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Mom Hires Strippers For Sons Bday Party  
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

A mom hired strippers to perform lap dances for her son and his guests at his 16th birthday party....
She wound up getting arrested.... Why couldn't I ever go to parties like this when I was 16...NOT FAIR!


http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/us/new...s-teen-party/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2620 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

And of course, back in the Bay Area, there was this.

  



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7102 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Hahahah mom of the year award!   

Honestly, they gotta look at this whole "age of consent" thing, because people are going all slutty and horn-doggy by the time they're 14 these days, and while i'm not saying that it's about the pedophiles, but rather, if someone gets in trouble like this, or if someone gets busted sexting at their age, they have a sexual-predator labeled on their record for life.... too much.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2096 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

Anyone else notice that the mom is 33 and has a 16 yo child....SMH, babies raising babies

User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
She wound up getting arrested



Great, one more idiot off the streets for a while.

Did she get arrested for being dumb or blond or maybe both !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9094 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4354 times:

What's wrong with "hands on" sex education. 16 is the right age to do it.

This story would attract police over here only oif the party would be too noisy.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3399 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
What's wrong with "hands on" sex education. 16 is the right age to do it.

This story would attract police over here only oif the party would be too noisy.

During the strip show, three girls were fondled under their clothing, said Alameda County Deputy District Attorney Deborah Streicher. She said one 15-year-old paid the dancer, Steve Schmitt, $20 to take off his thong underwear and allow the girl to perform oral sex on him.

On Monday, Schmitt pleaded not guilty to four felony counts of sexual misconduct. The 29-year-old Walnut Creek dancer is free on $100,000 bail. He claims he did not know the girls were underage, because an adult called to set up the engagement. He also has said he was assured all the partygoers were at least 18.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3010 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4277 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

This is way over the top.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Honestly, they gotta look at this whole "age of consent" thing, because people are going all slutty and horn-doggy by the time they're 14 these days, and while i'm not saying that it's about the pedophiles, but rather, if someone gets in trouble like this, or if someone gets busted sexting at their age, they have a sexual-predator labeled on their record for life.... too much.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):

What's wrong with "hands on" sex education. 16 is the right age to do it.

This story would attract police over here only oif the party would be too noisy.

I agree. In this country, age of consent is 16, and I think that's about right. Also, the whole "sex offender" concept in the US should be reviewed in my opinion. I mean, they actually jailed the dancer, and he had to post a $100,000 bail? How crazy is that?

In Switzerland, you get that kind of treatment if you actually rape someone, meaning that someone must not be consenting. Or if someone is under 16, *and* the other person is over 18, *and* someone sues. Common sense, I guess.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Why couldn't I ever go to parties like this when I was 16...NOT FAIR!
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
Hahahah mom of the year award!
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
This is way over the top.
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
the whole "sex offender" concept in the US should be reviewed in my opinion. I mean, they actually jailed the dancer, and he had to post a $100,000 bail? How crazy is that?

  
I agree with all of the above comments. This lady did nothing wrong and the laws in the US need to be reviewed on this matter - as well as many other laws. There are too many laws on the books that make is so easy to end up in jail. This is total b.s.
Leave this lady alone.

The man in the video wearing the glasses seems like he thinks it's b.s. too but is playing along to get on TV.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
This story would attract police over here only oif the party would be too noisy.

...and that's the way it should be!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7):
I mean, they actually jailed the dancer, and he had to post a $100,000 bail? How crazy is that?

Well yeah, the girl was 15 and he was 29, and he let her give him a BJ (in the Pleasanton story in Reply #1), that's statutory rape.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2620 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
This story would attract police over here only oif the party would be too noisy.

I trust you mean "noisy enough," for the cops to find out about it & then join the party.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
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I can't honestly claim that I wouldn't have enjoyed that at 16. However, I'm sort of on the fence about the arrest. It's not particularly great parenting, there are other ways to educate about sex etc, but I think arrest is probably over the top.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinehOmsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4099 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 10):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
This story would attract police over here only oif the party would be too noisy.

I trust you mean "noisy enough," for the cops to find out about it & then join the party.

Exactly what I was thinking. Just think a cheap plot to a porn movie.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

As that great American Larry Flint famously said, "Relax, it's just sex!"...

It's the capitalist system in action. Given the $20 for oral sex, at least one of the strippers was making above minimum wage, and I imagine they all were, $1 at a time. Given how expensive college is, and given how many in the political system don't support public education, we are seeing the inevitable outcome.

I think strippers should complain about the $1 tip tradition. I was first of legal age in 1980 and the traditional tip was $1 back then too. IIRC minimum wage was around $3 back then.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
Anyone else notice that the mom is 33 and has a 16 yo child....SMH, babies raising babies

100 years ago she'd probably have had 3 or 4 pregnancies by the time she was 15.

I don't see what the big deal with hiring a stripper is all about when kids can get all the hard core porn they want off the internet, buy magazines, shag their partners........................I could go on, some parents are just super nieve or looking for a pay day.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
And of course, back in the Bay Area, there was this.

I have symnpathy for the stripper, I guarantee it's next to impossible to tell a dressed up 14/15/16/17 year old form an 18 year old. Although $20 for a bj is pretty steep, if she was cute I'd let her do it for free.


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9094 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 6):
During the strip show, three girls were fondled under their clothing,

I was writing about the opening post, not that old 98 story, in that case, with 14 or 15 year old girls involved, I'd object as well. But jailing the stripper and having him to post 100K bail is way over the top again.

You have too much police in the USA and a prison and legal industry that needs to be employed.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
in that case, with 14 or 15 year old girls involved, I'd object as well.

And I bet those 14 or 15 year old girls all dressed up in party clothes looked 18 or 20.

My sister and my wife were able to get into bars and clubs at 14 or so no problems at all, where as I never had a chance.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

It's the same justice system that will try the same 15-16 yo as adults in criminal cases, go figure !


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Again, the problem with the US justice (in-justice) system is to lock up as many people as possible. Even though her son was 16, the over zealous prosecutors will avenge this case as if it was a 5 year old being molested by an adult forcing the child in to sex. That is just as sickening!
What happened in this case is legal in most of the world.
It bothers me that this young mother could possibly face a harsher penalty and more jail time than a street thug that deliberately does harm to others. Those f--k ups have advocacy groups, community organizers, apologist, public support and media outlets that make excuses for such trash, yet those that make an honest mistake, naive or poor judgement with good intentions will have the book thrown at them.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I can't honestly claim that I wouldn't have enjoyed that at 16.

No offense but aren't you gay? Were you out of the closet or still undecided? The reason I ask is because when I was 16, I REALLY would have enjoyed this!   

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I think arrest is probably over the top.

  

Quoting Aesma (Reply 17):
It's the same justice system that will try the same 15-16 yo as adults in criminal cases, go figure !

As I said before, the justice (injustice) system is always looking for a reason to lock people up.
What's even worse is that most of these dolts in the legal system go on to be come elected politicians in all branches of government - in both parties.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I can't honestly claim that I wouldn't have enjoyed that at 16.

Wow at 16 my friends and I used to cut school and go to strip clubs, looking a naked chicks is what every 16 year old I knew was most interested in. We had no internet back then, which I'm happy about, looking at real naked women is far more interesting than looking at them on a computer; young guys these days are going to miss out on a lot IMO.


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

This is one of those things that has been blown out of proportion. The situation falls under the category of funny news, not terrible mother.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):
looking at real naked women is far more interesting than looking at them on a computer

You are too right. But at least the computer is free! 



Я говорю по-русский. :)
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 20):

You are too right. But at least the computer is free!

Can't get a lap dance from a computer.


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 21):
Can't get a lap dance from a computer.

Laptops   



Я говорю по-русский. :)
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 22):
Laptops

I don't know what rocks your boat but a hot lap from a laptop ain't the same as a hot nude woman on your lap.


User currently offlineFallap From Denmark, joined Jan 2009, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Bless this noble woman. Humanity needs more like her. Hopefully justice will prevail, and she will be cleared of these wrong accusations.

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

If one reads through the various comments inside the OP's linked-article; IMHO, there's one comment that stands out and addresses a few things that many on this thread are overlooking. One of them being that this did not happen in a private area.

Exerpt (bold emphasis added):

It was at a bowling alley. That's not a controlled environment. If you want to do this then have it at your house, not in public. Confirm with the parents of the other children that it's ok; don't assume that everyone has the same moral standards as you.

There is a legal age for this, she consented to her child doing it, but she can't consent to others. Same goes for beer. If she bought it for someone's kid, they get drunk, have an accident and kill someone. She's responsibly for it.


   My sentiments exactly.

Another thing to add; this whole story would not have been known, outside of those who attended the party, if pics weren't taken and posted on Facebook.

That said; one has to ask, "Who's the bigger idiot? The mother for inviting the strippers in a public setting or the kids who took & posted the pics on Facebook?"

[Edited 2013-02-22 14:20:17]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
That said; one has to ask, "Who's the bigger idiot? The mother for inviting the strippers in a public setting or the kids who took & posted the pics on Facebook?"

Depends if you think sex is idiotic or not.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 14):
I don't see what the big deal with hiring a stripper is all about when kids can get all the hard core porn they want off the internet, buy magazines, shag their partners.

Its not so much about the hiring of the stripper per se, but more about the fact that the Mother did it for her son.

I would feel extremely awkward if my mother did that for me at that age, especially if they were also hanging around the party to see "whats going on" ..... Yuk !

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
The reason I ask is because when I was 16, I REALLY would have enjoyed this!
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):
Wow at 16 my friends and I used to cut school and go to strip clubs,

Of cours they did...perfectly normal, but when your parents start getting involved, its another story indeed.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
That said; one has to ask, "Who's the bigger idiot? The mother for inviting the strippers in a public setting or the kids who took & posted the pics on Facebook?"

Both are idiots.... the apple never falls far from the tree !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13469 posts, RR: 62
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3833 times:
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Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
A mom hired strippers to perform lap dances for her son and his guests at his 16th birthday party....

I guess she figured it would be cheaper and earn him more friends than buying him a car.   



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

Deep down, you all know that the mother was very wrong and broke reasonable laws in her hosting this party where she provided basically prostitution to the minor boys as well as serving alcohol to minors. Now I don't believe she should get jail time, but I bet she has or will lose her job (if employed). I also think their is a yuck factor with your mom or your friends mom helping you get sexual arousal.

User currently onlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2620 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

I don't have the URL for that thing that DocLightning so often posts. If he were here, and if the subject were male strippers, we'd surely see the ol

THIS.
THREAD.
IS.
USELESS.
WITHOUT.
PICS!!!!!

sign.

:D



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
If one reads through the various comments inside the OP's linked-article; IMHO, there's one comment that stands out and addresses a few things that many on this thread are overlooking. One of them being that this did not happen in a private area.

Exerpt (bold emphasis added):

It was at a bowling alley. That's not a controlled environment. If you want to do this then have it at your house, not in public. Confirm with the parents of the other children that it's ok; don't assume that everyone has the same moral standards as you.

A more up-to-date report says:

Quote:

The birthday party took place in a room at the Spare Time Bowling Center and had 80 people in attendance, the Daily News reported, including other parents.

So it seems to have been a fairly controlled environment with more than just one parent present.

Ref: http://abcnews.go.com/US/mom-alleged...s-birthday-party/story?id=18549491



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 30):
THIS.
THREAD.
IS.
USELESS.
WITHOUT.
PICS!!!!!



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 30):

Where is Doc? But I believe if you had pics of the stripper doing things to underage guys we'd probably get a visit by the party van...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 34, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3696 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27):
Its not so much about the hiring of the stripper per se, but more about the fact that the Mother did it for her son.

I can't work out why that is a problem.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
I can't work out why that is a problem.


The very idea that sex is on the mind of your mother.... and she's thinking of you.. I find it a bit off putting.
And would you really want to be in the same room as your mother, or for that matter, somebody else's mother/father while some stripper is rubbing her moush all over you.....

No thanks.

[Edited 2013-02-22 22:55:25]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 36, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3594 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 35):
The very idea that sex is on the mind of your mother.... and she's thinking of you.. I find it a bit off putting.

I think it's considerably healthier than the relationship than I had with my mother - or my father - neither of whom would even discuss sex with me, even if I tried to start it.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 35):
And would you really want to be in the same room as your mother, or for that matter, somebody else's mother/father while some stripper is rubbing her moush all over you.....

That stripper would have been a bloke in my case, and I think it would have been fantastic if my parents - either or both - could have coped with it.

I remember the world in which I grew up with affection, but it was all behind closed doors and secrets and whispers - and lies.

I think what happened here may be much more honest.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
I think it's considerably healthier than the relationship than I had with my mother - or my father - neither of whom would even discuss sex with me, even if I tried to start it.

Well, I'm sorry about that Mariner, but times were different then, and its all relative to the time we live I suppose.

I know full well that my parents have an enjoyable sex life, because sometimes my mother hints that "she had a nice cuddle with my father, but that doesn't mean that I sit down at the table and have a discussion about it, that's there business, and that's all that has to/needs to be said.

And I'd imagine that most kids at 14/15/16 would feel a sense of uneasy discussing anything remotely to do with sex and parents

For example, my best friend once described how his mother walked in on him jerking off in his bedroom one day, he was 15 at the time, he's 43 these days and still cringes when he thinks back about it, and so would I. Some things are better not witnessed, and I think what this mother did in this particular case was perhaps one of those times ?

I understand what you mean generally about being open and the like, but ......

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
I think what happened here may be much more honest.

Maybe it is ?

Look, by all means, get the kid a stripper for his birthday, buy him a hooker for his 21st, whatever, but do the parents have to be there to watch the "action"....

I/m not too sure about that ?

[Edited 2013-02-23 01:38:28]

[Edited 2013-02-23 01:39:08]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):
I know full well that my parents have an enjoyable sex life, because sometimes my mother hints that "she had a nice cuddle with my father, but that doesn't mean that I sit down at the table and have a discussion about it, that's there business, and that's all that has to/needs to be said.

And I'd imagine that most kids at 14/15/16 would feel a sense of uneasy discussing anything remotely to do with sex and parents

I'm not getting how your lack of comfort about communicating about sex with your parents has anything to do with this parent and her son.

Personally, I don't think there's any 'right way' and I don't see how jail time for this mom is going to fix anything.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 39, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting Fallap (Reply 24):
Hopefully justice will prevail, and she will be cleared of these wrong accusations.

She may end up paying a huge fine simply because the government is broke at all levels.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27):
I would feel extremely awkward if my mother did that for me at that age, especially if they were also hanging around the party to see "whats going on" ..... Yuk !

When I was a kid I did lots of camping with my parents and once, in Italy we befriended that Nordic family that was very involved in the sexual education of their 15 yo daughter, basically they put condoms in her hand and send her fuck, seemed a bit strange to us but I guess it can work.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 40):
When I was a kid I did lots of camping with my parents and once, in Italy we befriended that Nordic family that was very involved in the sexual education of their 15 yo daughter, basically they put condoms in her hand and send her fuck, seemed a bit strange to us but I guess it can work.

Damn, why couldn't I meet those kind of girls when I was in high school?!?!?!?!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
Quoting mariner (Reply 36):

I'm sure healthy parent-child discussions and attitudes towards sex can exist, but even if it is strange to you, the awkwardness is very much alive in a whole lotta people. I'm not saying either is right or wrong but both views need to be respected, not just discarded because one disagrees with it.

That's how it was in this case... the mother obviously did not care, but some of the other kids' parents did. We can debate who was right and wrong all day, but what is wrong with just accepting that others may be uncomfortable and simply communicate with them and warn them, letting them decide if their kids should participate or not?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 40):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27):
I would feel extremely awkward if my mother did that for me at that age, especially if they were also hanging around the party to see "whats going on" ..... Yuk !

When I was a kid I did lots of camping with my parents and once, in Italy we befriended that Nordic family that was very involved in the sexual education of their 15 yo daughter, basically they put condoms in her hand and send her fuck, seemed a bit strange to us but I guess it can work.

It's one thing for you to want your children to practice safe sex, it's another thing to hire a stripper for your 16 year-old son's birthday party.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3453 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):
Well, I'm sorry about that Mariner, but times were different then, and its all relative to the time we live I suppose.

Of course.

My grandfather died when my grandmother was still quite young and my grandmother took a female partner for the rest of her life. Her children - my mother and uncles - were appalled, would never discuss it and when the two women were old and infirm forced them apart to die separated from each other.

I was forty before my mother could even admit the truth of the relationship to me. I could wish my family has been as open and honest as this family appears to be.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 42):
That's how it was in this case... the mother obviously did not care, but some of the other kids' parents did.

  

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-23 09:49:41]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27):
I would feel extremely awkward if my mother did that for me at that age, especially if they were also hanging around the party to see "whats going on" ..... Yuk !

So would I, but there are kids who wouldn't, and I'm not going to judge them by my own moral standards.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 29):
Deep down, you all know that the mother was very wrong and broke reasonable laws in her hosting this party where she provided basically prostitution to the minor boys as well as serving alcohol to minors.

First of all, the "endangering the welfare of a child" law in New York is not reasonable. I know this from serving on a jury where a case involving the law came up, and when the law was read out I was amazed at how broad the interpretation of what could endanger the welfare of a child was. She may have broken the law, but that doesn't make the law reasonable.

Second of all, I'm not convinced that hiring strippers for a 16th birthday party really is wrong. I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't make it wrong. It's crazy how uptight the US culture gets about sex - I know we're all here because some Puritans decided to cross the pond, but we really need to get a grip on reality.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
It's crazy how uptight the US culture gets about sex

That is very true. Combined that with our societies lust to 'go after' someone, judge them in the court of public opinion, a media hell-bent on sensationalism, overzealous law enforcement and politicians that want to make a name for themselves by either 'getting tough' on crime or 'protecting the children'.
As far as the state of New York goes, is anything legal there anymore?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5372 posts, RR: 8
Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 29):
Deep down, you all know that the mother was very wrong and broke reasonable laws in her hosting this party where she provided basically prostitution to the minor boys as well as serving alcohol to minors. Now I don't believe she should get jail time, but I bet she has or will lose her job (if employed). I also think their is a yuck factor with your mom or your friends mom helping you get sexual arousal.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Quoting Airstud (Reply 30):
THIS.
THREAD.
IS.
USELESS.
WITHOUT.
PICS!!!!!

Mom:

Mom with son:

Son with mom's present:

Mom after reporting of son's present:
Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
First of all, the "endangering the welfare of a child" law in New York is not reasonable. I know this from serving on a jury where a case involving the law came up, and when the law was read out I was amazed at how broad the interpretation of what could endanger the welfare of a child was. She may have broken the law, but that doesn't make the law reasonable.

Second of all, I'm not convinced that hiring strippers for a 16th birthday party really is wrong. I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't make it wrong. It's crazy how uptight the US culture gets about sex - I know we're all here because some Puritans decided to cross the pond, but we really need to get a grip on reality.

Yes I agree, we very much overreact about sexual stuff here in the USA. However it appears that the mom grossly erred by not making sure (and getting signed releases) that all the parents were OK with the strippers and in ensuring that alcohol was not an issue. Those are two very valid points. But as others have mentioned, arresting, charging, and jailing the mom will really do nothing to help improve or make society safer. This is sexual and sexual objectification, but is it any worse than a laser tag party where people have fun hunting and shooting people? No one is getting hurt. Imagine holding a laser tag party in Columbine or now in Sandyhook. It may me be grossly stupid but it is not really hurting someone physically of very different from many other other parties.

Mom may have been criminally stupid but that is really the worst of her "crime". This is mostly a waste of time and money and her life.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineN751PR From United States of America, joined May 2002, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

I swear I was having deja vu when I saw this thread!  

Mom Indicted For Hiring Stripper For Teen (by CORULEZ05 May 29 2005 in Non Aviation)

Couple Hire Stripper For Son's Birthday (by Clickhappy Jul 8 2005 in Non Aviation)

Mom Sends Stripper To Schoolboy's Classroom (by SkyGourmet Nov 9 2007 in Non Aviation)



Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour.You will get two approaches for the price of one.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 42):
We can debate who was right and wrong all day, but what is wrong with just accepting that others may be uncomfortable and simply communicate with them and warn them, letting them decide if their kids should participate or not?

  

Quoting tugger (Reply 47):
Mom may have been criminally stupid but that is really the worst of her "crime". This is mostly a waste of time and money and her life.

Some people should be locked up for there own good.   

Quoting tugger (Reply 47):
This is mostly a waste of time and money and her life.

And lets not forget about the son and the embarrassment and humiliation he must be going through.

BTW
Why is his face blurred out in the pics ?



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 50, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3184 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 49):
And lets not forget about the son and the embarrassment and humiliation he must be going through.

Or anger perhaps - at his mom getting locked up.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 49):
And lets not forget about the son and the embarrassment and humiliation he must be going through.

I would definitely be embarrassed if I were him, though it seems like him and his mom differed from us... the fact that she would do this indicates that they probably don't feel awkward about it, so I could see him not feeling awkward about the stripper but:

Quoting mariner (Reply 50):
at his mom getting locked up.

Who knows. I am not too sure where I lie with all this, but I'm leaning towards more liberal attitudes (liberal as in free not as in democrat) for 16 year olds and strippers and porn or whatever. I also am leaning towards parents' discretion, IDK



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
And of course, back in the Bay Area, there was this.

From what I see:

A boy getting female strippers is hecka cool but a girl getting male strippers is the worst thing ever.

What adults do with their money and bodies is none of my business. But, when children are involved, that's where I draw the line. If mom bought strippers for her son's 18th birthday, who cares? He is, AFAIK, a minor at 16. The strippers were breaking the law if they exposed themselves during the gathering.

A few years ago, I took my brother to Hooters. We were both over 21, so I didn't care about that. I did, however, feel VERY uneasy that there was a birthday party for an (guessing the age) 11 year old boy!! WTF??? Even if he and his friends go in at 16 and have wings at Hooters, that's one thing. But, at 11 years old?

To sum up what I understand:

Boys getting strippers good. Girls getting strippers bad.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3126 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 50):
Or anger perhaps - at his mom getting locked up.

Could be too, who knows ?

But one thing is for sure, and that is, that his mothers actions directly affected "many" kids there, not only her own ?

And she should think about that I think.

I find the entire thing quite cheap and degrading to some extent.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 52):
Even if he and his friends go in at 16 and have wings at Hooters, that's one thing. But, at 11 years old?

Yes.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3118 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 40):
in Italy we befriended that Nordic family that was very involved in the sexual education of their 15 yo daughter, basically they put condoms in her hand and send her fuck

That is very unusual in this day and age. Scandinavians aren't as liberal as they used to be.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 49):
BTW
Why is his face blurred out in the pics ?

Because he's a minor, most likely, even though he's not charged in this.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 52):
To sum up what I understand:

Boys getting strippers good. Girls getting strippers bad.

I don't think it's all that cut and dried. One of the big problems with the girl's party in the '98 article was that one of the minor girls paid the stripper $20 to allow her to give him a BJ.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 29):
Now I don't believe she should get jail time, but I bet she has or will lose her job (if employed).

Seriously, what does her employer have to do with this ?!


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7034 posts, RR: 3
Reply 57, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 52):

A boy getting female strippers is hecka cool but a girl getting male strippers is the worst thing ever.

Who said that?


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 58, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 56):
Seriously, what does her employer have to do with this ?!

Because, it might go towards establishing the fact that the woman has very poor judgement, and this may effect her work, especially if she has to make important/difficult decisions ?



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 59, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 56):
Seriously, what does her employer have to do with this ?!

While not altogether common, some employers have morality clauses as part of their employment agreements. They kick in if what you've done in your private life would cause negative publicity to be associated with the company.

We don't know what the mother does for a living, though, so it's difficult to tell if this would be a factor or not.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3098 posts, RR: 9
Reply 60, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Looks like the parent ultimately taught her son that a woman's body is nothing more than a toy that can be bought. If the son wants to pay for sex, let him do it on his own. A parent has a responsibility to teach something much more significant.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 61, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 49):
Some people should be locked up for there own good.

Does that include yourself?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 49):
And lets not forget about the son and the embarrassment and humiliation he must be going through.

Or he thinks it's weird that everyone's throwing such a hissy fit.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 52):
A few years ago, I took my brother to Hooters. We were both over 21, so I didn't care about that. I did, however, feel VERY uneasy that there was a birthday party for an (guessing the age) 11 year old boy!! WTF??? Even if he and his friends go in at 16 and have wings at Hooters, that's one thing. But, at 11 years old?

Right, they should go to a place where there are no females, or only ones that wear burkas.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 62, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3003 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 61):
Right, they should go to a place where there are no females, or only ones that wear burkas.

Seriously? You must know perfectly well that there's a world of difference between being around females in general, and being in an establishment where sexy outfits and a sexual atmosphere are pretty much the entire focus of the business. Pretty ridiculous resorting to the burka comment, it bears no comparison whatsoever.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 63, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 60):
Looks like the parent ultimately taught her son that a woman's body is nothing more than a toy that can be bought.

You don't know if that is what she taught. That is just your opinion. I'm not a stripper kind of person, but I believe you can have harmless, stupid fun while still respecting women. Now I'm not saying that's what his mom taught, but she could have for all we know



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 64, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 62):
it bears no comparison whatsoever

They are both about government regulation of sex.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 65, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Honestly? This seems pretty harmless. Why the police would be involved is most likely a prurient interest on their part.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 66, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2944 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 64):
They are both about government regulation of sex.

In an absurdly broad sense, yes. In terms of the actual thing under discussion there, barely any relevance.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 67, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 66):
In an absurdly broad sense, yes. In terms of the actual thing under discussion there, barely any relevance.

Maybe in your mind, but I don't see a difference between the government deciding how much clothes a female must wear and how little she can wear and what age a male must be to look at a female based on what she is wearing.

As you say, " Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ".



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 68, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

We have come a long way from the days of my maturing, and my children's. I cannot fathom what this woman was thinking. What was she trying to teach? I think the lesson taught is that she will never learn good parenting. She is an example of an air head parent. Unfortunately we now have countless millions of them.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 69, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 57):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 52):
A boy getting female strippers is hecka cool but a girl getting male strippers is the worst thing ever.
Who said that?

That seems to be the mindset in society.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 61):
Right, they should go to a place where there are no females, or only ones that wear burkas.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 64):
They are both about government regulation of sex.

I don't understand what you are talking about.

There are many more appropriate venues for an 11 year olds' birthday party. Hooters is not one of them. The whole point of Hooters is to objectify women. They are adults and if that is what they want to do, so be it. The men go in to leer at them. If that's what they want to do, so be it. But, there should be a line somewhere about children engaging in such activity. Wonder why there are so many single mothers? Taking your kid to Hooters is where it starts.

Again: if consenting adults want to trade money for a fantasy, I have no problem with that. I would never do it, but what goes on between consenting adults is none of my business. I am talking about children. The right talks a good game about morality and charicter, but when it comes right down to it, it is just hot air. They don't care as long as they get theirs.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 70, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2893 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 67):
As you say, " Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ".

Indeed. We can of course discuss the logic though.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 67):

Maybe in your mind, but I don't see a difference between the government deciding how much clothes a female must wear and how little she can wear and what age a male must be to look at a female based on what she is wearing.

I'm not sure why there is any comparison between the issue of religiously-dictated dress standards for women in some countries, and the issue of whether children should be protected from overt sexualisation at a very young age. It's not the same issue. Can you explain the relevance any clearer?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 71, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 60):
A parent has a responsibility to teach something much more significant.

One would have thought so, unfortunately not in this case.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 61):
Does that include yourself?

Not really sure where you are going with this....?

But yes, if I was that bloody stupid, I think I'd hand myself into the cops, save them the bother of coming after me

Quoting Revelation (Reply 61):
Or he thinks it's weird that everyone's throwing such a hissy fit.

Then he must be a silly as his mother, perhaps he should join his mother.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 63):
Now I'm not saying that's what his mom taught, but she could have for all we know

And that is just opinion too.

I'd say its a safe bet that's exactly what the mother has taught, or at the least is portraying to her son as acceptable, and other peoples children, by the actions she undertook that night...

shes' more or less condoning underage drinking and lured behavior. Not very wise if you want to instill any sort of morals into young kids IMHO.Jesus, kids these day are so easily leed astray, parents don't need to add to all the BS out there.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 67):
Maybe in your mind, but I don't see a difference between the government deciding how much clothes a female must wear and how little she can wear and what age a male must be to look at a female based on what she is wearing.

By all means, let her decide what values (or lack there of) she decides to teach her child, but she has no business subjecting other peoples kids to what she thinks of acceptable.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 68):
She is an example of an air head parent. Unfortunately we now have countless millions of them.

There are many out the who believe that before becoming a parent, you must obtain a "permit" like a dog registration or such

And in this particular case, i must agree. Very poor judgement indeed.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 69):
I don't understand what you are talking about.

Nor do I really. He's jumping all over the place, from Government regulation to Burkas ?



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 72, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 69):
There are many more appropriate venues for an 11 year olds' birthday party. Hooters is not one of them.

It's not the government's role to say, IMHO.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 69):
The whole point of Hooters is to objectify women.

I disagree. The idea is to have fun, and if pretty women make you happy, so be it. I've been at Hooters maybe 4-5 times in my life, and am amazed at how many females enjoy going there. If was a place that existed to objectify women, I doubt that'd be the case, and in any case, it's not up to me. I've also been there when there have been groups of teenaged boys there and I thought it wasn't appropriate, but that's just my opinion and I wouldn't have wanted them or their parents in legal trouble because of it.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
the issue of religiously-dictated dress standards for women in some countries

In some countries, it very much is government dictated.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
the issue of whether children should be protected from overt sexualisation at a very young age

That's something the parents should be addressing, not the legal system, IMHO. In this case there were other parents there, and if they objected, they should have taken their kids and gone home. If other parents were upset that this woman chose objectionable entertainment for their kids without their knowledge or consent, they should take it up with this woman instead of the legal system, IMHO.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
Can you explain the relevance any clearer?

I hope I just did.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 73, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2841 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 72):
In some countries, it very much is government dictated.

Oh sure, I meant that it's usually religiously-driven in origin though. Of course it becomes law in many countries.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 72):
That's something the parents should be addressing, not the legal system, IMHO. In this case there were other parents there, and if they objected, they should have taken their kids and gone home. If other parents were upset that this woman chose objectionable entertainment for their kids without their knowledge or consent, they should take it up with this woman instead of the legal system, IMHO.

But specifically with regard to taking an 11-year-old to Hooters, I think there need to be limits. It's a little utopian to trust every parent out there to be responsible enough to protect their children adequately. It's plainly obvious there are some sucky parents out there - why shouldn't this be protected against by the state to some degree?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 74, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 72):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 69):There are many more appropriate venues for an 11 year olds' birthday party. Hooters is not one of them.
It's not the government's role to say, IMHO.

I never said anything about the government and Hooters.

It would be nice if you would read what I wrote. It's there for everyone to see. But, I will say it again. Not that you will see it again:

Government has very little to do with Hooters. Government and Hooters cross paths over alcohol sales and food safety. Not dress codes. We all know that. We all understand that.

What I have a problem with are stupid parents. Again: very little the government can do. Stupid parents generally raise stupid kids. Parents who teach their children that women are nothing more than objects and playthings are sometimes the same parents who are outraged their son has six different kids by four different women and has been divorced three times before he is 30.

Read my qualifiers.

If adults enjoy going to Hooters, fine. I don't care. None of my business. I went once. I didn't see the attraction. Neither did my straight brother. Just like with Five Guys. I went once, didn't understand the attraction and have never gone back. Other people go all the time. None of my business.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):
It's plainly obvious there are some sucky parents out there - why shouldn't this be protected against by the state to some degree?

Some places do. Las Vegas allows minors in certain areas. Some sucky parents will drag their kids into those regulated areas. No harm from kids seeing a few slot machines? Not until they see mommy or daddy lose their house or until the kid wanders off because mommy or daddy has been playing the slots for hours.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 75, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 74):
Just like with Five Guys

Lol... Seb, besides the name, I don't think there was anything intentionally gay with Five Guys  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 76, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 75):
Lol... Seb, besides the name, I don't think there was anything intentionally gay with Five Guys

LOL There was really no other way to word that!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 77, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 71):
Not really sure where you are going with this....?

People getting thrown in jail for what amounts to vague and arbitrary reasons.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):
But specifically with regard to taking an 11-year-old to Hooters, I think there need to be limits. It's a little utopian to trust every parent out there to be responsible enough to protect their children adequately. It's plainly obvious there are some sucky parents out there - why shouldn't this be protected against by the state to some degree?

We all draw the line as to where the government should step in at different point.

To me it's interesting how many people here are convinced that this is an evil that the government must step in and fix.

Others would feel it would be just as evil if this mother took the same kids out to a rifle range and introduced them to guns.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 74):
I never said anything about the government and Hooters.

Right, but this whole thread is about the fact that this woman was arrested and is being prosecuted. No arrest, no thread.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 74):
It would be nice if you would read what I wrote.

I did, and I commented on it, and you ignored that, and chose to make a snide comment instead.

Oh well...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 77):
I did, and I commented on it

You commented on something you thought you saw.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 77):
you ignored that, and chose to make a snide comment instead.

About how you thought I said something about 11 year olds being regulated against going to Hooters when I said nothing of the sort?

Again: read. I never said anything about wanting the government to stop 11 year olds from going to Hooters. I don't think it was right he was there, but I never ever said anything about wanting the government to regulate kids at Hooters.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 77):
this whole thread is about the fact that this woman was arrested and is being prosecuted. No arrest, no thread.

The sex industry is regulated with regards to age. Most places, people need to be 18. Yes, people can watch porn online and, sure there are some "independant contractors" who don't ask for proof of age. In Portland, there are a couple of strip clubs that are 18 and over. The others are 21 and over. Why 18? Oregon law recognized the age of consent as being 18. But, from what I read in this thread, people should be allowed to take their kids to strip clubs no matter what age the child.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5372 posts, RR: 8
Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 53):
But one thing is for sure, and that is, that his mothers actions directly affected "many" kids there, not only her own ?

And she should think about that I think.

Everything we do or is done around us "directly affects" myriad other people, You writing here is "affecting" other people. So OK it, affected others, but that is very different from being charged with a crime. Again, parents were there with the children this was not an unsupervised event.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 53):
I find the entire thing quite cheap and degrading to some extent.

It may be, but does that rise to the level of a crime? One that you can be jailed for? Maybe a ticket and fine at most but the level this appears to be at is silly in my opinion.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 60):
Looks like the parent ultimately taught her son that a woman's body is nothing more than a toy that can be bought. If the son wants to pay for sex, let him do it on his own. A parent has a responsibility to teach something much more significant.

Actually, that is a fact taught to people by the women themselves. Women here are free to choose what they wish to do with their bodies for the most part. And in many places if women wish to use their bodies and sex to make money they are free to do so. The mom did not teach that to anyone, we all already know this. Are you saying that women should not be free too do what they wish with their bodies?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 62):
Seriously? You must know perfectly well that there's a world of difference between being around females in general, and being in an establishment where sexy outfits and a sexual atmosphere are pretty much the entire focus of the business. Pretty ridiculous resorting to the burka comment, it bears no comparison whatsoever.

Except where do you draw that line? And who draws that line and makes the decisions on what is acceptable and what is a crime?

The whole thing for me is that I do not feel the frenzy that has occurred is justifiable. This is not something I would do for my kids and if someone did this with my kids without my consent we would have some serious words about how irresponsible and stupid they were. But to put public resources to this is a waste, it does not deserve to rise to the level of importance it appears to have achieved.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 78):
Again: read. I never said anything about wanting the government to stop 11 year olds from going to Hooters.

Except that you said:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 69):
But, there should be a line somewhere about children engaging in such activity. Wonder why there are so many single mothers? Taking your kid to Hooters is where it starts.

What is that "line"? How is it enforced?
The way it is phrased by you it implies it should not be allowed which means a rules/laws that it is not OK. Perhaps you meant it should just be societal pressure that enforces it but to a large part it already does. Most people do not take their 11 year old to hooters directly because their are many people that disapprove of it.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 4
Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2556 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 58):
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 56):
Seriously, what does her employer have to do with this ?!

Because, it might go towards establishing the fact that the woman has very poor judgement, and this may effect her work, especially if she has to make important/difficult decisions ?



Or, could be problematic if she works at some place like Chick-Fil-A (or other similar company) where they are a Christian based family business and word gets out (like it always does) that their employer is doing said things.

135mech


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2532 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 79):
Except where do you draw that line? And who draws that line and makes the decisions on what is acceptable and what is a crime?

Always going to be tricky deciding the minutiae of the thin end of the wedge, but I don't think that should put anyone off making some sensible rules. Keeping children away from strip joints, alcohol-fuelled environments and gambling establishments for example seems a good thing to do. It's a shame that it should be necessary to even point this out to some people, but any number of news items suggest that it is. There are some shocking levels of parenting out there. As for who draws that line, well that would be the relevant competent authority working on behalf of the relevant democratically-elected government.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 82, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 78):
You commented on something you thought you saw.

No, my comments were in the context of the thread.

Let's go through this. The area of misunderstanding is:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 72):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 69):
There are many more appropriate venues for an 11 year olds' birthday party. Hooters is not one of them.
It's not the government's role to say, IMHO.


You can chose to interpret this two ways:

a) I'm saying that you said something about "wanting the government to stop 11 year olds from going to Hooters"

b) I'm using your comment about Hooters in the context of a thread about the government prosecuting a mother for bringing strippers to a birthday party to say the government should stay out of that situation as well, regardless of what you said.

You are reading (a) whereas I'm meaning (b).

Quoting seb146 (Reply 78):
Again: read.

Why are you are being so nasty about this?

Are you having a bad day?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 82):
Why are you are being so nasty about this?

Are you having a bad day?

I am not understanding why you do not understand that I know, believe, and understand that taking an 11 year old to Hooters is not up to the government. However, you twisted it around to make me look like that.

Quoting tugger (Reply 79):
What is that "line"? How is it enforced?

Again: Taking an 11 year old to Hooters is not something that should be regulated by the government.

I have said it 16 ways to Sunday. I have a headache from beating my head against this wall.

It is a moral issue. If parents who claim to have moral fiber take their 11 year old kid to Hooters, buy him strippers and porn as he grows up, they should not be upset when that same kid becomes a father at 14 and keeps making babies by different women.

There is, however, a very clear line about strippers and the age at which they are allowed and who is allowed to view them. Most jurisdictions in the United States that age is 18. Most businesses ignore that and just go with 21. I know in Oregon, everyone has their ID checked at the door. If anyone is under age, they are turned away. And, yes, there are strip clubs in Oregon where 18 and older are allowed, with proper ID.

That is not any place I care to go, but I know everyone is of age, so I don't care who is there.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5467 posts, RR: 13
Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

And I didn't get my invite? I'm a wee bit p.o'd. I'd be the life of the party and handle those strippers.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 85, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
I think it's considerably healthier than the relationship than I had with my mother - or my father - neither of whom would even discuss sex with me, even if I tried to start it.

There's a big difference between a parent discussing sex with their child and paying for strippers to attend their birthday party. Seems to me this mother was wanting to be her sons buddy and not his mom.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 86, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 85):
Seems to me this mother was wanting to be her sons buddy and not his mom.

   Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 14):
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
Anyone else notice that the mom is 33 and has a 16 yo child....SMH, babies raising babies

100 years ago she'd probably have had 3 or 4 pregnancies by the time she was 15.
And she would also be married and her husband would be working to bring home the proverbial bacon. This teen culture/lifestyle as we know it only existed for the last 60 to 70 years or so.

"With great power/privilege comes great responsibility." -quote from the Spiderman comic strip/series.

Which brings up the question... where's the kid's father in all this?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 31):
A more up-to-date report says:

Quote:

The birthday party took place in a room at the Spare Time Bowling Center and had 80 people in attendance, the Daily News reported, including other parents.

So it seems to have been a fairly controlled environment with more than just one parent present.

2 things:

1. Do you happen to have a link that displays that updated report?

2. Be that as it may, that still doesn't absolve a host or an establishment for allowing illegal activity involving minors to take place in one of their rooms... even with parental consent. If 16-year olds aren't allowed to enter strip clubs (save the merits of & reasons for such laws for another thread), why would it be considered legally okay to allow similar activity at another public establishment... even in a separate room?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):"Who's the bigger idiot? The mother for inviting the strippers in a public setting or the kids who took & posted the pics on Facebook?"

Depends if you think sex is idiotic or not.

IMHO, if these kids are mature enough to have sex that age; then they should be mature enough not to post certain legally questionable or incriminating photos on a social network website. If there was indeed more than one parent present per your updated article (source link request please) and they were the ones that complained. Their reasoning may not be for what took place that day, but rather what got posted on Facebook without their knowledge nor consent.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 87, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 86):
then they should be mature enough not to post certain legally questionable or incriminating photos on a social network website.

Not that it excuses anything, but I see some adults post some crazy stuff on Facebook... it's not an age-related maturity thing, it's a different type of maturity



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 88, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 87):
Not that it excuses anything, but I see some adults post some crazy stuff on Facebook... it's not an age-related maturity thing, it's a different type of maturity

Then this is perhaps where some "Government regulation" comes into it... Dare I say the two words together !

There a plenty of stupid people out and about in the big bad world, and there's no way in hell they are all going to act responsibility, you simply have to have standards set by society and implemented by Government.

That's how it woks in any civil society.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 89, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 88):

Are you saying you want the government to regulate what you put on FB??? I think I'm misunderstanding your post



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 90, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 89):
I think I'm misunderstanding your post

More to do with what Revelation and Seb 146 were on about. Whats a suitable age to go to strip clubs and alcohol serving venues, and the general laws around such place and minors.

But yeah, some of the stupid things that people do on FB and the trouble it causes. Like posting open ended invitations to birthdays etc, where 100's of people turn up and trash the place, police are called and it cause massive disruption the the entire neighborhood. It's happened many times here on OZ.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 91, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2215 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 88):
There a plenty of stupid people out and about in the big bad world, and there's no way in hell they are all going to act responsibility, you simply have to have standards set by society and implemented by Government.

When I was a bit younger - until I was forty in fact - the "standards set by society" made me a criminal liable for prison sentence if convicted for having sex with my own kind.

When I was a bit younger, one of my mates did go to jail for six months for diddling with a bloke.

You have your "standards of society" - I have mine. I suspect that never the twain shall meet.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 92, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 91):
I suspect that never the twain shall meet.

You'd be surprised !

Mariner, You are a worldly man, surely you recognize the fact that society's attitudes, about all sorts of things, change over time. I'm sorry that you feel badly done by, because, sexuality wise, things weren't as open when you were younger as they are now....but that can be said for most things in this life.

I traveled around Tasmania some years ago now, with a friend, we shared hotel rooms and beds sometimes, to save money, I suppose we could have gotten into hot water with Tasmania's laws covering Homosexuality. But it didn't stop us from going there, and now of course things are completely different and "standards set by society" are now accepted by most, without a second thought.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 93, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 91):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 92):

I think a big difference is age of consent. Have no problem with 2 adult males bumpin nasties, but what about 2 14 year old boys? Boys will be boys... a 14 year old boy and 30 year old guy? Don't think so. A 17 year old boy and 30 year old guy? Maybe. Having strippers for 16 year olds? Another maybe. Having strippers with other parents' 16 year olds... is it in the 16 year olds' hands yet, or should the parents still decide?

There are many layers to this



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24952 posts, RR: 85
Reply 94, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2165 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 92):
Mariner, You are a worldly man, surely you recognize the fact that society's attitudes, about all sorts of things, change over time. I'm sorry that you feel badly done by, because, sexuality wise, things weren't as open when you were younger as they are now....but that can be said for most things in this life.

I don't feel badly done by - LOL - quite the reverse. I loved my my younger days and being "out" despite being a putative criminal. We sure had fun (and some of that involved cops), but probably everyone does when they're young.

I'm just picking up on your "standards of society" and based on your comments on this thread I don't think your views on that will ever gel with mine.

What this Mom did may have been tacky, but I'm not the tacky police. It may have been ill-advised - but a lot of people do a lot of ill-advised things every day.

She may be white trash up the wazoo, but hey, that's life, I have a lot of white trash friends, some of whom do worse things than this mother ever did.

I don't believe she should be in jail for what she did.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 95, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
I don't feel badly done by

Good, nothing worse than bad memories of things past.

Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
I don't believe she should be in jail for what she did.

Nor do I for a moment. If I inferred that previously then its my mistake.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 93):
There are many layers to this

Aint life complicated !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 96, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 95):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 93):There are many layers to this
Aint life complicated !

There are many layers to many issues regulated by the government.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 97, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 86):
Do you happen to have a link that displays that updated report?

Well given that it really was a quote, you could just have plugged it into a search engine:

https://www.google.com/search?q=The+birthday+party+took+place+in+a+room+at+the+Spare+Time+Bowling+Center

First hit.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 86):
Be that as it may, that still doesn't absolve a host or an establishment for allowing illegal activity involving minors to take place in one of their rooms

I guess you are after more government prosecutions for what is in essence a social crime?

Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
I don't feel badly done by - LOL - quite the reverse. I loved my my younger days and being "out" despite being a putative criminal.

Glad your government didn't force you to submit to chemical castration like Alan Turing.

Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
What this Mom did may have been tacky, but I'm not the tacky police. It may have been ill-advised - but a lot of people do a lot of ill-advised things every day.

She may be white trash up the wazoo, but hey, that's life, I have a lot of white trash friends, some of whom do worse things than this mother ever did.

I don't believe she should be in jail for what she did.

Me too.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 98, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 97):
Well given that it really was a quote, you could just have plugged it into a search engine:

2 things:

1. Thanks for posting the link, it lists some other evidence that could be viewed as more incriminatiing (I will get to that in a minute).

2. With all due respect, you've been w/A.net long enough to know that if there is an outside source/article and one is posting either a quote or excerpt; it is common courtesy (in the Aviation forum, almost expected) to post the link if one's available. While this particular link was the first Google hit, that isn't always the case with other links or stories.

Additionally, your link provides some other items/insights not yet fully discussed.

Excerpt from the first paragraph (bold emphasis added):

The birthday party took place in early November, but racy pictures surfaced on Facebook this month, causing a parent whose son was at the party to alert local police.
My guess would be either that particular parent wasn't present at the party or was present but was not to pleased about the party pics surfacing on Facebook.

Further down (again, bold emphasis added):

Police say that five of the attendees were younger than 17, and according to the New York Daily News, some were as young as 13.
No comment other than this event, while in a separate room of an establishment, did not take place at the privacy of one's home.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 97):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 86):
Be that as it may, that still doesn't absolve a host or an establishment for allowing illegal activity involving minors to take place in one of their rooms

I guess you are after more government prosecutions for what is in essence a social crime?

Like it or not, the law is the law. If you want them changed/repealed, go through the proper legal process. The fact is that it's blatantly obvious that the bowling alley isn't zoned for adult entertainment; and this is among just the over-18 set never mind minors. While the event took place in a separate room at the alley, away from the general public, the potential for either something going wrong/haywire or somebody blowing the legal whistle (in this case, taking pics and posting them on a social network website) did become reality.

Again, if the kid's mother wanted to have strippers at her son's party; she should have just had them at her home. If she wanted to have them at a public place in a private room; she should've insisted and made sure that no cameras were present.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1153 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 29):
Now I don't believe she should get jail time, but I bet she has or will lose her job (if employed).
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 56):
Seriously, what does her employer have to do with this ?!

Per her facebook page she was put on unpaid administrative leave today.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 100, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 98):
if the kid's mother wanted to have strippers at her son's party; she should have just had them at her home.

And a keg too?

Again: Jurisdictions I am familiar with recognize 18 as the age of concent. I am fine with an 18 year old seeing strippers. However, if the son was 17 or younger, the parent/s need to be punished. They are breaking the law. No matter where the strippers were performing (private home, bowling alley, McDonalds).

To sum up: 18+ and strippers: who cares.
Under 18, law involved.

I actually believe the drinking age and age of concent should both be 18. But, the way laws are written in the USA right now, I am with what I stated in the first paragraph.

[Edited 2013-03-01 01:12:57]


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2323 posts, RR: 8
Reply 101, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

I'm with the camp that doesn't see a problem with this really. The only problem I see is that the parents of the other teenagers at the party might be upset (obviously they were since they reported it to police) since it's their choice what they expose their children to. It makes perfect sense for super-hormonal, horny 16yo boys really. The only reason I wouldn't personally do it in the States is the legality issue. I'm allergic to jail.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 72):
I've been at Hooters maybe 4-5 times in my life, and am amazed at how many females enjoy going there.

Hell, I've been to Hooters with my mom on vacation. I think I was 22 though. She wanted to go........



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 102, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1827 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 100):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 98):
if the kid's mother wanted to have strippers at her son's party; she should have just had them at her home.

And a keg too?

Again: Jurisdictions I am familiar with recognize 18 as the age of concent.

I'm well aware of that as well as the potential risk(s)/liability of having minors present and participating in 'adult' activity (and for the record, I don't condone such activity). The difference between having this take place in one's home vs. a business/public establishment is the number of people/entities liable for such actions.

While the primary focus of this thread has been on the mother, the bowling alley's owner will likely be in some legal hot water over this as well; especially if it's discovered that the owner didn't properly outline the terms & conditions for use of the room to the mother.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 103, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 102):
the bowling alley's owner will likely be in some legal hot water over this as well; especially if it's discovered that the owner didn't properly outline the terms & conditions for use of the room to the mother.

Sorry PHLBOS but I've never been to a bowling alley that had a 'no stripping policy'.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 104, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 100):
Again: Jurisdictions I am familiar with recognize 18 as the age of concent.

It's lower in a lot of other places... I guess that's why it's so iffy. Call me an immoral youngin, but IDK I think 16 should be the age. Yeah they're immature but so are 18 year olds. You get smarter by 25 I think, IDK I haven't got there lol

But on the other hand, I see a parental issue. I think it probably should be parental consent to 18 but arresting a stripper for messing with a 16 year old with parental consent--ok? IDK, gray area...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11460 posts, RR: 15
Reply 105, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 104):
I think it probably should be parental consent to 18 but arresting a stripper for messing with a 16 year old with parental consent--ok? IDK, gray area...

If the son is younger than the age of consent in the jurisdiction, the parent needs to face some punishment. The stripper should have asked for ID before she started "working" and should face some punishment. If she was a "professional" she would know better.

I have done pizza delivery in Portland and Santa Rosa. I have noticed there is a huge difference between "working girls" in the two places. In Portland, they understand I am there working and they are not on the job, so to speak. In Santa Rosa, the "working girls" seem to think they are going to get some extra money.

Again: What consenting adults do with their money and body is none of my business. If I choose not give money to a person for certain... umm.... "services" that is my business. If other adults choose to do that, fine. When minors are involved, that is different.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12267 posts, RR: 25
Reply 106, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 103):
Sorry PHLBOS but I've never been to a bowling alley that had a 'no stripping policy'.

I've been to one where I was glad the ladies were keeping their clothes on! 

Requiring some of the ladies (and the gents) there to wear burkhas would have a step up, IMHO.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 107, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 103):
Sorry PHLBOS but I've never been to a bowling alley that had a 'no stripping policy'.

Were these clothing optional bowling alleys, by any chance, all located in 'Frisco?  If so, no comment.

All kidding aside, as far as any no stripping policy is concerned; that likely falls under any of the various Adult Entertainment zoning statutes that may exist for cities & towns that have such establishments. In short, if a place isn't zoned for such, they can't offer it or allow their patrons to offer it... period. And even if the bowling alley in question was zoned or allowed to have adult entertainment, they certainly wouldn't be allowed to have minors (anyone under 18) present.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 104):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 100):
Again: Jurisdictions I am familiar with recognize 18 as the age of concent.

It's lower in a lot of other places... I guess that's why it's so iffy. Call me an immoral youngin, but IDK I think 16 should be the age.

Age of consent and legal age to have or attend an adult entertainment venue/function are not necessarily the same thing. In the U.S., the legal age to attend and partake in any such venue/function I believe is 18 nationwide and has been that age for decades.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 108, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 107):
In the U.S., the legal age to attend and partake in any such venue/function I believe is 18 nationwide and has been that age for decades.

Depends how shady the establishment is  

Not a fan of them myself, but when in Rome (or Bourbon Street in this case lol)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8924 posts, RR: 40
Reply 109, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 81):
Always going to be tricky deciding the minutiae of the thin end of the wedge, but I don't think that should put anyone off making some sensible rules. Keeping children away from strip joints, alcohol-fuelled environments and gambling establishments for example seems a good thing to do. It's a shame that it should be necessary to even point this out to some people, but any number of news items suggest that it is. There are some shocking levels of parenting out there. As for who draws that line, well that would be the relevant competent authority working on behalf of the relevant democratically-elected government.

Restricting someone's most fundamental human rights for a prolonged period of time - i.e., throwing someone in jail - is a very serious thing that should never be taken lightly. Highly subjective topics such as values should not even come close to landing you in jail. It's far too low a standard.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
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