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Falkland Islands Sovereignty Referendum Part 2  
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9077 posts, RR: 76
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3922 times:
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Part 1 got a little long, so here is part 2.

Link to part 1 again:

Falkland Islands Sovereignty Referendum (by moo Mar 7 2013 in Non Aviation)


It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCamiloA380 From Sweden, joined Feb 2008, 486 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

Ok so from part 1...

Quoting Derico (Reply 232):
You would think Argentina had caused a World War or something, or had once a far-fledged, anti-democratic, anti self-determination, culturally supremacist empire in the past 400 years, to get so trashed and unfairly painted.

That's the way I feel too.

Quoting aloges (Reply 234):
Some Argentinians are far too easily offended.

I'm not Argentinian, I'm half Swedish half Uruguayan. 
And no, I'm not offended at all and never will be offended, I don't take things I read on the Internet so serious.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 237):
So to summarise your post: you really haven't understood, or chosen to understand, anything. And there have been some very detailed and informative posts in this thread.

Wrong, I've actually read every single reply. There have been detailed and informative posts yes, but just as much as what I would take it as hateful comments against Argentinians.

Quoting aloges (Reply 263):
Due to current events, I believe that Argentina isn't quite as defamed, shunned, bullied and abused by everyone as some would have us believe...

Which is why I said "Only in A.net do you read this kind of stuff." 
I have discussed the matter about the Falklands with some British friends here, and never have they expressed anything hateful against Argentina, we totally disagreed when it came to opinions, then we were into our daily doose of joking and partying like any other close friend.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 280):
Well, Maradona's cheating I also disagree with, because it was wrong,

:D Give the guy a break he has had a rough life.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 311):
1. The attitude of some in this discussion, does point out to this belief. Specially Dano1977 who has actually called them "dumb"
2. See above.
3. See above
4. OA260 and RomeoBravo have referred to them as such.
5. See GDB, OA260 and a few others
6. That one, as such, I have not heard.
7, 8 and 9 Not really. Although it may be perceived as such, I choose the benefit of the doubt.

Pretty much, 6: It would be the least some could say. 7, 8, 9: Yup, I have perceived it as such.

I'm the one with the opinion that the Falklands should belong to Argentina, and I've heard many arguments and different point of views....read a lot to inform myself, but I still stick to my opinion.

Does that mean I want war? Hell no, war is extremely dirty. And it really is the last thing we need in this world.

Does that mean I support CFK? Not at all, because I want something else for South America/Argentina than what she wants. I want people investing in our countries, I want to see more private South American companies. I want the middle class to be a majority and not a minority. No one should be in hunger, and without food or anywhere to sleep, poverty is something South America has to tackle big time. I want people to stop thinking back to the conflicts we have had between us, and behave like neighbours.
No more and no less than how we currently live here in Scandinavia.

Do I think CFK is making a big fuss about the Falklands? Yes, for reasons that have been mentioned before: Distract people from local problems.

Does it mean I have some sort of dislike for the UK? Not at all, having been to the UK, there are just so many things that are example, and that people should regard to when solving problems such as security...education...etc. Heck I admire how close the people sit to the pitch in football matches, without them doing anything harsh to the players. Kudos for that!



Flying4Ever!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

So in summing up .

1: The people of the Falkland Islands have the right to self determination.

2: This status will not change until such time the Islanders wish it to.

3: Argentina can wish to have the Falkland Islands in their portfolio but in reality it will not happen without the will of the Islanders.

4: For eveyones sake it is better for Argentina to be less agressive in its claims and stop imposing sanctions on the people of the Falklands as this will only make the Falkland Islanders more determined.

5: Argentina needs to recognise the right of the Islanders rather than ignoring them and pretending that they dont exist.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Trust the British press to find a weakness and exploit it. Apparently the new Pope scored a pretty spectacular 'own goal' last year, with regard to the Falklands:-

"As Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Pope Francis once told a congregation of Argentinean veterans that those who died in the Falklands War were "reclaiming what is theirs" during the conflict.

"During a Mass on April 2 last year to mark the 30th anniversary of the start of the war, Bergoglio called for the vindication of "all" of those who fought against the British over the Falklands Islands.

"We come to pray for those who have fallen, sons of the homeland who set out to defend his mother, the homeland, to claim the country that is theirs and they were usurped," he said.

"Many young people were there and could not return. Others returned but none could forget.

"Many scars, many families destroyed by permanent absence or a return cut short. The country needs to remember them all."

"His comments in front of former conscripts and families of the 649 who died were recorded by Buenos Aires news agency Diarias y Noticias and widely reported in Argentina at the time."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...rpers-over-Falklands-conflict.html



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2739 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3833 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
So in summing up .

You summed it up well. CFK is just trying to take the focus off the problem's within Argentina.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11668 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 1):
Wrong, I've actually read every single reply. There have been detailed and informative posts yes, but just as much as what I would take it as hateful comments against Argentinians.

Sorry but there really haven't been the barrage of hateful comments you are suggesting. There have been numerous critical comments aimed at the Argentine government, but that is another thing entirely.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
Trust the British press to find a weakness and exploit it

He was announced Pope at 6.08pm GMT and it took the Telegraph until 4.00am to break the story. They must be slipping.  



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 6):

He was announced Pope at 6.08pm GMT and it took the Telegraph until 4.00am to break the story. They must be slipping.

Must be the cut backs LOL....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gree.../telegraphmediagroup-digital-media


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Just to further clarify for AR385, since I mentioned retaliatory action against Argentine flagged vessels, I meant to mirror (less the mobs making a noise), Argentine actions against Falkland flagged ships exactly. Nothing on the high seas, which AFASK the Argentines are not doing?
Just restrictions on Argentine ships using UK ports.
Only after requests to end their action are answered, you'd like to think it would be, however with the current Argentine governments record they probably won't.

But I'm no maritime lawyer, it might be better to take it to whatever body regulates this sort of thing, which I believe I mentioned before.
If that fails to move Argentina, then retaliate in kind.

Always ironic that Argentina and their supporters always imply, always assume the UK to be an aggressor, not just military either.
Considering who began the armed conflict in 1982.
Considering who ripped up agreements on oil exploitation.
Considering who took illegitimate action against merchant vessels.
Considering who is constantly engaging in aggressive statements as their idea of 'diplomacy'.

So far, the one response from the UK is to re-affirm the wishes of the only community who has ever settled on the islands, which just happens to be the arbitrating factor in these sorts of disputes at the UN.
So at least the UK might save CFK some planes fares to the UN, with her loudly announced trips there to press her 'case'. (With a rather quieter return each time).

Given that Argentina has at times had territorial disputes with her Latin American neighbours, including nearly going to war with Chile more than once, you have to wonder when diplomacy instead prevailed, whether the Argentine government cited this UN emphasis about the wished of those living in these places, when their own people might have been in these disputed areas.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 8):
So far, the one response from the UK is to re-affirm the wishes of the only community who has ever settled on the islands, which just happens to be the arbitrating factor in these sorts of disputes at the UN.

Agree, GDP - I think myself that's the 'controlling point.'

Furthermore, there is no evidence of anyone but the British, way back in the 1840s, having even dreamt of setting up any permanent 'presence' on the islands - which, at the relevant time, were unpopulated, barren, and treeless. The reason being that no-one else had any reason to land on them for any purpose, other than brief visits to shelter from storms, or to stock up on fresh water.

As it happens, Britain had special reasons for setting up a permanent settlement at what became Port Stanley; and those reasons were based on the existence of the 'British Empire', and also the 'Royal Navy' that protected it and its (literally worldwide) trade-routes. The British also set up a colony and a naval base at Ascension Island, and similar bases in the far Pacific, for the same reason. Argentina scarcely existed as a nation at the time (the 1840s); and certainly had no navy of any kind. So I'm sure that, at the relevant time, the Falklands were of no interest at all to them.

That notion rather 'leads me on' to suggest an angle that, to the best of my knowledge, has not been mentioned on the thread up to now. That the (arguably less than respectable  ) Argentinian government's main motivation in this continuing dispute is nothing to do with 'cultural ties' or anything else of the sort. But that, instead, the Argentinians are dreaming of controlling the Falklands (including the naval base there) because that would afford them the chance of a substantial amount of naval control of passage in both directions round Cape Horn.

Which might well, over time, transform them from just being a fairly prosperous ex-colony into a quite significant 'world power'?

Doesn't matter much really, of course - because they haven't got the proverbial cat in hell's chance of succeeding. But I'm as sure as I can be that that's a big part of their current, and continuing, motivation?

[Edited 2013-03-15 06:11:08]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
Argentinian government's main motivation in this continuing dispute is nothing to do with 'cultural ties' or anything else of the sort. But that, instead, the Argentinians are dreaming of controlling the Falklands (including the naval base there) because that would afford them the chance of a substantial amount of naval control of passage in both directions round Cape Horn.

I believe it is less sinister, just the age old trick of diverting attention from pressing domestic issues.

Not entirely disimilar going on with Spain re Gibraltar: back to long lines at the border, searching every other car, Gib police boats chasing the Armada out of Gib territorial waters every other week.... real shame as under the PSOE govt, the level of cooperation was higher than it ever had been.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7713 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 10):
back to long lines at the border, searching every other car, Gib police boats chasing the Armada out of Gib territorial waters every other week.... real shame as under the PSOE govt, the level of cooperation was higher than it ever had been.

   Real shame. Thoroughly disgraceful harassment of our territory by a fellow EU country.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Patriotic feelings aside, surely it makes sense for the Falklands to stay British, purely for the farming subsidies that their sheep and cattle are no-doubt eligible for? Some quick googling tells me that there are fishery subsidies aswell. Their relationship with the Chancellor of Exchequer must be rather convenient (financially).


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7713 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3371 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 12):
Their relationship with the Chancellor of Exchequer must be rather convenient (financially).

Absolutely. Unfortunately those sorts of issues have no bearing on the Argentine position though, and what makes sense for the Islanders is of supreme indifference when it is Argentina's position that they simply shouldn't be there anyway.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinejoacocifuentes From Argentina, joined Sep 2012, 122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Hello everyone! I have been reading all the replies and I'll explain myself as clear as my english let me.

Malvina's Island or Falkland Islands (whatever) were part of the Spanish Colony till 1833 when British took them illegally.- Someone said that Argentina didn't have any intentions of setting over the islands, but that's wrong. When HSM Clio arrived to the islands there was people living there under Argentinian jurisdiction.-

WHY ARGENTINA DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT KELPERS SAY?

Because THEY ARE NOT NATIVES, they are british ! And of course they wanna be british.

ARGENTINA DID NOT STARTED A WAR

It was a military gov that was going crazy with USA's help.

Also, Argentina wants Falkland Islands because they are economically good for us and because inhabitants of Tierra del Fuego province (Indigenous) have been to the island even before Colombus got to America.

Cheers, Joaquin


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11668 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 14):
Malvina's Island or Falkland Islands (whatever) were part of the Spanish Colony till 1833 when British took them illegally

The British claim pre-dates the Spanish claim, both of which are pre-dated by the French claim. The Spanish acquired the French settlement and fought the British, both ultimately ended up leaving and both left assertions of their sovereignty when they did so. Neither rescinded these claims therefore it is impossible for them to have been taken illegally.

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 14):
ARGENTINA DID NOT STARTED A WAR

   Oh jeez...

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 14):
Also, Argentina wants Falkland Islands because they are economically good for us and because inhabitants of Tierra del Fuego province (Indigenous) have been to the island even before Colombus got to America.

You cannot be classed as an indigenous population of a specific location unless you live there - there is no proof whatsoever that the Falklands had any inhabitants before the Europeans arrived - the islands were completely unoccupied. In fact even the fleeting presence of Patagonian natives is uncertain and disputed by archaeologists.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4017 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 14):

The colony that existed in 1833 was governed by a spaniard who had requested and gained permission from both Argentina and Britain to found an colony independent from both countries, but supported by both. I have no idea why Argentina agreed to such a situation, but the British agreed because the Falklands were an important stop over point for traversing the southern point of the Americas, so a functioning port of call would make things easier.

When the Argentinian government tried to take over the colony militarily, the governer requested that Britain prevent such a thing happening, which they did - shortly after, the governor was murdered by Argentinians, and the British took permanent governess of the islands on board, resulting in the current situation.

You really need to look at a history book that strays further than just the Argentinian viewpoint, because the view you have put over is dramatically polarised.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 14):
ARGENTINA DID NOT STARTED A WAR

Oh yes I forgot they were on a peace mission      

Military of otherwise it was still ARGENTINA !


User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

Seems like Argentina is trying just what I was expecting. Asking help from the Pope.

User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6357 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3178 times:
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Before anybody starts flaming Joacocifuentes with the usual force reserved for any Argentine in these forums who makes such comments, please take into consideration his age profile. Just saying...

User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 14):
Malvina's Island or Falkland Islands (whatever) were part of the Spanish Colony till 1833 when British took them illegally.

That was nearly 200 years ago so it doesn't count as a valid reason. I would understand this whole thing if UK had taken the islands from Argentina let's say 50 or 80 years ago, however after 200 years of British rule there should be no doubt who Falklands belong to now, especially as the very people who and whose ancestors have lived there for nearly 200 years want to stay under British rule.

If even half of the people wanted to go under rule of Argentina I would sure gladly support that, however as they clearly wish to be under rule of the UK there's no doubt who these islands belong to.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 19):
Before anybody starts flaming Joacocifuentes with the usual force reserved for any Argentine in these forums who makes such comments, please take into consideration his age profile. Just saying...

Indeed your right thats why we went easy on him   And added some humor. Still on a more serious note and as I very much pointed out in the other thread. If the youth of today are saying things like that then they are Argentina's future leaders and power holders. Kind of proves my point.   


User currently offlinejoacocifuentes From Argentina, joined Sep 2012, 122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
You cannot be classed as an indigenous population of a specific location unless you live there - there is no proof whatsoever that the Falklands had any inhabitants before the Europeans arrived - the islands were completely unoccupied. In fact even the fleeting presence of Patagonian natives is uncertain and disputed by archaeologists.

Actually, it's been proved because they found spears, leather...

Quoting OA260 (Reply 17):
Oh yes I forgot they were on a peace mission      

Military of otherwise it was still ARGENTINA !

Jajaja what I wanted to say is that, please, don't blame us, argentinians, for starting a war when it was just a military gov... WE didn't want that, neither the soldiers that were sent to the island, they were 18, 19 and they didn't know how to shoot a gun. My father was 18 when he was called -he didn't go, if you ask- And also, remember, that the war was already won when it was started...

Quoting pvjin (Reply 20):
That was nearly 200 years ago so it doesn't count as a valid reason. I would understand this whole thing if UK had taken the islands from Argentina let's say 50 or 80 years ago, however after 200 years of British rule there
should be no doubt who Falklands belong to now, especially as the very people who and whose ancestors have lived there for nearly 200 years want to stay under British rule.

Argentina has asked England to give back the Islands since 1833, the same year they took it...

Cheers!


User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

This is going round in circles.


If Argentina, want's the Falkland Islands back, then negotiate with the Falkland Islands Government. It's not up to London to decide if we hand them back.

But after the 1982 conflict, I think the response from the the Falkland Islanders would be "NUTS"*


* General MacAuliffe when asked to surrender during the Battle of the Bulge, 1944 reply to the German Commander*



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11668 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 22):
Actually, it's been proved because they found spears, leather...

That doesn't prove what you are saying, though. For a start the age of items which have been found is inconclusive, it's more likely that they were deposited after the first European settlers arrived on The Falklands, especially as the leather artifacts I am aware of, which you mention, come from the hide of livestock not indigenous to South America. Then there is the complete lack of any settlements, burials, or even semi-permanent habitation having been found, despite extensive surveys and exploration. So no, there is no evidence of any permanent habitation prior to the British arriving and inconclusive evidence of migratory habitation before then. Whatever else may be written in your history books is a blatant lie.

Quoting joacocifuentes (Reply 22):
Argentina has asked England to give back the Islands since 1833, the same year they took it...

Give you back? Britain claimed the Islands in 1765, Argentina became a country in 1810. So who exactly do you want the British to give them back to - perhaps France, who established a settlement there in 1764? After all, the Argentine claim is so ridiculous that France have more of a claim...


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
25 tugger : I suspect he was meaning existing at-the-time civilian habitation and not the trading of forts and outposts that went on everywhere around the world
26 RomeoBravo : Indeed, in fact it's actually doing a pretty good imitation of the real life debate. Perhaps it's time to lock the thread.
27 RomeoBravo : Anyway the next threat to the unity of the UK is the Scottish referendum, powered by the almost equally unbearable Alex Salmond. And whilst i didn't r
28 overlander : Interesting when people use the word 'usurped'. I am sure many people of the Falkland Islands can reasarch back their heiritage in the Islands longer
29 joacocifuentes : No, Falkland's people said by last referendum that they wanted to be british... Ok, so, If you are british we have to negotiate with your president o
30 GDB : I see the ghastly woman has gone crawling to the new Pope, someone she has previously been in dispute with (he's one of many then), to bend the man's
31 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I'm afraid you've rather missed the point. As has already been mentioned in this discussion, yes, if Oxford was (hypothetically) a British Overseas T
32 CamiloA380 : People should watch the movie "Blessed By The Fire" before claiming the soldiers that were sent to the Falklands are terrorists. Poor young guys at m
33 Post contains images PlymSpotter : From the beginning of the British forces arriving on land, perhaps, but it's not as clear cut as being won from the outset of the war. For a start, b
34 aloges : I'm sorry, since when can a country bear no liability for the actions of one of its former governments? I have a feeling that you're repeating what y
35 Dano1977 : As it's been said before, The Falkland Islands is a British Overseas Territory. All the UK Government does is take responsibility for defence and som
36 GDB : Well I'm sure they'd want to gloss over one of the most inept military adventures of modern times. Fact is the Argentines had the numbers, the firepo
37 NAV20 : Absolutely so, GDB. The British had to 'start from scratch,' organise a task force, get there, and do the job. I'm morally certain that the 'not very
38 RomeoBravo : Have you ever been to Diego Garcia Dano or is the flag there because it's pretty? Just curious.
39 Dano1977 : Just having read about the Argentine invasion forces surrender in 1982. The Argentines were certainly well dug in and looked to have some decent kit.
40 RussianJet : Interesting point about the ammo. Apparently after the surrender we actually took Argentine ammo and used it on our ships.
41 Post contains links finnishway : We were talking about oil in the Falklands in the first part of this topic. I just read news about this same topic from a Finnish economy newspaper. S
42 Post contains images PlymSpotter : It's also worth noting that Pyongyang has condemned the 'British Imperialism' regarding The Falklands. You know you're on the wrong side of the argume
43 GDB : Maybe they are still pissed off at the stand of he 'Glorious Glosters'! Presumably, as a combatant in the Korean War, they are, in their mind, still
44 Post contains images NAV20 : That applied to the infantry weapons too. The infantry on both sides used the (Belgian-designed) FN self-loading rifle, and the (British-supplied) St
45 Dreadnought : The Falklands belong to Britain by the fact that they have had them for a couple of centuries, have spilt blood for them on several occasions, and the
46 GDB : When the British troops began to capture Argentine FAL's, it was thought that the magazines could be used in their SLR's. Alas, this British/Commonwe
47 NAV20 : I think Argentina has an alternative - which is, over time, to re-establish more friendly relations. If they restored some simple things - like trave
48 Derico : Probably so. But let's just say that being opposite to the side of North Korea, e.g. USA or UK, is usually not the right side of history either. The
49 Post contains links zckls04 : Saddam did do a lot of things like this though (WARNING- not for the faint hearted): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:شهیدان_حلبچه.jpg Ca
50 OA260 : Who knows. Funny you should say that there was a documentary on it the other day and even Iraqis are split so there is no clear cut answer to it. Arg
51 moo : I don't mourn Saddams downfall, but I can have huge reservations about how it happened. Derico has a valid point there - the end doesn't necessarily
52 zckls04 : Oh I agree with that. But there's way too many people who see everything in black and white w.r.t. Iraq, and assume that they're able to make an easy
53 Derico : There is a clear cut answer: it was a criminal act by the Washington and London governments, full stop. You don't stop a rape by killing the rapists'
54 NAV20 : Derico, getting back on topic, can we take it that you see the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands as an equally criminal act?
55 OA260 : So with that logic see NAV20's post below. Exactly . It was a clear cut illegal invasion of British land. And unlike Iraq no one in the Falklands wan
56 Post contains links NAV20 : It appears more and more likely that that oil project 'has legs.' But, true to form, the Argentinians appear only to be threatening legal action - whi
57 Derico : Why do I have to keep answering this question? Do you all get some sort of warm feeling when you hear the answer. OF COURSE it was criminal. Who woul
58 CaptCufflinks : Coming from a German that is priceless! "To the victor go the spoils..." I see The Daily Mail headline now: "Argentina in bed with North Korea". What
59 RomeoBravo : The UK certainly doesn't think that. In fact many (probably most) didn't think that at the time.
60 Derico : Good, we agree. Now go worry about your own illegal and criminal invasions of other countries, far more recent than ours.
61 CaptCufflinks : Oh, you haven't heard? It's NOT yours.
62 Derico : I'll forgive you because you must think I meant you are "invading" the Falklands. They are yours. Just tell your government to stop whinging about wha
63 Post contains images OA260 : Why who is Argentina looking to invade and take land from now ? Maybe look at the Beagle conflict. Your country seems to have a track record ! The Br
64 CaptCufflinks : I don't recall anyone whinging. If you lot can't see the benefit of expanding your international trade and commerce, that's your call. It's a bit lik
65 Derico : Actually YOU should be thanking Argentina for keeping Thatcher afloat (unless you are not of her political persuasion). This is exactly why we want n
66 CaptCufflinks : If this is true then why have there been no such trials, sentences and executions? The truth, you see, is rather inconvenient - nobody likes a war, b
67 Derico : Simple: 1. No country has the balls to arrest Bush or Blair. 2. The USA and UK are not democratic or sufficiently "mature" and developed enough as a
68 CaptCufflinks : Those who want respect give respect. Simple.
69 Post contains links and images OA260 : Its amazing the kind of dream world your countrymen live in if thats how they think. The only legacy your governments gave to the Falkland Islands wa
70 RomeoBravo : .............
71 GDB : Maybe small wonder then what was the country of choice of fleeing Nazi war criminals? Quite. Aside from the fallen, there is something else on those
72 Post contains images RomeoBravo : ...or be worth half the value by the time it cleared.
73 CamiloA380 : And here we go again...."Argentines live in a dream world". Stop hiding it, just say it out loud. Testiment? Seriously? Do you know what respect for
74 NAV20 : They raise it on behalf of the islanders - who, as far as I know, still cannot travel through Argentina, or send their kids to schools or hospitals t
75 777ER : This thread is now being used as a bashing/flame bait/disrespecting other users/countrys thread. As a result this thread is now LOCKED. Any posts made
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