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Elderly Congressman Calls Farm Workers "Wetbacks"  
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12333 posts, RR: 25
Posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21976584 says:

Quote:

The Republican congressman representing the state of Alaska has apologised for using a word considered derogatory to Hispanic workers in a radio interview.

Don Young, 79, said he "meant no disrespect" when he referred to Hispanic labourers on the California farm where he grew up as "wetbacks".

...

During a discussion on a local radio station of the US labour market on Thursday, Mr Young said of his father's farm: "We used to have 50-60 wetbacks to pick tomatoes."

"It takes two people to pick the same tomatoes now. It's all done by machine," he added.

In a statement later, the 21-term congressman said: "I know that this term is not used in the same way nowadays" even though it was in common use when he was a child.

This dude is way out of touch.

IMHO he should consider immediate retirement.


Inspiration, move me brightly!
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

So are all the left wing nuts who call George Bush a Nazi... it's runs in circles my friend.


Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3080 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

I don't care what side you're on, what views you hold, or how you perform... nobody should be allowed to serve 21 terms. Perhaps this will be the nail in his coffin.


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Now that I agree with.. The single largest issue our country has is not having term limits for the House, Senate and Supreme court. Member's of Congress should get average pay and no lifetime benefits once they leave.


Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2246 times:
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Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
So are all the left wing nuts who call George Bush a Nazi... it's runs in circles my friend.

Apart from people saying stupid thing on both ends..

The GOP is falling over itself to appeal to Hispanics..

When "left wing nuts" called GWB a Nazi - they did not want to appeal to the Germans..

That the difference: This guy is insulting the very people that the GOP wants to appeal to.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

I'm not saying its right to call them that publicly; however, there is a huge double standard in the media between what the left can say and get away with compared to the right.


Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2226 times:
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Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 5):
however, there is a huge double standard in the media between what the left can say and get away with compared to the right.

No there is not. The story here is not "politician says stupid things" - the story is the irony that he is insulting the very people that the GOP wants to appeal to and how that flies in the face with recent problems that the GOP is having



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):

When "left wing nuts" called GWB a Nazi - they did not want to appeal to the Germans..

Kinda funny - leftists calling GWB a statist socialist...

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):
That the difference: This guy is insulting the very people that the GOP wants to appeal to.

I don't know about you, but part of my family lived in Texas and grew up in the early 20th century using such language. I never heard the term used in a mean manner - I always heard the term to generally mean people who both a) crossed the border in perhaps not the most legal prescribed way, and b) would work their butts off for relatively little pay. Their willingness to work hard was always respected. The attitudes of my grandparents was "yeah, they are illegal, but they work hard and they must really be poor at home to come work for these wages, so we feel sorry for them". Of course that was long before they numbered over 10 million strong... It was not meant as an insulting term, like, let's say, "Jiggaboo", which can only be interpreted in one way.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2214 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
early 20th century
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
I never heard the term used in a mean manner -
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
It was not meant as an insulting term

Sorry to tell you, the early 20th Century was a long time ago. I honestly do not think that Mr Young (at 79 years old) meant it as an insult.

However, it highlights the "old" "white" problem that the GOP has - That's the story here.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
However, it highlights the "old" "white" problem that the GOP has - That's the story here.

I think it has more to do with the "new" "intolerant" to me.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2205 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
I think it has more to do with the "new" "intolerant" to me.

You now consider Bohener intolerant? He had harsh words for the Gentleman from Alaska.

John Boehner the Intolerant. I must remember that one  

""Congressman Young’s remarks were offensive and beneath the dignity of the office he holds," Boehner said. "I don’t care why he said it -- there’s no excuse and it warrants an immediate apology."'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n-boehner-don-young_n_2979277.html



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

As one of his constuants i am still trying wrap my head around the thread title of him as, "Elderly"

I doubt he is going anywhere anytime soon. He has always enjoyed the support of the native corperations up here.

This is par for the course. Besides we can't get rid of somebody who was willing to threaten an interior department facist with an Oosik.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):

This dude is way out of touch.

IMHO he should consider immediate retirement.

At 79, anyone should be considering that. Although I do get what you're saying.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):

So are all the left wing nuts who call George Bush a Nazi...

Crap, that's confusing. Which one is that meant to insult?

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 2):

I don't care what side you're on, what views you hold, or how you perform... nobody should be allowed to serve 21 terms.

Seriously, I'll buy that. 21 terms and you're not a Senator, you're an Arch - Duke.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
It was not meant as an insulting term, like, let's say, "Jiggaboo", which can only be interpreted in one way.

Wow. First time I've heard that one in this hemisphere...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
I think it has more to do with the "new" "intolerant" to me.

No, not really. There's a huge (and likely deliberate) misperception that the GOP and right wingers seem to enjoy perpetuating that being tolerant means somehow tolerating intolerance. It doesn't, and never will.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12333 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2177 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
So are all the left wing nuts who call George Bush a Nazi...

I don't see the connection to Nazi-ism. I just go with idiot or dope.

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 2):
nobody should be allowed to serve 21 terms

I believe in term limits and a mandatory retirement age. They wouldn't be necessary in an ideal world, but this is not an ideal world. We see people like Harry Reid (yes, I'm criticizing a Dem...) who are more concerned with the prerogatives of the Senate and the Senators and less concerned with implementing any of the policies he and his party were elected to implement, and that bothers me.

I'd be fine with something like 12 or 18 years, 2-3 senatorial terms, as a max for both Senate and House.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
As one of his constuants i am still trying wrap my head around the thread title of him as, "Elderly"

Dictonary.com gives us:

Quote:

elderly
adjective
1. somewhat old; near old age: a resort for elderly people.
2. of or pertaining to persons in later life.

He doesn't look at all youthful in the picture in the article and I think by 79 one can cope with the title 'elderly', IMHO. Where do you draw the line?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2576 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
I don't know about you, but part of my family lived in Texas and grew up in the early 20th century using such language. I never heard the term used in a mean manner

Tell you what.......travel to East L.A. and call your fellow pedestrians that with a smile on your face.

I think you'll find out you're in the 21st Century.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

This guy's an idiot. His family farm was located in California, so whatever Hispanic workers may have been there probably weren't actually wetbacks. Get that man a map.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8445 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Well to be fair, Young did apologize you know "I'm sorry if I offended you, we don't in the good ole days anymore". Boehner made made say sorry. If the Republicans want to bring Hispanics and other people, why don't they stop being a party of angry old white men and women who reminisce of the great bygone days of America.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
So are all the left wing nuts who call George Bush a Nazi... it's runs in circles my friend.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Kinda funny - leftists calling GWB a statist socialist...

The difference is that the term Nazi/socialist/communist/stalinist/facist etc are not really considered racial slurs. You don't go around calling people wetbacks, the n word, cracker, etc in public settings such as a radio interview.


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2985 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 17):
You don't go around calling people wetbacks, the n word, cracker, etc in public settings such as a radio interview.

Especially, as has been said, when you are trying to appeal to that same people.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8187 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
I don't know about you, but part of my family lived in Texas and grew up in the early 20th century using such language.

I spent the 50's in Texas and, yes, it was a common term at the time - and it wasn't delivered in a demeaning manner most of the time.

So we've gone from "Wetback" to "Illegals" to "Undocumented" - and maybe something in-between.

But "african Americans" have also gone through different phrases. When I was young it was "Colored People", then "Negro", then "Black" and now African American, which IMO has too many syllables.

Basically you cal pretty well guess a person's age range by which terms he or she uses.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
Sorry to tell you, the early 20th Century was a long time ago.

Just a little over 13 years ago.

A long time ago was something like 1969 when man first walked on the moon.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
However, it highlights the "old" "white" problem that the GOP has - That's the story here.

The GOP in this century is only about money. Cutting taxes for the wealthiest individuals and companies regardless of the costs to the country or those in "lower economic situations". They could care less about equal rights, immigration reform or gay marriage outside of how it impacts their ability to achieve their financial related goals.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Just a little over 13 years ago.

A long time ago was something like 1969 when man first walked on the moon.

No, 13 years ago was the end of the late 20th century, and the beginning of the 21st century. I don't know what you would consider the cutoff between early and mid 20th century to be, but it is certainly older than 1969.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13033 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

It is sad when a member of Congress uses such an obsolete and offensive term in this day an age. At 79, he is really to old to be a member of congress, he could retire now and live very well on his pension. No problem that a conservative R would replace him, so no loss there. I have long advocated that there should be a maximum age one can be in elected or appointed office, for example many states cap serving as a Judge to age 70-75.

User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Hmm....I wonder why this one escaped the conversation?

http://news.yahoo.com/rep-bruce-bral...ics.html?bcmt_s=m#ugccmt-container

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):
The GOP is falling over itself to appeal to Hispanics..

Well,we just didn't understand the ultra liberal playbook of illegal is legal under Obama and his state media..We got it right now.Thanks.In 2014 we will control the Senate and the POTUS in 2016.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
However, it highlights the "old" "white" problem that the GOP has - That's the story here.

As oppose to ultra liberal extremists hijacking the democratic party.Read the DOMA act of 1996 and the democrats reaction.Talk about flip-flop from a bunch "old" white folks who are still in place with the demos,wow!We just need to learn that art.And didn't Obama from the first term?

[Edited 2013-03-29 18:23:29]


Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
But "african Americans" have also gone through different phrases. When I was young it was "Colored People", then "Negro", then "Black" and now African American, which IMO has too many syllables.

African American seems odd to me because it makes them sound foreign. Many of their families have been here longer than mine but I don't consider myself European American.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
The GOP in this century is only about money.

Be nice if it was, they'd be better liked.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
They could care less about equal rights, immigration reform or gay marriage outside of how it impacts their ability to achieve their financial related goals.

I am totally behind that platform. I have enough actual problems of my own to not want to take on everyone else's issues, which is what liberals seem interested in doing.

Quoting Polot (Reply 20):
I don't know what you would consider the cutoff between early and mid 20th century to be, but it is certainly older than 1969.

From an American perspective, I think you'd have to say the end of the Cold War.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):

Hmm....I wonder why this one escaped the conversation?

Because it was a term that referenced a sad event in history in reference to a sports loss and not a derogatory slur on a bunch of people that the GOP is trying to court. It was a dumb statement, but at least not a derogatory term.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
African American seems odd to me because it makes them sound foreign

It always strikes me as odd, as people from many parts of that Continent, do not meet the acceptable skin coloring to qualify.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1955 times:
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Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
Thanks.In 2014 we will control the Senate and the POTUS in 2016.

Mr Rassmusen? Mr Rove? Who is this?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12333 posts, RR: 25
Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1924 times:

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
Well,we just didn't understand the ultra liberal playbook of illegal is legal under Obama and his state media..

Obama ultra liberal? LOL! You should go out and meet some hard-left liberals some day and find out how pissed they are about Obama.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
We got it right now.

Not much evidence of that. See the CPAC thread.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
Thanks.In 2014 we will control the Senate

It'd take a miracle.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
and the POTUS in 2016.

Depends on who you get to run. Dems have the real problem of being in charge too long and putting up an aging/aged traditionalist like Biden or Hillary. They need to find the next Obama.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
As oppose to ultra liberal extremists hijacking the democratic party.

If so, they're doing a piss poor job of it. Gitmo still opened, Patriot Act not repealed, no single payer system for medicine, military still in Afghanistan, etc.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
I have enough actual problems of my own to not want to take on everyone else's issues, which is what liberals seem interested in doing.

The issue is you can't just ignore things you don't personally care about and expect to have a functioning and thus productive society.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
Quoting Polot (Reply 20):
I don't know what you would consider the cutoff between early and mid 20th century to be, but it is certainly older than 1969.

From an American perspective, I think you'd have to say the end of the Cold War.

Early 20th: everything before WWII
Mid 20th: WWII - Vietnam
Late 20th: Watergate - Bubba-gate



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1876 times:
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Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
So are all the left wing nuts who call George Bush a Nazi.

So it is settled then. Don Young is a right-wing nut.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
I wonder why this one escaped the conversation?

Because this isn't the NYT and we don't believe in the absolute necessity to find an equal amount of bad deeds on both sides lest we be accused of taking one!

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
Well,we just didn't understand the ultra liberal playbook of illegal is legal under Obama

Well, if you call having the biggest border security budget ever and the highest number of extraditions of illegals ultra liberal policies, you're not getting it still and this is why...

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22):
In 2014 we will control the Senate and the POTUS in 2016.

made me laugh...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 28, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 27):
Well, if you call having the biggest border security budget

Just because you spend money does not mean you are accomplishing anything.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 27):
the highest number of extraditions of illegals

BS. The reason Obama claims the high number of extraditions is the administration is counting those intercepted at the boarder and returned without any judicial involvement - which used to be not counted as an extradition, which used to be defined as those ordered via a judicial decision.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

I grew up in Southern California in the 70's. I have never heard wetback used in anything but a bad way. When using a term for migrant farm workers it was always the term 'Mexican'.


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineAustinAllison From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1717 times:

It is a term still used in Texas, and maybe you have to be from here to understand its true meaning since it originated here. If someone did illegally immigrate here via the Rio Grande then they are a factually a wetback. It is not a racist or derogatory thing, but rather it is a term coined to designate what the person did to get to the US. Should you say it without knowing a specific person's history? Absolutely not, but if you know the person illegally immigrated via the Rio Grande then the term works.

User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1710 times:

It really shows you how racist a lot of conservative Americans still are. This is prejudice plain and simple. He wouldn't have apologized if he hadn't been caught and embarrassed.


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 30):
If someone did illegally immigrate here via the Rio Grande then they are a factually a wetback.

Shhhh... They did not immigrate illegally. They immigrated without documentation.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 31):
It really shows you how racist a lot of conservative Americans still are.

Please explain to me how it is racist. Do you even know what the term means, or are you simply tossing a grenade into the room?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Reply 33, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
Just because you spend money does not mean you are accomplishing anything.

Yet conservatives want to spend billions of extra dollars on border security (also known as corporate welfare payments to defense contractors) that won't accomplish anything.

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 30):
If someone did illegally immigrate here via the Rio Grande then they are a factually a wetback.

No they aren't. Many cross the Rio Grande in vehicles across bridges. Some uses rafts/boats as well.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 33):
Yet conservatives want to spend billions of extra dollars on border security (also known as corporate welfare payments to defense contractors) that won't accomplish anything.

No, we want to control the border. How much it costs to do that (whether more or less) is completely irrelevant.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1640 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 31):
It really shows you how racist a lot of conservative Americans still are. This is prejudice plain and simple.

Giving welfare and food stamps to a black person costs just as much as doing the same for a white person.

Besides, he's from Alaska. I'm sure he can get together with the dozen Hispanics he represents and talk this out over some chalupas.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 31):
He wouldn't have apologized if he hadn't been caught and embarrassed.

Of course you don't apologize unless you get caught.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 33):
Yet conservatives want to spend billions of extra dollars on border security (also known as corporate welfare payments to defense contractors) that won't accomplish anything.

I don't care much, or at all really, about Jose the fruit picker coming to the US. The economy needs an underclass of cheap labor anyway, lest lettuce prices go through the roof.

That said, border security is important because not everyone's intentions may be so benign.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21513 posts, RR: 55
Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1625 times:

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 30):
It is a term still used in Texas, and maybe you have to be from here to understand its true meaning since it originated here. If someone did illegally immigrate here via the Rio Grande then they are a factually a wetback. It is not a racist or derogatory thing, but rather it is a term coined to designate what the person did to get to the US.

Tip: if you want to try and gain a broader following from a certain ethnic group, trying to convince them that the term they view as racist isn't really racist isn't going to help.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Tip: if you want to try and gain a broader following from a certain ethnic group, trying to convince them that the term they view as racist isn't really racist isn't going to help.

In fact, if you are not careful how you do so then trying to explain it can make you sound more racist than just using the term...


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21513 posts, RR: 55
Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1611 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 37):
In fact, if you are not careful how you do so then trying to explain it can make you sound more racist than just using the term...

Actually, I'm not sure there's any way to try and explain it without sounding more racist.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAustinAllison From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1612 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
Tip: if you want to try and gain a broader following from a certain ethnic group, trying to convince them that the term they view as racist isn't really racist isn't going to help.

Since when could illegal aliens have a say in political matters they have no right being involved? Mexicans in Texas dislike illegal aliens just as much, if not more, as white or black Americans.

Tip: It is not a racist term if it is something that they supposedly created. According to Texas lore, the term was coined by the riverine immigrants to distinguish themselves from others.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21513 posts, RR: 55
Reply 40, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 39):
Tip: It is not a racist term if it is something that they supposedly created.

Keep digging yourself that hole.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is, it matters what theirs is.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 41, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
African American seems odd to me because it makes them sound foreign. Many of their families have been here longer than mine but I don't consider myself European American.

Yeah, I consider themselves just American rather than African American. Like you said, we don't refer to white Americans as European Americans, do we? One term I absolutely hate is "person of color..." it just reeks of PC crap and that overly sensitive garbage that's coming about lately


As for him calling the workers "wetbacks," I do believe that it could once have been used non-insultingly, but I've never heard it that way, and he should have known better. There are parts of South America that refer to US citizens as "gringos" and it is non-offensive in come places, but it would be to us in the US. Sen Young may be in the same boat, who knows, but again, he should have known better


And I am not for age limits, some people become incompetent earlier in life and some people are very competent at a very old age, but I am for term limits... we have them for the President, and despite how great he/she may be, we elect a new one after 2 terms



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24817 posts, RR: 22
Reply 42, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
But "african Americans" have also gone through different phrases. When I was young it was "Colored People", then "Negro", then "Black" and now African American, which IMO has too many syllables.

When I hear the term "African American" used to refer to someone based strictly on their race, I often wonder how the speaker knows that the person they're referring to isn't a visitor from Nigeria, Kenya or Ethiopia etc.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 43, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
When I hear the term "African American" used to refer to someone based strictly on their race, I often wonder how the speaker knows that the person they're referring to isn't a visitor from Nigeria, Kenya or Ethiopia etc.

And never mind people like a friend of mine, White and blue-eyed, born in South Africa and emigrated here some years ago. He's a true African American...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6130 posts, RR: 30
Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1499 times:
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Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 30):
It is a term still used in Texas, and maybe you have to be from here to understand its true meaning since it originated here. If someone did illegally immigrate here via the Rio Grande then they are a factually a wetback. It is not a racist or derogatory thing, but rather it is a term coined to designate what the person did to get to the US. Should you say it without knowing a specific person's history? Absolutely not, but if you know the person illegally immigrated via the Rio Grande then the term works.

I really don´t know which part of Texas you are from, but the parts from where I spent most of my childhood, the term "wetback" was derogatory, insulting and racist. No matter what sort of weird apology you are trying to make for the term, it´s just not true.

The term "gringo" also has a perfectly valid ethimological explanation but it still does not make it fine to referr to a group of Americans as such.

Read again what you wrote. You are saying that if a person immigrated by swimming across the Río Bravo it´s ok to call him/her "wetback." That´s a load of crap. The only time EVER I got called a "wetback" was by an imbecile at ENRON, and he was fired. And I´m sure it was not because he was using the term "incorrectly" as I did not come into the US swimming in.

Apologists for racist slurs...that´s one I have not seen in a while on this site.

[Edited 2013-03-31 20:39:04]


MGGS
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):

Please explain to me how it is racist. Do you even know what the term means, or are you simply tossing a grenade into the room?

"Wetback" is a very specific racist term. If you want to bring it, I will meet you there. I do not stand for racism. If that means tossing a grenade into a room filled with racists, so be it. I stand up for what is right.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):

Giving welfare and food stamps to a black person costs just as much as doing the same for a white person.

Besides, he's from Alaska. I'm sure he can get together with the dozen Hispanics he represents and talk this out over some chalupas.

What does black/white and/or welfare have to do with this. See above.

Additionally, no matter who you represent, if you are disrespectful and prejudiced towards a group of people...you deserve to be called out.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):

Of course you don't apologize unless you get caught.

That statement shows more about your mentality than you even know.


"Wetback" is a racist term, just like "nigger" or "spic" or "slanted-eye" (sic). This is very offensive and anyone who defends this man, or any other who uses terms as such, is very questionable in my eyes.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 45):

"Wetback" is a very specific racist term. If you want to bring it, I will meet you there. I do not stand for racism.

But how is it racist? As far as I know, the only races within the human race are white, black, and asian.

You may call it xenophobic - in which case I would argue that how can one be xenophobic if he's OK with Mexicans who immigrate legally, just not those who sneak across the border? A xenophobe would be against them all, legal or not.

And that is what pisses us off the most about you guys. You call us anti-immigrant, conveniently leaving out the "illegal" component. I'm an immigrant myself - but my arrival was legal. My wife is also an immigrant - we had to go through nearly a year of paperwork but she's legal. Why should we accept people who don't follow the law and come in according to the rules?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAviRaider From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

Ok I'm born and raised in Texas. To the hispanic community it is derogatory and it's understandable, in the white communtiy maybe the black too, I'm not sure, it's generally not meant in a derogatory fashion. In the modern world it's time for that term to end but it's still used a fair amount in Texas.

User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 48, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

79 year old, 42 years in the House. Oligarch all the way. Senile old bat.

GTFO!!!! Wake up Alaskans....ridiculous.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7112 posts, RR: 3
Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
This guy's an idiot.

Can't be too much of an idiot, he's been voted in 21 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
African American seems odd to me because it makes them sound foreign.

It's really no different than Japanese American, Chinese American, Italian American, Polish American or Irish American. I always wondered why Americans like to preface America with a country they have little in common with apart from a surname.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
But how is it racist? As far as I know, the only races within the human race are white, black, and asian.

Really? What definition are you using? Us Census has far more races in their documents. How are you able to justify that a word that is applied by perception of color and job without knowing a person is not racist? It's a crude word for people based on ethnicity and race and has no immediate verifiablilty. The use of it has no other place other than overt racism.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 51, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1332 times:
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Quoting casinterest (Reply 50):
How are you able to justify that a word that is applied by perception of color and job without knowing a person is not racist?

Simple. In his world "Racism" does not exist..



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 52, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 50):
Really? What definition are you using? Us Census has far more races in their documents.

Ethnicity is not the same as race. And in my opinion such questions should be stricken from the Census and all public and private questionnaires. They only serve to reinforce differences. Aren't we supposed to all be Americans? (I'm talking about citizens)

Quoting mt99 (Reply 51):
Simple. In his world "Racism" does not exist..

Please put your fingers in your ears - your brain is leaking.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1299 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 52):
Ethnicity is not the same as race

How do you know their ethnicity by just looking at them?



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 54, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1288 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
And that is what pisses us off the most about you guys. You call us anti-immigrant, conveniently leaving out the "illegal" component. I'm an immigrant myself - but my arrival was legal. My wife is also an immigrant - we had to go through nearly a year of paperwork but she's legal. Why should we accept people who don't follow the law and come in according to the rules?

I agree that people do often go overboard with the anti-immigrant thing when talking about tighter security, but I don't see how that justifies using the term wetback

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 49):
It's really no different than Japanese American, Chinese American, Italian American, Polish American or Irish American.

You don't hear any of those nearly as much as African American. It's white, Asian, Hispanic, but African American (although I've always heard and used "black," and most of the black people I met use that term.)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 55, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 53):
How do you know their ethnicity by just looking at them?

You often can't, and that is a good thing. Dividing people along ethnic and/or racial lines only perpetuates people feeling different from others, fueling resentment etc.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1276 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
But how is it racist?
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 55):
You often can't, and that is a good thing. Dividing people along ethnic and/or racial lines only perpetuates people feeling different from others, fueling resentment etc.

Therefore, wetback when applied to people based on no knowledge other than appearance is racist.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 57, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 45):
Additionally, no matter who you represent, if you are disrespectful and prejudiced towards a group of people...you deserve to be called out.

Then call him out. I don't really care what 79 year old representatives from Alaska think about Hispanics anyway, other than that being openly racist makes it harder to get elected.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 49):
It's really no different than Japanese American, Chinese American, Italian American, Polish American or Irish American. I always wondered why Americans like to preface America with a country they have little in common with apart from a surname.

It's not. I can get it up until about two generations. If your grandparents were born in a foreign country, that can have a significant influence on someone, but probably not further than that.

Jay Leno related the story once of meeting the grandparents of one of his friends and being shocked that they spoke English well.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 58, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1230 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 56):
Therefore, wetback when applied to people based on no knowledge other than appearance is racist.

Are you accusing someone of doing that?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 59, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1206 times:

I almost don't even want to waste my breath, but I am always open to negotiation and finding a common ground.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
But how is it racist? As far as I know, the only races within the human race are white, black, and asian.

'Race' is a human construct, and it is one of the closest labels to human identity. Ergo it is extremely sensitive and subject to personal revelations and life experiences. 'Race' is not just determined by color, it can be differentiated by anatomical features, cultural experiences, ethnicity, geography, linguistics, religion...basically a multitude of factors. Furthermore, 'race' changes based on the location and culture. In America 'race' is very different from Brazil or Asia.

Taxonomically, there is no such thing as 'race', we are all homo sapiens sapiens.

It is a racist slur according to Northern American standards, because it is a specific derogatory term referring to 'brown-skinned' persons of hispanic origin, originally Mexicans.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):
You may call it xenophobic - in which case I would argue that how can one be xenophobic if he's OK with Mexicans who immigrate legally, just not those who sneak across the border? A xenophobe would be against them all, legal or not.

Xenophobia is like "racism light," it is the fear of certain people. It still is indicative of an internal racist ideology based on misunderstanding and ignorance. I call racism just that. Sometimes people need to learn something, but for people who view others with suspicion specifically because of skin color or facial anatomy...that is suspect in and of itself.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 46):

And that is what pisses us off the most about you guys. You call us anti-immigrant, conveniently leaving out the "illegal" component. I'm an immigrant myself - but my arrival was legal. My wife is also an immigrant - we had to go through nearly a year of paperwork but she's legal. Why should we accept people who don't follow the law and come in according to the rules?

The statement "you guys" makes me chuckle. Where did I (or whom I and/or my political views or ideology supposedly represent) call you and/or people 'like you' anything actually? Where did I even say that I am in favor of illegal immigration? This debate has nothing to do with that. I am definitely not.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 57):
Then call him out.

I have zero problem with that.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1147 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 58):
Are you accusing someone of doing that?

??????? This makes no sense. You were asking about why wetback is a racist term.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8787 posts, RR: 24
Reply 61, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 60):
??????? This makes no sense. You were asking about why wetback is a racist term.

You said:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 56):
Therefore, wetback when applied to people based on no knowledge other than appearance is racist.

I am asking you specifically if you were accusing me (or anyone else for that matter) of applying the term "wetback" to people purely based on their appearance.

FYI, If one were to do so, I would agree that it is derogatory and prejudiced. However in my opinion, to be a "wetback", in the old-fashioned sense of the word, you have to have crossed the border illegally. A Mexican of 100% European ethnicity (i.e. not visibly Hispanic) who sneaks accross the border would be a "wetback". A hispanic person who is a legal resident or a citizen of the US would not be a "wetback". Ethnicity or race has nothing to do with it - the question is whether you are an illegal immigrant - the term having originated from the idea that you got wet in the Rio Grande.

So my backhanded accusation in return, as well as to Pellegrine who said,

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 59):
It is a racist slur according to Northern American standards, because it is a specific derogatory term referring to 'brown-skinned' persons of hispanic origin, originally Mexicans.

is that, as is very common nowadays, you are deliberately mischaracterizing the positions of any Republican/Conservative who disagrees with you by, in this case, "throwing the race card". You know perfectly well that Illegal immigration has nothing to do with race, but with following the law - as imperfect as they may be - in fairness to the millions of people around the world who want to come here and are waiting their turn in accordance to the law.

But those who call attention to illegal immigration are immediately called racists in an effort, not to debate, not to correct wrongs or to explain your position, but to throw a grenade in the room and shut debate down, because being called a racist is something that most people will not argue - they either leave, knowing that the accuser is an ideologue who cannot be reasoned with, or they are forced on the defensive (guilty until proven innocent). It is a hateful tactic, unfortunately in common use by the left for a long time.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1122 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 61):
I am asking you specifically if you were accusing me (or anyone else for that matter) of applying the term "wetback" to people purely based on their appearance.

FYI, If one were to do so, I would agree that it is derogatory and prejudiced. However in my opinion, to be a "wetback", in the old-fashioned sense of the word, you have to have crossed the border illegally. A Mexican of 100% European ethnicity (i.e. not visibly Hispanic) who sneaks accross the border would be a "wetback". A hispanic person who is a legal resident or a citizen of the US would not be a "wetback". Ethnicity or race has nothing to do with it - the question is whether you are an illegal immigrant - the term having originated from the idea that you got wet in the Rio Grande.

It is a crude term for "illegal immigrant" There is nothing specifically descriptive about it, in relation to having crossed the Rio Grande. In fact some people can cross the border river without ever touching water, so itn those terms you would have to see the "video" to in fact apply the term.


I was not accusing anyone. I was just saying that this term cannot be used in general random conversation about people without being racist. If you are feeling accused, that is your perogative. Some folks propably used it out of indiffernce or ignorance.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 63, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1123 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 61):
It is a hateful tactic, unfortunately in common use by the left for a long time.

It's also a lazy story used by certain people almost endlessly to justify casual racism. Not saying you're one of them, but it's displayed time and time again on these forums if you look through threads like these. If you call somebody out for saying something obviously racist, it is one of the five classic excuses, the other four being:

"What about this other person that said something racist? You didn't say anything then! Racist!" or

"What about this time a black guy said something racist towards a white person! That means racism is equal on both sides and we should ignore it!" or

"Muslim isn't a race, so it's not racist to say they're all evil!" or

"That's political correctness gone mad!" (my particular favorite because it's utterly meaningless most of the time)

It seems to be very hard for some to accept that racism against minority groups exists and is a serious problem without endlessly qualifying it with "buts" all the time in an attempt to justify the racism in question.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2359 posts, RR: 8
Reply 64, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1026 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 61):
I am asking you specifically if you were accusing me (or anyone else for that matter) of applying the term "wetback" to people purely based on their appearance.

FYI, If one were to do so, I would agree that it is derogatory and prejudiced. However in my opinion, to be a "wetback", in the old-fashioned sense of the word, you have to have crossed the border illegally. A Mexican of 100% European ethnicity (i.e. not visibly Hispanic) who sneaks accross the border would be a "wetback". A hispanic person who is a legal resident or a citizen of the US would not be a "wetback". Ethnicity or race has nothing to do with it - the question is whether you are an illegal immigrant - the term having originated from the idea that you got wet in the Rio Grande.

So my backhanded accusation in return, as well as to Pellegrine who said,

I don't think anyone was specifically accusing you of anything in reading this thread. Your defense of an obviously inflammatory word makes you look suspicious in your intentions though.

There is no need for backhanded accusation.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 61):
you are deliberately mischaracterizing the positions of any Republican/Conservative who disagrees with you by, in this case, "throwing the race card". You know perfectly well that Illegal immigration has nothing to do with race, but with following the law - as imperfect as they may be - in fairness to the millions of people around the world who want to come here and are waiting their turn in accordance to the law.

But those who call attention to illegal immigration are immediately called racists in an effort, not to debate, not to correct wrongs or to explain your position, but to throw a grenade in the room and shut debate down, because being called a racist is something that most people will not argue - they either leave, knowing that the accuser is an ideologue who cannot be reasoned with, or they are forced on the defensive (guilty until proven innocent). It is a hateful tactic, unfortunately in common use by the left for a long time.

Where did I ever talk about illegal immigration, except in response to you? You have tried to change the debate from the heinous use of a disrespectful word, into a debate about left/right, conservative/liberal, illegal immigration, and tactics of race baiting in a philosophical debate.

In addition, this nonsense about "throwing a race card" is just that. Some people always want to talk about a "race card"...last time I checked there were 52 cards in a deck. So it is impossible to bring that one up without bringing up the Jew card, the homosexual card, the poor card, the disabled card, et cetera. The topic is about the use of an offensive word that is connected to a certain group of people whom many identify by racial characteristics.

Do not lump me in with any common tactics by some unknown group of people that you feel so set aback about.



oh boy!!!
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