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F1 2013: Malaysian Grand Prix  
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4490 times:

No rest for the F1 circus! After the conclusion of the Australian GP last weekend, teams are already in Sepang for the 15th edition of the Malaysian GP.

Sepang International Circuit

http://drivesafely.allianz.com/static/sites/default/images/2013/Frontend_Circuit_Graphics/02_Malaysia_E_72DPI.png_843180934.png


Lap data

Lap length: 5.543 km
Race laps: 56
Race distance: 310.408 km
Pole position: Right-hand side of the track
Lap record: 1’34.223 (211.783 kph) by Juan Pablo Montoya, 2004
Fastest lap: 1’32.582 (215.536 kph) by Fernando Alonso, 2005
Maximum speed: 303 kph
DRS zone/s (race): Pit straight and final straight
Distance from grid to turn one: 660m


Car performance

Full throttle: 65%
Longest flat-out section: 1029 m
Downforce level: High
Gear changes per lap: 52
Fuel use per lap: 2.4 kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel: 0.096s


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
92 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

I'd like to see Kimi win this one too!

I like the sanity that's been so evident in the F1 posts now that MadameC has stopped posting.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 1):

I'd like to see Kimi win this one too!

Aghh! I wanna see a Ferrari win! just like last year´s season start where they had 6 different winners on the first races, anyhow I am quite happy with the progress of the Ferrari and I hope we get to see another exciting race, Sepang is usually a tough race (if its not unbearably hot and humid, it is pouring down) so let´s see what the weather brings for the race.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 2):
so let´s see what the weather brings for the race

There is always a high possibility of rain in Malaysia, which would be interesting for the race!

Also, the temperature will be a lot warmer than in Australia, so it might shuffle things around regarding tyre performance. Some teams who struggled with their tyres in Australia because of a "cold" track temp might be better in Sepang. Red Bull comes to mind.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
There is always a high possibility of rain in Malaysia, which would be interesting for the race!

If the whole race is in the rain, I'd imagine we would see a finish much like the wet sessions in Australia. Wouldn't mind seeing Nico win again.

-DiamondFlyer

[Edited 2013-03-21 14:31:57]

User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4390 times:

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 2):
just like last year´s season start where they had 6 different winners on the first races

My gut feeling is that we won't see that much variety at the front this year. The regulations were largely unchanged, meaning that the top teams with the larger budgets will be able to further widen the gap to the smaller outfits. Even though tyre wear remains an issue that some teams struggle with, most likely we will see Red Bull, Ferrari, and Lotus leading most races with Mercedes and McLaren picking up the odd victory.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
There is always a high possibility of rain in Malaysia, which would be interesting for the race!

For this very reason I'm adding three hours to the DVR recording schedule...I've watched quite a few Malaysian GPs that didn't quite stick to the scheduled time!


User currently onlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17155 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4375 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 5):
My gut feeling is that we won't see that much variety at the front this year. The regulations were largely unchanged, meaning that the top teams with the larger budgets will be able to further widen the gap to the smaller outfits. Even though tyre wear remains an issue that some teams struggle with, most likely we will see Red Bull, Ferrari, and Lotus leading most races with Mercedes and McLaren picking up the odd victory.

And it will most likely be between Alonso, Kimi and Vettel.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):

if that's the case go Kimi. #anyonebutvettel


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

Free practice 1:

1 M Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1'36.935
2 KM Räikkönen (FIN) Lotus 1'37.003
3 S Vettel (GER) Red Bull 1'37.104
4 F Alonso (ESP) Ferrari 1'37.319
5 N Rosberg (GER) Mercedes 1'37.588
6 A Sutil (GER) Force India 1'37.769
7 F Massa (BRA) Ferrari 1'37.771
8 P di Resta (GBR) Force India 1'37.773
9 LC Hamilton (GBR) Mercedes 1'37.840
10 R Grosjean (FRA) Lotus 1'37.915
11 J Button (GBR) McLaren 1'38.173
12 P Maldonado (VEN) Williams 1'38.673
13 S Perez (MEX) McLaren 1'38.830
14 N Hülkenberg (GER) Sauber 1'39.054
15 E Gutiérrez (MEX) Sauber 1'39.204
16 V Bottas (FIN) Williams 1'39.208
17 JE Vergne (FRA) Toro Rosso 1'39.284
18 D Ricciardo (AUS) Toro Rosso 1'39.567
19 G van der Garde (NED) Caterham 1'40.728
20 J Bianchi (FRA) Marussia 1'40.996
21 C Pic (FRA) Caterham 1'41.163
22 M Chilton (GBR) Marussia 1'41.513


Free practice 2:

1 KM Räikkönen (FIN) Lotus 1'36.569
2 S Vettel (GER) Red Bull 1'36.588
3 F Massa (BRA) Ferrari 1'36.661
4 F Alonso (ESP) Ferrari 1'36.985
5 M Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1'37.026
6 R Grosjean (FRA) Lotus 1'37.206
7 N Rosberg (GER) Mercedes 1'37.448
8 P di Resta (GBR) Force India 1'37.571
9 LC Hamilton (GBR) Mercedes 1'37.574
10 A Sutil (GER) Force India 1'37.788
11 S Perez (MEX) McLaren 1'37.838
12 J Button (GBR) McLaren 1'37.865
13 N Hülkenberg (GER) Sauber 1'38.068
14 E Gutiérrez (MEX) Sauber 1'38.645
15 JE Vergne (FRA) Toro Rosso 1'38.738
16 P Maldonado (VEN) Williams 1'38.801
17 D Ricciardo (AUS) Toro Rosso 1'38.904
18 J Bianchi (FRA) Marussia 1'39.508
19 V Bottas (FIN) Williams 1'39.660
20 C Pic (FRA) Caterham 1'40.757
21 G van der Garde (NED) Caterham 1'40.768
22 M Chilton (GBR) Marussia 1'41.438

Kimi was the fastest on Friday
http://en.espnf1.com/PICTURES/CMS/18000/18011.jpg



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4297 times:
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Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 8):
Kimi was the fastest on Friday

Still early days, but the Lotus is looking extremely quick. Raikkonen could be in for an extremely competitive season.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
And it will most likely be between Alonso, Kimi and Vettel.

You are probably right! Those are my three top drivers and, to be honest, I'd be happy to see any of them win the title this year.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 9):
Still early days, but the Lotus is looking extremely quick. Raikkonen could be in for an extremely competitive season.

And it would be a great season if we could listen to his radio for the entire race!


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4199 times:
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Vettel tops the chart for both P3 and Qualifying. It was a rather interesting qualifying session with the rain coming towards the end of Q2 mixing things up. Strange to see that the Red Bulls were off the pace until the rain came - even Vettel admitted that had it not been wet he wouldn't have been able to get pole.

The ever present storm is forecast for tomorrow, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Practice 3 results:

Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m36.435 20
2. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m36.568s + 0.133s 17
3. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m36.588s + 0.153s 19
4. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m36.613s + 0.178s 20
5. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m36.806s + 0.371s 19
6. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m36.807s + 0.372s 18
7. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m36.822s + 0.387s 16
8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m36.946s + 0.511s 14
9. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m36.949s + 0.514s 24
10. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m37.302s + 0.867s 14
11. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1m37.359s + 0.924s 11
12. Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 1m37.538s + 1.103s 12
13. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 1m37.685s + 1.250s 23
14. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m37.690s + 1.255s 14
15. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1m37.936s + 1.501s 16
16. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1m38.294s + 1.859s 17
17. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.376s + 1.941s 16
18. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.425s + 1.990s 15
19. Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 1m38.995s + 2.560s 18
20. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 1m39.717s + 3.282s 21
21. Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 1m40.209s + 3.774s 18
22. Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 1m40.495s + 4.060s 18

Qualifying results:

Pos Driver Team Time Gap
1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m49.674s
2. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m50.587s + 0.913s
3. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m50.727s + 1.053s
4. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m51.699s + 2.025s
5. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m52.244s + 2.570s
6. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m52.519s + 2.845s
7. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m52.970s + 3.296s
8. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m53.175s + 3.501s
9. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m53.439s + 3.765s
10. Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 1m54.136s + 4.462s
Q2 cut-off time: 1m37.342s Gap **
11. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m37.636s + 1.446s
12. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 1m38.125s + 1.935s
13. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.822s + 2.632s
14. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1m39.221s + 3.031s
15. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m44.509s + 8.319s
16. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault no time
Q1 cut-off time: 1m37.931s Gap *
17. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m38.157s + 1.348s
18. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1m38.207s + 1.398s
19. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 1m38.434s + 1.625s
20. Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 1m39.314s + 2.505s
21. Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 1m39.672s + 2.863s
22. Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 1m39.932s + 3.123s



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently onlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17155 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 11):

Wow, has Massa got his act together, or what?

Hopefully he will be able to carry on like this for the rest of the season.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4135 times:
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Disclaimer.. This is not an Anti Ferrari rant!!
I would say this about any team that made this call.

They should have their F1 license suspended.. or cancelled!!

Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.
That sort of failure kills people and it is only good luck that the situation ended as benignly as it did

End rant!

LH .. needs to take a good look at his pay cheque and commit to memory who pays him.. pulling into the McLaren pit is a fail that many will not let him forget soon

[Edited 2013-03-24 02:16:40]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.

Was still amusing to watch though  

So whose decision was it? Commentary from the pits on NBCsports suggested Ferrari were ready and waiting in pit lane and it may have been Alonso's decision to stay out another lap so he could swap the nose and put on slicks.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4112 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):

I wouldn't go as far as to remove their licence, maybe an investigation, I do agree it was a stupid move, he should have gone in to replace the nose, specially knowing that the aerodynamic loads would make mince meat of it.

Funny watching HAM going into the Macca boxes LOL! hey guys howareya....

Stupid move by Vettel on Webber, some strong words at the end of the race!

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

Akward podium "celebration" you could cut the tension with a knife!

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4081 times:
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Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Funny watching HAM going into the Macca boxes LOL! hey guys howareya....

Yes, that was hilarious! Best moment of the race for me.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Stupid move by Vettel on Webber, some strong words at the end of the race!

Strongly disagree that it was stupid.

Team orders suck, period. I don't care which driver it's for or against, there shouldn't be any team orders unless and until one driver is mathematically out of the running for the championship. All 22 drivers have a mathematical chance of winning so there shouldn't be any team orders at all. I think the right driver won, but Rosberg should've been third, because Rosberg was clearly faster towards the end. The fact that Hamilton was told to slow down to save fuel is irrelevant, as is the fact that Red Bull told Webber to turn the engine down.

What Vettel showed when passing Webber was a sublime display of his driving talent, putting to bed any doubts that he has an inability to overtake; and that he is still as determined as ever to win his fourth title. Vettel's pass on Webber was all fair and above board; there was no illegal blocking nor was there any contact between the two cars. It was good, hard and fair racing. Something that Rosberg was unfortunately not allowed to do, but should have been. Rosberg was robbed of his podium finish by the team that he has served well since 2010. That is the real tragedy.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Strongly disagree that it was stupid.

  

Vettel won the title last year by three points, yet for some reason people expect him to voluntarily give up seven this race. Yes, it was risky - but that's racing - and it takes two to tango.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Stupid move by Vettel on Webber, some strong words at the end of the race!

If you can't keep up, get out of the way.

The last thing we need is more of this Hamilton / Rosberg crap.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Quoting flood (Reply 18):

His move on Webber was totally uncalled for next to the pit wall, very dangerous and risky it's a very dirty area and if any of the cars loose grip there the result could have been nasty.

If you cant keep up get out of the way mentality could apply if Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, then wait for a more suitable area of the circuit to make a clean move,, not risking it there with the danger of making contact and ruining both yours and Webbers race.

Even the team told him it was ridiculous, he was given an order and totally ignored it.

Just my 2 cents.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4023 times:
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Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 19):
His move on Webber was totally uncalled for next to the pit wall, very dangerous and risky it's a very dirty area and if any of the cars loose grip there the result could have been nasty.

If you cant keep up get out of the way mentality could apply if Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, then wait for a more suitable area of the circuit to make a clean move,, not risking it there with the danger of making contact and ruining both yours and Webbers race.

He had no choice but to be there. Webber moved to the centre of the track to defend his position, which he was very much entitled to do. Vettel could've moved to the outside, which meant forfeiting turn 1 to Webber and possibly getting him at turn 2, or else going to the inside and make the move into turn 1 stick.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4020 times:
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CXB77L-
Fom the radio conversations and the body language after the race I don't think the team agrees with you.
Can't recall ever seeing or hearing a team management less happy after a 1-2 result in a GP

Pretty sure we will hear soon from the Mad Dr M how MW was totally at fault for endangering the ordained supremacy of the chosen one!!

[Edited 2013-03-24 05:19:40]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4012 times:
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So the petulant little prat... admits his mistake... as if it was a mistake!!!

Quote:
"We should have stayed in the positions we were in. I didn't ignore it [the order] on purpose but I messed up in that situation.

Getting a little tired of his attitude, time he grew up!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4011 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 21):
Fom the radio conversations and the body language after the race I don't think the team agrees with you.
Can't recall ever seeing or hearing a team management less happy after a 1-2 result in a GP

They weren't happy because Vettel disobeyed a team order to hold station which I don't think should have been given in the first place.

Vettel was no less deserving of his victory than Rosberg was deserving of third place. Both drivers were quicker than their teammates, and both were told not to attack. I don't think that's how racing should be conducted.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

Finally drivers ignoring stupid team orders.

That untamable desire to win is what divides the greats like Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso from the mediocre drivers like Rosberg and Webber.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4058 times:
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CX.. the big thing for teams are their manufacturers points, the drivers and much of the public think the important thing is the WDC, sorry it is not the WDC that pays the bills.
The driver is paid by the team to maximise the points gained by the team, when a driver jeopardises that then he has screwed up.
You may not agree but that is how it is!

SV came very close to costing RBR 43 points and that is unaccepptable.. that is what the team is unhappy about!.

He had instructions to maintain that points situations and he decided he was above that!

And this BS from the wunderkinder...

Quote:
"I'm not entirely happy -- I think I did a big mistake," Vettel said. "We should have stayed in the positions that we were in. I didn't ignore it on purpose but I messed up in that situation and obviously took the lead from Mark.

Sorry Seb you tool... you cannot get into the vicious knife fight you started by mistake.

[Edited 2013-03-24 06:14:36]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4048 times:
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Quoting racko (Reply 24):
Finally drivers ignoring stupid team orders.

That untamable desire to win is what divides the greats like Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Alonso from the mediocre drivers like Rosberg and Webber.

Agree to a point. I wouldn't call Rosberg "mediocre", I believe he is a future world champion who had been held back unfairly by his team.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 25):
The driver is paid by the team to maximise the points gained by the team, when a driver jeopardises that then he has screwed up.
You may not agree but that is how it is!

SV came very close to costing RBR 43 points and that is unaccepptable.. that is what the team is unhappy about!.

I agree that the team's aim is to maximise its points, but Vettel didn't cost Red Bull 43 points.

Button and Hamilton showed several times when they were at McLaren that teammates can fight each other without costing the team anything. I don't see why it has to be different at any other team.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4090 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 25):
He had instructions to maintain that points situations and he decided he was above that!

Boohoo he decided not to take part in match fixing. He should be applauded, Team orders are not what racing is about.. the fastest guy should win. Not some pre determined team positioning. It should be considered cheating and removed from the sport.

I dont even understand how it is allowed, What if people have bet millions on vettel to be fastest and win the race. They would all lose because its Red Bulls Managers decision that the slower guy should win to play it safe for the team? Its a disgrace.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4083 times:
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Quoting Giancavia (Reply 27):

Boohoo he decided not to take part in match fixing.

Whatever you think about race fixing, and I am against betting on motor racing, there are situations where teams need to make a call, MW listened to them SV didn't!!

Just showed(again) a side of his character that is not that pleasant.. bit like a recently retired countryman!!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4079 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
there are situations where teams need to make a call

Yes, there are, when one driver is mathematically out of the running for the title while the other is a title contender. Not in Round 2 of the championship when it's still wide open.

Had this been Round 19 and Vettel can't win the title mathematically but Webber still can, I'd support the call for Vettel to hold station. I think Vettel wouldn't attack Webber under such circumstances anyway.

[Edited 2013-03-24 06:26:26]


Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4076 times:
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CX..

The team is the thing, they made a call,the impetuous child that thinks of no one else but himself ignored it!!

Quite possibly costing the team 43 points.. he didn't.. more to good luck than anything else.

Time he grew up!

Despite his protestations, he made no mistake, he deliberately chose to risk the teams position out of pure hubris.

Red Bull won the 21012 Constructors championship by 60 points, indications so far are that this season may be much closer... the 43 points that SV nearly threw down the drain are not important??

Or are you such a SV fanboi that you agree with his plaintive radio call about MW holding him up when he could not get within 3.7sec of his team mate.. had to laugh at that!!

[Edited 2013-03-24 06:40:34]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 31, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4075 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
Quite possibly costing th team 43 points.. he didn't.. more to good luck than anything else.

More like good driving. Notwithstanding the breach of team orders, Vettel's overtaking move on Webber was superb driving on his part.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 32, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4070 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 31):
Vettel's overtaking move on Webber was superb driving on his part.

Actually was good driving on both drivers part.. lesser drivers would have likely ended in someone getting hurt!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 33, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
Just showed(again) a side of his character that is not that pleasant.. bit like a recently retired countryman!!

You mean a certain record breaking 7 time world champion?

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 26):
I wouldn't call Rosberg "mediocre", I believe he is a future world champion who had been held back unfairly by his team.

Who lets himself be held back by the team. Do you think Schumacher would have let it go? Senna? Prost? Alonso?

They wouldn't have. They were were/are ruthless. They're in it to win it, all else be damned.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
Whatever you think about race fixing, and I am against betting on motor racing, there are situations where teams need to make a call, MW listened to them SV didn't!!

I could've sworn you said something about jeopardizing team points - and in that regard both drivers stubbornly played their part, as Webber was hardly listening to anyone when he took on the fight through the corners. Both will get an earful. Vettel obviously more so, but neither were team angels.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
Red Bull won the 21012 Constructors championship by 60 points, indications so far are that this season may be much closer... the 43 points that SV nearly threw down the drain are not important??

And again, Vettel only won the 2012 championship by 3 points and now his team is on the radio telling him to voluntarily give up 7. Not happening. I'm no fan of team orders, but from a team perspective and given the two titles at stake - it would have made far more sense for them to tell Webber to move over.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4001 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
more to good luck than anything else

I'm sure Webber could have made it harder as well.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 31):
Vettel's overtaking move on Webber was superb driving on his part

And in no small part to Webber's cooperation.

Quoting racko (Reply 33):
Do you think Schumacher would have let it go?

He did when told to.

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that this is a TEAM sport. The teams pay the drivers' wages and as such the drivers should follow team orders. Vettel clearly didn't and will, at some point, get some payback.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3972 times:
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Not sure why Webber would have thought vettel would have tried to pass him so probably didn't try defending as hard and took as few risks ss he could untill it was too late. Perhaps it was Webbers fault for thinking vettel had grown up.

As for Hamilton and Rosberg it was my understanding that they were both to save fuel and if Rosenberg went any faster I.e. he overtook Hamilton, that he would be in danger of running out of fuel as well. Fortunately Rosberg is able to understand that there are other issues outside of himself that can be more important.

The race was good today but will be remembered for the wrong reasons.

Fred


User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3708 posts, RR: 34
Reply 37, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3976 times:
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Quoting flood (Reply 34):
Vettel only won the 2012 championship by 3 points and now his team is on the radio telling him to voluntarily give up 7. Not happening. I'm no fan of team orders, but from a team perspective and given the two titles at stake - it would have made far more sense for them to tell Webber to move over.

The teams are only interested in the Constructors Championship, winning the Drivers Championship is of secondary importance to the teams.

Didier Pironi not following team orders was the root cause of Gilles Villeneuve's death.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 38, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

The worst thing about this race for me was the relatively empty stands, sad when there are tracks in Europe and other motorsport mad locations where the stands would be at capacity.

User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 39, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

I knew this race was going to "agitate" the fans!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.

Reading the reports I'm still not clear if the decision to stay out was Alonso's or Ferrari's. Either way, I'd label it as a stupid mistake instead of a criminal offense. It was a tactical call - why bring him in to change the nose when he'd have to come in 3 laps later anyway to get rid of the intermediates. I think most teams would have made the same call.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 15):
Funny watching HAM going into the Macca boxes LOL! hey guys howareya....

That was certainly a hilarious moment during the race and a reminder that you can't give up old habits so easily!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Team orders suck, period.
Quoting racko (Reply 24):
Finally drivers ignoring stupid team orders.

As a fan I agree with these two comments. I do understand the "one-team" concept and that the team would rather have two cars cross the finish line rather than have bits of shredded carbon fibre littered on the track. However, you follow the race because you want to watch a race! Perhaps the teams should only insist on team orders during the last 5 laps of the race during the last quarter of the season but this early on let them play, they are professional drivers not rookies!

All in all a VERY exciting race!


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

I did not have time to watch the race, but I have it recorded so I'll give my opinion later this week. It looks like something interesting has happened 


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 41, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 34):

And again, Vettel only won the 2012 championship by 3 points and now his team is on the radio telling him to voluntarily give up 7. Not happening. I'm no fan of team orders, but from a team perspective and given the two titles at stake - it would have made far more sense for them to tell Webber to move over.

Did you stop to consider that maybe they want Webber to win the championship?

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
as is the fact that Red Bull told Webber to turn the engine down.

They also tole Vettel to turn down his engine. Vettel needs to be sat out for a race or two for a lack of sportsmanship.


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 42, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):
Did you stop to consider that maybe they want Webber to win the championship?

Vettel sure as hell doesn't want Webber to win the championship.

By the way, here is a funny quote from crybaby Webber:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93001

"Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place."


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13206 posts, RR: 16
Reply 43, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

I have been watching F-1 racing on TV for 45 years. I despise 'team orders' in F-1 unless very late in the season and to assure the 'better' driver to win the driver's championship. In American racing, especially IndyCar and NASCAR, we rarely see 'team orders' except to protect a position of a driver in or close to the drivers' Championship lead. Yes, I understand that in some situations, the passing driver could put both at risk of crashing and losing points. Ask the fans in the stands and at home and they want passing and borderline dangerous driving - no 'team orders' taking away the real racing that should be.

User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 25):
CX.. the big thing for teams are their manufacturers points, the drivers and much of the public think the important thing is the WDC, sorry it is not the WDC that pays the bills.
The driver is paid by the team to maximise the points gained by the team, when a driver jeopardises that then he has screwed up.

I think this is the point that is lost on several of the posters here. The teams are thinking constructors, drivers not. But at the end of the day it's the team that pays the bills and no one else. You may not like it but that's just how it is, and F-1 has always been that way. If SV or anyone else out there does not want to follow orders from the team then I'm sure they would be welcomed at some of the less competitive teams on the circuit to drive however they wish.

No different than given "orders" from your own boss, where in most cases insubordination gets you canned. Not in F-1, and certainly not in Vettel's case.

In my memory, 1978 comes to mind. Colin Chapman at JPS Lotus was a team first, with a clear #1 and #2 drivers kind of guy. Mario Andretti was his "guy" and his number one when Ronnie Peterson was clearly the better driver that year. In a more competitive setting, Andretti does not win but one or two races and certainly not a championship. I remember sitting at Hockenheim that year and seeing RP just tear out into the lead by the end of the first lap. But by lap two MA was in the lead with RP second. "Team Orders" I suppose. Somewhere Chapman is having convulsions in his grave over yesterday's race...lol


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 45, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 39):
Reading the reports I'm still not clear if the decision to stay out was Alonso's or Ferrari's.

I've read articles which say both tbh - but the latest is that Ferrari is "taking the blame" for it. So no surprise there, Alonso once again comes out smelling of roses.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 39):
Either way, I'd label it as a stupid mistake instead of a criminal offense. It was a tactical call - why bring him in to change the nose when he'd have to come in 3 laps later anyway to get rid of the intermediates.

Because safety is also a factor - what if he had collected Webber when his car ingested the front wing? What if he had collected two or three cars? What if someone had got hurt?

This brings to mind that race when Ferrari were allowed to race a car which had severe exhaust damage, with parts flapping around - and a major part was eventually flung off into the stands...


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 46, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3696 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
And in no small part to Webber's cooperation.

What co-operation? Webber defended his position to the best of his ability. He certainly didn't wave Vettel by.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 36):
Not sure why Webber would have thought vettel would have tried to pass him so probably didn't try defending as hard

Webber did try to defend his position. He didn't make it easy for Vettel to get by. I don't know where you got this idea that Vettel caught Webber unawares. Even if Vettel had been given the order to hold station, which I don't dispute, Webber had to have known simply by looking at his mirrors that Vettel was going to attack, in spite of team orders.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):
Vettel needs to be sat out for a race or two for a lack of sportsmanship.

What lack of sportsmanship? Please point out the rule in the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations which state that a driver must follow the instructions of the team.

Red Bull would be doing themselves a disservice if they were to let Vettel sit out a race. Vettel is the best driver at Red Bull by far, so not having him on the track is shooting their own chances of a constructors' championship in the foot. The best thing for the team now is to move on.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 44):
The teams are thinking constructors, drivers not.

It doesn't matter to the team which order the drivers finish in, as long as it's a 1-2. Button and Hamilton proved when they were a McLaren that they could fight each other on the track without hitting each other or otherwise causing damage to the team's chances of scoring maximum points. There's no reason to enforce a "hold station" order even if they wanted to preserve the points. Let them race, and may the best driver win.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 44):
No different than given "orders" from your own boss, where in most cases insubordination gets you canned. Not in F-1, and certainly not in Vettel's case.

There's a good reason for that. By letting Vettel go, Red Bull will be letting one of the best drivers in F1 leave for another team and thus damaging their own chance of winning titles. It's not going to happen.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 47, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
Red Bull would be doing themselves a disservice if they were to let Vettel sit out a race. Vettel is the best driver at Red Bull by far, so not having him on the track is shooting their own chances of a constructors' championship in the foot. The best thing for the team now is to move on.

No argument there. Red Bull gains nothing by sitting him out in this case.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
It doesn't matter to the team which order the drivers finish in, as long as it's a 1-2. Button and Hamilton proved when they were a McLaren that they could fight each other on the track without hitting each other or otherwise causing damage to the team's chances of scoring maximum points. There's no reason to enforce a "hold station" order even if they wanted to preserve the points. Let them race, and may the best driver win.

Different team, different philosophy.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
There's a good reason for that. By letting Vettel go, Red Bull will be letting one of the best drivers in F1 leave for another team and thus damaging their own chance of winning titles. It's not going to happen.

At the end of the day, Vettel and any other driver needs to realize that no driver is bigger than the team. And to his reluctant credit Rosberg realized this during yesterday's race. And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned. My point is Vettel could come to regret what he did yesterday.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 48, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3650 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
Please point out the rule in the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations which state that a driver must follow the instructions of the team.

I'd be very surprised if the driver's contract doesn't specify that team orders must be followed when issued. If I was a team principle, I'd certainly want it in my drivers' contracts.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 46):
Button and Hamilton proved when they were a McLaren that they could fight each other on the track without hitting each other or otherwise causing damage to the team's chances of scoring maximum points.

Only until a certain point in the race (typically the last round of pit stops). After that they would be asked to "maintain station".

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 47):
And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned. My point is Vettel could come to regret what he did yesterday.

One can but only hope. Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Not good from Sebastian Vettel, ignoring orders; but a mind boggling strategy from RBR.
Stopping your best championship contender of winning a race with 20 laps to go!??
Those points might come in handy for Vettel, looking at the Ferrari's speed this early in the season.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):

Did you stop to consider that maybe they want Webber to win the championship?

The statistics are not on Webber's side mate; he is the obvious number 2. I can't see Webber beating Alonso.
From RBR's point of view I imagined they would support the senior driver on his quest.
At the end of the day, each team prefers to have both championships in the pocket.
Really surprised with those team orders, to be honest.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):

I'm sure Webber could have made it harder as well.

On the screen I was watching, Webber fought pretty hard and even attacked back that same lap Vettel passed him.....

Quoting flood (Reply 34):
in that regard both drivers stubbornly played their part, as Webber was hardly listening to anyone when he took on the fight through the corners. Both will get an earful. Vettel obviously more so, but neither were team angels.

Bingo! Webber defended which he should not have done.......

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 41):
Vettel needs to be sat out for a race or two for a lack of sportsmanship.

You mean "a lack" like this?:

Quoting racko (Reply 42):

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...93001
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 47):
And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned

I totally agree! Vettel will shoot ahead of Webber in the championship and comes a time where Webber would normally move over for his teammate in order for him to beat that one red car......and that might not happen, all of a sudden.
I can see Webber and his long toes leaving RBR at the end of this year anyway; problem is, who would take him?
I don't think the other top teams are queueing to sign him up, according to the rumors I hear.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):

Letting FA pass the pit entrance with such an obviously failed front wing was stupid at best, criminal more likely.

Ferrari has been favored in the past, and FIA will not take action against them jeopardizing the other cars.....unfortunately!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
Team orders suck, period. I don't care which driver it's for or against, there shouldn't be any team orders unless and until one driver is mathematically out of the running for the championship

I agree with you. I've always hated team orders when both drivers still have an equal chance to win the title. If a teammate is completely out for the title towards the end of the season, I think it's ok to have them. But until then, this should not exist.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 19):
very dangerous and risky

Risky, but not really dangerous. Webber closed the door, but I don't think he is a lunatic who would try and crash his teammate. I'd call it "calculated risk"  
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 23):
Both drivers were quicker than their teammates, and both were told not to attack. I don't think that's how racing should be conducted.

Exactly. Let them race!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
MW listened to them SV didn't!!

Reminds me of Pironi/Villeneuve.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
there are situations where teams need to make a call

Yes, there are. But on the second GP of the year, it's simply ridiculous. You race to win. You don't race to stay behind. Unless, once again, you have no more chances to win the title.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
lesser drivers would have likely ended in someone getting hurt!

That's for sure  
Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
He did when told to.

Last time I remember Schumacher doing it was in late 1999 when he let Irvine overtake him so the latter could get a chance to win the WDC. But most of the times, he's the one who beneficiated from team orders compared to his teammates.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 37):
The teams are only interested in the Constructors Championship, winning the Drivers Championship is of secondary importance to the teams.

Well, from my understanding, the most prestigious title is the Drivers' one. This is the oldest, the first one in place since 1950. The Constructors title appeared only in the 70s. Traditionally, teams prefer to win the Drivers'.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 37):
Didier Pironi not following team orders was the root cause of Gilles Villeneuve's death.

True, but Gilles was driven by his emotions. He always thought with his heart, not his head. Vettel and Webber are smart enough to not go as far as Gilles.

By the way, have you seen Mark's finger to SV? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvmra6JSbQ . I like drivers who don't care about what is politically correct 

[Edited 2013-03-25 08:14:22]


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 51, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 50):
Well, from my understanding, the most prestigious title is the Drivers' one. This is the oldest, the first one in place since 1950. The Constructors title appeared only in the 70s. Traditionally, teams prefer to win the Drivers'.

The teams' shares of the TV revenue are set by their position in the Constructors'. There's no money in the drivers championship.

The teams absolutely would rather win the constructors' than the drivers', given the choice. It's worth millions. The priority is always to get that wrapped up, then get the drivers' as well if possible.

[Edited 2013-03-25 10:33:28]


If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
They should have their F1 license suspended.. or cancelled!!
Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
LH .. needs to take a good look at his pay cheque and commit to memory who pays him.. pulling into the McLaren pit is a fail that many will not let him forget soon

You're too harsh I think   People make mistakes in the heat of the moment. It's racing.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 17):
What Vettel showed when passing Webber was a sublime display of his driving talent, putting to bed any doubts that he has an inability to overtake; and that he is still as determined as ever to win his fourth title. Vettel's pass on Webber was all fair and above board

Meh- sort of. I agree that it was good to watch, but the fact remains that Webber was told to turn his engine down and coast home. Vettel would probably not have got into the DRS zone otherwise. I can understand people disliking team orders but at the same time it's not really fair if just one of the drivers is toeing the line.

Of course Senna would have done the same. But the difference is he'd have been man enough to admit it, and live with the consequences, rather than weasel out of it by lying in the press conference. If anything that annoys me more.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 51):
The teams' shares of the TV revenue are set by their position in the Constructors'

I'm not fully aware of the TV revenue sharing. If this is indeed the case, then I would understand the importance to get the WCC title. It's also good for the manucturers' PR.

However, I maintain that the WDC is still the most prestigious to get. That's also how they get the #1 on a car.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 54, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 53):
However, I maintain that the WDC is still the most prestigious to get. That's also how they get the #1 on a car.

I'd argue barely anybody notices what number is on a car. It's not exactly huge is it?




If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Actually, I have to stand corrected. It looks like the numbers are attributed according to the WCC position, except for the team who won the WDC: they get to have 1&2 numbers. Can anyone confirm?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 54):
I'd argue barely anybody notices what number is on a car. It's not exactly huge is it?

It's true we don't see them as good as before. There was a time...



Edit:

Actually, the FIA or the FOM should make numbers more visible again. There is space on the sides of the rear wing to put them:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/merc-hami-jere-2013.jpg

Like in the good old days:



[Edited 2013-03-25 11:35:39]


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 56, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 55):
Actually, I have to stand corrected. It looks like the numbers are attributed according to the WCC position, except for the team who won the WDC: they get to have 1&2 numbers. Can anyone confirm?

That's correct. Each team is assigned two consecutive numbers based on the WCC placings the previous year. They assign the higher one to the driver who got the highest WDC position the previous year (unless they're both rookies in which case I think it's decided internally).

The only exception is the team with the WDC who are always assigned 1 & 2.

(also, there is no car 13)

[Edited 2013-03-25 11:53:07]


If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinencfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 754 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 23):
Both drivers were quicker than their teammates,

Was SV really quicker on merit. Whilst racing to the last pit stop he was beaten by Webber, who then turned his engine down following team orders. Did Vettel also turn his engine down, I'd guess not as he was out for the win, but I stress, that is a guess. And if he didn't, it wasn't a fair race.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 56):
That's correct. Each team is assigned two consecutive numbers based on the WCC placings the previous year. They assign the higher one to the driver who got the highest WDC position the previous year (unless they're both rookies in which case I think it's decided internally).The only exception is the team with the WDC who are always assigned 1 & 2.

Years ago Ferrari always used to have 27 & 28 if they didn't have 1 & 2, does this still happen or is it down to WCC positions. I hadn't noticed the ever decreasing size of the numbers, now I look for helmets to identify which car I'm looking at.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 58, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 57):
Years ago Ferrari always used to have 27 & 28 if they didn't have 1 & 2, does this still happen or is it down to WCC positions. I hadn't noticed the ever decreasing size of the numbers, now I look for helmets to identify which car I'm looking at.

Way back when there were a few different schemes- I think the teams could pretty much do as they pleased at one time. There were a few years if memory serves where every car in all the races (including all the support races) had a unique number, so the F1 cars were three digits.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 59, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 55):
Actually, the FIA or the FOM should make numbers more visible again. There is space on the sides of the rear wing to put them:

The numbers there, you can just see the top of it sticking out above the rear wheel.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 60, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3416 times:
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Quoting zckls04 (Reply 52):
Of course Senna would have done the same. But the difference is he'd have been man enough to admit it, and live with the consequences, rather than weasel out of it by lying in the press conference. If anything that annoys me more.

Been thinking about this the last couple of days and I agree.. likely Senna, Prost , and others would have done the same but they would have manned up afterwards and not lied about the mistake.. he said he didn't realise until the weigh in what he had done.. .. with the radio messages from Christian even before the overtake.. what a crock.

If he had said.. "I thought I was faster and the instruction was wrong and decided to go for it!" rather than his sniveling and contrived apology and gutter language explanation.. this might have blown over much quicker than it appears it is going to!

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 57):
now I look for helmets to identify which car I'm looking at.

In the case of RBR you need to look for the "non" Webber helmet as the wunderkinder is known to change his helmet(design) as often as during a single practice session!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 61, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:
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Quoting VC-10 (Reply 37):
The teams are only interested in the Constructors Championship, winning the Drivers Championship is of secondary importance to the teams.
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 51):
The teams' shares of the TV revenue are set by their position in the Constructors'. There's no money in the drivers championship.

The teams absolutely would rather win the constructors' than the drivers', given the choice. It's worth millions. The priority is always to get that wrapped up, then get the drivers' as well if possible.

While that's true, it shouldn't matter to the team which driver finishes ahead of the other. Therefore, there is no need to manufacture a situation where the drivers are told to hold station to maintain maximum points. Let them race each other to the finish line, and may the best driver win. If the team can't trust their drivers to race each other cleanly without compromising the team's position in the race, then who can they trust?

Quoting scbriml (Reply 48):
I'd be very surprised if the driver's contract doesn't specify that team orders must be followed when issued. If I was a team principle, I'd certainly want it in my drivers' contracts.

I'm sure it would be in driver contracts. But that's irrelevant to the question of sportsmanship that was raised.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 47):
And during the rest of this season, it would not surprise me at some point if Webber decides to "even the score", teammates be damned. My point is Vettel could come to regret what he did yesterday.

It wouldn't surprise me either. Webber is welcome to try. Vettel is clearly the better of the two drivers at Red Bull and will more often than not finish ahead of Webber without any intervention from the team.

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 49):
I can see Webber and his long toes leaving RBR at the end of this year anyway; problem is, who would take him?
I don't think the other top teams are queueing to sign him up, according to the rumors I hear.

I agree, I think this will be Webber's final year in Formula 1 - most certainly his final year at Red Bull given what happened over the weekend. I doubt Webber would want to remain with Red Bull after his contract expires at the end of this season.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 52):
but the fact remains that Webber was told to turn his engine down and coast home. Vettel would probably not have got into the DRS zone otherwise.

I disagree. Vettel was already catching Webber before their final pit stops, albeit by nowhere near as much as he had until after the final pit stop.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 55):
Actually, I have to stand corrected. It looks like the numbers are attributed according to the WCC position, except for the team who won the WDC: they get to have 1&2 numbers. Can anyone confirm?

That is correct. Unless the WDC retires, in which case the team with which the retired WDC drove for will get 0 and 2 (as there is no reigning WDC, there is no number 1). The last time that happened was at Williams in 1993 and 1994: Mansell won the title in 1992 and "retired"; Prost won the title in 1993 and then retired.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 56):
They assign the higher one to the driver who got the highest WDC position the previous year

The lower number, not the higher number. While that is the general rule, it hasn't always been the case: witness Rosberg always getting the higher number at Mercedes despite beating Schumacher not once, not twice, but three times. The two numbers are assigned to the team, and it's up to the team how they assign those two numbers to their two drivers.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3367 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 56):
That's correct

Thanks  
Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 57):
now I look for helmets to identify which car I'm looking at.

And yet it's not always easy to identify the drivers with their helmets. Look at Hamilton/Rosberg.

The easiest to spot recently was Schumacher: bright red helmet in a grey car  
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 59):
The numbers there, you can just see the top of it sticking out above the rear wheel.

On the Merc, it is there indeed (though it could be placed a lot higher   ). But it's not the case on all cars. McLaren have them too, but not Red Bull or Lotus. I think it should be compulsory for the teams to display their numbers in a more visible way.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 61):
That is correct. Unless the WDC retires, in which case the team with which the retired WDC drove for will get 0 and 2 (as there is no reigning WDC, there is no number 1). The last time that happened was at Williams in 1993 and 1994: Mansell won the title in 1992 and "retired"; Prost won the title in 1993 and then retired.

It only happened twice I think. Jody Scheckter and Damon Hill were the only ones to have the 0 in the history of F1. However, if Damon Hill had to take the #0 because two WDCs retired, Jody used it because in the 70s drivers could choose the numbers they wanted.

[Edited 2013-03-26 07:28:14]


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 63, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 61):
If the team can't trust their drivers to race each other cleanly without compromising the team's position in the race, then who can they trust?

Turkey 2010? Wheel to racing between teammates is rarely desirable for a team boss.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 61):
I disagree. Vettel was already catching Webber before their final pit stops, albeit by nowhere near as much as he had until after the final pit stop.

Well, he may have caught Webber, he may not. That's speculation. However at least it would have been a fair fight. If you're playing the "what if" game, Vettel might have destroyed his tyres by the time he got there.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 61):
The lower number, not the higher number.

The numbers are ranks rather than ordinals so 3 is higher than 4 in this case.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Webber's reaction, seconds after the finish.
Pretty dangerous and unprofessional....and just think about a high speed crash with that many people so close to the pit wall!

Watch this:

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...46449/Footage_reveals_Webber_chop/


Christian Horner needs to speak to both drivers I'm afraid......get a decent team coach to smoothen things over!
Invite both drivers to a boring class room in Austria during the next 3 weeks, that will teach them!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 64):
Christian Horner needs to speak to both drivers I'm afraid......get a decent team coach to smoothen things over!
Invite both drivers to a boring class room in Austria during the next 3 weeks, that will teach them!

The problem for Red Bull is that fixing the tension between the drivers requires some sort of sanction for Vettel, which isn't in the team's interest. Nor could they realistically do it given that Webber was guilty of the same offense last year.

Webber has to retire soon anyway, and when he does Red Bull will have lost one of the best #2 drivers in history. Only Rubens springs to mind as being better by virtue of being (marginally) less whiny. It'll be interesting to see who they come up with next; it's pretty hard to find a driver blessed with such a useful inability to do race starts but an otherwise excellent pace.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

A nice montage:



 



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 67, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3258 times:
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Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 66):
A nice montage:

LOL... and...



LIkely won't be the last!!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 68, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

http://imageshack.us/a/img132/7655/rbrr.jpg

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 69, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

Interesting that Webbers getting his panties in a twist about something he himself has done before....

2011 British Grand Prix, Webber ignores a team order not to pass Vettel and tries to do so anyway.


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 70, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 67):
Quoting bill142 (Reply 68):

  

Quoting moo (Reply 69):
Interesting that Webbers getting his panties in a twist about something he himself has done before....

Yes, and that's why I am surprised also with Webber's reaction. I always thought he would be the kind of guy to say: "to hell with team orders. Let's fight". But apparently not.

In other news, Vettel apologized to the Red Bull staff: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106430

Quote:
Team principal Christian Horner has revealed Vettel said sorry to team personnel for what happened, and vowed that he would never repeat such actions again.

Mmmh, not sure about that   



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 71, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Vettel's only mistake last Sunday was that he apologized.

He is clearly the better driver, he did what Red Bull pays him for, he finished the race sucessfully and won the points for the team.

Webber again showed that he cannot beat Vettel and Vettel's biggest rival Alonso kicked himself out of the race like a schoolboy.

Vettel is a triple F1 champion, he is not a trainee who can be told what to do. F1 is clearly a sport where only the best can win.

The team has to support Vettel and hopefully they do not repeat their istake of team order, setting back the real # 1 to second place.

Concerning Webber, he has not supported Vettel last year in Sao Paulo when and where it should have been his duty and where the championship was at stake

Why should Vettel be nice to Webber, he has clearly shown in Sepang that he can do without him. Horner and the owners should understand that and apologoize to Vettel for making him feel bad. They have to accept that Seb is the leader of the team now, like Schumacher was with Ferrari, if they don't neither the team nor Vettel will be champion this year.

Ferrari waits exactly for that to sign him up and be back in the picture again.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 72, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3041 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 71):
Vettel's only mistake last Sunday was that he apologized.

Couldn't have put it any better myself. Vettel didn't do anything wrong in Malaysia and should never have apologised, nor should the team have asked him to apologise. The real tragedy on the day was the fact that team orders were given. It doesn't make any sense. They are racing drivers who are paid to win races, and that's exactly what Vettel did.

I hope he doesn't change a bit after this debacle. His determination to win at all costs is what makes him a triple world champion. If he tones down his aggression as a result of being given a bollocking by Horner, then I fear that the Vettel of old - the Vettel who knows how to win races and championships and be aggressive on track - will be gone.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 73, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 72):

They're also employees and if the team wants their drivers to hold station they should do it. Mercedes is a case in point of drivers doing what they're told.

What would happen to you if you ignored requests from your employer? You'd be disciplined in someway.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 72):
I hope he doesn't change a bit after this debacle. His determination to win at all costs is what makes him a triple world champion

I think a certain A. Newey might be a small factor....



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineRockson From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 73):
They're also employees and if the team wants their drivers to hold station they should do it.

Unless the driver is Mark Webber, right?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 74):
I think a certain A. Newey might be a small factor....

Guess who designed Webber's car?



[Edited 2013-03-31 14:22:26]

User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 76, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Quoting Rockson (Reply 75):
Unless the driver is Mark Webber, right?

No Webber should do as he's told as well.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 77, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting Rockson (Reply 75):
Guess who designed Webber's car?

OK, then that statement should read "being slightly better than one of the most mediocre drivers in Formula One is what makes him a triple world champion".



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Guys,

I just can't wait for the next one in a fortnight from now!
I am sure the relationship between the blue & purple cars will be just very......uh.....pleasant!

I do hope that the guy that is famous for saying sarcastically "not bad for a #2" on the radio........finally realizes that he is indeed #2, based on merits.



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 79, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 73):
They're also employees and if the team wants their drivers to hold station they should do it. Mercedes is a case in point of drivers doing what they're told.

you can hardly compare someone making double digit millions p.a. with the regular employee. You don't get such contracts for beeing Mr. Niceguy, you get that for previous performance-. The team order in the second race was wrong and senseless. It would have made more sense in SAO last season, last race where Vettel made it on his own as well.

Webber was never a team player with Vettel, He was no even neutral in the SAO trace.

F1 championships can be won only with personal ego. If that is halted by a team order, that team will not win the championship. Simple fact. Nico Rosberg will not make that mistake again, hopefully and his stall mate knew quite well why he wasn't happy after the race



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 79):
you can hardly compare someone making double digit millions p.a. with the regular employee

CEO's, Football managers all get paid heaps and what happens when they fall foul of their employers wishes?


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

wrong comparison. Football is a team play, running a company is as well.

F1 shows that the back-up team supports 2 drivers and the outstanding one is simply better. Not by team order but by own skills and whatever else you may call it.

Firing Vettel would mean that Red Bull can kiss the constructors title good bye. Webber would not be a help in that race. Mercedes, Ferrari et al would try to get Vettel and pay him twice what Red Bull paid him.

Vettel has a position where he can give a damn about what his employer whishes. Like I said, the only mistake he made was to apologise.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

F1 is as much a team sport as it is an individual sport which many seem to forget. Vettel would be nothing without the team he has around him.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

....and the team would be nothing without an outstanding driver. Changing tyres in 2 seconds can be trained. Driving like a champion takes more than training. It takes talent and the absolut spirit to win and that's only 2 ingredients.

.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently onlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 81):
Like I said, the only mistake he made was to apologise.

i'd agree with that. At the end of the day, he was faster than webber and pasted him. Webber pushed him to the wall and he didn't back off.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 83):
....and the team would be nothing without an outstanding driver.

An outstanding driver. Not that specific outstanding driver. You think Alonso couldn't win in the 2010-2012 Red Bulls?    Hamilton? Raikkonen? Button? Hell, even Massa would have a shot given the form he's in right now.

Newey is the star of the team. He might not get paid as much, but trust me if Red Bull had to pick between Newey and Vettel, they would pick Newey without a shadow of a doubt.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2736 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 79):

F1 championships can be won only with personal ego. If that is halted by a team order, that team will not win the championship. Simple fact. Nico Rosberg will not make that mistake again, hopefully and his stall mate knew quite well why he wasn't happy after the race

Agreed. I dislike the fact that Mercedes asked Rosberg to remain behind Hamilton. That's not what racing should be about, it should be about who is the fastest driver at the end of the race. Rosberg was artificially held back from a well deserved third place.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 83):
Driving like a champion takes more than training. It takes talent and the absolut spirit to win and that's only 2 ingredients.

Again, I agree with this.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 85):
An outstanding driver. Not that specific outstanding driver. You think Alonso couldn't win in the 2010-2012 Red Bulls? Hamilton? Raikkonen? Button? Hell, even Massa would have a shot given the form he's in right now.

Building a competitive car is only part of the equation. The other part of the equation is getting a decent driver to win races and championships with it. Webber has the best car, but he hasn't won more than a handful of races with it, while Vettel has taken many race wins and three championships.

Yes, Newey has designed many championship winning cars, but building a championship winning car does not automatically guarantee a championship if the drivers aren't up to the task.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 86):
Agreed. I dislike the fact that Mercedes asked Rosberg to remain behind Hamilton. That's not what racing should be about, it should be about who is the fastest driver at the end of the race. Rosberg was artificially held back from a well deserved third place.

I'm torn by this, because Rosberg was told on the radio "Hamilton could be faster, hes been asked to back off as well", so the two weren't on similar performance levels on the car at that point.


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

I can't wait to be next week. 3 weeks without Formula 1 during the season is too much....


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 86):
Yes, Newey has designed many championship winning cars, but building a championship winning car does not automatically guarantee a championship if the drivers aren't up to the task.

And I fully agree that Webber is not up to the task; you'll never find me claiming he is an outstanding driver.

The idea though that Red Bull would not be able to win the constructors title without Vettel is rubbish though. They could attract another driver to that team who would deliver the goods.

Unless PanHAM was suggesting that Red Bull can't win the constructors with only one driver. That I can agree with.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 5
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2659 times:
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Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 88):
I can't wait to be next week. 3 weeks without Formula 1 during the season is too much....

I also can't wait for this three week period to be over, so that all this hoopla with Vettel disobeying team orders will blow over. By the end of the season, Vettel will be celebrating his fourth consecutive title (hopefully), Webber will (likely) retire from F1 and this whole thing would have been forgotten.

This isn't the only three week break in the season. I can also see the other side of the story - those who work so damn hard to keep us entertained need breaks too. I can live with it ... (if only barely)! I do get withdrawal symptoms during the off season, but for me, three weeks isn't that long  
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 89):

The idea though that Red Bull would not be able to win the constructors title without Vettel is rubbish though. They could attract another driver to that team who would deliver the goods.

Well, that would depend on who takes Vettel's place, doesn't it? I'd say Vettel is up there with the very best of F1 drivers on the grid today, along with Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen. I don't believe anybody else has the same raw talent as this quartet.

[Edited 2013-04-05 09:21:33]


Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 90):
those who work so damn hard to keep us entertained need breaks too

That's true. But it's only the start of the season as well. I understand a 3-week break at mid-season, but not after only 2 GPs.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 92, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 90):
Well, that would depend on who takes Vettel's place, doesn't it? I'd say Vettel is up there with the very best of F1 drivers on the grid today, along with Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen. I don't believe anybody else has the same raw talent as this quartet.

Truthfully I can't be objective on this. He's such a little weasel it clouds my judgment, so I have to recuse myself.

As far as the other three go, I'd agree that they're the clear choices for the most talented drivers on the grid, although I'd have to say I rate Alonso as a clear number one in terms of overall ability.

The story of this season will IMO be who emerges as the next wave of talent. I tend to view Alonso, Massa and Button as contemporaries in terms of age, then the next wave being Rosberg, Hamilton, Vettel. It's been a while since we've had any outstanding new drivers, so let's see if somebody can step up.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
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