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North Korea's Military Can't Draw Trajectories  
User currently offlineaircatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 568 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 5371 times:



Watch out America, We have a ruler and we won't hesitate to use it  

98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

Their glorious leader uses a Mac, 'nuff said.



[Edited 2013-03-29 12:55:37]


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 1):
Their glorious leader uses a Mac


What make you think he knows how to use it, it could just be there for decoration!!


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 5 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

He looks good in that suit color, I like how it highlights his hairline.

User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

Is there any way I could acquire one of those hats? They are awesome..


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21691 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting aircatalonia (Thread starter):

"This cake looks papery."

Quoting flanker (Reply 1):
Their glorious leader uses a cheap Chinese knockoff of a Mac

FTFY.


-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 928 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 5191 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 4):
Is there any way I could acquire one of those hats? They are awesome..

The French style or the Russian style?


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 hours ago) and read 5184 times:

Quoting johns624 (Reply 6):

Either, they just look awesome



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 4):
Is there any way I could acquire one of those hats?

The French style hat is called kepi; maybe that helps finding one (but I doubt it).

Quoting aircatalonia (Thread starter):
North Korea's Military Can't Draw Trajectories

And what difference does drawing proper trajectories make?



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineaircatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
And what difference does drawing proper trajectories make?

Well, it makes no difference. It's just that if they were to launch a (hypothetical) missile I don't think it would follow parallel 40 all the way to America. It would fly north, then south, as airplanes do. But, yeah, I don't think they have the weapon 


User currently offlinejet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 5052 times:

I like the three telephones. He couldn't get a multiple line model? It's disappointing that one doesn't have a big red light on it.

That guy is 29 or 30 years old. What a strange, unique life he is going to have to deal with.


User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 5016 times:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...ea-north-war-idUSBRE92T00020130330

More empty threats I bet, I doubt they would have truly any reason to start a war with South.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11672 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months ago) and read 5011 times:

I think I've worked out why the North Korean generals think the US is in range of their missiles. They must have been searching A.net and came across this thread:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/non_aviation/read.main/1111948


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months ago) and read 4999 times:

Once again the wingnuts that run NK are trying to extort China, SK, the USA and the rest of the world to make one sided deals without any human rights changes in their country, to end their exporting of missiles and bomb tech. NK is also deeply involved in the illegal drug trade, using their 'diplomats' to obtain Euros and USD's. I hope their next bomb test ends up landing deep in their capital city and take out their sick leaders.

User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3085 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months ago) and read 4965 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):

The inability to take a joke in that thread, which is all to common on A.net, really is a head shaker. Pathetic really.



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4920 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting johns624 (Reply 6):
The French style or the Russian style?

I like them both... I dig the uniforms too. I wonder what all those ribbons mean. It isn't like the DPRK has been in war after war where a man could earn all those medals.


When the DPRK finally goes away just think of all the neat junk that will be on the surplus market. I remember surplus stores being full of DDR and USSR stuff in the early/mid 1990s. I got me one of the cool Soviet Navy clocks, maybe I could score a North Korean clock for a companion piece one day.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 15):
I wonder what all those ribbons mean.

There's the "I'm over 5 feet tall" medal.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17079 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

What kind of haircut is that? I can't get over that, it looks freaking ridiculous.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
What kind of haircut is that?

The kind you get when Asian people watch The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17079 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4796 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):

The kind you get when Asian people watch The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

Haha, now that you say it.

Didn't his dad have the very same haircut?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 4):
Is there any way I could acquire one of those hats? They are awesome..

Defect. Then get put in a gulag for spying. Then get your arse bombed by us.

http://i47.tinypic.com/14m3rxi.jpg



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6728 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4690 times:

The kepis are a little "fat" (they should be cylindrical) but OK, however the other hats look like inverted mushrooms, I can't take someone wearing that seriously (I find that the oversized ones in Russia are already over the top).


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

All those maps are FAKE big time....
Missile tracks are planned as Great Circle tracks and not Rhumbline (straight) like the one on the maps from the pics.
Any USAF will tell you this concept. Great Cirlce tracks can use Polar routes. They mean the same.
The and phones are similar to these used by the US Presidents:
http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/motorola/sectel/


Secondly, does anyone believe NK has even missiles? NK is one of the poorest countries 2nd to Haiti and you tell me that they can afford to own missiles? Come on....


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21691 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 22):
Secondly, does anyone believe NK has even missiles? NK is one of the poorest countries 2nd to Haiti and you tell me that they can afford to own missiles? Come on....

We know they have missiles. They've test-launched them.

NK is poor because they divert all their money into the military. If they need to induce more poverty to afford a small missile stockpile, they'd have no problem doing it.

Of course they don't really need that many missiles, since their main enemy is South Korea, and artillery will work just fine for that.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4459 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Mir (Reply 23):
NK is poor because they divert all their money into the military. If they need to induce more poverty to afford a small missile stockpile, they'd have no problem doing it.

Recent reports seem to indicate that sanctions are starting to bite even the military. I read in a foreign policy newsletter (sorry, can't recall which, probably Foreign Affairs) that the current increase in tension may have as much to do with the need to find a reason why some army units are not getting sufficient food ration on time, that is because they are too busy prepping and moving into position ahead of a military confrontation.

The army elite is still well fed, of course, but it is a small corps.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Maybe we should train Kim on how to use GCCS mapping tool such as this one.
http://www.disa.mil/Services/Command...-Control/GCCS-J/Technical-Training

But seriously, why he even bother disclosing the missile tracks in the first place. Its in plain view in the background.
Im sorry, but this is mocked up to the bone. If the NK leader wanted to attack the US or SK, then I strongly think that he would be that "dumb" to disclose all the plans from that picture to the media in the first place.

Look, and how come Obama is keeping hush hush about this???
I would have the SEALs pin out his compound and take him out in the head.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 25):
I would have the SEALs pin out his compound and take him out in the head.

That would be bad idea. Much worse than just ignoring him.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 14079 posts, RR: 62
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 24):

Recent reports seem to indicate that sanctions are starting to bite even the military. I read in a foreign policy newsletter (sorry, can't recall which, probably Foreign Affairs) that the current increase in tension may have as much to do with the need to find a reason why some army units are not getting sufficient food ration on time, that is because they are too busy prepping and moving into position ahead of a military confrontation.

The army elite is still well fed, of course, but it is a small corps.

The Chinese apparently got fed up after the last nuke test and really closed the border, even interdicting smuggling.

Jan


User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1876 posts, RR: 10
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting aircatalonia (Thread starter):
North Korea's Military Can't Draw Trajectories

Yes, I realize we're joking here, but unless someone here can read Korean, how do we know it's a trajectory map?

Quoting johns624 (Reply 6):
The French style or the Russian style?

I'm digging the Russian style. Reminds me of General Ourumov from GoldenEye.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 20):
Then get your arse bombed by us.
Quoting wardialer (Reply 25):
I would have the SEALs pin out his compound and take him out in the head.

Did you guys learn diplomacy from Team America: World Police?

Quoting Mir (Reply 23):
Of course they don't really need that many missiles, since their main enemy is South Korea, and artillery will work just fine for that.

Very true. I believe Seoul is only 50kms or so from the DMZ? These missiles are just NK's attempt at intimidation tactics. We all know that a NK missile will never get anywhere near the US.

On that note, I saw Olympus Has Fallen last night. Once you get over the inaccuracies, it's actually a really entertaining movie!



Flying refined.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
There's the "I'm over 5 feet tall" medal.

Ouch!
But with a lot of truth in that joke too.
The huge famines of the 1990's and continuing food shortages have stunted a whole generation of North Koreans.
(Except of course, Kim's gang. Both the boy now nominally leading the country and his late father, don't miss meals).
When you see footage of younger DPRK troops on the DMZ border, their uniforms often seem to be hanging off them. The average North Korean is several inches shorter than his Southern counterpart of the same age.

As for the 'trajectory' maps, a specialist on Korea on the news today reckoned they are merely US airliner route maps, presumably from the web.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4633 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 29):
When you see footage of younger DPRK troops on the DMZ border, their uniforms often seem to be hanging off them. The average North Korean is several inches shorter than his Southern counterpart of the same age.

Supposedly they always assign their tallest and healthiest looking soldiers to the border.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
Supposedly they always assign their tallest and healthiest looking soldiers to the border.

Yes, and so does the south, but by average they are indeed taller.
A 20-year-old from North Korea is about 1.60 m (5.2 ft), a South Korean of the same age is 6 cm taller.

Worse, in the north even babies are often born malnourished, because the mother did not have enough to eat during her pregnancy. And breastfeeding is unpopular in NK, perhaps because it is quite demanding when the woman barely has enough to feed herself, but it doesn't add to the child's health.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
Supposedly they always assign their tallest and healthiest looking soldiers to the border.

True, they also have faked up model villages just over the border as well.

It's likely that again, this whole blood curdling belligerence from the DPRK is about two things.

1, Trying to apply pressure to get more food/economic aid - since that whole 'Juche' self reliance policy from granddaddy has't quite come to fruition yet.

2. The new boy has to show his mettle as much to the military and other centres of power within the government, as the outside world.

Another interesting thing, Seoul has a quite sizable Chinese community living there, a lot of businessmen I'd imagine. Who are in as much danger from any aggression from the North as South Koreans. Given the DPRK's reliance on an increasingly exasperated China, you wonder what they make of all the bellicose rhetoric from Pyongyang.


User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

If hes making these threats of targeting the US, why not charge him with US Fedral law which would be a Felony.
I dont understand why we cannot send FBI agents there and arrest the leader along with his generals??




[Edited 2013-03-30 14:12:02]

[Edited 2013-03-30 14:12:58]

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12523 posts, RR: 35
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

The trouble is, now, that nerves are stretched to breaking point; all it would take would be one North (or indeed South) Korean troops to be too trigger happy or misinterpret something done by the other side. It has become an extremely dangerous situation now; sure, the North may be playing a very high risk poker game (they must be, because they know the consequences of actually going to war), but there are very few, if any, safety nets now.

What if a Korean Air 737 is mistaken for a RoKAF Wedgetail 737 AEW aircraft; the closer they push towards the brink, the greater are the chances of something going terribly wrong and there is no little or no protection against this (not least because the hotline to Seoul has been cut).

The South Korean military may now be discussing its options, which may include pre-emptive strikes against artillery positions. After the Yeongpyeong Island incident last year (?), individual South Korean military units were given much greater freedom to respond directly to provocation. The "Swiss cheese" model comes to mind and now, all the cheeses seem to be lining up ...


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 33):

If hes making these threats of targeting the US, why not charge him with US Fedral law which would be a Felony.
I dont understand why we cannot send FBI agents there and arrest the leader along with his generals??

Last time we wanted to do that we had to invade the whole country.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 34):
What if a Korean Air 737 is mistaken for a RoKAF Wedgetail 737 AEW aircraft;

Then it's the biggest, and possibly last, mistake the North Koreans will make.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1876 posts, RR: 10
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 33):
If hes making these threats of targeting the US, why not charge him with US Fedral law which would be a Felony.
I dont understand why we cannot send FBI agents there and arrest the leader along with his generals??
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

Quoting kaitak (Reply 34):
What if a Korean Air 737 is mistaken for a RoKAF Wedgetail 737 AEW aircraft

That would be a terrible tragedy, although I have a feeling that there would be far more backlash in this event than with the KE 007 accident. There would likely be an immediate retaliation, and a quite violent one at that.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 36):

Except that it's been done before. Manuel Noriega was tried in Florida and sentenced to 17 years in prison which he served before being passed off to the French so they could bring him up on some other charges.

It could be done, it's just a matter of building up a case and then getting the target.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1876 posts, RR: 10
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
Manuel Noriega was tried in Florida and sentenced to 17 years in prison which he served before being passed off to the French so they could bring him up on some other charges.

Noriega was a drug lord that trafficked drugs to the US. He actually committed crimes against the US and it could be proven. This is besides the fact that the invasion was considered a breach of international law, but the US government hasn't always concerned themselves with that.

Kim Jong Un and his generals haven't committed a worthwhile crime against the United States. Suggesting the FBI go over pick him up for making empty threats against the US is absolutely asinine.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
getting the target.

This was the main reason for my facepalm. I would seriously question anyone who thinks it's justified to put American lives at risk to arrest a man who has made threats against the US. Unless certain comments in this thread was just huge trolling, it's not at all realistic to think you guys can just waltz into Pyongyang, arrest Kim, and extract him without a bloody war ensuing.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 28):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 20):
Then get your arse bombed by us.
Quoting wardialer (Reply 25):
I would have the SEALs pin out his compound and take him out in the head.

Did you guys learn diplomacy from Team America: World Police?
Quoting wardialer (Reply 33):
If hes making these threats of targeting the US, why not charge him with US Fedral law which would be a Felony.
I dont understand why we cannot send FBI agents there and arrest the leader along with his generals??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M
(nsfw....kinda)

:D

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 27):
The Chinese apparently got fed up after the last nuke test and really closed the border, even interdicting smuggling.

They did sign on to the sanctions so I'm assuming they're enforcing them as much as they can



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

What is this thread actually about except for a few conservative American (or western) Airliners.net members thumping their chests and posturing on a forum???


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 40):

You're more than welcome to share your opinion. Please enlighten us on a different course of action.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12523 posts, RR: 35
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 40):
What is this thread actually about except for a few conservative American (or western) Airliners.net members thumping their chests and posturing on a forum???

Any posturing and chest thumping is being done by the N Koreans. I don't think there is anything wrong with speculating on likely responses or a possible chain of events. This is becoming a very serious situation - and that is Pyongyang's doing, not anyone else's.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4047 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 40):
What is this thread actually about except for a few conservative American (or western) Airliners.net members thumping their chests and posturing on a forum???

It's rather amusing that North Korea doesn't realize or acknowledge the fact that they could be summarily curb stomped at pretty much anytime.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 42):
Any posturing and chest thumping is being done by the N Koreans. I don't think there is anything wrong with speculating on likely responses or a possible chain of events. This is becoming a very serious situation - and that is Pyongyang's doing, not anyone else's.

Nothing serious about this, just North Korea doing its usual threats to strengthen the order inside the country. It's nothing to worry about.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 43):
It's rather amusing that North Korea doesn't realize or acknowledge the fact that they could be summarily curb stomped at pretty much anytime.

North Korean leadership very well knows what they are doing, surely they know they would have no chances in actual war, they just need to keep this show up for their brainwashed people.

I doubt Americans could ever capture Kim Jong Un alive, so why waste time on that. I wish United States would instead go and capture some terrorists inside their borders, but unfortunately it seems like terrorism against civilians is okay if those civilians happen to be from a country that disagrees with the US.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 43):
It's rather amusing that North Korea doesn't realize or acknowledge the fact that they could be summarily curb stomped at pretty much anytime.

The have the fourth largest standing army on the planet defending a mostly mountainous area approximately the size of Pennsylvania. For comparison's sake the third largest standing army belongs to India. Add the reported North Korean indoctrination and it would not be a curb stomping. It would be real. It would be awful, and it would be bloody. And a lot of South Koreans and probably Japanese would die in the process.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
The have the fourth largest standing army on the planet defending a mostly mountainous area approximately the size of Pennsylvania. For comparison's sake the third largest standing army belongs to India. Add the reported North Korean indoctrination and it would not be a curb stomping. It would be real. It would be awful, and it would be bloody. And a lot of South Koreans and probably Japanese would die in the process.

I don't think we'd go in all willy nilly... we'd do what we always do: strike communications (I'm sure there is a cruise missile pointed at every comm facility in NK) and we'd go after their anti-aircraft capabilities to establish air superiority. Those two alone will do a great deal of damage and reduce effectiveness, and that wouldn't involve a single boot on the ground

I doubt we'd just charge into the mountains. After neutralizing their long range threats and probably taking out their leadership, we could probably just wait for them to try and roll past the DMZ which I'm sure would get crushed by airstrikes and all. Size of an army really isn't that important if the right steps are taken to deal with it, I don't know why everyone freaks out about the "size" of an army

The real damage NK would do is their initial strike. They are close and they are ready, and I'm sure any strike would be initiated by them (surprise attack advantage for them.) We have extremely good anti-missile capabilities (I have Army friends in Korea and in the air defense artillery) but a lot of civilians would get killed... the bases are very well protected, trust me. The initial ground blitz would be a conventional war which the US is very good at, but at the very beginning, it would be very overwhelming... studies have gone into NK and the ones I've read all stressed that they need to act very quickly and the most damage would be done in the first day



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4001 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
The have the fourth largest standing army on the planet defending a mostly mountainous area approximately the size of Pennsylvania. For comparison's sake the third largest standing army belongs to India. Add the reported North Korean indoctrination and it would not be a curb stomping. It would be real. It would be awful, and it would be bloody. And a lot of South Koreans and probably Japanese would die in the process.

If I recall Iraq had the 4th largest Army in the world in 1988 and had close to a million men and they folded fairly quick in 1991.

Even of the they have a 1,000,000 man army, if they are hungry and poorly equipped it doesn't matter much. If the DPRK were to send men over the border to the south they would need occupation troops and occupying the south would prove to be difficult. It wouldn't shock me if the DPRK troops would raid the grocery stores and consumer goods shops and get preoccupied with that. Hunger and greed can overcome a lot of indoctrination. The other thing is that they DPRK has spent so much time playing war that they may be out of touch with modern tactics. I have always heard and read that armed forces prepare for the last war and if that is true the last war for them was 60 years ago and A LOT has changed in tactics since then.

Fight in North Korea would be tough, kind of like fighting in Pennsylvania would be, lots of places to hide. If there was a ground war it would be rather bloody, which is something the civilized world isn't used to seeing much anymore.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12256 posts, RR: 35
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3977 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Saw a funny comic on Facebook the other day, but can't find it now. Basically it's a hissy fit Kim Jong Un throwing a rocket at a giant US Soldier and it bounces right off.

This one is kinda funny too  



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 44):
North Korean leadership very well knows what they are doing, surely they know they would have no chances in actual war, they just need to keep this show up for their brainwashed people.

I'm not sure that's the case.

First, the control of the media and message there is complete. There's no reason why they need to actually say or do anything to show off for the North Korean people, all they have to do is say they did. Hell, they could probably concoct a story that they are invading the south, maybe fire off a few blank artillery rounds, say that the lack of a reaction is because the imperialists are being soundly defeated, and North Koreans would buy it.

Second, they've been doing this crap for sixty malnourished years. Un is a third generation despot and this is all he's ever known and the same could probably be said for all of those around him. You see it all the time with the situation of having too many "yes men" in a given place: how many brainwashed people can a leader listen to before he's brainwashed himself? It's easy to say "the top brass knows the actual situation" but in this case they might actually not since they've all come up in the same brainwashing as everyone else.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
The have the fourth largest standing army on the planet defending a mostly mountainous area approximately the size of Pennsylvania.

It might take a while, but it would never be a real threat. They have a lot of bodies but all that will get them is a lot of bodies. They don't have much equipment, probably even less that works, along with poor health and fitness. I don't doubt they'd try hard, but it would look like a girl's high school team playing the Miami Heat.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
Add the reported North Korean indoctrination and it would not be a curb stomping.

The brainwashing might make it cleaner, for us anyway. If we were to run into a situation where virtually everyone (including women and children) was acting as a soldier in rough terrain, it makes it easier to call in tactical nuclear weapons.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 46):
I don't think we'd go in all willy nilly... we'd do what we always do: strike communications (I'm sure there is a cruise missile pointed at every comm facility in NK) and we'd go after their anti-aircraft capabilities to establish air superiority. Those two alone will do a great deal of damage and reduce effectiveness, and that wouldn't involve a single boot on the ground

That would be basically the blueprint for it. After that you just take out targets as they present themselves.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 46):
studies have gone into NK and the ones I've read all stressed that they need to act very quickly and the most damage would be done in the first day

To be fair, I'm sure studies on most places say that. It's like the sideline interview: "To win we need to rebound, play good defense, and make our shots."

Quoting falstaff (Reply 47):
If I recall Iraq had the 4th largest Army in the world in 1988 and had close to a million men and they folded fairly quick in 1991.

   And the Iraqis by comparison had better equipment and plenty of real world experience.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
The brainwashing might make it cleaner, for us anyway. If we were to run into a situation where virtually everyone (including women and children) was acting as a soldier in rough terrain, it makes it easier to call in tactical nuclear weapons.

            You must be joking. We already did that once (technically twice) in Japan on the heels of a REAL war and a real attack and we are still debating whether or not it was a good idea. We are still fending off the mess of a conventional war in Iraq for which Obama went on an apology tour, and you would suggest dropping nukes on North Korea? Madness.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
Un is a third generation despot and this is all he's ever known and the same could probably be said for all of those around him.

I do believe he studied abroad, in Switzerland IIRC... there was hope that he'd be less crazy because of this

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
To be fair, I'm sure studies on most places say that. It's like the sideline interview: "To win we need to rebound, play good defense, and make our shots."

Well it's more detailed than that, they do admittedly have a large military (which as I've said before, isn't everything) but if they attacked quickly and suddenly, the ONLY hope for them to keep any of their gains is to send everything they have and keep on the offensive. If they get held up, they'd be repelled. Speed is not just something good for them, it is essential

But people much smarter than me know this so I'm sure the US military has planned this since the Korean War. It would be bloody no doubt. The real losers would the civilians I think



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3847 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 50):
We already did that once (technically twice) in Japan on the heels of a REAL war and a real attack and we are still debating whether or not it was a good idea.

Only stupid people are. It was actually an unquestionably good idea, as illustrated by the fact that the US has still not used up all of the Purple Hearts they ordered in anticipation of an invasion of Japan.

http://www.stripes.com/blogs/the-rum...-1945-still-being-awarded-1.116756



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
The brainwashing might make it cleaner, for us anyway. If we were to run into a situation where virtually everyone (including women and children) was acting as a soldier in rough terrain, it makes it easier to call in tactical nuclear weapons.

Yeah let's kill all the innocent civilians who have been brainwashed by the evil government to behave like that, totally good ethical idea.

But oh I forgot you don't feel any empathy towards anybody. Probably it sounds like a good idea to any of your fellow narcissists.

[Edited 2013-03-31 13:14:19]


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 51):
I do believe he studied abroad, in Switzerland IIRC... there was hope that he'd be less crazy because of this

You'd hope so, but then he had a summit with Dennis Rodman so...

Quoting pvjin (Reply 53):
Yeah let's kill all the innocent civilians who have been brainwashed by the evil government to behave like that, totally ethical idea.

Considering the levels of brainwashing and leader worship that go on there, I'm not sure there actually are any innocent civilians.

At the end of the day you have to consider it in the same way the nuclear bombing of Japan was considered: "Is it potentially worth American lives to go and clean out every inch of an entrenched country where effectively the entire populace is conscripted?" I lean heavily towards answering that with a "No."



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 54):
Considering the levels of brainwashing and leader worship that go on there, I'm not sure there actually are any innocent civilians.

It's not their fault that they are brainwashed, it's not their own decision to become like that.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 54):
At the end of the day you have to consider it in the same way the nuclear bombing of Japan was considered: "Is it potentially worth American lives to go and clean out every inch of an entrenched country where effectively the entire populace is conscripted?" I lean heavily towards answering that with a "No."


I would answer yes, everyone in US army is there from his/her own will and has accepted possibility of death, thus I don't really feel any bad for American soldiers dying, their own decision to join military, deaths of soldiers is part of war. These civilians in North Korea on the other hand have never been able to see any other way than what they have been brainwashed to believe.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 56, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 55):
It's not their fault that they are brainwashed, it's not their own decision to become like that.

In a situation that would potentially cost American lives, I don't find that particularly relevant. Many Iraqis during the Gulf War were conscripts and I doubt any of them had much of a choice when it came to where or when they were born. The same could be said for virtually any war.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 55):
These civilians in North Korea on the other hand have never been able to see any other way than what they have been brainwashed to believe.

If they're brainwashed into say, trying to stab American soldiers with a pitchfork or something like that, they aren't really civilians anymore then are they? Unfortunately, I have serious doubts as to whether these "civilians" would actually act as such in a wartime scenario.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 57, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

I'm kinda skeptical on the level of brainwashing... I mean I think they more or less believe what is put out, but I don't think it would take that long for them to start to realize they might have been lied to, then with further research, it goes from there.

Has the internet helped any? I know it is heavily censored, but it's impossible to stop everything unless you make a completely internal internet



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Hmm yeah, at least obviously not all regular people are successfully brainwashed as significant amounts of them take huge risk by crossing the border to China to escape from the country. I doubt it's really possible for North Korean government to completely prevent flow of information through Chinese border in this modern age...


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3376 posts, RR: 12
Reply 59, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
Has the internet helped any? I know it is heavily censored, but it's impossible to stop everything unless you make a completely internal internet

What makes you think the common man even has internet acces? First rule of the dictator is to control information. The internet can never be completely controlled, except by denying acces altogether.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 60, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 59):
What makes you think the common man even has internet acces? First rule of the dictator is to control information.

I know I know, I meant it as a grassroots kind of movement by the people that actually do have internet, because as you say:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 59):
The internet can never be completely controlled, except by denying acces altogether.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 61, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
I'm kinda skeptical on the level of brainwashing... I mean I think they more or less believe what is put out, but I don't think it would take that long for them to start to realize they might have been lied to, then with further research, it goes from there.

I wouldn't be particularly willing to risk the lives of Americans or those of our allies waiting for North Koreans to figure things out. If they do that's great, but I have my doubts.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
Has the internet helped any?

What internet?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 62, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 44):
just North Korea doing its usual threats to strengthen the order inside the country.

And to extort food and money from us.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 44):
but unfortunately it seems like terrorism against civilians is okay if those civilians happen to be from a country that disagrees with the US.

Last time I checked, the West has left North Korea alone since the Armistice was signed.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 44):
I doubt Americans could ever capture Kim Jong Un alive

The North Korean leadership would likely defect to China if given a choice between that and annihilation. These guys are a bit smarter than the average jihadist, and know when to take a good deal.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 53):

Yeah let's kill all the innocent civilians who have been brainwashed by the evil government to behave like that, totally good ethical idea.
Quoting pvjin (Reply 55):
It's not their fault that they are brainwashed, it's not their own decision to become like that.

Nobody is talking about a preemptive strike on North Korea, and it is not our fault if North Korea decides to start a war. The international community has collectively made the risks, including the risks of brinksmanship, very clear to the North Korean leadership. If they are stupid enough to start a war, then the blame lies solely on them.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 63, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 62):
And to extort food and money from us.

Actually they make their own money. It's one thing they are actually quite good at.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 64, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 41):

You're more than welcome to share your opinion. Please enlighten us on a different course of action.

Ignore the North Koreans then, and stop getting so bent out of shape about it. Honestly, if people wanted to engage in diplomacy with them, we'd all get farther. Unfortunately, people always want to have a "whose dick is bigger contest."

Quoting kaitak (Reply 42):
Any posturing and chest thumping is being done by the N Koreans. I don't think there is anything wrong with speculating on likely responses or a possible chain of events. This is becoming a very serious situation - and that is Pyongyang's doing, not anyone else's.

See the above, and this very thread. Pathetic posturing and one-upsmanship. Let's get over it.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 43):

It's rather amusing that North Korea doesn't realize or acknowledge the fact that they could be summarily curb stomped at pretty much anytime.
Please.  

Ultimately... This is the same crap that has been going on since the Korean War. Since Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, and now Kim Jong-Un...well...

In more important news.............



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 65, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 42):
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 40):
What is this thread actually about except for a few conservative American (or western) Airliners.net members thumping their chests and posturing on a forum???

Any posturing and chest thumping is being done by the N Koreans. I don't think there is anything wrong with speculating on likely responses or a possible chain of events. This is becoming a very serious situation - and that is Pyongyang's doing, not anyone else's.

My "city" in my username may be western but I'm living in Tokyo now. People are quite concerned about N.Korea here but are quite aware of Japan's ability to kick some arse (even if they're technically not allowed to.) I'm not posturing. I'm not "chest thumping." I'm making fun of a pretentious nation run by a fat nutcase in his late 20s.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 48):
This one is kinda funny too

Love it   



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 66, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 63):

A country cannot survive financially on 1 trading partner, frozen assets, and multiple sanctions.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 64):
Ignore the North Koreans then, and stop getting so bent out of shape about it

The more we ignore them, the more belligerent they get. Whenever our attention is focused elsewhere, they will try to 1-up the saber rattling. Remember that they will go to great lengths such as sinking warships and shelling South Korean villages.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 64):
if people wanted to engage in diplomacy with them, we'd all get farther.

North Korea has chosen to cut all lines of communication. The powers that be would love to talk to them and work out a deal, which would probably include giving them things in return for being good.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 67, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 65):

My "city" in my username may be western but I'm living in Tokyo now. People are quite concerned about N.Korea here but are quite aware of Japan's ability to kick some arse (even if they're technically not allowed to.) I'm not posturing. I'm not "chest thumping." I'm making fun of a pretentious nation run by a fat nutcase in his late 20s.

No worries brother, when I've been in Japan off and on over the past 7 years North Korea wasn't even a topic really. I'm sure Japan and the RoK would be rid of the north quite handily, it isn't that big of a threat as media makes it seem.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 66):

The more we ignore them, the more belligerent they get. Whenever our attention is focused elsewhere, they will try to 1-up the saber rattling. Remember that they will go to great lengths such as sinking warships and shelling South Korean villages.

I wonder why...actually I don't have to. They're desperate for attention and want to be viewed as a nation on the right side of a bell curve.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 66):

North Korea has chosen to cut all lines of communication. The powers that be would love to talk to them and work out a deal, which would probably include giving them things in return for being good.

Western nations have effectively cut themselves off from North Korea as well. Diplomacy is a two way street.

Anyway, much of this media circus around the latest threats is just that.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 68, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
I'm kinda skeptical on the level of brainwashing... I mean I think they more or less believe what is put out, but I don't think it would take that long for them to start to realize they might have been lied to, then with further research, it goes from there.

Has the internet helped any? I know it is heavily censored, but it's impossible to stop everything unless you make a completely internal internet

For decades, TV's and Radios there are pre tuned and sealed to only receive government stations. So no leakage of signals from the South, unlike Eastern Europe - East Germany in particular - from the West in the Cold War.
Few will have Internet, those few being in the regime.
And this regime has been in power since the late 1940's.

Still, enough try to get out, mostly to China, you suspect desperation and hunger drives that rather than ideology.
Despite everything though, human nature suggests that they'll be plenty of 'Winston Smiths' in the country.
(But look what happened to him?)

The idea of a US attack on DPRK, unless the North does something exceptionally dangerous and stupid, is absurd.
The idea of using nukes, unless the North did so or was clearly about to do so, is immoral.

The irony of the situation, is that however awful the place is, however rotten the regime, or provocative or unpredictable it is, the likely scenarios that would lead to their deserved demise, are all much worse, as far as South Korea, China, Japan or the US is concerned.
You hope for an internal collapse as happened in Eastern Europe, the regime leadership/Kim Family deserve to hang from lampposts/have a Ceausescu moment, sadly that does not look likely, with the caveat that the combination of their extreme secrecy and paranoia, might be driven by interal fissures that are more serious than assumed outside.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 69, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 57):
I'm kinda skeptical on the level of brainwashing...

Somebody who is "brainwashed" but discontented at the same time is unhappy with his government in the first place.

How come thousands try to flee North Korea every year, knowing very well that it could easily kill them? Because they are brainwashed to think that life in South Korea is worse?

How come peasant farmers ask foreign aid workers to bring them some goods for their farm from China? Because those farmers are brainwashed to think they had nothing to envy?

Quoting GDB (Reply 68):
For decades, TV's and Radios there are pre tuned and sealed to only receive government stations. So no leakage of signals from the South

Some people do manipulate their radios. Or get a radio in China - which, apparently, has become more difficult.
Besides, the state-run broadcasters do send images from the south from time to time, and people can tell that there are tons of cars and that people are elegantly dressed.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 70, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3330 times:
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Quoting NoUFO (Reply 69):
How come peasant farmers ask foreign aid workers to bring them some goods for their farm from China? Because those farmers are brainwashed to think they had nothing to envy?

Rural peoples may be the least "brainwashed" people in the DPRK. Rural people are usually less dependant on services than urban dwellers. This fact is pointed out on a.net all the time. I have spent a great deal of time in the rural US midwest and it is much different, in culture and politics, than urban centers. I have spent some time in the rural areas of the UK and Germany and find them to be much different than the urban areas in those places too. I would imagine the DPRK is no different. It may be even more pronounced in the DPRK because of the issues with food and electricity shortages the rural folks may have to fend for themselves for more than their peers in developed countries.

People in an urban environment are easier to control because they live close to each other and often work in places where many other people work. I would think the government of the DPRK can't watch every farmer all the time or listen to the conversations in the fields the way they can monitor a factory or an apartment building. It is fairly easy to keep an eye on urban dwellers with cameras and policemen on every corner, but that just doesn't work out in the boonies.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 71, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

A report on the Today Show this morning showed clips from N. Korean TV. The report claimed that there's a fairly constant barrage of propoganda regarding military victories over S. Korea, plus animation of N. Korean missiles downing U.S. B-52s.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 56):
If they're brainwashed into say, trying to stab American soldiers with a pitchfork or something like that, they aren't really civilians anymore then are they?

And if they're hungry enough, they'll put down those pitchforks when U.N. trucks loaded with rice and other commodities come streaming over the border. Fighting an impoverished nation isn't the same as fighting a well-equipped army from a prosperous economy.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 72, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 70):
Rural peoples may be the least "brainwashed" people in the DPRK.

Rural people are the last to see foreigners, too. People from Pyongyang see well-fed tourists now and then.
From what I know, farmers have to do mandatory collective work like road works and need public services to sell parts of their harvest at one of the few markets (legally or not).

And I notice you make it sound as if the fact that urban people in the western world are notoriously more liberal was a result of low-level governmental control and indoctrination. But opposition against oppressive regimes have always formed in cities first (preferably with cities a large number of university students) like Leipzig in the GDR, Beijing in China or Rangoon in Myanmar.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 73, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 66):
A country cannot survive financially on 1 trading partner, frozen assets, and multiple sanctions.

No you misunderstand. North Korea literally makes their own dollars and according to the Secret Service they are the best counterfeits out there.

Luckily the overall effect of such activities is not great, but the potential is there. If the government really wanted to, the US could build the case against North Korea and justify going to war on it since the integrity of the dollar is a huge deal.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 71):
And if they're hungry enough, they'll put down those pitchforks when U.N. trucks loaded with rice and other commodities come streaming over the border.

Hopefully, but it's a war scenario and you can't really lead with the food.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 74, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 73):
you can't really lead with the food.

Drop leaflets, drop crates of care packages with the message, broadcast on radio, the word gets out. This ain't rocket science. You tell starving millions that all they have to do is make a path for the delivery trucks, and you'd be surprised what that hunger will accomplish for you.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 75, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 74):
Drop leaflets, drop crates of care packages with the message, broadcast on radio, the word gets out.

Of that only the leaflets could be really successful. Radios are probably too few and not enough of them can be tuned to frequencies other than state radio. Care packages are right out because they would head straight to the military.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 76, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
Radios are probably too few and not enough of them can be tuned to frequencies other than state radio

It's not that hard to drown out state radio with your own message.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
Care packages are right out because they would head straight to the military.

Even if they do, the populace knows they're there. Drop 'em out in the fields, some will get through. Creating anarchy is the point, and a nation can easily be swayed by their stomachs.

This ain't rocket science.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 77, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3287 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 72):
preferably with cities a large number of university students

Unfortunetly in the USA too many university students want more government control. I saw that back in the 1990s when I was in school.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
Care packages are right out because they would head straight to the military.

I could see the government telling people that the food was poisoned and needed to be turned over to the army for "disposal". That would probably work very well and food would be delivered to the army even faster than if they had to go pick it up by themselves.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 72):
, Beijing in China or Rangoon in Myanmar.

Neither of which were all that successful. The GDR was rather unique, not too often do nations fall without some sort of blood shed.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3376 posts, RR: 12
Reply 78, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 76):

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
Radios are probably too few and not enough of them can be tuned to frequencies other than state radio

It's not that hard to drown out state radio with your own message.

Indeed, and having everyone on the same frequency/ies makes it only easier to reach everyone at the same time. If I am not mistaken the USAF already has a few C-130s that are used to drown out radio and TV frequencies. They were used over Libya as well if I remember correctly.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 79, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 77):
I could see the government telling people that the food was poisoned and needed to be turned over to the army for "disposal".

While some people will be hungry enough to try it, then ask why their government is lying to them. That creates doubt and encourages anarchy. It's not something the N. Korean government would want to risk.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinetxjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 78):
If I am not mistaken the USAF already has a few C-130s that are used to drown out radio and TV frequencies. They were used over Libya as well if I remember correctly.
http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=182

Commando Solo has been effectively used in many situations but has no self-defense capability


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 14079 posts, RR: 62
Reply 81, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 66):
The powers that be would love to talk to them and work out a deal, which would probably include giving them things in return for being good.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 71):
A report on the Today Show this morning showed clips from N. Korean TV. The report claimed that there's a fairly constant barrage of propoganda regarding military victories over S. Korea, plus animation of N. Korean missiles downing U.S. B-52s.

The problem is that NK´s government see themselves as the rightful government of the whole of Korea and this will definitely included in their demands.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 75):
Radios are probably too few and not enough of them can be tuned to frequencies other than state radio.

Stick to oldfashioned, analogue steam radio. It is pretty easy to build simple, but working receivers from simplest materials. If POWs or concentration camp inhsbitants could do so under constant watch by the guards, North Korean people should be able to do so as well.

Jan


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 82, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 67):
Western nations have effectively cut themselves off from North Korea as well. Diplomacy is a two way street.

I think you're forgetting who's in the wrong here. If your looking for appeasement from the international community, it clearly isn't going to happen. If North Korea doesn't want to change the status quo, then there isn't anything to talk about.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 73):
No you misunderstand. North Korea literally makes their own dollars and according to the Secret Service they are the best counterfeits out there.

They still have to find a way to trade them, which can't be done on any open market.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 67):
I wonder why...actually I don't have to. They're desperate for attention and want to be viewed as a nation on the right side of a bell curve.

And they've been recently reminded of what form that attention will come in if they attack South Korea, or anybody else, again.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 74):
Drop leaflets
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 74):
drop crates of care packages with the message

That's impossible at this point. North Korea has already demonstrated that they'll take full advantage of any half decent excuse to shoot at South Korea. The best thing that can be done at this point is leave them be until the situation settles down.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 83, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 82):
That's impossible at this point. North Korea has already demonstrated that they'll take full advantage of any half decent excuse to shoot at South Korea.

We're talking about if it comes to war, not as a prelude to war.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 82):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 73):
No you misunderstand. North Korea literally makes their own dollars and according to the Secret Service they are the best counterfeits out there.

They still have to find a way to trade them, which can't be done on any open market.

There haven't been any credible reports of N. Korean fake dollars being produced since the last change was made to the Franklin around 2007. The newer series are extremely difficult to get right. Prior series N. Korea was fairly good at passing through a bank in Macau and selling in bulk at a discount to be put into circulation throughout the world.

N. Korea has been more involved in other cash earners such as fake drugs to drum up foreign currency of late.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 84, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

http://www.a-framevideo.com/thread_direction_2.gif


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 85, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 61):
I wouldn't be particularly willing to risk the lives of Americans or those of our allies waiting for North Koreans to figure things out. If they do that's great, but I have my doubts.

I wasn't talking about letting our forces get killed while waiting for them to change, you fight if you have to. I just think many would defect

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 61):
What internet?
Quoting GDB (Reply 68):
Few will have Internet, those few being in the regime.

I know internet is extremely limited, but I thought I read something that a bit of smuggled news makes it way in there, somehow, despite the government's attempts to block it

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 69):
How come thousands try to flee North Korea every year, knowing very well that it could easily kill them? Because they are brainwashed to think that life in South Korea is worse?

   Exactly, obviously, the truth is out there, even if it's very stifled

Quoting falstaff (Reply 77):
I could see the government telling people that the food was poisoned and needed to be turned over to the army for "disposal". That would probably work very well and food would be delivered to the army even faster than if they had to go pick it up by themselves.

They'd definitely do that, and using their media and propaganda I'm sure they'd even kill people to hoax the poison. I think word would get out on the down low though that it's legit, even if all of the food gets seized



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 86, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 76):
Creating anarchy is the point, and a nation can easily be swayed by their stomachs.

Presumably doing something like that will anger the North Korean officials, who are not the least bit shy about abusing their people.

The point is that there's a lot more to it than just dropping food. There are a lot of things that could be intended to help people but actually do the opposite.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 81):
Stick to oldfashioned, analogue steam radio. It is pretty easy to build simple, but working receivers from simplest materials. If POWs or concentration camp inhsbitants could do so under constant watch by the guards, North Korean people should be able to do so as well.

Only if you know what you're doing. Obviously some North Koreans could do such things, but I suspect the majority are exceptionally ignorant to such things. It would be interesting to see what sorts of things they've MacGyvered for themselves, but knowledge seems to be tightly controlled.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 83):
The newer series are extremely difficult to get right.

Even the US couldn't do it for a while.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 83):
Prior series N. Korea was fairly good at passing through a bank in Macau and selling in bulk at a discount to be put into circulation throughout the world.

I always heard they often flowed through Moscow, often with North Korean officials.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2771 posts, RR: 18
Reply 87, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

DPRK is one country where I wish USA had Skynet and would develop the T800 to unleash it onto the DPRK horde. Risk free, guaranteed success!

Their chants of war is starting to sound more and more serious and I worry they will actually make a pre emptive strike just like what they did to the Chosan a few years back. This time US Destroyers in the area would be targets too and even Korean air 737's that the NK probably can't tell from the Recon plane as mentioned earlier up the thread.

Pray for peace all, or some supernatural event which takes out the leadership, and the military commanders. Perhaps there is a dormant volcano which could reawaken or be forced awake by their own nuke testing. Or how about triggering an earthquake or diverting an asteroid in space to Pyongyang's presidential palace. These occurrences would be favorable than sending hundreds of thousands of US and SK troops to their deaths.



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineaf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 88, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 87):

Or maybe North Korea will somehow get logic and think to themselves "Lets just be friends with the U.S. and I'm sure they will be friends with us."



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5080 posts, RR: 28
Reply 89, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

I have a bad feeling this guy thinks the world is scared of N Korea. I also have a bad feeling he will do something stupid. Just hope he gets taught a good lesson from it.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 89):

I have a bad feeling this guy thinks the world is scared of N Korea. I also have a bad feeling he will do something stupid. Just hope he gets taught a good lesson from it.

He won't do anything. It's just a gigantic load of propaganda.

If anything, I wish he did something. It's about time the situation in the Korean peninsula got sorted. Let him fire on round of one .38 6-shooter pistol across the the border to South Korea, so that all hell can finally break loose, and the powers-that-be get that area sorted for good.



Cheers
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 91, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

Fidel Castro advises friend North Korea against war

Quote:

(Reuters) - Former Cuban leader Fidel Castro warned ally North Korea against war on Friday and described the current tensions on the Korean Peninsula as one of the "gravest risks" for nuclear holocaust since the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962.

Saying he spoke as a friend, Castro wrote in Cuban state media that North Korea, led by 30-year-old Kim Jong-un, had shown the world its technical prowess and now it was time to remember its duties to others.

North Korea, which along with Cuba is one of the world's last communist countries, has been ratcheting up pressure by declaring war on neighbor South Korea and threatening to stage a nuclear strike on the United States.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinevictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 518 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2298 times:

What would be the effect of telling the Chinese that if they can't get North Korea to shut down its nuke program, that the United States certainly can't be expected to deter Taiwan from developing a nuclear weapons program?

User currently offlineBlueLight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 93, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Quoting victrola (Reply 92):
What would be the effect of telling the Chinese that if they can't get North Korea to shut down its nuke program, that the United States certainly can't be expected to deter Taiwan from developing a nuclear weapons program?

Seriously? Come on.

Keep in mind the Chinese are in a very tough spot themselves. If the regime falls or chaos ensues the would as many as 10 MILLION or more refugees flooding into their country. If you think that's a minor problem look at how badly the US (a much wealthier country) was hit by having "only" a couple hundred thousand displaced people post-Katrina.

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 90):
If anything, I wish he did something. It's about time the situation in the Korean peninsula got sorted. Let him fire on round of one .38 6-shooter pistol across the the border to South Korea, so that all hell can finally break loose, and the powers-that-be get that area sorted for good.

And millions upon millions will die as a result. Let's try a different approach, say like how the Soviet Union fell, or the peace between relatively recent Northern Ireland. In the end patience, diplomacy, and dogged determination, not to blow the world up worked in the end.


User currently offlinevictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 518 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

[

Quoting BlueLight (Reply 93):
Seriously? Come on.Keep in mind the Chinese are in a very tough spot themselves. If the regime falls or chaos ensues the would as many as 10 MILLION or more refugees flooding into their country. If you think that's a minor problem look at how badly the US (a much wealthier country) was hit by having "only" a couple hundred thousand displaced people post-Katrina.

I'm throwing this as out as a scenario to explore. First of all, I am not sure China is doing all it can to rein in its ally. They could renounce their military alliance with North Korea. They could cut off all trade and aid. They could seal the border.

Now I am not at all sure my suggestion of telling the Chinese that we will not stand in the way of Taiwan going nuclear is a good idea either. However let's explore this scenario. What would the Chinese do if an American President said " If you can't stop the North Korean nuclear program, we can't stop a Taiwanese nuclear program"?


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 9):
Well, it makes no difference. It's just that if they were to launch a (hypothetical) missile I don't think it would follow parallel 40 all the way to America. It would fly north, then south, as airplanes do. But, yeah, I don't think they have the weapon

The missiles would fly straight. It's the 40th parallel that would dip south of a direct course.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12523 posts, RR: 35
Reply 96, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

If the north were to launch nuclear missiles from anywhere in Korea, presumably there would be tell-tale signs of this which could be observed by satellite photography? How long would it take from the time an order is given, to a US submarine launching an attack on such a site. Would the North Koreans be prepare, fuel and fire a missile without anyone noticing?

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 90):

I have a bad feeling this guy thinks the world is scared of N Korea. I also have a bad feeling he will do something stupid. Just hope he gets taught a good lesson from it.
He won't do anything. It's just a gigantic load of propaganda.

I think that the closer things come to the brink, the more provocations there are, the less likely it is that he will have control over the situation. As I've said previously, we are in uncharted territory now and the South will not lie down and allow itself to be attacked, as it has done in the past. Moreover, South Korean commanders have the power to respond, if they are provoked, so there is the potential for things to spin out of political control quite quickly.

It comes down to the paradox of the absolute dictator; in order to solidify his power, he has to go chest thumping and "two fingering" the rest of the world; it worked for Kim Jong Il, but now the US, South Korea, Japan and the UN are resolute in offering nothing and will not bow down to these threats, so Kim Jung Un has to push and push and push and the more he does, the greater the danger and, because he is the strong leader, he cannot row back (much like Saddam) without loss of face - and we know that's a no-no in Korean culture, so the situation is becoming more difficult by the day.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 97, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 96):
How long would it take from the time an order is given, to a US submarine launching an attack on such a site.

North Korea would probably have only a few minutes warning. It's also likely there is more than one SSBN kicking around the Sea of Japan.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 96):
Would the North Koreans be prepare, fuel and fire a missile without anyone noticing?

No, everyone has eye's on North Korea right now.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 96):
I think that the closer things come to the brink, the more provocations there are, the less likely it is that he will have control over the situation.

  



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 14079 posts, RR: 62
Reply 98, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

In meantime China is consolidating her hold over the contested islands in the South China Sea.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22056661

Jan


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