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Annoyed In NJ About Car Window Tint Snafu  
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

I know I'll take heat and insults for this admittedly whining rant but so be it. My dealer, Toyota Of Morristown, offered a window tint option through them in August 2011 which I paid $299. for and which included tint on ALL side windows which I wanted to reduce interior heat, then unaware of the NJ window tint laws. I picked up my Prius in Sept. 2011, assuming all was legitimate with it. This past February, I was ticketed by an officer of the Hanover Township, NJ police force when I drove through their DMV checkpoint for having front driver and passenger side tinted windows, which I then learned are ILLEGAL in NJ. I was fined $54. and had to spend an unnecessary over 2 1/2 hours in court because that officer, #0761, Paul Gundersdorf, screwed up the ticket with a mandatory court appearance. Not only did he not apologize for his snafu, but local Judge Bryan O'Toole was unsympathetic and condescending when I tried to explain the facts. Moreover, I'm seething that an awful lot of drivers seem to be getting away with dark front tinted windows by having either PBA or "Go" cards apparently often issued to family members of cops to present if they get pulled over. I'm trying to get my dealer to get to the bottom of the 3rd party tinter's error but I already had them pull off the front side window tint since I felt I'd be ticketed again. I HATE the car without the tint in front; it's a lot hotter inside when parked in the sun now. Did I need to do that or should I have tried to get a PBA card with a donation to the local cops, also? I hate the idea of the PBA card; it's basically favoritism and denotes unfair enforcement of the law. However, full tinted windows are everywhere in NJ, despite the law. It amazes me that as long as I've been around, I didn't know about PBA cards or police shields on car windshields. I plan to make a complaint to the PD and the judge about my court appearance but I also plan to dig into the PBA card issue and whether it's being applied in my area. What do any of you think of this? Do you think I'm being ridiculous? Thought I'd take some heat for this but I'm soliciting opinions. It seems aftermarket window tinters around here will do all car windows, regardless of the illegality of tinting the fronts.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

I have a pet peeve with tinted front and side windows. . Here in Hawaii it is allowed and it is infuriating to want to cross the street and not be able to see the driver to get 'eye contact' so he notices you. Too many times they are waiting for the pedestrian to cross and just sit there with the car stopped waiting for pedestrian to cross, When this happens to me I want to yell out "I CANT SEE YOU". This is even worse at night, I usually just wave them to go and will not move until they do so. Hawaii drivers are notorious for pedestrian accidents.

I think tinted windows should be banned. and in Hawaii allowing pax to sit open style in the back of a pickup zooming down the freeway is allowed too. crazy.

But sorry you had to go thru more hoops than you wanted to.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21791 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

I'll start by saying that the NJ law is a good one, for reasons of visibility (particularly at night). With that said, you should be very irritated with the dealer who did the tinting for not mentioning that it would be illegal in New Jersey (granted, lots of people buy cars in New Jersey that they'll drive in other states where the laws may be different, so I can see why they'd offer the service, but they should at least ask you if you'll be registering the car in the state and then let you know).

As far as the PBA cards or stickers go, they're corruption, plain and simple, and you have every right to be pissed about them.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1903 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

The way I read it, the dealer is entirely at fault for selling you illegal tints. I'd be hammering my fists on their desk, because without their indiscretions, you wouldn't have had this issue in the first place. It should be the dealer's responsibility to know the law.

I don't know what you're going on about the police for. It seems like a completely separate issue. It certainly isn't their fault that your dealer operates in a shady manner.


Quoting AvObserver (Thread starter):
should I have tried to get a PBA card with a donation to the local cops

Since when do two wrongs make a right?



Flying refined.
User currently offlinescrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

I believe any shop (at least reputable) here will make you sign a form acknowledging that you are purchasing a tint that is illegal according to our local laws. They'll gladly do it, but unless you didn't read what you were signing, you would know that it was illegal, although I do not believe that form is mandatory. It's a shame they don't have it there.

User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Almost all cars have slightly 'tinted' windows, the additional aftermarket tint is of questionable need.
I am very wary of any 'dealer installed' items, as they are often rip-off's, overpriced, oversold, and used to make more profit than be of any real benefit to the owner. That $299 they charged is probably $150 profit to them.
Better to have gone to an established aftermarket business that would do it so to meet NJ state standards and probably for cheaper.
Many states, including ban tints over a certain level or on side windows and windshields, to assure safety for police officers - like the ones you got pulled over by.


User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
I don't know what you're going on about the police for. It seems like a completely separate issue. It certainly isn't their fault that your dealer operates in a shady manner.

I think Mir answered that pretty well for me. It's favoritism and nephotism on the part of the cops; it's simply unfair to other motorists that friends and family members of cops get out of tickets with them.

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):

As far as the PBA cards or stickers go, they're corruption, plain and simple, and you have every right to be pissed about them.

-Mir


If anyone wants more detail from me about this, I'll direct you to another forum I posted the same rant on called Priuschat. http://priuschat.com/threads/whining...in-new-jersey.125339/#post-1784160

Thanks for your responses thusfar; I'm surprised I didn't get the ridicule I was expecting though I was very nieve about this.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7240 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Quoting AvObserver (Thread starter):
It amazes me that as long as I've been around, I didn't know about PBA cards or police shields on car windshields. I plan to make a complaint to the PD and the judge about my court appearance but I also plan to dig into the PBA card issue and whether it's being applied in my area.


Lots of people have things like this. Even I had a small decal on my front window I get for being a fairly loyal supporter of the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund. I have not gotten stopped by the cops in years (knock on wood) and I doubt that it would help me get out of a ticket. What gets me out of the ticket (at least in the past) was being polite, making the officer feel safe and maybe throw in a few things about looking into a career in law enforcement.
Anyway officers have full discretion and I have no problems with them letting other officers immediate families get off of stupid traffic tickets. I will say a tint ticket is stupid too, at least give a warning if they see it was your first time being stopped for it. Donate some money, get the sticker. I doubt it will help.

Quoting AvObserver (Thread starter):
Do you think I'm being ridiculous?


A little bit about the PBA card thing but certainly not about having to go to court or the dealer and the tints. If they did not inform you that the tints were illegal then you should get your money back and I would tell them to pay for your ticket. You purchased your car in NJ right?



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12260 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3775 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Did you really feel it necessary to name the officer and judge? Did that help your point at all?

That being said, I hate dark tint, as I can't see inside the car and if somebody is pointing a gun at me or not... You have dark tint, you get a ticket. Plain and simple.



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1903 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 6):
It's favoritism and nephotism on the part of the cops; it's simply unfair to other motorists that friends and family members of cops get out of tickets with them.

I never disagreed with that. It's definitely unfair. But why are you expending energy on the police's use of these PBA cards, when you should be going after this crooked dealer for selling you illegal tints? Your post just seems to change directions halfway through.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Did you really feel it necessary to name the officer and judge? Did that help your point at all?

  



Flying refined.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15809 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

Got to love the fact that a dealership can sell illegal window tints, but the feds will hand down a 24 year sentence to a auto shop owner who built hidden compartments in cars that were used for smuggling completely without his knowledge.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Quoting AvObserver (Thread starter):
I picked up my Prius

I'd ticket you for that transgression for starters!  

Supporting the MD State Troopers fund and having a nice little sticker on his side window didn't stop my pal getting a $300 speeding ticket. If you wish to support law enforcement benevolent funds then great, I'm sure they appreciate it, but if you think its a get out of jail free card....   



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Did you really feel it necessary to name the officer and judge? Did that help your point at all?

If the officer and judge did the right thing here they should be more than happy to be mentioned. Public servants are responsible for their performance of duty and transparency breeds self-correcting behavior.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
But why are you expending energy on the police's use of these PBA cards, when you should be going after this crooked dealer for selling you illegal tints?

Agreed, need to go after the dealer not buy a PBA sticker!

[Edited 2013-04-19 04:35:32]

User currently offlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2472 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

I like medium tints on all my cars. I don't really care what someone else thinks about 'visibility' or some self-righteous cop thinks about 'someone potentially pointing a gun.' Seriously, get over it. A lot of cops will ask you to roll down all your windows anyway if you have rear tints.

If you want to ride with tints, look into getting a medical exemption if allowed by your state.   

The judge and the cop shouldn't have been that way, but a lot of them are. File a complaint.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4043 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3691 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
Got to love the fact that a dealership can sell illegal window tints, but the feds will hand down a 24 year sentence to a auto shop owner who built hidden compartments in cars that were used for smuggling completely without his knowledge.

Theres always another side to the story - he absically knew that at least one client was using it for drug smuggling and continued to deal with him, as well as deciding to take on other obvious clients in a "no questions asked" basis.

Finding $800,000 in one gentlemens secret compartment should raise enough questions to begin with...

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/alfred-anaya/all/


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5594 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
It should be the dealer's responsibility to know the law.

I'm sure the dealer knows the law. The dealer can sell his tinting services to anyone who may drive in any state. It is up to the consumer to know the laws in his state. I'll agree that the dealer should have provided a notice that the level of tint offered was deeper than NJ state law allows.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 5):
That $299 they charged is probably $150 profit to them.

What's wrong with that? If they can get somebody to buy it, then, more power to them.

Quoting flymia (Reply 7):
What gets me out of the ticket (at least in the past) was being polite, making the officer feel safe and maybe throw in a few things about looking into a career in law enforcement.

I got pulled over for blowing through a red light at the bottom of a ramp. Big as day, went right through it while following a friend headed to a vacation spot. By the time the deputy was at my window; the window was down, the radio was off, my sunglasses were off, my wallet was on the dash and my hands were on the wheel. He asked me if I knew why I was pulled over. I told him; he told me to drive safely and have a nice day.

Quoting AvObserver (Thread starter):
I didn't know about PBA cards or police shields on car windshields.

These PBA stickers or FOP medallions or "buddy badges" have been around forever.

[Edited 2013-04-19 04:48:54]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4043 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
The way I read it, the dealer is entirely at fault for selling you illegal tints.

Nope - I can buy all manner of vehicles that would be illegal to drive in my locality, but that doesn't make their sale illegal.

For instance, I have a standard drivers license - but I can still buy a motorcycle (I'm not checked out on one), or a coach (I'm not checked out on one), or a articulated lorry (hell, definitely not checked out on one of those).

Its up to the owner to determine if the vehicle is legal when they drive it - that doesn't just apply when they drive it off the forecourt, it also applies to every single journey afterward. You could have the car serviced today, and tomorrow something might break which makes the vehicle illegal to drive - its still your responsibility. Or the servicing agent might have missed something, or you might think something is included when its not.


User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5579 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

Dark tint on front windows is a serious safety issue. Nice for the heat control, not allowed in most jurisdictions, for good cause.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
These PBA stickers or FOP medallions or "buddy badges" have been around forever.

Here in New Jersey a lot of people have these gaudy ass badges about the size of a dinner plate suction cupped to the inside of their front windshield. Whatever.


User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

The dealer (or third-party that put the tint on, I guess) probably didn't do anything illegal, so the OP would still be the one criminally liable (as an above poster said, ignorance of the law is almost never a valid defense). But, the dealer/third-party could easily face civil liability from the OP for this. Not a slam-dunk, but a good chance.


Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1903 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 13):
I like medium tints on all my cars. I don't really care what someone else thinks about 'visibility' or some self-righteous cop thinks about 'someone potentially pointing a gun.' Seriously, get over it. A lot of cops will ask you to roll down all your windows anyway if you have rear tints.

There's more to it than "someone potentially pointing a gun". For example, my province has "distracted driving" laws that prohibit any activity behind the wheel that would be distracting to the driver while operating a vehicle (using a phone, putting on make-up, etc.). Also mentioned by another poster was that with tints it makes it impossible to for them to see if the driver has noticed them as they're crossing the street.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
These PBA stickers or FOP medallions or "buddy badges" have been around forever.

I can't say I've ever seen them here. Maybe it's just an American thing?

Quoting moo (Reply 16):
Nope - I can buy all manner of vehicles that would be illegal to drive in my locality, but that doesn't make their sale illegal.

I never said the sale was illegal...what I said is that the dealer was at fault. Selling a product you know to be illegal without informing the buyer is doing business in bad faith. My next move would be to file a complaint with the local BBB, confront the dealership, and potentially look into civil action (I assume removing the tints wasn't free either).



Flying refined.
User currently offlineStarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3570 times:

I prefer to stick with factory tint in my vehicles vice the applied stuff (had the applied stuff on my first car and it turned out being a pain in the a**). Light for the front windows (that can be seen through) and darker for the rear windows (but not black). As was mentioned earlier I prefer to make eye contact with drivers not only as a pedestrian trying to cross the street but also as a driver to see if the other guy actually looked to see if anything is there before going and at 4 way stops.

Always hated the dark tint and am still trying to figure out why some of these people put the stuff on their headlights and taillights.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15809 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 14):
he absically knew that at least one client was using it for drug smuggling and continued to deal with him, as well as deciding to take on other obvious clients in a "no questions asked" basis.

All he did was see money, which is hardly enough to grounds to not do business with someone. And there's nothing wrong with not asking questions.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6826 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days ago) and read 3547 times:

I blame the police in NJ. They are way too powerful and the courts bend over backwards to cater to them.


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 1):
I think tinted windows should be banned. and in Hawaii allowing pax to sit open style in the back of a pickup zooming down the freeway is allowed too. crazy.

I think tinted windows should be banned; So do I !

In most states, anyone sitting in the bed of a P/U truck is unlawful UNLESS they have a proper safety belt on and fastened.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
That being said, I hate dark tint, as I can't see inside the car and if somebody is pointing a gun at me or not... You have dark tint, you get a ticket. Plain and simple.

I totally agree with this. I see an occasional stretch limo with side windows that are opaque from the outside; I think the driver should be fined, and the vehicle towed to an impound lot. There are about a dozen reasons why NO vehicle windows should be allowed to be opaque.............all having to do with common sense.



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
25 Post contains links fr8mech : Really? Actually, it really doesn't matter what the individual police officer thinks (though I'm pretty sure where a bunch of their minds are on this
26 flyingclrs727 : In Texas, the allowable tint in the driver's window and front passenger window is lower than the tint allowed in the rest of the vehicle. If I were yo
27 KaiGywer : True, however, the way the OP worded his post, he was trying to make them look bad. Sounds like someone is just bitter over getting a well deserved t
28 flyingclrs727 : The place I got my windows tinted gave me the maximum amount allowed in Texas. According to the salesman, the rear windows wouldn't be legal in Calif
29 KaiGywer : Another thing a lot of people don't think of is that the 50% (using our numbers) tint you can have applied is legal in and of itself. The problem is
30 AvObserver : Well, you may be okay with that but I'm not; it's nephotism, pure and simple and an indicator to me of possible other improprieties that cops may eng
31 AvObserver : Naming them alerts others nearby who may be reading this to be wary of this town; I don't see the harm in that. And the dark tint ticketing rationale
32 AvObserver : So would Superfly, in fact he'd likely sentence me to a year in jail for it. Oh no, I don't mean for moving violations or reckless driving. Just for
33 AvObserver : Per what I read, tinters are required to inform customers what's legal or not but can then still sell the customer whatever he/she wants if that cust
34 AvObserver : Been there, done that - already called Toyota's customer hotline. Tried that, too, my eye doctor was reluctant to fudge that. Oh indeed, I am doing t
35 Post contains links type-rated : If you notice a lot of gang bangers have their windows tinted as dark as possible. I think tinting in the first place is an attempt not to be caught d
36 flyingclrs727 : Lot's of people in Texas have dark window tint to keep the heat out in the summer. I wouldn't be surprised if tinting pays for itself in lower mainte
37 cptkrell : Quite simply, FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) regs specify max percentage of tint allowable for side windows and front windscreens, and
38 iowaman : Good thing you weren't stopped in Iowa - about a year ago I was stopped and issued at $131 ticket for 50/50 front window tint by a county deputy. He
39 RussianJet : I do love the way that the rather genuine concern of cops having a gun pulled on them (yes, cops get guns pulled on them, really) is dismissed as a '
40 KaiGywer : Funny story. Just today I saw one of those PBA cards for the first time with a NY driver here in ND...he still got arrested.
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