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White Australia.. Revisionist History ..  
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5692 posts, RR: 44
Posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2314 times:
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White Australia.. Revisionist History .. is there an end to the BS??

Australia's multicultural broadcaster is currently running a series called "Immigration Nation" , ostensibly about the many and varied migrants that were the basis of the modern Australia.

More likely a PC rewrite and apologist feel good look at the past

In the early part of the 20th century the Australian parliament passed a number of laws regarding the "racial purity" of the new country, These laws did no credit to the new country nor did they acknowledge the contribution made to the fledgling nation by those from Asia and the "Pacific Islands"

The young Australia and her prime minister Billy Hughes took advantage of the post WW1 conference at Versailles to promote a "racial purity" platform and have it included in the charter of the League of Naions(with the tacit but cowardly back room support of GB and USA) this motion passes to the disgust of emerging superpower Japan.

None of the above reflects well on Australia, the UK, the USA or any other supporters but that is where the revisionists step in.

There were academics from Australia and decidedly biased ones from Japan that were quite happy to place the blame for Japan's Imperialist and expansionist, (indeed genocidal) policies of the 1920s & '30s on the slight that Japan felt at the actions of then minor power Australia.

Damn it, Imperial Japan was and modern Japan is, if racist is an unacceptable term, one of, if not the most racially exclusively nations on the planet.. to say that Australia's immigration policies are were to blame for the Jaapanese outrages of the 1920-40's is absurd
I am not arguing in favour of this policy, now or in the past, I do have a problem with my tax dollars being used to promote the lie.


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
Imperial Japan was and modern Japan is, if racist is an unacceptable term, one of, if not the most racially exclusively nations on the planet.. to say that Australia's immigration policies are were to blame for the Jaapanese outrages of the 1920-40's is absurd

Japan will remain with its collective identity complexes whilst it remains in denial about it imperialist past and associated atrocities which count as the worst in magnitude in WWII (they killed millions of Chinese and Koreans, more than rivalling Germany in the Holocaust). It is official education policy in Japan to cast itself as 'victim' of European Imperialism and US nuclear aggression; when I question my colleagues there on Korea, they happily announce they were 'invited' by a nation terrified of European Colonial intentions. This is now, in the 21st century!! It is cowardly and shameful. Australian academics are clowns to back this flimsy attempt at trendy revisionism.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
Damn it, Imperial Japan was and modern Japan is, if racist is an unacceptable term, one of, if not the most racially exclusively nations on the planet..

Is there a problem with that? In many countries immigration really hasn't worked very well, loads of social problems, racial tension, and in many cases the creation of an under class. Norway is a fairly good example of this, top of the heap are the ethnic Norwegians, next white immigrants (me) and bottom of the heap the Pakistani and non white refugees.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5692 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2143 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 2):
Is there a problem with that? In many countries immigration really hasn't worked very well,

Actually I don't have much of a problem at all.
My issue was the tone of the program and the academics( not just the Japanese ones) on the show placing the blame for the Japanese atocities and warmongering of the 30's-40's on the offence the Japanese had taken to the "White Australia" laws and Racial purity issues at the Versaille conference.

Revisionist garbage! ( a process the Japanese have raised to an art form! )



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2115 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):

White Australia.. Revisionist History .. is there an end to the BS??

Australia's multicultural broadcaster is currently running a series called "Immigration Nation" , ostensibly about the many and varied migrants that were the basis of the modern Australia.

The program hasn't reached here yet, but I looked at the website and found this description of it:

"When the Commonwealth of Australia was founded in 1901, the very last thing the nation wanted to be was multicultural. The measures taken to ensure this would be the case not only caused great human suffering, but in a supreme historical irony, actually helped create the very threat Australia feared the most - invasion from the Asian north.

I assume it is the last part of that you disagree with (because the first part is so blatantly true) and I agree, I would, too, mostly because it would grossly exaggerate Australia's standing in Japanese eyes at the time. But without hearing the arguments put forward by the academics, it's difficult to know.

Revisionism in itself isn't a bad thing, it depends on the revisionist is trying to achieve - a transference of blame/guilt (bad revisionism) or an arrival at a truth (good revisionism).

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 2):
In many countries immigration really hasn't worked very well, loads of social problems, racial tension, and in many cases the creation of an under class.

I arrived in Australia before the end of the White Australia policy, and I promise you, immigration has done wonders for that country. Same-same in New Zealand.

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-27 18:40:59]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
White Australia.. Revisionist History .. is there an end to the BS??

Australia's multicultural broadcaster is currently running a series called "Immigration Nation" , ostensibly about the many and varied migrants that were the basis of the modern Australia.

Doesn't sound as if you've actually watched the program in question before passing summary judgment.

Just for the record, by the way: Even the "aboriginal" inhabitants of Australia before the arrival of european immigrants and colonizers had actually immigrated – just several ten thousand years earlier.

So at least from a human point of view, the title "immigration nation" is completely and entirely correct.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
I arrived in Australia before the end of the White Australia policy, and I promise you, immigration has done wonders for that country. Same-same in New Zealand.

Depends on who you let in, tbh I don't think NZ benefited much from Polynesian immigration.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1979 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
Depends on who you let in, tbh I don't think NZ benefited much from Polynesian immigration.

Since I wasn't around before Polynesians arrived in New Zealand, I have no idea of the effect of their arrival.

I've heard the stories, of course, but since there is no written record of it, I have no idea how much of that is true and how much is hearsay - or invented by the later migrants to justify their own actions. And I don't think the arrival of the white migrants was an unalloyed joy for Maori.

Was the arrival of the Aboriginals a "bad thing" for Australia? It's arguable, I suppose, but the movement of peoples has been unstoppable throughout the history of mankind and I suppose the purist view would be that homo sapiens should never have left Africa.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13086 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

In the USA, we have our own sorry restrictions on immigration for generations, especially to keep out all but white Europeans. Asians, mainly Chinese at first in the 1860's then almost all south Asians were under very tight restrictions to be able to immigrate to the USA from the mid-1960. Immigration from Africa was mainly from the slave trade or after the Civil war the Caribbean. We also had to change our whole attitudes toward our aboriginal peoples (the poorly named 'Indians') since the mid-1960.

For Australia, the need to admit to the 'White Australia' policy and for a 'revisionist' one, is probably due to the dominance of trade with China and South Asian countries that has developed over the last 20-30 years, especially mineral wealth, when before it was with UK and Commonwealth countries. It also recognizes the modern diversity of Australia including of non-European people and the need for all to believe they are part of the same country, working for the common good.


User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 8):
For Australia, the need to admit to the 'White Australia' policy and for a 'revisionist' one, is probably due to the dominance of trade with China and South Asian countries that has developed over the last 20-30 years, especially mineral wealth, when before it was with UK and Commonwealth countries. It also recognizes the modern diversity of Australia including of non-European people and the need for all to believe they are part of the same country, working for the common good.

What is new about Australia and the White Australia policy - I was taught about it as a bad thing in the 1970s, just around the time of the talking up of multiculturalism.

Immigration nation was first on last year some time, and I recall it being a bit lightweight but by no means revisionist.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5692 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1863 times:
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Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 9):
What is new about Australia and the White Australia policy - I was taught about it as a bad thing in the 1970s, just around the time of the talking up of multiculturalism.

Immigration nation was first on last year some time, and I recall it being a bit lightweight but by no means revisionist.

I think I have been misunderstood, I did not mean to imply there was a revisionist stand on the White Australia Policy or the Racial purity Bill, they were presented in all their reprehensible fullness.
The issue with the program that I saw was the theory of some academics that the shameful conduct of Imperial Japan from the '20s thru the '40s was in some way the fault of Australia and her immigration policies.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12499 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1852 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
I don't think NZ benefited much from Polynesian immigration

Aside from the rugby field?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5692 posts, RR: 44
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1842 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
I don't think NZ benefited much from Polynesian immigration.

The first wave in the 2nd half of the 13th Century or the later wave in the 2nd half of the 20th and early 21st Century?



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

This is not possible. According to multiple forum members in threads dealing with Argentina over the years (including recent ones), former British colonies do not commit the atrocities and carried out the racist policies of the Argentine government in the 19th century against the natives and in only fostering "white" immigration. That's only an argentine cultural thing.


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5692 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
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Derico, what is this about??


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1779 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 10):
The issue with the program that I saw was the theory of some academics that the shameful conduct of Imperial Japan from the '20s thru the '40s was in some way the fault of Australia and her immigration policies.

It's a point of view.

I disagree with it for the reasons given above - it inflates Australia's importance to Japan at that time - but certainly Australia was attacked by Japan, at Darwin and the attempted mini-sub raids in Sydney Harbour. And there have always been rumours, never confirmed, of a Japanese landing on Cape York.

I could handle a bit more revisionism in some instances. When the Japanese attacked PNG, the line at Kokoda was initially held by two hundred boys - average age less than 18 years - members of the CMF, who stopped the Japanese advance for the first time.

Those young men, not professional soldiers, held the line for two weeks before reinforcements got to them. Heroes, you might think. But when they came out they were branded by MacArthur as cowards - chocolate soldiers - because they did not push the Japanese back.

Several historians are aware of this, but MacArthur's view has seldom been publicly corrected.

History isn't always what we are told it is and - I think - it is important to listen to the revisionists, because sometimes they have a some points. I think the Holocaust Deniers are talking unadulterated bull dust, but I have to listen to what they're saying to find out why it is bull dust and in that process I have learned a few things - usually about the Deniers.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 11):
Aside from the rugby field?

some say that's not been positive, island kids get bigger faster than maori and white kids, puts a lot of kids off the game, they kid tired of having the crap kicked out of them when they are little so give up playing.


User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
modern Japan is, if racist is an unacceptable term, one of, if not the most racially exclusively nations on the planet..

The White Australia policy is part of history. Australia now has one of the world's most liberal immigration policies.

Japan, on the other hand, maintains a racist immigration policy that to this day is far worse than Australia's ever was. Why does the world tolerate this from Japan? Is it because the Japanese are non-white?

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
I arrived in Australia before the end of the White Australia policy, and I promise you, immigration has done wonders for that country. Same-same in New Zealand.

What's your opinion on Japanese immigration? Should they similarly hurl their doors open to immigration as Australia did?



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1643 times:
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Quoting yyz717 (Reply 17):
What's your opinion on Japanese immigration? Should they similarly hurl their doors open to immigration as Australia did?

What happened in Australia was a conscious act, the country had to populate or perish, and one of the keys to it was the massive Snowy River Hydro-electric scheme - they weren't getting enough skilled migrant workers from the "traditional sources."

Australia understood that the society would change - that white Australia would disappear - and in fanciful moments, I could argue that the Sydney Opera House was the memorial that they built to that society.

The result was remarkable. The first waves (of southern Italians and Greeks) bore the brunt of it, disparaged and called "wogs" - but accepted as necessary. When the second waves started to arrive (Lebanon, e.g.) it was their turn to be called "wogs" - but by the Italians and Greeks, who now regarded themselves as settled Australians. The second wave, in turn, turned on the next wave, the Vietnamese, when they arrived, and so on.

There were issues, of course, there were confrontations, some minor, some violent, and while there are still far too many racists in Australia, I look back on it as a surprisingly successful integration.

I don't know if that could happen in Japan. Perhaps the Japanese might be still so beguiled by their own image of themselves, they aren't ready to move away from that, to accept, as Australia had to, that they need the new energy of outsiders.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 17):
What's your opinion on Japanese immigration? Should they similarly hurl their doors open to immigration as Australia did?

Mariners opinion doesn't matter, if the Japs don't want it immigration shouldn't be forced on them.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1577 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
Mariners opinion doesn't matter, if the Japs don't want it immigration shouldn't be forced on them.

No-one's opinion "matters" - other than the Japanese - but of course Japan should not be "forced" into throwing open the doors.

I don't think Japan should not be "forced" into expanding its rather pitiful refugee re-settlement program, despite being a signatory to the UN Protocol on the Re-settlement of Refugees. They'll take what they think they can handle, which isn't very many:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/200...fugees-so-why-so-few/#.UViQOL8ii-8

"Japan is obliged to accept refugees, so why so few?

According to the Immigration Bureau, 4,882 asylum-seekers have applied for refugee status in Japan since 1982.

However, only 410 have been granted refugee status, including 145 from Myanmar. In 2006, the total number of recognized refugees was 34, of which 28 were from Myanmar, out of a total of 954 applicants. No Kurd has gained the status."


But why does that limit discussion of the merits - or otherwise - of something that affects the community of nations?

http://www.refugeeservices.org.nz/re...es_and_new_zealand/quota_programme

"Of the 135 countries that have signed the UN Convention on the Status of Refugees, nine governments currently host the bulk of the refugees who are annually resettled in new countries: Australia, Canada, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden and the USA."

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-31 12:57:12]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 14 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
However, only 410 have been granted refugee status, including 145 from Myanmar. In 2006, the total number of recognized refugees was 34, of which 28 were from Myanmar, out of a total of 954 applicants. No Kurd has gained the status."

So few apply, why go to Japan, I guess most probably want to head for an English speaking country or one with a good welfare system. Which matches the countries you mentioned below.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Australia, Canada, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden and the USA."

Funny you should mention Finland, I've been there a few times, it's got to be the whitest country on earth, seeing a dark skinned person is a bit of an event.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 11 hours ago) and read 1497 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
So few apply, why go to Japan, I guess most probably want to head for an English speaking country or one with a good welfare system. Which matches the countries you mentioned below.

Of the nine countries listed, only three are English language, and Japan has an excellent welfare system - once you're in.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7292 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 11 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

So which one doesn't speak English, Australia, Canada, New Zealand or the US? You can easily live in any of the other 5 speaking English only.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 1480 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
You can easily live in any of the other 5 speaking English only.

LOL - I've had trouble in Finland speaking only English (and French, Spanish and a bit of German), and I wasn't trying to work there, or live there.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 KiwiRob : I've been living in Norway for over 6 years and speak terrible Norwegian, I'd be lucky to need it once a month, I find the Danes, Swedes, Finns and Du
26 mariner : Mayhap. I can only give you my experience. And I'm fairly literate, fairly well-schooled. I'm not trying to do the sort of lower level jobs that refu
27 fridgmus : Of the few native Japanese I know, none of them acknowledge the war crimes of WWII. Especially "The Rape of Nanking". And yes, I know the US is far fr
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