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Pope Benedict XVI To Resign  
User currently offlineandrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5383 times:

Hey all,

little unexpected, but on Feb. 28 Pope Benedict XVI will resign due to health reasons.

News just breaking on Bloomberg.

[Edited 2013-02-11 02:58:46]

250 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5371 times:
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Al Jazeera and BBC confirm, saying they heard it from a Vatican spokesman.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/02/2013211105348481339.html

I must admit I am surprised. I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9076 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5359 times:
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Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I must admit I am surprised. I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.

Yes, so I've heard myself. But it looks like there is a possibility to resign from that position as well.

What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

Old age, a nice pension and a villa in the sun somewhere.


User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2439 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

History in the making. The last pope to resign was Coelestin V or Celestin V, who abdicated in 1294.

A wise move from him, because he did not manage to reform anything in the Roman Catholic Church.



David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineandrej From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

Well, latest news suggest that he is frail and unable to cope with the position. I guess that he will 'retire' and live his last days/months/years somewhere in a countryside.

He plans to retire on Feb. 28 at 20:00.

I am little bemused as I thought that this 'job' is for life as well.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I must admit I am surprised. I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.

I saw this information on the BBC News site - was wondering if it was posted. Thanks for starting a thread.

Pope Benedict XVI says he will resign, ANSA reports

1116
A Vatican official says he expects the period when the papacy is vacant to be "as brief as possible, Reuters reports.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21409149

There's been no Pope resignation in Eons of years.

His predecessor John Paul the Second was gravely ill many years and he still waited to die. He did not give his resignation in spite of his poor health condition and suffering so much pain.

This is very strange.

Possibly this "resignation" is all organized/fabricated by Vatican stronghold Cardinals with an already named "shadow" successor to this Pope.

If true, this will be the first time a Pope has left office since Pope Gregory XII in 1415!!!!

Maybe he will tweet his reasons himself. He just created a twitter account a couple months ago.

Edited to add link

Pope Benedict XVI to resign
Pope Benedict XVI has announced he will resign on February 28th, saying he no longer had the strength to fulfill the duties of his office.

more here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...4/Pope-Benedict-XVI-to-resign.html

Pope Benedict XVI resigns: pontiff's statement in full
The full statement from Pope Benedict XVI, who has announced he will resign on February 28.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...ns-pontiffs-statement-in-full.html

 Wow!   

The one thing I like about this Pope is that he is a dresser. Always looking so elegant with these beautiful vestments from the Vatican collections of traditional wear and also his red shoes. He is quite a fashionista!

[Edited 2013-02-11 03:35:20]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Possibly this "resignation" is all organized/fabricated by Vatican stronghold Cardinals with an already named "shadow" successor to this Pope.

Maybe he 'saw the light' and became a protestant.      


More seriously, I hope that his successor is a reformer.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Wow, didn't expect that ! There are a lot of politics going on in the Vatican (usual when an "old guy" is elected pope, since it is known he won't last), so I wonder who will come out. Will we have a pope from the South ? Or an Italian ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Can I be the next Pope?

I will turn Saint Peter and all Vatican property into National Museums and declared Italian government property. All remaining Vatican non-historical property and real estate owned by the Vatican will be sold.

I will spend all that money restoring all possibly flyable Concordes to flying condition including all Museum Concordes and will make sure all maintenance costs are paid for the next 100 years. I will have all the aircraft returned to Air France and British Airways for use in air shows and other exceptional circumstances.

Other historical aircraft such as the Avro Vulcan bomber XH558 will also be a part of this project.

All financial proceeds will go to aviation projects and various aviation/airlines charities wordwide. The Bank of the Vatican will be closed and the State of Vatican will no longer exist.

All Cardinals, Bishops and priests will be dismissed right on the spot at my becoming Pope. There will be no more such titles or jobs and will be free to start some other organisations/churches on their own.

        



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12617 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5174 times:
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Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

Well, I think he'll arrive at that sooner or later.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13137 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Wow, what a surprising announcement ! Definitely a rather unexpected news story to wake up to. As noted, it is the first abdication of the Papacy since 1294. While this is allowed by Canon Law, and Pope Benedict XVI has formally announced his departure to be effective as of February 24th. With such a long time since the last non-death ending of office it will be interesting to see how the process goes. Apparently he is resigning due to declining health limiting his ability to fully do his job. It is interesting that his timing of this announcement is just before Lent starts on Wednesday, one of the holiest periods of the church year.

Normally after a Pontiff dies, there is 9 days of official morning before the conclave of the Cardinals to determine the successor. I would presume a similar timing will occur, that the the Cardinals will meet in early March.

Of course after the initial shock of this announcement will be the huge speculation as to his successor. I bet already and in a few hours the 'horse race' will begin as to who could be likely successors. Could the church choose a person not from Europe, perhaps from Africa or the Americas? I expect the choice of another hard line conservative like Benedict XVI has been. Will they choose another 70+ year old or someone who in their 50's or 60's? The Church faces huge pressures on it for the horrible way that have handled the issues of sex abuser priests so could the choose someone who will change that attitude (doubt it). There is a 'war for souls' in Africa vs. Islam and other Christian faiths and millions of baptized Catholics have turned away from the Church for personal reasons. They need to make a bold choice to reform the Church to bring it into the 21st Century or face even more decline.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Can I be the next Pope?

If that's how you would waste all the money instead of actually helping people then hopefully not. Maybe that's why they won't give the job to a woman, to much insantity  


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

Incredible. I'm not really sure how one can legitimately resign from being the claimed successor of St. Peter (of course I don't even slightly recognise him as being so, but that's the claim).


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Apparently he is resigning due to declining health limiting his ability to fully do his job.

This is what we are being told - which I don't believe is the real truth.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Of course after the initial shock of this announcement will be the huge speculation as to his successor.

The next Pope name is probably already known within the Vatican "insiders" circle.

The rest is just stories for the public.

There have been so many scandals and bizarre happenings in the Vatican though the years. This is just one more to add to the list.

Marcinkus and the Ambrosiano scandal to name only one of them.

Paul Casimir Marcinkus (January 15, 1922 – February 20, 2006) was an American archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church. He was best known for his tenure as President of the Vatican Bank from 1971 through 1989

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Marcinkus

Age and health are not an issue for this Pope. His predecessor Pope John Paul II had a grave illness and he was in much less condition than this Pope and he continued the job til his very last day.

This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

      

[Edited 2013-02-11 04:41:06]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
which I don't believe is the real truth.

Hehe, Madame vous me faites rire!   

I can't recall the last time I saw anything reported that you didn't believe was some kind of conspiracy.   

I jest, of course.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1624 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5137 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
If that's how you would waste all the money instead of actually helping people then hopefully not. Maybe that's why they won't give the job to a woman, to much insantity

Well the proposals by Madama Concorde sound much better to me than how the church is spending it now. I have a serious dislike for the Roman Catholic church, getting rid of that puppet show and getting some Concorde's in the air sounds like a terrific good idea.

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:04:26]


Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5102 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 16):
getting rid of that puppet show and getting some Concorde's in the air sounds like a terrific good idea.

If only such choices existed!



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
I can't recall the last time I saw anything reported that you didn't believe was some kind of conspiracy.

I am not one who believes everything I am being told by the media.

At least they won't find this Pope dead in a strange way. He will be allowed to finish his life in peace with his cats and his grand piano. He will be much happier that way.

Pianist Pope Reflects on Power of Music
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pia...st-pope-reflects-on-power-of-music

Pope Benedict XVI And Music: A Love Story Told In Pictures
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...enedict-xvi-loves-c_n_1566052.html

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 16):
getting rid of that puppet show and getting some Concorde's in the air sounds like a terrific good idea.

In fact this Pope may very well have flown on Concorde on Pope John Paul II official flights when he had the Vatican charter Air France Concordes on a few of his long distance travels to make his travel time shorter.

May 2 1989 - Pope John Paul II waves to the crowds from a Concorde jet at Luanda airport (Photo #2)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47226000/jpg/_47226468_51397293.jpg

I would in fact be serving former Pope's memory by having the planes restored to flying condition if I can be the next Pope. Also I will be serving the aviation community as a whole and become extremely popular for returning Concorde to flight.

     

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:01:25]

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:09:12]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Age and health are not an issue for this Pope.

I disagree somewhat. Sure JP2 continued his papal duties till the end, but he had no control over the Vatican, and it's the same with Benoit. The house of cards is falling apart and only a strong leader can clean up the mess.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
I am not one who believes everything I am being told by the media.

Well, I can certainly understand why. I agree to a large extent. Having said that, not everything is a conspiracy.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Sounds like his health has been going downward swiftly in the past few months, punctuated by his doctor advising him against travelling on longer journeys, and him having trouble even walking. Some rumours even mentions early stages of Parkinson's.

Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana, Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras, or Angelo Scola of Italy. Whomever is chosen in the coming conclave, it will have to be one who cannot be conncted to the cover-up scandals that have rocked the Vatican in the last few years. It'll be the only way forward for the Catholic church.

[Edited 2013-02-11 05:19:29]

User currently offlineLH7478i From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

Opinions about pope Benedikt XVI left aside, it was probably the best thing for everybody that he "retired" from the office. What would be the point of having a pope only being exhibited to the public on the catholic holidays with no real control over his office while he is on live support or in another difficult condition.


A319, A320, A321, A333, A346, B733, B735, B73G, B738, B744, B748, B757, B767, CRJ200, CRJ700, CRJ900, EMB135, EMB145, E1
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I thought this was a "job" for life quite literally.

The Roman Catholic Church, and some others, have a major problem, and hopefully this action will make dealing with that problem easier in the future.

The church basically says the Pope is appointed personally by God to lead the church. And only God determines how long he has that position. Some other churches have a similar view.

The problem is that modern medical science is well able to carry a person past what would normally be the end of their life.

The Roman Catholic Church now says biships, and other clergy, should retire at age 75. The pope should not be an exception to the concept of retirement due to age/ health in my opinion.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 2):
What happens to him after being pope? Usually it is death, but what now?

He becomes a retired priest. His statement says he wishes to continue to serve the Church through a life of prayer. i.e. he won't be able to do much in the rest of his life but rest in the equilavent of an old age home awaiting his death.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 21):
Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana, Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras, or Angelo Scola of Italy. Whomever is chosen in the coming conclave

The next Pope is probably all set up already or at least in the process of being named in the shadow.

The eligible Cardinals cannot conclave officially until after Pope Benny's resignation date. I would say they will conclave and have the vote by mid-March.

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
As noted, it is the first abdication of the Papacy since 1294.

Here is the list of Popes that have resigned.

1) Pontain Sept 28, 235

2) Marcellinus In the year of 304

3) Silverius Nov 11, 537

4) John XVIII In the year of 1009

5) Benedict IX May 1, 1045

6) Celestine V Dec 10, 1249

7) Gregory XII July 4, 1417.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17649 posts, RR: 46
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):

I will turn Saint Peter and all Vatican property into National Museums and declared Italian government property. All remaining Vatican non-historical property and real estate owned by the Vatican will be sold.

  

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

He realized he's been a terrible head of a criminal organization that has existed by raping and pillaging for centuries?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 21):
Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana

Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson (born 11 October 1948) is a Ghanaian Cardinal of the Catholic Church. He is the current president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace since his appointment by Pope Benedict XVI on 24 October 2009. He had previously served as Archbishop of Cape Coast. He was elevated to the cardinalate by Pope John Paul II in 2003.

more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turkson

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
He realized he's been a terrible head of a criminal organization that has existed by raping and pillaging for centuries?

The pope made a speech in Latin this morning saying he doesn't have the strength anymore.

Ratzinger is old but he still has an incredible mind. What has shaken him? who can tell.

 

List of the 11 shortest-reigning Popes

Boniface VI (April, 896):[14] reigned for 16 calendar days
Celestine IV (October 25–November 10, 1241): reigned for 17 calendar days, died before consecration.
Theodore II (December, 897) reigned for 20 calendar days
Sisinnius (January 15–February 4, 708): reigned for 21 calendar days
Marcellus II (April 9–May 1, 1555): reigned for 22 calendar days
Damasus II (July 17–August 9, 1048): reigned for 24 calendar days
Pius III (September 22–October 18, 1503): reigned for 27 calendar days.
Leo XI (April 1–April 27, 1605): reigned for 27 calendar days
Benedict V (May 22–June 23, 964): reigned for 33 calendar days.
John Paul I (August 26–September 28, 1978): reigned for 33 calendar days.

 alert 

[Edited 2013-02-11 06:08:06]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5191 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Age and health are not an issue for this Pope. His predecessor Pope John Paul II had a grave illness and he was in much less condition than this Pope and he continued the job til his very last day.

This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

I think he doesn't want to end up like JP2, better to go whilst you still have all your faculties intact than remaining like a puppet to be displayed on special occasions.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):
I think he doesn't want to end up like JP2, better to go whilst you still have all your faculties intact than remaining like a puppet to be displayed on special occasions.

This. He's 85, coming up on 86, he can barely walk, he's lost a lot of energy, his doctors have told him to avoid travels. He saw up, close, and personally what happened to JP2, and has decided he doesn't want to end like that.

It's a break with tradition, but I'm pretty sure I can remember back in 2005, a lot of experts predicting that his reign would be a brief interlude, until a young(ish) pope could be chosen. Perhaps he feels that now's the time to bring one such pope in.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 29):
He's 85, coming up on 86, he can barely walk, he's lost a lot of energy, his doctors have told him to avoid travels.

The Man in White hasn't lost any of his intellectual capabilities. His mind is sharp as anything.

That he cancelled his travels is a good idea - it saves a lot of money. He has had a totally different style than that of his predecessor who had really reached stardom worldwide travelling everywhere. Pope Benny is totally old fashioned traditional.

Pope Benedict XVI remains in full charge of the church until 7pm (GMT) February 28th

I don't think Turkson will be chosen for next Pope as he has caused uproar among his peers.

Cardinal Peter Turkson Causes Uproar With 'Muslim Scare' Video At Vatican

(Reuters) - A Roman Catholic cardinal has caused an uproar at the Vatican by screening a spurious YouTube video that makes alarmist predictions about the growth of Islam in Europe.
The seven-minute clip, called "Muslim Demographics," was the talk of an international gathering of bishops on Monday, two days after Cardinal Peter Turkson screened it during a free discussion period.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1968544.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

My take is that the next Pope will be an Italian - returning to the tradition of Italian Popes after the two past foreign Popes.

RAI TV station Live (in Italian)
http://www.rai.it/dl/rai/news.html

Popes die as Popes, this is weird, JPII could hardly keep his head up and he died as a Pope.
Something is not right

 Wow!

[Edited 2013-02-11 06:51:34]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6609 posts, RR: 6
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5118 times:
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Quoting CPH-R (Reply 29):
until a young(ish) pope could be chosen. Perhaps he feels that now's the time to bring one such pope in.

Pope Benedict appointed in 55% of the cardinals that are eligible to vote in his successor and the rest were appointed by JP II; who in turn elected Benedict. So its likely that the same "line" of though will be maintained.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5104 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 21):

Early rumours on a potential future pope are cardinals Peter Turkson of Ghana,
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson (born 11 October 1948) is a Ghanaian Cardinal of the Catholic Church. He is the current president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace since his appointment by Pope Benedict XVI on 24 October 2009. He had previously served as Archbishop of Cape Coast. He was elevated to the cardinalate by Pope John Paul II in 2003.

more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T...rkson

A Black Guy as Pope???

I don't see it! I'll have sore kidneys for years from laughing so hard as a new religious European Tea Party springs up demanding ..'they want their Church back!'

If true, my European friends having trouble understanding the 'It's Obama's Fault' dilemma..get ready to be tested in the same way.. and it is sure to unfold in the very same manner with political leaders making snide comments of his legitimacy. At least this guy wasn't a member of Nazi Hitler Youth and chances are minimal that he played the popular shell game in hiding those tied to child molestation in their past.

I know there's been a black Pope or two in the past, but a lot of financial and political clout has been accumulated since, this is the age of serious 'Borgia-style' politics within those walls - this is about to get interesting.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 32):
A Black Guy as Pope???

I don't see it!

Not that he is African (Black) more because of his speech on Muslims.

Looking at possible successors I am thinking of Angelo Comastri. He is Italian. The Archpriest of Saint Peter's basilica. Hes the Vicar General for the Vatican, the day-to-day administrator. And hes the President of the Fabric of Saint Peter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Comastri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabric_of_Saint_Peter

Pope's Dove Attacked By Seagull At Holocaust Remembrance Day Ceremony (PHOTO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ed-by-seagull-peace_n_2574054.html


Pope latest twit Feb 10
Benedict XVI‏@Pontifex
We must trust in the mighty power of God’s mercy. We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new.

   



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1594 posts, RR: 4
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

I do NOT wish bad upon him at all, but feel that because of his past, he should have never even had this job in the first place.

Marc


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

I doubt a black pope would be a problem in itself, with fewer and fewer westerners willing to live the priesthood (or able, since now homosexuality is forbidden even if non "practiced" ), you see imported priests from Africa everywhere.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

I do NOT wish bad upon him at all, but feel that because of his past, he should have never even had this job in the first place.

One could hold him up of an example of how someone's childhood and what was prevalent on them at the time does not have to mean they are cursed for life because of it. If he had been an adult in the SS then I think you would have more of a point.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4999 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):

As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

Yes, becuse everyone forced to be a Hitler Youth wanted to be one, and they all obviously hated the Jews.  

On a different note, will the cardinals convene prior to him leaving office, so there is a seamless transition, or will they convene after the Pope leaves office, much like if the current Pope dies?



So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Some of the Italian candidates are :

Gianfranco Ravasi
Angelo Scola
Tarcisio Bertone
Angelo Bagnasco
Dionigi Tettamanzi

Quoting Aesma (Reply 35):
I doubt a black pope would be a problem in itself

The man known as the Black Pope is the Superior General of the Society of Jesus - the Jesuits leader. The former Black Pope has recently stepped down to be replaced.

Jesuits to Elect a New 'Black Pope'

The Jesuits' outgoing Superior General is a soft-spoken Netherlands native named Father Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, who has served since 1983. The 79-year-old last year became the first ever Jesuit leader to ask for, and receive, papal permission to retire from the post.

more:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1700157,00.html

Another possible next Pope and total reformist

Christoph Maria Michael Hugo Damian Peter Adalbert (Graf von) Schönborn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Sch%C3%B6nborn

It seems to me it's already been decided.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8866 posts, RR: 24
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

From Wiki:

"Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[12]—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[13] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[14] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).[13] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[15] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[16] As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.[16] He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Be...ct_XVI#Early_life:_1927.E2.80.9351

Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

To add to Dreadnought's post (was going to add that to mine):

Quote:
he eventually deserted and made his way to the American lines.[16] The Ratzinger family, according to those who knew them, were very religious and hated the Nazi regime.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.

  



So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

Any Catholic man can be elected Pope. He doesn't have to be a Cardinal or even a priest.
If a layman is elected, he is first ordained as priest, then Bishop of Rome (Pope).

How about a woman?

   Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):

Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.

You don't know that!

That's all we have to go on??? What his brother said?

Kurt Wilhelm, was long suspected of Nazi associations and rose to political prominence as head of the UN.

The point is, anyone with Nazi associations Before the war's end ... Totally Cleaned up their dossier After the War with the picture being very clear as to what your future WILL BE like from this point forward!

That meant Everyone was busy changing up their story and whitewashing it as best they could to look as Anti-Nazi as they possibly could - the Guilty and non-Guilty alike. But especially the Guilty!

This is all you have is some 21st Century recall (by his brother) of how innocent he was ??? Please! Give me an effin' break.

The Eugenics Program started back in the early 1920s, by the 1930s it was a very very safe bet that people who had visible deformities or physically handicapped members of their families - HID them or were totally embarrassed by them. Many b&w films from the 1940s & 50s do a brilliant job of showing that exact behaviour of much of society. So by the late 1930s, if Ratzinger had such a cousin, he more than likely steered clear of them for sheer and utter fear of social stigmas of the day in judging people by such association and indication of distinct poor bloodlines.

Only the courageous stood up for unfortunate people of the day, and I guarantee you that number was likw 1 in a million! Was Ratzinger such a courageous person then, a 1 in a million? I seriously doubt that! Hell...there'd be tons of documentation about him taking down molesting priests by the millions from the 1960s onwards if he were such a person. But no such records exist. We all know it was going on...where was Ratzinger?? My guess is he was busy buying White-Out by the pallet and burning photos, trying to spiff up his Nazi Youth days to look as unblemished as possible!

....and all you have is 'his brother said..."

Nothing about Ratzinger hints that he was some brave soul...anywhere!

Jeez!

Sorry dude, that won't even hold up in an Arkansas backwood courthouse.

Not only that...a 14 year old kid then is nothing like a 14 year old today, although today they are largely trouble making bumblebees of mischief, back then you were forced to grow up fast - really fast, meaning you had the mindset closer to a 18 or 19 year old because of the 'survival mode thinking' with your Nation on the move as a kickass War juggernaut!

I'm sorry, but it'll take a lot more....much more than 'his Brother said' to even get me to consider he was this angelic kid (as you believe) kicking and screaming while being dragged off to serve in the Hitler Youth Corp.

If anything. because of such a genetically-weak family member..the pressure was on to prove you were a top flight Aryan and believed wholeheartedly in der Fuhrer! I say he begged and cried to join...probably even told the SS where to find his deeply hidden crippled relative.



BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
How about a woman?

Given that 3 years ago women priests were considered an “crime against the faith” by the Vatican , I doubt that'll happen.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Since he didn't die, are the priests going to wear black or not?


我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4865 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
How about a woman?

Clearly not going to happen.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14058 posts, RR: 62
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

One of my history teachers in highschool was, as most boys of his age, who were born aroundd 1930, a member of the Hitler Youth and was fully brainwashed by Nazi propaganda. He was in April 1945 one of the teenage boys handed a rifle and a few rounds of ammo and told to take on the Red Army already entering Berlin´s outskirts.
His fighting came to a quick end after his temples were perced by a fragment of a shell fired by a Soviet tank (he told us that the last thing he ever saw in his life was this tank coming around the street corner). After he recovered, he finished highschool and later studied history in university, earning a PhD and later becoming a teacher. I have rarely known a person fiercer on denouncing totalitarian forms of government, may they be from the left or the right and who taught us to be critical defenders of democracy. Like others, who served in various positions under the Nazis, he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis and became one of their strongest opponents.
His message was simple: Democracy and rule of law is the best form of state ever devised, after many attempts at other forms. The current German constitution with it´s emphasis on civil rights, equality of humans in front of the law with complete disregard of race, religion, gender and disabilities, and the dignity of humankind, is the best base of a law we ever had in Germany. Every citizen has the duty to defend this system against any type of attack.
Thanks, Dr. Liepe. I only realised what eactly you were teaching us when I became an adult.

Jan


User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

I believe enrolment in the the Hitler Youth program was compulsory.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):

Please read up on the Hitler Youth...



So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
I'm sorry, but it'll take a lot more....much more than 'his Brother said' to even get me to consider he was this angelic kid (as you believe) kicking and screaming while being dragged off to serve in the Hitler Youth Corp.

Do you think you are the first person to discover Pope Benedict's past? His youth has been chronicled by thousands of journalists, historians, theologians, and casual observers alike. No one knows what was in his mind as a young man except for himself, of course, but the generally accepted story, supported by a heck of a lot more than his brother's statement, is that Benedict, like countless other Germans of his age, was indoctrinated into the totalitarian political movement of his era but his actions suggest, as do mountains of evidence, that he was an unwitting, if not repentant participant in the events of the time. Surely his atonement speaks for something.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4849 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 45):
Clearly not going to happen.

I don't see why not.

There was a woman Pope in History. Her name was Pope Joan although some scholars pretend she never existed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 46):
Like others, who served in various positions under the Nazis, he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis and became one of their strongest opponents.

Exactly, and had they won...your teacher would be one of their biggest supporters today. Along with Ratzinger.

Your story confirms the pressure on kids & people to conform here when you say 'he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis'
....well look at America 2002 and the height of George Bush's popularity before invading Iraq in the 80% range...people totally caught up in the fervor and scared to death to speak out against it. No one today wants to own up and admit that were swept up by this - I'm on record here vehemently opposing it and took a A380-load of heat from A.netters (past and present) for doing so.

Dreadnaughts attempt to paint Ratzinger as this poor kid who was besieged by family misfortune (a physically disabled member) taken and forced at gunpoint to join the Hitler Youth is absurd and wishful thinking. People back then were under fierce pressure to prove healthy optimal blood lines..that seriously meant hiding away members who visibly defied that thinking of the day.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8320 posts, RR: 9
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
I will turn Saint Peter and all Vatican property into National Museums and declared Italian government property.

The current set up appears to be pretty successful in terms of generating tourist revenues. I think part of that is that the Faithful from all nations consider it "their country" when they travel to it. They want to go to the home of their faith, not just "take a trip to Italy".

As far as the resignation goes - this might be in the best interests of the Church. There have been problems with child abuse and there is a need for someone to address these problems head on.

Personally I wish Benedict well and hope he finds peace in his remaining years.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Maybe the Pope is just tired of the whole Vatican scene and he wants to retire and have himself some peace and quiet.

Like any retired Head of State I suppose he will have a cook, a house care taker, a driver and a secretary. He will be able to write books, play music, receive visitors and take care of his cats.

His successor will take on the job and all the problems that go with it.

Pope Benny the Man in White is a wise man.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6237 posts, RR: 34
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
They need to make a bold choice to reform the Church to bring it into the 21st Century or face even more decline.

It can't help but continue declining.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

I agree. If his mind is still sharp there is no reason for him to retire.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
How about a woman?

Nope... she would be passing out apples to all the cardinals and then... you know....



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 47):
I believe enrolment in the the Hitler Youth program was compulsory.

Why read up on it..I never said it wasn't. Nor do I care.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 48):
No one knows what was in his mind as a young man except for himself, of course, but the generally accepted story, supported by a heck of a lot more than his brother's statement

But it's not hard to put yourself near his shoes...where were you when America was swept in making war on Iraq in 2002..did you get caught up in the hoopla? Or did you publicly argue against it? It's the very same thing except in 1939 Germany, it was 10X as bad. Imagine speaking up in that atmosphere...you know where he'd be, right? Not alive to ever become Pope.

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 48):
but his actions suggest, as do mountains of evidence, that he was an unwitting, if not repentant participant in the events of the time. Surely his atonement speaks for something.

Mountains of evidence? Where? What actions? Did he hide Jews? Gypsies? .. all while in Nazi Youth Wear?

His atonement falls inline with all the other former German warriors who feel bad about losing. You can't pick from that crowd and discern who's telling the truth vs who isn't. Anyone can say 'I'm sorry...' what is your barometer for knowing whether not they mean it? I'm sure the guy -er (Pope at the time) known as Hitler's Pope was sorry too on June 1st 1945.

And if he was so full or valor as you make him to be... where are all his actions of crushing child molesting priest in the 1960s? 1970s? 1980s? 1990s?....any records of that? I'm sure some hack is drafting some history about him right now.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-11 09:32:27]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
There was a woman Pope in History.

If it was true - that woman was masquerading as a man, and removed when determined to be a woman.

So not the same things as choosing a woman to be pope.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4718 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
I don't see why not.

Well, probably because the Catholic Church simply does not allow it. I doubt they are going to suddenly revise their scriptural interpretations overnight.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 55):
If it was true - that woman was masquerading as a man, and removed when determined to be a woman.

This is quite a good possibility. I had not thought about it.

  

Queen Beatrix is going to step down.

Pope Benny has announced today that he will step down.

Who will be next to step down? Queen Lizzie in favour of her favourite Prince William?

She is about the same age as the Pope.

 Wow!

Will Pope Benny make his birth certificate and Nazi Youth groups papers public after he steps down?

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 57):

Who will be next to step down? Queen Lizzie in favour of her favourite Prince William?

Not possible, Chuck is next in line, the only way William becomes King after Elizabeth is if Chuck abdicates in favour of Willie .


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 58):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 57):

Who will be next to step down? Queen Lizzie in favour of her favourite Prince William?

Not possible, Chuck is next in line, the only way William becomes King after Elizabeth is if Chuck abdicates in favour of Willie .

Precisely. Also, there is no reason for the Queen to abdicate in the first place. She is in good shape on the whole, and we do not have a particularly strong tradition of abdication, in contrast to the Netherlands where it is more accepted.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14058 posts, RR: 62
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 50):
Exactly, and had they won...your teacher would be one of their biggest supporters today. Along with Ratzinger.

Your story confirms the pressure on kids & people to conform here when you say 'he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis'

So once a Nazi, even being a teeager, always a Nazi? People never learn, or people who grew up in Nazi Germany, but now support democracy are just opportunists? You don´t seem to understand how it is to live in a totalitarian society, where independent information is highly restricted. The people, who actively stood up against the Nazis were either older people, who had life experience from BEFORE the Nazi rule or they used to be Nazi supporters, who saw things during the war, e.g. while being soldiers in Russia, which disturbed them greatly (e.g. the male members of the group around the Scholl siblings or the officers, who tried to kill Hitler in 1944). Then be glad that you live in such a tower of democracy as the US, since people from other places obviously can´t be trusted and any German, who grew up during the Nazi period must just be a secret Nazi.
Look at the actor Hardy Krüger. He grew up at a Nazi Ordensburg school (run by the SS to breed a new generation of obedient, blue eyed, blond Aryan supermen). First, he did not get on well with the constant paramilitary drill. Secondly, when being sent to the Defa movie studios to act as a teenager in some movie, he encountered people, who were in "inner emmigration" and heard critical voices about the Nazis. After WW2, so,mehow he became the first German actor popular abroad. Since he was tall, blue-eyed and blond, he often got shoehorned into stereotypical Nazi officer roles. But in reality he used to live in Tansania for many years (he bought the farm used for shooting the movie "Hatari") and is now known for TV programmes about travelling all over the world.

Jan


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12118 posts, RR: 49
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4614 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
This is what we are being told - which I don't believe is the real truth.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
I can't recall the last time I saw anything reported that you didn't believe was some kind of conspiracy.

I jest, of course.

I don't where do you come up with this stuff.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
I would in fact be serving former Pope's memory by having the planes restored to flying condition if I can be the next Pope. Also I will be serving the aviation community as a whole and become extremely popular for returning Concorde to flight.

Who is going to pay for this CRAZT idea. Not everything revolves around concorde.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

I do NOT wish bad upon him at all, but feel that because of his past, he should have never even had this job in the first place.

Marc

I totally agree with you, he should never have risen as far as he did.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

I'm truly amazed at some of the posts here in response to the Pope deciding to resign. Sometimes people just want to say "I'm tired", and move on without a whole lot of fuss, allowing someone with more energy to take the reigns.

If god does in fact direct who's chosen as Pope, perhaps this is god's will in action at the present time.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

I am a devout Catholic and I am a little disappointed by the name calling and hate toward this man. Was the man perfect? No. Was he a sinner? Yes, but we all are sinners. But I believe that the man worked tirelessly for peace and for the dignity of human life, and I am glad that he served the Catholic Church so well these past few years. As a Catholic, I pray that the Cardinals elect someone to take over who can really bring the world of God and hope to all people on this world, especially in the poorest of locations, but also in more modern societies, where moral values have declined and selfishness, arrogance, and pride have taken hold.

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

What happens during the Pope's vacant seat from the time he resigns to the time a new Pope is chosen.

Sede vacante
Sede vacante is an expression, used in the Canon Law of the Catholic Church and the Church of England, that refers to the vacancy of the episcopal see of a particular church. It is Latin for "the seat being vacant" (the ablative absolute of sedes vacans "vacant seat"), the seat in question being the cathedra of the particular church.

Vacancy of the Holy See
The arms of the Holy See sede vacante.

After the death or resignation of a pope the Holy See becomes sede vacante. In this case the particular church is the Diocese of Rome and the "vacant seat" is the cathedra of Saint John Lateran, the cathedral church of the bishop of Rome. During this period, the Holy See is administered by a regency of the College of Cardinals.

read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sede_vacante

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
That meant Everyone was busy changing up their story and whitewashing it as best they could to look as Anti-Nazi as they possibly could

Not really, staunch Nazis normally remained staunch Nazis at best claiming that "those were the times", defending the Nazi ideology all the way into the 60s.

(Camp) Followers who were mostly very much career aware did try to whitewash their personal affiliation with the Nazis, but there is no evidence that Mr. Ratzinger did exactly that. He never made a career under the Nazis, it is proven that spirituality has been more important to him than politics, and since he is a public, high ranking person, some historians will have evaluated his personal history - including Jewish historians. Try finding a reference to Mr. Ratzinger at Yad Vashem. There is none, because they didn't find Ratzinger's HJ membership worth to be mentioned.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 50):
People back then were under fierce pressure to prove healthy optimal blood lines..that seriously meant hiding away members who visibly defied that thinking of the day.

This is, again, only partially true. The "Euthanasia" program had indeed been criticized by the general population. There had been protests that lead to the official ending of the T4 campaign as announced by Hitler in 1941. Had people been keen to "prove healthy optimal blood lines" (which apparently means that the loss of a family member to the T4 program was okay as long as this helps proving the healthy blood line?) there would have been no need to conceal the T4 program from 1941 on.
You are confusing this with hiding a Jewish "blood line".

What you do is, you claim that unless a 14-year old is as heroic as e.g. Hans and Sophie Scholl and gets incarcerated - better jet: killed - is to be mistrusted because he could have been (or could still be) a Nazi who whitewashed his history. That's quite smug to say the least.

// --- snip snap ---

I never liked Ratzinger, but stepping back from his positions proves sense of responsibility that deserves respect.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12512 posts, RR: 35
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
Kurt Wilhelm, was long suspected of Nazi associations and rose to political prominence as head of the UN.

I think you meant Kurt Waldheim. He went on to become president of Austria but by then was banned from entering the US (and some other countries too).

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 46):
I have rarely known a person fiercer on denouncing totalitarian forms of government, may they be from the left or the right and who taught us to be critical defenders of democracy. Like others, who served in various positions under the Nazis, he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis and became one of their strongest opponents.
His message was simple: Democracy and rule of law is the best form of state ever devised, after many attempts at other forms. The current German constitution with it´s emphasis on civil rights, equality of humans in front of the law with complete disregard of race, religion, gender and disabilities, and the dignity of humankind, is the best base of a law we ever had in Germany

Thank you very much for sharing this; fascinating story.

I have to say, as a (badly) practising Catholic, I've never been a fan of Benedict XVI. I have wanted to give him a chance. I have tried to stand back and make excuses, for example that much of the blame for his perceived inflexibility and the hostility of some of his language is because the liberal media presents him that way. But one can only go so far and the reality is that while society continues to change, the church has not moved with the times; it continues with the language of hostility and discrimination towards certain sectors of the population - not just gays, but women too. I really do think that the Church is doing itself an immense disservice through its opposition to women having any meaningful role in the Church and it's not just a case of it being offensive to women, but also the character of the organisation - "all head and no heart" ... which the current pope embodied: very intellectually powerful but when it came to compassion and "the human touch", very lacking. I don't see the next Pope changing things that much - certainly during the current Pope's lifetime. It will only change when it sees the need to and I think it will take a leader who recognises the reality of the "real world", that the world is at it is, not what the Church wants it to be; the Church serves the world and the people, not vice versa. It could be a great organisation, but I don't see the recognition of the challenge facing it, nor the will to change.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 63):
I am a devout Catholic and I am a little disappointed by the name calling and hate toward this man.

Yeah me too. You have the normal ones coming out, either claiming that it's the millionth conspiracy of 2013 or that he knows so much about the Hitler Youth and the Pope's past. But I won't deny that he may have indeed believed in the Nazi propaganda, such as millions wrongly believed, but I wasn't there and I'm not him, no one on this board is.

I'm hoping for a new Pope that will usher in good change. And I'd rather a Pope resign when he is frail and incapable of performing his job rather than fight it out and do much less than an able Pope can



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineiakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 35
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

There are obviously many things you cannot figure out.
If you had been at the same place as him at the same period you would have been conscripted as well.

At an important juncture in the Catholic church saga, and according to what many see as missed opportunities and a certain conservative passivity, there certainly might be active backstage talking going on for some time.
Nonetheless, it is also obvious Benoît is in a pretty bad condition, last I saw him he could barely talk, not the man for the job at this time. The seat will go to a younger and non-European cardinal.


User currently offlinehOmsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Maybe he's retiring to spend more time with his family?

Or perhaps he's got a good offer for a consulting gig somewhere...



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

Some articles in the Media are saying that the Vatileaks scandal is the reason why the Pope has resigned.

What is VatiLeaks

The Vatileaks scandal[1][2][3] is a scandal involving leaked Vatican documents, allegedly exposing corruption. The scandal first came to light in late January 2012 in a television programme aired in Italy under the name of The Untouchables (Gli intoccabili). Further information was released when Italian journalist Gianluigi Nuzzi published letters from Carlo Maria Viganò, formerly the second ranked Vatican administrator to the pope, in which he begged not to be transferred for having exposed alleged corruption that cost the Holy See millions in higher contract prices. Viganò is now the Apostolic Nuncio to the United States.

read more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatileaks_scandal

VatiLeaks website
http://www.vatileaks.com/
http://www.vatileaks.com/_blog/Vati_Leaks

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

After he steps down is he still going to be referred to as Pope Benedict or will he go back to his original name Razinger?


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 71):
After he steps down is he still going to be referred to as Pope Benedict or will he go back to his original name Razinger?

They will have to research into old manuscripts in the Vatican Library to see what was done in the Middle Ages with the last resigning Popes unless they have articles in Cannon Law that gives them the answer.

He could stay Benedict XVI or go back to being called Cardinal Josef Ratzinger. His Cardinal title will last him until the last day of his life.

He may not even be given a Papal funeral when he is dead, the same as his predecessor John Paul II as he will no longer be acting Pope.

The Pope is an intellectual so he will keep busy writing books and playing his favourite composer's music on his piano in his spare time.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6013 posts, RR: 3
Reply 73, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 70):
Some articles in the Media are saying that the Vatileaks scandal is the reason why the Pope has resigned.

Pretty damn late, given that the documents were released a year ago, and the person responsible for leaking them has already been tried, convicted, AND recieved a Papal pardon.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21484 posts, RR: 53
Reply 74, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

I feel some human compassion for an old man retiring from a tough and draining job.

But as for his years in office, he ruled the catholic church with an intense determination to further entrench the ugly authoritarian ideology of the past, making just tactical attempts to appear conciliatory and open – which failed badly in several cases.

He contributed to making the catholic church an even more remote and more extreme fringe organisation which fewer and fewer people trust any more, not least due to all kinds of scandals which were almost universally handled very badly, with little regard for the respective victims.

Rigid ideology always trumped actual spiritual enlightenment, which would have been the one possible saving grace for a religion.

And given the decades-long pre-rigging of the upcoming conclave, it appears unlikely that his successor will be much of an improvement.

That more and more people are leaving this organisation and its ideology behind is not accidental – by consistently choosing ideology over humanity this pope has further contributed to alienate more and more people within and outside of his church.

He made the catholic church even more a part of the problem, instead of a part of the solution.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 75, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 60):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 50):
Exactly, and had they won...your teacher would be one of their biggest supporters today. Along with Ratzinger.

Your story confirms the pressure on kids & people to conform here when you say 'he became totally disilluishioned with the Nazis'

So once a Nazi, even being a teeager, always a Nazi? People never learn, or people who grew up in Nazi Germany, but now support democracy are just opportunists?

Once a Nazi, always a Nazi? No.

Except for the guys in South America..them? Yes.


I'm solely targeting Ratzinger, but I'm sure my 6th grade Teacher Mrs Durnberger was a Nazi - jeez, I can sill see her face how she longed for the good ol' days.

I have but the greatest respect for how the German People have handled the post Nazi era. They don't shrink from it or hide from it or suppress it and pretend it didn't happen as do the Japanese.

But focusing on Ratzinger, it is him and only him that bothered me from the start given his Nazi Youth background, in fact..the young German soldiers you see (on film reels) fighting and surrendering around the fall of Berlin..look to be 15 and 16. Ratzinger was 18 or 19 by 1945..I seriously doubt he was hanging out with the 12 and 13 year olds making bullets and sewing khakis.

I simply don't by his story because if he was noble then, he'd have a noble record against Church wrongs dating back to the 1960s when he was well into his 40s...and I see nothing to convince me otherwise.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 60):
You don´t seem to understand how it is to live in a totalitarian society, where independent information is highly restricted.

You couldn't be more wrong, I've been to Cuba and China...try again.

I own nearly every piece of Nazi/WWII documentary produced by American and European companies focussing on the subject. The recent Rape of Europa (2 hours alone on the theft of valued Art Works by the Germans and Russians) is new favorite along with my all time favorite the German film 'Downfall' the last days of Adolph.

None of that makes ma any kind of expert on any of that, but I shows I've donated the time to see as much real footage of the era (along with reading) of the civilians who did live during the time, Hitler's secretary who narrates in throughout the film is one of those people from which much can be learned about what people thought, how they felt, what pressure was brought to bear upon those trying to survive. Add to that the very survivors who were young people (including one of my neighbors) during that era. So I'd say I have a better idea than many of what may be plausible and what may be suspect as to Ratzinger's claims of how innocent he was. The few older people I know who I spoke to about this very subject when Ratzinger 1st came into the spotlight...didn't by into his spill for 1 second. They flat out called him a Nazi.

If he was an atoned Nazi, he still has no business being a Pope.. he should have declined in the 1st round of voting in the conclave. If he had any integrity, he would have.

And now that his reign is ending, it is crystal clear what his agenda was...did it advance in any way, shape or form the image of the Catholic Church?

Hell no! That means he fought hard to become Pope to what he do exactly what did do...making the Church more resentful than it was by far. JP II was way better in the job than this guy could be..and his Nazi past lies many have something to do with his current attitude.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-11 11:41:45]

[Edited 2013-02-11 11:57:08]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 76, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 70):
Some articles in the Media are saying that the Vatileaks scandal is the reason why the Pope has resigned.

What is VatiLeaks

(...)

read more (on VatiLeaks):

(...)

VatiLeaks website

(...)
 Wow!

Please tell me it is not the first time you have heard of VatiLeaks!

You often proudly say that you do not trust "the media". But perhaps you should read a good newspaper from time to time, really.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12617 posts, RR: 46
Reply 77, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4446 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
it saves a lot of money

One thing the catholic church is not short of.

Quoting apodino (Reply 63):

Before or after they put their own rotten, corrupt, child-molesting house in order?  



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 78, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 76):
Please tell me it is not the first time you have heard of VatiLeaks!

I have heard of it once or twice before but never looked into it until I posted those links here on this thread.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 79, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

FYI-According to the Malachy predictions,the beginning of the end with the last Pope will be Peter the Roman.That happens now.

Will see how right that is.Stay tune.



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8320 posts, RR: 9
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
I don't see why not.

The Church is far too dominated by men - and unmarried men at that.

Because of the scope of sexual abuse of children in the Church the best we can hope for these days is allowing Priests to marry. When it is children who pay the price for celibacy then it's probably time to provide for unions that allow sex in a normal environment. (And, no, I am not eliminating gays - just pedophiles.)

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 57):
Who will be next to step down? Queen Lizzie in favour of her favourite Prince William?

I doubt if Elizabeth will step down unless she is suffering a difficult, and fatal, medical condition that keeps her from basic duties. At that time she might step aside for Charles, but even that is questionable.

Thinking about potential medical problems does present a possible reason for Benedict stepping down now. If doctors have discussed his situation with him (regardless of what it might be) there may have been decisions that it was wise to step down.

That would allow Benedict to have some influence in his successor, but that might not be a good thing. Benedict was not successful (in the eyes of non-Catholics) in addressing the rape of children in the Church. I believe the Church needs someone who will address this problem in a major way.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

Not all Catholics believe that the Pope is legit.

These break-aways are called sedevacantists (empty seat supporters)

Fr. O'Reilly On The Idea Of A Long-Term Vacancy Of The Holy See
http://www.sedevacantist.org/oreilly.html

Sedevacantism (derived from the Latin words sedes or "seat", and vacans or "vacant")[1]) is the position, held by a minority of Traditionalist Catholics,[2][3] that the present occupant of the papal see is not truly Pope and that, for lack of a valid Pope, the see has been vacant since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. A tiny number of these claim the vacancy actually goes back to the death of Pope Pius X in 1914.

Sedevacantists believe that Paul VI (1963–1978), John Paul I (1978), John Paul II (1978–2005) and Benedict XVI (since 2005) have been neither true Catholics nor true Popes, by virtue of allegedly having espoused the heresy of Modernism, or of having otherwise denied or contradicted solemnly defined Catholic dogmas. Some of them classify John XXIII (1958–1963) also as a Modernist antipope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 82):
These break-aways are called sedevacantists (empty seat supporters)

The odd thing is, they then go and elect their own Pope, and still call themselves sedevacantists in spite of the fact that they have filled the seat as they see it.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 80):
Because of the scope of sexual abuse of children in the Church the best we can hope for these days is allowing Priests to marry. When it is children who pay the price for celibacy then it's probably time to provide for unions that allow sex in a normal environment. (And, no, I am not eliminating gays - just pedophiles.)

Actually, there is noting scripturally that prevents this. And in the past priests have been married. This is required more as a discipline than anything, because the Church believes that marriage required faithful and total dedication to your spouse. Because priests are required to totally commit themselves to serving the church and their parish, the role of priest and husband often can conflict and it can be difficult to do both jobs, thus the church has required celibacy. What you are seeing is an huge increase in the Permanent Deaconite which is being filled mostly by married men. Whether or not the church will maintain this discipline or not going forward remains to be seen, but I suspect it will be in place for some time, especially now that the Theology of the Body is being taught more and more in the Church.

As for female priests, forget it, that will never happen because that is something that is scriptural. I don't have time to go into all the reasons here, but the Catholic Church does not believe it has the power to ordain women, which is why there has never been a woman ordained nor will there ever be, and in fact I know a boat load of female Catholics who would leave the church in a hurry if it ever happened. That does not prevent women from having a say in the teachings of the church, and in fact if you look at Catholic history, there have been many doctors of the church who have been women, and a lot of women have done very good things for the Catholic church. Mother Teresa immediately comes to mind.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Leo XIII looked cool (1896)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzLduvnW-FA

  

[Edited 2013-02-11 13:15:58]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4245 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
Old age, a nice pension and a villa in the sun somewhere.

His lack of action on the sexual abuse of children by the RC church suggests a less comfortable retirement might be more appropriate. He has alot of explaining to do on this file.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 7):
Maybe he 'saw the light' and became a protestant.

One can only hope.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 23):
The Roman Catholic Church, and some others, have a major problem, and hopefully this action will make dealing with that problem easier in the future.

A less rigid RC pope is needed for sure.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 35):
I doubt a black pope would be a problem in itself, with fewer and fewer westerners willing to live the priesthood (or able, since now homosexuality is forbidden even if non "practiced" ), you see imported priests from Africa everywhere.

It's arguably time for a pope from outside Europe. Millions of RC's are converting to Protestantism in Latin America: a pope from LA may help reverse that trend.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 74):
But as for his years in office, he ruled the catholic church with an intense determination to further entrench the ugly authoritarian ideology of the past, making just tactical attempts to appear conciliatory and open – which failed badly in several cases.

He contributed to making the catholic church an even more remote and more extreme fringe organisation which fewer and fewer people trust any more, not least due to all kinds of scandals which were almost universally handled very badly, with little regard for the respective victims.

Well said.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 80):
Benedict was not successful (in the eyes of non-Catholics) in addressing the rape of children in the Church.

Absolutely! He seemed to not care about this issue.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 80):
I believe the Church needs someone who will address this problem in a major way.

It's unlikely.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineiakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 35
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 75):
But focusing on Ratzinger, it is him and only him that bothered me from the start given his Nazi Youth background,

A little bit of confusion here, membership to the Hitler Jugend was mandatory by law since 1933 for boys between 14 and 18 (even against parent's consent). By 1939 they were 8 millions.
Not much to do with "being" a nazi, even some resistance figures were members. (the White Rose)

Talk about stereotypes...


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 85):
Absolutely! He seemed to not care about this issue.

Do Catholics care ? They seem to care far more about gay marriage, that's for sure.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8320 posts, RR: 9
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 83):
Because priests are required to totally commit themselves to serving the church and their parish, the role of priest and husband often can conflict and it can be difficult to do both jobs, thus the church has required celibacy.

The problem with that approach is that it has led to widespread rape of children. It is pretty easy to not worry about any affair a priest may have with an adult. Go to confession and you're done. Children are a totally different situation and these days the various laws around the states (as well as other countries).

These days the Church has to look at the problems caused by celibacy rules and they have to look at the costs (punishment) established by juries. Continuation of celibacy rules will lead to a continuation of raping of children and that is not acceptable.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting iakobos (Reply 86):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 75):
But focusing on Ratzinger, it is him and only him that bothered me from the start given his Nazi Youth background,

A little bit of confusion here, membership to the Hitler Jugend was mandatory by law since 1933 for boys between 14 and 18 (even against parent's consent). By 1939 they were 8 millions.
Not much to do with "being" a nazi, even some resistance figures were members. (the White Rose)

Talk about stereotypes...

Since you're making the case of there are Good Nazis and Bad Nazi Youth, the good ones or the ones that repent are acceptable to lord over the Vatican. I guess no resume is necessary. Why not a Muslim Cleric? Oh...he's worse than the apologetic or unintentional or drafted Nazi..because, well he's a muslim.

Yes, I am admitting to stereotyping this ONE Man for this ONE Postion.. because it is a position to be held by best possible candidate to preside over billions who believe that faith.

That's a flaw that can be over looked for chief of police (???) postmaster general... I guess he could make it into the US Sanate - I mean ex-KKK'er Robert Byrd made it happen.

But a ex-Nazi as President of the US???.... or any nation (see Kurt Walheim above and how he was treated because of it)

But Pope, due to it's sole purpose regarding the Catholic faith? I guess anyone is eligible...just apologize and you're good to go.

But whatever you do...just don't be a woman or a ethnic minority.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-11 14:25:36]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

The BBC has put together a nicely tabbed collection of relevant info regarding the Pope's resignation:

Pope Benedict XVI to resign citing poor health

Any speculation on what the major issues the new Pope will face in the next couple of decades? Which issues would you like the Vatican resolve over that period and with what results?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 88):

The problem with that approach is that it has led to widespread rape of children. It is pretty easy to not worry about any affair a priest may have with an adult. Go to confession and you're done. Children are a totally different situation and these days the various laws around the states (as well as other countries).

These days the Church has to look at the problems caused by celibacy rules and they have to look at the costs (punishment) established by juries. Continuation of celibacy rules will lead to a continuation of raping of children and that is not acceptable.

We don't know whether or not the celibacy rules caused these problems or not? What we do know is that there was a big problem in the church and the church has taken several steps to address it. One is that in the US, Virtus training is now required for all people who have a responsibility dealing with Children. The second thing is that two deep leadership is now required, meaning that if the church is sponsoring a childrens event, there must be two adults present and that no adult may be present alone with a child. One other thing that happened that did not get a lot of press is that Archbishop Gomez in the LA Diocese has basically banned his predecessor Roger Mahoney from having any responsibilties within his diocese. That is unprecendented.

One last thing is the Church has realized that a lot of the problems with the sex scandals and even with some controversial issues in the church today have been caused by a lack of proper Catechism. The church has taken many steps to address this, but much of it is coming now from the laity, and the Laity are taking a bigger role in the church today.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 92, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 89):
But Pope, due to it's sole purpose regarding the Catholic faith? I guess anyone is eligible...just apologize and you're good to go.

Apologize for what?

He was 6 when Hitler rose to power, 14 when he was drafted into Hitler Youth, 18 when war was over.
When those people at Yad Vashem don't object his past then why do you? What do you expect from him? That he has to be as heroic as Sophie or Hans Scholl (hence get killed by Nazis) to be eligible to become Pope, head of a church that preaches forgiveness?

I don't exactly like Mr. Ratzinger or Pope Benedict. But you seem to be priggish finger pointer, really.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4105 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Do we really need this much media attention when a cult leader hangs up his dress and giant napkin hat?

Fred


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 94, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4097 times:




New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4280 posts, RR: 52
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 89):
Since you're making the case of there are Good Nazis and Bad Nazi Youth, the good ones or the ones that repent are acceptable to lord over the Vatican. I guess no resume is necessary. Why not a Muslim Cleric? Oh...he's worse than the apologetic or unintentional or drafted Nazi..because, well he's a muslim.Yes, I am admitting to stereotyping this ONE Man for this ONE Postion.. because it is a position to be held by best possible candidate to preside over billions who believe that faith.That's a flaw that can be over looked for chief of police (???) postmaster general... I guess he could make it into the US Sanate - I mean ex-KKK'er Robert Byrd made it happen.But a ex-Nazi as President of the US???.... or any nation (see Kurt Walheim above and how he was treated because of it) But Pope, due to it's sole purpose regarding the Catholic faith? I guess anyone is eligible...just apologize and you're good to go.But whatever you do...just don't be a woman or a ethnic minority.BN747


This isn't a case of anybody saying there are good Nazis and bad Nazis. This is about a government forcing all children into an organisation and whether or not he ever became a willing participant in it. There is no evidence that he was.

Pope Benedict's family never joined the regime and brought him up against it. As stated, all boys were required to be members of the Hitler Youth--it does not make them Nazis. Some of them undoubtedly were. But there is absolutely no evidence to say Joseph Ratzinger or his family were ever involved in the Nazi regime--in fact the evidence points in the exact opposite direction.

While I agree that Ratzinger was not a good choice for Pope, I think you are completely overreacting to his youth. Ratzinger has many things to answer for and there are many reasons to disagree with him. Why he was forced to join and participate in a group that his family despised but the government mandated is not one of them.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4062 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4096 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I do wish him well, but I am glad he is leaving. I feel that we should help the poor and heal the sick first, and worry about the eternal salvation of their soul second, but I believe Benedict is going about it the other way, as evidence is his issue with the nuns.

He has stacked up the conclave with cardinals who share his belief, so I don''t expect a major upheaval, but one can always hope.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 97, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4079 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 93):
Do we really need this much media attention when a cult leader hangs up his dress and giant napkin hat?

You can be as disrespectful as you like, but it does not change the fact that the Pope is a globally influential figure (and no, I am not a Catholic). Of course it is newsworthy.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2439 posts, RR: 14
Reply 98, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

Holy smokes! http://imgur.com/gallery/DFNIR9k



David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 99, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 59):
Also, there is no reason for the Queen to abdicate in the first place. She is in good shape on the whole

Remember that her mother was in quite good health on her 100th birthday. Apparently still in good mental health.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 59):
, and we do not have a particularly strong tradition of abdication,

Really. But that's how Elizabeth got to be Queen in the first place - when her uncle abdicated and put her father on the throne.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 58):
Chuck is next in line, the only way William becomes King after Elizabeth is if Chuck abdicates in favour of Willie .

Not that I wish him anything bad - but if 64 year old Prince Charles should die before his mother - Andrew becomes the next King, with Beatrice the next in line for the throne.

William and Kate become part of the various minor royals.

Quoting apodino (Reply 63):
I am a little disappointed by the name calling and hate toward this man. Was the man perfect? No. Was he a sinner? Yes, but we all are sinners. But I believe that the man worked tirelessly for peace and for the dignity of human life, and I am glad that he served the Catholic Church so well these past few years.

  


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 100, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 99):
Really. But that's how Elizabeth got to be Queen in the first place - when her uncle abdicated and put her father on the throne.

Yes, really. It was a MASSIVE deal precisely because it was so incredibly rare.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 101, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 87):
They seem to care far more about gay marriage, that's for sure.


Really?...I could care less about gay marriage...fact is I'm sick of hearing about it. And tired of the abortion thing as well. They are nothing more than political tennis balls whose design is to go back and forth across the net for political gain.

I would think the reality of mortality would have the Pope feeling closer to his calling rather than "resigning from the post". Sort of disappointed in the man. I'll be an optimist though...we still have Nancy Pelosi whose large over inflated bobble head would neatly fill that over sized napkin fold of a hat one has to wear as a Pope.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 102, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 99):
Not that I wish him anything bad - but if 64 year old Prince Charles should die before his mother - Andrew becomes the next King, with Beatrice the next in line for the throne.

William and Kate become part of the various minor royals.

Not true. Once Charles had sons, that put his children ahead of Andrew in the line of succession.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2885 posts, RR: 8
Reply 103, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3):
Old age, a nice pension and a villa in the sun somewhere.

Hey, and don't forget to add a couple of nice young choir boys to act as "companions" to His Holiness      

[Edited 2013-02-11 16:42:12]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6722 posts, RR: 12
Reply 104, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 101):
Really?...I could care less about gay marriage...fact is I'm sick of hearing about it. And tired of the abortion thing as well. They are nothing more than political tennis balls whose design is to go back and forth across the net for political gain.

Are you catholic ? There was a big demonstration (~500 000 people) recently against gay marriage in Paris. It was supposedly non partisan and non religious but you could clearly recognize a mainly right wing catholic crowd (not extreme right/fundamentalist catholics, those were banned from the main demonstration and made their own separate one). No muslims in sight even if they certainly don't approve of homosexuality.

No demonstration of any kind denouncing raping priests.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 101):
I would think the reality of mortality would have the Pope feeling closer to his calling rather than "resigning from the post". Sort of disappointed in the man.

The reality of his utter powerlessness made him realize that resigning would prevent his opponents from scheming in his back.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 105, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 95):
I think you are completely overreacting to his youth.

Perhaps, I'm just simply stating that maybe people like him and his family 'polished up their histories' immediately after the war, does anyone here have any original unaltered Ratzinger family documentation written prior to 1939 to match up against anything say 10 years after the war?

..no, so we are left to take him or his brother at their word. Sorry not good enough for me, as I said earlier I don't know how many rounds

from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Ratzinger

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[14]

—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[15]

In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.(BN747 question) close cousin, distant never met cousin..who? was this added in for sympathy points

[16] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).

[15] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.

[17] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.

[18] As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.



So clearly he was not the little boys scout kid that many here are trying to make him out to be. Did he shoot at or kill any allied troops while in infantry? We don't know. His history here is as if he just sat by a camp fire roasting weinersnitzels waiting for the war to end. He very well could have been the murderer of one of your grandfathers in WWII. You don't know...I don't know.

He was elected by the papal conclave after four balloting rounds, meaning he either lobbied for it as he said "At a certain point, I prayed to God 'please don't do this to me'...Evidently, this time He didn't listen to me."

I personally don't a word of that nonsense.. but whatever.


At anytime he could have removed himself from contention (esp. due to his past) , nothing was stopping him.

So yes, I say a man with integrity and his background would have elected to refuse consideration as Pope. He got the job..and did what with it? Nothing but ante up more antagonism.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25401 posts, RR: 85
Reply 106, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3946 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 80):
I doubt if Elizabeth will step down unless she is suffering a difficult, and fatal, medical condition that keeps her from basic duties. At that time she might step aside for Charles, but even that is questionable.

  

Even if it were to happen, Queen Elizabeth could not choose her successor. That was decided, long ago, by Act of Parliament.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 99):
Not that I wish him anything bad - but if 64 year old Prince Charles should die before his mother - Andrew becomes the next King, with Beatrice the next in line for the throne.

Sorry, no. It descends through the direct line, primogeniture. Presently, it runs Charles, William, Harry, but the moment William's child is born it becomes Charles, William, William's Child, Harry.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-11 17:57:42]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13634 posts, RR: 62
Reply 107, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3935 times:
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Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Shame on you for trying to paint him as a Nazi when he was obviously anything but a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.
You don't know that!

And you don't know either. Prove he wasn't just a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.

Or does innocent until proven guilty not resonate with you?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 54):
Quoting Stabilator (Reply 47):I believe enrolment in the the Hitler Youth program was compulsory.
Why read up on it..I never said it wasn't. Nor do I care.

Ha! That's a laugh. Apparently you do care, and quite a bit.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 108, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

Yep...I am Catholic. So.....? To be Catholic doesn't require one to be far right, doesn't require anything really 'cept faith of something that is potentially bigger and greater than yourself. Same with the Jewish faith or any other religion. What I have gotten out of it is that everyone I believe to be level headed, clear thinking individuals who have a right to their personal space, their personal opinions and so do I. In short, a live and let live philosophy. If your a guy and like doing other guys...have at it. Your a woman that prefers other women...have at it. If your a pregnant young lady and you have selected to terminate the potential of giving birth to the child...It is your body, you're conscious decision, it is your right...no one else's. Do I think Heaven or Hell exists?...who would know for sure cept those that are dead already. Don't know that it does...don't know that it doesn't and either does anyone else here...agnostic or not. The world is full of the walking dead and plenty of evil folks. The world is full of great aspects as well, nature for one. Hurricane sandy, winter storm Nemo...I like that stuff... even when it costs me $$$. Nature gets furious sometimes and so it is nature that dictates too me what is natural and what is not. Guys bonin guys isn't natural but if that is what gets you off, don't let my Catholicism get in your way. Just don't expect me to attend your wedding with a check in hand and don't expect me to attend your adopted child's Baptism. There exist bad and good Nuns, Priests, Rabbis, Imams. Just seems today everything is predicated on false realities. Now that the Pope, God forbid a white Anglo, is stepping aside now the push for the first black Pope will be on the table. It won't be an issue about who is best suitable to assume the role, it will be a decision based on politics. That is the crap I can't stand. Let the best man win...not the best color. Not a good Catholic attitude eh?...but what the hay...global warming is upon us so we will all roast together. The hell with it!

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 109, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 107):
And you don't know either. Prove he wasn't just a kid caught up in a war he wanted nothing to do with.

In war time 1939, a 14year old was no kid, he certainly wasn't when he was 17 and fighting in the infantry.
Just as many of our 16 and 17 years lied to get in and fight. They grew up quickly.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 107):

Or does innocent until proven guilty not resonate with you?

Now, muster up the guts to say that about Christopher Dorner... I bet you can't without tacking some canceling verbiage to tag on to make you feel attached that right corner.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-11 19:29:55]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 110, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 109):
In war time 1939, a 14year old was no kid,

Yes he was. Or do you think in August 1993 he was a kid and in September 1939 he was a grown up able to reflect what is going on?
Besides, in 1939 he was only 12.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 109):
he certainly wasn't when he was 17 and fighting in the infantry.

To my knowledge he wasn't fighting in the infantry. His training began in December 1944, then he deserted leaving his barrack not a battlefield, then he became a POW, in May 1945 the war was over.
And if he did fight: There was war, Germany was ruled by a dictator. What do you expect from him?
I had asked you the same question before:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 92):
When those people at Yad Vashem don't object his past then why do you? What do you expect from him? That he has to be as heroic as Sophie or Hans Scholl (hence get killed by Nazis) to be eligible to become Pope, head of a church that preaches forgiveness?
Quoting BN747 (Reply 109):
Now, muster up the guts to say that about Christopher Dorner...

What does the Pope - or the 6,14 or 18 year-old Mr. Ratzinger for that matter - to do with Christopher Dorner for crying out loud? I think you are seriously off the rocker - really!

Quoting BN747 (Reply 105):
He very well could have been the murderer of one of your grandfathers in WWII. You don't know...I don't know.

Definition of MURDER
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

Does a soldier commit unlawful killings with malice aforethought?

With that said: Maybe you have killed somebody when you were 17! Prove you didn't.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 111, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 110):



Clearly you deny the article from wikipedia about him...feel free to post your own source backing you up
and not written by his brother or any other admirers...

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 112, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 111):
Clearly you deny the article from wikipedia about him

Not at all, why?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 111):
feel free to post your own source backing you up

You should back up what you have said so far.
But at your service: This article wasn't exactly written by a Ratzinger fanboy:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/ratzi...gend-nett-lieb-blond-a-352834.html
The article clearly states that he did not have to fight.

You still did not answer my question:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 110):
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 92):
When those people at Yad Vashem don't object his past then why do you? What do you expect from him? That he has to be as heroic as Sophie or Hans Scholl (hence get killed by Nazis) to be eligible to become Pope, head of a church that preaches forgiveness?

What you say, BN747, is: Germans who grew up during WWII and the Shoa are not to be trusted! No one of them if they were they were forcibly drafted into one the dictatorship's criminal organizations! Even if they had been minors back then, then we still can't trust them decades later. And when they get elected into a high ranking position sixty years later, then the election is damnable.
That, BN747, is by itself misanthropic.

And that's why you are no better person than Mr. Ratzinger.

[Edited 2013-02-11 20:44:55]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 113, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3821 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 108):
Do I think Heaven or Hell exists?...who would know for sure cept those that are dead already. Don't know that it does...don't know that it doesn't

While I don't mean to attack your faith, per the RCC it is fundamental Catholic doctrine that you *must* accept the existence of heaven *and* hell. Mind you I don't care one whit what you call yourself, but the RCC divides these things into two categories: orthodoxy and error, and a lack of certainty about heaven and hell would fall into the later category.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13137 posts, RR: 15
Reply 114, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

One has to wonder if he has a much more serious physical disease. He has been having problems walking, advised not to make long trips anymore. He may have any number of problems from muscular, bone joint, heart, etc, maybe even cancer. That all could make it difficult to maintain his public schedule, even fully conduct the Mass. Consider that he saw the terrible pain and suffering of John Paul II, that by removing himself, he can spare the church a lot of trouble with a long slide to death and a weak papacy.

Then there is the growing record of his participation in the cover up of pedophile priests, financial scandals and of conflicts of his conservative views vs. a growing majority of Catholics. Perhaps a combination of both his declining health and the growing parade of scandal is chasing him out.

I grew up RC, but pretty much in recent years, moved away from the Church for a variety of personal reasons. As much as I disagree with Benedict XVI's views of the church and policy, I don't like the name calling, the constant linking of him being a 'good Nazi', but I have no problem with raising questions and evidence with the crimes, indeed mortal sins, he commited.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 115, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 114):
Then there is the growing record of his participation in the cover up of pedophile priests, financial scandals and of conflicts of his conservative views vs. a growing majority of Catholics. Perhaps a combination of both his declining health and the growing parade of scandal is chasing him out.

Those are my thoughts, too. Plus, he seems to understand that he is unable to change any of those things you have listed.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 116, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3797 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 112):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 111):
feel free to post your own source backing you up

You should back up what you have said so far.
But at your service: This article wasn't exactly written by a Ratzinger fanboy:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/ratzi...gend-nett-lieb-blond-a-352834.html
The article clearly states that he did not have to fight.

The Article was entirely German, I don't know how accurate Google Translation is..but here it is..

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/ratzi...gend-nett-lieb-blond-a-352834.html

A Hitler Youth on the Chair of Peter? Massacre of Jews in the eyes of the future Benedict XVI.? The associations that the British press tries to give after the election of a German pope of their readers are, violently. Witnesses paint a different picture of his childhood and youth of the pontiff.

Anni Fischer lights a candle in her apartment for Benedict XVI. to: "I hope that the Cardinals him a lot of work"
Dominik Baur

Anni Fischer lights a candle in her apartment for Benedict XVI. to: "I hope that the Cardinals him a lot of work"
Hamburg - The Selbertinger Anni, the course is not long since Selbertinger because they got married over 50 years ago, can still remember the young Joseph Ratzinger. Finally, it is the only surviving market activist who could witness the first steps of the new pope in the world. But, stop, of steps can really be no question. "They never left him on the ground," says Anni Fischer today. "He was allowed to play with us." Always have Maria Ratzinger, the mother of little Joseph, carried her son in her arms, while the other neighborhood kids were raging around them. "I have not even allowed to touch him."

.... apparently the British Press roasted having a former Nazi helm the Papalcy as well...

A seet cuddly article that leaves a neutral observer to draw their own conclusions...I'll stick to mine... he should have declined the job period.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 112):

What you say, BN747, is: Germans who grew up during WWII and the Shoa are not to be trusted!

You said that, I said this:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 75):
Once a Nazi, always a Nazi? No.

Except for the guys in South America..them? Yes.


I'm solely targeting Ratzinger, but I'm sure my 6th grade Teacher Mrs Durnberger was a Nazi - jeez, I can sill see her face how she longed for the good ol' days.

I have but the greatest respect for how the German People have handled the post Nazi era. They don't shrink from it or hide from it or suppress it and pretend it didn't happen as do the Japanese.

Now UFO, want to continuing lying or put it in reverse.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 112):

And that's why you are no better person than Mr. Ratzinger.

Really? Well I'd like to think if I was forced to service with an evil group like the Nazi-led Hitler Youth, I'd have join the ranks of those who refused by joining a resistance underground org. or abandoning/deserting just as many other (smarter) Germans did than do as Ratzinger did. If serving in what was obviously a extremely hateful organization as that one is admirable to you..then yes, he is better in your eyes.

And had I been him and did serve with Hitler Youth, I'd hope as an adult I certainly deem myself as not being worthy of being named Pope.

Your der Spiegel Headline when you hit the english link.

Church in Crisis: Pope Benedict Polarized More Than Unified

That pretty counts as a failure... I think what's going on with you UFO, you're taking a hit to German Pride over this guy, how you pen me as blaming all Germans is rather disingenuous and false isn't it?

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 117, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
The Article was entirely German,

You could simply trust me when I say that the article states that Ratzinger did not have to fight.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
Church in Crisis: Pope Benedict Polarized More Than Unified

That pretty counts as a failure...

Yes, I think he failed. See reply #155 among others.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
I think what's going on with you UFO, you're taking a hit to German Pride over this guy,

Huh? I don't even like that guy; I've said so a couple of times already. I have never felt something like 'German pride', let alone when thinking of Mr. Ratzinger! I am not in the game to fight for Mr. Ratzinger. I am taken aback over your reasoning.
  

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
how you pen me as blaming all Germans is rather disingenuous and false isn't it?


Well you do say that Germans who were forcibly enrolled into a Nazi organization must not become Pope - and that goes for all Germans that did not join a resistance group. So you do blame nearly all Germans who lived through the Nazi era of being morally unsuited for a morally high ranking office.

80 years after the Nazis came to power in Germany, knowing well what happened, it is now easy to say that you'd have joined the underground. It is something totally different to actually do so, particularly when you are still a minor like the 14- or 17-year old Ratzinger was!
It is much more appropriate to say that when millions behaved like they did that you and I would not have been better.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15778 posts, RR: 27
Reply 118, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

I'll admit that I don't have any really strong feelings on Ratzinger. The church's handling of molestation is appalling, but that went way beyond him.

Mostly I'm intrigued by the double standard applied to the stigma of being an ex-Nazi. I don't get how people can be so bent out of shape about Benny 16's unremarkable time as a Hitler youth and member of the German military or the (almost) naming of a new stadium for Allianz while happily buying many other German products not to mention cheering loudly as ex-Nazis and their technology formed the driving force behind the space race. We have no problem listening to songs by former drug dealers and barely a week ago celebrating the retirement of a football player who was probably involved in a double homicide.

I don't want to sound like I'm endorsing Nazi ideology, but I think it's silly to keep holding these grudges because you're going to have to be mad at a lot of people and it will cause more problems than it solves. It's not like there aren't actual, practicing white supremacists to have a problem with anyway. Go be mad at them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21484 posts, RR: 53
Reply 119, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3758 times:



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 79):
FYI-According to the Malachy predictions,the beginning of the end with the last Pope will be Peter the Roman.That happens now.

Will see how right that is.Stay tune.

What we will see is yet another religious prophecy failing the smell test even after being upated many times to fit all kinds of prior occasions. Wasn't this particular prophecy applied to when Benedict had been elected? And before that to John Paul II, and his predecessor before him...?

According to christian fanatics the end of times was supposed to happen within the first century, at the end of the first millenium and at hundreds of other points in time in between and since. This kind of thing is just rubbish – and that includes similar prophecies from all other religions as well.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 98):
Holy smokes! http://imgur.com/gallery/DFNIR9k

Nice find!  bigthumbsup 
So, did he actually win the lottery...?
 

Quoting BN747 (Reply 105):
Perhaps, I'm just simply stating that maybe people like him and his family 'polished up their histories' immediately after the war, does anyone here have any original unaltered Ratzinger family documentation written prior to 1939 to match up against anything say 10 years after the war?

You seem to have a rather skewed image of how people lived under the nazi regime. While it is not inconceivable that in his family some less than honourable deeds may have been swept under the rug somewhere, your insistent claims that Ratzinger himself absolutely had to be a war criminal himself appear highly implausible from all that's known.

Catholics and other religious people were generally considered suspect at the time since it put them outside of the quasi-religious nazi ideology.

As you can see above I am probably one of the last people to defend him, but your particular attacks on him lack any plausible substance in context with the actual situation back then, with his youth and with his conduct since then.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
.... apparently the British Press roasted having a former Nazi helm the Papalcy as well...

A seet cuddly article that leaves a neutral observer to draw their own conclusions...I'll stick to mine... he should have declined the job period.

Rubbish. Large parts of the british press are notoriously rabid and populist when it's about anything connected with Germany. I often get the impression that the only place where WWII never really ended appears to be England.

The article was about yet another puzzling outbreak of that obsession back when Benedict was elected.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
Well I'd like to think if I was forced to service with an evil group like the Nazi-led Hitler Youth, I'd have join the ranks of those who refused by joining a resistance underground org. or abandoning/deserting just as many other (smarter) Germans did than do as Ratzinger did.

You're likely deluding yourself if you believe growing up then and there and being confronted with the terrifying reality of the time that would actually have been as easy as you imagine it to be from today's perspective.

[Edited 2013-02-11 22:50:40]

User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11718 posts, RR: 15
Reply 120, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3745 times:

As a Protestant, this is all very fascinating to me. In my American Business class today, the professor alluded to the fact that, in the past 2000 years, every pope has been a white guy. But, the followers of the Catholic church are from all over the world and both genders. So, maybe the pope should be non-white at least? Sounds reasonable to me.

Benedict XVI did not make me want to follow the goings on in the Catholic church. John Paul II did. Maybe they need to vote someone in who is charismatic and can relate to everyone?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 121, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3733 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 120):
As a Protestant, this is all very fascinating to me. In my American Business class today, the professor alluded to the fact that, in the past 2000 years, every pope has been a white guy. But, the followers of the Catholic church are from all over the world and both genders. So, maybe the pope should be non-white at least? Sounds reasonable to me.

A few news articles I read alluded that an Asian or African pope may actually happen this conclave.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6348 posts, RR: 31
Reply 122, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3719 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 121):
A few news articles I read alluded that an Asian or African pope may actually happen this conclave.

I don´t think so. The Asian Cardinal is kind of isolated and the African one has proved too controversial. He has antagonized other religions repeatedly and is a fringe guy of sorts. It´s probably going to be an Italian.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11718 posts, RR: 15
Reply 123, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3711 times:

For the sake of my question, what if the next pope is named Bob Smith? What will his papal name be? Joseph? I don't understand how that works.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 122):
It´s probably going to be an Italian.

Could he be from Central or South America? They have a very loyal Catholic following.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 124, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3709 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 119):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
Well I'd like to think if I was forced to service with an evil group like the Nazi-led Hitler Youth, I'd have join the ranks of those who refused by joining a resistance underground org. or abandoning/deserting just as many other (smarter) Germans did than do as Ratzinger did.

You're likely deluding yourself if you believe growing up then and there and being confronted with the terrifying reality of the time that would actually have been as easy as you imagine it to be from today's perspective.

I would think that my legendary rebellious and non-conformist nature here would clue you in as to a little of my persona, in the cop thread across the board, I'd admittedly push the envelope quite often and was even quite the pain in the side of my Commanding officer while in the service. I've always been one to buck the trends.. we don't have a Hitler history here in the US, but we do have some seriously deranged and hate filled leaders, and I can tell you right now without question I would have gone to Canada than fight a George Bush war or any leader who gives you all the warning signs that they are not all together there. Maybe YOU wouldn't run or desert..but my very nature would compel me to. Being and man in my book is know when to fight a good fight and when to walk away from a bad one.

And let's be clear about a fight, a fight is a fight, whether with fist, a stick, a pipe, a knife or a gun. The intent is the harm the other guy once you're in it. And I've been in my fair share.. I can safely and assuredly say..I have no problem being a part of a fight worth fighting and certainly won't partake in a bad one..your leader is clear indicator of which category that is.

Hitler gave all the signs he was a bad egg just as some of our wannabee leaders give off the same vibe that they are trouble..'the let's bomb Iran crowd = that kind of trouble.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-11 23:47:06]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 125, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3707 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 123):

For the sake of my question, what if the next pope is named Bob Smith? What will his papal name be? Joseph?

The Pope chooses his own papal name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_c...nclave#Acceptance_and_proclamation



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6348 posts, RR: 31
Reply 126, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3709 times:
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Quoting seb146 (Reply 123):
Could he be from Central or South America? They have a very loyal Catholic following.

42% of the world´s Catholics are in Latin America. Most are in Brazil and Mexico. But given the penchant of the Churcth to go against common sense, I highly doubt that after more than 30 years of there not being an Italian Pope, they´ll allow it again. I´m pretty sure it´s going to be the Italian guy from Milan.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 127, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 126):
I´m pretty sure it´s going to be the Italian guy from Milan.

Georgio Armani?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6348 posts, RR: 31
Reply 128, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3701 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 127):
Georgio Armani?

Good one. But no. Although a lot of people in the Vatican would love to see Armani (or maybe just the male models) walking around, the name of the guy is Angelo Scola, who is currently the Archbishop of Milan.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 129, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3683 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 124):
and I can tell you right now without question I would have gone to Canada than fight a George Bush war or any leader who gives you all the warning signs that they are not all together there.

Yes, as a 30- or 40-something with a little money to spend, you would board a plane or train to Canada or would drive your car across the border.
And as a 14- or 17-year old living in Germany in 1941 or 1944 you would do exactly what? Board the next flight to Stockholm? Wait for the next train to Zurich? If anything, and provided his family had enough money, Ratzinger could have left Germany before war broke out - aged 12. And where exactly can you join the underground when you are 14 or 17?

Besides, the moral compass of the average Joe 80 years ago differed from the same Joe today who is 'all together there'. Trust in authority, even blind obedience was much more prevalent than it is today. Same goes for racism. Unbeknownst to yourself, your non-conformist nature could even be a result of lessons learned from Germany's Nazi past.

[Edited 2013-02-12 00:25:19]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 130, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Popes can resign

Procedure

The Canon Law of the Catholic Church mentions papal resignation in Canon 332, where it states:
If it should happen that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office (munus), it is required for validity that he make the resignation freely and that it be duly manifested, but not that it be accepted by anyone.[4]

Canon law does not specify any particular individual or body or people to whom the pope must manifest his resignation, but some commentators (notably 18th-century canonist Lucius Ferraris) hold that the College of Cardinals or at least its Dean must be informed, since the cardinals must be absolutely certain that the Pope has renounced the dignity before they can validly proceed to elect a successor.[5][3]

History

read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_resignation

  


Lightning strikes St Peter's Basilica as Pope resigns

A sign from above?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LaZdmeV56PU

 Wow!  alert 

[Edited 2013-02-12 00:47:04]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 131, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3660 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 130):
Popes can resign

No offence, but I think we all figured that out.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 132, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 129):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 124):
and I can tell you right now without question I would have gone to Canada than fight a George Bush war or any leader who gives you all the warning signs that they are not all together there.

Yes, as a 30- or 40-something with a little money to spend, you would board a plane or train to Canada or would drive your car across the border.
And as a 14- or 17-year old living in Germany in 1941 or 1944 you would do exactly what? Board the next flight to Stockholm? Wait for the next train to Zurich? If anything, and provided his family had enough money, Ratzinger could have left Germany before war broke out - aged 12. And where exactly can you join the underground when you are 14 or 17?

OMG you are so delusional... have you ever hitchhike as a kid, I look back and it wasn't the greatest idea but I never feared doing it at time. There's be no 'little money' with me leaving (in my 30s-40s) and actually I'd prefer Mexico (Southern Oaxaca) over Canada (I said that earlier because that's 'the war refuge of choice for America). In your Germany scenario, I guess I'd be Ratzinger in your story and just do what he did because I'm 'conditioned to follow the der fuhrer' (wasn't that the case)? But as I said I'd prefer to have had my attitude I had here as a 14yo...rebellious, I'm sure some German kids rebelled or did they all 'just fall in line as you suggest' and do as their told? Even the poor kids? What about the street kids? Gypsy beggar kids? There's always been bands of street kids...did Hitler cart them off too?

I'd put my money on a 12 year old from 1939 versus your average spoiled defenseless 18 or 19 year in any 2013 Western 1st world average country in a heart beat ... when it comes down to raw survival and street smarts. I say average because although most inner city kids are poor, they have the necessary rough edges to survive like a wild animal - just like kids in less fortunate places like the Favelas of Rio de Janiero.. now those kids I wouldn't bet against anyone on earth. You may call them thieves or whatever, but they are survivalists of the highest order.

Back to 1939, maybe kids of established families didn't live the survivalist life, but I assure you the poor did.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 129):
Besides, the moral compass of the average Joe 80 years ago differed from the same Joe today who is 'all together there'. Trust in authority, even blind obedience was much more prevalent than it is today.

True , again, that wholly depends on one's economic status. The well off and middle class were expected to maintain family honor become officers and serve...( today's upper and middle kids give that notion the middle finger) and the poor have to fight for them. The mindset of the poor kids hasn't changed at all..they were survivalist then as they are now.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 129):
Unbeknownst to yourself, your non-conformist nature could even be a result of lessons learned from Germany's Nazi past.

Possibly, but humans in the young years are like puppies and dogs, they do need to be disciplined into structure acceptable behavior. .. I had some of that but 'questionable skeptical crowd' always caught my attention.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 129):

And where exactly can you join the underground when you are 14 or 17?

I'm 100% certain the underground used kids just like they used nuns to employ the strategies of subterfuge against the Nazis. Check it out.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-12 01:51:41]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 133, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 131):
I think we all figured that out.

We all know Popes can resign. However I added the text documenting how/why Popes can resign.

There was already rumours circulating in 2011 in Italy and Switzerland that Pope Benny was going to step down.

UNGROUNDED THE RUMORS OF THE POPE'S RESIGNATION IN 2012
25 SET 2011

(AGI) Freiburg - The speculation that Benedict XVI will resign in 2012, when he turns 85, is "wholly ungrounded". This is the opinion of the high-ranking authorities in the Pope's retinue during his trip in Germany. The article published today on the front page of 'Libero', written by the writer and journalist Antonio Socci is, among other things, in contrast with the Pope's own request for prayers to sustain him in his mission that the Pontiff repeatedly addressed to believers worldwide and that he recalled once again to the 100,000 German Catholics participating in the mass that he celebrated on the grounds of the Freiburg airport.

Pope Historic resignation:
"I am leaving. I have got no more strength"

http://www.agi.it/english-version/wo..._of_the_pope_s_resignation_in_2012

Pope: here is why he has resigned
"I am really tired Will you excuse me"

http://www.agi.it/estero/notizie/201...o_xvi_si_dimette_sono_molto_stanco

I hope he will keep his iPad with a Twitter account and give news of his heath and new activities to the world.

  

Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria is one of the top contenders for being the next Pope

Arinze was one of the principal advisors to Pope John Paul II, and was considered papabile before the 2005 papal conclave, which elected Benedict XVI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Arinze

As in every new election, they say it's the Holy Spirit who will designate the next Pope.

 Confused

[Edited 2013-02-12 01:35:24]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 134, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 132):
OMG you are so delusional... have you ever hitchhike as a kid

Who did have a private car back then? Where do you get your fuel from in wartimes? Do you have an idea how Germany (and its roads) looked like when Ratzinger was send to the infantry training camp (December 1944)?
The only safe neighboring country was Switzerland. Positive they would let you in? As far as I know, Switzerland closed its borders in 1942.
And you think I'm delusional?

Edit:

I forgot: A general mobilization normally means that the respective country closes its border, else you could forget about your general mobilization. There wasn't a general mobilization in the USA during the Iraq war in 2003.

[Edited 2013-02-12 02:26:20]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2439 posts, RR: 14
Reply 135, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 119):
So, did he actually win the lottery...?

I don't know. But I'm sure he has a retirement savings account somewhere.  


Another small controversy not covered yet in this thread... the PhD thesis of Mr. Ratzinger. Back in 1985, Achim Schwarze, a German ghostwriter (who has experience in writing other people's PhD theses) had a look at the scientific works of the then-time German political and clerical elite.

He then brought out a highly amusing book, "Dünnbrettbohrer in Bonn. Aus den Dissertationen unserer Elite." ("Intellectual lightweights. From the dissertations of our elite."), with commented excerpts from various PhD theses.

Ratzinger's work was plain, ununderstandable gibberish to put it mildly.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

I want the next pope to be a gay black young female.

How's that for changing the catholic church (no capitalisation intended).



Cheers
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 137, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 116):
.... apparently the British Press roasted having a former Nazi helm the Papalcy as well...

So if I understand you correctly any and all Germans who were alive durning WW2 are Nazis, if that is your belief then you have a lot of growing up to do.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 138, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 136):
I want the next pope to be a gay black young female.
How's that for changing the catholic church (no capitalisation intended).

Not going to happen. There are a lot of new progressive churches that will agree with that and designate women gay bishops. You will find many but not the Roman Catholic church.

The successor will be another older conservative, could be African, Asian, South American or European.

List of Popes

This chronological list of popes corresponds to that given in the Annuario Pontificio under the heading "I Sommi Pontefici Romani" (The Supreme Pontiffs of Rome), excluding those that are explicitly indicated as antipopes. Published every year by the Roman Curia, the Annuario Pontificio attaches no consecutive numbers to the popes, stating that it is impossible to decide which side represented at various times the legitimate succession, in particular regarding Pope Leo VIII, Pope Benedict V and some mid-11th-century popes.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 139, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 138):
Quoting AF1624 (Reply 136):
I want the next pope to be a gay black young female.
How's that for changing the catholic church (no capitalisation intended).

Not going to happen.

Your irony detector needs a set of fresh batteries.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13137 posts, RR: 15
Reply 140, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

I notice a number of posters bringing up the participation 70 or so years ago in the Nazi military by the then Joseph Ratenzger. His brother, also a priest and a few years older than him most likely had to serve in the Nazi military. Many of us in the USA in particular knew of people or had older relatives who were members of he Nazi military or lived under their government and became good citizens, running businesses, worked hard. Let us also not forget some of them werr later tried and sent back to Germany for being officers or directly involved in atrocities. Many of us in the USA also know of their victims or fought against the Nazis including European Jews, Polish and Dutch and came to the USA as well as many relatives and neighbors who served in forces against the Nazis.

It is also ironic that the prior Pope, John Paul II, was a victim of Nazism and while he didn't participate directly in the resistance, I am quite sure he supported them, as well as helping to hide Jews, indeed as worked on becoming a priest during WWII, and could have been sent to a death camp just for those acts.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 141, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

My question now is when are the fundamentalist Islamic leaders and Imams going to resign? Will Ayatollah Khamenei and his counterparts have the courage to do the same thing as the Pope and leave their job?

If we think the Pope is conservative think about a number of fundamentalist Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere who have power over so many fanatical and dangerous people.

Some Catholics may have been a plague in the past with Crusades and the Inquisition but nowadays we don't see their f undamentalists putting women under awful clothing such as burqas, bombing office buildings and transport systems in rush hour and slaughtering innocent people in different places in the world.

Weigh and compare. This Pope may have a bad entourage but we have no proof as if he has really commited any crime. Also he never had any secular power or occupied any post in any government.

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 142, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.

Ratzinger was never papal material for multiple reasons. His handling of the worldwide sexual and physical abuse scandals proved that during his papacy.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 75):

I own nearly every piece of Nazi/WWII documentary produced by American and European companies focussing on the subject. The recent Rape of Europa (2 hours alone on the theft of valued Art Works by the Germans and Russians) is new favorite along with my all time favorite the German film 'Downfall' the last days of Adolph.

I really like the Rape of Europa too. Opened my eyes to a chapter I've never seen before.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 75):

If he was an atoned Nazi, he still has no business being a Pope.. he should have declined in the 1st round of voting in the conclave. If he had any integrity, he would have.

I am in agreement with you. Unfortunately my earlier words were not as diplomatic. It also seems like a lot of our German friends are very sensitive about the Nazi past, for good reason. I do not mean to provoke these sensitivities. But this man, there is something more to this.

He is no John Paul II.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 143, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

Lets hope a more modern man succeeeds him to the throne of St. Peter. Even if its different elsewhere, in Europe the Catholic Church is going through its direst days currently and stumbles from one crisis to another.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 27):
Ratzinger is old but he still has an incredible mind. What has shaken him? who can tell.

You can see that his physical health is frail. I think he doesnt want to be "exhibited" like his predecessor in his last years. Its a good idea to step down while you still can if you know its only getting worse.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

Why not? Certainly not a point in a biography to be proud of, that was compulsory in Germany back during that bad years, unavoidable. Members of the Hitler Youth werent automatically Nazis, even if the aim was to make them Nazis. Even the kids of fierce anti-Nazis had to join.
My family, being devoted catholics and as such also suffering from (though mild) oppression, was decidedly anti-Nazi, and my granddad did everything to prevent his kids to join the Hitler Youth, and he was lucky as he could claim to need my dad as a help on his farm. But Nazi neighbours found out, intervened and threatened to denounce him. In the end my dad though was only a member for a few months.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 144, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting na (Reply 143):
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
As a Jew, I say good riddance. I still can't figure out how someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth rose to such a position.

What will you say about Wernher von Braun -- one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in Nazi Germany -- who later became the essential mind and actor in the U.S. Space program after he migrated at the end of WWII?

von Braun was more than a forced member of the Hitler Youth (such as the Pope) yet he was accepted and lauded for his knowledge that permitted the development of rockets such as the Saturn V who brought the first Men on the Moon and much more.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 145, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 144):
What will you say about Wernher von Braun

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 146, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

Quoting na (Reply 143):
You can see that his physical health is frail.

Just seen this in La Stampa
Pope had to undergo heart surgery 3 months ago

Quote:
Poco meno di tre mesi fa papa Benedetto XVI è stato operato al cuore nella clinica Pio XI a Roma per la sostituzione del pacemaker, «nel riserbo più assoluto». Lo riporta oggi in prima pagina il Sole 24 Ore in un articolo del direttore del quotidiano.
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/02/12/it...fducb1MHPhm9RnaL8GfntK/pagina.html

English:
The Vatican released a statement saying that the Pope has been in fact wearing a pacemaker for “some time,” but that his health is good. The 85-year-old has had a pacemaker for the last ten years. The surgery went well, and the Pope maintained his schedule, but it reportedly made him think about whether he was fit to stay in power.

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12118 posts, RR: 49
Reply 147, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3446 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 146):
English:
The Vatican released a statement saying that the Pope has been in fact wearing a pacemaker for “some time,” but that his health is good. The 85-year-old has had a pacemaker for the last ten years. The surgery went well, and the Pope maintained his schedule, but it reportedly made him think about whether he was fit to stay in power.



And your conspiracy spin on this news is?

         

He is a frail old man who is tired of working, who isn't.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 148, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 147):
And your conspiracy spin on this news is?

Voices are coming from the pacemaker telling him to quit.   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 149, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 147):
And your conspiracy spin on this news is?

He is a frail old man who is tired of working, who isn't.

No conspiracy. I quoted earlier in the thread some links on the fact that he is tired and he has no more strength.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 133):
Pope Historic resignation:
"I am leaving. I have got no more strength"

http://www.agi.it/english-version/wo..._of_the_pope_s_resignation_in_2012

Pope: here is why he has resigned
"I am really tired Will you excuse me"

http://www.agi.it/estero/notizie/201...tanco

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 150, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 149):
No conspiracy.

What? So you're backing away from stuff like:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
This is very strange.

Possibly this "resignation" is all organized/fabricated by Vatican stronghold Cardinals with an already named "shadow" successor to this Pope.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Apparently he is resigning due to declining health limiting his ability to fully do his job.

This is what we are being told - which I don't believe is the real truth.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Age and health are not an issue for this Pope. His predecessor Pope John Paul II had a grave illness and he was in much less condition than this Pope and he continued the job til his very last day.

This is something different. There must be something he knows that forced him to resign.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
At least they won't find this Pope dead in a strange way.

... and more.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 151, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 150):
What? So you're backing away from stuff like:

How do we know what the real truth is regarding world events? Pope or other.

I don't believe everything I am being told by the media, news reports, twitter, etc. unless there is proof of evidence.

It never hurts to question things. I think it is rather wise. It is my own right to do so.
I am not one who gobbles everything.

We don't know what is behind closed doors - especially the Vatican - but the same goes with the Vatican as with any other institutions. Politics are no stranger to this.

Like everywhere, there's good but also bad things, scandals, murders, cheating and lies.
Only that we are not being told everything.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 152, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 144):
after he migrated at the end of WWII?

He didn't migrate, he was capturered and sent to the US, he had no say in his fate. If the Americans hadn't got him the Russians would have, he would have 'migrated' to the USSR.

Good point none the less, but since he was a good Nazi who helped the US in the space race his prior history was forgotten about.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 153, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 151):
It never hurts to question things. I think it is rather wise. It is my own right to do so.
I am not one who gobbles everything.

Well of course it's your right to question. It just makes it difficult to follow what you're saying when you have posts claiming conspiracies and untruths, then later state that your opinion is he's just tired.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 154, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 153):
you have posts claiming conspiracies and untruths,

as if you knew better

I am no sheep material. I always question things, especially when it comes to politics and religions.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 153):
then later state that your opinion is he's just tired.


I most always quote my sources posting links - at least every time I can. How about these.

Spider on Pope during speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOx045-UlBc

Pope's Dove Attacked By Seagull
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ed-by-seagull-peace_n_2574054.html

Lightning strike at the Vatican after Pope resigns
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21421810

I came up with the link about the heart surgery. Heart surgery at 85 can be the cause of further ailment and being tired.

As we say in France, only idiots never change their mind.

 

Nude anti-Pope protesters storm Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris.

A group of feminists the same kind as those who protested President Putin in Russia went inside Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris and started dancing in the aisle and knocking on bells during a religious ceremony after they had taken their coats off and totally uncovered themselves, showing their breasts painted with anti-Pope tags.

Article in French with pictures
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/seins-nus-c...er-d%C3%A9part-pape-120449490.html

If they think Catholics are retrograde and old fashioned - they should try going to any Mosque during Friday prayer or to Synagogues or the Wailing Wall during a ceremony or prayer. They will see which world religion is most retrograde and old fashioned.

 Wow!

[Edited 2013-02-12 07:23:29]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20727 posts, RR: 62
Reply 155, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 154):
as if you knew better

I'm not claiming to know better. My first post in this thread was:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 62):
Sometimes people just want to say "I'm tired", and move on without a whole lot of fuss, allowing someone with more energy to take the reigns.

... and I continue to believe that.

I was pointing out that it's difficult to follow your train of thought on the Pope's resignation when you post opposing views within the same thread.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 156, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

How about having Ayatollah Cat Stevens aka Yusuf Islam as the next Pope?

That would be a cool choice.

I hope at least one of the conclave Cardinals will designate him and he can become Pope.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 157, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 146):
The Vatican released a statement saying that the Pope has been in fact wearing a pacemaker for “some time,” but that his health is good. The 85-year-old has had a pacemaker for the last ten years.

How ironic that the RC church tried to crush scientific advancement for decades and centuries.....now they have no qualms about pacemakers for the pope.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.