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Obama Wants To Raise Minimum Wage Part 3  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4437 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1715 times:
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Due to length in part 2, please continue the discussion in part 3 if you so desire.

Previous thread:

Obama Wants To Raise Minimum Wage Part 2 (by jetblueguy22 Feb 17 2013 in Non Aviation)

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineplanesntrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5800 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 247):
For instance, I was fired from such a job for "rocking the boat" as it were, while some of the lazy non boat rocking workers still worker there simply because of the fact that they don't exceed expectations but don't go above the bare minimum.

I'm assuming you received unemployment? Or found a much more rewarding place to work? And just to be clear, you did a great job, so they fired you?

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 247):
The surfeit of workers allows employers to make false promises (hours, wages, etc.) that they employees can't do anything about because they know they can't easily get another job somewhere else.

Sure, it happens all the time. I interview people who have a job but the hours/schedule they promised "never seemed to work out". I'm more than happy to accept the good people who they drive away.

And outside of 2009, when it was really bad, it's not as bad of a job market for those that are a good match for the job. The vast majority of apps that I see in our entry level environment are A) High school students; B) Immigrants with little to no skills and/or no English; C) Other (socially unskilled, no motivation, drug problems, etc - people that don't get hired in a tough economy).

It won't stay like that. The economy will turn around and the shoe will be on the other foot. I've seen it so bad that employers vanpool workers in from other cities for fast food jobs, albeit not in this job market.

I'm not anti-employee or anything like that at all - I love my employees and treat them well - but even in this economy there is a real disconnect by many about what it means to have a job, work hard, be responsible, have a decent attitude, and put your time in. I can't give everyone 40 hours today, but over time if you prove yourself you will get there. If you don't, and you're good, you'll leave and find a new job. If you don't, and aren't so good, hopefully your reviews and lack of hours will sink in one day and you'll turn it around.

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 247):
All the while, those same employers don't have to pay for health insurance for the employees because they don't work more than 20 to 32 hours per week.

So? As it is, many of my employees are on other people's insurance anyhow, and for those that qualify, most turn it down because they don't want to pay the cost of it. I don't blame them, but it isn't always like having it available means people want it or want to pay for it.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
I'm assuming you received unemployment?

No, the state said I was eligible to receive unemployment based on the reason why I was fired. However by the time I found another job, only about a month or so had passed, and I never pursued it.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
Or found a much more rewarding place to work?

The only positive thing about the next job I had is that it paid about $.75/hour more. I actually loved the job I had.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 1):
And just to be clear, you did a great job, so they fired you?

The easiest way to describe what happened is that me and the employer (specifically the store manager) had different ideas as how best to do my job. At one time I was on track for a promotion when I worked for different manager (actually two wanted to promote me), but the time frame didn't work out for them when they moved to other stores and the new manager and the one in the store where I eventually worked didn't.

Either way, I have a job now that pays much more than I made then.

[Edited 2013-02-23 11:49:35]


Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 246):
Exactly, making it difficult to justify a $200 textbook covering public domain materials.

Well, if it's all public domain, then just don't buy the textbook. It's all right there for you.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 246):
Missed some necessary parts. Textbooks include course study, sample tests (that have been tested) etc.

Ah, so maybe it isn't all public domain then, is it?

Quoting CalebWilliams (Reply 247):
I understand that you don't. No one can instill compassion into you, but when those same "burrito makers" "spit in your food" don't be surprised.

I have no real disdain for them either. It's just a matter of if one of them were to say "Your burrito is going to cost a dollar more so I can have a raise" my reply is going to be "I'll get someone else to make my burrito."



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1556 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Well, if it's all public domain, then just don't buy the textbook. It's all right there for you.

I believe you have just figured out that you paid a lot more for textbooks than you now fell is responsible. Unfortunately not every algebra would be in the same timeline so grabbing it off of iWikipedia isn't always the answer. THt it cound work for some parts of a course.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Ah, so maybe it isn't all public domain then, is it?

Here is a bunch. Here's one:

https://www.coursera.org

And another:

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/index.htm

(Threw in MIT for the engineering in you.)

And this list is pretty impressive:

https://www.edx.org

We've made it to a point technically where all of your high school or university books can be on your iPad. A great menu are natural to development from open source. In literature three will be numerous important books available free , or at a nominal charge.

There may well be new areas where scholars can develop new materials, but everyone would be better off if these people receive a respectable flat feel for the rights and then deliver it electronically for free, or a a very low cost.

And we are not just looking at textbooks. Today you can join lectures in areas of interest at sghools from Harvatd to MIT to Stanford. With maybe a stop or two in Texas.  


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4):
I believe you have just figured out that you paid a lot more for textbooks than you now fell is responsible.

Not at all. My education as a whole is possibly a poor investment, but I don't feel I got fleeced on textbooks. I got out of them what I wanted.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4):
We've made it to a point technically where all of your high school or university books can be on your iPad. A great menu are natural to development from open source. In literature three will be numerous important books available free , or at a nominal charge.

That's fine, but I don't support nationalizing the industry. If authors and publishers want things open source, they can make it open source. I'm totally fine with that, but I don't believe in forcing them to do that. They will have a hard time selling anything if equally good material is available for free anyway.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
That's fine, but I don't support nationalizing the industry.

You might be able to stretch the term "prior knowledge" to include nationalizing that knowledge.

Remember that I'm talking about well established knowledge. Algebra is an example I'm sure you can consider "prior knowledge" and a prime candidate for an electronic textbook that would be free to download, I'm even supportive of paying some teachers to put a course work program and sample tests together for the teachers to download. But pay them to do the job, and no royalties as they are working on a fixed cost.

Look back at all of the previous schoolbooks and textbooks you have had over the years. Now try to figure out which ones could have been delivered electronically without a reduction in quality. And also start remembering all the recent articles on how products like the iPad are superior for teaching than a traditional textbook. Might be the interaction designs, bit the dead tree versions are taking second place in education. Except, of course, in Texas where science is going to take a back seat to the holy rollin conservatives.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1489 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
You might be able to stretch the term "prior knowledge" to include nationalizing that knowledge.

It's better than that. Most of the knowledge is openly available worldwide, except for some subjects that may be suppressed as state secrets. But having access to the knowledge is not the same as having open access to textbooks.

I can write about anything old: historical events, art, music, science, and so on. I don't own the subjects I'm writing about, but I do own what I write about them and of course the copyright laws even protect the right to write about such things even if they are owned by someone else.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
Look back at all of the previous schoolbooks and textbooks you have had over the years. Now try to figure out which ones could have been delivered electronically without a reduction in quality.

Pretty much all of them, but that's not the issue. Even if it's words on a screen somebody has to write it. The cost would be reduced by not having physical printing, but a lot of other costs won't drop.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
But having access to the knowledge is not the same as having open access to textbooks.

And that is where the money game is played - boosting the costs of your education.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
but I do own what I write about them and of course the copyright laws even protect the right to write about such things even if they are owned by someone else.

At the same time we could have a system where writers compete for electronic textbooks (with full course plans) where the winners get a nice plump check for their labors and the others can either go dead tree or take "consolidation prizes.

Dollar for dollar there would be no better value in education than having the government compete with a bunch of overpriced textbooks. Really, what new knowledge do you believe will be in this year's $250 Algebra text? Very high Duh Factor there.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1442 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
At the same time we could have a system where writers compete for electronic textbooks (with full course plans) where the winners get a nice plump check for their labors and the others can either go dead tree or take "consolidation prizes.

Why? There is no reason why professors cannot plan their courses and choose textbooks on their own. Some prefer it one way, others want to emphasize other things. Some will vary from semester to semester based on who they are teaching.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Dollar for dollar there would be no better value in education than having the government compete with a bunch of overpriced textbooks.

The government shouldn't compete. The textbook market is a market like anyone else.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Really, what new knowledge do you believe will be in this year's $250 Algebra text?

Again that's not what they're paying for. If you want to see all of the original papers on the subject and the formulas you can find those for free. And if you want to go through a course without ever buying the book, go for it. Quite a few people do just that.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
Why?

Because there are some pretty bright guys that are doing it now. Check out:

http://www.khanacademy.org

This site got a great PR shot when Bill Gates said he uses it to help his kids with their math.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
The government shouldn't compete

Of course the government should be able to compete - especially in industries were there is abusive pricing.

Health insurance and textbooks are two great examples.

There is absolutely no reason why taxpayers should be taken for a ride by these industries when government programs can out deliver and out perform them for a fraction of the costs.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
The textbook market is a market like anyone else.

Not really. It is an abusive market (as demonstrated by the cost per book) where students are taken to the cleaners for no valid reason.

Health costs can be another abusive market. There is a major article/study at Time that should be read by anyone thinking they understand Medicine in the US:

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/2...-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
There is no reason why professors cannot plan their courses and choose textbooks on their own.

Professors can, of course, develop their own course. And they can select any $350 textbook they want. The only thing I would ask is that there is at least one other prof teaching the same course using a free ebook the students can download. Now THAT would be real competition!

BTW, as soon as you used the word textbook you have taken away any creative computer based interaction.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
And if you want to go through a course without ever buying the book, go for it. Quite a few people do just that.

Or maybe us free textbooks already on the internet, When you have genetic courses (algebra, human anatomy, etc.) the internet probably provides a much wider scope of information than a limited overpriced textbook.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Because there are some pretty bright guys that are doing it now. Check out:

So if people are already putting educational materials online free, then there is no need for the government to come in and waste their time and money on it. If you want to write a textbook and give it away for free, that's your right. Or you could sell it for some amount of money, I don't care and the government shouldn't either.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Of course the government should be able to compete

No they shouldn't. They are government, not a private enterprise. I don't want my money being used to print textbooks, and if I did I'd invest in a publishing company.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
in industries were there is abusive pricing.

If the pricing is really abusive the market will take care of it. In your world, "abusive" just means that you think it's too expensive.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
The only thing I would ask is that there is at least one other prof teaching the same course using a free ebook the students can download. Now THAT would be real competition

...and incredibly impractical. That's a problem for universities and their departments to decide. If they want to cap book costs, they can.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Or maybe us free textbooks already on the internet,

That's exactly what people do. You do realize that no professor has ever said to not use any materials other than the textbook and even if one did, exactly zero students would heed that advice. You're finding a problem where there isn't one.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
So if people are already putting educational materials online free, then there is no need for the government to come in and waste their time and money on it.

I'm looking at expansion of programs and have no problems with governments supporting that growth. Especially when you think about tax dollars going into dead tree books that have to be replaced with even more expensive books on a continual basis.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
So if people are already putting educational materials online free, then there is no need for the government to come in and waste their time and money on it.

Where online pubs are available (like http://www.khanacademy.org I previously referenced) then let's go with them. Otherwise let's put out the money to establish universal texts & related programs. Let's also spend the money to make it interactive.

And remember that I'm talking about more than just university textbooks.

Look around at the money wasted in High School books when they could be online. Even the K-9 grades can have significant benefits from interactive learning. When you get to generic courses then there is no need to overspend tax dollars on fluffy, overpriced textbooks.

Now we do know that special accommodation has to be made for Texas because they have such a huge problem with teaching science. But, hey, you're young. You are going to be paying taxes for a lot of years. You want to see unnecessary tax dollars going to overpriced dead trees?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
No they shouldn't.

Of course they should.

Remember the classic example of private business being able to deliver a better product at a lower price - it's called Medicare Advantage? That was supposed to be proof of the glories of private enterprise. All that was needed was a 15% "bonus" to help get the programs started.

Taxpayers are still paying that 15% overcharge, which makes it hard to prove better performance with private care. More bucks for the bang and you probably still support that over spending.

As far asa I'm concerned, when the private sector gets too greedy then we need to let the government sector compete. Medicare in Australia did just that - they saw the plump profits of the private insurance sector and joined them with Medicare Private. When I was picking out a plan when I had a business there Medicare Private was the best option.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
They are government, not a private enterprise.

Which means you can generally have better performance (read Medicare Advantage overcharging)

Government printing offices have been printing off a large number of informative documents. Start with the IRS and all the publications printed off to support various forms, dead tree & electronic.

Absolutely no reason why we need a "private writer" preparing a generic algebra book.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
I don't want my money being used to print textbooks,

I'm talking about e-books. Remember. It's the private, overpriced textbooks that are wasting money being printed.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
If the pricing is really abusive the market will take care of it.

Sure. That is why prices keep going up.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
In your world, "abusive" just means that you think it's too expensive.

My bet is that your parents picked up the tab for your textbooks. IF you project the same rates of inflation that textbooks delivered between when your Dad went to university then your kids will be spending around $5,000 a year on college texts if you have your way. Maybe a vasectomy now will save you a million dollars, minimum. That's money you can appreciate.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
...and incredibly impractical.

Competition is "incredibly impractical"? And after spending a pile of your parents money on overpriced books. How much did your textbooks cost for all those years? And how much knowledge did those books contain that couldn't be delivered in ebooks? All that generic math, engineering and science knowledge that you (or your parents) paid how much for?


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Especially when you think about tax dollars going into dead tree books that have to be replaced with even more expensive books on a continual basis.

If you want to have public schools use iPads or the like instead of textbooks fine. Once you're talking about colleges it's a bit different.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Where online pubs are available (like http://www.khanacademy.org I previously referenced) then let's go with them.

When you teach classes, go ahead. I think instructors and administrators should be the ones working to determine what the best way to teach students is.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Government printing offices have been printing off a large number of informative documents. Start with the IRS and all the publications printed off to support various forms, dead tree & electronic.

When you are talking about specifically governmental publications, fine. Drivers' manuals, brochures, tax info, etc. is all fine.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Absolutely no reason why we need a "private writer" preparing a generic algebra book.

Someone has to do it, and thus, someone has to be paid for it. You can't teach kids off of Wikipedia articles but if schools and teachers prefer open source material, I have no problems letting them use it. But, if educators have a commercial textbook they find to be effective, let them use that.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Sure. That is why prices keep going up.

Unless you rent textbooks, use ebooks, use a library, share books, or just don't use one at all.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
My bet is that your parents picked up the tab for your textbooks.

They didn't.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Competition is "incredibly impractical"?

Yeah, because universities don't have infinite numbers of professors nor do students have infinite openings in their schedules.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
How much did your textbooks cost for all those years?

Maybe $5000 out of a $100k education.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
And how much knowledge did those books contain that couldn't be delivered in ebooks?

Probably none. Nowhere have I expressed a preference for physical books over ebooks, and things are progressing steadily towards the use of ebooks. There is absolutely zero reason why that should be legislated. People will write ebooks because that's what people increasingly demand.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1376 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
If you want to have public schools use iPads or the like instead of textbooks fine. Once you're talking about colleges it's a bit different.

Looks like higher education can also have significant benefits.

Quote:

After launching a new iMedEd initiative built around Apple's iPad, the University of California at Irvine reports that students in the program have now scored "an average of 23 percent higher on their national exams" than previous classes, "despite having similar incoming GPAs and MCAT scores."
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/...-students-score-23-higher-on-exams

Let's take your degree. How much information could be available from NASA. New, dynamic information in government computers. With budget cuts to NASA (which I really disagree with) why not take some of those very bright engineers who are heading to unemployment insurance and get them the job of developing advanced e-books as well as interactive programs or apps. I have a feeling that there could be some major resources that might blow your mind (if you really love engineering), support continuing education, etc.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
should be the ones working to determine what the best way to teach students is.

Are they making decisions that are the best way to teach students, or picking books that deliver the best profits?

Maybe they have outsourced their bookstores and have to use what's in the contracts.

Check out the textbooks for generic courses (again, Math courses like Algebra) are great for comparisons.

Hard to find a reason why a $25 Algebra text book can't do a great job. So what do they cost today?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Someone has to do it, and thus, someone has to be paid for it.

I have no problems paying people to work on projects - like I mentioned above with the NASA example.

But then we have people who are above the "only work for money" group - they get excited about being involved in dynamic groups. Here's one example:

Quote:

A group of medical students participating in the iMedEd program have formed an "innovators group" to discus the latest technologies that could factor into the medical school's curriculum, and have partnered with the Donald Bren School of Information & Computer Sciences to hold a "Med AppJam" devoted to building new iPad apps for healthcare.

In just ten days, more than 100 participants had developed 19 specialized iPad apps for healthcare, including "one focused on acute care during natural disasters and another that provides instruction for bedside diagnostic ultrasonography."


(Same link)

Another would be OsiriX. Basic (original) app was free, but you do have to pay a small free for a FDA approved version. And there is a long list of add on's developed by some pretty bright Radiologists.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
But, if educators have a commercial textbook they find to be effective, let them use that.

Effective or profits. Look at the retail prices and tell me people shouldn't question the effectiveness of those prices.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
They didn't

They you took out a long term student loan or spent money that could have been pretty effective in building assets for getting started after graduation?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
There is absolutely zero reason why that should be legislated.

Not legislated, simply available on government and school computers. Again, NASA is one example you can spend some time giving thought to.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1369 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
Looks like higher education can also have significant benefits.

I'm not saying colleges or anybody else can't use them. I don't want to see them forced to use them, or any other particular textbook.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
How much information could be available from NASA. New, dynamic information in government computers.

A lot of it. Some of it is buried in eight decade old reports.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
why not take some of those very bright engineers who are heading to unemployment insurance and get them the job of developing advanced e-books as well as interactive programs or apps.

I'm sure some of them will, for private companies.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
Are they making decisions that are the best way to teach students, or picking books that deliver the best profits?

Profits? I've never heard of teachers or professors getting kickbacks, although it may happen. I have heard professors select a book over another one because it was cheaper.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
I have no problems paying people to work on projects

Neither do I. I go to the bookstore or Amazon and buy a book, thus paying people to have worked on the project of creating said book.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
Not legislated, simply available on government and school computers.

I was pretty sure all NASA's (and other government agencies') work is publicly available anyway.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
Again, NASA is one example you can spend some time giving thought to.

That's okay. I have very little interest in working for the government as their payscales are seriously lagging.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCalebWilliams From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1336 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I was pretty sure all NASA's (and other government agencies') work is publicly available anyway.

And once you file the Freedom of Information Act request, it is.



Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I don't want to see them forced to use them, or any other particular textbook.

Students are already "forced" to use a particular textbook for a lot of courses. Why do you think the prices can get so high.? How much for basic books on math, chemistry & physics? Generic, prior knowledge textbooks?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
A lot of it. Some of it is buried in eight decade old reports.

And wouldn't it be great to pay NASA staff to develop e-textbooks for free use? Or do you prefer paying them unemployment, food stamps, etc.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I'm sure some of them will, for private companies.

Of course some of the ex-NASA engineers will get work elsewhere. Others head to unemployment and all the benefits your tax dollars can provide.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I've never heard of teachers or professors getting kickbacks, although it may happen.

It's more of the old scratching each other's back game. There has to be some way to boost those prices.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I have heard professors select a book over another one because it was cheaper.

And i"d bet that those would be the first to support electronic textbooks delivered free to students.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Neither do I. I go to the bookstore or Amazon and buy a book, thus paying people to have worked on the project of creating said book.

Same here - I go to B&N for something to read. Not only my favorite writers, but I hit the Bargain Section to look for new writers. At $7 or less for the Bargain Section I don't care about free downloads - though there is a lot of free (or near free) fiction available.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5800 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

At this point, the conversation has nothing to do with Obama raising the minimum wage. How about starting a new thread on college textbooks? I personally wouldn't care but when a thread on a topic you are interested is flagged as "new posts", it's a waste of time to keep coming back to irrelevant conversations.

So how about a new thread guys?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2851 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

This thread nearly from the beginning has had nothing to do with the possible increase in minimum wage. It will be archived. All posts after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.
Thanks
Pat



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
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