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Amanda Knox Must Return To Italy  
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2989 times:

The court has overturned her appeal and she must go back to Italy to stand for retrial..

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...-retrial-meredith-kercher/2020289/

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCplKlinger From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2973 times:

Actually, she does not, and more than likely won't be compelled to. She will be tried in absentia if she if found guilty, Italy can request her extradition. I can see the US turning that request down rather quickly. The Italian justice system is not particularly known for it's trustworthiness. As long as she stays out of an EU member country, there is little to no chance of her ending up back in Italy.

User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4636 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

This is double jeopardy in the US which is not allowed by the US Constitution. I highly doubt Amanda Knox will go back even if extradition is requested. The US State department would have grounds to turn it down. The prosecution would have to put forth an extemely compelling argument of her guilt. Based on the last trial, I do not think this is possible.


Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

Actually the Italian justice system is pretty solid, not afraid to go after the powerful, and independent from politicians. Now, I have really no opinion on that particular story, Italians think she's guilty, Americans think she's innocent, it has nothing to do with the facts.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7958 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
This is double jeopardy

No, it is not. It is a normal appeal, else her temporary release from prison would have been double jeopardy as well.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Unless there is new evidence, a retrial seem illegitimate to me.

User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7958 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 5):
Unless there is new evidence, a retrial seem illegitimate to me.

A plaintiff can only appeal a decision when there is new evidence? Wow!



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1388 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
No, it is not. It is a normal appeal, else her temporary release from prison would have been double jeopardy as well.

Indeed. She hasn't been recharged; the verdict from a lower court has been annulled on appeal. No double jeopardy would apply.

Wonder what the rationale for this ruling is though.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
A plaintiff can only appeal a decision when there is new evidence? Wow!

Well you have to decide one way or the other at some point.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3659 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2744 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6):
A plaintiff can only appeal a decision when there is new evidence? Wow!

I believe you are confusing civil with criminal. If she was found innocent, it is double jeopardy. If it was a hung jury or mistrial, different story.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7958 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 8):
Well you have to decide one way or the other at some point.

At what point? As long as the formal appeal process remains open, no decision is written in stone. Mrs. Knox's acquittal wasn't a final decision.

It doesn't make a very good impression when a lower court first convinces a defendant, then an appeals court nullifies the conviction, and then a higher appeals court questions the previous acquittal. But this can happen and does indeed happen - not only in Italy of course.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
Actually the Italian justice system is pretty solid, not afraid to go after the powerful, and independent from politicians. Now, I have really no opinion on that particular story, Italians think she's guilty, Americans think she's innocent, it has nothing to do with the facts.

Untrue.

I think she's guilty as sin, but also that any government should only get one opportunity to try somebody for a crime.


If folks in Rome want to let the courts bend Italians over a barrel that's fine, but I don't think the US should extradite Knox in this case.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

Unfortunate after the railroad job the Italians tried to pull and are still trying to follow through with.

I doubt she will over go back to Italy. Their so called justice system has a habit of trying to screw over Americans.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7958 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
I believe you are confusing civil with criminal.

No, I don't.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
If she was found innocent, it is double jeopardy.

That's a double 'no'. The prosecutor can appeal against any decision made by a court that appears to violate judicature, and Mrs Knox wasn't found innocent, even though she's considered to be innocent.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
Their so called justice system has a habit of trying to screw over Americans.

Is that just a cheap shot at non-Americans or can you actually substantiate your claim?



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

NoUFO

I am thinking of that EA-6B crew that Italian officials didn't want to follow the existing SOFA on. particulaly the two backs eaters. The mock charges against this alleged CIA officials that even the national government there refused to ask extradition on even though they had been convicted In absentia the case was that bad. And of course the railroad job previously done on Ms. knox.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
This is double jeopardy in the US which is not allowed by the US Constitution.

Doesn't that cover Roman Polanski ?

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 11):
I think she's guilty as sin, but also that any government should only get one opportunity to try somebody for a crime.

Well that's the US system. In other countries both parties can appeal, whether the decision is innocence or guilt. In France it is quite new (last 10 or 15 years) before that none could appeal for criminal trials (the ones with a jury).



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4636 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
No, it is not. It is a normal appeal, else her temporary release from prison would have been double jeopardy as well

In Italy, maybe, However they were aquitted AND released from prison by the Appeals court in Italy. In the US. You can't stand trial twice for the same crime. It is double jeopardy.

I understand Italy has different rules, but the way this is regarded in the US is still double jeopardy. Either way after the geologist fiasco, if I was innocent I wouldn't return voluntarily to Italy for a retrial



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Aesma,

roman Polanski was convicted and fled before sentencing. But for a child molester (statutory rape) that probably is par for the course.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 13):
That's a double 'no'. The prosecutor can appeal against any decision made by a court that appears to violate judicature, and Mrs Knox wasn't found innocent, even though she's considered to be innocent.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Well that's the US system. In other countries both parties can appeal, whether the decision is innocence or guilt. In France it is quite new (last 10 or 15 years) before that none could appeal for criminal trials (the ones with a jury).

Congratulations...but I fundamentally disagree with that and would not like to see our government send a US citizen to Italy to be tried for the same crime again after an acquittal.

For the same reason I understand and concur when other countries who disagree with our system (ie capital punishment) likewise refuse to extradite people to the US.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Doesn't that cover Roman Polanski ?

No, different situation. He was found guilty but fled the US because he feared the judge was going to reneg on a plea agreement. I don't know who was legally right or wrong in that case but it's not strictly a 'double jeopardy' issue.

On a side note, I'd like to go on record to say that Roman Polanski is a douche for admitting to having sex with a 13-year old girl in a plea bargain in the first place. If it were my daughter, the courts would be least of his concerns!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27033 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

I actually think that she should not be extradited by the USA if requested by Italy. I don't believe in the Italian justice system to give her a fair trial. They had the chance they ruled and it should be case closed.

There are also plenty of times I think EU countries should not extradite to the USA too.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1388 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Don't they already have a guy in jail for this murder? What's the question here? Were they supposed to be in it together?


If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7958 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
In the US. You can't stand trial twice for the same crime. It is double jeopardy.

When you were found innocent, you can't stand trial for the same crime again, that's right. Talks in American media about double jeopardy being non-existent in Italy is bull I am pretty sure, even though I do not really know Italy's judicial standards. It is just that the case wasn't closed in Mrs Knox' case.

edit:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 20):
Don't they already have a guy in jail for this murder? What's the question here? Were they supposed to be in it together?

Yes and - apparently - yes.

[Edited 2013-03-26 10:38:05]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
NoUFO

I am thinking of that EA-6B crew that Italian officials didn't want to follow the existing SOFA on. particulaly the two backs eaters.

Well if an Italian military plane had done something similar in the US I'm sure the US public would be fine if the crew went home with no questions asked.

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 18):
No, different situation. He was found guilty but fled the US because he feared the judge was going to reneg on a plea agreement. I don't know who was legally right or wrong in that case but it's not strictly a 'double jeopardy' issue.

He wasn't found guilty as there was no trial. There was a plea, he did the time. If something else happens after that I don't see how it's not double jeopardy.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 22):
He wasn't found guilty as there was no trial. There was a plea, he did the time. If something else happens after that I don't see how it's not double jeopardy.

He willingly agreed to be convicted of a lesser offense, expecting a lighter punishment. I don't know enough about his specific plea agreement to say whether what the judge was planning to do in 1978 was legal or not.

[Edited 2013-03-26 11:56:57]

User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4636 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 21):
It is just that the case wasn't closed in Mrs Knox' case.

But it was closed. The appeals court aquitted her. She walked out without handcuffs and was set free. You don't get a redo in the USA. The Italians will rerun their case, but I don't think their is anything else compelling. The defense mishandled the evidence, and in the very realest sense, there was no real motive.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
25 Ken777 : As soon as the not guilty result was delivered by a jury and accepted by the lower court judge then any further actions by other courts against her i
26 NoUFO : From what I understand it wasn't because the prosecutor challenged the acquittal in due time. Mrs Knox acquittal was, to my knowledge, never a final
27 GDB : While the Italian justice system can appear chaotic, slow, even eccentric, they do not carry out judicial murder, including of, inevtiably, innocent
28 Aesma : From wikipedia : Both the defendant and the prosecutor can appeal against the judgement before the Corte d'Appello (Court of Appeals), that will retry
29 zckls04 : Yes- you're right. I misread the details of the original trial. I hope they don't extradite her TBH (even though I believe she's guilty, based on lud
30 casinterest : I disagree strongly. To go is not in her best interests. Sacrifice more time on a wild goose chase because the Prosecutors want to prove that their f
31 vikkyvik : Out of curiosity, what would that do, except for escalate people's emotions and have them calling for blood? I don't think anyone's forgotten about h
32 OA260 : The extradition treaty between the USA and Italy apparently says that once found innocent they cant extradite. I guess its case closed.
33 GDB : You are probably right. The interests of justice, for the Kercher family however, is a different matter. I agree about that, up to a point. Turn it a
34 casinterest : Guede is already in prison for the murder . They have their justice. The DNA, and footprint in the blood matched him. However the Prosecutors and pol
35 slider : Agree....but you never know how insane our State Dept will be given the past several years. That is one seriously F'ed up justice system.
36 falstaff : He still needs to serve his time for his conviction. If he returned to the USA he wouldn't be retried, as his conviction still stands. He plead guilt
37 GDB : Maybe it is, OJ Simpson was mentioned, what to say about a system however that appears a lot of the time to be a branch of the 'infotainment' industr
38 vikkyvik : That's fine, but my opinion on what I said wouldn't change. It's a confusing thing for me sometimes (and to be fair, I've never been in this situatio
39 Aesma : To each their own. The French system is pretty similar (both having roots in ancient Rome) and if it has its flaws, I'm glad we mostly don't have ple
40 3DoorsDown : Trust me, not ALL Americans think she's innocent. No. I think it was a shot at Italians. Or at least their justice system.
41 mham001 : That is true only if one wanted to see it that way.
42 Post contains images Flighty : I think she's guilty. Good looking, though.
43 flyguy89 : This whole debate makes no difference though as far as extradition is concerned. We have to remember that numerous differences exist between the civi
44 Post contains images Pellegrine : She is so guilty. I think she is guilty as sin. I also agree with this. It was some weird drunk group sex that turned bad. Very bad. I'm sure all the
45 AR385 : She is attractive, sure. Unfairly treated? She lived like royalty in her cell. Having an entire one for herself. She had niceties as freshly ground c
46 Smittyone : I believe this too, but admit that it is only based on the most superficial data points since (we don't get to see the real evidence that goes in fro
47 Post contains images scbriml : I bet nobody would think she's innocent if she weighed 250lbs and looked like the back-end of a bus.
48 casinterest : Sure, but who are you going to pin it on. Knox and boyfriend who were so stoned they don''t recall anything and called the cops , or the guy's who's
49 KiwiRob : She should do Playboy.
50 falstaff : He was expecting probation but he feared the judge would change his mind so he left. It still makes him a fugitive because he never served his senten
51 Smittyone : I may be mentally ill, but after reading this thread all I could think of was: Fox Socks Box Knox Knox in box. Fox in socks. Knox on fox in socks in b
52 canoecarrier : Regardless of whether or not a-net has mentioned Meredith Kercher's name, she has been mentioned frequently in the US media...since this all started.
53 Smittyone : True, which takes us back to:
54 canoecarrier : Since she got back to my town, she's been incognito. Other than a few pictures immediately after she returned I couldn't tell you what she's doing no
55 Ken777 : That's one big factor in barring a retrial after a Not Guilty verdict. There are plenty of innocent people who have been faced with massive legal bil
56 GDB : Maybe Knox and family did need the money, I don't know, the whole soap opera style media circus, not just confined to the Knox case, I find reprehens
57 canoecarrier : There's no maybe about it. They were broke. Her family were only able to travel back and forth to Italy because a family friend worked for an airline
58 Post contains images StarAC17 : Depends, in the event of a mistrial IIRC the defendant can be re-tried given new evidence or perhaps the selection of a new jury if both sides agree.
59 flyguy89 : I think it mainly just comes from ignorance in people on both sides not realizing the two operate under fundamentally different legal systems. It goe
60 canoecarrier : Its not like the Italians don't know there are problems with their legal system. When Bernie Madoff was sentenced the Italian newspaper Corriere della
61 Pellegrine : If multiple people commit murder, you pin it on everybody! If in the US you were on trial for murder, marijuana use is no defense, in fact it would m
62 GDB : Is there no kind of , what we call legal aid in the US? People travel far more and with greater frequency than ever before, so inevitably more cases
63 Smittyone : True, but countries routinely base their extradition decisions on what awaits their citizens on the other end. For instance, countries that are again
64 casinterest : You can pin it on everyone, but you have to have the evidence. The prosecution lacks it. Remember Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt ? The courts will
65 Post contains images flyguy89 : Where the crime was committed doesn't matter though in this instance. In acting to extradite her back to Italy for a trial that is illegal under US l
66 bhill : Yep, we had a war over here...one of the reasons was the abuse of the State...Double Jeopardy was written into our Constitution for this very reason a
67 Post contains images vikkyvik : ....then it's not double jeopardy.
68 rfields5421 : In the US, at least in Texas, the person who actually committed the murder is too often able to get a plea deal for a life sentence, and testify agai
69 Post contains links bhill : Rfields5421.."All the Italian courts have done in this latest ruling - is to apply the US standard to Amanda Knox - that her case be remanded back to
70 babybus : Well if she is retried I hope both parties have sorted out their stories and found solid evidence. From reading the newspapers (unreliable sources I k
71 KiwiRob : Have you seen some of the models they have in the mag without make-up and lighting, she's easily as attractive.
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