Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
F1 2013: Chinese Grand Prix  
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2850 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Here go again! After a 3-week break, the championship resumes tomorrow in China. This is the 3rd round of the 2013 F1 championship.

Shanghai International Circuit

http://sponsoring.allianz.com/static/sites/default/media/formula1/Images_2013/circuit-graphics-e-2013/03_China_E_72DPI.jpg

Lap data

Lap length: 5.451 km
Race laps: 56
Race distance: 305.066 km
Pole position: Left-hand side of the track
Lap record: 1’32.238 (212.75 kph) by Michael Schumacher, 2004
Fastest lap: 1’32.238 (212.75 kph) by Michael Schumacher, 2004
Maximum speed: 316 kph
DRS zone/s (race): Pit straight and longest straight
Distance from grid to turn one: 380m


Car performance

Full throttle: 65%
Longest flat-out section: 1,397 m
Downforce level: High
Gear changes per lap: 57
Fuel use per lap: 2.5 kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel: 0.1s


Championships standings

1 - Sebastian Vettel 40
2 - Kimi Räikkönen 31
3 - Mark Webber 26
4 - Lewis Hamilton 25
5 - Felipe Massa 22
6 - Fernando Alonso 18
7 - Nico Rosberg 12
8 - Romain Grosjean 9
9 - Adrian Sutil 6
10 - Paul di Resta 4
= Nico Hülkenberg 4
12 - Sergio Perez 2
13 - Jenson Button 2
14 - Jean-Éric Vergne 1
15 - Valtteri Bottas 0
16 - Esteban Gutiérrez 0
17 - Jules Bianchi 0
18 - Charles Pic 0
19 - Giedo van der Garde 0
20 - Max Chilton 0
21 - Daniel Ricciardo 0
22 - Pastor Maldonado 0


1 - Red Bull / Renault 66
2 - Lotus / Renault 40
3 - Ferrari 40
4 - Mercedes 37
5 - Force India / Mercedes 10
6 - Sauber / Ferrari 4
7 - McLaren / Mercedes 4
8 - Toro Rosso / Ferrari 1
9 - Williams / Renault 0
10 - Marussia / Cosworth 0
11 - Caterham / Renault 0


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Thanks for starting this thread, yet again!
Glad the 3 weeks wait is over!

I wonder if the RBR-saga continues in China!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently onlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3076 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 1):
I wonder if the RBR-saga continues in China!

It probably will, especially after this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106631

But you know what? I'm loving it. I do not believe Vettel did anything wrong by disobeying team orders to take the win, because that's what racing drivers are supposed to do. The difference between world champions and the rest is that the former is prepared to win at all costs if that's what it takes.

There's nothing wrong with having teammates that can't stand each other's presence. In fact, it adds spice to the racing. Neither is going to want to back down for the other now, it's going to be pedal to the mettle from start to finish, and may the best man win. This is exactly how racing should be done.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Red Bull have a secret communication channel between the driver and the pit it would seem - they've taken the interesting step of taking one of the unused settings on the ECU, programming it to do literally nothing, and giving the driver the ability to toggle it on the steering wheel - the ECU telemetry is encrypted, so other teams don't get access to it, so the driver can indicate to the pit a lot of information about tyres, speed, condition etc without having to resort to the radio (which other teams can listen in on).

User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

And Seb has recanted his whiney insincere apology...

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 2):
I do not believe Vettel did anything wrong by disobeying team orders to take the win

Not a big fan of team orders but do see a place for them when they think there might be something to conserve like fuel or tyre wear and where racing each other has the possibillity of neither car finishing.
By all reports RBR made that call and their hot headed "no 1 driver" decided to ignore it.
After the race in Sepang he was all whiney and contrite about how he didn't mean to and it was all a big mistake and he was sorry for what he did.
What a load of BS.. now he is saying it was revenge for MW not supporting him in the past and how Mark didn't deserve to win.

Grow up Seb... until you develop some moral fibre you will never be one of the Greats no matter how many races or championships you win!!

It is time Seb stops modeling himself on his recently retired (re-retired) hero... someone with unquestioned talent and results to prove it but very real questions about their ethics and morals!(Actually real convictions not questions)



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently onlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3015 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting stealthz (Reply 4):
What a load of BS.. now he is saying it was revenge for MW not supporting him in the past and how Mark didn't deserve to win.
http://www.planetf1.com/editorial/8609604/Was-Webber-Goading-Vettel-

There's a rather interesting take on the situation on Planet F1.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6014 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Is it poor form to hope for a bout of Shanghai belly for either Jenson Button or Sergio Perez, just so we can have another family dynasty in F1?  

Kevin Magnussen, son of Jan Magnussen (who raced for McLaren & Stewart in the mid-to-late 90's and who's currently doing motorsports racing with Corvette) is apparently the stated third driver for McLaren in both the Chinese and Bahrain GP  


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12639 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2928 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So, Hamilton takes pole, confirming that the Mercedes looks pretty strong on this track. A very tactical Q3 with Vettel electing to not set a time and start on the harder tyres (a minor error in not setting a time then allowing Button to set a very slow time to finish ahead).

Q3 result:
1. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes - 1:34.484
2. Kimi Raikkonen - Lotus - 1:34.761
3. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari - 1:34.788
4. Nico Rosberg - Mercedes - 1:34.861
5. Felipe Massa - Ferrari - 1:34.933
6. Romain Grosjean - Lotus - 1:35.364
7. Daniel Ricciardo - Toro Rosso - 1:35.998
8. Jenson Button - McLaren - 2:05.673
9. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
10. Nico Hulkenberg - Sauber

So with Button & Vettel on the harder tyre, the race could get interesting when the front-runners tyres die after just a few laps.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

###NEWS### Webber sent to the back of the grid for fuel irregularity!

I wonder if Vettel's gamble works out......9th is not very good, with all the risks of the 1st corner etc.

Alonso looks as strong as ever, I have my sincere doubts whether Kimi and Lewis can match his race pace!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2784 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 8):
Alonso looks as strong as ever, I have my sincere doubts whether Kimi and Lewis can match his race pace!

Maybe Kimi could keep up with him, the Mercedes... not so much, they seem to be very fragile this season.

Anyways, I look forward to an interesting race tomorrow morning (setting alarm up at 8:00am) and hopefully the Ferrari´s will do a grand job.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1415 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Did you know that the last 4 deaths of British Prime Ministers have been followed by a victory for the team from Enstone?

Edward Heath, July 17, 2005 (Alonso wins German GP in Renault)
James Callaghan, March 26, 2005 (Alonso wins Bahrain GP in Renault)
Alec Douglas-Home, October 1995 (Michael Schumacher wins Pacific GP in Benetton)
Harold Wilson, May 1995 (Michael Schumacher wins Monaco GP in Benetton)

Also (though it was a different team technically) the first race held after the death of Clement Attlee in October 1967 was won by Jim Clark in a Lotus.

Bodes well for Kimi.....



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 9):
Anyways, I look forward to an interesting race tomorrow morning (setting alarm up at 8:00am) and hopefully the Ferrari´s will do a grand job.

They did. Almost as convincing as RB last time. Forza Ferrari! After the first two races I thought this season might become the same shit as the last years, but this GP was promising, so it might be worth to switch on the TV again.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2784 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

Quoting na (Reply 11):
They did. Almost as convincing as RB last time. Forza Ferrari!

Yes!! 

Excellent drive by Alonso, he knew what he had to do and did it seamlessly, shake off Kimi in the start and then Hamilton would be a piece of cake.

So exciting watching Alonso overtake Vettel with such ease, who would´ve thought that would happen a few seasons ago? and laugh of the day goes to Alonso as well:

Fernando, you are xyz seconds faster in each sector, no need to push...
I´m not pushing...

LOL!

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12639 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2729 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So what happened to all the investigations for use of DRS under yellow flags?


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 8):

Alonso looks as strong as ever, I have my sincere doubts whether Kimi and Lewis can match his race pace!

It's nice to see my crystal ball working!

Impressive performance by Ferrari, I think this year's car matches the RBR.
Great drive by Alonso, but I give a lot of credit to the car as well!
Just so typical that Massa can't pull it off.



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6730 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

I watched this in the afternoon, on my computer, I could go back and all, but still, I struggled till the end to know the real order of pilots, really confusing ! Massa even asked about it at one point on the radio !

Nice win for Alonso, and nice save from Kimi, ending up where he started despite a crappy start (apparently caused by the team) and a crash ! I hope Grosjean can figure out where his settings went wrong, and maybe get a new chassis if he believes the current one is faulty.

RBR will certainly not have convinced Webber and us that they treat their drivers the same !



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 13):
So what happened to all the investigations for use of DRS under yellow flags?

Nothing. FIA let everyone off because they don't had a proper system in place while they sort out their telemetry and automatic marshalling system.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12639 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2575 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting bill142 (Reply 16):
Nothing. FIA let everyone off because they don't had a proper system in place while they sort out their telemetry and automatic marshalling system.

So the FIA cannot disable DRS? I must admit I naively assumed that if Race Control say DRS cannot be used that the drivers would be unable to deploy it. So it seems drivers can break the rules with no risk of being punished.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 17):
So the FIA cannot disable DRS? I must admit I naively assumed that if Race Control say DRS cannot be used that the drivers would be unable to deploy it. So it seems drivers can break the rules with no risk of being punished.

Actually it's not that simple.

The FIA can disable DRS during the race.

The system that allows or does not allow DRS to be opened when the car is one second or less from the car ahead does work. It won't allow DRS activation if at more than one second from the car ahead.

What's not working (has been disabled) is the automatic marshalling on the dashboard of the cars. The dash of all cars have yellow, blue and red lights for each type of flag. These have been disabled as the FIA's electronic equipment is faulty. Therefore drivers are currently relying on the real flags.

Because the DRS system also uses the electronic marshalling system, the DRS system never "saw" the yellow flags because the system for these flags was disabled. Therefore it allowed DRS activation on the simple condition that A. DRS system was enabled (after the first few laps in the race) and B. car was less than one second ahead. The C. condition (flags) was always respected - not ignored, but respected, as the data in the dash of the cars basically said there were no flags.

In computer language, you'd get:

- DRS button press (anywhere between DRS time check and DRS activation line)

if yellow, red, blue flags = 0 and gap to car ahead is equal or less than 1 second and general DRS = 1

then activate DRS when passing DRS activation line

Hope this is clearer.



Cheers
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2562 times:

Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

About time. I like him, but its clear to see he´s no match (anymore) for Vettel. So either he agrees to be no.2 or leaves. No other option left.


User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):

What's not working (has been disabled) is the automatic marshalling on the dashboard of the cars. The dash of all cars have yellow, blue and red lights for each type of flag. These have been disabled as the FIA's electronic equipment is faulty. Therefore drivers are currently relying on the real flags.

Part of this included the ability to disable DRS. Even though race control sends messages that DRS is disabled, the drivers can still deploy it and they rely on the teams to tell their drivers. Until they fix it, FIA should be able to broadcast a radio message to all drivers at the same time that DRS is disabled as work around.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12639 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2528 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting bill142 (Reply 21):
Until they fix it, FIA should be able to broadcast a radio message to all drivers at the same time that DRS is disabled as work around.

An even simpler solution would be to have a marshall positioned at the start of the DRS zone and have him wave a yellow flag whenever DRS is disabled. In the case of China, the DRS zone starts a long way ahead of the hairpin where the yellow flags were being waved.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 18):
Actually it's not that simple.

It worked last year... they have had telemetry issues this year but IMO it is a fail on the part of the FIA/FOM etc

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

The rumours, well front page in Nat online newspapers speak of a 5 yr deal with Porsche.. along with the Aust Nat Broadcaster.. despite the denials from Porsche the red flag for me is the "5 yr deal", from my understanding MW is not a long term contract kind of person.
May believe this rumour when I am in Eastern France in 2014.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 23):
It worked last year... they have had telemetry issues this year but IMO it is a fail on the part of the FIA/FOM etc

The FIA switched telemetry providers this season, hence all the issues. I'm betting they are currently regretting it, and some account manager somewhere is being leaned on very very heavily indeed!


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 19):

Mark Webber is calling it a day in F1 at the end of the season, moving to other motor sports.

I think his time was done. It's a wise decision.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 23):
The rumours, well front page in Nat online newspapers speak of a 5 yr deal with Porsche.

So a return to Le Mans then. I'm sure he remembers well the last time he's been there:

Not bad the view from up there!



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 22):
An even simpler solution would be to have a marshall positioned at the start of the DRS zone and have him wave a yellow flag whenever DRS is disabled. In the case of China, the DRS zone starts a long way ahead of the hairpin where the yellow flags were being waved.

My understanding is that the drivers became under investigation because they were using DRS in the second DRS zone which was green flagged. I don't agree with deploying a yellow flag in an area that doesn't need it, such as the second DRS zone, as it's going to artificially influence the race.

Quoting moo (Reply 24):
The FIA switched telemetry providers this season, hence all the issues. I'm betting they are currently regretting it, and some account manager somewhere is being leaned on very very heavily indeed!

I believe the switch was necessary as part of the changes for 2014. Everyone is using an ECU designed for next season already.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 4):
And Seb has recanted his whiney insincere apology.

He never misses an opportunity to demonstrate that, all the while being a fantastic driver, he is also an immature child still. If anything, he has made sure that the rumored switch to Ferrari shall remain that, a rumor, for years to come, until he demonstrates that when he is told to jump, he understands the only acceptable answer in Maranello is "yes Stefano."

Quoting bill142 (Reply 21):
FIA should be able to broadcast a radio message to all drivers at the same time that DRS is disabled as work around.

I don't believe they have the technical ability to do that. What they can do is blast an email, which is how team managers and race stewards stay in touch during races. The problem of course is when to make it effective. All teams monitor their email for race communication, but they don't all necessarily react at the same time, and in a sport where hundredths matter, we could see a team inform one driver that DRS has been disabled as per the email they just received, while the driver is being passed in the DRS zone by another driver whose team is only reading the same email themselves.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12639 posts, RR: 46
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2413 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting bill142 (Reply 26):
My understanding is that the drivers became under investigation because they were using DRS in the second DRS zone which was green flagged.

The fact that the drivers would have been given a green flag after they cleared the incident at the hairpin was no indication that they could then use DRS. If race control disallow the use of DRS, then it's off everywhere.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 26):
I don't agree with deploying a yellow flag in an area that doesn't need it, such as the second DRS zone, as it's going to artificially influence the race.

If, as in China, the drivers have passed a green flag between DRS zones WHILE DRS IS STILL DISABLED, then the purpose of a yellow flag at the start of the DRS zone would be to remind the drivers that they cannot use DRS. They would not have to reduce speed and they would be allowed to pass, just not use DRS. If the use of yellow is an issue, maybe it just needs to be a different colour?

All I'm saying is that if race control do not currently have the ability to inhibit drivers from using DRS, then they should have the ability to visually indicate to the drivers at the start of the DRS zone that it is currently disabled. The drivers and teams would then have no excuse or cop-out for using DRS when it's not allowed.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 28):

The problem is that the FIA bundled the DRS control system into the in-cockpit notification system, without a thought as to how to control it if that system was not operational - simply relying on existing flags doesn't work as we have discovered at China, and introducing a new flag at short notice would be difficult.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 26):
I believe the switch was necessary as part of the changes for 2014. Everyone is using an ECU designed for next season already.

An update to the telemetry system was required, but not a wholesale switch to a new provider - and that is what has caused the issues in these first three races. The new provider didn't get it right.


User currently onlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2382 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR



Quoting blueflyer (Reply 27):
He never misses an opportunity to demonstrate that, all the while being a fantastic driver, he is also an immature child still.

Hardly. If anything, it demonstrates that he has the determination to win at all costs, even if it means destroying his teammate. That determination to succeed is what marks a champion apart from the also rans.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 27):
If anything, he has made sure that the rumored switch to Ferrari shall remain that, a rumor, for years to come

I never took the Ferrari rumours seriously. Why would Vettel (or anyone, for that matter) consider going to Ferrari to be Alonso's lackey? It just doesn't make sense.

[Edited 2013-04-16 07:45:37]


Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6730 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
Hardly. If anything, it demonstrates that he has the determination to win at all costs, even if it means destroying his teammate. That determination to succeed is what marks a champion apart from the also rans.

On the other hand his seat is safe. If Webber had done the exact same thing the end result career wise might have not been the same.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5715 posts, RR: 44
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2254 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
Hardly. If anything, it demonstrates that he has the determination to win at all costs, even if it means destroying his teammate.


It is not the team mate issue, his employers gave him an instruction based on their determination of what was the best for their business.. he disobeyed those instructions.
Try that where you work!!
It has been reported that Red Bull boss, Dieter Mateschitz, threatened to pull out of F1 and close the team down if there was a repeat of the Malaysian GP farce.. long thought that DM & Red Bull were mere dilletantes in F1 , time will tell.

Interesting watching press conferences and reading Red Bull statements since Malaysia.. even in recent seasons.. Team Principal Christian Horner.. words & body language.. almost think he is on Mark's side, just not upto saying so because he is aware of which puppet master controls the cheque book.

DM is in thrall (seemingly less so as time passes) of Helmut Marko who is in turn obsessed with the idea of a German superstar in his own image.
Since Dr Marko could not achieve his own aims in F1(not his fault or lack of talent) he has been obsessed, over decades, of achieving his lost potential by proxy.
Just hope the current crop of Marko proxies enjoy longer and healthier careers than previous generations.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12639 posts, RR: 46
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2245 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting moo (Reply 29):
introducing a new flag at short notice would be difficult.

Imagine the next drivers' briefing - "Guys, this here is the new orange flag. It means DRS is currently not allowed." There, that wasn't very difficult, was it?   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4021 posts, RR: 4
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 33):
Imagine the next drivers' briefing - "Guys, this here is the new orange flag. It means DRS is currently not allowed." There, that wasn't very difficult, was it?

Have you done all the requisite testing with that flag? Is it reasonable to expect it not to be confused with a yellow or red flag at speed? Do the marshals know what to do with it? How are you communicating that to the teams and officials?


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1415 posts, RR: 4
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 34):
Have you done all the requisite testing with that flag? Is it reasonable to expect it not to be confused with a yellow or red flag at speed? Do the marshals know what to do with it? How are you communicating that to the teams and officials?

Rule changes aren't unprecedented before the race though- I think the drivers could handle it. It would just require some extra work on the team's part to remind the driver to watch for orange flags if there were an incident.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 34):
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 35):

I think the suggestion of an orange flag was just that. A Suggestion. The flag could be any colour and something could be agreed with the teams and drivers that would work. But the FIA are probably confident of resolving the issues sooner rather than later.


User currently onlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
It is not the team mate issue, his employers gave him an instruction based on their determination of what was the best for their business.. he disobeyed those instructions.
Try that where you work!!

What was best for their business was to have both cars finish 1-2, thus maximising the points. It mattered not which order they finished in. Vettel saw an opportunity to overtake Webber for the win and he took it, but preserved the team's 1-2 finish at the same time. That was never at any risk.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
It has been reported that Red Bull boss, Dieter Mateschitz, threatened to pull out of F1 and close the team down if there was a repeat of the Malaysian GP farce.. long thought that DM & Red Bull were mere dilletantes in F1 , time will tell.

I have little doubt that it's only a matter of time before Red Bull pull out of F1. When they stop being as successful (or profitable) as they are now, Dieterich Mateschitz would have no hesitation in pulling the plug. But I believe the "farce" he was referring to wasn't the fact that Vettel disobeyed team orders, but that there were any team orders at all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22109935

Quote:
Red Bull will reduce the use of team orders after owner Dietrich Mateschitz intervened in the Sebastian Vettel row.

Mateschitz has agreed with principal Christian Horner that Red Bull will change how they use the orders.

Horner said: "I had discussions with Dietrich and we agreed that Red Bull is not a fan of team orders.

"Therefore we will not impose team orders at the end of a race. However, we expect the drivers to act on the information they have from the team."
Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
DM is in thrall (seemingly less so as time passes) of Helmut Marko who is in turn obsessed with the idea of a German superstar in his own image.

Why would he? Dr Marko isn't German.



Boeing 777 fanboy
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
F1 2013: Autralian Grand Prix posted Fri Mar 15 2013 07:27:47 by GrahamHill
F1 2010: Chinese Grand Prix Shanghai posted Tue Apr 13 2010 06:20:33 by MadameConcorde
F1 2009:Chinese Grand Prix posted Mon Apr 6 2009 08:51:11 by Alessandro
F1 2008: Chinese Grand Prix posted Wed Oct 15 2008 12:28:59 by BlueElephant
F1 2012: Brazilian Grand Prix posted Sat Nov 24 2012 04:30:17 by CXB77L
F1 2012: Korean Grand Prix Yeongam posted Thu Oct 11 2012 11:51:22 by MadameConcorde
F1 2012: Japanese Grand Prix Suzuka posted Fri Oct 5 2012 00:47:29 by MadameConcorde
F1 2012: Singapore Grand Prix posted Sat Sep 22 2012 07:56:51 by scbriml
F1 2012: Belgian Grand Prix posted Sat Sep 1 2012 06:47:27 by CXB77L
F1 2012: Hungarian Grand Prix posted Sun Jul 29 2012 00:26:09 by CXB77L