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Budget Stalemate Whos Fault?  
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

With the US budget deadline just 48 hours away who is to blame? IMHO 100% of the blame is on the democrats and Obama. They want to spend this country into oblivion, then raise taxes on the job creators which is a huge mistake.
Obama Care is a huge expense this country cant afford as well as all the other spending Obama has done.
To make a budget work we need to slash spending my trillions, not rack up more. I am so scared for our future.

316 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

The only reason we are here is due to the GOP not wanting to raise the debt ceiling without cuts. Not sure how this is Obama's fault. Truthfully this is a bigger problem for the GOP and Tea Party than it is for the Democrats.

Honestly the cuts just aren't that big, but they will affect a lot of people in a lot of businesses. I just wonder if the Tea Party and GOP will stay united.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 1):
The only reason we are here is due to the GOP not wanting to raise the debt ceiling without cuts

Nor should we raise the debt ceiling. That's makes about as much sense as me not being able to make my bills, then go out and spend more or get more in debt. If we get rid of Obama Care, cut Social Security, Medicare, and other social programs we could not only eliminate the deficit, but have a surplus and pay down the debt.

Obama has spent more in four years than every other president in history. Not good.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Nor should we raise the debt ceiling.

So this is just a flaimbait thread, not based on the real world or common sense?



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

It's the fault of the American people. Voting in representatives who promise to NOT compromise, regardless of political party. We did this and we need to deal with the results of our choice.


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Budget Stalemate Whos Fault? 

Everybody's.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Nor should we raise the debt ceiling.

You obviously don't understand what exactly the debt ceiling is.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7884 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

I think this is way overblown honestly. I think the cuts are very mindless, but cuts do need to be made. I wish that both sides would have come together and cut just as much (actually, I'd prefer more) in the right places.

The GOP has made nothing easy in years, but the Dems are hardly blameless. I do believe we have a spending problem, I still don't see how anyone can think we don't, and I don't believe you can realistically raise enough revenue out of this hole. So both are to blame, sounds cliche, but both had made their errors

I'm not gonna adopt either side's battle cries either, though, a lot of them are full of it too



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1329 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Obama has spent more in four years than every other president in history. Not good.

That's true of every President since Hoover, because of inflation.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Nor should we raise the debt ceiling

If we don't and we default on our legal obligations to pay our bills, the economy will probably contract by around 10% in 2 weeks- i.e. a horrendous recession.

Even threatening to default is incredibly reckless- it's estimated that the 2011 debt ceiling standoff cost us 19 Billion over the next 10 years just from the effects of making the bond market nervous. Just from threatening to do something we ended up not doing! This is the way the economy works- it's not comparable to your credit card bills.

As BMI727 says above- if you think we shouldn't raise the debt ceiling you need to read up more on exactly what the debt ceiling is!



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3006 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
With the US budget deadline just 48 hours away who is to blame? IMHO 100% of the blame is on the democrats and Obama

The budget control act came out of the White House, correct.
Obama, Gene Sperling the White House National Economic Council Director along with Jack Lew then White House Budget Director and Ron Nabors White House Legislative Affairs and Joe Biden VP.
The bill was carried and given to Harry Reid Senate Majority Leader.

The bill does not reduce any debt. It only limits year to year automatic budget increases simply put.

The same 20 state tour with 3 staged press conferences a day that is going on now was going on then with the same children, police officers, infrastructure and teachers that will be thrown to curb if we do not pass the bill are now going be thrown to the curb because we passed the bill.

I will just leave it with the facts.

Okie


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

We've simply continued to spend beyond our means.

Raising taxes and continuing to make the tax payer responsible for government actions is not the answer as it simply helps encourage the out of control spending habit.

Sole answer is to chop, chop, chop.

Yes it might be crude, but at some point we must bring spending inline with incoming revenue.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Am I incorrect in thinking that the cuts would be approx 2 to 3% across the board? If so (and I may be incorrect), any entity whether it be an individual or a family or a corporation or a government that can't handle a reduction of a few pennies on the dollar probably needs to be shot at sunset. Or at least not listened to.

This tedious perpetual fear mongering by the lame politicians to score D vs R points for their even lamer constituents is beyond obscene.

Although I am of the opinion (and this is only my opinion) that Obama and his power-hungrey cohorts are very smart, very astute and magnificent operators of sort of a Chicago-style thug political cartel that is successfully waging a winning war with a certain amount of masses (about a few percentage points more than half the voting public, think?), I also believe the perhaps ignorant to what really counts political opposition is equally as culpable. Most are dollar/power whores on both sides.

I have seen the US government become another major industry in my lifetime (and I've been voting for one-half century...and I started voting when I was 21), and it appears that most politicians don't give a shit about me, or any other constituants (including you other USA A.netters) as long as they keep their power and prestige. This b.s. about the current "crisis" is just that. Pure B.S. Fear mongering.

Reference the thread starter refering to Obama and the Dems being 100% for blame for the current "crisis", I must disagree (although it appears that this whole sequestration junk began because of Obama's political crap-shooting: it was his, or at least his team's, original idea and now he's throwing it across the aisle).

It's the WHOLE band of bandits on both sides. So, as much disrespect I personally have for Obama and that bunch political whores, I offer no accolades to his basically sophomoric opposition team because most of them are political whores too.

Just observations from an old-timer. But, hey....that's what the forum is all about. Best regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
I think the cuts are very mindless, but cuts do need to be made.

The cuts are mindless. If you have a car and want to force the driver to get an oil change, you'd do it by making the air conditioner not work rather than disabling the brakes.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Yes it might be crude, but at some point we must bring spending inline with incoming revenue.

Closing the deficit for one year would take something like a 70% wealth tax on the top 1%.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 10):
Although I am of the opinion (and this is only my opinion) that Obama and his power-hungrey cohorts are very smart, very astute and magnificent operators of sort of a Chicago-style thug political cartel that is successfully waging a winning war with a certain amount of masses (about a few percentage points more than half the voting public, think?),

They certainly haven't gotten to the level of running something like that. Emanuel left Obama to be the dictator of Chicago after all. That said, you could certainly make the case that Obama bought 2012 with public money when he bailed out the car companies.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 10):
I have seen the US government become another major industry in my lifetime

You have. Although all spending has increased, the biggest increases leading to the current situation have been entitlements, both from the New Deal and more recently the Great Society programs.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline3DoorsDown From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Whose fault. Politicians. They are all a bunch of whiny, sniveling, piss ants who only care about two things. Themselves and getting re-elected. They should all go back to second grade. Third graders act more like adults than these clowns.

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1870 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3920 times:
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Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Nor should we raise the debt ceiling.

The debt ceiling is not something that is a bargaining tool. It would be the same as bargaining with your credit card company over last month charges. You spent that money already there is no bargaining to be done there.

Our problem in this country is we want a certain level of government services and we refuse to pay above a certain amount of taxes. We have to reduce the expenditures and bring the tax revenue inline with what we spend. 1 cant be done without the other and expect to fix anything.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11582 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
100% of the blame is on the democrats and Obama. They want to spend this country into oblivion

Except the right were spending this country into oblivion and that was fine. In fact, the then-vice president told the American people that "deficts don't matter" and kept spending.

But, I keep forgetting, the Bush/Cheney years don't count, according to MSM.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
raise taxes on the job creators which is a huge mistake.

Oh, for the love of....

SMALL BUSINESS CREATE MORE JOBS IN THE USA!!! Not huge multi-national corporations!! These people (multi-national corporations. Corporations are people, per the right-wing) pay less in taxes than many of us do. AND they get more in welfare than all of us qualify for! They get handouts but we deserve nothing? We make so much less than they do. How is that right? Add to that, they don't create jobs (so workers can pay taxes) in the United States. How is that a good thing?

Besides, these "job creators" have had decades to give us jobs. What is our unemployment rate? How has that worked out?

Who's fault? The politicians who "kick the can down the road" instead of actually taking responsibility and actually doing something. At least we know Boehner wants to spend even more, as evidenced by his support of the Paul Ryan budget. That monstrosity has been voted down twice, thank gawd, but he tells the American people it is the Senate's fault they don't want to spend more? I have a little respect for Bohener for standing up for something. Even if it does throw even more debt onto the deficit, at least he stands up for something!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinekngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days ago) and read 3864 times:
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How about we not put ourself in another recession and worry about our comparatively small debt when our economy is doing better. Why do people still clamor for austerity when we have seen it doesn't work? The European countries that cut the most in 2010 and 2011 are now the ones that have gone back into recession. Our government, wisely chose stimulus spending instead of austerity. Our recession ended much quicker and growth rates have been much higher. Not high enough, but most of Europe would be jealous of our 2-3% growth.

Our government can borrow money at a negative interest rate when you consider inflation. Our debt to GDP is around 75%, compare that with the 230% that Japan has and they can still borrow at low interest rates. We share a lot more with Japan than we do with Greece. All the freaking out about us being the next Greece is so misguided.

Economic growth should be the #1 priority in this country right now. Cutting spending is about the worst thing we could do.


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3838 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 10):

The insanity of all of this is that even with the cuts, the Federal government will still spend more than it did last year and about $1 trillion more than was spent in 2008. The fed apparently never stops spending more yet every single one of us has tightened our belts the last 5 years. Most people I know haven't had an increase in compensation like that in the last 5 years. This pretty much disproves the theory on government spending stimulating the economy. We're no better off as a country financially than we were in 2008 and we've spent trillions trying to prove that federal spending improves things. That's like saying if you spend all your salary on stuff and over borrow against your home to cover it you won't lose that home when you can no longer borrow and spend. This is exactly why we had an economic collapse. People thought, and many still think that revenue (equity) from growth (property value over time) is limitless and it most certainly is not.

I wouldn't say it's "our" fault. Some people know how to save, vote accordingly and hope for the best.

[Edited 2013-02-27 06:13:42]

User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 8):
The budget control act came out of the White House, correct.
Obama, Gene Sperling the White House National Economic Council Director along with Jack Lew then White House Budget Director and Ron Nabors White House Legislative Affairs and Joe Biden VP.
The bill was carried and given to Harry Reid Senate Majority Leader.

Okie, to start there you are ignoring the debt cieling negotiations that got destroyed by the Tea Party. This whole sequestration was supposed to be a poison pill that both political parties would seek to avoid through negotiations.

Both political parties failed miserably in that regard. If everyone is so against these cuts, but the argument from the GOP is that we should cut elswhere or more then I feel the GOP position on negotiations is untenable, because there were solutions to postpone the cuts longer or raise offsetting taxes to make it a more balanced approach.

Right now the GOP defense hawks are hopping mad at the defense cuts, whlle the Tea Party GOP wants more cuts. The GOP is going to rip itself apart before long. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later for the sake of this country.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3924 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
If we get rid of Obama Care, cut Social Security, Medicare, and other social programs we could not only eliminate the deficit, but have a surplus and pay down the debt.

Why didn't Bush and the Republican Senate do that between 2002 and 2006? Because its political suicide to do it - but its fair game to claim the other side are idiots for *not* doing it.

Its always the opposition parties job to lambast the other side for not doing things that they themselves would never do anyway.


User currently offlinekngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3811 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
The insanity of all of this is that even with the cuts, the Federal government will still spend more than it did last year and about $1 trillion more than was spent in 2008.


A large part of our deficit comes not from spending, but from loss of revenue. Tax receipts are down to the tune of $350 billion in 2011 compared to 2008. Add another couple hundred billion for the unemployment benefits and you have a huge deficit before spending a dollar on any stimulus.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
The fed apparently never stops spending more yet every single one of us has tightened our belts the last 5 years.

Which is exactly why having the fed do the same thing is a terrible and counterproductive idea. If the government chose the route of austerity instead of stimulus then just look to Europe for how we would have fared. Back in recession.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
This pretty much disproves the theory on government spending stimulating the economy. We're no better off as a country financially than we were in 2008 and we've spent trillions trying to prove that federal spending improves things.

We are growing at 2-3% per year, it has improved things. We aren't back in a recession like most European countries that did what you're advocating.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
That's like saying if you spend all your salary on stuff and over borrow against your home to cover it you won't lose that home when you can no longer borrow and spend.

The government can borrow and spend as much as the market will allow. Using history and other countries as examples, we are very very far away from hitting any borrowing limit. Like $10+ trillion away from being toe-to-toe with Japan, which is still able to borrow cheaply.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21564 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 2):
Nor should we raise the debt ceiling. That's makes about as much sense as me not being able to make my bills, then go out and spend more or get more in debt

If you're going to rail against the debt ceiling, it's a good idea to know what it actually is (and it's not what you think it is).

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Who's fault? The politicians who "kick the can down the road" instead of actually taking responsibility and actually doing something.

   Why would anyone choose to make investments in this country when policy changes are threatened every couple of months in Congressionally-manufactured crises? Just pick a national strategy and stick with it - it doesn't have to be the best one, it just has to be one that we can live with and that we won't try to screw around with for political gain at the earliest possible convenience. And once people realize can feel confident that their investment today isn't going to be made worthless by Congress tomorrow, they'll invest, and the economy will benefit from it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

The blame for the budget stalemate falls clearly and completely on one group.

The voters who keep sending these fools back to Congress every two years.

We have seen this coming for 20 years as the political process has become more and more separated from reality.

Congress must be willing to work with the administration, even one they do not like, to ensure bills are passed which the President will sign. To keep the government running.

Proposing bills they know the President will not sign without enough votes to override a veto is a failure of the Congressmen's basic duty to the nation. It is a deliberate violation of their oath of office.

FIRE THEM ALL IN 2014 !!!!


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7884 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3763 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
100% of the blame is on the democrats and Obama. They want to spend this country into oblivion

Except the right were spending this country into oblivion and that was fine. In fact, the then-vice president told the American people that "deficts don't matter" and kept spending.

But, I keep forgetting, the Bush/Cheney years don't count, according to MSM.

Going further in the past for blame does us no good, we need to analyze the situation now

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
raise taxes on the job creators which is a huge mistake.

Oh, for the love of....

SMALL BUSINESS CREATE MORE JOBS IN THE USA!!! Not huge multi-national corporations!!

I think that is what he is talking about. I don't know all the details of everything put out by the left, but some of it at least appears to be harmful to small businesses in addition to the larger ones. More research and elaboration must be done, but you may have read what he was saying incorrectly



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8837 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 21):
Congress must be willing to work with the administration, even one they do not like, to ensure bills are passed which the President will sign. To keep the government running.

Proposing bills they know the President will not sign without enough votes to override a veto is a failure of the Congressmen's basic duty to the nation. It is a deliberate violation of their oath of office.

But what if the President is not reasonable? The House has twice passed budgets which would have softened the impact of the sequester with targeted cuts, but the President and his party refuses to even look at them.

As your post exemplifies, there are plenty of people out there that buy into the idea that we don't need any cuts, in fact we should increase spending, and make our kids pay for it. It's sad when a country has degenerated to a point where the current generation is willing to sacrifice their children's future in return for current comforts.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12447 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
IMHO 100% of the blame is on the democrats and Obama. They want to spend this country into oblivion, then raise taxes on the job creators which is a huge mistake.

If GOP/Bush doctrine was right, the tax cuts Bush put in would have avoided all this stuff. Instead all we've seen it do is fuel corporate and individual greed, a housing bubble and resulting collapse, and waves of outsourcing.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama Care is a huge expense this country cant afford as well as all the other spending Obama has done.

The major inflator of cost over the last few decades for all levels of government has been the cost of health care. Some how you seem to be OK with not addressing that?

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
To make a budget work we need to slash spending my trillions, not rack up more. I am so scared for our future.

Were you saying the same thing when Bush/Cheney/Rummy were spending trillions off-budget to invade Iraq and Afghanistan?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 1):
The only reason we are here is due to the GOP not wanting to raise the debt ceiling without cuts. Not sure how this is Obama's fault.

  

There was a "grand bargain" on the table during the debut ceiling negotiations, and it was Boehner who could not deliver his side. They don't seem to realize that to make a bargin you must give something up you don't like to get something you do like. They seem to think they can just obstruct till the other side caves. I think it was that very episode that convinced Obama he had to play hardball. On the preceding Bush tax renewal he got reamed out by his own party for putting everything on the table right up front and then getting done over by the GOP, and after those two episodes he's learned.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 1):
Truthfully this is a bigger problem for the GOP and Tea Party than it is for the Democrats.

Indeed, and I note how you mention these two separately. The GOP's biggest issue is that this issue is a wedge, for their own party: their own members and others who call themselves conservatives dislike what the GOP congressmen are doing!

Quote:

While 74 and 68 percent of Democrats and liberals, respectively, approve of the president's handling of the issue, 51 percent of Republicans and 57 percent of conservatives disapprove of the performance of GOP lawmakers. Even among "very" conservative Americans, 54 percent disapprove of the congressional Republicans' approach.

Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/brink-budget-s...-121007509--abc-news-politics.html

So we see Dem unity and GOP dis-unity. It's like last year's election, where the GOP just could not believe they were backing a bunch of losing policies.

We also see across the board that the GOP, aka 'The Party of No', is the one being given the blame.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 10):
Am I incorrect in thinking that the cuts would be approx 2 to 3% across the board? If so (and I may be incorrect), any entity whether it be an individual or a family or a corporation or a government that can't handle a reduction of a few pennies on the dollar probably needs to be shot at sunset.

It's not that simple. Indeed all the agencies impacted are going to do the cuts, but there are some things you can't cut due to contracts the government has written. This is why the burden will fall mostly on civilian employees, because it's relatively easy to tell them to stay at home. They won't file a court injunction like the big defense contractors will.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):
The insanity of all of this is that even with the cuts, the Federal government will still spend more than it did last year and about $1 trillion more than was spent in 2008. The fed apparently never stops spending more yet every single one of us has tightened our belts the last 5 years.

Right, but the core issue is that medical costs are growing much faster than the rest of the budget. This means the money the fed puts out for medical for civilian and military employees, civilian and military retirees, and Medicare/Medicaid is going up like crazy.

Addressing this was a goal of Obamacare, but the distractions thrown up by both the lobbyists and the right wingers made it difficult to get much savings worked into it.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 DeltaMD90 : 1: When you say "refuse to look" do you literally mean they completely refused to look? 2: Were these proposals ones that "softened the impact" but i
26 Post contains links and images einsteinboricua : Evidence? Last I checked, under Obama, the budget deficit has actually shrunk as opposed to grown. But hey, I guess when the guy in charge is from th
27 kngkyle : Did your generation sacrifice and suffer hardship to pay off the WWII debt, which was 120% of GDP instead of the 75% we're at now? No. In fact, we ne
28 StarAC17 : If he was unreasonable then congress would be able to send him a veto-proof majority. Yes, but I question if that is wise in the short term where no
29 tugger : And don't forget about $4T of that debt is actually earning money in the form of the "Quantitative Easing" that the Treasury has done. Yes it is like
30 zckls04 : Depends when in 2008. We aren't better off than we were before the financial crash it's true, but we are most certainly better off than when Obama to
31 rfields5421 : Do you know the definition of an economic positive driving small business? 25 to 100 employees Growing employment by at least 10% per year Employees
32 seb146 : Seemed to work until 2008. What I want to know is: Democrats are willing to negotiate. The right is not. Why is that? Also: the right keeps complaini
33 Revelation : I think you should take into consideration that: And before that we had the 'commission report' etc. So there's been more than enough time for that k
34 EA CO AS : Can you explain why the Democrats don't want cuts? Shouldn't EVERYONE in the government want cuts (which aren't really cuts anyway, but merely slowin
35 Post contains images ER757 : That's right. Why oh why do people keep sending these bums back term after term? Congress' approval rating is at crush depth and has been for years,
36 FlyPNS1 : I think Democrats do want cuts, but they're not the same cuts the Republicans want. Hence, the problems we're having. The other problem is that gover
37 BMI727 : I'm not saying it needs to, I'm just illustrating the magnitude of the issue. Anyone who says this is a revenue problem needs their head examined. Co
38 Revelation : I guess you haven't hear Obama mention the "balanced approach" over the last, oh, six to nine months? No one wants cuts, but if they are done in conj
39 FlyPNS1 : It's not scandalous, but it completely undermines the story that taxes are "hurting" the economy. The economy has more of it's revenue to spend as it
40 kngkyle : No. Some of us want growth. It is the best way to reduce the deficit after all. And it's how we have historically overcome our deficits. You outgrow
41 DeltaMD90 : Because they are, you have bias of your own. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of politicians on the right that aren't budging. You see that on th
42 BMI727 : Taxes don't help the economy. Some of the things taxes pay for are needed to have an economy at all, but the stock market never crashed because taxes
43 zckls04 : Cuts slow growth. We need growth. We don't need to reduce the deficit. It's as simple as that.
44 Post contains links mt99 : . The stock market is doing just fine - thank you very much Dow rallies to new 5-year high http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/27/inve...stocks-markets/inde
45 Post contains images Stabilator : Holy crap, If you actually believe that, your head must be examined!
46 zckls04 : Once the economy has recovered we can worry about the deficit. Right now it is a non-issue. If you think I need my head examined, tell me why this is
47 zippyjet : All of them! With a slight nod to the Republicans in the House. And also to all the BS government waste and crap like subsidizing tobbaco and other st
48 Post contains images Stabilator : Ill take subsidizing tobacco off the table if you take subsidizing green energy off the table I think you are the only person I've heard say that. No
49 okie : I am not ignoring anything. Just stating that I just can not remember a politician spending hundreds of millions of tax dollars on a political tour t
50 zckls04 : I'm not asking "economic experts"- I'm asking you. What is so urgent?
51 Revelation : Baloney. Have you ever been a part of a budget review of something bigger than, let's say, a hot dog stand?
52 seb146 : Some of them are. Yes. The ones that count are not willing to negotiate. Yes, but that has nothing to do with this. Entitlements. You know: those pro
53 DeltaMD90 : I meant that more and more Republicans seem to be splintering off... they are an unorganized mess but I'd prefer it that way since when they were org
54 Post contains links Ken777 : You also dramatically increase poverty for those in their 60s & 70's. Really impressive. Then add in the massive burden of health care in the US
55 Post contains images Ken777 : Which would still leave them in the top 1%. It really doesn't matter how high we raise their taxes - they have the political power to ensure the loop
56 okie : Everyday. Thank You. They have had a year and a half to figure it out. Pathetic Okie
57 Stabilator : Economic uncertainty puts businesses in stasis. Reduced hiring, not spending their money, etc. Even in the best economic times, owning a business is
58 BMI727 : You talk like that's somehow wrong. It's not the middle and lower classes giving the government most of the revenue. The government is paid for by th
59 Ken777 : The closer we get to the sequestration the more I believe if is just another piece of political crap that we are going to be enduring for the rest of
60 ikramerica : What I postulated in the other thread is proving true. $45 billion in unspent already allocated funds just sitting there to be spent. Combined with a
61 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Exactly. We needed to do it 20 years ago. I wish we'd do it today. The problem is, we'll do it in 20 more years when I REALLY won't be ready. It's pa
62 Post contains links Ken777 : I don't believe you understand the power of money in building wealth at the costs of the middle & lower classes. You want to see the power of mon
63 Post contains images BMI727 : Jimmy Carter pretty well renders that argument moot anyway. So, middle and lower class people want more say, middle and lower class people ought to p
64 PlanesNTrains : Funny, isn't it? Actually, it isn't funny at all. But it is happening. Some would argue that they are doing so by voting for the D on the ballot. I d
65 StarAC17 : With what money?? That is not how democracy works and it is designed so that everyone has a say. Humanity has learned through very painful experience
66 Flighty : In China, it is commonly known that the US doesn't have a future. Yes, Bush cut taxes and increased spending hugely. Really our problem is Bush's inn
67 seb146 : There are many sides to this. I simply pointed out one that I see. I made the point that I understand there is more than just "Obama is to blame" tha
68 Post contains images Stabilator : The Left is hardly pro-small biz. They gave the country horrific health care legislation that many small businesses have come out and stated they can
69 zckls04 : We cannot default on our debt unless we choose to. The government cannot "go bankrupt" since it controls the supply of money. The risk and uncertainl
70 Post contains images StarAC17 : Well does China?? I call a on the US not having a future but there has to be a will to fix the problems in the US and encourage innovation. Right now
71 zckls04 : I always find it amusing that people assume that 1) China can grow indefinitely and that 2) If China overtakes the US the US is doomed. Being #2 isn'
72 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : But when you do it back, it's nothing more than droning on with repetitive anti-right one-liner's. You say that the right just responds mindlessly, b
73 BMI727 : Maybe or maybe not. Funding all sorts of wonderful programs is easy when it's not your money. That's the thing, it would be difficult for them, but t
74 Mir : It is absolutely wrong. Except that campaign contributions don't come from tax revenue. The lower and middle classes could be taxed twice what they a
75 kngkyle : Yes. I wish we would stop talking about it. At least until the economy is in better shape and unemployment isn't so high. Trying to balance our budge
76 FlyDeltaJets : It is not a short term issue that deserves the constant attention that it gets, but it is something that needs attention for the long term. If the US
77 rfields5421 : I would love to see your numbers because Mitt Romney, the Republican party, the Republicans in Congress and all the 'Tea Party' candidates all strong
78 Flighty : R's don't aim fund today's government on the backs of the middle class. It is a little bit more nuanced. They argue that if only rich boys pay to run
79 RomeoBravo : The US is and likely always has been in recession, the government is simply lying about the true inflation rates. Yes it would. An economy based on d
80 Flighty : That is like saying my BAC dropped from 0.20 to 0.14. It is still at an unhealthy level. Do we really need to spend 50% of US GDP on government servi
81 zckls04 : Well it isn't completely surprising; they're just using a convenient tool to advance their ultimate agenda for smaller government. It's in their inte
82 Post contains images kngkyle : Ah yes. Everything is a lie. We're all fools. The government isn't the economy. What you are saying has a *little* bit of truth in the private econom
83 RomeoBravo : It's true though. The CPI/RPI like the unemployment rates are constantly being abused to hide the true figures. Over here inflation is massive and yo
84 arrow : The flaw in that approach is that growth is not likely to fix the problem. The US and other countries have gone through this before, and always been
85 zckls04 : You're quoting Flighty but that's actually my post. Why are things different this time? You concede that the US and other countries have gone through
86 Post contains links BMI727 : I don't think so. Look at it from the perspective of the top earners. They pay the bulk of the income taxes in the country and much of the political
87 RomeoBravo : Yes you do. By cutting spending you stop propping up industries that shouldn't be there and only exist due to the false economy that exists. By killi
88 arrow : The best example I can come up with is Canada in the early 90s. Our debt and deficit spending policies had driven us so far into the hole that the Wa
89 zckls04 : In other words, economic growth fixed the problem- cutting alone would not have worked, which is exactly what I'm arguing. Maybe I'm missing somethin
90 seb146 : And how much of that do they get back from the government in the forms of subsidies and tax loopholes? So, we have a revenue problem but we don't nee
91 DeltaMD90 : That one does but I challenge you to provide a link to a serious proposal that had some real cuts with revenue gains that aren't wildly high. I won't
92 Mir : This is a misinterpretation of that narrative. The argument is not that the rich simply need to pay more taxes, it's that they won't be hurt by spend
93 BMI727 : Tax loopholes is not getting back, it's never paying. Even with tax loopholes, the chart uses AGI, the top quarter still pays 70% of the taxes. It's
94 Mir : And that's what spending cuts are all about. And if we could ever agree on what to cut, then we'd make progress there. The rich benefit from the gove
95 seb146 : No, it's not. So, 50 million people paying 35% in taxes is not enough taxes being paid but 100,000 people paying 15% in taxes is too much tax being p
96 Post contains links and images Ken777 : I gave you the link, but here it is again: http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/2...at-makes-health-care-so-expensive/ You're assuming that all parts o
97 RomeoBravo : Nonsense, they'll just sell the products they make to their own people. If there were 2 people on an island and 1 was a Chinaman, and one was an Amer
98 BMI727 : That's not entirely the point. The point is to make sure they feel the pain. Of course you can get behind government programs you'll never have to pa
99 PlanesNTrains : I never said I disputed it. Then talk to them. Don't come here and address the rest of us as if we're racists until proven Obama supporters. I find f
100 Ken777 : Actually they will be eating electronic parts. And there will be lots of leftovers for them. So that's your new standard for America? Let the poorest
101 BMI727 : It's a necessity. It's far too easy to support expensive things that you'll never have to pay for. See Friedman's four ways to spend money. That isn'
102 Gatorman96 : Legalize all drugs, tax them, and end the drug war. The annual savings that would otherwise be spent on war and revenues from taxing these drugs (simi
103 Ken777 : No it's not. And how is that retail job going? Do you think you would hold the same opinions if it starts to appear that there will be no engineering
104 BMI727 : There appear to be no engineering jobs now, so yeah. As do the wealthy. Or just reassess other spending and how the revenue comes in. FairTax revenue
105 Ken777 : Fair tax totally ignores the long list of other taxes average people get hit with. The only ones who win are the top 1%. There's time, even though st
106 PlanesNTrains : And again, Ken, I say your comments towards others regarding race are shameful. It has nothing to do with where I live or what you've seen or anything
107 BMI727 : FairTax doesn't ignore them, it abolishes them. I'm sick of hearing this because it isn't true. Let's do some math. Just to make the math simple, let
108 seb146 : And when that same 25% gets back all they paid plus additional, that's just fine? At a 15% rate when the rest of us pay 35% or more?
109 Post contains links BMI727 : Oh? Check figure 8 on page 31 of this report. I haven't had the chance to go through all of this, and it seems dreadfully boring, but that seems to a
110 seb146 : So, people who make less money request (and are sometimes granted) more in federal aid. So? Someone who can "prove" they use their jet for a business
111 BMI727 : It is just fine. No, she gets to deduct that expense from her gross income. Not the same thing. If you want to get rid of that sort of thing just sup
112 seb146 : Well, because of right-wing supported and passed legislation, she (and ALL corporations) get to deduct any and all "related" expenses (cruises, car r
113 BMI727 : Exactly how is a rental car, food, hotel, and flight a questionable business expense? As far as cruises, well it depends what you're researching. How
114 RomeoBravo : Why do you think that? There are many many more Chinese people than Americans. Plenty of demand there.[Edited 2013-03-01 00:22:02]
115 seb146 : When it is not a "business" but they still work and take deductions as a busness, how is that acceptable? "I am flying to Switzerland to check on my
116 Post contains links BMI727 : What constitutes a business in your world? An author doing research for a project is most definitely a business. I fail to see why you look down on a
117 Post contains links rfields5421 : But as usual you didn't post the most important part of the rule because it shows your opinion is false. The uniform worn by the janitor is only dedu
118 Post contains links Mir : The percentage of the population is irrelevant. What matters is what percentage of the income those 25% have. The top 10% hold 74.5% of the wealth in
119 Flighty : State and local govt are about half of government footprint (and historically used to be over 90%). Sources differ, but the combined government total
120 rfields5421 : Ronald Reagan did a great job of removing tax rates that were actually punishing on the highest income owners. Most folks don't remember when the US
121 Post contains links and images tugger : And the reverse is mostly true too. Though there are adjustments in companies as taxes change, over the long term, with taxes around what we currentl
122 BMI727 : Chances are the janitor has less than the $6000 plus of deductions and so will just take the standard deduction. It's not fundamentally different, he
123 Post contains links BMI727 : Because people vote, not dollars. Just use the actual FairTax plan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairtax
124 Ken777 : So you have just abolished Social Security and Medicare? Will you support free distribution of the traditional Blue Pill to the elderly and disabled
125 BMI727 : FairTax isn't a new method of spending, but a new method of taxation. That would have to be a separate issue. Replaced by the universal sales tax. Th
126 PlanesNTrains : I think that is often the missing piece of the puzzle on the right. They mention that the wealthy pay X % of the overall tax burden but don't say how
127 CalebWilliams : What you mean is the people that pay income taxes (from their wages) loan that money to the government and the government returns that loan (interest
128 tugger : OK, and people voted for the taxes. Thanks for the source link. Not too bad but one thing I notice is: "Also excluded are investments, such as purchas
129 BMI727 : They voted for taxes on other people. Most Americans walk into the voting booth with the ability to go shopping with someone else's credit card. It's
130 Post contains links CalebWilliams : Not to mention those that vote on social issues. While http://www.people-press.org/2012/09/.../for-voters-its-still-the-economy/ suggests that the Ec
131 Ken777 : So you don't have ANY protection for Social Security and Medicare? And what about all of those bonds supported with existing sales taxes? Only takes
132 BMI727 : No, it's funded by the sales tax. What's difficult to understand about that? FairTax is a federal plan. How states and cities want to fund themselves
133 tugger : Not really true, most people vote on taxes they pay or might pay someday. I know that I vote for taxes for myself because it is the best thing for th
134 BMI727 : They don't though. People know they probably won't ever have an income over $250,000 so it won't make a difference if those tax rates increase. Peopl
135 tugger : Do students vote? Do people just starting in their career vote? Do you vote? And I do try to vote as best I can to not be unfair to people. I happen
136 BMI727 : Yeah, and they get to indirectly reach their hands into the pockets of others. Why would a teacher or a retiree not want higher taxes on the rich? It
137 Ken777 : Well, the difficult part is that there is currently a huge number of local bonds that are guaranteed with sales tax revenues. For some reason I doubt
138 BMI727 : There is no reason why they need to be moved. Just like there is often a state income tax along with a federal income tax, or a state sales tax in ad
139 Mir : So long as 10% of the country holds 75% of the wealth, that's always going to be the case. You could take everything the bottom 90% has in taxes and
140 BMI727 : Fix the taxation inequality and you'll fix the will to embark on expensive programs of little utility. People will question things like EAS and NEA m
141 Post contains links seb146 : PREFACE: I am sick of people accusing me and others on both sides of any debate of posting skewed figures. Why can't people Google stuff themselves. I
142 Post contains links tugger : Because they are fair about things and want to be fair about what they vote. And again, people are voting on taxing themselves in the future as well.
143 BMI727 : Some people pay more than others. And the people doing the paying often aren't the same people doing the cashing. By that measure half of the country
144 tugger : Well mostly, I have a serious issue with things like SSDI which is an "entitlement" and the system was never really designed for that. The reasoning
145 BMI727 : I don't think anyone denies that. However, that does not change the bottom line regarding the flow of money from top to bottom via the government. It
146 seb146 : The right loves to talk about building jobs for America but they are the first to ship jobs overseas by cutting taxes. How patriotic is that? If you
147 PlanesNTrains : Ya, I saw them - thank you. I just picked one post to comment on for simplicity. And vice-versa. There are plenty of conservatives who don't like the
148 BMI727 : The jobs have to be here because here is the best place for them, not because of punitive laws that stack the deck. I want the jobs in America, but A
149 PlanesNTrains : I know it's late, but I'm trying to follow how cutting taxes sends jobs overseas.....? Now you are doing it too? I just love how being Conservative m
150 StarAC17 : It's a general observation of the entitlement programs of the US vs Canada and the programs are quite similar. We have a Single payer health care sys
151 EA CO AS : Perhaps you've forgotten how Reagan's intent was to build the military knowing the Soviets couldn't possibly keep up economically? Does a 'balanced a
152 darksnowynight : Ok, so.... Who's at fault for this one? Well, a lot of people will try to say "gee whiz it's a little of everyone" in some attempt to hide bias. Since
153 EA CO AS : Perhaps you've forgotten how the leader of this supposedly "dying party" reached out to broker a deal in the spirit of bipartisanship - a deal that w
154 darksnowynight : Because it was a bad deal crafted in bad faith would be my guess. If otherwise was the case, the certainly they could pass it with a veto-proof major
155 Flighty : Obama only cares about spending as much as possible. That's all he cares about. But it is still better than starting wars based on nonsense.
156 Dreadnought : So cutting spending is not an option for you, I take it? Obama got extra revenue. The GOP caved in on both taxes and on spending cuts back in Decembe
157 zckls04 : I'll leave that for others to decide. I'd imagine though that credibility is won by reasoned argument rather than tired old distractionary devices li
158 Mir : It's not a question of whether they earned it or not, it's the simple fact that high income inequality isn't good for society as a whole, and is ulti
159 seb146 : The right needs to stop being racist, then. I am just calling 'em as I see 'em. How? By giving even larger tax breaks to multi-national corporations?
160 Dreadnought : Agreed, the GOP is relatively inexperienced and not as competent at propaganda as the Democrats. You see, we don't like to assume that the people are
161 BMI727 : The problem is that people shouldn't be earning money for society as a whole, they should be earning it for themselves. The high earners are not doin
162 Post contains images darksnowynight : It certainly is; read the part of my reply where I pointed out that we are doing to ourselves now with military spending what we did to the Soviets i
163 Mir : Maybe not play hardball with the debt ceiling and back themselves into a corner where their only choice was to go along with the sequester or push th
164 BMI727 : Sure it does, just hire somebody to go to the store. Or at the very least it helps the kevlar vest market greatly. Of course, I give the non-wealthy
165 seb146 : Considering that is what the right-wing wants. Starve people and let them die. Good old Christian values!
166 par13del : In my mind this type statement is part of where the dialog fails and the public is left misinformed. At face value, the GOP did not take the spending
167 Dreadnought : Unemployment is not edging down. It is edging up. At best it's stuck at near 8%, and the CBO says it is going to stay stuck for at least another year
168 NASCARAirforce : Both sides are at fault!!! Did any of these (pardon my language) assholes volunteer and say they would do their part by taking salary cuts? Every Sen
169 Mir : No, the Democrats should have kept pushing the balanced approach they've been talking about. This whole "first we'll get the tax increases out of the
170 darksnowynight : Of course I shouldn't generalize. It's the GOP congressional members at fault here. Is that clearer for you? On the other side, you have folks like E
171 par13del : Here is where I believe that the Senate fell down, they are elected to 6 year terms and have severely limited numbers for a reason, they are supposed
172 rfields5421 : It is so very sad that this joke is taken seriously. The House DID NOT DO THEIR JOB. Yes, they passed a budget they knew would not pass the Senate or
173 par13del : Ok, to be accurate, it is not their job to pass a budget that will be approved by the senate or signed by the president, it is a process, no budget i
174 Post contains links Dreadnought : That's the way budgets have been created since they started issuing budgets. You think Tip O'Niell issued bipartisan and passable budgets? Or Foley,
175 Dreadnought : Only because the Democrats stated months ahead of time that they would not consider any budget. Defend that.
176 rfields5421 : No, it is their job. They are all, Republicans and Democrats, House and Senate, collectively and individually responsible for passing a budget which
177 rfields5421 : I'm not defending anything. I'm saying defending the House Republicans with the statement "They passed a budget" is just as........(insert derogatory
178 par13del : Agree 100% I think that what they are missing is that all of them in both chambers along with POTUS were elected by the people based on a method of g
179 Ken777 : That is going to double or triple the sales taxes paid (in total) and you believe that it will help the economy? Sadly the middle class is shrinking.
180 par13del : I hope your government does not do what is being done here and around the world, create jobs by creating more government positions. When the governme
181 Mir : So would I. And you can lay that blame squarely at the feet of the Democrats. But that doesn't absolve the House and its GOP leadership from their sh
182 seb146 : Boehner and McConnell are talking about gutting two programs the American people pay into: Social Security and Medicare. Both would give a one-time ca
183 BMI727 : I bet it will help spending. And there would be no more income tax, meaning that companies (and by extension their shareholders) will do better or pr
184 Dreadnought : Do you have a source indicating that the proposed GOP budget was not workable? Obama's budget was unrealistic, being based on ridiculous economic ass
185 Mir : That would be one way of dealing with paying for things that Congress had previously agreed to pay for. But that's still dealing with spending that h
186 seb146 : Private sector jobs are growing and government jobs are shrinking but the right-wing still hates what is going on. The policies of the last four year
187 Aesma : Does real estate get taxed like a supermarket purchase in the US ? Does stocks/bonds ? Because that's on what the rich spend a lot of their money.
188 BMI727 : Not at all. That's exactly what should happen. I'll be a lot happier when I see some of it. As I understand it, goods and services will be taxed but
189 Post contains links Dreadnought : Sorry, Obama beat them to it. $716 billion cut from Medicare, announced 3 weeks ago. http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ezing-medicare-advantage-
190 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Forgive me as I type this because my hands are shaking. Maxine Waters has said that if the sequestration happened, 170 MILLION American jobs would be
191 NASCARAirforce : Where are they getting the money though in these budgets? When the country agrees to pay this money - what are they using to back it up when they agr
192 darksnowynight : I don't know... a bad person, I guess? I'll let you know as soon as I find a party that actually does this that I want to side with. For now, I'll ju
193 rfields5421 : Sure - my source is you. You said the budget did not pass the Senate. That makes it unworkable in fact. The actual numbers are not the point of conte
194 Dreadnought : It would not pass the Senate because they found it to be politically advantageous to do so, not because there was anything inherently wrong with the
195 rfields5421 : No I don't, But you obviously do. Thus your defense of the unworkable House Republican budget. The House Republicans are every bit as guilty of playi
196 BMI727 : Of course they don't. You're talking about socially conservative blacks and (Catholic) Latino populations. Actually used items would be exempt. It wo
197 seb146 : Except when the right holds a majority of seats in state legislatures and the governor. If they truely were doing it fairly, based soley on populatio
198 Flighty : That is largely because of Obama's inflation and energy policy (ethanol, drilling limits) re: gas and milk.... and because Obama refuses to take step
199 CalebWilliams : I totally agree with that, but it just seems there are more people turned off by the social issues side of the GOP currently. At least from what I he
200 Post contains images Ken777 : Three sides really - you forgot the Tea Party - the Real Elephant in the room. Wel, the Military is going to get hit with cuts. The Totally Unnecessa
201 BMI727 : It's not the real estate market keeping me from getting a good job. It's lack of defense spending. The market during the mid-2000s was pretty good if
202 Aesma : About VAT (a French invention), do note that EU countries all have one, from 18% to 27%. They also all have income tax nonetheless.
203 CalebWilliams : Whereas I could just as easily say: due to decreased funding toward the National Endowment for the Arts, just shut down VA hospital, clearly a useles
204 Post contains links CalebWilliams : "The budget requests $401.7 billion in discretionary budget authority for the Department of Defense (DoD). This represents a seven percent increase o
205 NASCARAirforce : Tea Party and Republicans will come to agreement at the end of the day, so it is still a 2 party system. In the end they all stood behind Romney last
206 Aesma : There is no need to do any fudging on VAT with companies, they don't pay it. They either buy stuff without VAT (special invoice) or pay the VAT when b
207 PlanesNTrains : I think I'll just respectfully disagree because we probably just see this differently. The biggest issue for the Voter ID laws - or so I thought - wa
208 seb146 : It actually started long before Obama. It actually started during the previous administration. Remember when McCain suspended his campaign to find a
209 DeltaMD90 : Don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but I agree, he needs to be more assertive and strong willed IMO. Some people just don't have that pre
210 BMI727 : I'm willing to pay for police and a military. Plasma screens for every trailer in the park, not so much. Very simple: I think I'm good enough. I'm wi
211 Ken777 : And with our 10 years of war winding down there is going to be some cuts in spending. The smart defense companies will continue to hire engineers who
212 BMI727 : I'm not counting on any of that being around by the time I retire, but I can always save my own money. Whether it comes from employers or just out of
213 seb146 : Actually, Spokane splits. They are conservative Democrats. When looking at Washington State, it is the Puget Sound that is solid Democrat. Oregon, ho
214 Ken777 : If you let the Financial Sector lead you around like a cow (bull?) with a ring in it's nose it might not be. There is an easy trillion over the next
215 BMI727 : People need to take control of their financial well being to not let that happen. The money managers work for you, not the other way around. Getting
216 PlanesNTrains : That's changing, though, and at the end of the day, Democrat starts with a D and is what is being selected the majority of the time over there. Of co
217 Aesma : Is that even thanks to your health care system ? Here you never hear of women getting rid of their breasts as a "precaution".
218 seb146 : On this thread it is, but it does raise interesting issues about media and the spread of information. It is an interesting study.
219 rfields5421 : Good luck. Be sure to save at least 30% of your gross salary each year, and you might be able to live without Social Security and Medicare.
220 FlyPNS1 : Then you chose the wrong career path....engineering is not the path to quick wealth. If you believe this, you are doomed to never make much money. On
221 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Refreshing to hear someone say this... this thread has been plagued with "oh the Democrats aren't putting anything forward and are shooting down ever
222 par13del : It should also be noted that in spite of both tax regimes they still have budget deficits, so either they are spending too much or they are not raisi
223 mt99 : I agree 100%. The solution is obliviously somewhere in the middle - as most solutions to problems are. And while neither party should get 100% of wha
224 Post contains images Ken777 : Actually, to get rid of the albatross you would have a Medicare Tax on both business and individuals. It's just that the total costs is LESS. Wrong.
225 BMI727 : That's probably about what it would take. It's a lot easier if you keep other expenses down. Oh I know engineering can't last too long, the salaries
226 tugger : Actually that is not true. Yes, for "generic" online submissions there are keywords screening systems in place but I know for a fact that positions a
227 Mir : You keep saying this, yet you also keep saying that the reason you can't get a good job is because the government isn't spending enough on the milita
228 BMI727 : In that case I guess I just don't know the magic job-giver and nobody seems to know where to find him. I never said it's the only reason, but pulling
229 mt99 : You me as a tax payer to pay for your job?
230 tugger : There is no magical "knowing", it is just being out there in the community, knowing people and working with others. A good way is to volunteer, churc
231 Mir : You could say the same for a whole lot of other people in other sectors whose jobs are partly dependent on government involvement. I know several of
232 BMI727 : It doesn't help me personally. I don't want to do any of those things. I want a real job. If someone doesn't seriously want to potentially hire me fo
233 DeltaMD90 : For someone who talks about taking risks and doing all you can to accomplish your goals, you sure give up easily. Do you not think that the dozens of
234 BMI727 : So does everybody else who got hit by sequestration. There's no way around it. There's no reason to be needlessly optimistic. I call it like I see it
235 FlyPNS1 : You're missing the point. If you did some of those things, you'd meet people who could help you find a job. I know at least two people who recently g
236 AeroWesty : Networking is a life-long pursuit—a collection of the people and experiences where you've been helped and others have helped you, along with presen
237 DeltaMD90 : If you knew me, you'd know that I'm not talking about blinding optimism (I hate that, I'm neither an optimist or pessimist, I'm a realist.) I'm not t
238 Post contains images Mir : If you're smarter and more capable than 90% of the population, then you'll find one. I have to say that at this point, it doesn't sound like it's the
239 BMI727 : ...or I'd just meet a bunch of people who I don't really want to deal with. My church is mostly full to brimming with useless advice like "have you h
240 BMI727 : Sure, but my friends are my age and mostly in school, and the family and friends all have the same useless advice which is to go through the system b
241 Post contains images AeroWesty : You completely missed the point of my suggestion, but that's okay.
242 DeltaMD90 : My experience is trying to get hired as a pilot or considered for an Air Guard unit and yes, it can be that easy. I can tell you about a few people t
243 Post contains images tugger : So does everyone else that is looking but those that REALLY want the job, you know the ones that employers REALLY work to hire because they show moti
244 zckls04 : Out of the three serious jobs I've ever had, for two of them I was the only candidate. For the third I was one of two. Networking is all about reduci
245 BMI727 : It never goes to that though. It always ends with "use the website, that's how we have to do all the hiring." Then, if I make a shortlist, they might
246 Post contains images par13del : For once I would like to see either party talk about spending cuts with no pre-conditions, if you are going to raise taxes before spending cuts why n
247 DeltaMD90 : Always? I can assure you that's not the case, always. Suck it up and keep at it. Again, I don't know any AE guys that got jobs through networking (on
248 Mir : Then again, you don't really want it to, do you? -Mir
249 AeroWesty : Sure he does. When it benefits him, in ways such as government subsidized loans for schooling, or defense budgets to provide for jobs in his area of
250 Post contains images BMI727 : In my experience, yes. And that's probably over a dozen contacts, some of which get further than others, but it all comes down to tossing my applicat
251 DeltaMD90 : Neither you or I have experience. You've been searching for how long? Plus, what about the people on this board that have indeed had years of experie
252 seb146 : Overall, more people voted for Democrats than Republicans. Tally all the votes in total, and Democrats should be in charge of both houses. We have a
253 BMI727 : 14-15 months. No, but what everybody (not just here) says has a disconnect with my experience. Anything that will demonstrably help me get there. Was
254 DeltaMD90 : Um it's not that simple, and I doubt you want to live under that system. Do you want Democrats to have pretty much free reign when they win the elect
255 rfields5421 : The CEO gets you past the keyword gauntlet. Here's how it worked at the last company I worked for. I got a call from a friend I know from working on
256 rfields5421 : It is my belief that we are all going to really hate the legal precedent that came from Tom Delay's redistricting in Texas. It ended up at the US Sup
257 DeltaMD90 : Sucks but that is quite normal, some people go much longer. You are far from "trying it all" Is that a problem with everybody, or just you? What inte
258 BMI727 : At some places I'm sure that's true, but not at the company where I have multiple contacts from what I'm told. I've sent my resume to multiple people
259 rfields5421 : Probably not - but it does bother me when the state legislature speeds 25 to 50 million dollars on redistricting, and thousands of man hours that wou
260 par13del : Both sides re-district when they have the power to do so, don't think it is possible to single out one side as being better than the other, they are
261 JM017 : I have said this all along. Nice to know I am not alone. Two are to blame: 1. And I mean democrats, republicans, all of them. 2. Yes, us the idiot vot
262 Ken777 : That is one of the continuing impacts of The Great Recession. The only thing really going hard these days are the apps for iOS and other mobile devic
263 BMI727 : Even with a house, five years' pay sounds kinda bare bones to me. That would be somewhat self inflicted. Ending up a failure is very much on the tabl
264 rfields5421 : That was in 1986. A house, two paid off vehicles, no debt, no credit card debit, a defined benefits pension, two social security checks because my mo
265 seb146 : Well, no. When have Democrats re-districted to their advantage? When have Democrats re-written the rules to force everyone to vote for their party? E
266 Post contains links BMI727 : Things have changed a lot since then. Thinking in today's money, if you figure a (generous) salary of $200,000 per year would give you savings of $1
267 PlanesNTrains : "In Illinois, it is the GOP that is unhappy with the district changes made in their state. Shortly after the Illinois map was passed into law, every
268 seb146 : So, two states. As opposed to how many right-wing states? Ohio, North Carolina, Texas, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and... But the Democrats are the worse
269 BMI727 : That's not what you, or anyone else said. You said: Ask and ye shall receive.
270 PlanesNTrains : Hey, you know what they say about people in glass houses.... Besides, weren't you the one that said this: And quit playing the victim. It isn't that
271 darksnowynight : Fair enough. Mandating inflated health insurance payments will effect poorer folks disproportionately and is a huge part of the reason I feel that th
272 FlyPNS1 : Sounds like you're actually supporting his point with this. Democrats should have an advantage in Illinois, a state which on a whole is Democrat favo
273 seb146 : That's another thing: right-wingers love to lump all who are against them into one group: "liberal" who hate America, hate big oil, hate corporations
274 BMI727 : So here's the question then: Democrats are willing to work with everyone and support a "balanced approach" to revamping the budget. But do they reall
275 DeltaMD90 : Seb Seb... if you let your party get away with their evil, even if it is less evil, you are doing everyone a great service and are basically being a
276 Post contains links Dreadnought : Meanwhile, the Washington Times reveals that the Obama administration is not interested at all in softening or mitigating the impact of sequester. htt
277 Post contains links mt99 : Meanwhile.. " The Dow was more than 150 points higher at one point, reaching 14,286.37. That tops both the Dow's intraday and closing records that we
278 tugger : Well at least there may be some hope for you. What you present here is not what I would call "good" for a job hunt but if you do know how to moderate
279 Post contains links Dreadnought : What's your point? We don't live for the stock market. A company that contracts business, stores cash and does not invest in growth ventures will inc
280 CalebWilliams : No, you just work at lesser rate the whole time. Stop being dramatic.
281 mt99 : quote=Dreadnought,reply=279]Or are you saying that if the stock market is rising everything is peachy?[/quote] It was during the Bush years...(pre 200
282 Post contains links Ken777 : That is really going to depend on how health care is delivered in the US. If we continue on that path then the health system will be able to wipe out
283 BMI727 : Being honest is generally bad for a job search. Of course I'd say that it's everybody else that gets the mistaken impression of how I am. I detest ha
284 casinterest : Only if you are incapable of doing the job you are interviewing for. Yes it is a nice thing about internet forums, but if you were completely ignorin
285 seb146 : I feel I need to clarify something for all political threads I post in: I understand there are many different shades of Republicans as well as many di
286 par13del : If you look at it as something Boehner wants then fine, it's not balanced, but from the country point of view a different story. The massive overspen
287 BMI727 : Not necessarily. Anyone can look bad with too much honesty. Present the cleaned up Disney version. Clicking a link isn't a problem. Getting to know s
288 seb146 : So, we should just not even think about bringing in more money. That will be the best thing? Giving tax breaks to a few hundred people solves everyth
289 Longhornmaniac : BMI727, You and I, though we have very different outlooks on life and haven't agreed on much, have more in common than either one of us would care to
290 BMI727 : Not actually true. The only person spouting anything about being un-American is you, and you appear to be the only person talking about the talk show
291 casinterest : Sure, the false BS method works great in Hollywood and politics . Not in Engineering, Perhaps I was mistaken on what you wanted to be. But i am sure
292 BMI727 : I'd be stupid to not always answer questions with serious consideration to what the interviewer wants to hear. Opportunities for unabashed honesty ar
293 PlanesNTrains : Well, I wonder what "true social equality" is? That's an honest question, and it can be rhetorical because it's off topic and I'm getting a little wo
294 Longhornmaniac : Of course I can't speak for all companies, but my company is largely an engineering firm and that's how we do it. After meeting with the right people
295 Ken777 : These days the battle is only focused on improving tax positions for the very wealthy. Romney made no secret that he felt capital gains should not be
296 Ken777 : These days the battle is only focused on improving tax positions for the very wealthy. Romney made no secret that he felt capital gains should not be
297 BMI727 : I've heard the same and seen it go nowhere, not even the "more information" stage. Then you should support FairTax, which would take out basically al
298 darksnowynight : That doesn't make any sense at all. Since when? In a lot of ways we're already there. You can't, for example, expect to slander someone or thing with
299 par13del : Now you understand the stance of the Tea Party, they refuse to consider tax increases the same way you refuse to acknowledge that spending cuts are a
300 Flighty : Of course. Usually or even 90% of the time, things fail. So here's my pep talk (starting with, 'we're not so different, you and I' I am maybe 8 years
301 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Why not? If you don't police up your party, you end up with a bunch of people with holier-than-thou attitudes that support their parties even when th
302 Post contains links Ken777 : A FairTax is simply going to suck more tax revenues out of the middle class and the poor while letting the wealthiest in the country pay less. Take a
303 rfields5421 : What I don't understand is you support the FairTax because it applies equally to everyone who spends money. But you do not support a tax that says ev
304 BMI727 : Exactly. I've written things that are ridiculous, but contain keywords. Resume me and real me are not the same person. Seb and other liberals are lit
305 Ken777 : And the harshest comments from the voters will be on Defense. Especially after the abusive treatment W & Dick & Rummy lid on the troops. Fair
306 BMI727 : If the money is spent on overseas bases, it has less impact. People will quickly realize that closing tons of bases here is bad, since nobody likes t
307 seb146 : You sound EXACTLY like Rush and FOX. Too much like them, for my taste. You simply cut-and-paste from them and it is scary. Some Republicans actually
308 BMI727 : I'll have to take your word for it on that since I don't watch or listen to any of that. Only in your world, because those are the ones you like. The
309 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : It's always so frustrating to keep having these people thrown in your face like you have them on an IV drip or something. I have a 6 minute commute -
310 darksnowynight : Honestly, it's a cop-out, that's why. The problem is that while it's very easy and convenient to say "well, those extremists don't speak for me", the
311 DeltaMD90 : IDK, I'm trying to be objective, it really does sound like you overreact to a lot of right-leaning posters and start going off on things they didn't
312 PlanesNTrains : I'm not advocating war with Iran. My concern, though, is that if push comes to shove, we'll be forced to punt due to the previous war in Iraq. In oth
313 rfields5421 : Our leaders, both Democrat and Republican, for the past 25-30 years have been purposely decreasing the size of the US military forces. Even during th
314 BMI727 : I would never seriously consider supporting either Ron or Rand Paul since their ideas on foreign policy seem straight out of 1930. And yet some peopl
315 seb146 : Then why to Rush/Hannity backed politicians have control if so many people disagree with them? That is what I have such a huge problem with. Since th
316 Post contains links iowaman : Thank you to all who have remained civil and followed forum rules in this thread. I will be opening up part 2 here due to length of this one: Budget S
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