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F1 2013: Chinese Grand Prix  
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Here go again! After a 3-week break, the championship resumes tomorrow in China. This is the 3rd round of the 2013 F1 championship.

Shanghai International Circuit

http://sponsoring.allianz.com/static/sites/default/media/formula1/Images_2013/circuit-graphics-e-2013/03_China_E_72DPI.jpg

Lap data

Lap length: 5.451 km
Race laps: 56
Race distance: 305.066 km
Pole position: Left-hand side of the track
Lap record: 1’32.238 (212.75 kph) by Michael Schumacher, 2004
Fastest lap: 1’32.238 (212.75 kph) by Michael Schumacher, 2004
Maximum speed: 316 kph
DRS zone/s (race): Pit straight and longest straight
Distance from grid to turn one: 380m


Car performance

Full throttle: 65%
Longest flat-out section: 1,397 m
Downforce level: High
Gear changes per lap: 57
Fuel use per lap: 2.5 kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel: 0.1s


Championships standings

1 - Sebastian Vettel 40
2 - Kimi Räikkönen 31
3 - Mark Webber 26
4 - Lewis Hamilton 25
5 - Felipe Massa 22
6 - Fernando Alonso 18
7 - Nico Rosberg 12
8 - Romain Grosjean 9
9 - Adrian Sutil 6
10 - Paul di Resta 4
= Nico Hülkenberg 4
12 - Sergio Perez 2
13 - Jenson Button 2
14 - Jean-Éric Vergne 1
15 - Valtteri Bottas 0
16 - Esteban Gutiérrez 0
17 - Jules Bianchi 0
18 - Charles Pic 0
19 - Giedo van der Garde 0
20 - Max Chilton 0
21 - Daniel Ricciardo 0
22 - Pastor Maldonado 0


1 - Red Bull / Renault 66
2 - Lotus / Renault 40
3 - Ferrari 40
4 - Mercedes 37
5 - Force India / Mercedes 10
6 - Sauber / Ferrari 4
7 - McLaren / Mercedes 4
8 - Toro Rosso / Ferrari 1
9 - Williams / Renault 0
10 - Marussia / Cosworth 0
11 - Caterham / Renault 0


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Thanks for starting this thread, yet again!
Glad the 3 weeks wait is over!

I wonder if the RBR-saga continues in China!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently onlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2606 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2995 times:
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Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 1):
I wonder if the RBR-saga continues in China!

It probably will, especially after this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106631

But you know what? I'm loving it. I do not believe Vettel did anything wrong by disobeying team orders to take the win, because that's what racing drivers are supposed to do. The difference between world champions and the rest is that the former is prepared to win at all costs if that's what it takes.

There's nothing wrong with having teammates that can't stand each other's presence. In fact, it adds spice to the racing. Neither is going to want to back down for the other now, it's going to be pedal to the mettle from start to finish, and may the best man win. This is exactly how racing should be done.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3928 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2959 times:

Red Bull have a secret communication channel between the driver and the pit it would seem - they've taken the interesting step of taking one of the unused settings on the ECU, programming it to do literally nothing, and giving the driver the ability to toggle it on the steering wheel - the ECU telemetry is encrypted, so other teams don't get access to it, so the driver can indicate to the pit a lot of information about tyres, speed, condition etc without having to resort to the radio (which other teams can listen in on).

User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5693 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2948 times:
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And Seb has recanted his whiney insincere apology...

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 2):
I do not believe Vettel did anything wrong by disobeying team orders to take the win

Not a big fan of team orders but do see a place for them when they think there might be something to conserve like fuel or tyre wear and where racing each other has the possibillity of neither car finishing.
By all reports RBR made that call and their hot headed "no 1 driver" decided to ignore it.
After the race in Sepang he was all whiney and contrite about how he didn't mean to and it was all a big mistake and he was sorry for what he did.
What a load of BS.. now he is saying it was revenge for MW not supporting him in the past and how Mark didn't deserve to win.

Grow up Seb... until you develop some moral fibre you will never be one of the Greats no matter how many races or championships you win!!

It is time Seb stops modeling himself on his recently retired (re-retired) hero... someone with unquestioned talent and results to prove it but very real questions about their ethics and morals!(Actually real convictions not questions)



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently onlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2606 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2934 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting stealthz (Reply 4):
What a load of BS.. now he is saying it was revenge for MW not supporting him in the past and how Mark didn't deserve to win.
http://www.planetf1.com/editorial/8609604/Was-Webber-Goading-Vettel-

There's a rather interesting take on the situation on Planet F1.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Is it poor form to hope for a bout of Shanghai belly for either Jenson Button or Sergio Perez, just so we can have another family dynasty in F1?  

Kevin Magnussen, son of Jan Magnussen (who raced for McLaren & Stewart in the mid-to-late 90's and who's currently doing motorsports racing with Corvette) is apparently the stated third driver for McLaren in both the Chinese and Bahrain GP  


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12498 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2847 times:
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So, Hamilton takes pole, confirming that the Mercedes looks pretty strong on this track. A very tactical Q3 with Vettel electing to not set a time and start on the harder tyres (a minor error in not setting a time then allowing Button to set a very slow time to finish ahead).

Q3 result:
1. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - 1:34.484
2. Kimi Raikkonen - Lotus - 1:34.761
3. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari - 1:34.788
4. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes - 1:34.861
5. Felipe Massa - Ferrari - 1:34.933
6. Romain Grosjean - Lotus - 1:35.364
7. Daniel Ricciardo - Toro Rosso - 1:35.998
8. Jenson Button - McLaren - 2:05.673
9. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
10. Nico Hulkenberg - Sauber

So with Button & Vettel on the harder tyre, the race could get interesting when the front-runners tyres die after just a few laps.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

###NEWS### Webber sent to the back of the grid for fuel irregularity!

I wonder if Vettel's gamble works out......9th is not very good, with all the risks of the 1st corner etc.

Alonso looks as strong as ever, I have my sincere doubts whether Kimi and Lewis can match his race pace!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2758 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 8):
Alonso looks as strong as ever, I have my sincere doubts whether Kimi and Lewis can match his race pace!

Maybe Kimi could keep up with him, the Mercedes... not so much, they seem to be very fragile this season.

Anyways, I look forward to an interesting race tomorrow morning (setting alarm up at 8:00am) and hopefully the Ferrari´s will do a grand job.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1338 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Did you know that the last 4 deaths of British Prime Ministers have been followed by a victory for the team from Enstone?

Edward Heath, July 17, 2005 (Alonso wins German GP in Renault)
James Callaghan, March 26, 2005 (Alonso wins Bahrain GP in Renault)
Alec Douglas-Home, October 1995 (Michael Schumacher wins Pacific GP in Benetton)
Harold Wilson, May 1995 (Michael Schumacher wins Monaco GP in Benetton)

Also (though it was a different team technically) the first race held after the death of Clement Attlee in October 1967 was won by Jim Clark in a Lotus.

Bodes well for Kimi.....



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10709 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 9):
Anyways, I look forward to an interesting race tomorrow morning (setting alarm up at 8:00am) and hopefully the Ferrari´s will do a grand job.

They did. Almost as convincing as RB last time. Forza Ferrari! After the first two races I thought this season might become the same shit as the last years, but this GP was promising, so it might be worth to switch on the TV again.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2758 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting na (Reply 11):
They did. Almost as convincing as RB last time. Forza Ferrari!

Yes!! 

Excellent drive by Alonso, he knew what he had to do and did it seamlessly, shake off Kimi in the start and then Hamilton would be a piece of cake.

So exciting watching Alonso overtake Vettel with such ease, who would´ve thought that would happen a few seasons ago? and laugh of the day goes to Alonso as well:

Fernando, you are xyz seconds faster in each sector, no need to push...
I´m not pushing...

LOL!

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12498 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2648 times:
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So what happened to all the investigations for use of DRS under yellow flags?


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 8):

Alonso looks as strong as ever, I have my sincere doubts whether Kimi and Lewis can match his race pace!

It's nice to see my crystal ball working!

Impressive performance by Ferrari, I think this year's car matches the RBR.
Great drive by Alonso, but I give a lot of credit to the car as well!
Just so typical that Massa can't pull it off.



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6608 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

I watched this in the afternoon, on my computer, I could go back and all, but still, I struggled till the end to know the real order of pilots, really confusing ! Massa even asked about it at one point on the radio !

Nice win for Alonso, and nice save from Kimi, ending up where he started despite a crappy start (apparently caused by the team) and a crash ! I hope Grosjean can figure out where his settings went wrong, and maybe get a new chassis if he believes the current one is faulty.

RBR will certainly not have convinced Webber and us that they treat their drivers the same !



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8445 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 13):
So what happened to all the investigations for use of DRS under yellow flags?

Nothing. FIA let everyone off because they don't had a proper system in place while they sort out their telemetry and automatic marshalling system.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12498 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
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Quoting bill142 (Reply 16):
Nothing. FIA let everyone off because they don't had a proper system in place while they sort out their telemetry and automatic marshalling system.

So the FIA cannot disable DRS? I must admit I naively assumed that if Race Control say DRS cannot be used that the drivers would be unable to deploy it. So it seems drivers can break the rules with no risk of being punished.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 17):
So the FIA cannot disable DRS? I must admit I naively assumed that if Race Control say DRS cannot be used that the drivers would be unable to deploy it. So it seems drivers can break the rules with no risk of being punished.

Actually it's not that simple.

The FIA can disable DRS during the race.

The system that allows or does not allow DRS to be opened when the car is one second or less from the car ahead does work. It won't allow DRS activation if at more than one second from the car ahead.

What's not working (has been disabled) is the automatic marshalling on the dashboard of the cars. The dash of all cars have yellow, blue and red lights for each type of flag. These have been disabled as the FIA's electronic equipment is faulty. Therefore drivers are currently relying on the real flags.

Because the DRS system also uses the electronic marshalling system, the DRS system never "saw" the yellow flags because the system for these flags was disabled. Therefore it allowed DRS activation on the simple condition that A. DRS system was enabled (after the first few laps in the race) and B. car was less than one second ahead. The C. condition (flags) was always respected - not ignored, but respected, as the data in the dash of the cars basically said there were no flags.

In computer language, you'd get:

- DRS button press (anywhere between DRS time check and DRS activation line)

if yellow, red, blue flags = 0 and gap to car ahead is equal or less than 1 second and general DRS = 1

then activate DRS when passing DRS activation line

Hope this is clearer.



Cheers
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3928 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10709 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

About time. I like him, but its clear to see he´s no match (anymore) for Vettel. So either he agrees to be no.2 or leaves. No other option left.


User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8445 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2455 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):

What's not working (has been disabled) is the automatic marshalling on the dashboard of the cars. The dash of all cars have yellow, blue and red lights for each type of flag. These have been disabled as the FIA's electronic equipment is faulty. Therefore drivers are currently relying on the real flags.

Part of this included the ability to disable DRS. Even though race control sends messages that DRS is disabled, the drivers can still deploy it and they rely on the teams to tell their drivers. Until they fix it, FIA should be able to broadcast a radio message to all drivers at the same time that DRS is disabled as work around.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12498 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting bill142 (Reply 21):
Until they fix it, FIA should be able to broadcast a radio message to all drivers at the same time that DRS is disabled as work around.

An even simpler solution would be to have a marshall positioned at the start of the DRS zone and have him wave a yellow flag whenever DRS is disabled. In the case of China, the DRS zone starts a long way ahead of the hairpin where the yellow flags were being waved.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5693 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2439 times:
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Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):
Actually it's not that simple.

It worked last year... they have had telemetry issues this year but IMO it is a fail on the part of the FIA/FOM etc

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

The rumours, well front page in Nat online newspapers speak of a 5 yr deal with Porsche.. along with the Aust Nat Broadcaster.. despite the denials from Porsche the red flag for me is the "5 yr deal", from my understanding MW is not a long term contract kind of person.
May believe this rumour when I am in Eastern France in 2014.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3928 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 23):
It worked last year... they have had telemetry issues this year but IMO it is a fail on the part of the FIA/FOM etc

The FIA switched telemetry providers this season, hence all the issues. I'm betting they are currently regretting it, and some account manager somewhere is being leaned on very very heavily indeed!


25 Post contains images GrahamHill : I think his time was done. It's a wise decision. So a return to Le Mans then. I'm sure he remembers well the last time he's been there: Not bad the v
26 bill142 : My understanding is that the drivers became under investigation because they were using DRS in the second DRS zone which was green flagged. I don't a
27 blueflyer : He never misses an opportunity to demonstrate that, all the while being a fantastic driver, he is also an immature child still. If anything, he has m
28 scbriml : The fact that the drivers would have been given a green flag after they cleared the incident at the hairpin was no indication that they could then us
29 moo : The problem is that the FIA bundled the DRS control system into the in-cockpit notification system, without a thought as to how to control it if that
30 CXB77L : Hardly. If anything, it demonstrates that he has the determination to win at all costs, even if it means destroying his teammate. That determination
31 Aesma : On the other hand his seat is safe. If Webber had done the exact same thing the end result career wise might have not been the same.
32 stealthz : It is not the team mate issue, his employers gave him an instruction based on their determination of what was the best for their business.. he disobe
33 Post contains images scbriml : Imagine the next drivers' briefing - "Guys, this here is the new orange flag. It means DRS is currently not allowed." There, that wasn't very difficu
34 moo : Have you done all the requisite testing with that flag? Is it reasonable to expect it not to be confused with a yellow or red flag at speed? Do the m
35 zckls04 : Rule changes aren't unprecedented before the race though- I think the drivers could handle it. It would just require some extra work on the team's pa
36 bill142 : I think the suggestion of an orange flag was just that. A Suggestion. The flag could be any colour and something could be agreed with the teams and d
37 Post contains links CXB77L : What was best for their business was to have both cars finish 1-2, thus maximising the points. It mattered not which order they finished in. Vettel s
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