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Pope Benedict XVI To Resign Part 2  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4747 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

As the previous thread was quite lenghty and hard to load for some of our members please continue the discussion here.

Part 1:
Pope Benedict XVI To Resign (by andrej Feb 11 2013 in Non Aviation)

204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3870 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

The next pope should be Irish. I would like the Pope of Greenwich Village, Mickey Rourke, as the next pontiff.

...or perhaps Cardinal Roger Mahony or Mgsr. Thomas Curry, neither one is busy right now.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

The greatest Pope of my lifetime, I wish His Holiness well and blessings be upon him

-a



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Looks like Pope BXVI wants to make some changes before resignation time.

La Stampa:

20/02/2013
Il Papa si appresta a modificare le procedure del Conclave

The Pope is preparing to change the procedures in the conclave

Translation
"The Pope is considering posting a Motu Proprio, in the next few days, obviously before the seat becomes vacant, to clarify some particular points of the Apostolic Constitution on the Conclave (Universi Dominici Gregis, ndr) that in recent years had been presented".
The announcement came in late morning by the Vatican spokesman, father Federico Lombardi, after anticipating this morning to Vatican Insider. The Director of the Vatican Press Office noted, however, did not know if Pope Ratzinger "deems necessary or appropriate to make a clarification on the issue of the time of the beginning of the Conclave. If and when the document is released we'll see ".

Link to the story in Italian
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/va...o/vaticano-vatican-vaticano-22499/


Cardinals with the easy Tweets

Timothy Dolan leads the pack with 82,000 followers
Gianfranco Ravasi comes second with 38,000 followers
Bronze medal winner is Odilo Scherer from Brazil with 23,000 followers
Angelo Scola gets 4th place with 18,000 followers
Sean Patrick O’Malley Archbishop of Boston gets 5th place with 10,000 followers
Norberto Rivera Archbishop of Mexico claims the 6th place with 4,000 fans
Cardinal Napier Achbishop of Durban S.A. gets 7th place with 3,400 fans
Rubén Salazar Gómez, Bogotà, Colombia gets 8th place with some 3,000 followers
Seguono Sistach, Archbishop of Barcelona is 9th with some 2,600 fans
Roger Mahony the controversial former Archbishop of Los Angeles is in 10th place with 559 followers.

Some few days ago Mahony said he was ready to leave for Rome. I will tweet every day said Mahony.
The question is: will he be the Mole?

Link to the article in Italian:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/ne...olo/twitter-twitter-twitter-22512/

 Wow!  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4664 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
Cardinals with the easy Tweets

Ah I forgot that the next Pope gets elected by the number of Twitter followers  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3870 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
Some few days ago Mahony said he was ready to leave for Rome.

Just like Cardinal Law of Boston, he wants to be one step ahead of the law (no pun intended).



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Ah I forgot that the next Pope gets elected by the number of Twitter followers

Dolan is probably one of the most open minded cardinals among them in the conclave so I would not mind that he become the next Pope. The trouble is they will probably choose another conservative.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I would not mind that he become the next Pope.

Why would it really matter who is pope to non-Catholics?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Why would it really matter who is pope to non-Catholics?

Because he has Millions of followers all over the world especially in poor countries so what he will do and what choices he makes is very important. One Billion is 1000 Millions if I am right. So a leader of One Billion people isn't just nothing.

from wiki:
The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is the world's largest Christian Church, with more than one billion members worldwide.[1] It is among the oldest institutions in the world and has played a prominent role in the history of Western civilisation.[2] The Catholic hierarchy is led by the Pope and includes cardinals, patriarchs and diocesan bishops.

more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church

Better be a good man rather than a corrupt man with a bad image.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Yes, I am familiar with the Catholic church, but thanks for the wiki link regardless.  

I just don't see how the election of Pope Benedict was better or worse for non-Catholics than any of the other choices at the time, nor how any on the current list would have any bearing on my daily life as a non-Catholic.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

According to Forbes list the Pope is the 5th most powerful person in the world.
This is a list that can be taken seriously.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/pope-benedict-xvi/

4th is Bill Gates
3rd is Vladimir Putin
2nd is Angela Merkel
1st is Barack Obama

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
This is a list that can be taken seriously.

It seems as if my question of what the effect one pope over another would have over my daily life as a non-Catholic is unanswerable.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
It seems as if my question of what the effect one pope over another would have over my daily life as a non-Catholic

No one is forcing you to follow the Pope or any other religious leader for that fact but he is certainly the most respected religious leader worldwide - for right or wrong.

If I was asked to choose as a Western woman I would certainly rather the Pope than Shariah.

Good thing I can still choose to go my own way.

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 12):
No one is forcing you to follow the Pope or any other religious leader for that fact but he is certainly the most respected religious leader worldwide - for right or wrong.

I marginally follow the goings on in the Vatican as it pertains to current events. When you said you wouldn't mind Dolan becoming the next pope, I asked what difference it would make one way or another to non-Catholics which candidate is chosen, as I've never seen one.

My curiosity has been satisfied now—it is either an unanswerable question or it makes no difference at all.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5742 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
I just don't see how the election of Pope Benedict was better or worse for non-Catholics than any of the other choices at the time, nor how any on the current list would have any bearing on my daily life as a non-Catholic.

Becasue in the USA, Catholics vote, and those votes affect the leaders and laws of the land. So if the Pope gives permission for women to use contraceptives, or allows women into leadership, or allows Priests to marry, or introduces excommunication with liability for Priests that molest.... Well that will greatly affect how millions of Catholics will vote. And don't kid yourself that this would not affect those votes (or actions within their respective communities).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
So if the Pope gives permission for women to use contraceptives, or allows women into leadership, or allows Priests to marry, or introduces excommunication with liability for Priests that molest.... Well that will greatly affect how millions of Catholics will vote.

Thank you, interesting perspective. I may still be coming from the basis of that Catholics don't have that much of an effect upon politics, emanating from JFK being considered unelectable due to being Catholic (yes, I realize that was many moons ago, but old habits die hard).

Coming from a non-religious viewpoint, it's always seemed that among Christians, the Protestant-evangelical bloc was the one which made much more of a difference in a political vein—or at least they got the most press.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4561 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Why would it really matter who is pope to non-Catholics?

It is speculative of course but perhaps a more 'liberal" Pope might introduce a more flexible approach to abortion and that could lead to improvements in access to safe abortion. Recall recently in this forum that there was discussion of a woman who died in Eire after doctors refused to perform an abortion despite it being possibly the only way to save her life. It is alleged that she was told that an abortion could not be performed because "this is a Catholic country." The woman involved was not a Catholic yet because of the laws in Eire, heavily influenced by the Church, she was denied possible life-saving surgery.

So yes, non-Catholics can be affected by Church-based laws and a different view adopted by one Pope or another might make a difference. Better yet is for countries not to base law on religion, but that's another story.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4534 times:
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AP is reporting Timothy Dolan has been fired for his role in covering up the sexual scandals in Milwaukee.

User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 665 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Why would it really matter who is pope to non-Catholics?

Because we are affected by the resultant levels of lunacy, misogyny, bigotry, and homophobia. It is very important for us to know if the next pope will be extremely lunatic, or just very lunatic.



Cheers
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4528 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):
It is very important for us to know if the next pope will be extremely lunatic, or just very lunatic.

LOL, okay then!

It's times like this when having not been exposed to organized religion growing up, nor it being an important part of the landscape of where I was raised or now live as an adult, that occasionally pops up as a disadvantage in terms of cultural intelligence.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4527 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Coming from a non-religious viewpoint, it's always seemed that among Christians, the Protestant-evangelical bloc was the one which made much more of a difference in a political vein—or at least they got the most press.

Funny, how we in Catholic countries see the Evangelicals as the more "fringe" parts of Christianity.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4521 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
So if the Pope gives permission for women to use contraceptives, or allows women into leadership, or allows Priests to marry,

Not going to happen - not in the Roman Catholic church. There are many other Christian groups/churches where this is the norm, the Church of England, Evangelical, Mormons, Episcopalian and others. The choice is there.
The next Pope will be no different in that respect. He is kept under control by those around him - nothing will change.

Quoting tugger (Reply 14):
introduces excommunication with liability for Priests that molest.

Seems that some of them were fired and sent away from their dioceses - Mahony in Los Angeles and the one in Boston. I think they had to sell their most important real estate assets to pay back all the families - financially speaking. The harm these creepy priests have done to the children/young boys will never be repaired.

      



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):
Because we are affected by the resultant levels of lunacy, misogyny, bigotry, and homophobia.

This is not only the Pope. It goes for hundreds thousands everywhere in the world.
Not everybody agrees with some of the changes in society at large.

Hundreds of thousands march in Puerto Rico against gay rights.
More than 200,000 religious Christians marched against gay rights in Puerto Rico on Monday in the largest such demonstration in the history of the US commonwealth.
Gathering in front of San Juan’s Capitol building, hundreds of thousands of Christian Puerto Ricans stopped traffic while defending “traditional marriage” and protesting against the idea of granting gay couples legal rights.
http://www.rt.com/usa/gay-rights-puerto-rico-167/



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 665 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
This is not only the Pope. It goes for hundreds thousands everywhere in the world.

Yes but the hundreds of thousands everywhere in the world you refer to do not have the power of life or death that the pope has over hundreds of millions in the world (see declarations re: condom usage in Africa for example).



Cheers
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):
Because we are affected by the resultant levels of lunacy, misogyny, bigotry, and homophobia. It is very important for us to know if the next pope will be extremely lunatic, or just very lunatic.

I mean even as a Catholic I disagree with a lot of their positions, but really, what has the Pope done that is considered lunatic? Homophobia? A shame, yes, I don't think it's lunatic, up to a couple decades ago that was basically the norm. Didn't make it right, but lunatic? Covering for pedophiles? I mean we can go on about conspiracy theories, but don't you think that was just a way to make the aftermath less bad (even if it was wrong?) That's not really lunatic either



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4497 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Hundreds of thousands march in Puerto Rico against gay rights.

As a gay man who has been to Puerto Rico many times, that is deeply ironic.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4474 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 25):
As a gay man who has been to Puerto Rico many times, that is deeply ironic.

mariner

I was thinking moronic myself.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Hundreds of thousands march in Puerto Rico against gay rights.

Going back to what I asked earlier, would one pope over another make a difference in a situation like this? I've never believed that the Catholic church would ever modernize its views towards homosexuality.

Disclosure: I've only ever been to P.R. as a connection point for SXM.  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4492 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 27):
I've never believed that the Catholic church would ever modernize its views towards homosexuality.

I don't see how the Church can change its views as long as its fundamental belief is that the sexual act is reserved solely for the purpose of creating new souls. And even that is a Pauline compromise - the "ideal" state is celibacy, marriage is for those who cannot control their lust.

There's a problem without that compromise, of course. The Shakers embraced celibacy for men and women, zero sexual congress, as their own road to Calvary - "the true cross is our own self-denial" - and they died out (duh!), which is the last thing the Catholic church wants.

But people, especially men, will do it. Sexual activity between young men is widespread in all the countries that border the Mediterranean (Catholic and Muslim). It is not "gay" as such - it is female substitution in most cases - and it's been going on for ever. The great explorer, Sir Richard Burton, published a 19th century map of what he called "the soditic zones."

It applies in the Latin American countries, too, and Latin Caribbean - the British and French seem to have more success in making it even more tortured and discreet, but it all seems to me to be hypocritical, a denial of the life force.

Although even the Brits couldn't stamp out (or even make discreet) the socially accepted trans-genderism of the Samoas - the Fa'afafine - an acknowledged "third gender."

What puzzles me more is why people even want or expect the Church to change.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 27):
Disclosure: I've only ever been to P.R. as a connection point for SXM.  

Dare I say you don't know what you're missing?  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Quote:
A potentially explosive report has linked the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI to the discovery of a network of gay prelates in the Vatican, some of whom – the report said – were being blackmailed by outsiders.

That is what The Guardian is reporting, quoting Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica. It seems the Pope made the decision to resign on the day he received a dossier compiled by three cardinals delegated to look into the so-called "Vatileaks" affair - 17 December.

Quote:
It quoted a source "very close to those who wrote [the cardinal's report]" as saying: "Everything revolves around the non-observance of the sixth and seventh commandments."

The seventh enjoins against theft. The sixth forbids adultery, but is linked in Catholic doctrine to the proscribing of homosexual acts.

We won't know for a while what the reports contain because the documents have been locked away and will be given to the Pope's eventual successor.

Perhaps he was threatened with being "outed".   


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 29):
That is what The Guardian is reporting, quoting Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica. It seems the Pope made the decision to resign on the day he received a dossier compiled by three cardinals delegated to look into the so-called "Vatileaks" affair - 17 December.

I found it very weird from the time they announced that the Pope resigned for "health reasons". Pope JPII was in much worse health than him and he continued his service as Pope until the very end. The excuse that other Popes had resigned hundreds of years back was most probably just an excuse for him and the Cardinals to explain the resignation to the Pope's followers.
That he is tired - yes most probably so, just like every other 85 year old with a charge of work such as his not counting huge pressure coming from all directions...

There will be more coming out... and that is only in the press... where there is smoke there is fire they say...

If people think Ratzinger is a bad man, there must be a lot of those who are much worse than him in his "close guard" me humbly thinks the next Pope could be a much worse person than him... one of those who have really covered the pedophiles in the RCC... and maybe BXVI had no other choice than go along with that...?
... and why would a former Pope have to hide in a convent inside the Vatican walls when he could spend the rest of his life leisurely in his native Bavaria with prayers, writing, his cats and his grand piano studying his favourite composers...? The man does not have to hide from the world....

 Wow!

Vatican scandal cited in Pope resignation
Pope Benedict XVI resigned after an internal investigation informed him about a web of blackmail, corruption and gay sex in the Vatican, Italian media reports say.
Three cardinals were asked by Benedict to verify allegations of financial impropriety, cronyism and corruption exposed in the so-called VatiLeaks affair.
On December 17, 2012, they handed the pontiff two red-leather bound volumes, almost 300 pages long, containing "an exact map of the mischief and the bad fish" inside the Holy See, La Repubblica said.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/...-scandal-cited-in-Pope-resignation

 Wow!

Secret Sex Scandal Report Behind Pope Resignation?
Pope Benedict XVI’s abrupt resignation was prompted by a secret report revealing sex and graft scandals inside the Vatican, according to the Italian daily La Repubblica.
“The Pope decided to step down the week before Christmas,” the newspaper wrote.
ANALYSIS: Rumors Swirl Amid Pope’s Resignation
Relying on an unnamed Vatican source, La Repubblica revealed that on December 17 three cardinals presented the pontiff with the “Relationem,” a 300-page report which investigated allegations brought up last year by the so-called Vatileaks scandal.
and then this...
Last autumn Benedict’s butler, Paolo Gabriele, was found guilty of having stolen confidential documents from the papal apartment.
http://news.discovery.com/history/re...mpted-popes-resignation-130221.htm

 Wow!
Quoting Quokkas (Reply 29):

We won't know for a while what the reports contain because the documents have been locked away and will be given to the Pope's eventual successor.

for a while? I would say never - except from non-official Vatican sources.

 Wow!
Quoting Quokkas (Reply 29):
Perhaps he was threatened with being "outed".

Perhaps he was threatened of a "John Paul I"... could be anything....

 Wow!

and...
Remember what I said in the other "Pope resigns" thread...

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Apparently he is resigning due to declining health limiting his ability to fully do his job.

Quoting MadameConcorde:
This is what we are being told - which I don't believe is the real truth.

I smell a lot of fishy stuff...

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 31, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4407 times:

Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana: the Catholic Church, Africa and gays

CNN/Christiane Amanpour

The Catholic Church is growing fastest in Africa and Asia, so many are wondering if the next Pope might come from outside Europe.
...
When Amanpour asked Turkson about the possibility of the Catholic Church’s sexual abuse scandal spreading to Africa, he said it would unlikely be in the same proportion as it has in Europe.
“African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its population against this tendency,” he said. “Because in several communities, in several cultures in Africa homosexuality or for that matter any affair between two sexes of the same kind are not countenanced in our society.”
...
(says Arch. Peter Turkson)

watch the video of the interview here:
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/0...who-could-be-the-first-black-pope/

Turkson looks like a really nice man... only that somehow he has a serious hangup on gays...

    Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 32, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4401 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 31):
Turkson looks like a really nice man... only that somehow he has a serious hangup on gays...

Ironically it is what the priest prefer to molest!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 33, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

The story of Cardinal Dr. Tagle, 55, Archbishop of Manila - one of the contenders.
The man has a most unusual profile. He is an outsider so he stands a good chance if they want a non-Vatican man.

Papabile of the Day: The Men Who Could Be Pope

One could make a pretty strong argument that nobody's chances of becoming the next pope benefit more from Benedict XVI's resignation than those of Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of Manila in the Philippines.
Under ordinary circumstances, Tagle's youth would be seen as an almost insuperable bar to election. At 55, he's three years younger than John Paul II was when he was elected in 1978, so a vote for Tagle would be tantamount to a vote for another long papacy, perhaps as much as 30 years.
...
When they do, they're likely to find a lot to like about the man touted as the "Great Asian Hope" to take over the Throne of Peter. One Filipino commentator has said Tagle has "a theologian's mind, a musician's soul and a pastor's heart."

read more:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today...pabile-day-men-who-could-be-pope-3

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 34, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

Well, the discussion about what the next Pope should consider and what direction the Church should take is getting more interesting, with Britain's Cardinal Keith O'Brien suggesting Catholic priests should be able to marry and have children, saying the demand for celibacy was not of "divine origin".

Quote:


"For example the celibacy of the clergy, whether priests should marry – Jesus didn't say that," O'Brien said. "There was a time when priests got married, and of course we know at the present time in some branches of the church – in some branches of the Catholic church – priests can get married, so that is obviously not of divine of origin and it could get discussed again."

He also pointed out the the Church has accepted into the priesthood former CoE priests who were married.

Perfectly reasonable on the surface. Now before we run away with the idea that the Cardinal is some kind of liberal when it comes to human relationships, he is staunchly opposed to gay rights, has condemned homosexuality as immoral, opposes gay adoption, and most recently arguing that same-sex marriages would be "harmful to the physical, mental and spiritual well-being of those involved".

Which makes the timing of another report all the more interesting. Three priests and a former priest have accused the Cardinal of "inappropriate contact", stretching back over thirty years. Now if the allegations are true, then that would tend to make a mockery of his statements concerning homosexuality. Is this another example of not practising what one preaches? Or is one party seeking to muddy the waters?


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Taking a look at St. Peter's Square live cam there are a lot of people there, the square is packed on this Sunday morning - probably trying to catch a last glimpse of Pope Benny, waiting to see if he ever comes to the window as he will no longer be the Pope in 4 days. This is his last Sunday as Pope.

A historical event if there is one. There have not been a resigned Pope in 600 years.

http://www.vaticanstate.va/EN/Monuments/webcam/

        

[Edited 2013-02-24 02:57:23]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 36, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

As I have said for several weeks since the announcement of his Resignation, to me the pope is doing so for a mix or reasons including his health and the growing scandals. Perhaps in the most recently discussed scandal it involves people he knows personally, that he could not fairly judge them. Perhaps too he knows a new Pope is needed, one not connected to the Vatican and the various scandals (as Benedict was) for the lasting good of the church, to clean it up.

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 37, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

I knew this Pope was on to something different!

 

Pope refers to God as "Her"

Emotional Pope says he's following God's wishes

""The Lord is calling me to climb onto the mountain, to dedicate myself even more to prayer and meditation," he said to cheers of "Long Live the Pope".
"But this does not mean abandoning the church.
"Actually, if God asks this of me, it is precisely because I can continue to serve -- her -- with the same dedication and the same love I have shown so far."."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-2...-prayer-for-emotional-pope/4537042

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinektrick45 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 37):
Pope refers to God as "Her"

Emotional Pope says he's following God's wishes

""The Lord is calling me to climb onto the mountain, to dedicate myself even more to prayer and meditation," he said to cheers of "Long Live the Pope".
"But this does not mean abandoning the church.
"Actually, if God asks this of me, it is precisely because I can continue to serve -- her -- with the same dedication and the same love I have shown so far."."

The "her" refers to the Church. It's that Latin syntax, just like in the new English translations of the Mass.


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 39, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4208 times:
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I like how people try to make something out of nothing


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 40, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4199 times:

Quoting ktrick45 (Reply 38):
The "her" refers to the Church. It's that Latin syntax, just like in the new English translations of the Mass.

I would not be able to tell if the Pope spoke directly in English and I did not know the English translation of the Mass referred to the Church as "her".

In Italian the Church is "la chiesa"
In French it is "l'Eglise"
so both are addressed as "her"

Now I understand better. Thank you for explaining.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 41, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

The Cardinal for Scotland and parts of England, Keith O'Brian, and would have been eligible to vote for the next Pontiff, has resigned over charges of improper sexual behavior with other priests in the 1980's.

It is just about to be announced what the date of the start of the Conclave to choose the next Pope will be, it appears it will be much earlier than historical practice.

Now if we could get removed, have resign or prevent the travel to Rome of the dozens of other eligible voter-Cardinals for their mortal sins of either involved directly or helped to hide sexual abuse of children and teens, perhaps then a true rebuilding of the Church can begin.


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 42, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4132 times:
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Quoting ltbewr (Reply 41):
The Cardinal for Scotland and parts of England, Keith O'Brian, and would have been eligible to vote for the next Pontiff, has resigned over charges of improper sexual behavior with other priests in the 1980's.

At least he kept it all in the family and didn't go after kids. Give him credit for that.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 43, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 42):
At least he kept it all in the family and didn't go after kids. Give him credit for that.

True.

BBC Breaking News
As it happened: Cardinal Keith O'Brien resigns

1101: Cardinal O'Brien's decision follows allegations of inappropriate behaviour towards priests dating back to the 1980s. He contests the claims and is seeking legal action.

1108: Cardinal O'Brien's resignation is also a personal tragedy for himself, the BBC's Robert Pigott says. "He was about to retire after taking part as Britain's only representative in the papal election next month, a role he took extremely seriously. He said in a BBC interview on Friday that he found the responsibility of helping to choose a successor to Pope Benedict 'almost frightening'."

1122: Cardinal Keith O'Brien, confirmed that he is to step down immediately, saying "The Holy Father has now decided that my resignation will take effect today."

read more:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/21573123#TWEET624654

The UK church will have no say on who will be the next Pope.

 Wow!

Three cardinals from the US should not participate and now comes this one from Scotland who gets fired. Let's see how many cardinals will be left until the conclave

 Confused

Pope Benedict reportedly learned of a secret gay conclave at the Vatican on Dec. 17, the same day he decided to resign. The Vatican insisted the reports are false, and simply an attempt to influence the next pope's election.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...al-article-1.1271641#ixzz2LuXdnfbL

 Wow!

me thinks they already have a next Pope lined up before they even conclave. Looks like it will happen fast this time around. Habemus Papam will happen in no time. My take is on an ultra-conservative choice to so-call clean up the house (fut only on the surface).

Pope changes church law to allow cardinals to start conclave earlier than originally stipulated

Pope Benedict XVI has given the college of cardinals authority to change the date of the upcoming conclave to elect his successor, the Vatican announced today.
The Pope has signed a Motu propio on the issue, setting aside parts of a previous mandate from Pope John Paul II governing the working of a conclave, said Jesuit Fr. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesperson, at a press conference.
With a potential date for the concave now in the cardinals' hands, it is unknown when they will choose to meet to elect Benedict's successor.
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...the-vatican/detail/articolo/22647/

 Wow!

[Edited 2013-02-25 07:25:26]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 44, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

O'Brien had already submitted his resignation in November 2012, to be effective on March 17th this year, but it's been moved up so that the allegations against him won't distract from the conclave.

Sounds like a sensible thing to do given all of the rumors and suggestions floating around, such as the pope being threatened with a "John Paul I" if he didn't resign being one of the more outlandish of the lot.  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 45, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4097 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):
Three cardinals from the US should not participate and now comes this one from Scotland who gets fired. Let's see how many cardinals will be left until the conclave

He resigned, the American ones have not. Nor were they the guilty party, they just covered it up, which was SOP = standard operating procedures.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 46, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

This is a very clever animation on how a Pope is elected (English)

Follow the arrows and click on the little crosses on each page.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...he-vatican/come-si-elegge-il-papa/

           



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 47, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 44):
O'Brien had already submitted his resignation in November 2012, to be effective on March 17th this year, but it's been moved up so that the allegations against him won't distract from the conclave.

Daily Mirror

Britain's top Catholic Cardinal steps down amid accusation of "inappropriate acts"
25 Feb 2013 22:32
His resignation followed a series of recent allegations against him dating back to the 80s by three priests and one former priest
The controversial cleric said he did not want the scandal surrounding him to overshadow the papal election.
His resignation followed a series of recent allegations against him dating back to the 80s by three priests and one former priest.

more here:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-keith-obrien-resigns-wake-1730479


and then comes Jimmy Savile
The picture on this page looks Photoshopped

Jimmy Savile and the Cardinal: Britain's top Catholic cleric was friend of disgraced TV host

Cardinal O’Brien, who – along with Prince Philip – welcomed Pope Benedict to Scotland in 2010, was no stranger to controversy.
He recently clashed with the Scottish government over its plans to enshrine same-sex marriage in law by 2015.
A year ago he described gay marriage as a “grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right”.

more:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...vile-cardinal-keith-obrien-1731376

Another picture of Cardinal Keith O'Brien with Jimmy Savile. - no Photoshop here
http://s2.postimage.org/wbpavvw8p/ca...nal_keith_o_brien_jimmy_savile.jpg

 Wow!    Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 48, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 47):
Daily Mirror

I don't know why you quoted my post for this. It doesn't change that O'Brien had originally submitted his resignation last year to be effective next month. Have you ever thought of writing for the National Enquirer?  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 49, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 48):
Have you ever thought of writing for the National Enquirer?

I am making use of all sorts of sources on this Pope's resignation and all that is around it.

What if Cardnal O'Brien had really been friends with Jimmy Savile? I have no idea if this true or not, I just posted a picture and a link to an article.

I will quote from all sorts of sources and links, from the most official Vatican sources, classic Italian news sites to the most outlandish or populist news sites or the BBC or CNN or which ever other sites. - and I never even looked at the "National Enquirer" I don't even know what they are about. Maybe like the French Canard Enchainé ?

You seem to be very US-centric. We here on Anet are from all parts of the world - not only the U.S.

Back to the news.
Vacancy will start Thursday at 8.00 PM.

It looks like they still haven't made up their mind on how the no-longer Pope Ratzinger will be addressed. He will no longer be Bishop of Rome (Pope). He will no longer be a Cardinal as he will have no diocese. A Cardinal is in fact a Bishop with a honorific title. A Bishop is in charge a diocese. A Cardinal or arch-bishop has an arch-diocese.

It's all rather complicated. There are all sorts of Cardinals. Who can or cannot be a Cardinal has changed through the centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_%28Catholicism%29

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 50, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
You seem to be very US-centric. We here on Anet are from all parts of the world - not only the U.S.

LOL, we seem to have a difficult time communicating. I was simply inquiring why you used my post, which used information from a legitimate news organization, as a pre-cursor for posting another article from the tabloids. As far as being US-centric, if that means rooted in reality, sign me up!  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 51, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3990 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):

It looks like they still haven't made up their mind on how the no-longer Pope Ratzinger will be addressed. He will no longer be Bishop of Rome (Pope). He will no longer be a Cardinal as he will have no diocese. A Cardinal is in fact a Bishop with a honorific title. A Bishop is in charge a diocese. A Cardinal or arch-bishop has an arch-diocese.

It's all rather complicated. There are all sorts of Cardinals. Who can or cannot be a Cardinal has changed through the centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_%28Catholicism%29

They have made up there minds it was announced on "The Today Show" this morning.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 52, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 51):
"The Today Show"

That may be too US-centric of a source for some of our readers.    I'll help confirm my global stature with a link to the Reuters report:

Pope will keep title "His Holiness" after resignation

Pope Emeritus.   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 53, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 51):
They have made up there minds it was announced on "The Today Show" this morning.

Thank you. I just saw it now. I like Pope Emeritus.
So now he is a Professor Emeritus and Pope Emeritus.

Also he will still be a Man in White only without the red shoes and no cape. It will save the Vatican tailors money.
I bet Rubelli are not too happy about this. Maybe they thought he would need a clothing total makeover - though they will get busy with the new Pontiff.

  

Ratzinger will still be addressed as “Your Holiness” and is to be given the title “Pope Emeritus” when he steps down from the Throne of St. Peter. He will wear a simple white cassock but will no longer be able to wear the red papal shoes. The first Congregation of Cardinals will be held on 4 March.

more here:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...i-benedict-xvi-benedico-xvi-22667/

I want to hurry and write him a letter in his new place after he leaves Castel Gandolfo end he returns to his new apartment in the Vatican.

Maybe I will finally know for sure if he flew on Concorde during the former Pope John Paul II several supersonic flights.

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 54, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 52):

That may be too US-centric of a source for some of our readers. I'll help confirm my global stature with a link to the Reuters report:

Pope will keep title "His Holiness" after resignation

Pope Emeritus.

I was still writing my post while you posted yours.
Only with a different link from my Italian source.

I hope the mods will not consider this a double posting.
Just so I let them know.


  

No more Pope mobile for him either.... It will go to his successor....meh...  

Picture gallery
Pope Benny likes animals... and hats

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/photos/les-...%AEt-xvi-afp-photo--822485667.html

[Edited 2013-02-26 08:41:55]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 55, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Today was Josef Ratzinger's last public appearance as Pope Benedict XVI.

There was a large crowd at St Peter's square that extended to the surrounding streets.

Many came with flags and banners, like this big white and yellow banner that said "Benedict XVI again the new Pope"
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/02/27/mu...eGvo3xhHICgRceZHiLvlPN/pagina.html

«Non ritorno alla vita privata». Benedetto XVI non avrà «una vita di viaggi, incontri, ricevimenti, conferenze, eccetera"
I am not going back to a private life. Benedict XVI will not have a life of travels, meetings, receptions, conferences, etc.

"nel servizio della preghiera resto, per così dire, nel recinto di San Pietro"
in the service of prayer i am staying so to say within the walls of Saint Peter.

"I will not abandon the Cross" (video
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/02/27/mu...KYPTSKTe5hkKcc6AahYKBI/pagina.html

Tomorrow this time the seat will be vacant.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6847 posts, RR: 12
Reply 56, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

The gay lobby conspiracy is really interesting. It's not about a gay lobby at all, but rather people outside the Vatican pulling strings by holding incriminating evidence of homosexual acts over prelates.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2597 posts, RR: 7
Reply 57, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 56):

I can report that's true.
Along with several Justin Bieber wall posters (with lipstick smudges) in the Vatican apartments, they also found this:



User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 58, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

My favorite political cartoonist, Heiko Sakurai, sees Benedikt spending evenings playing Bingo  :

http://www.sakurai-cartoons.de/images/g_wiederbingobunt.gif

"Oh sure, it is him AGAIN. I don't care if it's his infallibility or if he's just lucky but he does ruin our Bingo evenings!"



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 59, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Well, the seat is now vacant. If anyone wants to apply ...


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 60, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3769 times:
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It is something that he stepped down as he really was not a leader even early on. I would have to say it would be hard for anyone to follow after the last pope and his popularity. You can only hope that the one picked realizes that this is the year 2013 and the world is a changing place if they like it or not.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 59):
Well, the seat is now vacant. If anyone wants to apply ...

Updating my LinkedIn profile now  



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 62, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 59):
Well, the seat is now vacant. If anyone wants to apply ...

Right now nobody is Pope
doesnt matter if you are Roman Catholic or not
but even still there is no Pope

Pope Benedict XVI is officially resigned. The world is Popeless.

I said I wanted to run for the job. I am the right age and I explained my program in Pope Benedict XVI To Resign Part 1 thread. I was baptized a catholic so I am OK.

I will return Concorde to flight and send Men on the Moon all with the Vatican money.

 

The only problem is being a woman and the discrimination on women not being allowed to run for the job.

There was Pope Joan but even her she was not recognized as official.



    Wow!

They are saying on the news that it could be April before there is a new one.
Seems like there are power struggles.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 63, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 62):
There was Pope Joan but even her she was not recognized as official.

That is a dishonest thing to say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan
"Pope Joan was a legendary female Pope who allegedly reigned for a few years some time during the Middle Ages."

I hope your dishonesty was unintentional... you should have not declared that as absolute fact unless you can provide undeniable proof



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 64, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 63):
you should have not declared that as absolute fact unless you can provide undeniable proof

How can I prove anything? I wasn't there to know if Pope Joan was real or if she is a legend.
No intention there. I would like that she had existed but how do we really know if she was really a Pope?

   

Il volo del Papa con l’elicottero
Pontiff Emeritus Benny leaves Rome by helicopter

http://www.lastampa.it/2013/02/28/mu...XdDoVSpkqV8OfFKw0Zn4bK/pagina.html

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 65, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 62):
They are saying on the news that it could be April before there is a new one.

The conclave is to start between March 15 and 20. I doubt that the cardinals will remain locked in the voting room until April. But if they do, no Catholic should object or be concerned, it's all by divine guidance!



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 66, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

28/02/2013 - VIDEO
Le ultime ore del Papa

Benny's last hours as Pope - nice views of the helicopter flight from Rome to Castelgandolfo and the now Pontiff Emeritus final salute to a cheerful crowd from the balcony of his temporary residence waving them thank you and good night.
"Grazie e buona notte"

http://www.lastampa.it/2013/02/28/mu...Z8GG702sXMjyg8azFFxkWN/pagina.html

        



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 67, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 64):

Then you say "there may have been a Pope Joan, a female" not "there was one who wasn't recognized." That's how disinformation gets spread



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 68, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3673 times:
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Does anybody knows what helicopter that was? It looked sexy, but my specialty is airliners not helos. Thanks.

User currently offlineThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 714 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3653 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 68):
Does anybody knows what helicopter that was? It looked sexy, but my specialty is airliners not helos. Thanks.


I don't know for sure but I would guess that it is an AgustaWestland of some sort.
Probably an Aw139 from the Italian Airforce.


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...Militare_AgustaWestland_AW-139.jpg

[Edited 2013-02-28 17:03:04]

[Edited 2013-02-28 17:09:00]

[Edited 2013-02-28 17:12:09]

[Edited 2013-02-28 17:12:26]


Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11768 posts, RR: 15
Reply 70, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 67):
Then you say "there may have been a Pope Joan, a female" not "there was one who wasn't recognized." That's how disinformation gets spread

I had heard there was a female elected pope centuries ago. The story I heard was she became pregnant and abdicated. The church designed a special "chair" to make sure the successive popes were male. That was a legend I heard, so I don't think it holds much water.

About the pope emeritus:

Does he still have the security and loyalty of the Swiss Guard? I understand his seal and ring are to be destroyed. I just don't know the whole story of the Swiss Guard and how they relate to a pope who retires.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 71, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 70):
Does he still have the security and loyalty of the Swiss Guard?

No, that was the last thing they showed on the news today. Video of the Swiss Guard closing out their protection of the pope emeritus.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 72, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3607 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 63):
"Pope Joan was a legendary female Pope who allegedly reigned for a few years some time during the Middle Ages."

I hope your dishonesty was unintentional... you should have not declared that as absolute fact unless you can provide undeniable proof

While I agree with you about the way it should have been worded, isn't demanding "undeniable proof" a can of worms in any debate about religion?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11768 posts, RR: 15
Reply 73, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3594 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 71):
Video of the Swiss Guard closing out their protection of the pope emeritus.

Between what you posted and what I read on Wikipedia, what I understand is:

Swiss Guard will still defend The Holy See and they will guard the Conclave when it convines. Then, the new recruits of the Swiss Guard will be sworn in in May to defend the new pope. Right? Wikipedia didn't say anything about a pope resigning.

As a Protestant, the whole pomp-and-circumstance is very interesting. As a gay, the Swiss Guard are REALLY interesting!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 74, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 72):
While I agree with you about the way it should have been worded,

This is an international forum with members from all different countries. We are not all experts in the English language or English native speakers like most here and we try to write our posts to the best of our knowledge.

Any way I was the first to come up with Pope Joan in the Pope Benedict XVI To Resign Part 1. Pope Joan would most probably not have come up if I had not posted about the story of this still uncertain woman Pope.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 75, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3583 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 74):
This is an international forum with members from all different countries. We are not all experts in the English language or English native speakers like most here and we try to write our posts to the best of our knowledge.

I understand and accept that, but whatever your native tongue I'm sure you have clauses, and a clause, such as mine that you quoted, is not a complete sentence, not the complete meaning - as I am sure you know.

Still - I apologize if you feel it was a criticism of your English language skills.

I have no problem with you raising Pope Joan - be she fictitious or not. There may be no "undeniable proof" she existed, but countless numbers of people believed that she did - which was my point. It applies to other (all?) aspects of religion.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6037 posts, RR: 3
Reply 76, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 65):
The conclave is to start between March 15 and 20. I doubt that the cardinals will remain locked in the voting room until April.

One of the last thing Benedict XVI did, was to sign a document that would allow the conclave to be moved forward by a couple of days. Since there is no Papal death, there is no mourning period and no funeral to take care of first, and everyone knew when the resignation would take place, it makes sense that the conclave be moved forward. Especially as the RCC is one of the holiest periods of the calendar.

And no, only the voting, praying and the addresses by the various cardinals takes place in the Sistine Chapel. The cardinals will spend the remainder of the time in one of the monastaries (which I've temporarily been unable to find the name of), where the TV sets have been disabled and the telephone lines disconnected.

The BBC had a brief report by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor of the 2005 conclave: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21624894


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 77, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3558 times:
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Quoting CPH-R (Reply 76):
One of the last thing Benedict XVI did, was to sign a document that would allow the conclave to be moved forward by a couple of days. Since there is no Papal death, there is no mourning period and no funeral to take care of first, and everyone knew when the resignation would take place, it makes sense that the conclave be moved forward. Especially as the RCC is one of the holiest periods of the calendar.



The way I understand it is, the rule for 15 days was to allow Cardinals to arrive and has been in place before we had the options for transportation like we do now. Just like the church out dated and needs to be updated.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 78, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 76):
The cardinals will spend the remainder of the time in one of the monastaries (which I've temporarily been unable to find the name of), where the TV sets have been disabled and the telephone lines disconnected.

They all have smart phones and none of these will be taken away from them - not in the conclave room but they will have them when they come out - no doubt.

Some Cardinals said they would keep using their Twitter accounts during conclave.

Twitter official (SVC Servizi Centrali Vaticano):
Catholic News Svc ‏@CatholicNewsSvc

Ab Georg says pope's been playing piano in evenings, but didn't last night

  

This is rather good news. He didn't last night as he had just moved to CastelGandolfo. He must have had other things in his mind. I am sure there is a piano for him in his temporary residence so he can spend some of his time with his favourite composers.

Pope Emeritus Benny:

Music, Universal Language of Understanding and Prayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRzltOD0KlM

  

Pope Emeritus and music

Cardinal Ratzinger plays the piano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXmJryYrG3c

Pope plays Schubert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeFw5FSenoo

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 79, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 77):
Just like the church out dated and needs to be updated.

Why? Perhaps you would like to elucidate.

In what way is the 15 day requirement out of date? In what way does it impact on the day to day operations of the Church? How should it be updated?

We know that the Pontiff has determined that the Conclave can occur earlier - indicating a certain flexibility. We know that the day to day administration will be continued during the interregnum.

Is there any issue that would require a much speedier election? Does an "infallible decision" need to be made tomorrow or the next day? The Church may be a body corporate but it isn't exactly like your average airline. For one thing it makes money.  

But more seriously, the Church can survive for a couple of weeks without a Chairman of the Board of Directors because it still has a CEO. It has survived several hundred years. How many other bodies corporate can you name that have survived as long. Most Kingdoms haven't, let alone private companies.

Please note that I am not defending inertia or adherence to old forms and traditions. I am merely asking you to justify your own assertion of a need for change.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 80, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 79):
But more seriously, the Church can survive for a couple of weeks without a Chairman of the Board of Directors because it still has a CEO. It has survived several hundred years. How many other bodies corporate can you name that have survived as long. Most Kingdoms haven't, let alone private companies.

All true.

Conclave: Absence of clear favourite leaves door open to a number of possibilities

Cardinals, including the over 80s, have started their pre-Conclave pow wows. Many Italians are betting on Scola. U.S. candidates will play a central role but there is still uncertainty over the future Pope’s profile

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en.../conclave-conclave-conclave-22675/

  

Is there a captain on Peter’s boat ?

With few exceptions, the Cardinals gathered around him seemed confused. There will be no captain on the boat?

Technically yes, this night, Thursday, February 28. The impression of seeing a boat that is kind of left to its own devices and doesn’t know where to turn is not wrong.

There are certainly these “temperaments”, old sea dogs or tender lambs, these red-dressed cardinals who arrived these days from around the world to support the crew in place, trying to draw maps, define a route and navigation, and to find among them the providential captain who will be able to see far and keep the helm steady, very steady.

more:
http://pope2013.corriere.it/2013/02/...-a-captain-on-peters-boat/#more-98

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 81, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3548 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 79):
Please note that I am not defending inertia or adherence to old forms and traditions. I am merely asking you to justify your own assertion of a need for change.



Having been brought up Catholic the whole Catholic Church is out of touch and behind the times. Why do you think that membership is on the decline, they can't attract priests and nuns, churches are closing and merging.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 82, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3544 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 78):
They all have smart phones and none of these will be taken away from them



I really doubt that they all have smart phones, considering the age of the cardinals and the fact that old people do not embrace technology all that well.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 83, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 82):
I really doubt that they all have smart phones, considering the age of the cardinals and the fact that old people do not embrace technology all that well.

You will be surprised of the number of Cardinals with twitter accounts - that use them! I guess the use of twitter became hip after Emeritus Pope Benny had started his Pontifex twitter account and live Q&A sessions with his followers.

  

video:
The Sede Vacante begins

At eight o'clock in the evening Rome Time on February 28th, the Swiss Guards left the Apostolic Palace of Castel Gandolfo and shut the front door of the building. This was the official start of the Sede Vacante. At the same time, in the Vatican, The Apostolic Chamber met for the first time. This body exercises functions assigned to it by the special law on the vacancy of the Apostolic See.
Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who is the current Camerlengo of the Roman Church, then sealed the papal apartment. The Camerlengo is entrusted with the management of the daily affairs of the Church in the Sede Vacante, with the help of three cardinal-assistants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIRXP...-qoU&list=UU7E-LYc1wivk33iyt5bR5zQ

  

Lombardi: “Ratzinger slept well and will spend today praying”

Rest and prayer for the Pope Emeritus

Cardinal Ratzinger, who is now “Emeritus Pope”, spent a quiet first night in Castel Gandolfo since his resignation yesterday evening. According to Fr. Lombardi “he slept very well.” His day began with a mass at 7 am, followed by the recitation of the Breviary, the lauds, the office of readings and then breakfast. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI took a large number of letters, books and music with him to Castel Gandolfo, as well as his piano. Fr. Federico Lombardi said this in his usual press conference with journalists in the Vatican Press Office.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en.../detail/articolo/dimissioni-22782/

The Man in White and his music.
They don't say anything about his cats. He had them moved into his apartment when he became Pope. I hope he has them with him at Castel Gandolfo.

 pray   veryhappy 

[Edited 2013-03-01 07:21:40]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 84, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 82):
considering the age of the cardinals and the fact that old people do not embrace technology all that well.

You will not want to be told this if/when you get to their age: Roger Michael Mahony KGCHS (born February 27, 1936)

the controversial Cardinal with his lastest tweet:

Cardinal Mahony Cardinal Mahony ‏@CardinalMahony
First General Congregation of Cardinals Monday March 4 at 9:30 AM. Priority: getting to know all of our brother Cardinals more deeply.

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Giovanni Tridente Christoph Bodnar Father Edward Beck Eli

4:20 PM - Mar 1, 2013


  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 85, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3527 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 84):
You will not want to be told this if/when you get to their age:



It is not a problem for me as I have already embraced technology and am not afraid of it like so many people.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 86, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 81):
Having been brought up Catholic the whole Catholic Church is out of touch and behind the times

That the teachings of the Church may not find resonance in much of the rest of society has little to do with its administration. By all means criticise the attitude and stance on issues like marriage, abortion, gay rights and contraception. But you raised a point about the conclave procedures being "out of date." You still haven't said why or how.

In the West the Church has seen a drop in the number of people entering seminaries and wishing to be ordained into the priesthood. But in other parts of the world there has been an increase that exceeds the drop in the West. Hence the debate over whether the next Pope should be from Africa or Latin America. But again, the numbers game does not identify a problem with procedures, rather than one of the message not fitting expectations in different parts of the world.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 82):
I really doubt that they all have smart phones, considering the age of the cardinals and the fact that old people do not embrace technology all that well.

My aunt gained a doctorate when she was eighty years of age. She isn't unique in that. That doesn't mean that all eighty-year-olds could do the same. But it does disprove the notion that simply because one is older one can't learn new things or adapt to new technologies. The real issue isn't whether a person is young or old but whether they have exposure. All too common is that once people leave the workforce they are isolated from developments in technology and lack the opportunity to acquire new skills. If they can manage to stay involved then they certainly do adopt new technologies. Yes, habits can form but where people lead an active and involved life they can most certainly adapt. The issue isn't age but attitude and participation.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 87, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 85):
It is not a problem for me as I have already embraced technology and am not afraid of it like so many people.

then why are you saying this?

Do you think you are superior to (or more capable than) these older Cardinals?

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 82):
considering the age of the cardinals and the fact that old people do not embrace technology all that well.

You should be showing more respect for the elderly. You don't even know if you will be reaching their age.


Another Cardinal just tweeted:

Rubén Salazar Gómez[1] (born 22 September 1942) is the current Cardinal Archbishop of Bogotá since his installation on 13 August 2010.


Rubén Salazar Gómez Rubén Salazar Gómez ‏@cardenalruben

Mis plegarias para que Gobierno y caficultores logren, desde el diálogo, un acuerdo justo para bien del país.

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Alberto José Coronel

4:45 PM - Mar 1, 2013

      Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 88, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 87):
then why are you saying this?

Do you think you are superior to (or more capable than) these older Cardinals?

I see nothing wrong with his post. He points out that the older one gets the less likely they are to embrace new technology, and that he didn't have any problems adopting to smart phones since he's not in that age bracket yet. There's not disrespect in simply pointing out the truths in life.

I'm sure some cardinals will have smart phones, and some will not. No international incident-provoking or age disparaging remarks in that.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 89, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3516 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 87):
Do you think you are superior to (or more capable than) these older Cardinals?

When it come to technology yes! I am not afraid of it like a whole lot of old people.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 87):
You should be showing more respect for the elderly. You don't even know if you will be reaching their age.

Just cause they are old I have to show respect! Please. I could get hit by a bus this afternoon. What is your point.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 90, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 85):
It is not a problem for me as I have already embraced technology and am not afraid of it like so many people.

You will find that older people also "embraced technology" when they were younger. Do you not think that they were spell-bound when the first television pictures were broadcast? How do you think they felt witnessing the first man on the moon? Just because someone is old that does not mean they have lost the capacity to feel the buzz of the new or the benefit of easier ways of doing things.

When you become a bit older you may find that whatever fears you have or not your ability to embrace new ideas may change. This may be by accident (you develop dementia) or by design (you drop out of an environment where change is normal). I certainly hope that you can go on learning new things and making use of whatever inventions come along. The best guarantee of that is humility and a lack of arrogance. A willingness to look, listen and learn, just like you might suggest the Church does.

You say that you were brought up as a catholic. In that case you will understand the Commandment, honour thy father and thy mother. This doesn't mean blind obedience to what they say, contary to some claims. It simply means that what you have learned and benefited from was brought to you by your parents (and older people in general) and to remember that one day you will also be old. Basically, treat the elderly with the same respect that you would want when you grow old.

In the meantime I look forward to your instructive comments on how you think the Church should update its procedures as you haven't yet answered that question. Again, I am not defending the Church but I would like to see what ideas you have to improve things rather than a mere assertion that they are out of date.

Edited spelling

[Edited 2013-03-01 09:08:53]

User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 91, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3510 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 90):
In the meantime I look forward to your instructive comments on how you think the Church should update its procedures as you haven't yet answered that question. Again, I am not defending the Church but I would like to see what ideas you have to improve things rather than a mere assertion that they are out of date



I don't care what the Church does or not, I am no longer part of it and follow no organized religion.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 92, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 89):
Just cause they are old I have to show respect!

No, not because they are old. If you need that explaining to you then you still have a lot more to learn than the ability to swipe a screen or download an app. Any idiot can do that. An intelligent person knows that you gain a lot more by treating people with respect than by treating them with disdain. (Apart form FR, of course.  )

If I were to run a business on your principals I wouldn't last five minutes. Perhaps you do run a business where people come and pay to be insulted (these actually exist), but most people do not. Respect does not mean ignoring differences of opinion. It does not mean you can't state things as they are, based on verifiable data. It simply means treating people as you would wish to be treated. It isn't rocket science. You don't need technology for that. Simple common sense, which sadly isn't all that common.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 91):
I don't care what the Church does or not, I am no longer part of it and follow no organized religion.

As I thought. An assertion but nothing to offer. Leaving the Church is fine. No problem. I am not a member of any church but still retain an interest in bodies that do have an enormous influence on life. But when you claim that they need to modernise but offer no suggestions as to how then it becomes rather pointless, rather like an shaft without the arrowhead. Shame really because some incisive ideas as to how to change things for the better would probably be welcomed by many who are still followers.

[Edited 2013-03-01 09:12:05]

User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 93, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 92):
As I thought. An assertion but nothing to offer. Leaving the Church is fine. No problem. I am not a member of any church but still retain an interest in bodies that do have an enormous influence on life. But when you claim that they need to modernise but offer no suggestions as to how then it becomes rather pointless, rather like an shaft without the arrowhead. Shame really because some incisive ideas as to how to change things for the better would probably be welcomed by many who are still followers.

Since they have not made any changes in how many years, do you really thing they are going to start now! Honestly I could give a rats ass what they do or not. Truth me told they will probably do the same as they always have, and I could win that bet.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 94, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3470 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 92):
No, not because they are old. If you need that explaining to you then you still have a lot more to learn than the ability to swipe a screen or download an app. Any idiot can do that.

Then I must be an idiot because I resist all that. I am a Luddite and happily so.

I have a mobile phone which I keep in my car only for emergencies, but when I first bought it I dialled the number and nothing happened. No one told me you had to press "send" and I still think it's a bit silly.

Eventually, in my experience, everyone reaches the level of their own incompetence.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12148 posts, RR: 49
Reply 95, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3460 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
Then I must be an idiot because I resist all that. I am a Luddite and happily so.

I have a mobile phone which I keep in my car only for emergencies, but when I first bought it I dialled the number and nothing happened. No one told me you had to press "send" and I still think it's a bit silly.

Eventually, in my experience, everyone reaches the level of their own incompetence.

mariner

Could not have said it better myself.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 96, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

This is Pope Emeritus last tweet

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2013...timo_tweet-53600255/1/?ref=HREC1-8

Thank you for your love and support. May you always experience the joy of making Christ the center of your life.

  

@Pontifex_it

the Pontifex account is now closed and no longer available



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 97, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

Some are already criticizing the fact that Benedict XVI chose to keep his name and title of Pontiff (Pope) Emeritus.

Italian Catholic periodical, Civiltà Cattolica would prefer to call Benedict XVI “Bishop Emeritus of Rome”. Canonists contest Ratzinger’s choice
Andrea Tornielli
vatican city

“Pope Emeritus” or “Emeritus Roman Pontiff”: these are the titles Benedict XVI chose for himself at the end of his pontificate. This is according to Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi, who reported Benedict XVI’s decision communicated to him by the former Pope’s personal secretary, Georg Gänswein. But in an article published in Civiltà Cattolica, one of Italy’s oldest Catholic periodicals, Canonist Gianfranco Ghirlanda suggested a more suitable title would be “Bishop Emeritus of Rome”. Other Canonists preferred the term “former Pope”, added to the name Joseph Ratzinger, scrapping the papal name Benedict XVI which is linked to the papal acts of his eight years as leader of the Catholic Church.

read more:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en.../detail/articolo/dimissioni-22802/

 Wow!

Twitter archive for Benedict XVI

http://www.news.va/it/twitter_archive#

 angel 

[Edited 2013-03-01 13:24:28]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 98, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 97):
Some are already criticizing the fact that Benedict XVI chose to keep his name and title of Pontiff (Pope) Emeritus.

The title is correct as the pope is now a former head of state. All that the word "emeritus" means in this context is "retired". Any controversy over this is simply another tempest in a teapot.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 99, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3418 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 86):
Latin America

While the presence of Catholicism in Latin America is significant, amounting to 42% of the world´s Catholic population, it has stagnated and other Christian denominations are advancing. It is fast growing in Asia and Africa though.

I seriously doubt they´ll pick the African guy. He´s a radical among radicals.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 100, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 72):
While I agree with you about the way it should have been worded, isn't demanding "undeniable proof" a can of worms in any debate about religion?

lol I guess so

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 74):
This is an international forum with members from all different countries. We are not all experts in the English language or English native speakers like most here and we try to write our posts to the best of our knowledge.

Well if I misunderstood I apologize, but it is the 2nd time it appeared you declared it as fact



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 101, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3351 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 99):
I seriously doubt they´ll pick the African guy. He´s a radical among radicals.

We are not the ones to decide. There are several African cardinals not just Turkson. Turkson has the advantage of beign young, highly educated, an expert theologian and he wants to clean up the house should he be elected Pope.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 100):
Well if I misunderstood I apologize, but it is the 2nd time it appeared you declared it as fact

Back on topic!

It seems that the conclave will be a bit late as not all the Cardinals are in Rome. Some are travelling a very long way, think of those in Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific. They all travel on scheduled flights. No Cardinal Force One. No personal jets.

Cardinal Napier ‏@CardinalNapier

"Call for delay in Conclave" is nothing more than call to wait until all Cardinal Electors are present to participate fully in Congregations
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Albert Jaehyung Ahn creation Marilena Eyen naija MIDNIGHT HUNTER Our Lady of Fatima Augusto César

10:41 a.m. - Mar 2, 2013 · Details

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 102, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

How silly to even think about delays. Jets fly to Rome daily from all four corners of the earth, and Easter is approaching on March 31. Benedict expressly wrote new rules to allow the cardinals to begin voting as soon as possible.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 103, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 102):
How silly to even think about delays. Jets fly to Rome daily from all four corners of the earth, and Easter is approaching on March 31. Benedict expressly wrote new rules to allow the cardinals to begin voting as soon as possible.

There is not only the travel time for the Cardinals to get to Rome. There is more than that.

There has to be a pre-Conclave where all the 80¨can participate and debate before the Conclave where only those allowed vote will be present.

Then there is no guarantee how long it will take to choose the next Pope. Could be days, could be weeks until the white smoke comes out and "Habemus Papam".

There are several different camps/factions coming into play after all the scandals (Vatileaks, financial...) and the vote this time around will not be as easy as it was in 2005. It will be a totally different scene/situation.

Article:
Picking the pope a contest among four camps

... these contrasts with 2005 suggest that the papal election of 2013 is more difficult to handicap from the outside, and on the inside it may be more complicated to cobble together a winning coalition.

At the moment, the dynamics appear to be shaping up as a contest among four principal camps. To be clear, these are not overt blocs with platforms and spokesmen, but more like instincts circulating among cardinals that clash with some visions of the future and overlap with others.
...
read more here:
http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/pi...king-pope-contest-among-four-camps

  


The United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon

Ban Ki-Moon: Benedict leaves legacy to build upon

On Friday, Ban told Vatican Radio about his appreciation for the recently retired pontiff.

“We are very much grateful for his spiritual guidance and leadership, which he …demonstrate(ed) as Pope,” he remarked.
“I have expressed in my letter to His Holiness my deepest appreciation and respect for his profound commitment of Pope Benedict to interfaith dialogue and to addressing such global challenges as the alleviation of poverty and hunger, as well as (the) promotion of human rights and dignity, and peace and harmony of the world,” he continued.
“I sincerely hope that his wisdom demonstrated during his pontificate may stand as a legacy on which to build further dialogue and tolerance so that we all will be able to live in a world of peace and harmony,” he stated.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=669701


  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 104, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

While the former Pontiff did make some minor changes to the time in which a conclave can start, the reality is that it most likely won't start until the minimum of the modern rules, about 15 days after the 'death' of the Pope. Transportation is not so much the reason, but more about other commitments the voting eligible Cardinals have in their home countries they need to work out. Some may have returned home after being in Rome for the ceremonies as to Benedict's last days in office. This does leave only a few days to select a Pontiff prior to the Easter holy period when it is desired to have them in place for it, the 'cut off date' is believed to be the 17th as the ceremony of installation is normally done on a Sunday.

Perhaps soon we need to open up a new thread to discuss the Conclave, the speculation as to whom will be the next Pontiff and the final choice.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 105, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 104):
Perhaps soon we need to open up a new thread to discuss the Conclave, the speculation as to whom will be the next Pontiff and the final choice.

A little conspiracy just for the fun of it. Purely speculative and conspiracist

The man looks fugly and evil... and scary --> Tarcisio Bertone

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone....A forthcoming Devil and a Betrayer!!
The Anagram of "Tarcisio" spells" Iscariot" (Judas Iscariot)

The Prophecies of St Malachi are nothing more than a well planned pre programmed hoax invented by Illuminati Satanists to usher in the false Prophet of Revelation. Tarcisio Bertone has already been chosen well in advance for this position and this up and coming papal conclave will be nothing more than just a another mainstream media show piece to impress the masses.

read more:
http://abertlocan.blogspot.ie/2013/0...tarcisio-bertonea-forthcoming.html

- I hope they are wrong!!!!

Tarcisio Bertone as the new Pope?

NOT!!!!!

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 106, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
Then I must be an idiot because I resist all that. I am a Luddite and happily so.

On the contrary. A rational decision to do or not do something because you do not see a need for it or have a preference for a different approach suggests something other than idiocy. (sotto voce: did you read the destruction manual?   )

Yes, we all do come up against limits and yet some will strive to overcome them, others will resign themselves. But that isn't always an age related thing and the ability to use some technology or the other is no indication of a person's intellectual capacity in areas that matter to them.

The claim made by the poster to whom I responded was along the lines that because the dramatis personæ were mainly elderly and by implication had ossified ideas they would be unlikely to understand and use current technologies. Given that the emphasis of so-called smart devices is a simplified user interface it doesn't take much effort to operate them if one so wishes. Being able to does not imply superiority. Further, the poster to whom I responded was questioning why he should treat people with respect, given his belief that they are inherently incapable of adopting new technologies or ideas. It turns out that the real basis for opposition to the procedures in the Vatican has little to do with age but remains unstated. To each his own.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 107, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 104):
This does leave only a few days to select a Pontiff prior to the Easter holy period when it is desired to have them in place for it, the 'cut off date' is believed to be the 17th as the ceremony of installation is normally done on a Sunday.

The responsibility for Easter at the Vatican this year should fall to the current Dean of Bishops, just as Ratzinger handled Easter 2005 while John Paul II was ill. As the seated pope, Benedict understood when Easter would fall this year in relationship to his resignation, allowing plenty of time between the two events to get everything done. Talking of delays right now is just silly.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 108, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 107):
Talking of delays right now is just silly.

Neither you or anyone except the Cardinals themselves are to decide.

Twitter:

Cardinal Napier ‏@CardinalNapier
"Call for delay in Conclave" is nothing more than call to wait until all Cardinal Electors are present to participate fully in Congregations


Cardinal Napier Cardinal Napier ‏@CardinalNapier
That way Cardinals, esp. newer ones would have chance to be known & get to know others better. Also more time to learn different situations.

Reply
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Patricia Tomislav Roškarič

4:04 PM - Mar 2, 2013

  


DM:
Drunken parties at the seminary, crushes on young 'pups' and a gay mafia accused of bringing down Britain's top Catholic

Almost invariably, it was late at night by the time the parties started. After dinner and prayers, the residents of St Andrew’s College would gather around candlelit tables in the refectory or head upstairs to the billiard room to talk, drink and laugh into the wee hours.
...
The news came 24 hours after a Sunday newspaper revealed that three priests and a former priest have filed an official complaint accusing him of various counts of ‘inappropriate’ behaviour, stretching back more than three decades. Perhaps the most colourful alleged incident occurred at St Andrew’s in the spring of 1980.

A 20-year-old, who had joined the seminary two years earlier, claims that O’Brien, then 42, made a drunken attempt to seduce him.

read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-bringing-Britains-Catholic.html

   Wow!  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 109, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 108):
Neither you or anyone except the Cardinals themselves are to decide.

No one is forcing you to read my posts. Am I not allowed a dissenting opinion or to think freely and differently? Must we all be sheep?  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 110, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 109):
No one is forcing you to read my posts. Am I not allowed a dissenting opinion or to think freely and differently? Must we all be sheep?

You are certainly allowed to think different. 100% agree. I am not posting these things to contradict. I am just posting related sources from those related to the event: the election of a new Pope.

What will be decided is in their power. Not mine.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 111, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 102):
Jets fly to Rome daily from all four corners of the earth, and Easter is approaching on March 31.

Maybe, but many are not direct unless you opt for a private charter. I have looked at some short-notice options for Cardinal Pell and one of the best timewise included a stopover in Saudi Arabia! As we know, Saudi Arabia is famous for accommodating people of other religions than Islam, not.

Many other options involved a travel time of 40 to 53 hours. Oh, in case you don't know, Cardinal Pell is based in Melbourne and there are no direct flights from Melbourne to Rome. Now it may be possible to get another fare, even dumping other passengers because Cardinals are obviously more important than anyone else. Or are they? Dump a HVC+ for some guy who may not fly with you for another twenty years?

As I asked in another post, is there anything so urgent that a decision needs to be made sooner rather than later? Easter is indeed an important time for Christians. But the Papacy has never allowed festivals of that kind to get in the way of more serious business in the past. One celebration of an annual event is of less import than who is going to lead the business over the next ten, fifteen or twenty years. From that perspective, what is a day or two delay?

[Edited 2013-03-02 09:03:17]

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 112, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 111):
Maybe, but many are not direct unless you opt for a private charter. I have looked at some short-notice options for Cardinal Pell and one of the best timewise included a stopover in Saudi Arabia! As we know, Saudi Arabia is famous for accommodating people of other religions than Islam, not.

The most widely reported date for the conclave to begin is March 15th. This is the 2nd. Surely it doesn't take more than two weeks for even the most remotely-located cardinal to make his way to Rome. They've all had some notice already as it is.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 113, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 112):
Surely it doesn't take more than two weeks for even the most remotely-located cardinal to make his way to Rome.

Maybe they can or they can't. Perhaps every flight has open seats available, who knows? But as I asked , why is it so important whether they meet two days earlier or later? What is the real basis of the criticism? Is it really a dispute about bureaucratic procedures or something deeper?

As far as I can tell, there will not be any major changes made in Canon Law immediately upon election that is being held up by an the forthcoming election. There will not be any immediate change in any evidence provided before a Court in any jurisdiction where the Church is a party to any claims.

Indecent haste may suggest that a faction has already decided on a successor and wishes to ensure the succession, but there is no real evidence of that. In practical terms does it really matter? We are, after all is said and done, discussing administrative procedures.

Surely the real issue is whether the Church, if it is to retain any real relevance among its followers, assesses its theology to understand both changes in scientific knowledge and social mores and practices. Is the Church ready to decide to honestly appraise its role in the allegations of abuse of people in its care and the sexual predation and cover-ups by some of the clergy? Will the Church alter its stance on the use of prophylactics, abortion and divorce? These are real issues that affect millions of people around the world. Whether the conclave meet today or tomorrow palls into insignificance against those, in my opinion, more important questions if the result is simply no change.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 114, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3238 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 106):
On the contrary. A rational decision to do or not do something because you do not see a need for it or have a preference for a different approach suggests something other than idiocy.

If only it were rational. I have a fear of technology - anything more than an off-on switch is a leap into the unknown for me.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 106):
(sotto voce: did you read the destruction manual?   )

Not a lot of help. My eye glazes over once I know how to turn something on.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 106):
Yes, we all do come up against limits and yet some will strive to overcome them, others will resign themselves. But that isn't always an age related thing and the ability to use some technology or the other is no indication of a person's intellectual capacity in areas that matter to them.

Within my experience - only mine - age advances the process. In my industry, I was once regarded as a young lion - now I'm old and the new young lions have taken charge. Provably, I can still do what I can do as well as anyone but what I want to do has changed as I become increasingly conscious of my own mortality, my own eventual irrelevance.

My view of homosexuality is fashioned by the world in which I grew up. Now the times have moved beyond me - I do not understand why two men even want to get married. I understand it intellectually, as a concept - equality - and I'll fight for it on their behalf, but not in my heart or in my gut. Marriage is at variance with all the freedoms I think my sexuality gave me.

I am out of touch with the times.

It is true - in my experience - of organizations and governments, remember the "old" Soviet Union? The Catholic church is largely a gerontocracy, with old men who live in a rarified all-male (and supposedly celibate!) atmosphere still trying trying to impose their views of sex and marriage on other, younger people and the danger is that they make themselves irrelevant.

I think it is inevitable in any organization where the old men running it cleve to ancient edicts. I don't see how the Catholic church can "change" - but the Mormons changed their view of polygamy and black people, so I guess anything is possible.

But there is a paradox. If what the church preaches is divinely inspired why do they want the church to change? And if it isn't divinely inspired - if God can change his mind - what is the point of the church?

I think Benedict understood this - that the world had moved beyond him and he didn't know how to fix it. So he got out of the way. In that sense, nothing he did as pope was as sensible as his leaving the office.

If it mattered to me, perhaps I would wish that some of the old Cardinals felt the same way - that they understood their own eventual (and possibly present) irrelevance.

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-02 10:38:27]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 115, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

There are plenty of ways from almost anyplace in the world to get to Rome with perhaps 1 or 2 stops/transfers and not in a Islamic country or countries unfriendly to Christians or requiring transit visas. Even If an airline doesn't service Rome directly, others serve via LRH, CDG, FRA, or Madrid and from there there are plenty of connecting flights from them non-stop to Rome. I am quite sure the various authorities that issue Visas would do so in an expedited manner and the airlines that could be involved would accommodate with high attention by staff any Cardinal that needs to get to Rome.

I suspect that while there is a desire to have a new Pontiff in place for the full Easter period rituals, it is better that the Cardinals take all the time necessary to consider the next one. Pope John Paul II also put in new rules to be used if the balloting exceeds more that a certain number of rounds the reducing the number of candidates so more of a 'run off' election and lowering the minimum votes required from 2/3rds to 1/2 + 1 of all votes for the winner. Those rules probably mean it should take maybe only a few days or at most a week to make the choice.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 113):
Surely the real issue is whether the Church, if it is to retain any real relevance among its followers, assesses its theology to understand both changes in scientific knowledge and social mores and practices. Is the Church ready to decide to honestly appraise its role in the allegations of abuse of people in its care and the sexual predation and cover-ups by some of the clergy? Will the Church alter its stance on the use of prophylactics, abortion and divorce? These are real issues that affect millions of people around the world. Whether the conclave meet today or tomorrow palls into insignificance against those, in my opinion, more important questions if the result is simply no change.

  
Indeed. The next Pontiff will have the opportunity to consider bring the Church into the 21st Century. The Church should allow for brith control that doesn't destroy a fertilized egg. The should allow abortions for victims of rape, incest and to save the life of the mother. Divorce should be allowed if violence of one partner in a marriage to another and after counseling as done pre-marriage. As in the Eastern/Orthodox Christians, priests should be allowed to be married. They need to change the policies so if a Priest commits acts of sexual assault upon a minor or adult, they should face civil government criminal proceedings and pay just compensation to victims. There is also a need for the Vatican to remove itself from major international banking - in effect ending the so-called 'Vatican Bank' and converting it to an institution that follows only the most ethical standards and the profits going to support the poor. The Church also needs to separate itself from governments and who govern them, get out of the promotion of certain candidates and of polices like opposing same-gender civil marriage (although priests shouldn't be obligated to legally officiate any same-gender marriage).


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 116, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 114):

Thank you for your detailed and personal response. I do believe that it highlights that what applies to one does not necessarily apply to another but that either way a person should not be thought less of because of their own choices or abilities. That was my prime concern in my earlier post: respect has nothing to do with age, status or abilities. Everyone is different and no-one should be thought less of because of it. This is why I question whether people who profess to be either Christian or from a Christian background understand the notion of caritas (love) - the essential point of the religion.

I can share your questions regarding homosexual marriage. While it is not something that I consider for myself, I do accept that others may find it the solution for them and, as you say, intellectually equality is something that can be supported. This is where I differ with our Prime Minister. She has made the decision that marriage is not something she regards as important to her but she denies others the right to make their own decision as to what suits them. Yet no one would suggest Gillard is old. A young person can be more "reactionary" (to use a rather dated expression) than a person many years their senior.

Quoting mariner (Reply 114):
But there is a paradox.

There is a paradox that predates that question. If God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient why does he need an intermediary? Isn't that the basis for many "protestant" groupings who assert a direct relationship with God and who posit the idea that if you can read the bible you do not need priests and church rituals?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 117, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 113):
But as I asked , why is it so important whether they meet two days earlier or later?

Couple of days either way, doesn't make any difference to me at all. My comments were simply counterpoint to the usual conspiracy theory rumblings beginning again, and talk of delays. My reply is that talk of delays right now is silly when you look at a calendar. No need to read into it any more than that.

Quoting mariner (Reply 114):
Now the times have moved beyond me - I do not understand why two men even want to get married. I understand it intellectually, as a concept - equality - and I'll fight for it on their behalf, but not in my heart or in my gut. Marriage is at variance with all the freedoms I think my sexuality gave me.

You are not alone, trust me, you are not alone! I do not understand it one bit, and never will. And it's okay, I'm comfortable with feeling that way, as you probably are as well.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 112):
The most widely reported date for the conclave to begin is March 15th.

  Beware the Ides of March  .

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 115):
As in the Eastern/Orthodox Christians, priests should be allowed to be married.

It's hard enough to keep priests honest without them having to support a family of their own.    The Church is a jealous mistress.


Quoting ltbewr (Reply 115):
There is also a need for the Vatican to remove itself from major international banking - in effect ending the so-called 'Vatican Bank' and converting it to an institution that follows only the most ethical standards and the profits going to support the poor.

It'll clearly take a long time to live down the ripples of the Banco Ambrosiano affairs    .

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 116):
Isn't that the basis for many "protestant" groupings who assert a direct relationship with God and who posit the idea that if you can read the bible you do not need priests and church rituals?

Ahh...but who wrote the Bible or caused it to be written? Church and priests are here for those who seek enlightenment.   

[Edited 2013-03-02 12:42:32]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 119, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3203 times:
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Quoting Quokkas (Reply 116):
I do believe that it highlights that what applies to one does not necessarily apply to another but that either way a person should not be thought less of because of their own choices or abilities.

Of course, I agree. I suppose my ultimate point is that we may change - not our essential nature, but our thinking may become much more internalized.

And it is not to say that old people cannot be revolutionary. A Harvard professor of 90 has just written a challenging and demanding book which rewrites the early history of (white) America as a shockingly violent place and probably for religious (Protestant) reasons:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...192122641.html?c=y&story=fullstory

"The Shocking Savagery of America’s Early History"

And yes, reactionaries can be young, as with Julia Gillard, whose position is a ludicrous paradox - she is an atheist spinster cohabiting with a man and she uses the Bible as the basis for her objections to marriage equality.

She is also the leader of the Australian Labor Party - and if the Labor Party does not stand for equality, I have no idea what it does stand for.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 116):
There is a paradox that predates that question.

Certainly. But in this thread, I am trying to limit myself to the (Catholic) subject and the paradoxes thereof. It is often forgotten that England's King Henry VIII, who split with Rome, was never a Protestant. He saw himself as the leader of the Catholic Church of England rid of the Roman trappings - an English "pope" with inheritance rights for his progeny. It was his son who embraced the Protestant ascendency and his (first) daughter who tried to turn back to Rome.  

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-02 12:45:59]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 120, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 119):
and if the Labor Party does not stand for equality, I have no idea what it does stand for.

That could become a thread in its own right. Apart from a desire to gain office and develop policies based on expedience, what ideals do they have? I recall a scene in the movie by Margarethe von Trotta (and have subsequently read the text) where Rosa Luxemburg responded to Bernstein's claim that. "the final goal, whatever one might understand by that, is nothing: the movement is everything." Luxemburg correctly replied that the notion was absurd. No one ever boards a train without first determining where the train was headed. No-one just goes along for the ride (She had obviously not heard of A.net).

Now whether one agrees with Luxemburg's choice of destination it can not be argued that boarding any old train will do. Sadly, the history of the Labor Party in Australia suggests that all they care about is whether they have seats on the gravy train and are not worried about where it is headed.

Quoting mariner (Reply 119):
It is often forgotten that England's King Henry VIII, who split with Rome, was never a Protestant.

So true. The title that current monarchs (British) sport of "Defender of the Faith" was bestowed upon Henry for his defence of the Church of Rome and in opposition to those who argued for reform.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 121, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3192 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 117):
You are not alone, trust me, you are not alone! I do not understand it one bit, and never will. And it's okay, I'm comfortable with feeling that way, as you probably are as well.

Intellectually, as a theory, yes, because it is about equality and I will fight for that right. if anyone wants to do marry, they have all my good wishes.

My fear is that it becomes the desirable norm, that gays are expected to get married and (somehow) have children. In that sense, marriage equality is a very conservative cause.

I'm the sort of queer the conservatives should be worried about, because I don't recognize any bourgeois barriers. I don't want a monogamous, long term relationship - and the Australian outback with its supposedly "straight" (often married) male population, was always a happy hunting ground for me.

When I was seventeen, a priest told me I was a sinner damned to hell unless I changed my ways. Since I couldn't change my nature, I couldn't change my ways, so I embraced who I am.

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-02 13:06:44]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 122, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 121):
My fear is that it becomes the desirable norm, that gays are expected to get married and (somehow) have children. In that sense, marriage equality is a very conservative cause.

I've never taken it that far in my thought process, to be honest, but that's an interesting perspective. To accept gay marriage, the institutions of marriage must legitimize it to the point of it becoming level with the same expectations in straight society.

I look at that in relation to where I was in the 2004 election cycle when I cautioned people against endorsing anything more than civil partnerships, but it was mostly my straight friends and acquaintances who instead wanted "the whole enchilada"—perhaps because that's the only perspective they themselves were familiar with. What did we see as a result, but state after state placing anti same-sex marriage laws onto their books by popular vote. The common thought then was that validating gay marriages would destroy traditional marriage, not legitimize it further by bringing gay marriages into the fold, so to speak, by placing the same set of expectations on gay marriage as well.

What an interesting set of circumstances that would place institutions such as the Catholic church in, to become not one which simply accepts, but actively promotes same-sex marriage! Well at least the Vatican would be dressed for the occasion.

Quoting mariner (Reply 121):
I don't want a monogamous, long term relationship

I've always wondered if my viewpoint would change on that, as I grow older. A point comes where you begin to gather your wood for the winter, so to speak, and look around for a reliable soul to depend upon. I suspect I'll simply have a non-traditional old age as well.

Quoting mariner (Reply 121):
I embraced who I am.

I'm glad you did. So many are mortally afraid to do so.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 123, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3162 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 122):
What an interesting set of circumstances that would place institutions such as the Catholic church in, to become not one which simply accepts, but actively promotes same-sex marriage! Well at least the Vatican would be dressed for the occasion.

I don't see that it can happen without the Church making a (really quite small) shift in perspective. When I was a young man and the pill was changing the world, the Vatican advocated using the rhythm method, as a natural form of birth control.

The present thinking seems to be more hardline - that sex is only for the creation of new souls - but I assume the church does still accept (and promulgate) the rhythm method and it isn't a very big leap from there to the idea of non-preocative sex as generally acceptable (if not on Fridays - LOL).

The theology is good. I can't recall that St. Paul ever triangulates marriage and sex with children, but I'm not a scholar and I accept that I may have missed a bit.

But if non-preocreative sex became acceptable, I guess a lot of walls could come a'tumbling down so it may be a leap too far for the Vatican.

I dunno. I'm not holding my breath.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 122):
I've always wondered if my viewpoint would change on that, as I grow older.

It will depend on you, who you are. I was brought up as a loner all my life. I seldom lived in one place (or even one country) for much more than a couple of years and so I was entirely reliant for companionship on the kindness of brown and black strangers.

That's stayed with me. Nowhere is "home" except where I live now and if that changes I'll adapt - as I always have.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6847 posts, RR: 12
Reply 124, posted (1 year 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 60):
It is something that he stepped down as he really was not a leader even early on. I would have to say it would be hard for anyone to follow after the last pope and his popularity. You can only hope that the one picked realizes that this is the year 2013 and the world is a changing place if they like it or not.

JP2 was even less a leader than B16. B16 at least tried to tackle the problems, mostly failing. JP2 wouldn't even admit there were problems. He was out there promoting the Church and that worked (and I've been a front seat witness of that at the 2002 World Youth Days), but he didn't reform it.

Quoting mariner (Reply 123):
The present thinking seems to be more hardline - that sex is only for the creation of new souls

That isn't true. Sex is fine and even encouraged and described as beautiful and good for the (married and heterosexual) couple. What the Church is about these days is "only" banning methods that don't allow conception. That's why the "natural" method is accepted, because it's crappy. Sex is also fine for old people that can't conceive (still married and hetero, of course), or sterile people, so it's clearly not FOR making babies.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 125, posted (1 year 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 3152 times:
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Quoting Aesma (Reply 124):
That isn't true. Sex is fine and even encouraged and described as beautiful and good for the (married and heterosexual) couple.

Fair enough.

I hear less talk about it these days, but maybe I know fewer Catholics than I did.

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-02 19:47:43]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11768 posts, RR: 15
Reply 126, posted (1 year 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 3145 times:

Wouldn't it be interesting if the pope emeritus outlives the next pope?


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3870 posts, RR: 1
Reply 127, posted (1 year 9 months 19 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Latest odds to replace Papa Ratzi (Benedict XVI):

Peter Turkson 5/2

Angelo Scola 11/4

Tarciso Bertone 4/1

Angelo Bagnasco 5/1

Marc Ouellet 6/1

Peter Erdo 9/1

Christoph Schonborn 14/1

Gianfranco Ravas 14/1

Leanardo Sandri 14/1

Bar (the likely lowest odds of unmentioned candidates) 20/1

http://linemakers.sportingnews.com/s...t-xvi-papal-successor-angelo-scola



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6847 posts, RR: 12
Reply 128, posted (1 year 9 months 19 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

I don't understand Bertone's odds. From what I've read and seen on TV B16 resigned because he didn't want him to get more power if his health deteriorated.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 129, posted (1 year 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 128):
I don't understand Bertone's odds.

Better than Turkson could be part of his appeal. If I was Catholic, I don't know if I could respect my religion with some of the backward, middle ages-type viewpoints which I've read that Turkson holds.

Peter Turkson, African Candidate For Pope, Angers Many With Gay Priest Comments

Apologies, I've no tweets to post from him.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 130, posted (1 year 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 122):
I've never taken it that far in my thought process, to be honest, but that's an interesting perspective. To accept gay marriage, the institutions of marriage must legitimize it to the point of it becoming level with the same expectations in straight society.

A Pope accepting gay marriage isn't going to happen any time soon. The same applies with married priests or women priests within the catholic church and the same also applies for a Pope saying abortion is legit/accepted by the CC.

There are other christian churches that allow this. I don't see the catholic church and the Pope doing any different than they are doing now. All the less than 80 year old voting conclave cardinals were nominated by Pope JPII and BXVI so they are all in the same line as them albeit a few diverging but not so diverging opinions.

 

Some Italian cardinals are standing for a Brazilian Pope - they want a "ticket" with a Brazilian Pope with an Italian Secretary of State as a team. The Brazilian cardinal is in his early 60's and he seems to have many assets to hold the job.

  

Brazil's Cardinal Odilo Scherer is being proposed as a candidate to be next Pope by some Italian cardinals from the Roman Curia, including Sodano and Re, but they also want an Italian as Secretary of State

In 2005, some influential cardinals from the Roman Curia worked for the election of Joseph Ratzinger. Today, eight years later, informed sources both within and outside the Vatican confirm that a new group in the Vatican are seeking to bring for the first time in history a Latin American to the See of Peter, accompanied by a Secretary of State who is Italian, or an Argentinian of Italian-origins.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...an/detail/articolo/conclave-22818/

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 131, posted (1 year 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 130):
The Brazilian cardinal is in his early 60's and he seems to have many assets to hold the job.

How delightful. I predicted that first over 2 weeks ago in Reply #169 in the first thread.   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 132, posted (1 year 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 131):
How delightful. I predicted that first over 2 weeks ago in Reply #169 in the first thread.

Not a done deal yet. Remember no one thought Ratzinger would become Pope from the last conclave. There was all kinds of names lined up but not him. It could very well be the same again.

As far as I am concerned I am no practicing catholic so whoever becomes the next Pope will make no difference - although I would certainly prefer some types rather than others.

These child molesting sex scandals have to stop not only that but also the financial scandals, shady dealings and mafiosi bank/real estate transactions also have to stop. The House needs thorough cleaning and less hypocrisy. G_d is one thing, His/Her ground staff are another.

That or they will lose more and more people to other Christian branches or other religions.

 

Article with video:
Rare insight into life at the Vatican

COVERING a conclave is chiefly about politics and pageantry, so it is easy to forget that faith is an intensely personal thing, built on relationships vertical and horizontal. We were reminded of this in the last hours of Benedict's papacy on Thursday when, after a ceremonial departure from 144 assembled cardinals, he farewelled private staff.

read more:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/rare-ins...at-the-vatican-20130302-2fd1u.html

  


Cardinal O'Brien complainant 'warned' of risk of damage to Church

One of four men who made claims against Cardinal Keith O'Brien in the days before he resigned says he went public despite being warned he could damage the Catholic Church's reputation.
The ex-priest told the Observer he was disappointed by the "cold disapproval" he faced for "daring to break ranks".
He said he had feared the matter was in danger of being swept under the carpet.
The men accused the Scottish Catholic Church leader of improper behaviour in the 1980s - allegations he contests.

read more:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21646348

  

[Edited 2013-03-03 05:43:56]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 133, posted (1 year 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 132):
Not a done deal yet. Remember no one thought Ratzinger would become Pope from the last conclave. There was all kinds of names lined up but not him. It could very well be the same again.

My goodness, it was never declared that it was a done deal. Honestly, some of the replies in this thread beggar belief.      



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 134, posted (1 year 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
It seems as if my question of what the effect one pope over another would have over my daily life as a non-Catholic is unanswerable.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 133):
My goodness, it was never declared that it was a done deal. Honestly, some of the replies in this thread beggar belief.

Why are you taking so much heed if you are a non-catholic?
You always criticize without ever bringing any new information to the thread. Some obvious contradiction there.

 

Article: Benedict XVI received a nice gift from Mexico after his retirement - several pairs of very beautiful shoes - and then more pairs coming!
(pictures)

  

A change of style for Pope Benedict XVI: His new Mexican shoes

Pope Benedict XVI will have to let go of a few things now that he is transitioning to pope emeritus, including his famous red shoes. However, this is cause for celebration in Mexico, since that’s where the pope’s new shoes come from.

The new pair of shoes were gifted to Pope Benedict last year, during his visit to Latin America. When he visited Mexico — specifically Leon, Guanajuato — he received six pairs of shoes from the Ackerman shoe factory through the Archbishop of Leon, Jose Guadalupe Martin Rabago, made from newborn calf leather. It took the artisans at the factory three months to finish the shoes, and several tests to get the color just right. The president of Ackerman, Armando Martin Dueñas, told the Mexican press last year that the shoes were red, but the Vatican now says the shoes the pope will wear are brown.

Ackerman is planning to give the pope three additional pairs of shoes, including some in black.

http://www.voxxi.com/change-pope-ben...vi-mexican-shoes/?action=rpx_token

I have no doubt this will make some good publicity being the first retired Pope shoe maker!

  


Update: looks like they have set up a date. Going to be a busy time preparing for the big meet-up.

Conclave to start on 11 March

In eight days cardinals will enter the Sistine Chapel for the start of the Conclave. This is the Church’s first Sunday without a Pope and there is no Angelus prayer today
...
...
On the Church’s second day without a Pope – day two of the sede vacante period – Fr. Federico Lombardi commented on the achievements of the outgoing pope, now Pope Emeritus, and their significance, also for those who will have to work with the choices that will shape the future of global Catholicism. To emphasise the spiritual nature of the papal election, the Vatican spokesman referred back to one of Wojtyla’s core texts with a preface signed by Joseph Ratzinger.

read more:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...the-vatican/detail/articolo/22827/

                    

[Edited 2013-03-03 07:37:27]

[Edited 2013-03-03 07:38:33]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 135, posted (1 year 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 134):
Why are you taking so much heed if you are a non-catholic?

I refer you to my previous answer regarding following current events. I'm surprised this has to be explained to you, or that you would promote reigning in free expression of one's personal views on any subject.  Wow!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 134):
You always criticize without ever bringing any new information to the thread.

We all can't be feeding at the trough of conspiracy theories and hack jobs on the Vatican. LOL, how boring that would be. Some of us have original thought, and in a discussion forum we converse with others regarding those thoughts and viewpoints, whether the results are palatable to your senses or not, as long as they remain within the forum rules.     

If they are not, I can only suggest that you avert your eyes and move on to the next post.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 136, posted (1 year 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 135):

We all can't be feeding at the trough of conspiracy theories and hack jobs on the Vatican. LOL, how boring that would be.

Which conspiracy theories and which hack jobs on the Vatican and where?

I am posting all the links to everything that I find in the Italian press for information purposes, most always in translation or in the original English version and there is nothing off topic. It's all been related to the events that happened since BXVI resigned.

If you find it boring feel free to start your own thread with whatever.
Maybe you have secret contacts with insiders in the Vatican and you know things that the rest of us don't know.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 137, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 136):
If you find it boring feel free to start your own thread with whatever.

I'm sure that if we looked into it more deeply, the general consensus would be that discussion regarding the pope's resignation and the selection of his successor belong right here in this very thread. This would include all aspects of both events, plus the dynamics at work of not only the Catholic church, but how its views affect the world in general when appropriate, as the pope actively promotes those ideals.

Again, if such discussion—within the forum rules—offends your senses or perspective, you're always welcome to move on to the next post without further ado, rather than suggest that discussion appropriate to the topic be moved to another thread. I trust that we won't have to define this further.

Now, back to the pope! Always an invigorating topic.   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 138, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 137):
Now, back to the pope!

with more of my conspiracy theories I suppose?

  

You are the one who asked for it so here's more conspiracy straight from La Stampa the Alex Jones Infowars of the Vatican

  

The revenge of Vatican diplomacy?

The Holy See’s nuncios have suffered as a result of some of Benedict XVI’s decisions. Nw Sodano is pushing for Sandri to be made Vatican Secretary of State

Relations between Benedict XVI and diplomats in cassocks have never been good; now, with the Conclave just around the corner, efforts are being focused on trying to give Vatican diplomats their lustre back. Nuncios – at least a good number of them, including their leaders who answer to his eminence Angelo Sodano, the Prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, Sandri and the Patron of the Order of Malta, Cardinal Paolo Sardi – have suffered a number of decisions taken during Benedict XVI’s pontificate. First of all, the now former Pope’s decision to no longer receive nuncios in audience, with some rare exceptions.

read more:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...an/detail/articolo/conclave-22830/

This week's pre-Conclave meetings are going to be heated.

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 139, posted (1 year 9 months 8 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 138):
with more of my conspiracy theories I suppose?

No one ever said you couldn't post conspiracy theories if that's what you want to do. All I've ever said that is that it would be an awfully boring place if that's all anyone posted. If you want to be known for wearing a tin foil hat, at least wear it proudly!         



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 140, posted (1 year 9 months 8 hours ago) and read 3001 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 130):
The Brazilian cardinal is in his early 60's and he seems to have many assets to hold the job.

I highly doubt that will happen. The consensus is that having such a youg Pope would potentially make it a 25 or 30 year papacy and apparently no one wants that anymore.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 134):
this is cause for celebration in Mexico, since that’s where the pope’s new shoes come from.

Aside from a few notes in certain faith oriented newspapers, no one´s having a party here over that.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 141, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

more conspiracy, coming from the Scottish Catholic Media Office

3 March 2013

Statement from Cardinal O'Brien

"In recent days certain allegations which have been made against me have
become public. Initially, their anonymous and non-specific nature led me
to contest them.

However, I wish to take this opportunity to admit that there have been
times that my sexual conduct has fallen below the standards expected of me
as a priest, archbishop and cardinal.

To those I have offended, I apologise and ask forgiveness.

To the Catholic Church and people of Scotland, I also apologise.

I will now spend the rest of my life in retirement. I will play no further
part in the public life of the Catholic Church in Scotland."


ENDS

http://www.scmo.org/articles/statement-from-cardinal-obrien.html


even more conspiracy... everything about choosing a new Pope is conspiracy as we all know.

03/ 3/2013
U.S. cardinals explain the Pope hunting process

From their headquarters on the Janiculum Hill in Rome, American cardinals are preparing for the Conclave with readings, meetings and prayers
...
“I think all of us have been giving a great deal of thought to this for some time,” Chicago’s archbishop said, “but even before (Benedict XVI’s resignation, Ed.) this we saw people and knew they could be suited to the job. So I imagine each of us has a list of favourite candidates, as well as a list of other second or third favourites and so on…”. These names are repeated in the personal and private conversations that go on between cardinals ahead of the big election day: “What do you know about this candidate? – cardinals ask – How do you think he would react in such a situation? What kind of a person is he? How would he react if…?” and so on. So cardinals test the waters and look around them and it is therefore only normal that the same frontrunners start coming up again and again.

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en...ws/detail/articolo/conclave-22828/

[Edited 2013-03-03 10:44:03]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 142, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2996 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 134):
Why are you taking so much heed if you are a non-catholic?

I;m not a Catholic - I'm not religious - but who the next Pope is affects more than just Catholics. By virtue of his position, any statement by any Pope affects some people's thinking and may affect some lives. - Catholic and non-Catholic:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ope-anti-gay-speech_n_2344870.html

"Pope Benedict Takes Anti-Gay Marriage To New Level In Christmas Speech On Family Values"

It may also affect the thinking of Catholic legislators in supposedly secular societies and surely does in Australia.

I'm not Polish, but I am shocked by the statements of Nobel Peace laureate Lech Walensa - that gays should be content to "sit behind a wall."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...3/lech-walesa-gay-rights-criticism

"Lech Walesa accused of hate speech after gay rights criticism

What Catholics believe, what they say and what they do, is up to them. But if it affects my life, or the lives of people I know, then I'll speak out.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 143, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 141):
http://www.scmo.org/articles/statement-from-cardinal-obrien.html

and this

conspiracy from the Daily Mail

BREAKING NEWS: Britain's top Catholic Cardinal O'Brien admits his 'sexual conduct fell well below the standards expected of a priest'

The cleric apologised to those he has 'offended' and asked for forgiveness
He said he is retiring and will play 'no further part' in the Catholic Church
Cardinal O'Brien is accused of 'inappropriate' behaviour by four men
The 74-year-old had resigned as Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh
One of the men, a former priest, says the church has not acted ethically

read more
with pictures
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ell-standards-expected-priest.html

There have to be gays and pedophiles among rabbis, imams, protestant/evangelical pastors, Greek/Russian orthodox popes, buddhist monks... but somehow it seems that only the catholic church is targeted. Unless I am wrong.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 144, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 142):
But if it affects my life, or the lives of people I know, then I'll speak out.

Indeed, earlier in the thread I asked what difference it should make to me one way or another who the next pope is, being a non-catholic. I was given several good arguments for why it matters, then summarily criticized for speaking my views on the subject. Curious, isn't it.         



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 145, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2972 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 143):
There have to be gays and pedophiles among rabbis, imams, protestant/evangelical pastors, Greek/Russian orthodox popes, buddhist monks... but somehow it seems that only the catholic church is targeted. Unless I am wrong.

From my perspective, the Catholic church makes itself a target as in this case. Cardinal O'Brian initially vigorously denied the accusations and has claimed victim status. Now he effectively admits them, all in the space of a week.

I don't think accusers are always holy, but sometimes they are and I would have infinitely more respect for the Cardinal if he had admitted in the first instance.

Where men are there is sex, individual or cooperative, and it is not weakness to admit fallibility.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 146, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 141):
more conspiracy, coming from the Scottish Catholic Media Office
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 141):
even more conspiracy... everything about choosing a new Pope is conspiracy as we all know.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 143):
conspiracy from the Daily Mail

How are these conspiracies? Most of this is just statement of fact. Some of it doesn't even have to do with the Pope. I don't get it          Wow!        



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 147, posted (1 year 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 146):
How are these conspiracies? Most of this is just statement of fact. Some of it doesn't even have to do with the Pope. I don't get it

As if I did not know. It's mostly all from official Italian sources.

Saying these were conspiracies was my answer to this.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 135):
We all can't be feeding at the trough of conspiracy theories and hack jobs on the Vatican. LOL, how boring that would be. Some of us have original thought

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6475 posts, RR: 32
Reply 148, posted (1 year 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 2957 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

And this is why the next Pope will be American:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FymK8Lp87d4


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 149, posted (1 year 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 147):
Saying these were conspiracies was my answer to this.

The only place I recall in the last couple of days of anyone using the conspiracy theory label was about 40 posts above:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 105):
A little conspiracy just for the fun of it. Purely speculative and conspiracist

Were you not making a truthful statement?         



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 150, posted (1 year 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 148):
And this is why the next Pope will be American:

Especial Nochevieja con José Mota 2010 - Un papa americano

Your video is funny I must admit but there is also this

The Pope Song - It's About Time - Resignation Speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ggu5NA-FBFM#!


 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25576 posts, RR: 86
Reply 151, posted (1 year 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting mariner (Reply 145):
Cardinal O'Brian initially vigorously denied the accusations and has claimed victim status. Now he effectively admits them, all in the space of a week.

There is an excellent article in the Guardian about this, written by a woman (I assume Catholic) who claims to know the four complainants:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...l-keith-obrien-sex-scandal-priests

"Cardinal Keith O'Brien: how Britain's Catholic leader fell from grace

Cardinal Keith O'Brien resigned just 36 hours after we reported complaints of inappropriate behaviour by three priests and an ex-priest. Now the story has plunged the church deep into crisis"


And within the article, the writer puts her finger on the nut of the problem - hypocrisy.

"This is not about the exposure of one man's alleged foibles. It is about the exposure of a church official who publicly issues a moral blueprint for others' lives that he is not prepared to live out himself.

Homosexuality is not the issue; hypocrisy is."


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 152, posted (1 year 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Some interesting information here.

Pope's Tailor Ordered to Prepare Clothes for Three Tall Europeans

The official tailor for the pope said Thursday he received orders from the Vatican to prepare three different sizes of mitres, or ceremonial papal hats, and regalia for the next pope, specifically designed for tall European men.

“They have ordered robes for three tall people measuring anywhere between 5’8 and 6 feet tall. None of them are Latino, they are European,” said Luis Abel Delgado, the official papal tailor from his small apartment in Cali, Colombia. His home is decorated with photos of him with Pope Benedict XVI and Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...-for-three-tall-men/#ixzz2MQ13AT9f



Here is an interesting candidate (from Honduras)

The Complexity of Possible Papal Candidate Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga
....
In 2007, Maradiaga was elected president of Caritas Internationalis, the Catholic Church's largest aid network. At Caritas, however, he felt the sting of the Vatican after accusations of working in tandem with relief agencies that may veer from Catholic teachings such as bans on birth control.

....
Still, the Caritas post further enhanced his credentials as a powerful Catholic voice for aid and economic justice, including years as the Vatican's spokesman with the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank on the issue of developing world debt.

...
Chavez called the Honduran cardinal an "imperialist clown" in 2007 after Maradiaga was quoted as saying that Chavez "thinks he's God and can trample upon other people."

read more here:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...rdinal-andres-rodriguez-maradiaga/

I will have to look him up on Twitter and Facebook.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2935 posts, RR: 8
Reply 153, posted (1 year 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 151):
hypocrisy

And that's precisely why I don't bother with religion, especially Catholicism.


The whole idea that men, and women in the church should be celibate, to me at least, is so "unnatural" its not funny. And to top it off, many people (the believers) then go to them for "advice and guidance"

What a complete joke it all is.  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 154, posted (1 year 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

I just foudn out that Maradiaga is an anti-Semite.
Can't be a Christian and an anti-semite. It's contradictory.
The man is not as good as I thought.

Fat chance he will be the next Pope.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20791 posts, RR: 62
Reply 155, posted (1 year 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

LOL, Vatican, the board game. I want one!

This Papal conclave thinks pink



International Homo of Mystery