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Oscar Pistorius Arrested For Killing Girlfriend  
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6133 posts, RR: 30
Posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7488 times:
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in Spanish. If anybody finds the info. in English please post.

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/.../actualidad/1360827352_254289.html

He says he mistook her for a thief. Shot her in the head and in the arm.


MGGS
172 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9303 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7487 times:

link to USA Today in english.

Jesus a.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...storius-shoots-girlfriend/1918689/



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2076 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7465 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
He says he mistook her for a thief.

Yeah, sure ...


... but well, who knows, it also could depend on the drugs he has used.

 



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7445 times:

Sky News reporting that it may have been a Valentines surprise gone wrong. Weird I guess until we know the facts but very tragic whatever happened.

User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2321 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Very sad.

The star of the 2012 paralympics in London.


It may heat up the usual a.net firearm debate a little bit.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5173 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

The police news conference stated they had not said anything about it being a burglar.

They also mentioned there was no sign of forced entry and that they had been to this residence before for domestic allegations.


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2076 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7309 times:

Police charged him with murder.

Police speak about "previous incidents" in his house. Whatever that means.

[Edited 2013-02-14 03:45:06]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Sky News reporting that it may have been a Valentines surprise gone wrong. Weird I guess until we know the facts but very tragic whatever happened.

Completely irresponsible journalism IMO. Who exactly is positing this scenario? What is it based on other than coincidence?

[Edited 2013-02-14 04:10:10]

User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7301 times:

News reports this morning in the USA note that Pistorius lives in a tightly controlled gated community with a low likelihood of an 'outside' intruder. It is sadly well known of the high rates of crime in South Africa, with many owning guns for self-protection. In Pistorius' case his limited mobility to be able to escape from an intruder probably, along with being seen as having some wealth an well known person there, led him to own a gun. Of course there are other factors that led to him having a gun that are part of the history of that country. Unfortunately in the USA as well, a number of persons who are friends and family members are shot and injured or killed every month as believe to be intruders. It is a shame that such possible circumstances may have led to his girlfiend's death.

User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

A beautiful woman. It's always a shame when the good looking ones get killed.



User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

This is very sad. Both them were good looking fit people. One is dead and the other with a long jail sentence in front of him, if convicted.

The beautiful and the dammed.


User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

Ouch...



User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7044 times:
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Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4):
It may heat up the usual a.net firearm debate a little bit.

I doubt it. That only seems to apply when this sort of thing happens in the USA.

Quoting anstar (Reply 5):
The police news conference stated they had not said anything about it being a burglar.

That is what I heard on the CBS radio news at 6am.

Quoting anstar (Reply 5):
They also mentioned there was no sign of forced entry and that they had been to this residence before for domestic allegations.


I heard that at 6:30

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 6):
Police speak about "previous incidents" in his house. Whatever that means.

At 7am the story from police was there had been "domestic issues" on previous occasions.

Quoting babybus (Reply 10):
Both them were good looking fit people

Which is part of the reason that it's news (the other part being that they were famous) When this kind of thing happens to a couple of good looking people it's news, when it is two regular and ugly people it would be a local story on the 11pm news.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

The media is bringing out another side of Pistorius, that has has some serious issues. He had several close calls with the police. He was seriously injured in a boating accident in 2009 where alcohol was a likely factor in the crash but no criminal charges pushed. He was into guns big time. This article bring out some of his dark side: http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/...-murder-girlfriend-reeva-steenkamp

By the way, the Nike/his web site picture 'like a bullet' posted above has been removed from their sites.

Pistorius, like too many athletes around the world including in the USA, are able to get away with felony crimes, abuse people, drink and use drugs to abusive levels, cops and Judaical authorities afraid to do anything, the media covering up especially early on, and too many women are willing to sell their souls and bodies to them for the thrill even it cruel to them. They use performance enhancing drugs a step further than the law can catch them. From other reports, he had the public and media figures believe a phony side, including a NBC Sports reporter who spent some time with Pistorius in the lead up to the London Olympics who saw only the good public side of him, never seeing or looking for any problems with the law or with others. Sadly by not looking into his real life, not just his public side, he now faces murder charges.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6759 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
A beautiful woman. It's always a shame when the good looking ones get killed.

Are you completely serious? As if less attractive people are any less worthy of living?



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6747 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 19):
As if less attractive people are any less worthy of living?

People don't get as caught up or interested when an average person gets killed. Do you really think anyone would have been interested in the JonBennet Ramsay or Madelline Cane cases if the kids hadn't been cute, it would have been how sad a kid is dead and another missing next story please.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6744 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Please do not construe this as an approval of the most unfortunate event that occurred during the past day or so. But please keep in mind that under the South African Constitution, section 35(3)(h) of the Bill of Rights: Every accused person has a right to a fair trial, which includes the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.


Regards,


SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 21):
presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Exactly. What seems likely from first evidence has often been proven wrong.
For someone from a safe country what he did, when he did what he claimed to have done, seems very odd, shooting four times on someone he didnt see and didnt know who he was. If it would have happened in Western Europe, I would say, this is 99% murder, but it happened in South Africa, where armed robbers often kill instantly when someone wakes up. Before jumping to conclusions, this is about a man with no legs, he has the right to be more afraid of armed robbers than a 100% man.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Without judging these recent events since facts are lacking, I always felt he lacked humility.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6700 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 19):
Are you completely serious? As if less attractive people are any less worthy of living?

This:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
People don't get as caught up or interested when an average person gets killed. Do you really think anyone would have been interested in the JonBennet Ramsay or Madelline Cane cases if the kids hadn't been cute, it would have been how sad a kid is dead and another missing next story please.

Totally agreed. Same goes for celebrities.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
Without judging these recent events since facts are lacking, I always felt he lacked humility.

Indeed. And he also seemed just a bit odd, this guy. Maybe it was the SA accent, maybe the attitude, I don't know. He's always seemed a bit... off to me.



Cheers
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
People don't get as caught up or interested when an average person gets killed. Do you really think anyone would have been interested in the JonBennet Ramsay or Madelline Cane cases if the kids hadn't been cute, it would have been how sad a kid is dead and another missing next story please.

I do understand your point. I feel the same way. In fact, I am ashamed to say, but I do not feel the model was attractive all that much. I feel horrible saying that about a victim of violence. Anyway.

This is a two-pronged story. People fawned over Pistorius because of his 'triumph' over adversity. I certainly liked his story. That does not mean that I do not feel for other victims of violence. There are plenty of African and Asian victims of landmines who have their legs blown off.

I thought this news story was more shocking in it's irony than any "omg a beautiful model killed" aspects. Each to their own I suppose.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6512 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Sky News reporting that it may have been a Valentines surprise gone wrong.
Quoting anstar (Reply 5):
They also mentioned there was no sign of forced entry and that they had been to this residence before for domestic allegations.
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 6):
Police speak about "previous incidents" in his house. Whatever that means.
Quoting SA7700 (Reply 21):
Every accused person has a right to a fair trial, which includes the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

I've frankly been puzzled by the way this case is 'working out.' But I begin to wonder if Pistorius - or his lawyers - are trying something that has never been tried before.

As SA7700 says, any accused person has to be 'proven guilty.' But on this occasion, whatever else, there were only two witnesses - and one of them is dead. So the only person who can provide eye-witness evidence about what actually happened is Pistorius himself.

But he is (I suspect carefully, 'on advice') saying absolutely nothing.

I further suspect that, if he goes on doing (or rather NOT doing) that, there is no way the prosecution can get a conviction. Circumstantial evidence, like fingerprints on the gun etc., would not be enough - the only thing that would do the trick is Pistorius himself confessing.

So if he goes on 'saying absolutely nothing' there's quite a good chance (if 'good' is the right word) that he'll get out from under any murder charge. Sure, they'll probably be able to lock him up for a good while on grounds of 'insanity' or whatever - but, on the face of it, if he goes on saying nothing at all, my guess is that they won't be able to make any sort of murder charge stick.

Mind you - I had to learn a fair bit of law in my time, but I'm no lawyer. Can anyone who IS one say whether it's possible to get a conviction for a capital crime just on the basis of 'probabilities' - with (assuming that Pistorius goes on saying nothing) no eye-witness evidence from anyone about what actually happened?

[Edited 2013-02-16 04:14:04]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
Circumstantial evidence, like fingerprints on the gun etc.

There's bound to be power residue evidence on his hands and clothing.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 27):
There's bound to be power residue evidence on his hands and clothing.

Well, he doesnt deny that he shot, right? So gun powder on his hands doesnt count much wether he´s a murder, or just a panicked guy afraid of a robber.
More important will be the distance he shot, the time between the shots, how much light was there, finding out what were the noises in the house heard by neighbours some time before the shots, the question when did the girlfriend enter the gated community, and so on.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6133 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6403 times:
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I would think that the fact the girlfriend has 3 shots in the head and one in the hand points to a deliberate killing. That shot in the hand comes from trying to cover her face, and if she had tme to cover it, she had time to scream her name.


MGGS
25 OA260 : You know its weird I just cant understand it. Normally you hear this and you say '' tragic accident or evil Man'' etc.. but I cant get my head around
26 Post contains links AR385 : According to this: http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/.../actualidad/1361034857_209549.html She was sitting in the toilette bowl when he shot her. Ki
27 Post contains links NAV20 : A bit more information here - which suggests that he was 'firing blind':- "Reeva, 29, is believed to have been sitting on a toilet when she was hit fo
28 Post contains links flood : Particularly considering she had already arrived at his house at 7pm the previous night, according to above mirror article. The City Press is also re
29 scbriml : Yep, it's looking increasingly like Oscar has run his last race.
30 okie : Clearly looking like Pistorius does not have a leg to stand on so to speak if we are to believe what has been in the media so far. It will be interes
31 AF1624 : So wait... Pistorius gets angry at Reeva, grabs his cricket bat, hits her. She runs away and locks herself in the bathroom. He grabs a gun as she is r
32 Aesma : If that's really the story then I'm not sure I would call that premeditated murder, that would be quite a crazy plan.
33 scbriml : So he attacked her with a cricket bat, then picked up a loaded gun when she ran away and tried to hide from him? I don't see him escaping a murder ch
34 Aesma : Well it depends of your definition of premeditated, and murder. But to me that doesn't look like something thought much in advance. More like a crime
35 NAV20 : She'd locked the door - he could well have been shooting the lock out?
36 ltbewr : Right now, all we have are unverified leaks of alleged acts and evidence as well as a woman dead of an act of violence in a certain internationally kn
37 scbriml : I suspect the majority of murders are not premeditated. It doesn't make them any less murders. Isn't this a uniquely French thing? In my experience,
38 SA7700 : We don't have juries in South Africa. As pointed out before the accused has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable
39 scbriml : So who decides his guilt, a panel of judges? Must admit I'm pretty surprised you don't have trial by jury.
40 SA7700 : Depending of the case a judge alone or a judge with the assistance with senior.advocates[Edited 2013-02-18 12:12:47]
41 Post contains links NAV20 : On the other hand, an amateur using a semi-automatic pistol might very easily loose off more rounds than were necessary? Some mention of shooting at
42 AF1624 : It would if you had no legs. I'm not even kidding. Blowing a door open by kicking it is relatively easy. A lot less so if you're not... well... agile
43 OA260 : Oscar Pistorius 'Put On Legs To Kill Partner' During the bail hearing, prosecutor Gerrie Nel argued he fired four shots at unarmed Reeva Steenkamp thr
44 Post contains images NAV20 : Not a big problem, AF1624, but you're quoting scrimbl, not me. [Edited 2013-02-19 02:55:21]
45 Post contains images scbriml : Pistorius has shown himself to be more than adequately agile on his 'legs'.
46 Post contains images NAV20 : LOL, scrimbl........
47 qantas077 : and in saying that, who on earth locks the bathroom door these day? sounds more like she was hiding from him than trying to take a toilet stop..he sa
48 connies4ever : In Canada, we do have, theoretically, trial by jury. But in fact, 90%+ of criminal cases are tried in front of a judge alone.
49 Post contains links NAV20 : Here's Pistorius' affidavit, presented to the court yesterday:- http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...us-affidavit-idUSBRE91I0OL20130219 Food for tho
50 SA7700 : How on earth can an affidavit be presented to the court yesterday, when the bail hearing is today and a plea has not even submitted to the court? Cal
51 Pellegrine : In my view, even if he didn't kill his girlfriend on purpose he's still a gun-paranoid killer. His argument doesn't hold much water re. thinking it wa
52 Post contains images NAV20 : We're a day ahead of you down here, SA7700. And the story clearly says:- "(Reuters) - Following are the central extracts of the court affidavit of Pa
53 flood : Indeed, and the Prosecution stated they have a witness who heard nonstop fighting between 2-3 AM that morning. Yikes. Investigator stated Pistorius f
54 NAV20 : Going to be an 'interesting' case, I guess, flood. On the one hand the prosecution doesn't have any direct evidence that proves that he had the inten
55 flood : Intent to kill, yes... maybe no direct evidence he had the intent to kill her. According to Pristorius, he had gone onto the balcony or to close the
56 Post contains images NAV20 : VERY significant point that I'd missed, flood, thanks!
57 flood : One would think so, but I'm starting to question the competence of the inspector and prosecution... apparently one of their witnesses who heard the a
58 SA7700 : The case is "sub judice" and has not even been heard before a judge. At this time it is being carried out by the media. Which is not a good starting p
59 Post contains links Pellegrine : http://twitter.com/alexeliseev/status/304185537256906752/photo/1 If you came in from that balcony, and thought you heard an intruder in the bathroom..
60 Post contains links NAV20 : Sorry, mate, but what the issue boils down to is 'freedom of speech.' Meself, I'm not at all certain that that cherished tradition, cherished and val
61 kiwirob : He was no amateur and had been using guns for many years. It also appears that he was using his legs, the bullets were apparently shot from height an
62 SA7700 : It is a high-profile case. In order it is investigated by both the police and judged by the local and international media which in MHO is unfair. Ple
63 AF1624 : Oh sorry man, don't know how that happened! I would too if it had a lock.
64 pvjin : Yeah that's what the law says, however in my understanding South Africa isn't only full of violence but also full of corruption, I wouldn't really tr
65 Post contains links NAV20 : When the case eventually goes to trial I suspect that that could turn out to be an important issue. Not 'of itself,' just on the principle that one l
66 dc9northwest : Yeah, right... I'm not a big advocate of guns, but as far as I am concerned an intruder in your house is a 'fair target' and should have no protectio
67 Post contains links flood : It gets more bizarre by the day: "The South African detective leading the Oscar Pistorius inquiry is himself facing seven charges of attempted murder,
68 Post contains images NAV20 : Of course you could be dead right, flood. But I tend to see it from the opposite angle; he's already made a 'de facto' confession of murder - as I sa
69 flood : I could be too and, quite frankly, I hope I am.
70 CXB77L : Quoted for emphasis. Too often I've read threads here and elsewhere where complete strangers have tried and convicted the accused before the case eve
71 NAV20 : That comment of mine was back in 'Reply 21' on Feb. 15th., CXB77L. Since then, Pistorius has made a number of additional admissions - including publi
72 ltbewr : Pistorius is currently in a part of the criminal justice procedure that is like a preliminary hearing used in some states in the USA. They are also on
73 Post contains links NAV20 : Getting late here, I'm turning in. But if anyone would like to follow current proceedings in court, they're on here (in English). Fascinating discussi
74 CXB77L : He admitted to firing the shots through the toilet door. However, if the prosecution wishes to charge Mr Pistorius of the premeditated murder of Ms S
75 NAV20 : He got the gun out from under the bed, CXB77L, and presumably jacked a round into the breech, and walked about seven metres to the bathroom. That sur
76 Post contains links AeroWesty : This case keeps getting more bizarre. Now the lead investigator, Hilton Botha, is being taken off the case after charges were reinstated against him f
77 Post contains links NAV20 : Bail hearing has closed now. To his credit, the judge says that he'll give his decision today - in about an hour and a half:- http://www.news24.com/So
78 CXB77L : The reasonable doubt isn't in his intention to shoot, but rather his intention to kill his girlfriend. If they want to charge Mr Pistorius with the p
79 Post contains links RussianJet : I am beginning to question the value of juries myself. I have talked to a few people who recently have done jury service, and was shocked to learn of
80 NAV20 : Decision is (for better or worse) that he's allowed bail........
81 kiwirob : That's the bit that gets me, what burglar breaks into a house then goes for a crap? I believe stumpy knew his GF was on the toilet and let her have i
82 CXB77L : I don't follow this logic. He fired through the door, that much is admitted. There may be forensic evidence to prove that he had aimed at the toilet,
83 Danny : Because it's illogical. A burglar who breaks in the house doesn't to the loo for no 2.
84 flood : He'll probably be sending Botha an Easter basket. Plenty of lingering questions. Pistorius was acutely aware of violence in the area and had received
85 CXB77L : No, but as I have already explained in the rest of that paragraph, it isn't too far fetched to imagine that a burglar could have gone in there to tak
86 starbuk7 : If I was a burglar and was being confronted by someone the last place I would go would be a confined space like a bathroom with only one way in and o
87 scbriml : It is when you look at the floor plan - the toilet has no exit and is a tiny trap.
88 Post contains links NAV20 : With respect, CXB777L, it boils down to whether you think he genuinely thought that there was a burglar there? If he didn't, his whole affidavit is c
89 CXB77L : It is indeed for the judge to decide. Whether you buy his "story" or not is irrelevant. As long as it is presented via admissible evidence in court,
90 Post contains images NAV20 : Cheers, CXB77L! Have to disagree on the basic point, though. The prosecution doesn't have to mess about 'proving' that he fired four rounds into a fe
91 Post contains images ltbewr : A former US State prosecutor I saw on TV this morning brought up that often women confronted in a violent argument will lock themselves into a bathroo
92 Post contains links flood : He didn't say it was open, yet arguably implied such which left the prosecution to raise the issue - a point which I don't recall being denied by the
93 yyz717 : Whether he is guilty or not of pre-meditated murder, will be determined by the ballistic evidence. Everything else is speculation or circumstantial. I
94 Post contains links NAV20 : If this press story is correct, it's difficult to believe how badly that detective stuffed up while giving his evidence. The story confirms that one c
95 Post contains links flood : The Telegraph article is from the 17th while leaks to media and speculation was rampant. The autopsy doesn't appear to support any claims of an assau
96 Post contains links NAV20 : I guess that all I have to do is post this link, flood? http://radaronline.com/exclusives/20...-steenkamp-skull-with-cricket-bat/ PS - this gives fur
97 Post contains images CXB77L : Not necessarily, assuming that the door isn't soudproof. Well, yes. There's no evidence to the contrary. The ballistic evidence will determine the po
98 flood : It's hard to lend the article much credence as the defense had stated the autopsy showed no signs of assault or defensive wounds - an assertion not c
99 Post contains links NAV20 : We have to remember that the bail hearing commenced within a very few days of the murder itself, flood. And there were reports that the crime concern
100 Post contains links flood : True, but the autopsy had already been completed and Ms. Steenkamp's body was cremated on the first day of the hearing. Well, it's the same story - m
101 NAV20 : Either of us could be right, flood. By pure chance, I've actually seen a wound caused by a 9mm. pistol bullet at close range - a training accident, no
102 CXB77L : Doesn't mean Mr Pistorius did in fact invent the intruder story to throw off inspectors. I don't agree. Even if that part of his affidavit was struck
103 Post contains images NAV20 : Happy to (politely) go on 'kicking the issues around,' CXB77L. But do you seriously hold the view that Pistorius has any prospect of being determined
104 Post contains images flood : Not sure where it was found, exactly... most articles I've come across mention it being in the hallway leading to the bathroom. I believe the defense
105 Post contains links NAV20 : Looking at this plan, that doesn't seem possible - he couldn't even have seen the door to the toilet cubicle until he was fully inside the bathroom?
106 CXB77L : One is not "determined innocent", they're either found guilty or not guilty of the charges laid against them. Being found not guilty does not equate
107 NAV20 : That's more or less what I meant, CXB77L. Even if he'd just been shooting at a burglar, as he claims, that would still be manslaughter at the least.
108 CXB77L : But from what I've read, he hasn't been charged with manslaughter, but premeditated murder. I believe it is unlikely that the prosecution can secure
109 NAV20 : That probably clears up the disagreement, CXB77L. It's customary for the prosecution to go for the 'top' charge, but they can down-grade that to a le
110 Post contains links NAV20 : Don't usually make double posts - but it looks as if the whole case just 'blew wide open.' http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...nkamp-pregnant-famil
111 Post contains links ThunderboltDrgn : "Oscar Pistorius is to ask for his ban on foreign travel to be lifted, along with the mandatory drug and alcohol tests he must undergo under his bail
112 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Thanks, ThunderboltDrgn, interesting. He doesn't want much, does he? Due to some sort of quarrel years ago, the National Enquirer is not accessible on
113 Aesma : I can't understand how he can even ask to travel. Here in France his ass would be in jail, and even if I understand how that can be seen as wrong sinc
114 Mudboy : Do you really believe that is the case, or do you think that might have been the only place to seek cover? If you break in a house in the dark, and t
115 Post contains links NAV20 : Mainly instinct - but also a certain amount of legal nouse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the SA Government has a whole lot more evidence against
116 KiwiRob : Pretty sure it didn't go down like that, he also lived in a gated community, in SA those communities are pretty secure. IMO it went something like th
117 Post contains links NAV20 : Don't know how other people will feel, but I find this decision just about incredible:- "A South African court has cleared Oscar Pistorius for interna
118 stealthz : Fairly poor choice of words given the location but considering I agree I will go with "cut & dried" Pretty unbelievable that he should be able to
119 Post contains images CXB77L : I agree entirely. It's a shame that some people have already come to a conclusion about a person's guilt before the court have had a chance to hear t
120 NAV20 : No mention of any such restrictions in the press article, CXB77L? All the judge appears to have said is:- "I find that the magistrate's decision not
121 KiwiRob : Simply unbelievable, I can't imagine this happening in many other countries for a murder suspect. Makes you wonder how much the Judge was paid to ove
122 CXB77L : Just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean there aren't any, neither does something mentioned in an article automatically make it true. I'll conced
123 Aesma : First of all, even if his story is true, I still think he should be jailed for some time. Self-defense shouldn't allow you to shoot at unidentified pe
124 NAV20 : Absolutely right, Aesma. If attacked, the law allows you to use 'reasonable force' to defend yourself. But even Pistorius (as far as we know) admits
125 connies4ever : I'll agree with that to the extent that he won't be acquitted. But I've believed for some time w.r.t. this case that some form of plea bargain will b
126 KiwiRob : Why South Africa is very corrupt, it's engrained into society.
127 ltbewr : I bet if Pistorius were Black, he would be rotting away in jail for the rest of his life, no bail, never see the outside world again. There is somethi
128 Post contains links NAV20 : All the signs are that, as far as participating in athletic events is concerned, Pistorius faces the 'cold shoulder.' "The sporting world seemed poise
129 CXB77L : Self defence allows a person to use reasonable force to defend themselves. This 'reasonable force' is determined by both an objective and a subjectiv
130 cmf : Do you think that is applicaple in that case? I don't understand how anyone can take the story that he expected an intruder to be in the bathroom ser
131 NAV20 : Surely firing up to four rounds through the door, apparently at an angle calculated to hit anyone sitting on the toilet-seat, provides ample evidence
132 TheSultanOfWing : I concur! Really curious whether they can prove he had put on his prostheses before the shooting, contrary to what he declared. Apparently the angle
133 CXB77L : I believe it's the other way around. A judge is much more likely to assess only the admissible evidence presented in court rather than be influenced
134 Post contains links NAV20 : Even if he genuinely believed that there was a 'burglar' in the house, CXB77L, he has not produced any evidence (or indeed any testimony) to support
135 CXB77L : Quoting from his affidavit: Whether the force used is "reasonable" enough to constitute "self defence" has, in part, a subjective element, in that if
136 cmf : It is because a judge is much better at weighting the evidence I think Pistorius version is very unlikely to carry. How do you know she didn't respon
137 CXB77L : Pistorius' affidavit is admissible evidence. Every piece of evidence has a certain probative value depending on what the evidence is and what it prov
138 cmf : Exactly. Between the jealousy, screaming, etc. the suggestion that a burger locked himself in the bathroom will be thrown out and with it the rest of
139 Post contains links NAV20 : Found a press story that, if it's 'kosher,' completely destroys the 'intruder' case. Also more or less confirms the 'passageway shot':- "Model Reeva w
140 CXB77L : Only if the prosecution can provide admissible evidence to prove that Pistorius' version of events is false. Every aspect of his testimony are to be
141 cmf : What you're saying is that if he claimed an alien beamed in to the bathroom and shot her then for lack of evidence that is what happened... Reality i
142 NAV20 : I'm afraid that in court proceedings, CXB77L, things tend more often to work the other way round; if one untruth can be proved the rest of the testim
143 CXB77L : Except that's not what he's claiming. He doesn't deny shooting through the toilet door, what he does deny is that he knew Steenkamp was there and had
144 Pellegrine : When is this guy going to jail and for how long? Ugh.
145 NAV20 : Apparently there's another court appearance in June, Pellegrine. But the courts are vastly over-crowded, last I heard the actual trial won't be until
146 cmf : "I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and
147 CXB77L : Where does he say that the door was open? He brought in the fan, and closed the door after bringing in the fan. Whether it was open when he was sleep
148 Aesma : It's not a "version of events" it's what happened in his head, or rather, what he says happened in his head. Remember, there was no intruder. Pistori
149 cmf : It was stated in court. I have never shouted when i have suspected someone I fear may shoot me is hiding close by. Why his actions don't make sense.
150 Post contains images CXB77L : The fact that there was no intruder does not exclude the possibility that he thought there was, and that he was firing at an intruder in self defence
151 Post contains links cmf : "Pistorius said that he and Steenkamp were in bed asleep when he awoke and went to the balcony to close a sliding door and get a fan." http://www.gua
152 CXB77L : Thanks for the link. The fact of his having to close the balcony door after getting the fan does not automatically mean that it was left open in the
153 cmf : That isn't what is said. It clearly state he was asleep and then went up to close the door, and get the fan. It certainly doesn't. It pivots around i
154 CXB77L : It still does not necessarily mean that the door was left open before he went to get the fan. But that is truly not important. Let's assume for the m
155 cmf : Self defense doesn't give you the right to fire at shadows. What he did was reckless. Even if you think there is a burglar locked in the bathroom you
156 CXB77L : What constitutes self defence or not differs depending on the circumstances. It's arguable that the self defence argument would not succeed due to th
157 cmf : I fail to see that argument. If a burglar has locked himself in the bathroom he is obviously scared of you, trying to get away from you. That it is.
158 CXB77L : Not necessarily. The burglar could be hiding for no reason other than to avoid detection so he could go about his burgling after the occupants have g
159 cmf : Doesn't make it a need to shoot blind. Yes, because they do not add up. And even if they did add up it would be reckless behavior instead of self def
160 CXB77L : That depends on the level of threat that he perceived the burglar posed. There is no "threshold" as to the force used in self defence; it is entirely
161 Post contains images cmf : I really do not find it arguable. It doesn't matter how scared you are, it isn't justification to shoot at just a sound. Thankfully you're not the ju
162 babybus : I think it is so wrong to pre-judge the guy on here. He's a good looking guy who's done a lot for sport and the disabled. We don't know all the facts
163 NAV20 : Really can't see how you come to that conclusion, CXB77L? One of the few things that is certain in this case is that no-one else, at any stage, was s
164 Post contains images CXB77L : Because of the level of perceived threat. Pistorius had received death threats; he lives in a country with a high rate of violent crime; the defence
165 vikkyvik : That's nice, but completely irrelevant to whether he committed murder or not. Besides, if he was an ugly guy who hadn't done much for sport and the d
166 cmf : A bit simplified I understand your position as because he stated fear for his life whatever action he took is justifiable self defense. I'm having a
167 CXB77L : In a manner of speaking, yes, but: When the defence cannot satisfy the court that the action was taken in self defence. Under Western Australian law,
168 Post contains links and images Aesma :
169 cmf : The question was direct to you, not to Australian courts and not to South African courts. Where do you set the border where it crosses self defense a
170 NAV20 : Agree, cmf. In fact, even if Pistorius had in fact shot and killed an unarmed burglar, he'd probably be facing the same charges?
171 CXB77L : You'll get the same answer from me. What constitues self defence is a matter of proportionality and reasonableness depending on the circumstances. Th
172 cmf : Why is it so hard for you to provide examples of what is and what isn't acceptable? If it is up to each court to decide in each case then it is nothi
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