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Venezuelan Presidential Elections 2013  
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

Hello.

This coming sunday the 14th, the Venezuelan people are called to elect their new leader following the death of Hugo Chavez, the candidates are Henrique Capriles Radonski, a 40 year old lawyer and former Governor of the Miranda State, he ran against Hugo Chavez on the last elections in October and managed to get 44.3% and Chavez 55%

This time tho the candidate (chosen by Hugo) to ¨continue¨ his legacy is 50 year old Nicolas Maduro, a former bus driver and unionist for the Caracas Metro, he became a follower of Hugo Chavez and has been put in different offices during his tenure.

The campaign has been very short since it only started on April 2nd and ended this past thursday, Henrique managed to visit every single state in Venezuela attracting tens of thousands of people hoping this time he can win the elections and bring Venezuela into the correct path of prosperity, security, and equality.

Capriles has promised that he will revamp and continue with some of the missions Chavez started (housing, schooling, etc) and also promised a complete re-structure of the legal system in order to tackle the extremely high level of crime in the country, he also promised an inmediate 40% increase in basic salary for every worker, he claims that by ending all the free oil to Cuba and free flow of cash to other countries he could instead redirect the income into the people of Venezuela.

Maduro on the other hand, only talks about the continuation of the Chavez legacy, he declared himself his ¨son¨ and claims Chavez himself appeared before him as a little bird.

The opposition (Capriles) this time seems more organized and have been calling for fair and clean elections since it is well known that the Electoral Committee is pro-oficialist and they have uncovered some questionalble practices regarding rigging of the elections, they also had to fight against the advantage towards the officialism when they abuse state funds, media, and money for their campaign machine.

I hope Capriles wins and the officialists accepts the defeat, honestly Venezuela is completely broken after 14 years of mismanagement by Chavez, he used the funds of oil to finance other ally countries instead of benefitting the people of the country, violence is out of control, basic food items are hard to find, local industry is scarce and basic services have become very unreliable due to lack of investment.

The country desperately needs a change and a new leader with fresh ideas to rebuild the country.

What´s your view?

MIAspotter.


I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1615 times:
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I really hope Capriles loses. And let me qualify that statement:

The Venezuelan economy is in shambles, and basically held up by pins. It´s going to implode after the elections. If Capriles wins he will be the one who will have to manage the implosion and take the harsh measures needed to put it back on track, as well as enforcing them, he will be giving Maduro and his minions every reason to make give his government hell.

Better let Maduro handle that. Better let him waste and spend all his remaining political capital in enforcing the brutal austerity needed in the Venezuelans so they can finally see what a sham they´ve been living on under Chavez. No matter how many little birdies come to talk to Maduro.

Then, when it´s finally a desperate situation (and it will soon become that) Capriles can take over and start afresh, with no blame placed on him.

I hope I´ve been clear on why I think Capriles should loose. If I haven´t, let me know and I can expand on it.



MGGS
User currently offlineaerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2809 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

Interesting view.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
Better let Maduro handle that. Better let him waste and spend all his remaining political capital in enforcing the brutal austerity needed in the Venezuelans so they can finally see what a sham they´ve been living on under Chavez. No matter how many little birdies come to talk to Maduro.

I don't know if he would bother with austerity...why would he change the Chavez way?

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
Then, when it´s finally a desperate situation (and it will soon become that) Capriles can take over and start afresh, with no blame placed on him.

I think it's already gone beyond desperate....



Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
The Venezuelan economy is in shambles, and basically held up by pins. It´s going to implode after the elections. If Capriles wins he will be the one who will have to manage the implosion and take the harsh measures needed to put it back on track, as well as enforcing them, he will be giving Maduro and his minions every reason to make give his government hell.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
Better let Maduro handle that. Better let him waste and spend all his remaining political capital in enforcing the brutal austerity needed in the Venezuelans so they can finally see what a sham they´ve been living on under Chavez. No matter how many little birdies come to talk to Maduro.

It is a valid point and one I pondered shortly after Chavez´s passing, but... lets analyze in detail.

Yes the economy is in shambles due to the lack of investment (and knowledge) by part of the current administration, they rather give away money to their friends than putting it to good use in the country.

If Capriles wins, some strict measures will be needed and he will have to make it clear during his inauguration speech, if his proposal of stopping giving away oil for free and giving money to Bolivia, Nicaragua, etc to re-invest in Venezuela works, then little by little things could start improving, Venezuelans desperately want a change and I guess we are willing to give Henrique a chance.

If Maduro wins, then they can continue improvising, they may cut down on gifts but nonetheless go along covering holes where they come up, and I am afraid Maduro could declare a total Socialist / Communist state (that was Chavez´s routemap) and then, 2-3-4 years down the line the people of Venezuela will not have a chance to kick him out of office (unless violence erupts)

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
Then, when it´s finally a desperate situation (and it will soon become that) Capriles can take over and start afresh, with no blame placed on him.

It is a desperate situation now, 2 devaluations, lack of basic foods, power outages, violence, lies, etc etc, Venezuelans know that the current situation was brought upon by the Chavez´s administration and that it cannot be attributed in any way to Capriles.

And hopefully during Caprile´s term he can uncover some of the hidden trash left behind by the Chavists, so that the people can open their eyes.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
I hope I´ve been clear on why I think Capriles should loose. If I haven´t, let me know and I can expand on it.

You have don´t worry.

But I want to be optimist and hope for the best (a Capriles victory) at least we will know that if in 2 or 5 years we are still in a worse condition we can say ¨Hey Capriles... sorry, but you have not done any good and it´s time to give another person a chance¨ instead of being shot in the face by Maduro, or being labelled a traitor and being put in prison.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

And surprise surprise... Maduro wins with a very dubious 50.66% over Capriles with 49.7% some 230000 votes difference, now in civilized countries this will call for a second round of voting, but in Venezuela where the constitution can be modified/moulded/interpreted in order to suit the inmediate needs of the officialist party I very much doubt there is a statememt regarding this.

Capriles has not recognized the results and have called for a recount of 100% of the votes, funny thing is, the voting ballot boxes are now under guard by the Bolivarian National Guard (read Chavez´s army) so there is ample time to swap boxes and put in fake votes.

He also reported some 3000 incidents during voting, like officialist supporters showing up on Electoral Centers to intimidate voters, of buses full of Cubans with fake ID cards jumping queue to vote, and of ¨dissapearing¨ ballot boxes and a misterious ¨internet shutdown¨

I don´t know what will happen next, but I feel very dissapointed that ¨some¨ Venezuelans are so blindingly stupid to vote for a candidate that has absolutely no clue how to run a country, I guess they will now live of little birds and whistling for the next 6 years while the country continues to fall apart.

I am a Venezuelan and I feel sorry to see my country turned into what it is today.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13940 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
I really hope Capriles loses. And let me qualify that statement:

The Venezuelan economy is in shambles, and basically held up by pins. It´s going to implode after the elections. If Capriles wins he will be the one who will have to manage the implosion and take the harsh measures needed to put it back on track, as well as enforcing them, he will be giving Maduro and his minions every reason to make give his government hell.

Better let Maduro handle that. Better let him waste and spend all his remaining political capital in enforcing the brutal austerity needed in the Venezuelans so they can finally see what a sham they´ve been living on under Chavez. No matter how many little birdies come to talk to Maduro.

Then, when it´s finally a desperate situation (and it will soon become that) Capriles can take over and start afresh, with no blame placed on him.

I hope I´ve been clear on why I think Capriles should loose. If I haven´t, let me know and I can expand on it.

I agree. In Germany after the Kaiser´s imperial rightwing wartime government had resigned in 1918, leaving the country in shambles, the social democrats took over because the country was descending into anarchy and civil war and they felt that somebody had to be responsible to get the country back into order. Of course, as the new government they had to do all the dirty tasks as well, as negotiating and acccepting the Versailles treaty and to deal with the massive inflation caused by the reparation payments demands.
This was later used by the rightwings (and the Nazis) to discredit them as being unpatriotic. They happily forgot who dumped the country into the mess in first place.

Jan


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1429 times:
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Things are not looking good. Nobody believes the result and the fact that they are declaring Maduro President TODAY speaks volumes.

Capriles has asked for the population to get out to the streets. How will the government react to this?

It´s bad.



MGGS
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1415 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):

It is bad, there are pictures showing the military burning ballot boxes, some were found on ditches on some roads, some were hid in officialist buildings, etc just to sabotage the recount Capriles is asking for.

I say, if they burn ballot boxes, then this elections should be called off, material Cannnot be destroyed less than 24hrs after the elections, I guess they should be kept for a certain time and ready to be shown in case a recount is demanded and everything has been certified.

But then again... welcome to Chavez's Venezuela.

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1405 times:
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Capriles voting acts give him a victory with a margin of 1%. It is estimated Maduro´s votes have been inflated by 550,000. And yes, ballots are being destroyed by the military, Cubans and other people.

Let´s hope this does not descend into civil war.



MGGS
User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

I'd be very interested in knowing which governments recognize the elections as legitimate. CFK from Argentina did and so did Ecuador (no surprises there) but I haven't heard of anyone else.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 4):
I am a Venezuelan and I feel sorry to see my country turned into what it is today.

I'm very sorry. I hope things don't get even worse... such flagrant corruption could bring a state of civil unrest at some point. How people could not see beyond Maduro's lies all along (since Chavez was in critical condition and he claimed that he had long talks with him) is beyond me.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
the fact that they are declaring Maduro President TODAY speaks volumes.

It sure does...  

[Edited 2013-04-15 15:59:38]


God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1375 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
If Capriles wins he will be the one who will have to manage the implosion and take the harsh measures needed to put it back on track, as well as enforcing them, he will be giving Maduro and his minions every reason to make give his government hell.

That crossed my mind as well. Of course Maduro will never admit responsibility for the state of things. It's always going to be the fault of the imperialists conspirators, the US, the opposition, etc. The announcements of "discoveries" of assassination plans and plots to destabilize Venezuela will be so many as to get boring after a while (if you ask me, they already are). Anything to come across as victims and never face up to the chaos they've created.



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 4):
And surprise surprise... Maduro wins with a very dubious 50.66% over Capriles with 49.7% some 230000 votes difference, now in civilized countries this will call for a second round of voting, but in Venezuela where the constitution can be modified/moulded/interpreted in order to suit the inmediate needs of the officialist party I very much doubt there is a statememt regarding this.

With only two candidates there can't be a second round, give me an example of a country where there would be ? Well some shady African country maybe, where elections are jokes too. 50% + 1 vote is all that is needed to win. In some countries (US) even with three/more candidates and nobody over 50% you don't get a second round, the one with the most votes wins.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 8):

Capriles voting acts give him a victory with a margin of 1%. It is estimated Maduro´s votes have been inflated by 550,000. And yes, ballots are being destroyed by the military, Cubans and other people.

Disgraceful, here is a link to a website of a well known journalist (Nelson Bocaranda) where they compile a selection of pictures showing ballot boxes being handled by the military or found on the roads.

http://runrun.es/uncategorized/67798...a-de-auditorias-voto-por-voto.html

Quoting AR385 (Reply 8):
Let´s hope this does not descend into civil war.

Me neither, but the people need to go on the streets and fight to defend their votes, of course the (Illegitimate) government has all the power to send the military and police to control the people.

There was a ¨Cacerolazo¨ at 8pm at the same time Maduro was being declared (illegitimate) president.

Quoting 757gb (Reply 9):
How people could not see beyond Maduro's lies all along (since Chavez was in critical condition and he claimed that he had long talks with him) is beyond me.

People did, just that the CNE (National Electoral Committee) which is an arm of the Chavists Gov manipulated the results.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
With only two candidates there can't be a second round, give me an example of a country where there would be ?

There were 2 or 3 lesser candidates more, they also did not take into account the blank votes nor the votes of those candidates, the results were very mish mash quick-let´s-say-something-now kind of thing.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1272 times:

UPDATES.

-So a few days have passed since the fraud, protests and riots have been happening in CCS and in other cities demanding the recount of votes which the Illegitimate first accepted, only to change his mind about it shortly.

-Capriles have gathered proof of all the incidents that happened during and after the electoral process, he has handed them out to the Electoral Committee (I suppose to be shoved in a drawer)

-The illegitimate has ordered a prosecution order towards Capriles, and the members of his campaign to be ¨Brought to justice for inciting terrorism and disobeying the results¨

-A few countries have recognized the illegitimate as president but do call for a recount and to end the confrontation. The USA has yet to decided to which the illegitimate said ¨get your noses out of our business¨

-Opposition supporters have been protesting by means of Cacerolazos, the illegitimate has ordered for officialists to infiltrate opposition rallies and start random acts of violence so they can blame the opposition.

-Members of the National Assembly have been denied their right of speech in the Assembly by the president Diosdado Cabello, he first asks if they recognize the illegitimate as President, if they deny, then he switches off his/her microphone. Some members have also been violently attacked INSIDE the assembly.

-The president of the Supreme Court has ruled out a recounting of the votes citing ¨that it is not stipulated in the constitution¨

As you can see, all in all a very peaceful and democratic state of affairs.

At this stage I do not want to have a recount of votes, I want this process to be called off and call for a new process under fairer conditions.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1249 times:
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Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 13):
The USA has yet to decided to which the illegitimate said ¨get your noses out of our business¨

Last ihe ard the US government was not going to recognize Venezuela´s until they do a recount.

What is shameful and profoundly embarrasing is what Cristina Kirchner said yesterday wheren she called on the US to butt out and then directed herself to Capriles and practically ordered him to accept the result of a legitimiate, peaceful and valid election. She is supposed to visit Venezuela as a show of support to Maduro on Firday. So now she is Venezuela´s spokeswoman?

I guess the Argentines can get an idea of what they can expect on 2015.

The OAS has accepted the result and the farce that is UNASUR is suppose to meet the today. Mexico has recognized and congratulated Maduro. I suppose this has to do with the long standing practice of the PRI of not interferring in other countries affairs. Still, I´m not happy.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 13):
At this stage I do not want to have a recount of votes, I want this process to be called off and call for a new process under fairer conditions.

At this stage, is a total fracture of the country is to be avoided, you are right. Either that, or the the military will be taking over soon.



MGGS
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1160 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

I wonder if Maduro keeps sending cheap oil to Cuba?

If he will then I'm very glad he won. In any case I hope he will be able to fight all the crime and corruption in Venezuela better than Chavez managed to do.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
What is shameful and profoundly embarrasing is what Cristina Kirchner said yesterday wheren she called on the US to butt out and then directed herself to Capriles and practically ordered him to accept the result of a legitimiate, peaceful and valid election.

Exactly, and also the hypocrisy of the illegitimate when Spain mentioned the results and Maduro threatened them until they recognized him as the (de facto) elected president... when Spain finally gave in, he is now a happy camper.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
She is supposed to visit Venezuela as a show of support to Maduro on Firday. So now she is Venezuela´s spokeswoman?

No, she is coming to secure her share of the cake... money money money!

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
At this stage, is a total fracture of the country is to be avoided, you are right. Either that, or the the military will be taking over soon.

I hope so, but half of the military is Pro-Chavez... but rumour has it, they are not happy with Maduro.

Oh and I just read that apparently they have backed out on that impeachment for Capriles... guess they knew as soon as they lay a finger on him, hell would break loose and in the eyes of the international community they would finally be seen as de-facto dictators.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4291 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
What is shameful and profoundly embarrasing is what Cristina Kirchner said yesterday wheren she called on the US to butt out

Not shameful. She just picked up quite well the art of the US government of "do as I say not as I do".

This has been standard procedure of the United States for the last 70 years.

Condemn others for going to war, but we go to war against international law.
Encourage separatist movements in other nation's regions/states, crushing any attempts by its states to secede.
Rail against off-shore banking secrecy in tiny islands, stand idle to the massive secrecy of banking in some of it's states.
Impose sanctions on dictators that don't have something of value (resource or political), keep those that do in power.

Shall I go on?

For the USA to even raise a finger would be preposterous as they have not a leg to stand on, in fact they don't have a floor under them.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1228 times:
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Quoting Derico (Reply 17):
Not shameful. She just picked up quite well the art of the US government of "do as I say not as I do".

This has been standard procedure of the United States for the last 70 years.

Condemn others for going to war, but we go to war against international law.
Encourage separatist movements in other nation's regions/states, crushing any attempts by its states to secede.
Rail against off-shore banking secrecy in tiny islands, stand idle to the massive secrecy of banking in some of it's states.
Impose sanctions on dictators that don't have something of value (resource or political), keep those that do in power.

Shall I go on?

For the USA to even raise a finger would be preposterous as they have not a leg to stand on, in fact they don't have a floor under them.

I´m sorry Derico, so you are saying that because the US government behaved in a certain way when then world was bipoar it is ok for Crisitina to do the same in 2013?. Specially when back at home she is putting in jail (with dubious motives now) the human rights abusers of the 70s?

Not only is she a hypocrite but if she stays the course she will be a collaborator and an enabler of an illegitimate government and a dicatorship. Kind of paradoxical really.



MGGS
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

Well the US is still choosing sides today. Without talking about this election, they never recognized Chavez as legitimate, and they always send money to opponents in many countries when they don't like the current leadership. When they like it, they sell/give weapons to crush the opponents.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 12):
People did, just that the CNE (National Electoral Committee) which is an arm of the Chavists Gov manipulated the results.

A majority of people probably did, but Maduro still has millions behind him, manipulation or not. It's similar to the situation in Russia.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 12):
There were 2 or 3 lesser candidates more

I didn't know that, so nobody has 50%+1 I guess.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1190 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
Mexico has recognized and congratulated Maduro. I suppose this has to do with the long standing practice of the PRI of not interferring in other countries affairs. Still, I´m not happy.

Yeah, bad idea right there. Sometimes it's better to shut up and let the dice fall where they may.


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