabama that bad ?  

Don't know about most of the state, but Mobile would fit the description...
  



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

"A Three Hour Tour" 
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 15):
Carnival never really handles these situations well. You would think that they would have plans in place for just this kind of event.

Well we are talking a cruise ship not AF 1 with a standby aircraft at hand at all times.

You are correct that it seems the cruise lines do not have at least some contingency plans to respond within 48 hours for a non-emergency. If they do, the plans do not seem apparent.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
The irony of it all ... after all of the grief the passengers are enduring, only to have their final destination be Alabama! You can't make this stuff up.

I would guess Mobile is the only port in close proximity that would have large enough tugs to tow a cruise ship that are not already being utilized by the off shore oil industry.

I suspect if it were an emergency situation where loss of life was emanate then there would be a lot of vessels come to the assistance of the passengers.

Okie


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6661 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 19):
Don't know about most of the state, but Mobile would fit the description...

Mobile has a shipyard, a port, cruise terminal and the facilities and abilities to handle this, not to mention clearing them through customs.

It's a FAR better option than Progreso, which is an utter shithole.

Then Carnival STILL has to arrange for the logistics of getting 3100+ people to Galveston on top of that, with their bags and gear. This is a horrible scenario.

I'd never go on Carnival again--did it once, not my thing, but they have more than their share of events. It's one thing being stuck on a taxiway in weather on an aircraft, knowing it'll abate in a few hours, it's quite another to be stranded at sea and have a MUCH longer wait time to endure.


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2951 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2174 times:
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Quoting slider (Reply 21):
I'd never go on Carnival again--did it once, not my thing, but they have more than their share of events. It's one thing being stuck on a taxiway in weather on an aircraft, knowing it'll abate in a few hours, it's quite another to be stranded at sea and have a MUCH longer wait time to endure.

That's not just Carnival, that's any ship at sea. Yes Carnival has had it's issues but remember it's also on of the largest cruise line by far (30+ ships in service). I'm going on Carnival out of San Juan in May on the Valor... Not worried about it at all!



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 20):
You are correct that it seems the cruise lines do not have at least some contingency plans to respond within 48 hours for a non-emergency. If they do, the plans do not seem apparent.

Carnival has diverted two other cruise ships to provide hot food and supplies for the damaged ship. Unfortunately the ability to move supplies over to the ship is realtively small, and subject to high risk sea surface transfers.

There are also at least one US Coast Guard ship standing by to assist if possible.

As for the delay in getting the ship under tow. Those type tugs aren't sitting around in huge numbers. And getting them to the stricken ship takes time. The tugs are not built for speed.

The reality is that ANY cruise ship becomes a pesthole if the ship loses power. Depending upon the location of the ship when it happens - it can be a long time to get the ship and passengers safely to shore.

I'd really hate to be on ANY cruise ship in the North Atlantic or trans-Pacific if this happened. The Queen Mary 2 wouldn't be much better.

The passengers are lucky that they are in a relatively calm Gulf of Mexico, hoping a storm front doesn't come through.

Quoting slider (Reply 21):
Then Carnival STILL has to arrange for the logistics of getting 3100+ people to Galveston on top of that, with their bags and gear. This is a horrible scenario.

I'm suspecting MOB is going to see it's biggest ever collection of wide-bodies moving the passengers to the Houston area.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

It might be time for raising engineering standards on these ships. You really don't need fresh water for use in toilets - a fast filter to clear out debris (and small fish  Wow! ) would work when normal systems are out.

Same with some basic electrical systems.

The problem is that some of these basic backup systems need to be engineered into the ship before final plans are approved. IMO these core bask-up systems are just as important as the automatic fire fighting systems.


User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

The U.S. Navy uses salt water in their toilets.

This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 24):
there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

Actually there are a lot of cruises that can be very enjoyable for those of us who used to polish brass, stand watches and then do a normal day's work. The key for us was the ports we would be going to. On our first cruise we left Rome, stopped in Genoa, Cannes, Ajaccio, Barcelona and back to Rome. Perfect for a floating hotel - get up, enjoy breakfast, spend the day in a new (and interesting) place, then back to the hotel to eat and sleep. Beats the hell out of bus tours where you have to lug luggage (unpack & pack) around every day.

I could care less about trans-Atlantic trips - done that sort of thing doing trans-Pacific. But a Med cruise is actually pretty neat.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 25):
This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

As I was standing in line to board for my first Alaska cruise - the standard question was "What other cruises have your done?"

To which my last answer was "I hope this experience is better than the USS Midway in the winter North Pacific."

I was very surprised at how enjoyable the cruise was.

As Ken said - wake up - good breakfast, visit a new and interesting place, come back to my fine hotel for a nice dinner and very interesting enertainment at night.

But you are right - if something happens - I would not want to be on that ship.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13805 posts, RR: 63
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 25):
This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

I don´t know, I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship (I´m not really a fan of shopping malls and and you can only eat so much in a restaurant).
I also like to time my trips according to my own wishes, e.g. I like a place I´ll stay there for a few days, but other places, which I don´t like I´ll be out fast.

As to the life boat accident, steel cables don´t snap by themselves. I´m quite sure that a closer inspection will reveal corrosion inside the cable, which points to sloppy maintenance.

Jan

[Edited 2013-02-12 13:35:35]

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 25):
This is why I will never go on a cruise, did several of them on big Grey Boats that launch aircraft and going back out on another one is not for me.

I know everyone says that it is not the same, there is so much more to do and you are not working and etc etc, but look where they are now, stuck in the middle of the ocean. No Thanks

Well it certainly is a different experience but if you dont want to then thats a personal choice. On my last cruise I met a ex Navy guy who just loved the cruise ships so I guess its a matter of horses for courses etc... Was great to hear his stories though. He was a wealth of knowledge about technical information etc...

A cruise can be as lazy or busy as you want it to be. My last one had a port intensive itinerary and I actually would have loved some sea days to chill out. I think a 9 night with 3 sea days spread out in between is a perfect combination. Im not into these party ships personally but I love attending seminars where interesting people talk about their life and expeditions and also about the ports of call.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
I hope this experience is better than the USS Midway in the winter North Pacific


Yep, spent 3 and a half years on the USS Midway (with one sting of 111 straight sea days before a port), then another Indian Ocean cruise on the Midway, two more west pacs on the Nimitz, and some short workup stuff on the Stennis, Constellation and Lincoln.

I suppose a cruise could be fun if there were a lot of ports and not much sea time, but when you are at sea, you are at sea and there is nowhere else to go if you get bored with the ship.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship

I think it depends on the cruise stops. Trans-Atlantic leaves me cold, but the Med has a great list of ships that can be reached via overnight sailing.

And, let's face it, for a Yank in Oklahoma European river cruises & Med cruises offers an extraordinary range of places to visit briefly on a "quick look" basis, with the ability to add them to a bucket list of places to go.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
I also like to time my trips according to my own wishes, e.g. I like a place I´ll stay there for a few days, but other places, which I don´t like I´ll be out fast

Don't blame you, but then you're pretty close to a wide range of cultures and places that are within driving range. Compare that to Oklahoma.


User currently offlinethunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):

I don´t know, I think a cruise would be quite boring for me without really having anything to do on the ship (I´m not really a fan of shopping malls and and you can only eat so much in a restaurant).

Like Ken777 said, it depends on what type of cruise you do and where.

If you do a Mediterranean or Baltic sea cruise, you spend most of the days
being busy exploring the cities and don't spend especially much time on the ship.

Sure Its not the same or as extensive as travelling by yourself but you can on the other
hand see it as appetizers of some interesting cities that you would like to visit.



Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Stinking Carnival cruise ship being towed to Alabama says:

Quote:

Brent Nutt of Texas told the CNN network that his wife Bethany, a passenger on the ship, described in a telephone call on Monday "horrific" conditions and fighting over scarce food.

"The odor is so bad that it's making them sick," Nutt said. "They're vomiting and stuff all over the boat just from the odor ... There's feces all over the floor."

Not exactly what's in the glossy brochures, eh?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 30):
I suppose a cruise could be fun if there were a lot of ports and not much sea time, but when you are at sea, you are at sea and there is nowhere else to go if you get bored with the ship.

My first two WestPac cruises were spent going in a small circle for a month or so - our position was called PIRAZ - and then a period of time either on an R&R visit (limited as we were a nuclear powered) or in Subic for maintenance. With Australia and Hong Kong as the main R&R ports I really can't complain about that small circle.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 34):
My first two WestPac cruises were spent going in a small circle for a month or so - our position was called PIRAZ

That sounds like what a friend of mine's dad did in the Coast Guard sometime in the 50s/60s. IIRC, there was a chain of ships, for lack of a better description, which simply made a course for a predetermined square or circle, which aircraft flying the Pacific would use as points of navigation using a unique signal each ship was broadcasting 24/7. Was that similar to what you did with PIRAZ?

(I'm sure I've got the descriptions of ships and navigation and signals all wrong.)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBRJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Anyone know if Carnival uses a specific carrier for their charter services? Read an article on CNN that they are chartering 20 flights to fly people to Houston from Mobile.

Article says that they've reserved hotel rooms in both Houston and New Orleans. Speaking of, wonder why they didn't tow into New Orleans, bigger cruise terminal. It's gonna be rough processing 3,100 passengers in Mobile, I've cruised out of there.

Friend's relatives are on this cruise. Cannot imagine not having A/C let alone water and toilets. At least balcony rooms can open the door for fresh air. Makes think to book a balcony on all future cruises.


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6661 posts, RR: 35
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):
Speaking of, wonder why they didn't tow into New Orleans, bigger cruise terminal.

No clue, although an uneducated guess might be that MOB has a shipyard they can use vs NOLA. Might be a capacity issue, who knows.




The situation keeps getting worse for Carnival.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...nal-cruises-on-Triumph-4275429.php

They're canceling TWELVE more cruises on this ship from Galveston---this pretty much decimates the entire spring break run in Texas. For HISD, that's 11-15 March.

UGLY.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 37):
Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):Speaking of, wonder why they didn't tow into New Orleans, bigger cruise terminal.
No clue, although an uneducated guess might be that MOB has a shipyard they can use vs NOLA. Might be a capacity issue, who knows.

New Orleans would be a horrible place to tow a ship that large. It is 95 miles of towing the ship uphill against the 1 to 1.5 mph current in a very crowded waterway with no possible room for mistakes.


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):
Anyone know if Carnival uses a specific carrier for their charter services? Read an article on CNN that they are chartering 20 flights to fly people to Houston from Mobile.



Probably a couple of Miami Air 737's doing back to back flights, 4 planes 5 flights each. Think about it, once they get off the plane on to the bus to the airport and on the plane, fly to HOU, fly back and repeat.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 39):
Probably a couple of Miami Air 737's doing back to back flights, 4 planes 5 flights each.

The seats will need a good scrubbing down after all that. Seeing as how those poor folks have gone days without a shower. Ugh.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting BRJ (Reply 36):
Makes think to book a balcony on all future cruises.

Wise choice even when things go to plan I always like to have a balcony often leaving it slightly open at night to have fresh air and hear the waves is quite nice. Also to air the room the next morning. Makes a huge difference.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 35):
Was that similar to what you did with PIRAZ?

PIRAZ was basically positive identification of flights over North Vietnam, especially on their return to the carriers. One major objective was to ensure a plane from the North didn't slip in at the rear of US flights heading home.

Ad far as Carnival goes, this FUBAR clearly points to the need for upgrading engineering of cruise ships. The first obvious need is for the toilet systems to be independent of the fresh water from the evaps. The potential for disease is too high to allow the casual attitude now held. Make it a requirement for all ships sailing in US waters - and hopefully get European countries to demand the same. This should be a no-brainer as it is cheaper to quickly filter salt water for use in the toilets than it is to use fuel to make drinking water.

The second FUBAR appears to be a lack of procedures for ensuring that passengers have food and water.

Standards need to be raised and they need federal laws and regulations to force those changes.

And maybe a few angry juries to help move needed safety upgrades to the top of the "To Do List".


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2951 posts, RR: 37
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1966 times:
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Quoting OA260 (Reply 41):
Wise choice even when things go to plan I always like to have a balcony often leaving it slightly open at night to have fresh air and hear the waves is quite nice. Also to air the room the next morning. Makes a huge difference.

I'm totally hooked on Balcony now... I can just lounge out there and listen to the ocean going by... sooo relaxing.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
Standards need to be raised and they need federal laws and regulations to force those changes

Carnivals ships are flying the flags of Malta, Portugal, Liberia, Panama, and the Bahamas.

Good luck with those new US federal laws and regulations.

Okie


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
Standards need to be raised

Yes, standards need to be raised, however, I can't see any way to force a retor-fit among existing ships. In some cases, it won't be physically possible.

Quoting okie (Reply 44):
Good luck with those new US federal laws and regulations.

Those laws will work just fine, when ships unable to meet those laws are prohibited from embarking or debarking passengers in US ports.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
Those laws will work just fine, when ships unable to meet those laws are prohibited from embarking or debarking passengers in US ports

I believe as long as we honor the flagged country's laws and they ours they are allowed passengers and freight. I am not even sure if there is even any cruise line operating under the US flag anymore.
Seems I remember some 20/20 hindsight show where the US authorities were pulling their hair out having to allow a foreign flag freight carrier dock at a US port that only met some very minimum requirements from the flagged country.
The best I can remember the US inspection noted that they did not even have a fire extinguisher on the entire ship nor were required to have one by the flagged country.

There is the Jones Act but that does not refer to passengers and freight.

Okie


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1858 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 43):
I'm totally hooked on Balcony now... I can just lounge out there and listen to the ocean going by... sooo relaxing.

Yes its wonderful to do and you can have breakfast delivered there too and its very private and enjoyable if you dont want to get up and go to the restaurant early.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1844 times:
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How does a single event, the fire, take out all propulsion?


Why not have a split plant. Have a fire? No worries - proceed to safe port at half speed.



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 48):
How does a single event, the fire, take out all propulsion?

Like a locomotive engine - modern cruise ships really only have the engines running one big a$$ generator to supply electrical power.

They are not built with redundancy in mind.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 48):
Why not have a split plant.

Costs and space, which costs money.

I was absolutely shocked to see my first cruise ship approaching the dock. Having been on many, and seen many US Navy ships dock - to see the ship pull up and stop about 50 feet from the dock and then maneuver directly sideways to the dock. Without any tugs!!!

965 feet long, 105 feet wide, 23 foot draft and close to 100 feet high of sail area.

Those pod drives are absolutely amazing.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 49):
Like a locomotive engine - modern cruise ships really only have the engines running one big a$$ generator to supply electrical power.

Well, there are usually multiple generators, one per engine, but they drive a single electric bus.

I don't see why you couldn't have two separate engine rooms in such a design, one fore and one aft for balance. The overall power capacity for the ship could be split between these two engine rooms. That way, a fire in one of the engine rooms will not incapacitate the entire ship.

Alternatively, a gas turbine engine could be installed to run a minimal hotel load. Basic lighting, climate control, plumbing, fresh water, and kitchen. No need to run casinos and night clubs and theaters, but enough for basic comfort.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 49):
They are not built with redundancy in mind.

Indeed not.

They could stand to learn a thing or two from construction of naval vessels.

I imagine they will, if it ends up impacting the bottom line.

People aren't going to want to spend their money on a trip on the gleaming white ship if it's becalmed on a tropical sea and its decks are awash in poo.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinethunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

live video stream: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/livenow?id=8993121


Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 44):
Carnivals ships are flying the flags of Malta, Portugal, Liberia, Panama, and the Bahamas.

Good luck with those new US federal laws and regulations.

I cud care less what flag they are flying. If they want to take on customers in the US then there is no reason why we cannot set standards that have to be met. Otherwise let them sail elsewhere.

Same with selling tickets for a cruise in the US. Ban sales of ships not meeting standards.

We can do it with commercial aircraft and these ships can hold 10 times the people as a jumbo.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
Yes, standards need to be raised, however, I can't see any way to force a retor-fit among existing ships. In some cases, it won't be physically possible.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 49):
Costs and space, which costs money.

And, with luck, a long line of juries will be motivating the cruise lines to beef up their standards and re-look at the cheapest designs available.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 50):
Alternatively, a gas turbine engine could be installed to run a minimal hotel load. Basic lighting, climate control, plumbing, fresh water, and kitchen. No need to run casinos and night clubs and theaters, but enough for basic comfort.

That is going to take a lot of pressure and my bet is that the cruise lines would prefer to pay lobbyists than enhance the systems. One major reason why trial lawyers and juries may be the pressure options needed.


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1703 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 49):
Like a locomotive engine - modern cruise ships really only have the engines running one big a$$ generator to supply electrical power.

They are not built with redundancy in mind.

I would be shocked if this were true, the Titanic had a split plant....

My assumption is that ship has a split plant and that some procedural error or perhaps circumstance prevented the other, un damaged, half of the plant from absorbing the propulsion load. No single event should leave a ship like this without power, the lawyers would go nuts...



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 54):
My assumption is that ship has a split plant and that some procedural error or perhaps circumstance prevented the other, un damaged, half of the plant from absorbing the propulsion load. No single event should leave a ship like this without power, the lawyers would go nuts...

The description on Fox News was that it had 5 engine/alternators, 4 in use with one as stand by. No reference to KW rating or if they are gas turbine or recip. However the comment was 80% of the output was for propulsion.

So there appears to be redundancy built in for mechanical issues of the engine/alternators and a fire extinguishing system for fire in the equipment area which previously has been mentioned successfully put out the fire.
Safety wise no one had to abandon ship or has been injured at this point but yes it sounds like things are a little rough on board.

I am still guessing the heat from the fire has damaged the other equipment.

Any one want to guess whether they tow the ship to the Bahamas for repairs or have the repairs done in Mobile.

Okie


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

According to the Wikipedia article the ship's power plant is

Quote:
2 × Wärtsilä-Sulzer 12ZAV40S
4 × Wärtsilä-Sulzer 16ZAV40S

The wiki article also has some interesting details about support provided by two other Carnival ships during this event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Triumph#2013_engine_room_fire

Found more about the engines

Quote:
Engines ZA40S series: cylinder diameter 400mm, stroke: 560mm, speed 500-600 RPM, fuel: HFO
Power output: 660 and 720 kW/cyl

This series has reduced fuel consumption and increased power output, compared to previous versions.
Produced in many variants for marine and stationary applications.

Types built in Poland:
6ZA40S, 8ZA40S
12ZAV40S, 16ZAV40S.
http://www.sulzer-z40.com/

This does not appear to be a manufacturer web site.

I found this on the Elation - an older Carnival ship than Triumph but probably indicative of the newer ship.

Quote:
The diesel-electric power plant on the Elation features six Wärtsilä 12V38 medium-speed diesel engines, with a total power output of 47,520kW (64,600hp). These are placed in two separate engine rooms. Each diesel drives an ABB 11,000kVA AC alternator, supplying electric power to a main electric high-voltage bus bar of 6.6kV 60Hz, three phase, from which the main propulsion motors and other large consumers are supplied. The power for the two 14MW synchronous electric AC motors located in the propeller pods of Azipods are controlled by cycloconverters supplied by ABB.


[Edited 2013-02-14 20:34:38]

User currently offlineBRJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

So the passengers will be bused/housed in hotels/flown back to Houston.

What about the crew? I know most of the crew are foreign nationals who are usually on a contract and basically live on the boat while on contract. Are they able to stay on American soil? Anyone know how that works?

Lots of pics being sent in to CNN from passengers on the cruise. I know that people tend to be dramatic during times like these, but some of the pics do indeed make it look like a refugee type of setting. Can't imagine.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 54):
My assumption is that ship has a split plant and that some procedural error or perhaps circumstance prevented the other, un damaged, half of the plant from absorbing the propulsion load.

While the ship most likely has two engine rooms - as we found from the Costa Concordia - the engine rooms are not isolated from each other during operation. On that ship they were unable to stop flooding in one engine room from spreading to the other engine rooms.

These ships have minimal crew in the engine rooms. I'm not even sure they actually have people in the engine rooms all the time. The engine control room does not have to be located next to the engines. It can be anywhere on the ship.

The fire suppression system is described as an automated system, which seals the compartments because it creates a non-survivable atmosphere for humans when activated.

The ships with those huge pod electrical engines really have no alternate propulsion options if they cannot keep the main generators/ alternators on-line.

The ship has four main engines/ generator/ alternator systems which are all apparently necessary for propulsion.

The two smaller engines/ generators/ alternator systems are apparently used for house power and support.

We've found that they were able to restore running water to the cabins and toilets on Monday for the forward part of the ship, They were able to provide some electrical power to wall outlets in certain areas - and the passengers main concern seemed to be getting their cell phones charged.

The USCG airlifted a stand alone generator to the ship which provided power for some systems.

Unfortunately the entire cooking system on these ships is electrical - and takes massive amounts of power.

About halfway down this page is a pretty good description of the modern cruise ship propulsion and power system

http://www.dieselduck.net/machine/02...lsion_layout/propulsion_layout.htm

However, his description does identify a single point of failure which is designed into these ships -

Quote:
all the engines are generators and they supply one common electrical bus.

If something damages that electrical bus - you get a barge, not a ship.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Quoting BRJ (Reply 57):
What about the crew? I know most of the crew are foreign nationals who are usually on a contract and basically live on the boat while on contract. Are they able to stay on American soil? Anyone know how that works?

In order to work the ships, the crew members have to have a US visa.

Customs and immigration flew out to the ship Wednesday and processed everyone for entry into the US so there would be no delays once the ship was docked.

Most of the crew will probably be housed in Mobile, and be back on the ship working on the cleanup and disinfection starting tomorrow.


User currently offlineBRJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 59):

I figured they must have US visas, but wasn't positive.

I cannot imagine how you begin to clean up the ship at this point, especially with the reports from passengers claiming that sewage was dripping down the walls and elevator shafts. What a daunting task!


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

While doing research I found this.

http://www.gl-group.com/en/15494.php

The 2009 SOLAS regulations required ships constructed after 1 July 2010 to have a 'Safe Return to Port' capabililty.

Some of the references indicate that deadline may have been pushed back.

Anyway - only two of Carnival's 24 operational ships would have to comply with that regulation.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 61):
The 2009 SOLAS regulations required ships constructed after 1 July 2010 to have a 'Safe Return to Port' capabililty.

They should follow the aviation industry and call it ETOPS: Engines Turn or Passengers Stink! 



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2217 posts, RR: 8
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Disgusting!!!


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineitsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting BRJ (Reply 57):
So the passengers will be bused/housed in hotels/flown back to Houston.

Some of these passengers can't catch a break. One of the buses chartered by Carnival broke down while transporting Triumph passengers from Mobile to New Orleans.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bus-c...ship-passengers-breaks-down-2013-2


User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

Come on guys, it's not that bad...at least they were not devoured by hungry beasts!     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7axonV2UA


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1413 times:

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 64):
Some of these passengers can't catch a break. One of the buses chartered by Carnival broke down while transporting Triumph passengers from Mobile to New Orleans.

You would really think you were cursed ! Ironic thing was in the UK and Ireland when all this was going on there were Carnival adverts running in between news updates  



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

Quoting itsjustme (Reply 64):
One of the buses chartered by Carnival broke down while transporting Triumph passengers from Mobile to New Orleans.

Did the bus toilet overflow too?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1271 times:

The bathrooms at work haven't been cleaned very well in a while. A co-worker said it was management's plan to make us think that we're on a Carnival cruise!

The other night Jon Stewart referred to the Carnival Triumph as the "Ship of Stools", ugh!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2217 posts, RR: 8
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
The bathrooms at work haven't been cleaned very well in a while. A co-worker said it was management's plan to make us think that we're on a Carnival cruise!

The other night Jon Stewart referred to the Carnival Triumph as the "Ship of Stools", ugh!

Thanks for making me laugh!



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1193 times:

Again, let's look at the bright side, here's some pros to being on the Carnival Cruise ship  ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59CdgRozXLk


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

I've watched one or two documentaries about building cruise ships, every single one of the ships in focus had backup generator. Most were in the form of diesel engines running huge dynamos.
One actually had a marine RB211 turbofan in in the base of the funnel.

So, some cruise liners do have back ups. Just perhaps not for manoeuvring.



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User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1056 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 71):
So, some cruise liners do have back ups. Just perhaps not for manoeuvring

They all have emergency power of some sort from an alternate area of the boat.

The problem is that emergency power generation is for minimum lighting, communications and the like not hotel power.

I am still surprised with the Triumph that even with two equipment rooms that the main bus could not be separated from the fire damage by some method either mechanically (cutting cables/unbolting buss section) or with electrical switch gear to provide more services to the boat until it could be towed to port.

Okie


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

They did restore sanitary water to half the ship before reaching port. The extra generators flown to the ship by the US Coast Guard after the ship got within range of the helicopters helped tremendously.

The ship was always able to maintain some food service capacity, though never able to provide enough power to cook hot meals for the entire passenger load and crew. Their refrigeration difficulties required the usage of perishables as soon as possible.

Many of the horror stories were from just a couple dozen people - who could not get the food they wanted. 'Forced' to eat cold sandwiches. To stand in line for 'hours' waiting.

Over 20 public restrooms were operational with sanitary water the entire time. However given the number of people on the ship, I'm sure the lines were long - too long for some people to wait.

The passengers were instructed to urinate in their showers/ bathtubs. Those would drain by gravity though I'm sure the p-traps would smell.

They were given red bio-hazard bags and instructed to place those in the toilet under the seat and to defecate into the bio-hazard bags. Those bags were to be sealed and placed in the hallway where they were picked up hourly by crew members.

The only places sewage overflowed was when passengers ignored the instructions and urinated into the toilets in their rooms - which do not drain by gravity. And the passengers refused to use the bio-hazard bags.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 984 times:

All we need now is some a weeping woman to blub "I thought we were going to die" at a camera and the story of this unfortunate incident will be complete!


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