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The Drinking Age In The US Should Be Lowered  
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Some of you might remember this thread from a little while back:

18 To Play Lottery, But 21 To Play Slots? (by AlnessW Sep 22 2012 in Non Aviation)

And yes, therefore you might say I am "at it again" with a similar topic...

The drinking age in the US should be lowered.

21 years old? Come on! At 16 you can drive. At 18 you can sign a contract, get a credit card, buy cigarettes/tobacco, play lotto, buy hazardous products, and many more things. For God's sake, at 18 you can go to war and fight for your own country. (See more on this below.) But you can't have a drink.

I've always had a problem with the idea that people "magically" become mature at 21. If the state you live in thinks you're mature enough to operate a 4,000 pound killing machine (aka, "a car"), then you should be mature enough to drink.

You're an adult at 18. You should be allowed to drink at 18.

A drinking age as high as 21 only creates problems. People under 21 are just going to obtain it and drink, regardless of what the law states. It makes for potentially dangerous situations with people throwing "house parties," or drinking in private places where they can't be seen. Wouldn't it be safer if they were allowed to out to a bar or restaurant and drink there?

Another option would be to, for example, raise the driving age to 18 and lower the drinking age to 16. The idea here is that this would, hypothetically speaking, allow people to get the "binge drinking" and irresponsible behavior out of their system BEFORE going behind the wheel.

Lastly, I would like to share a video with you all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0SlVmytGHA

For the of you who aren't familiar with the TV show "What Would You Do?," essentially what they do is stage various situations such as shoplifting, racial profiling, abuse, or in this case "underage" drinking using actors in a public place. Then they hide cameras and see how people respond, and finally interview them at the very end. Very interesting show, I'd highly recommend it.

In this episode, 2 actors play young American soldiers who want to go out for a drink after recently returning from service. When they sit down at the bar, the bartender (also an actor) wants to see their ID. This where the trouble begins.

You'll see how various people respond to this situation, but the man at 5:10 really stood out to me the most by offering to buy them a drink, pointing to their uniforms when the bartender asks for ID, getting more and more pissed with the bartender when he refuses to serve them, and eventually going as far as to take them to another bar where he knows they'll be served.

Other people offer advice on different bars to go to, as well. This is a perfect example of how "following the law," and "doing the right thing" are 2 very different matters.

(Note: If it makes a difference to you, the actors that played the soldiers WERE actually over 21.)

I will step down now!

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8870 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
21 years old? Come on! At 16 you can drive. At 18 you can sign a contract, get a credit card, buy cigarettes/tobacco, play lotto, buy hazardous products, and many more things. For God's sake, at 18 you can go to war and fight for your own country. (See more on this below.) But you can't have a drink.

I've always had a problem with the idea that people "magically" become mature at 21. If the state you live in thinks you're mature enough to operate a 4,000 pound killing machine (aka, "a car"), then you should be mature enough to drink.

You're an adult at 18. You should be allowed to drink at 18.

As a rule, I think that the European model - where you can drink a couple of years before you can drive, is a good one. That eliminates binge drinking early, and teaches you what it's like to be drunk (and what a hangover is like) before you get near a wheel.

That means I believe in reducing the drinking age to 14 in the US - at least for beer and wine.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
21 years old? Come on! At 16 you can drive. At 18 you can sign a contract, get a credit card, buy cigarettes/tobacco, play lotto, buy hazardous products, and many more things. For God's sake, at 18 you can go to war and fight for your own country. (See more on this below.) But you can't have a drink.

By age 18 humans might be as tall as they're ever going to be, but nearly all of them are still children. A better idea might be to raise the age of some of those other things to 21.

Looking back at that time in my life from age 41, I wonder what the hell was the hurry.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13148 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

From the end of Federal alcohol prohibition in the USA from 1933, states could decide on their drinking age (if they allowed drinking, some states continued prohibition until as late as the late 1950's) But not less than 18. The US Military usually had a minimal age on USA bases of 18. Most states chose 21, the minimum age to vote and 'adult' status for contracts while others (including NY State) had an age 18 minimum. With the lowering of the Federal voting age to 18 by Constitutional Amendment in 1970, in part due as that one could serve in the Military and get killed at age 18, and a draft registration age of 18. By 1973, a number of state with a 21 minimum lowered it to 18. Some states, most notably California and Nevada, kept it at 21, some states like Oklahoma had a weird deal of males at 21 and 18 for women. Since the 1930's and before, adjacent Mexico and Canada had 18 or 19 age drinking laws, but always had much stricter drunk driving levels .

In the early 1980's the numbers of those under 21 or even under 18 being killed or injured by drunk driving crashes was skyrocketing, as many of that age range unlike the Europe and elsewhere had access or owned cars. Too many bars and stores were tired of the hassles and very expensive liability problems from 18-20 year old drinkers and worse, too many under 18 getting into bars and clubs. Many 18's are also in their Senior year of High School, with problems at Proms and other school events, in some places kids with hangovers and starting to have problems with excessive drinking.

Groups like MADD got started over the terrible rate of death of their teen children. That led to a tied Federal law of where all states had to raise the drinking age to not less than 21 in a few years or lose some Federal highway funds. That policy also led to lowering the thresholds of DWI from .10 to .08 %. Many states also put in laws where those under 21 caught drunk driving or even possessing alcohol can lose their license for at least 1 year and/or they turned 21.

Given the history of the last 40 years, I don't think many want to go back to the drinking age of 18 in all or most states. I do think the penalties for drinking if 18 to 20 years old should only be a minor penalty to themselves, although strict (or even stricter) for any age drunk driving.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Wouldn't it be safer if they were allowed to out to a bar or restaurant and drink there?

Not only no, but HELL no. You can always crash out at a friend's house... you can't sleep at the bar.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
That eliminates binge drinking early

The UK would disagree with you.

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 2):
By age 18 humans might be as tall as they're ever going to be, but nearly all of them are still children.

Only because our society treats them like children. It's amazing (and infuriating) seeing people complain how others won't take care of someone's precious little 25-year old kid that they have sent out alone.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
From the end of Federal alcohol prohibition in the USA from 1933, states could decide on their drinking age

They still can. As you said, the only thing stopping them is the highway funds.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
Military usually had a minimal age on USA bases of 18.

That's left up to each installation commander. Most officially use 21, but I've never heard of anyone younger than that getting busted, so long as they didn't cause a ruckus.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11737 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

The only problem I see with lowering the age to 18 is this could increase drinking in high schools. I think we should lower drinking age, but to 19 instead. I also think the states that allow marijuana sales should lower those ages to 19.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2999 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
The Drinking Age In The US Should Be Lowered 

Not if you want to keep federal highway dollars.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
drinking in high schools.

That already happens anyway. Those who want to drink will do so. It may make it easier for them to access liquor, but that's not a big stone in the path as it is today.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineboeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

My kids can have a lowered drinking age about as soon as they get kicked off my medical insurance at the government mandated age of 26. Come to think of it, if kids need their parents for medical insurance until they are 26 then maybe they shouldn't be able to drink or vote until they show they are responsible enough to pay their own way.

User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Quoting boeing717200 (Reply 7):
My kids can have a lowered drinking age about as soon as they get kicked off my medical insurance at the government mandated age of 26.

You can kick your kids off of your insurance whenever you want.

Thanks for the off-topic rant, though.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
As a rule, I think that the European model - where you can drink a couple of years before you can drive, is a good one. That eliminates binge drinking early, and teaches you what it's like to be drunk (and what a hangover is like) before you get near a wheel.

  

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
That means I believe in reducing the drinking age to 14 in the US - at least for beer and wine.

  
Agreed! I started drinking when I was 14 and look at how I turned out.  
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8):
You can kick your kids off of your insurance whenever you want.

Ted Turner did that.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
As a rule, I think that the European model - where you can drink a couple of years before you can drive, is a good one. That eliminates binge drinking early, and teaches you what it's like to be drunk (and what a hangover is like) before you get near a wheel.

Yes, but the "European model' is not just about drinking age, but about drinking culture. Nor is it homogeneous. The Mediterranean and central European states have alcohol as an integral part of their family cuisine culture, not as some forbidden fruit, kept apart from daily life. The northern states and the UK, treat alcohol more like a 'dirty secret'. Something inherently 'naughty'. Think British binge drinking on Fri / Sat and frowning on your glass of wine on a Tuesday night, or Finnish booze cruises on the Baltic where you down as much affordable liquor as you can get your hands on and end up blind.

So I agree with you that model is better in many European countries (I think you lived in CH), but that model is about a culture's relationship with alcohol, of which the drinking age is only one part. The US drinking culture seems to share a lot in common with that of the UK and Northern Europe: More Viking than Mediterranean...

[Edited 2013-03-16 01:59:19]


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

This is the law in England/Wales and i think that's the best way to go about it....

Children under 5 must not be given alcohol unless under medical supervision or in an emergency (Children and Young Persons Act 1933, Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937).
Between the ages of 5 and 17, it is legally permissible for children to drink alcohol at home or at a friend's house with the permission of a parent or legal guardian.
The minimum age for the purchase of alcohol is 18. People aged 16 or 17 may consume wine, beer or cider on licensed premises when ordered with a meal


Unfortunately there is still a binge drinking problem here. I'm going to blame the dystopian weather.


User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

In the majority of US states, it is perfectly legal for kids to drink alcohol in their homes under their parents' supervision. So in those states, if families want to give their kids a 'supervised' intro to alcohol they can do that.

User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5518 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Other people offer advice on different bars to go to, as well. This is a perfect example of how "following the law," and "doing the right thing" are 2 very different matters.


Hold on there. While I agree that the drinking age may be too high and we could look at lowering it, I think you make a statement here that's flat out wrong.

The difference between "doing the right thing" and "following the law" is a moral argument. To provide an extreme example to support my point: harboring a slave in 1860 was illegal, but it was still the right thing to do.

There is no moral argument for allowing someone under 21 to drink, even in uniform. There is a logical argument, but not a moral one.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 6):
That already happens anyway.


So, what other rules and regulations should we scrap because "it's being done already"?

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 10):
The Mediterranean and central European states have alcohol as an integral part of their family cuisine culture, not as some forbidden fruit, kept apart from daily life.


I think I had my first taste of beer at about 8 or 9, wine soon followed. The stuff was always available, in small quantities at meal time. My parents, uncles and aunts provided more than adequate oversight for the younglings when alcohol was about.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 10):
The US drinking culture seems to share a lot in common with that of the UK and Northern Europe: More Viking than Mediterranean...


That's an astute observation. In the US, alcohol is to be used only in controlled environments (bar, restaurant, home, etc.) You can't have an open container in public. Except in certain areas, public drinking is illegal. In some states, only certain stores can sell it. In others, only beer can be sold at the grocery and "the hard stuff", wine included, has to be bought at the liquor store. In some counties, alcohol sales are not allowed. We have decided that you not only have to be an adult to purchase, sell or drink it, but you have to have been an adult for 3 years. Throw in there that some religions ban the stuff as the surest road to Hell, while others embrace it as part of ritual. It's really not that hard to understand why alcohol has become the forbidden fruit and is actively sought out by those that are forbidden its use.

Alcohol held no mystery to my siblings and me by the time we were 14.

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
I've always had a problem with the idea that people "magically" become mature at 21. If the state you live in thinks you're mature enough to operate a 4,000 pound killing machine (aka, "a car"), then you should be mature enough to drink.


I have a problem that people are magically adults at 18. There should be a sliding scale based on past performance.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
Only because our society treats them like children.


A big old    there.

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 12):
In the majority of US states, it is perfectly legal for kids to drink alcohol in their homes under their parents' supervision. So in those states, if families want to give their kids a 'supervised' intro to alcohol they can do that.

I believe that's incorrect. Can you provide an example of that?

[Edited 2013-03-16 05:17:17]

[Edited 2013-03-16 05:17:37]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
I believe that's incorrect. Can you provide an example of that?

This site has some really specific info:

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591


I remember being blown away when I attended some kind of training being given by a police officer (I forget which state I was in, probably Wisconsin) and he said it was perfectly legal to serve your kids alcohol at home.

[Edited 2013-03-16 06:36:37]

User currently offlineboeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8):

It's not off topic. Kids want their cake and eat it too. They can have when they are old enough to get out on their own. I'm sick of this whinney generation that wants to live at home, vote and drink but doesn't have half an ounce of responsibility in their bodies to show they've earn that right.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2999 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
So, what other rules and regulations should we scrap because "it's being done already"?

I'm not saying we should scrap anything---I'm all for keeping the drinking age where it is.

I'm just saying that changing it one way or another won't matter.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10533 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
You'll see how various people respond to this situation, but the man at 5:10 really stood out to me the most by offering to buy them a drink, pointing to their uniforms when the bartender asks for ID, getting more and more pissed with the bartender when he refuses to serve them, and eventually going as far as to take them to another bar where he knows they'll be served.

I don't believe the bartender would want to take a chance on losing his job if he DID serve someone under 21. Whether or not it's the "right thing to do" or not, you can hardly blame him, but the whole tone of this paragraph makes the bartender look like the bad guy in this. The REAL bad guys are the guy that wants to buy them a drink AND the bartender that he refers to that WILL serve them, no matter their age.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11737 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3447 times:

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 12):
In the majority of US states, it is perfectly legal for kids to drink alcohol in their homes under their parents' supervision.

I think they should look into Oregon and Washington. There have been many, many cases where minors were given alcohol in their homes by their parents and the parents were arrested. It has been said by many that it is legal, but I don't think it is in those two states.

I am surprised Utah allows under age drinking for medical and religous reasons. Although, the amount of wine used in Catholic services is so small, from what I hear, it makes no difference.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

18 is too low. Too many 18 year olds in high school. Yes there is already drinking in high school I understand that but this would be it 10000% times easier for high schoolers to get alcohol.
I'm pretty much ok with 19. 20 might be more reasonable. But 21 is a bit too high. I will say I defiently drank alcohol more when I was under 21 than now being over 21. It has more to do with the situation I was in, being younger in college or studying abroad.

Another thing to keep on mind is the adverse affects of alcohol on the human brain. The brain is certainly still developing at 18 years old.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

Nutz. If anything, it needs to be raised. The statistics that count (innocent dead at the hands of drunks) rise dramatically as the age of the drunk declines. There is no getting around it. Emotional pleadings and spin will not change the FACT that the younger the drunk, the more likely they are to kill or maim an innocent. At huge costs to society.

Now tell me again why we should encourage more drunks?


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5518 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 18):
There have been many, many cases where minors were given alcohol in their homes by their parents and the parents were arrested.


I suspect that even if it is legal to provide alcohol to a minor (within the confines of the home by the guardian) that a case could be made for endangering the welfare of a child. Of course, that would depend on the age of the child and the quantity of alcohol.

It would be interesting to see if any cases of that sort were brought forward.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Quoting boeing717200 (Reply 15):
It's not off topic. Kids want their cake and eat it too. They can have when they are old enough to get out on their own. I'm sick of this whinney generation that wants to live at home, vote and drink but doesn't have half an ounce of responsibility in their bodies to show they've earn that right.

Blah, blah, blah. Our generation was the best, these kids suck at life. You're a little young to be saying that, aren't you?

FWIW, not a single one of my friends, family, or acquaintances who are over 18 live rent-free at their parents' house.

Also, rights are guaranteed, not earned. Otherwise call it a privilege.

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):

Another thing to keep on mind is the adverse affects of alcohol on the human brain. The brain is certainly still developing at 18 years old.

Your brain is always developing.

Even still, there is little difference between killing cells and connections that were there already and preventing them from forming.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):

All good ideas, indeed.

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 2):
Looking back at that time in my life from age 41, I wonder what the hell was the hurry.

What's this mean?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
You can always crash out at a friend's house... you can't sleep at the bar.

Then call a cab.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
They still can. As you said, the only thing stopping them is the highway funds.
Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 6):
Not if you want to keep federal highway dollars.

I find this plenty frustrating. It's a sneaky way for the government to control state laws. They say, "Sure, no problem, you can choose your own age, but if it's not the one WE chose, you can't have your highway funds. Sorry!" Total BS.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 6):
That already happens anyway. Those who want to drink will do so.

Exactly. See my post below:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
A drinking age as high as 21 only creates problems. People under 21 are just going to obtain it and drink, regardless of what the law states.

----

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 11):
This is the law in England/Wales and i think that's the best way to go about it....

I think that's a great way to go about it!

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
There is no moral argument for allowing someone under 21 to drink, even in uniform. There is a logical argument, but not a moral one.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
I have a problem that people are magically adults at 18. There should be a sliding scale based on past performance.

Sure, that would be a valid approach.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
I don't believe the bartender would want to take a chance on losing his job if he DID serve someone under 21.

Right, that's why EVERY business is so paranoid about this matter.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
The REAL bad guys are the guy that wants to buy them a drink AND the bartender that he refers to that WILL serve them, no matter their age.

Wait... What?? You're saying that these people are evil for serving someone who obviously deserves it?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 18):
I think they should look into Oregon and Washington. There have been many, many cases where minors were given alcohol in their homes by their parents and the parents were arrested. It has been said by many that it is legal, but I don't think it is in those two states.

I would be curious to know this, as well.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 20):

I'm sorry, but I think you're missing the whole point of this thread.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3363 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 23):
Then call a cab.

Because that works out sooo well today.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 23):
I find this plenty frustrating. It's a sneaky way for the government to control state laws. They say, "Sure, no problem, you can choose your own age, but if it's not the one WE chose, you can't have your highway funds. Sorry!" Total BS.

The US Federal Government is under no legal obligation to provide highway funds to the states.

Although I would love to see a state call their bluff. The whole purpose of the Interstate Highway System is to facilitate interstate commerce, which is a concern of the Feds. No funds = no more Interstates = less commerce. Imagine if Texas or California stepped up to the plate...



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
25 Boeing717200 : We'll see how you feel about this when you have a couple of teenagers.
26 rfields5421 : Much of the US lowered the drinking age to 18 once. It was a disaster, and because of massive public pressure it was raised to 21. I see nothing in th
27 fr8mech : Actually, it's pretty much above board and I believe we should do more of it, even down to the individual level. If you take government (tax) money,
28 vikkyvik : Then have to get a ride back to the bar to pick up your car? Or have it towed overnight? Many would just choose to take the risk and drive home drunk
29 Maverick623 : The older generation always has, and always will, decry the younger generation as lazy, rude, inconsiderate, blah blah blah. If you want someone to b
30 Boeing717200 : My kids aren't a bunch of snarky 20 something's. They are well behaved teenagers who know their place. They also know when to keep their mounths shut
31 OzGlobal : An Australian lady I know visited Paris way back in the 70s after having spent her obligatory couple of months in London. She was speaking as a young
32 Ken777 : At 18 you're still a teenager. Your attitudes and level of responsibility will continue to mature at a rapid pace. Personally I believe that parents
33 seb146 : Remember when the big thing was states deciding their own speed limits on interstate freeways?
34 einsteinboricua : I think it should be lowered. I don't get why the US's limit is set at 21. In PR you can drink once you turn 18 (no exceptions for underage drinking h
35 Post contains images AlnessW : Interesting to know. Indeed, I am trying to make a logical and valid argument here, and I apologize if I am not. I though most people's reactions in
36 FlyDeltaJets : Whatever the age the law sets it's still up to parents to show their children responsibility when it comes to things in life including alcohol. When I
37 Post contains links melpax : Here in Oz, you can buy a drink & get your licence as soon as you turn 18, but drink-driving is heavily enforced here. Also, nearly all drivers un
38 Post contains images fr8mech : Correct, and we should attach strings to any federal money that goes to the states or to individuals. If we did more of that, maybe we could rearrang
39 GSPflyer : I finished high school 3 years ago and saw it first hand, every high schooler who wants alcohol can get it. When I was 18, my parents told me that if
40 mham001 : 26% of the ~10,000 drunk driving deaths were in the 16-20 year old age group. Think about that. The age group in which it is already illegal is alrea
41 mayor : Yep..........considerably more evil than the way you portray the bartender that won't serve them. For one thing, the third party that wants to buy th
42 Maverick623 : We're not talking about your kids, we're talking about teenagers in general, who you seem to have a pretty poor opinion of for some reason. Something
43 rfields5421 : The statistics from the 70s when the drinking age in most of the US show that a substantially higher number of people under 21 are involved in, serio
44 3DoorsDown : I would be OK with lowering it if: 1st drunk driving offense: Take away their license. This will do no good because drunks will still drive whether th
45 srbmod : When I was a teenager, my mom and stepdad would let me have the occasional sip of alcohol, usually something like a half glass of beer or wine or a we
46 mayor : They still do. Back when there was a 55 mph limit, nationwide, it was because the feds blackmailed the states with the usual "if you don't comply, yo
47 seb146 : Maybe if enough states got together and lowered the age while toughening the drunk driving laws, the feds would do the same thing. By toughening drun
48 trav110 : That series of punishments is just sick. I agree that for the first offence they should have their drivers license taken (and be jailed for any subse
49 PHLBOS : Agree w/you 100%, in principle; but, in many instances, a growing number of kids today aren't raised in in homes where their parent(s) are actually p
50 rfields5421 : All three of the only fatal accidents to occur in my very small hometown in Arkansas were college students under age 21 who were heading back from Lo
51 AlnessW : That system sounds much better than the system we have in the US. So maybe some of us (myself included) are forgetting that the solider thing was hyp
52 Post contains images fr8mech : Of course it happens. Back, pre-9/11 (before it became fashionable in the general population to fete uniformed personnel), at my wedding, my freshly
53 Post contains links PHLBOS : At least in the U.S.; history speaks otherwise. See below-post: Actually, after lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18 in 1973; Massachusetts saw a
54 Boeing717200 : There's a big difference between rascally and being self absorbed and lazy.[Edited 2013-03-18 19:20:13]
55 CalebWilliams : And who raised those teenagers? Don't worry, I'll offer you an out: are you referring to the children of others?
56 Smittyone : Nice. This thread validates yet again that the last thing the teenage thought process needs is the addition of mind-altering substances.
57 Boeing717200 : You're in no position to offer me an out. The comment wasn't directed at you, nor did it involve you. I do however thank you for proving my point. Yo
58 Post contains images Mudboy : I have come to realize that my fellow Americans will not be happy, until they are allowed to do anything, at any age with self regulation, being the o
59 mke717spotter : I agree the drinking age should be lowered, but hey, its all water under the bridge now sinced I just turned 21 today! Its time to party!
60 Smittyone : Have fun but make sure you have a designated thinker!
61 CalebWilliams : Nice deflection bro.
62 Post contains images finnishway : Sounds like a free country . Personally I don't think 16 years old should drive cars. They can ride mopeds, but cars should be only for adults. I did
63 CalebWilliams : From my experience, US hotels take cash if you put a deposit down. Cigarettes aren't really mind altering substances, the way alcohol is.
64 bhill : If you consider a person at 18 years old that can take a round to defend YOUR Liberties, and vote for their Commander in Chief, is still a child... Th
65 mham001 : Not sure what that's all about, I have never had a problem paying cash and a debit card works the same as a credit card.
66 Smittyone : For purely selfish reasons I wouldn't mind increasing the enlistment age, because I've spent a fair amount of time in my career and pulled out a fair
67 finnishway : I assume you are US citizen, so it is not same kind of problem for you. I have heard that Visa Electron works well. We don't get the debit only kind
68 PHLBOS : I take it either you've never been to the U.S. or at least not outside of a major metropolitan city in the States. Mopeds are not allowed on most maj
69 finnishway : I have. You don't need mopeds in major cities, but on a countryside they would be ideal solution and cheaper than cars. So what? Same thing in Finlan
70 CalebWilliams : They can be nice in the countryside, but American drivers can be very aggressive and sometimes that's not a viable solution to have such a small vehi
71 finnishway : Well, I think aggressive drivers can be found everywhere. At least in Miami drivers are much more friendly than drivers in Finland. They let pedestri
72 Post contains images Mudboy : It was a joke, I was being facetious, hence the Maybe I should have said 80%?
73 Post contains images AlnessW : So I am curious - how exactly is that OK if the situation in the video wasn't? Not quite as nice as that silly image someone posted earlier (but now
74 PHLBOS : That's right. Such measures fall under what's called Junior Operator's License or equivalent. When I got my license (at 16-1/2 circa 1982), the Massa
75 fr8mech : It wasn't. But, I was much younger and less wise. If the same situation were to pop up now, I would act differently. By the way, that was just a resp
76 WildcatYXU : I'm approximately of same age as you, PHLBOS, and if I could, I'd say the drinking age should be lowered. But I can't. Now, my own observation: From
77 Post contains links PHLBOS : A couple things: 1. In my earlier post, I specifically and deliberately stated the majority of posters not all posters advocating a lower drinking ag
78 WildcatYXU : No, quite the contrary. I work for a brewing company and I don't think my superiors would be happy if got engaged in such activity. On the other hand
79 CalebWilliams : I have a feeling that the brewing companies and law enforcement have the same objective: let everybody enjoy in moderation. It's excess that hurts al
80 Post contains images PHLBOS : Bingo! In essence, the primary reasons why many laws come about are due to the mistakes made by of the relative few rather than the majority of the p
81 Post contains images WildcatYXU : Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.
82 bhill : Well SMittyOne...Well, the aftermath of being sent home at 19 in a box is ALOT more permanent than alcohol treatment or counseling on the lives of oth
83 AlnessW : Thanks for the clarification.
84 Post contains links thunderboltdrgn : Not the case in Sweden. At the age of 15 you can get a license for moped class I and II and also the age of sexual consent. At the age of 16 you can
85 finnishway : That Swedish model is pretty much the same in other Nordic countries as other things too. This is a kind of "Nordic model".[Edited 2013-03-23 01:54:0
86 himmat01 : You guys are complaining about 21. In India, people below 25 cannot legally purchase alcohol or consume alcohol in restaurants/pubs.
87 falstaff : I teach high school and I would love to see more kids drink if it would get them to stop using drugs that make them useless addicts in a few weeks. I
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