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Barack Obama's Speech Today In Jerusalem  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Barack Obama is still talking as I write this, but I think, so far, his speech of today in Jerusalem is definitely something different. The usual rhetoric is absolutely absent, and there are some phrases and sentences that should have a real impact in the common people of Israel and Palestine, and probably in their authorities too.... I'm not saying this will cause any immediate change, or any sort of miraculous hug between Israelis and Palestinians.
But it seems very different compared with all the previous U.S.Presidents.



Your thoughts ?


Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2456 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

Yes, the rhetoric is really different, and it raises the expectations. I really, really hope deeds will follow these words.

"Put yourself in their shoes -- look at the world through their eyes," he said. "It is not fair that a Palestinian child cannot grow up in a state of her own, and lives with the presence of a foreign army that controls the movements of her parents every single day. It is not just when settler violence against Palestinians goes unpunished. It is not right to prevent Palestinians from farming their lands; to restrict a student's ability to move around the West Bank; or to displace Palestinian families from their home."

Sounds like the Sermon on the Mount.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8921 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

I would have liked to hear more about how it is wrong for Palestinians to propagandize their children on the desirability of martyrdom and killing Jews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNZniRFSeug

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 1):
Sounds like the Sermon on the Mount.

Oh... My... God...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):

I would have liked to hear more about how it is wrong for Palestinians to propagandize their children on the desirability of martyrdom and killing Jews.

That's direct result from all the actions of Israel against Palestinians. When negotiations to stop building of these illegal settlements and stop violating basic human rights of Palestinian people failed it's just natural that people resort to radicalism and violence.

That's what has always happened, when you take democratic means of changing things away from people radicalism will start to grow. Maybe this is what Israelis wanted, discriminating Palestinians until they lose their faith in solving the conflict peaceful way and start fighting back, and after that Israel starts to play the role of a victim.

This is so typical from Israeli supporters and many Americans in general, blaming people Palestinians & other people for radicalism completely forgetting what has driven these people to the point where they see no other way of solving anything than violence.

The ultimate truth is that Israel & United States are largely responsible from all the events that have driven groups of people to the point where they see no other way than terrorism to have any effect on anything.


Great to see Obama finally doing the right thing and trying to solve problems instead of making them worse like George W Bush and other short sighted Republicans have done.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8921 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 3):
That's direct result from all the actions of Israel against Palestinians. When negotiations to stop building of these illegal settlements and stop violating basic human rights of Palestinian people failed it's just natural that people resort to radicalism and violence.

Horsecrap. Such propaganda is geared towards raising children to believe in Genocide and glorious martyrdom in its execution. It goes far beyond the desire for land, self-determination and self-government. You don't see the same sort of thing from the Basques or the Irish, do you?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Horsecrap. Such propaganda is geared towards raising children to believe in Genocide and glorious martyrdom in its execution. It goes far beyond the desire for land, self-determination and self-government. You don't see the same sort of thing from the Basques or the Irish, do you?

Both Basques and Irish people in Northern Ireland live in democratic countries where they can promote their ideas peaceful way, Palestinians can't as Israel isn't interested in real negotiations and peace.

Also if you didn't notice over its history ETA has killed hundreds of people in Spain, I believe way more than Palestinians have killed Israelis during last 10 years combined. But maybe you were too busy thinking about 9/11 and poor people living in Rogue State of Israel to notice this, it's sad how people keep thinking about how horrible 9/11 was each year when 11th of September completely ignoring all the other just as huge crimes against humanity committed by US and Israeli military.


Also as far as I know both Spain and the UK have pretty good education systems, I doubt Gaza has thanks to Israel making Gaza one huge prison camp. In general less educated people are more likely they are going to fall for pure propaganda and radicalism. Proper and objective education could help these people better understand the other side of this conflict and thus maybe help with the negotiations, however I can't see that happening as long as Israelis keep messing around in Palestinian area.

[Edited 2013-03-21 12:52:54]


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 5):
Both Basques and Irish people in Northern Ireland live in democratic countries where they can promote their ideas peaceful way,

Yet until very recently (ie the 1990's) they chose NOT to do so, and continued acting as urban guerrillas. Specifically with respect to Ireland, the geopolitical landscape hasn't changed one iota since before the violence in Ireland began. You really should do some homework and fact checking before making statements. Rhetoric and idealism are only worth so much.

I for one am perfectly fine with a two-state solution, as per the original mandate. Two states or not, the United States government will not withdraw support from Israel as long as oil plays a roll in the region. Supporting Israel ensured the US government has a place at the table. Relations with a future Palestinian state (IMHO inevitable at this point) may be helped by the Obama administration's initial stance, though they will likely still be frosty at best given the political history of the region. I should like to point out, that the two-state option was rejected by the Palestinians themselves more than once. I can't say that I particularly blame the Palestinians for not being thrilled about Israel. We're talking about creating a nation that (in name) hadn't existed for almost two thousand years, comprising a group of people largely implanted from several parts of the globe in the name of a homeland. On the flipside, Palestine wasn't a country either, but rather just a region and its people continually being rolled over by the various empires du jour that have been drawing and redrawing the lines in what we call the Middle East for thousands of years. This is really just another chapter.

[Edited 2013-03-21 13:30:04]

User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Yeah well sure I'm not saying that Palestinians are blameless, both Israelis and Palestinians are at fault. I can understand both sides here, Palestinians and their ancestors have lived there for a long time and I can very well understand why Israeli Jews want to have their own state at any cost after all the horrible events of WW2.

Indeed two state solution is the only real option, I hope some day there will be peace between independent states of Israel and Palestine... If nothing else seems to work then I think some third party should force both sides to peace through military intervention if nothing else has an effect.

I hope both Israelis and Palestinians would stop listening extremists and start seriously working towards two state solution.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2729 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):

I would have liked to hear more about how it is wrong for Palestinians to propagandize their children on the desirability of martyrdom and killing Jews.

Why? Because you only see one side? Then you're part of the problem.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2593 times:

Until 1967, the Palestinians were citizens of Jordan and Egypt, respectively. Israel captures the land in the war, and annexes it. That's the way wars have been fought since the beginning of time. Israel tried to return these lands (with the exception of East Jerusalem) to Jordan and Egypt, and both refused.

As they say, to the victor go the spoils.

Past posts aside...after my up close and personal experience with Palestinians on my latest trip to Israel, they will NEVER get support of any kind from me.

Marc


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Horsecrap. Such propaganda is geared towards raising children to believe in Genocide and glorious martyrdom in its execution. It goes far beyond the desire for land, self-determination and self-government.

        

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
Until 1967, the Palestinians were citizens of Jordan and Egypt, respectively

Well, the King of Jordan got tired of their rabblerousing and threw them out, massacring them by the thousands in the Black September of 1970.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
Israel captures the land in the war, and annexes it. That's the way wars have been fought since the beginning of time. Israel tried to return these lands (with the exception of East Jerusalem) to Jordan and Egypt, and both refused.

As they say, to the victor go the spoils.

        

Too bad "We the People" will likely never be privy to what is being said behind closed doors. I would love to be a fly on the wall.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7252 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2570 times:


This is all I have to say. I think it is time for a different approach though but both sides need to figure things out its not a one sided thing. CNN quickly pulled the Gaza Article from their front page mobile website btw.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12856 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

A bunch of the press coverage here in the US of this current trip has labelled Israel as "The US's Best Ally". I'm not at all sure why Israel is given that label. The fact is that they receive large sums of money from the US Treasury over decades of time and don't deliver it back, and have drawn us into many political tensions that we'd otherwise not be concerned with. Why is this?

Bennie was pretty much ready to draw us into a war with Iran last fall till Obama told him to go blank himself. I for one am glad for it. The result for all of this was our 'best ally' interfering with US elections by hosting Mitt Romney campaign fund raising appearances . Why is this?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):

A bunch of the press coverage here in the US of this current trip has labelled Israel as "The US's Best Ally". I'm not at all sure why Israel is given that label. The fact is that they receive large sums of money from the US Treasury over decades of time and don't deliver it back, and have drawn us into many political tensions that we'd otherwise not be concerned with. Why is this?

Israel might not pay back all of their debt in terms of money, but a lot of US hi-tech companies are over there with major research and development facilities, and they pay little to no taxes, which are a major expense in Israel.

As pro-Zionist as I am, I'm not sure where the label "The US's Best Ally" came from. Culturally and strategically, they are an important ally, but so are other countries that we are allies with.

Marc


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2932 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
they will NEVER get support of any kind from me.

Well, they say.... a leopard never changes its spots !

Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
Why is this?

1) Because of AIPAC (American Israel Public affairs Committee) A VERY influential and powerful lobby group, with contacts all over Capitol Hill.
Most US politicians want to retain their elected position in the US administration, however, one way to get your marching orders is to call AIPAC into question.

2) Israel has a vast and ever present propaganda machine.. it never sleeps !

3) Most Americans are ignorant of external affairs, especially ME politics !

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 13):
but so are other countries that we are allies with.

Pity then that they don't receive the same unquestioning support as Israel seems to enjoy

[Edited 2013-03-21 20:00:48]

[Edited 2013-03-21 20:14:14]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12856 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 13):
As pro-Zionist as I am, I'm not sure where the label "The US's Best Ally" came from. Culturally and strategically, they are an important ally, but so are other countries that we are allies with.

My $0.02: The UK is the US's best ally. Despite that unfortunate colonial era, and even discounting the WWII era, they've given us access to their military facilities without question and have partnered in countless military systems that both depend on and have joined along on various military endeavors both valid and invalid and have shared a 'special' relationship with regard to intelligence sharing that no other nation shares. They are a very important trading partner and IMO deliver more than they ask for in return.

I'd say Israel is an important ally, but the current PM is putting a lot of that at risk.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 14):
Pity then that they don't receive the same unquestioning support as Israel seems to enjoy

Really? Because I've never seen our support of most of Europe, South Korea, Australia, etc. questioned I could name tons of other countries, but I don't really need to list just about every country on the planet - do I?.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 14):
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
they will NEVER get support of any kind from me.

Well, they say.... a leopard never changes its spots !

Let's see how you'd feel if you PERSONALLY were targeted in an attack. I was. Another second or two, and my friend and I would have been a couple of burned out corpses. This is no dramatization or exaggeration. This is fact.

Marc


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
As they say, to the victor go the spoils.

Very well, then don't complain about the present situation...

I don't get the huge outrage when someone criticizes Israel. I haven't seen anyone here being anti-Jewish/Israel, even our resident poster who heavily criticizes Israel/the US (not trying to call you out, pvjin, giving you props) posted:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 7):
Yeah well sure I'm not saying that Palestinians are blameless, both Israelis and Palestinians are at fault

The only one sided garbage I'm seeing is Israel can do no wrong. There are the extremes on the other side out there, don't get me wrong, but to say one side is only to blame is pretty ignorant


At least be honest, the only way Israel is going to get everything they want is if they kill all the Palestinians. I don't think any of our posters want that, so stop with the unrealistic expectations. Israel is not perfect, they make mistakes, they have a right to exist IMO, and I think they can do a lot better in dealing with this situation. The attitudes like this--

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
Past posts aside...after my up close and personal experience with Palestinians on my latest trip to Israel, they will NEVER get support of any kind from me.

completely don't help, and then you're aghast when you don't see the Palestinians budging?

Thanks to those here keeping it civil and looking for a real way out of this hole. I'm so tired of being criticized for not giving Israel 100% support



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 14):
Israel has a vast and ever present propaganda machine.. it never sleeps !

and it is because-----------

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
it is wrong for Palestinians to propagandize their children on the desirability of martyrdom and killing Jews.

And the Palestinian Arab Propaganda Machine is limitless with it's Petro-Dollar funding from the oil rich Arab nations. They all teach horrible lies about Jewish people to their children to be sure and instill plenty of hatred for the next generation.
While Israel is told to "turn the other cheek" and take "the upper-hand". A nasty set of double-standards from a vile collection of anti-semities continues to grow and spread like a cancer in the region. Hatred is the fuel that drives them.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 14):
Most Americans are ignorant of external affairs, especially ME politics !

What do you know of "most Americans"? Just what makes you an expert on who and what "most Americans" are?
You should be reminded we are all entitled to our opinions and arguments on this blog. We pay for the equal right to our opinion. Democracy is the right to have a different opinion than yours.

Speaking of blogs, if anyone would like to read about the atrocities the world press keeps under-wraps because of the power of the Petro-Dollar funded Arab propaganda machine then read you some AtlasShrugs! I'll bet you never hear of any of this stuff going on in the mainstream media! Wonder why? Makes me want to go hmmmmmmmm.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 13):
Culturally and strategically, they are an important ally, but so are other countries that we are allies with.

No doubt, U.K. is IMO the most notorious case, but probably this is just diplomacy. If they are asked in two weeks in London, the "most important and close ally of US" will be U. K .

Can some of the U.S. based A.net members give us an update about how is this speech being commented or analyzed by the media and international experts in the U.S. ?? Were there any reactions from the Republicans ?

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21801 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 18):
While Israel is told to "turn the other cheek" and take "the upper-hand".

I'm not sure how being told to stop building settlements in the West Bank equates to "turning the other cheek".

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2932 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 16):
This is no dramatization or exaggeration. This is fact.

It may well be, I don't doubt you for a miniute.

But what I do think though, is why ?

Why did this happen. What were the reasons for this attack. It generally takes two to tango, dose it not ?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 18):
What do you know of "most Americans"? Just what makes you an expert on who and what "most Americans" are?
You should be reminded we are all entitled to our opinions and arguments on this blog. We pay for the equal right to our opinion. Democracy is the right to have a different opinion than yours.

Its a very well known fact, that many Americans are extremely insular in there international political views, that is if they have a view at all.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 18):
A nasty set of double-standards from a vile collection of anti-semities continues to grow and spread like a cancer in the region. Hatred is the fuel that drives them

Oh well......
Perhaps Israel should take head of what BO and many countless of other world leaders have said. Israel needs to embrace peace with the Palestinians stop building on land that is not theirs, and agree to a 2 state solution. NOW !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineSFBdude From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
I would have liked to hear more about how it is wrong for Palestinians to propagandize their children on the desirability of martyrdom and killing Jews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNZni...FSeug

I wonder what propaganda these guys have been eating.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-2...epare-to-join-israeli-army/4397478


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12856 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 18):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
it is wrong for Palestinians to propagandize their children on the desirability of martyrdom and killing Jews.

And the Palestinian Arab Propaganda Machine is limitless with it's Petro-Dollar funding from the oil rich Arab nations.

What does either position matter to the bulk of US citizens in the current times?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25567 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2434 times:
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Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 16):
Let's see how you'd feel if you PERSONALLY were targeted in an attack.

But why were you "personally targeted"?

I've walked the streets of Ramallah and Gaza City and never felt threatened in any way, quite the reverse.

Were you just unlucky, wrong place, wrong time, in which case it wasn't personal, or were you doing something that caused them (whoever they are) to attack you - personally?

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Cadet985 : The night before we went to this site, a couple Israeli soldiers got bored and decided to harass Palestinians. As far as I know, there were no injuri
26 Post contains images Caryjack : I'm a conservative US citizen and listen to a few talk radio stations. This afternoon I was listening to Michael Medved's show on KTTH near Seattle.
27 Pellegrine : I love all these conservative Americans talking about Israel. They have never even studied the situation or the politics there. It is really ironic; t
28 na : Obama is right. Hard to swallow for all the safe-right majorities in both populations, but nevertheless finally a clear word. The Israelis and Palesti
29 flyingturtle : The U.S., as the celebrated world "leader" in democracy and other stuff like that should force Israel to make one law. One law, with one article. And
30 ImperialEagle : No, that is a very condescending generalization. Like saying all gays are feminine, or all people of Scotch or Dutch decent are cheap.
31 KiwiRob : So apart from taking money from the US taxpayer and giving nothing in return they are also taking jobs from the US economy, so what exactly is the be
32 OzGlobal : It is a generalisation, but it can also be a measurable phenomenon. A number of Pew global attitudes surveys show that Americans are less interested
33 scbriml : ... makes the World blind.
34 Quokkas : This sounds rather like a statement proclaiming the annexation of the West Bank and Gaza - i.e. the creation of a single State and the abandonment of
35 Dreadnought : I'm just curious - are you saying that if Israel reverts to 1967 borders, and Palestine becomes an independent nation free to do what they want, ther
36 Post contains links and images zkojq : Don't worry, we can be assured that within an hour of giving a mildly empathetic speech for the Palestinians, Mr Obama will have gotten back to the ta
37 na : well said.
38 windy95 : Wow...He really is the Messiah.. Same here.. Blah, blah, blah...This same old rhetoric is getting old. Which is why the Arab's are the problem. Or I
39 pvjin : Nah, it's the truth. As long as any Palestinian can't pick up a random part of land from area of Israel and start building a settlement there without
40 Revelation : Never is a long time. Personally, I 'never' thought I'd see the fall of the Soviet Union, but fall it has. In time the Arabs will gain control throug
41 scbriml : Unfortunately, I can't claim it as my own. Widely attributed to Mahatma Gandhi.
42 NAV20 : Must admit that that's largely the way I see it. I'm old enough to have heard some of the radio news, and even seen some newspaper headlines, way bac
43 SFBdude : I wouldn't say that its Jews vs Muslims. I'd say that its zionism vs everyone else. And don't forget that, although Muslims make up the majority of Pa
44 Revelation : The idea of zionism, and in particular the support given it by the Balfour declaration of 1917, predates the Holocaust by quite a bit. Possibly true,
45 mariner : I don't think that's the case. From the First World War on, it had been the British/French intention that "Palestine" become a Jewish state, as defin
46 Pellegrine : How does treating a population humanely equate to peace between two populations? No. You must treat the populations humanely first. And then find pea
47 NAV20 : I think you've got it exactly right. mariner. But, in the event, after the holocaust, the Jewish refugees gained priority and there was never any pro
48 Quokkas : Much of the discussion surrounding the Balfour Declaration and the attitude towards Palestine of the British post 1945 has been covered in many previ
49 mariner : Not everyone thought it was irreconcilable and not every (Palestinian) Jew wanted the doors to be opened to European Jews. One of the two Eliahu's wh
50 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Well for one thing, I read plenty on foreign affairs and world issues. Interesting Thesis done from the University of Sydney, on just how insular man
51 mariner : Ahhhhh - Netanyahu's old hobby-horse - the Jordanian Option. How does that work - a whole mass of people should be uprooted their ancestral homeland
52 DeltaMD90 : I guess the Native Americans should kick us Americans out and ship us back to Europe, Africa, and Asia??? Basically the same thing
53 Post contains links mariner : The Aborigines of Australia, too. In Tasmania we came very close to wiping them out. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/14/australia.features11
54 Post contains images TheCommodore : Difference is We've learnt from past ! Unfortunately though, Israel continues to go down the path of Barbarism.... Pity for them as history will show
55 mariner : It took a long time - centuries - I would't brag about it. Emancipation of Jews in England didn't happen until 1835 - reversing what was begun with t
56 Revelation : That will be true, at least until the next time "you've" forgotten what "you've" learned from the past... Let's face it, land grabs are hard to resis
57 TheCommodore : How true... Yes, history has a habit of repeating itself now doesn't it !
58 windy95 : Funny how when the Jordan controlled the West Bank they did not give the "Palestinians" a homeland. Do you really think that if the Syria, Jordan and
59 DeltaMD90 : ...assuming that is what would happen, that should mean Israel should continue to do its current actions, and it is ok because "the Arabs states may
60 Pellegrine : Funny, how ignorant some Israelis are with regards to treating humanely people they live amongst. If people are angry enough to blow themselves up...
61 mariner : I don't know what that has to do with anything I said. You said that Jordan is the Palestinian state: Why should the Palestinians be forced from thei
62 SFBdude : I know you're a self proclaimed zionist and you seem to be pretty proud about it but, zionism is widely opposed by many people, not just Muslims. Look
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