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The Silence Over Gas Prices (rant)  
User currently offlineCometII From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 302 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

WARNING: non-political rant (if it gets to become economic/ideologic later that's fine, but as far as I'm concerned they are all to blame)

I'll make it short though.

Last two weeks prices in my area have gone from 3.59 to today 4.04. I have never seen a spike of this proportion. Not in the 2007 run-up, not when hurricanes threaten, not when Katrina, not when there is trouble in the Straights of Hormuz. It's probably up 20 cents in the last four days from Monday to today.

Obama and his administration are incompetent, craven bureaucrats. Incompetent because 5 years in there has been no net improvement in the price of energy. Craven because they were outraged at the rises in gas prices during the Bush years, yet now there silence is insulting and befitting completely out of touch elitist trying to protect their reputations and legacy. Quite simply, unashamed cowardice. And it is not a matter of taking populist measures like opening up strategic reserves or railing against "Big Oil". They need to own up to their failures, and to their hypocrisy of keeping oh so quiet as prices now soar past $4.

Oil companies are crooks. Yes popular to say for a long time, but how can you explain that they keep closing refineries when there is already a shortage of them? Why would you shut down production at a plant if you are actually not producing enough and the price is supportive? Would you not actually expand? Yes, it may be fair to say that building new refineries has been stalled by government irrational regulations, but that does not explain why the oil sector year after year closes more of them down. Don't give me the meat that they are old... they can upgrade them, repair them, and where there is a will there is a way.

Government and business are in the collusion, it is the only explanation. They both win by the current situation, and collusion makes them criminal actors.

If there is divine justice, I hope they burn in their oil.

Rant over.

Nothing is being done about the energy prices (or about the soaring rents in many areas of the country). People are being shafted from both sides of the equation. And get ready for food to go up pretty badly.

98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11794 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Obama and his administration are incompetent, craven bureaucrats. Incompetent because 5 years in there has been no net improvement in the price of energy.

That statement right there negated your whole rant.

Please read this carefully:

Government has very little to do with the price of oil and gas.

Oil and gas are mined, refined and shipped by private companies whos sole motive it the dollar. Profit. The price of oil before refining is set by a bloc of Middle Eastern nations and by a group of suits on Wall Strees. Both of those entities are out for their own profit.

Even Keystone has little to do with government. It is a Canadian company wanting to use Canadian labor to ship Canadian oil to the foreign market. How does that help the United States?

But, I digress.

Where government comes into the whole "price of oil and gas" equation is environmental regulations when drilling (so our ground water does not become more contaminated) and transport (tanker trucks getting refined gasoline to the stations). Exxon Valdez could fall under that category, but it could also fall under international maretime law.

The point is: Obama has zero... let me be clear: Z-E-R-O to do with gas prices. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Last two weeks prices in my area have gone from 3.59 to today 4.04. I have never seen a spike of this proportion

Prices in France are around €1.70/liter. That's $8.30/gallon. Consider yourself (still) lucky.

When I went to Boston last December, I fill up my rental car with a big smile on my face  Smile

[Edited 2013-02-22 09:02:26]


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

While you have a right to be angry, ranting is not going to get you anywhere when major changes around the world are forcing an inevitable rise in energy prices. Prices will always fluctuate with ups and downs in the short term, but the general trend for the future is up.

A few major factors pushing up prices include - oil producing parts of the world are becoming more dangerous/unstable everyday (Middle East), new oil finds are more expensive to extract (deep sea drilling), and billions of people in emerging markets are consuming more oil than ever before. These macroeconomic forces are much stronger in pushing prices up than factors pushing prices down, like building more refineries or even drilling oil in every state of the country (even if that were politically possible).

However, there are many things within our control that will help control our energy costs which we're all familiar with. Like driving slower on the highway, buying a more efficient car, living closer to work, etc. While not all of these are feasible for everyone, it's a step in the right direction to help mitigate the inevitable rise in our energy costs. These are much more feasible than eliminating every last terrorist in Iraq or asking China and Brazil to go back to the days when they used less oil.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3309 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3738 times:
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Us Americans have no right to complain about gas. It's so crazy cheap compared to Europe and other countries. After all, a gallon of milk costs more than a gallon of gas, so why aren't you ranting about that?

Buy a more economical car, or bite the bullet (I did the latter, my car gets 16MPG city, 23MPG highway).

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

The government has nothing to do with oil prices in real terms.

They have a lot to do with inflation though.


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3367 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Obama and his administration are incompetent, craven bureaucrats. Incompetent because 5 years in there has been no net improvement in the price of energy.

Not gonna repeat what has been said above, but I want to bring up something:

If I recall correctly, when oil prices began to rise back in 2007 and 2008, Bush was blamed and the response was that it was the free market's fault since government can't control the price. Now that there's a new president, the free market is suddenly without fault...so which one is it? Is it the government or is it the free market? It can't be the free market when a Republican is in charge and the president when a Democrat is in charge.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 7):
If I recall correctly, when oil prices began to rise back in 2007 and 2008, Bush was blamed and the response was that it was the free market's fault since government can't control the price. Now that there's a new president, the free market is suddenly without fault...so which one is it? Is it the government or is it the free market? It can't be the free market when a Republican is in charge and the president when a Democrat is in charge.

Just like it can't be the president when a Republican is in charge, and the free market when a Democrat is in charge.

I wonder how that slipped through the cracks?



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):

The point is: Obama has zero... let me be clear: Z-E-R-O to do with gas prices. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

He does have something to do with the outrageous deficit spending and nearly doubling the national debt since he's been in office, and with the monetary policy that supports it (he does not directly control monetary policy, but so far the Fed has done everything he has asked). Such policies influence the value of the dollar overseas, and since oil is normally valued in dollars, naturally, foreign countries are demanding substantially more dollars than before because of the inherent risk of owning them.

If we balanced our budget today (in a sustainable way), oil prices would probably go down by up to half.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26136 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Gas prices tend to rise going into spring every year regardless of outside influences.

Why?

1)Per regulations the refiners must switch between winter to summer blends. To do this they must take facilities off line, sometimes as much as 3-weeks at a time. Summer blends are also more expensive to produce as their oxygenates, or fuel additives are pricier.

2) Fuel demand increases as we enter spring and head towards Memorial Day driving peak.

So combined with more limited refined supply (as refineries shut down to make the blend switch) and similarly timed increasing demand its only natural prices will rise.


As far as the comment about refineries closing in America, yes it true. The cost to operate them and make major required upgrades is often excess of what the profit margin is. Due to regulatory limitation there has not been a significant refinery complex built in the US since 1977. So until the economics make it a viable proposition don't expect new ones to pop up.


Lastly regarding cost of fuel overseas - that is much a result of local taxation.
The raw oil commodity price its the same everywhere. Some nations decided to to use fuel as a means to levy incredibly high taxes on business and consumers.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1582 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

If its true that we are going to run out of oil eventually, isnt there a way to chemically create synthetic oil? Or a compound that is chemically similar enough?

User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3441 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3667 times:

More people are consuming more energy. Expect prices to continue to rise. There might be dips and peaks, but the average increase in energy prices is probably going to keep climbing compared to average wages in this country. Adapt or die.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
Government has very little to do with the price of oil and gas.

Except of course the mandated formula change that occurs this time of year which creates an artifical supply shortage driving up prices. That and for the few lucky states in the Union a percentage based tax that creates an exponential increase.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/mf.pdf


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
The raw oil commodity price its the same everywhere. Some nations decided to to use fuel as a means to levy incredibly high taxes on business and consumers.

No, they decided that taxation was a good way to make people consume less oil, make manufacturers improve engines, etc. limiting the imports of oil needed, limiting the need to fight oil wars, fund navy fleets, get in bed with Saudis, improving the trade balance, limiting pollution, and other benefits.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 11):
If its true that we are going to run out of oil eventually, isnt there a way to chemically create synthetic oil? Or a compound that is chemically similar enough?

Yes there is a way, but not at 4$ a gallon. In fact most of the current chemical industry is oil based, so when it will become too rare there will be many things that will have to be made differently, and there is really no need to make oil for cars, just make ethanol or biodiesel directly.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6730 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
If we balanced our budget today (in a sustainable way), oil prices would probably go down by up to half.

Oil prices skyrocketed during the Bush years when we ran much smaller deficits, so your reasoning does little to explain oil prices.


User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
Oil prices skyrocketed during the Bush years when we ran much smaller deficits, so your reasoning does little to explain oil prices.

They skyrocketed during

A) Economic boom which dramatically increases demand. Not the case now.
B) Threats of war/blocade/natural disaster in oil producing or processing regions. Not the case now.

The reasons for oil spikes present during GWB's administration are not present today. Of course you know that, so why do you try to muddy the waters with the argument?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3309 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3585 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
The reasons for oil spikes present during GWB's administration are not present today. Of course you know that, so why do you try to muddy the waters with the argument?

He's not muddying the waters, he's strenghtening his point. If the factors present during the Bush years are different that the factors present now but gas is still rising in price, it's very obvious that the current government's policies and actions have nothing to do with gas prices.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6730 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
The reasons for oil spikes present during GWB's administration are not present today.

Global demand for oil continues to hit new highs each year, so the demand is still there. And natural disasters, threats of blockades and war are still on-going as well. Sorry, but little has fundamentally changed.

You're just desperate to blame Obama for a problem that existed long before Obama ever became president and will continue to exist long after he is gone.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 2):
Prices in France are around €1.70/liter. That's $8.30/gallon. Consider yourself (still) lucky.

That's amazing, because I can remember one of my trips driving in Europe back in the early 1990s almost 20 years ago and average cost was about $6.75 a gallon in Europe and in the US at that time it had to be about either side of $2.00 a gallon depending on whether you lived in Texas or California.

All things being equal, if Europe got about a 17 or 18% increase..then current US prices should be about $2.40-2.70 tops.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Some nations decided to to use fuel as a means to levy incredibly high taxes on business and consumers.

I was watching old foreign clips from the 1970s last week and a news anchor came right out and said 'OPEC decided to strike a blow against the US and raise oil prices on the open market another XX percent. The foundation of that retaliatory increase still resides within today's cost (I'm there were addition 'I'll teach you' increases in there as well), now that the US is a major player in all this, they've rescinded none of it. Why give up profit when you don't have to.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 11):
If its true that we are going to run out of oil eventually,

Not anytime soon, the estimated oil reserves of the Oil Barons is in excess of 10+ trillion barrels, as shrewd businessmen, they've priced that out and down to the last barrel and have the corresponding dollar number..and they intend to get that very last penny. No new energy sources can be allowed to flourish freely until that penny is added to the bank account.. that is their thinking.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):

Oil prices skyrocketed during the Bush years

And during the Carter years, the Reagan and Bush I years... as they were heavily invested (except for Carter) and they all looked and us feeling sorry about it while secretly counting how much they were making of the skyrocketing..and are still doing it now.

Expect no help from anyone making bank off skyrocketing fuel prices. Troublesome consumer advocacy is your best bet... someone doing 'the right thing' .. is out of the question.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
All things being equal, if Europe got about a 17 or 18% increase..then current US prices should be about $2.40-2.70 tops.

The difference is that a big chunk of the tax is fixed, it doesn't depend on the cost of oil. So when oil goes up, the proportion of the tax in the final price goes down. If oil doubles, the final price doesn't double here. In the US it does.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3410 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Oil companies are crooks. Yes popular to say for a long time, but how can you explain that they keep closing refineries when there is already a shortage of them?

That is fairly simple, if demand is fairly consistent and the fact that aren't a large number of oil companies relative to a lot of industries one of the biggest ways to increase your bottom line is to intentionally limit the supply.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
Even Keystone has little to do with government. It is a Canadian company wanting to use Canadian labor to ship Canadian oil to the foreign market. How does that help the United States?

Also to refine some of that oil in Texas.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Per regulations the refiners must switch between winter to summer blends. To do this they must take facilities off line, sometimes as much as 3-weeks at a time. Summer blends are also more expensive to produce as their oxygenates, or fuel additives are pricier.

Never thought of that but it makes sense.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 11):

If its true that we are going to run out of oil eventually, isnt there a way to chemically create synthetic oil? Or a compound that is chemically similar enough?

They are working on things like bio-diesel and ethanol to run in the present engines of cars as an example.


Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
Not anytime soon, the estimated oil reserves of the Oil Barons is in excess of 10+ trillion barrels, as shrewd businessmen, they've priced that out and down to the last barrel and have the corresponding dollar number..and they intend to get that very last penny. No new energy sources can be allowed to flourish freely until that penny is added to the bank account.. that is their thinking.

There may be heaps of oil left out there but it is becoming harder and more expensive to mine. Even oil sands oil is only profitable to extract at IIRC around $70 per barrel.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
Not anytime soon, the estimated oil reserves of the Oil Barons is in excess of 10+ trillion barrels, as shrewd businessmen, they've priced that out and down to the last barrel and have the corresponding dollar number..and they intend to get that very last penny. No new energy sources can be allowed to flourish freely until that penny is added to the bank account.. that is their thinking.

There may be heaps of oil left out there but it is becoming harder and more expensive to mine. Even oil sands oil is only profitable to extract at IIRC around $70 per barrel.

I'm suspect about that viewpoint, technological advances and new age applied innovative techniques have made the cost of film production drop like a rock, auto production cost plummet... everything done with machinery is affected - including the oil industry. After BP, (Exxon Valdez actually) I for one have learned..the oil industry simply cannot be trusted at anything they say and I do mean anything.

The old 'it cost us more to drill deeper' comes from a fat bag of 'means to justify anything' they just always seem to have handy. If you paid attention to the last 10 'Oil Executives hauled before Congress to explain unreasonable hikes" hearings... you learned something, or maybe you didn't. But saw Congress treating these people (like the bankers) with a total politeness and dare not offend attitude, while in the steroid hearings they were treating the athletes as if they were 'physical equals' in the WWF pre-match smack talking warm ups. Clearly, Congress knows more than me or any of you and is happy with the current situation and whatever the Energy Companies tell them sans independent investigation. If you can't learn anything from that.. you really do not want to know what's going on.

But in short..if you feel like you're getting screwed... I have news for you, you're 100% correct - you are!
..and if for minute you really think like this..

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Obama and his administration are incompetent, craven bureaucrats. Incompetent because 5 years in there has been no net improvement in the price of energy.

...you need your head examined. If anyone could do something..it'd be the Congress. But they're well cared for...so why should they?



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
A) Economic boom which dramatically increases demand. Not the case now.

Creating one of the biggest bubbles (not booms) in history is not really a mitigating factor.

The only real difference between either administrations' recklessness is that they exist on different sides of the burst.


User currently offlineSuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3466 times:

The only thing governments can do to try to decrease petrol and other energy prices is invest in infrastructure for alternative energy. Germany is starting to do that, they will begin investing in a network of hydrogen pumps across the country.

Oil is slowly going to run out (this is not an immediate concern, but the easiest to drill oil has been used up), demand is going to increase a lot more. In the long run, prices will not drop but rise.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 26):
Germany is starting to do that, they will begin investing in a network of hydrogen pumps across the country.

I could be wrong, but I doubt if there is a powerful oil lobby in Germany as we have here..

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 26):
The only thing governments can do to try to decrease petrol and other energy prices is invest in infrastructure for alternative energy.

The Oil Lobby here (see Health Care Lobby wars) .. will fight that to the death the moment 'alternative energies' start to seriously infringe on their market share. Trust me, they are watching (if not buying up every alternative energy patent issued - and shelving it) every move, from every angle and ready to 'take out anything' resembling a threat to fossil fuel consumption. At the same time..they've put together some super cute n' fuzzy commercials about how their scientist are working 24 hours a day seeking fuel alternatives. Now that's how you politic.. say one thing, do the exact opposite with a vengeance.

Nothing personal, it's just business.

BN747

[Edited 2013-02-22 17:34:11]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
25 ajd1992 : Hey, it costs us £80 to fill a 13 UK Gal/15US Gal tank with diesel. That gets us about 400 miles - Americans don't know the first thing about expensi
26 IMissPiedmont : I would prefer to pay less than what the price is today but I can afford the price. I actually spend less in actual dollars and percentage of income t
27 aircatalonia : Yes there is, but it takes almost 1 barrel of oil to produce 1 barrel of such substances, that's the problem with biofuels and the like. If you are i
28 mham001 : Actually there has. Natural gas is significantly cheaper. So is solar power. That is a myth. Most of the oil around the world is controlled by variou
29 Maverick623 : Not in my neck of the woods. Just bought a gallon yesterday, while it was on sale, the non-sale price was listed at $2.80/gal. Gas hit that for a few
30 Post contains images soon7x7 : Having been involved in the fuel shortage back in the seventies, the odd/even fuel rationing event left a mark on me ever since then. I knew it could
31 BN747 : Yep... we paid a lot of Blood to 'free the oil market'.. and what did the US public get besides a warm fuzzy feeling of playing 'the hero'... ...your
32 Post contains images scbriml : What do you base this gem on? I work for one of the oil majors - last year our capital spend (predominantly on development of new production) was ove
33 SuperCaravelle : Probably not. The lobby of the auto industry is quite effective though, and it is perhaps no surprise that the German government announced this just
34 Aesma : But hydrogen isn't an alternative energy. It's an alternative fuel. It's almost exclusively made from natural gas, oil, coal... Well, if he had a "re
35 Post contains links BN747 : Now that's interesting... so now I must wonder, why would the most powerful network on earth, the Energy Syndicate (only fair since banks are now cal
36 Post contains images B6JFKH81 : It amazes me every day the amount of Long Islanders who insist on having a large pick-up truck or SUV just for the purpose of having one...then bitch
37 tz757300 : I've always wondered how much traffic congestion in NYC would improve if everyone ditched the jumbo vehicles and driving visibility improved. There h
38 Post contains links STT757 : There's been a huge improvement in the price of energy over the past five years, Natural gas prices have plummeted. I have fuel oil to heat my home a
39 CalebWilliams : Yum, tastes like methane.
40 NorthStarDC4M : Depends which NIMBYs you are talking about... The Cape Cod NIMBY and Martha's Vineyard NIMBY for example have enough political clout to do just about
41 yyz717 : Gas prices should be high, indeed even higher than they are now. The US has the world's lowest gas prices so Americans have nothing to complain about.
42 KaiGywer : Might not wanna tell places like Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many others that they aren't part of the world...
43 Flighty : Well, he could probably make it go even higher. But yeah, probably not lower. I agree. Basically carbon taxes could achieve that.
44 scbriml : Doesn't matter. US energy prices are still significantly lower than many places. So you tend not to get much sympathy when you bitch about them.
45 Boeing717200 : Actually, if they stopped subsidizing mass transit with the highway trust fund the the financial picture for roads would be far better. Up until the
46 seb146 : Is that before or after American government hand-outs are figured in? Except that drilling is at an all time high. The problem is the right and their
47 Post contains images StarAC17 : Their government sells their oil to their citizens for very little and export it at the market rate. One of the biggest reasons that oil prices are h
48 darksnowynight : Well, firstly, I don't know anyone who buys 20 gals of milk a week. As well, to compare gas prices between here and there is not really relevant unti
49 Ken777 : The first impact the government has is with their tax per gallon of gas. Other factors, though, can have a more severe impact. Think Hurricane Sandy
50 Post contains images CaliAtenza : interesting . Would this be able to work in the internal combustion engines we have now? I am aware of bio fuels (ethanol and such) and bio diesel, b
51 scbriml : Which handouts are those?
52 ANITIX87 : I deliberately started the sentence with "Us Americans" because I am one (a misunderstanding happened in the gun control thread as well because of my
53 Post contains links RussianJet : Petrol and other such fuels certainly can be synthesised, from air and water, for example. It seems at the moment that it is still too costly, but as
54 BN747 : That's ONLY if you and and your circle of Oil Pals have the 'alternative' market cornered as they do now fossil fuels.. that simply wont be possible,
55 us330 : My apologies. I was basing my post off of a national geographic article that I had read, which did not mention such a pipeline, or at least implied t
56 BMI727 : If they are suppressing it now, they obviously do have the market cornered. This conspiracy simply doesn't exist, not least because there is no good
57 Ken777 : Not really. The bigger the car or truck the more wear on the roads and the more tax dollars we need to maintain them. Maybe you'll go along with incr
58 BMI727 : Except that even larger SUVs don't do that much damage to roadways. Most wear and tear is done by commercial vehicles. I'd be okay with taxing operat
59 Boeing717200 : A couple of things.. 1. Its not the size of the vehicle, its the weight loading. For example, a 757 does far more load damage to a runway than a 777.
60 WarRI1 : I do not think there is silence, so much as there is resignation to the fact that market influences, demand, greed, profit, taxes, you name it are all
61 seb146 : He is still being labled as all of these things by many loud-mouth "conservative" talking heads. Those followers believe what they are told. Just the
62 rfields5421 : I've seen the cost of gasoline go up 25% in the past month locally. It doesn't matter is US gasoline is cheap and European expensive - a 25% increase
63 Aesma : Well what do you think champagne socialists (or, the caviar left as we call them in France) do ? They increase taxes that they are paying. And, in th
64 BN747 : Keep thinking like that and you'll never get that big pile of money you crave... ..2nd rule of climbing to the top - accepting 'the incredible and un
65 Post contains images Mortyman :
66 BMI727 : Seems like I still hear complaints about how much banks make. 2008 seems to have been an aberration. And the housing bubble happened in part because
67 Boeing717200 : Who is killing who over oil? Be specific.
68 cmf : You're thinking too traditionally but even so there are plenty of advantages using wind and solar to reduce the amount of fossil needed. Why isn't et
69 RussianJet : I think that the principal argument against such crops is the availability and quality of cultivable land. The algae-type proposals potentially do aw
70 Post contains links rfields5421 : Only government policy where the US limits the amount of corn grown in the US to ensure prices remain at levels to guarantee well run farms do not go
71 Post contains links rfields5421 : For the US currently - water is the major limiting factor in production of corn, or another crop for ethanol. Most of the productive farm land in the
72 okie : Incorrect, the Renewable Fuel Standards imposed by the present administration dictates that 37% of all corn production go to ethanol with massive sub
73 rfields5421 : Thanks I didn't find those current numbers. However, we do have plenty of airable land available greatly increase our US corn production - most of it
74 YVRLTN : Well, gas just went up $0.14 per liter in some parts of metro YVR this weekend - is that Obama's fault too? Canada is not the USA and YVR I believe ha
75 Ken777 : Or maybe spend some money developing systems to allow big rigs to use natural gas. Last year was a pretty good example of the need to protect farmers
76 BMI727 : Vancouver is insane. There are houses that look like those hundred dollar houses in Detroit going for over half a million. Of course motoring enthusi
77 BN747 : Here's the deal you don't get nor will you get until you've started a business and hired some employees...so until you accomplish this, you'll have t
78 Post contains links Arrow : Vancouver-based Westport Innovations has been marketing these systems for trucks for many years now. With natural gas prices in the cellar and a huge
79 rfields5421 : Could you post a link to this requirement? All I can find is a requirement for a certain number of gallons of ethanol to be produced. Not a percentag
80 NASCARAirforce : I thought you said it was non political? This just goes to show you that Republicans and Democrats are more alike than they are different. They are b
81 Aesma : Well, if oil was priced in euros, then you'd be screwed.
82 mham001 : We would not be in Afghanistan if not for oil. Iraq too. Twice. Nigeria has a nice war going on over oil profits Libya? Oil. Do you need more? They a
83 Post contains images cmf : Is there a shortage of land? It is an argument that the incumbents have been very successful in establishing as gospel. It only makes sense if your g
84 BMI727 : I don't know of a bunch of land suitable for corn crops just sitting vacant. We probably could grow more corn if we really wanted to, but it would ta
85 rfields5421 : Much land very suitable for corn, or other crop production, is currently used as grazing land, to raise hay, or just left fallow waiting for a high e
86 Boeing717200 : Afghanistan and Iraq have nothing to do with oil and everything to do with cleaning up a Cold War mess. There's more to World History than the last 2
87 mham001 : More nonsense. Nobody would care in any way about the middle east if not for oil. Cold War or not. We would not be in Afghanistan if not for Bin Lade
88 Boeing717200 : If it were only that easy.
89 cmf : We have plenty of unused land. If we worried about having enough farmland we wouldn't convert so much of it for housing. Right, that is only a proble
90 BMI727 : It's worth more as housing, and there's probably no way to improve enough land to cause enough of a positive pressure on crop prices to ever change t
91 Post contains images cmf : We overproduce corn, simple as that. We have plenty of land available for ethanol. Farming has been around for a while. We know how to switch between
92 BMI727 : In that case why are farmers not producing other things? Those crops are not necessarily interchangeable. And, if you're going to profess to be an ex
93 casinterest : We don't overproduce corn. Last year was a prime example of a down year. Do you realize that 88-90% of corn is not consumed directly as food by human
94 seb146 : Actually, we were in Saudi Arabia because of Gulf War I when the Saudis let us build a base there. That was why Osama bin Laden was pissed. How dare
95 casinterest : Yes, but low yield does not necessarily correspond with price effective. Long term money maybe, but the infrastucture is currently there in terms of
96 Post contains images cmf : No, but it is a major factor. How will this bring up food prices? The original claim
97 cmf : Show there is a shortage of land then. Because without it that argument doesn't hold. Also show the cost to use it is higher. Reality check. About 40
98 NZ1 : Due to the amount of deletions, plus the inability of some to engage in a civil conversation, this thread will now be locked. NZ1 Forum Moderator
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