DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17928 posts, RR: 57 Posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2082 times:
So hubby and I have decided that it's time to do something about the Battle of the Bulge. We're both exercise junkies, so that's not it. We eat lots of veggies and try to adhere to a low-fat diet, but when we try to control portion sizes, we'd just wind up hungry, so that didn't work.
This weekend, we started a completely new way of life. I'm not sure how it's going to work out, but a number of friends have tried it and have had spectacular success, many of whom are similar in lifestyle to us (active exercise junkies). Most have reported weight loss of up to 30 lbs without even trying and a few have stopped relying on blood pressure meds.
The premise is that you eat foods that would be similar to those encountered by our paleolithic (pre-agricultural) ancestors. Lean meats (not grain-fed, but free-range grass-fed), fish, fruits, and vegetables in unlimited quantities. No dairy, no grains or grain-like seeds (like quinoa), no refined sugar, no processed foods, no starches (like potatoes), no added salt.
Tonight, I made our first paleo meal. I marinated chicken in just a touch of Kinder's marinade (this isn't technically paleo, but I added a tablespoon to a half pound of boneless, skinless breast tenders and got most of a tablespoon sitting in the bottom of the plastic baggie when I took the chicken out) and grilled it. I also grilled some asparagus. I then sauteed some onions and peppers in some olive oil with garlic and then added some shrimp. My mother's salad dressing, which is composed of olive oil, vinegar, and dijon mustard, is Paleo-happy (olive oil is one of the only oils permitted) and so we had a salad with avocado, spinach, onions, tomato, and cucumber. I made some sweet potato fries in the oven, too (sweet potatoes and yams are permitted, but potatoes are not).
It was a bit odd what happened. I was happily eating away when suddenly a message came from my stomach: "STOP. You are full. Do not take one more bite." And, sure enough, I wasn't really inclined to take one more bite. I felt full, but not stuffed, not bloated, not like I had over-eaten. It's odd, because had we had our usual side-dish of pasta, I would have kept on eating it until I was stuffed.
I find the entire thing convincing after reading the books because they actually make physiologic sense. Unlike the Atkins diet, which relied a bit too much on what I call "smoke and mirrors," this method actually can explain the detailed physiology, which is something that I really want to see as a physician. In addition, in one of the books, the author freely admitted to having changed his postion on certain foods between editions as new data came in. This speaks to me of a scientific mind that is willing to be proven wrong, rather than a pseudo-religious faddist.
Who here has tried it and what has been your experience?
Kingsford From Ukraine, joined Nov 2003, 427 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2017 times:
Staying clear of pre-prepared meals, processed foods and starchy&sugary foods is very good in my opinion. By going 'paleo' you can better control the sugar and salt intake, as well as the origin of your food. However make sure you also do not eat red meat more than once (or twice) a week. This for arteries' sake and the environment. Also if you forego grains, I would probably have some Omega-3, like fish oil as a supplement for a good digestion if that becomes an issue, or chew your food longer than usual.
Grilling meat, poultry or fish is fine to avoid alternative use of oils/fats however bear in mind BBQing or too much grilling is not healthy. I tend to eat my red meat and fish raw (Beef carpaccio/Steak tatar, sashimi). Only cooking poultry and pork really.
Then you have to think of portion control and sports, stay clear of diet soda too
While I've not, I had a friend who went paleo and had pretty good results - the only downside she found was that she came away from it with lactose intolerance. Whereas she loved dairy before, she steers clear now and says in some respects, she wonders if it was worth it. Whether the lactose intolerance is a result of paleo or not I'm not sure, but she seems to think it is.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
RomeoBravo From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2013, 819 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1979 times:
Yes i have and i found several problems with it.
1) It's expensive
2) It's hard to get the calories up (i'm not actually overweight, just thought i'd try it anyway)
3) It's completely impractical. You can't eat out and have to prepare all your meals in advance.
4) After a while it's pretty bland.
I'm not actually convinced about the science behind it either. Species can evolve fairly quickly if environments change quickly and i think we are now somewhat adapted to eating cooked things and other carbs like rice and potato.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17928 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1833 times:
Quoting Kingsford (Reply 2): Staying clear of pre-prepared meals, processed foods and starchy&sugary foods is very good in my opinion. By going 'paleo' you can better control the sugar and salt intake, as well as the origin of your food. However make sure you also do not eat red meat more than once (or twice) a week. This for arteries' sake and the environment. Also if you forego grains, I would probably have some Omega-3, like fish oil as a supplement for a good digestion if that becomes an issue, or chew your food longer than usual.
What is important, according to the Paleo folks, isn't red meat, but how that meat was raised. If it was fed grains and confined to a feed lot, it is going to be very high in fat and that fat will be high in Omega-6 fatty acids and also in saturated fats. Free-range grass-fed beef is a) less likely to contain antibiotics (primary cause of antibiotic resistance in the world) and b) much lower in fat and the fat that it does have tends to be more enriched in Omega-3 fatty acids. It's also important to choose cuts that are low in fat, like flank steak, as opposed to fatty cuts like T-bone.
Grains are a horrible source of Omega-3 fatty acids. Those are found most in fish oils. Grains are rich in Omega-6 fatty acids, which are essential, but the balance of Omega-3 to Omega-6 should weigh heavily on the side of the Omega-3's. The modern diet is increasingly enriched in Omega-6, which is partially to blame for all the heart disease and diabetes. Omega-6 fatty acids are precursors of pro-inflammatory molecules called prostaglandins, while Omega-3 fatty acids inhibit the formation of prostaglandins.
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2682 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1778 times:
My fiancée started last month. She's a type 1 diabetic and it's been very good for keeping her BG levels consistent. She lost I think four pounds in the first two weeks too. It hasn't always been easy having to plan meals ahead, but she seems to feel better on Paleo.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
MrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 920 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1770 times:
Still a fad diet, no matter what anyone says. And like all fad diets, while there *might* be some real benefit to eating what is outlined in the diet, the real mechanism behind their success is that they get you to consciously think about what, when, and how much you're eating. Regardless of whether or not you're following a diet, this...
...is still your only true means of losing weight by diet (you've even said it yourself before). Yeah, it might be uncomfortable to feel hungry once in a while, but more often than not it's more of a psychological need to eat than physiological. Apart from the "low-hanging fruit" (avoiding processed foods or foods high in sodium, no more pop or fruit juice, essentially eliminating alcohol intake, switching most of my carb intake to whole grains and increasing my fibre intake), I've basically done nothing diet-wise apart from aggressively (and honestly) count my caloric intake.
One thing you might want to consider is adding more weight training to your workout routines, as it will not only give you a big, short-term boost in metabolism, but the resultant increase in muscle mass will burn more calories for any given workout whether it's mostly cardio or mostly weights. Think of it this way - running a 6-liter auto engine at full power will burn a lot more fuel than if you ran a 2-liter engine at full power. Also, try to find a way to work out more often; I went from three long workouts a week of moderate intensity to five short workouts a week of high intensity - even if it's only 15-20 minutes it will make a huge difference. I can't recommend Men's Health's "Big Book of 15-Minute Workouts" enough - no matter your level of knowledge, it is a fantastic resource.
Since I made all those changes about a year ago, I've gone from a muscular-but-soft 215 lb. to a much more trim 200; I went from 34" to 32" around my waist, and went from 40" to 43" around my chest (for reference, I'm 6'1" tall). Also, for the first time in nearly 10 years, my abs are starting to show themselves. Beyond the superficial benefits (and there are benefits - just ask MrsChips!), my stress levels are lower (despite working in an arguably more stressful environment compared to last year) and my energy level is leaps and bounds higher than before. As cliche as it sounds, I truly am in the best shape of my life right now.
Also, please don't eat quinoa. By eating this grain, you're pricing it out of the reach of the people who need to eat it to survive.
captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5108 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1763 times:
I have been on a Pseudo Paleo diet for about a year. I do include hard cheeses and yoghurt, corn and rice in limited quantity. The results are amazing... I feel great, I have endless energy, I have become much slimmer, my skin, my wife´s skin amazing. The list of changes we noted is pretty long. I think Paleo or Paleo like is good, because the premise is avoid processed foods, gluten and other foods not typical of the paleolithic age, since our genetic makeup hasn't varied much since that time. Nevertheless, avoidance of things like gluten is reasonable because gluten, or at least gliadin (one of the proteins) is known to damage the epithelial cells in the small intestines, you being celiac or not. It as a result can cause leaky gut. Go for it. Just try it for one month, just one month and report. Of course spend the type reading up on scientific research and not just listen to opinions. There are alot of articles on PubMed, Elsevier etc, if you have access to those.
DL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1710 times:
Yes, and with exercise lost about 45 pounds from July-November 2011 and have kept it off. Still have a little ways to go (lately a foot injury has kept me from exercising) but I plan to reach my goal weight by the end of the summer and will probably stay with paleo for the rest of my life.
A couple common misconceptions: calorie restriction has little to do with the results. I sometimes eat 3000+ calories a day, 40-50% of which are fat. It's actually one of the great benefits of the diet for people like me who like to eat - no calorie restriction is required as long as you stick strictly to paleo foods. I also went from high LDL and total cholesterol, and borderline high blood pressure, to normal cholesterol and blood pressure. My doctor couldn't be happier.
Going out to eat is not a problem if you're dedicated. You can get pretty paleo meals just about anywhere. Most places have grilled chicken salads, and you can get oil and vinegar dressing and hold the cheese and croutons (or just push them aside). Most types of cuisine will have a grilled chicken, fish, or steak option, and you can get steamed vegetables as a side dish. Even if you have no choice but fast food, you can get two grilled chicken sandwiches and toss the buns. It won't be ideal (the meats probably won't be grass-fed and pastured, and there may be some mildly objectionable ingredients in sauces) but as long as you stick with the basic concept you'll be fine. Lots of restaurants now are going to locally-sourced natural foods, and generally those types of places have lots of paleo-friendly options. There are even paleo restaurants now; I live near one in my city.
It can be expensive but there are ways to reduce cost. You can order grass-fed meat online in bulk if you have decent freezer storage space. Google to see if you have a local CSA in your area, which will deliver locally raised meat every month and/or more frequent deliveries of locally grown produce, and you can save money by buying straight from the farm. It's probably not workable on a 3 packs of ramen a day budget, but if you have discretionary income there are worse things to spend money on than high-quality, healthy natural foods.
NoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7891 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1683 times:
The only diet I believe in is my own:
- Little meat and dairy products
- Little to no processed foods
- Maintain a typical Omega-3 to Omega-6 profile of 1:4 (and often better)
- Lots of veggies, fruits and water (and ahem: coffee )
Shop at farmer's markets whenever possible instead of supermarkets.
The only nutritional supplement would be vit-D3 capsules from mid October to mid March (1,000 or 2,000 i.u. daily).
I do not count calories (BMI: 23), and now and then I do sin, eat something totally unhealthy like a good pizza and enjoy it tremendously. I find that important! There are plenty of religions, eating shouldn't be another one.
My doc is either happy or bored when I come for a check-up, because my blood pressure and values are good to very good, and I don't even exercise a lot. This is the way it should be, so why would I change my diet?
Then logically this likely wouldn't be true following evolutionary principles. The dogmatics in paleo will tell you that starches such as potato, sweet potato and pumpkin are from the devil however paleo is about self experiment. If you are trying to lose weight it is probably not the best idea to eat loads of carbs and I think this is how this notion creeped in.
Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 5): 3) It's completely impractical. You can't eat out and have to prepare all your meals in advance.
Never been to a restaurant that will serve you a salad with olive oil dressing? What about a burger joint where you can take the bun off? I cook minutes in advance. I decide I'm hungry, see what's in the fridge and get cooking.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): What is important, according to the Paleo folks, isn't red meat, but how that meat was raised.
This is hardly true. Only a crazy person will tell you to pay for grass fed beef while you can barely afford to keep the heat on. It is more, if you have the option and can afford it, do it. If someone has an infection and you only have/can afford a lower quality antibiotic will you tell them to not take it just because there exists something better?
You listed yourself some of the reasons why grassfed is better. Buy it if you can, get normal stuff if you can't.
What a delightfully paleo(ish) diet you have. What I've found is do what feels right for you. Paleo is all about getting in touch with how your body works, thus there is no 'this is the correct thing, this is bad'. Eat what you feel good eating. I love eating potatoes, gave them up for about a year but started reading a little bit more about what they do, and decided due to the fact I am not overweight I will eat them. I eat plenty of cheese and I drink loads of milk. At the moment I'm drinking about 1-2L of milk a day. Evolution is a work in progress and many people (most of northern European ancestry) have largely evolved to consume cows milk. If it makes you feel bloated and sick, don't drink it. If it doesn't and you feel good, go ahead.
What it really boils down to (to steal a quote) is eating real food.
Not sure if you've found it but MarksDailyApple and FreeTheAnimal are great blogs to get started.
RomeoBravo From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2013, 819 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1606 times:
Quoting QFA380 (Reply 13): Never been to a restaurant that will serve you a salad with olive oil dressing? What about a burger joint where you can take the bun off? I cook minutes in advance. I decide I'm hungry, see what's in the fridge and get cooking.
Yeah i'm out of the house 12 hours every day. I don't really want to spend what little time i do have cooking lunch for work the next days. I'd much prefer to go to the work canteen instead.
Low GI diet works fine for me.
Quoting QFA380 (Reply 13): Because plain pasta, bread, sugar and salt are so delightfully tasty?
They sure are. Thow in cheese, couscous, rice and potatoes too, oh and lentils, mmmmm....
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1651 posts, RR: 10 Reply 15, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
Ah, here is the paleo thread.
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6): Basically what you've done there is Doc is cut out refined sugars and reduced the fat intake, also the refine carbs intake. Pretty basic dieting principles which will certainly work if stuck to.
My diet consists of very little carbohydrates, but lots of fat and proteins. Bacon, pork, cheese, you name it. And I lost a big deal of weight when I only ate bacon with lentils (the classic diet from old Mesopotamia, so it's a meso diet?).
I also exercise a lot (1-3 hours of running each week, plus two hours of volleyball, plus 1 to 2 hours of climbing), and I very rarely feel "hitting the wall" while running, the depletion of the body's carbohydrate stores. A five hour hike without having had a breakfast, and no calorie intake during the hike? No problem. I also do not feel any sort of "hypoglycemia" during the day.
Edit: I also eat very little processed foodstuff, because it's also a lot cheaper and if you know how, cooking "raw materials" is not wasting any of your time. At work, I love to eat bananas, at home I eat apples, and well... lots of potatoes, carrots, onions, tomatoes, bell pepper, white mushrooms.
At home, I only drink artificially sweetened stuff. I take sugar for the coffee when I'm drinking out at a café, and I drink the normal coke in a restaurant. But at home, every sweet stuff I drink does not have any sugar in it.
[Edited 2013-03-20 19:40:48]
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
When I had some dietary issues a couple of years ago, I was amazed at how broad of a spectrum of minerals contained in mushrooms when I looked up the nutrition value of foods. Nowadays I'll slice up a good quarter-pound of them to go with a steak or chicken breast, or quarter a bunch of them to sauté for adding to a vegetable dish like creamed spinach. I'd much rather do that than take a vitamin/mineral pill.
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1464 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1450 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter): The premise is that you eat foods that would be similar to those encountered by our paleolithic (pre-agricultural) ancestors. Lean meats (not grain-fed, but free-range grass-fed), fish, fruits, and vegetables in unlimited quantities. No dairy, no grains or grain-like seeds (like quinoa), no refined sugar, no processed foods, no starches (like potatoes), no added salt.
Doc...granted I'm probably the last person on the planet who should be giving diet advice, but from a medical point of view, don't dairy and grains play a pretty important role in our overall health?
I know you're a physician, but let me offer this food-for-thought. Two years ago, I broke my ankle (a trimalleolar fracture). Among the list of advice I was given by my surgeon was to drink a lot of milk for calcium to strengthen the bone. That wasn't an issue, because I am a huge milk drinker (I can go through a gallon in a day or two). After about a year and a second surgery to remove some screws that were no longer needed, my ankle was "as good as it'll ever get."
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1651 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1421 times:
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 19): I know you're a physician, but let me offer this food-for-thought. Two years ago, I broke my ankle (a trimalleolar fracture). Among the list of advice I was given by my surgeon was to drink a lot of milk for calcium to strengthen the bone. That wasn't an issue, because I am a huge milk drinker (I can go through a gallon in a day or two). After about a year and a second surgery to remove some screws that were no longer needed, my ankle was "as good as it'll ever get."
Reminds me of my grandma. She often suffered from stomach ache, and she drank much and much of milk to fight the burning sensation. Now she's 82 and all the osteoporosis indicaters remain perfect.
Quoting Airstud (Reply 18): Is there scientific evidence that there weren't no fatsoes among the pre-aggies?
Pretty surely no fatsoes. Gathering or hunting food meant exercise. And lots of. And more importantly, you easily ate nothing for one day or two until your tribe killed the next mammoth, capibara, quokka or squirrel.
Just think of a A/C engineer that works for 2 hours on paperwork, 2 hours doing the real work (make the birds fly) and *then* has to spend half a day to gather himself and his family food. This meant hiking, hiking, hiking.
And well, the body does not need any carbohydrates. There's gluconeogenesis for that, and as we can't avoid all carbohydrates anyway, so we can just eat nothing that is *rich* in carbohydrates.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17928 posts, RR: 57 Reply 23, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1384 times:
Quoting MrChips (Reply 9): ...is still your only true means of losing weight by diet (you've even said it yourself before). Yeah, it might be uncomfortable to feel hungry once in a while, but more often than not it's more of a psychological need to eat than physiological.
It's both. Part of the problem is that fats and starches are not nearly as satiating as proteins. When you get more of your calories from protein, you tend to consume fewer calories overall.
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 19): Doc...granted I'm probably the last person on the planet who should be giving diet advice, but from a medical point of view, don't dairy and grains play a pretty important role in our overall health?
That's been the revelation: the answer is NO. Compare a grass-fed free-range cow to a grain-fed feed-lot cow. The grass-fed cow has very little fat around the body and very little fat between the muscles (marbling). The grain-fed cow is covered in a 6-8" layer of fat and and has a lot of fat between the muscles and inside the peritoneum. In other words, the grain-fed cow has the Metabolic Syndrome that afflicts humans. This is because mammals in general do not eat grains. Grains are not natural foods in that they do not exist in the wild. There is no such thing as wild corn or wild wheat; these organisms are the product of selective breeding by humans.
As for dairy, while humans have begun a basic step in evolution to be able to process dairy (lactase production sustained into adulthood), this step has only been taken in a portion of the human population and by no means comprises a complete biochemical solution. Humans are the only mammals to consume dairy outside of infancy and our biochemical pathways in our livers and muscles really aren't optimized for this. Dairy is loaded with fat and sugar, while the protein content is relatively low. Most of the "milk is good for you" line is dairy industry advertisement. Until contact with the West, pretty much the whole of China did not consume dairy (they tend to be lactose intolerant) and yet the formed a massive empire with a long history. So clearly, dairy is not essential to human existence.
Quoting QFA380 (Reply 13): This is hardly true. Only a crazy person will tell you to pay for grass fed beef while you can barely afford to keep the heat on.
It's a big problem with the diet. But then you don't buy beef. You buy chicken and fish.
I experienced a powerful revelation a few days ago. I'd only been on the diet for a day or two and after coming home hungry, I had a small handful of almonds and thus killed my appetite. So after making dinner, I just sat down with a bowl of salad and ate that.
Well, we were watching TV a bit later on and an Arby's commercial came on for their Reuben sandwich.
So we have rye bread (trafe), corned beef (trafe because it's processed), saurkraut (trafe because it's pickled), and cheese (trafe). In that instant, I realized that I could have eaten two of those delicious, salty, greasy, starchy sandwiches (not to mention a soda and a huge side of fries) in about ten bites total had someone put them down in front of me and I wasn't even hungry!.
And at that point the entire obesity problem in the Western world started to make sense to me.
As for me, I've been an adherent for four days now and my pants are already a bit looser and someone at work noticed that my face seemed thinner. It's probably mostly water retention from the decreased sodium load, but the way I feel has been much more impressive. I'm clear-headed, can exercise harder, I'm less moody, and I have a spring in my step that wasn't there last week. If four days can do this, I can't wait to see what four months does.
So I have a question here. If you are going Paleo, should you consider seasons and migration when consuming?
Much of your vegie's and fruit would only be available seasonably in the olden days, and must be supplemented /replaced by meat in the offseasons. Much of my thoughts around Paeo, is that at the core, you are eventually left with the Atkins diet Stage 3. In Atkins, Much of Stage 1 and Stage 2 tosses out a lot of consideration for Fruits and Vege's but at Stage 3 you are usually consuming what you really should to get buy with under Paleo.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6029 posts, RR: 3 Reply 25, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1373 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23): Grains are not natural foods in that they do not exist in the wild. There is no such thing as wild corn or wild wheat; these organisms are the product of selective breeding by humans.
That's not exactly true Doc, wild corn (teosinte) still exists. Growers are even experimenting with cross breeding domesticated corn with teosinte.
mirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7427 posts, RR: 63 Reply 27, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1336 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter): It was a bit odd what happened. I was happily eating away when suddenly a message came from my stomach: "STOP. You are full. Do not take one more bite." And, sure enough, I wasn't really inclined to take one more bite. I felt full, but not stuffed, not bloated, not like I had over-eaten. It's odd, because had we had our usual side-dish of pasta, I would have kept on eating it until I was stuffed.
I think that is more psychological than anything else. Ever since I changed my eating habits three years ago, I adopted the habit of eating small meals, laden with high proteins, every three hours. Like others here, 95% of the carbs I eat now are whole-grain. This was all up until Christmas when I got to talking with a friend of mine on the West Coast who recently talked to me about Paleo diet. As we went back and forth, one of the things I told her about was my eating every three hours. She suggested it was myth. That said, the very next day I went back to my normal high-protein way of eating and I noticed that I wasn't as hungry at the third hour but at the fourth and the fifth hour between meals. That just tells me that part of what you read Plays into this. Today, I had a pretty tough work out and I noticed that I needed to be eating every 3 to 5 hours. The point being, I've learned that As I change my diet and become even more healthy, I am not swearing by any of these diets to a TEE but I apply certain tenets and principles that makes sense. While working out and eating every three hours did nicely for my physique, it can be a real chore when you're trying to scarf down food between patients every three hours!
As a result, I have not read any books about the Paleo diet but as someone mentioned above I did peruse Mark's daily Apple blog as well as the Caveman Dr. blogs and podcasts. As a father of two young children, it's tough to be Paleo 100% of the time. I would say I'm about 80% Paleo.
I do agree that some of the misconceptions above are pretty silly. You can totally eat out. One of the things I love about Paleo is that I can look forward to going to expensive steakhouse and having a steak and grilled asparagus and enjoy myself.
Quoting Kingsford (Reply 2): However make sure you also do not eat red meat more than once (or twice) a week.
That's actually a pretty funny statement after having read that you eat raw meat.
Interestingly enough, as I was talking to my friend about this Paleo way of eating, we concluded that the norms for bloodwork may vary as a result of the diet. There's some suggestion in the literature that Paleo dieters might be looking For doctors who believe in that way of eating.
Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 5): 1) It's expensive
3) It's completely impractical. You can't eat out and have to prepare all your meals in advance.
4) After a while it's pretty bland.
Not true. You can totally eat out. You just have to make the right choices. And quite honestly, I think that's what is great about Paleo diets is that it does train you to think about what you're eating.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): I'll grant that it's expensive. But then again, so is having a heart attack. But it's actually quite practical...if you like to cook (and I do). It just involves some planning and organization
And you know Doc, that's an excellent point. Perhaps you saw that article in Time magazine a few weeks ago about why healthcare costs so much in America. You are 100% correct , a heart attack is much much more expensive.
"So I have a question here. If you are going Paleo, should you consider seasons and migration when consuming?"
Someone made this point and I think it's pretty interesting. That is where I think Paleo dieting falls on its face. Much of it had to do with availability of what our ancestors had and that has to do with the environment. The concept of the strict Paleo diet simply cannot exist since we can control so many things that our ancestors could not ever control for.
This is what I have adopted Paleo diet:
I have to say I do prefer it more than the eating every three hours that I was doing. My meals now can vary between every 3 to 5 hours.
I try to start my day off with three or four eggs and a banana. My meals consist of chicken turkey, meat or fish. If I have carbs, it's in the form of Starches or vegetables. Days that I train, I tend to train on an empty stomach, having only coffee or sometimes a banana and BlackBerries.
I may Have a slice of pizza once every week or two. If I have a traditional Italian dinner with pasta,'s happens maybe once every two months. And when I do have it, I enjoy every bit of it and appreciate it much more.
After my workouts, I will indulge in fast carbs such as rice or bread. That is the only time I allow myself those types of carbs.
I usually get my steaks from local butcher. However I recently went to a store nearby calledWwild by Nature. I was looking for grass fed beef. What I found was that the packaging of meats is suspect. While nothing actually said Grass fed, they did say or use comments such "fed a vegetarian diet." I don't like that phrasing.
We have used olive oil for years but I was happy to see coconut oil as a listed alternative. We've since bought that, and some mornings our breakfast would be eggs and plantings fried in coconut oil.
I have not gone 100%free as Paleo diet suggests. While I don't drink copious amounts of milk, I sometimes still have Greek yogurt every so often. I also will enjoy my ice cream every so often. I also enjoy dark chocolate covered almonds.
Coming from a Caribbean background, I have a great cook in the family who makes rice and beans. I try to reserve that for post workout meals. But as the human experience is what it is, if I feel like having rice and beans every so often, I'll have no more than a cup.
So you can see I have not adopted paleodieting to a degree. I suspect with you Doc, that you're probably going to stay with it for a while until you attain whatever your goals are, and then you might relax a little bit like I have.
As an aside, I've been reading about intermittent fasting recently as it tends to have evolutionary ties to the Paleo diet.
My brother-in-law and that other friend I mentioned earlier both sent articles to me about intermittent fasting. Looking from an evolutionary standpoint, it seems likely that our ancestors went through periods of eating high-protein and then fasting, While hunting their next meal. I've only started reading about it yesterday, and tried to do it today but I can't get past eating five hours later. If I can get a realistic schedule down to eat with intermittent fasting, that would be ideal for me so would like to eat in the morning and also when I get home at night and not have to worry about it throughout the day. Honestly, if someone is following the concept of the Paleolithic diet to a T, then it would have to include intermittent fasting.
By the way I never thought about this, but I studied anthropology in college and I know we made Neolithic beer In one of our courses. Does the Paleo diet allow for alcohol? Another thing I have yet to give up is good beer!
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It turns out that milk is a poor source of calcium and we have known this for some time. Milk is rich in lactalbumins that like to bind up calcium leading to a bioavailability of about 32%. Vegetables typically have higher bioavailabilities. On the Paleo diet, you consume a lot of vegetables, so typically this is not so much of an issue.
The one nutrient deficiency in the Paleo diet is Vitamin D. In the past, our ancestors who were hunter-gatherers got a lot of sunlight and this is how the human body produces vitamin D. About 30 minutes twice a week is enough.
However, I take a calcium and vitamin D supplement.
Quoting Airstud (Reply 28): I hope you realize this amounts to felonious anti-pancakery.
Actually, hubby made some excellent almond flour pancakes last Sunday morning. The big issue is that no maple syrup or butter is allowed and honey is only allowed in small quantities. I think I'll probably try to make some berry puree and simmer it with a bit of honey and see how that works for us.
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 27): I think that is more psychological than anything else.
Appetite is physiological, but also psychological. There are powerful gustatory mechanisms in place that regulate appetite. We are only just beginning to understand them.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 25): That's not exactly true Doc, wild corn (teosinte) still exists.
Teosinte is corn in the same sense that pomeranians are wolves.
According to whom? Unfortunately this is where a lot of misinformation occurs. Many adopters of the Paleo lifestyle go with grassfed butter or ghee in small amounts.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30): Appetite is physiological, but also psychological. There are powerful gustatory mechanisms in place that regulate appetite. We are only just beginning to understand them.
Of course. Therefore I wouldn't attribute the epiphany that you're stomach was "suddenly full" to physiology but to psychology.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 64 Reply 35, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1223 times:
After reading about all of the pills and potions, not to mention bread which doubles as a sponge, which people consume to re-enact a diet from the paleo age, I'll stick with my regular American diet. As usual, this morning's breakfast was a grilled ham and cheddar sandwich on artisanal sourdough with a large glass of milk.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17928 posts, RR: 57 Reply 36, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1217 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31): I'd say it's more like german shepards are wolves, domesticated corn came from teosinte.
I stick with the pomeranian analogy. Corn is very far-removed from teosinte. Teosinte has exposed kernels that easily break off and scatter themselves on the ground. If I recall correctly from my college Anthro Sci class, it's one of those grasses that uses wildfires as a way to repopulate. But I do know that its method of reproducing is for the kernels to break off (with some elastic force to help them scatter).
Corn has a grotesquely massive cob consisting of firmly-attached kernels under a thick husk. There is absolutely no way for corn to reproduce without human intervention. If humans vanished tomorrow, all the corn in the world would vanish inside of a month, much like pomeranians. German shepherds might manage to survive in the wild and interbreed with wolves and their ancestors would revert to a wolf-like canine. Neither corn nor pomeranians would have such an optimistic future without human intervention.
Quoting Airstud (Reply 32):
The pancake recipes I am aware of call for milk or eggs (or both) in the batter. What takes their place in your paleocakes?
Eggs are permitted. Most Paleo experts recommend omega-3 eggs.
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 33): According to whom? Unfortunately this is where a lot of misinformation occurs. Many adopters of the Paleo lifestyle go with grassfed butter or ghee in small amounts.
Depends on the author. Some do say that grassfed ghee is OK in small amounts. For now, I have found that eliminating dairy has solved a number of mild chronic digestive complaints that I've had for a long time, so I'm going to not add it back for several weeks and then see hwo I feel.
What pills and potions? A vitamin D supplement for those without sun exposure is the only thing I can think of.
A patient who I saw in my clinic last week just asked me this morning if I've been losing weight. Apparently after the first week there is some visible difference. I haven't noticed it so much, but I see myself in the mirror every day.
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 33): Its a paleo lifestyle, not a Paleo Diet. If you adhere to a strict diet, its success is less likely than if you adopt a lifestyle.
An important part of the lifestyle is lots of aerobic exercise. Given that I'm a competitive swimmer who swims 4500m daily 5-6 days per week, I think I already had that part down. The trouble was that I was gaining weight in spite of it as I passed age 30.
If the paleo diet is so healthful and beneficial, why does it need supplementation? One would think that during a major change in diet, basic nutrients should be monitored in blood tests as you're changing the nutritional density of what you eat.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17928 posts, RR: 57 Reply 39, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1159 times:
Quoting MrChips (Reply 38): Watch out for almond flour. Although it is much lower in carbs and higher in fat/protein than wheat flour, almond flour has something like twice the caloric content per unit of mass than wheat flour.
Yup. And if you eat just one pancake you quickly discover that you are no longer hungry.
mirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7427 posts, RR: 63 Reply 40, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1152 times:
Doc, how bad were you eating that you Gainng weight yet doing all that swimming. Wtf?.?........?.???!!!
Aero, I've been taking those supplements for a while longer before I started eating this way. I take the omega 3s especially if I don't see any fish that week. Otherwise I decided on those supps over a year ago.
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AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 64 Reply 42, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1141 times:
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 40): Otherwise I decided on those supps over a year ago.
Was that decision based upon blood tests that showed you were low on any specific nutrient? I only take three supplements, B12, D and an occasional iron pill, all based upon blood tests run due to medical conditions and medications I take. Otherwise, I've never believed in excessive amounts of supplements for adults who have access to fresh and unprocessed fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, fish and dairy.
From the reading I've done, it sounds like the paleo diet is unnecessarily restrictive to the point of to reach one goal it puts having a well-rounded diet at risk.
Reducing sodium intake will benefit nearly everyone. That may be accomplished without going paleo.
aaden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 832 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1076 times:
I have a BS in human sport and performance.
All legitimate study's concerning paleo type diets which were calorie controlled showed no difference in body composition, and or weight changes between what occurred in the subjects and what was expected based off of metabolic calculations.
You cannot fool the energy balance equation which is calories in v calories out.
Although high protien and fat diets do cause greater fatloss than let's say just reducing calories as protien and fat require the most energy to deal with per say.
Diets High in low fat diary tend to show the greatest results for changes in fat stores.
But if it's working and you enjoy it, it fits with your life style then do it.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 64 Reply 44, posted (8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1069 times:
Quoting aaden (Reply 43): All legitimate study's concerning paleo type diets which were calorie controlled showed no difference in body composition, and or weight changes between what occurred in the subjects and what was expected based off of metabolic calculations.
I believe that what attracts people to the paleoista lifestyle is that supposedly this diet makes people feel fuller and more satisfied, so they consume fewer calories.
IME, there are only a couple of things which can truly regulate weight long-term, 1) caloric intake, which you can self-regulate, and 2) metabolism rate, which you can regulate via exercise and hormonal balance, i.e. thyroid levels correct (and not just TSH, but T3 and T4 as well).
VonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4624 posts, RR: 38 Reply 46, posted (8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1059 times:
I don't think it's a "fad diet" so to speak. Through most of human existence (more than 90% of it) we weren't eating grains. We ate what we could forrage or hunt. So meat, nuts, berries and some fruit and vegetables. That's what humans are naturally evolved to eat.
If you look at the acheological records there's actually a pretty big drop in human health after farming became widespread. People were shorter, less robust, had more disease than their hunter-gatherer ancestors. In fact barring any accidents like fall or something, the hunter gatherer humans would actually live longer. They've found remains of men that were in their 60's and much healthier than the average 60 year old even today.
Eat lots of protein, natural fats and fruit and veggies. Lift things and move around. Get lots of sleep.
I'm slowly putting myself on more of a hunter-gatherer diet. As much as I can afford to anyway. Mostly after reading this site
I've cut out vegetable oils and cook with natural butter and I've reduced my grain intake by about 2/3rd's so far. I get my fibre and carbs from veggies, berries and fruit.
I've been working out regularly but not a ton, and I've lost some weight in lbs but also gained lean muscle. But the biggest difference is in how I feel . I never feel bloated or lathargic, I've even noticed I'm using my asthma inhaler about half as much as I was before.
Don't listen to your goverment food guide. It's full of shit and reeks of farm lobby influence.
mirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7427 posts, RR: 63 Reply 48, posted (8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1016 times:
Aero, I gauge myself not on blood tests always but also based on how I'm eating. If I haven't had fish In a while ill hit the omega3s, etc. I do prefer though to get all thr nutrients in my diet but sometimes I don't hit my mark and supplement accordingly.
Just ran across this. While I am living about 80% cardio, I wouldn't go as far as the above. No big deal having a slice of coal fired pizza topped with grilled chicken and arugula every once in a while. I feel bad for my ancestors. They'd kill for a good slice!
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