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Gun Battle In Seattle Apartment Block Leaves Five  
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 6 months 9 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Dead!

Quote:
Gunfire erupted at an apartment complex in a city south of Seattle and five people were shot to death, including a suspect who was shot by arriving officers, police said.

Officers responding to an emergency call at 9.30pm at the apartments in Federal Way encountered a chaotic scene, with bullets flying.

"When officers arrived there were still shots being fired," said Federal Way police spokeswoman Cathy Schrock.

They found two wounded men on the ground in a parking lot. One of the men reached for a gun as police moved in to assist the two, she said.

At that point, officers opened fire. The suspect died but police said it wasn't immediately clear if it was from their gunfire.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10879185

interesting times in the US, some things gotta give.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Thread starter):
interesting times in the US, some things gotta give.

Idk, after a high profile case like Newton Congress couldn't even pass something minor that most people supported.

Interestingly enough (and don't take it wrong, I support several common sense gun measures) this crime looks like it was committed with a shotgun and few of the gun laws I've seen would have prevented this (well, maybe background checks would have stopped him) but it wasn't an AR or something



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8320 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 2051 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Thread starter):
nteresting times in the US, some things gotta give.

Nothing is going to give as long as the money in the gun industry is so high. The NRA will continue to be fed by the industry and the politicians will continue to be lap dogs. That's the reality of the situation IMO.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Idk, after a high profile case like Newton Congress couldn't even pass something minor that most people supported.

As Deep Throat said, "Follow the money."

As I mentioned earlier, a million plus people have been killed with guns since John Lennon was shot to death. A million plus and politicians remain lap dogs. Nothing is going to change.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
Nothing is going to change.

Nothing will change with that attitude   It took a long time to get here. It will take a long time to get it "right."


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Interestingly enough (and don't take it wrong, I support several common sense gun measures) this crime looks like it was committed with a shotgun and few of the gun laws I've seen would have prevented this (well, maybe background checks would have stopped him) but it wasn't an AR or something

The man had a concealed carry license, he had already been through every background check they have. No laws short of complete gun confiscation and shutting every border would have prevented this. Why the Kiwi is worried enough to start a thread is the most interesting part of this story.

Quoting cmf (Reply 5):
Who provided them with guns? Would they have done it if they knew there was a good chance they would be traced back to them?

No, people selling hot guns don't worry much about traces.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

This guy could not have gotten this thing legally.

As I say all the time: "banning guns is sooooooo going to stop gun control, because criminals sure do follow the laws."  
And: this: " I left my gun on my front porch, loaded, with an extra round of ammo. When I came home that next day, my gun didn't kill anybody. Either other people with severe mental issues are misusing guns, or I have the laziest gun in the world."
 



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39905 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
how is that Obama taking away law-abiding citizens' right to own a gun?

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Where did I ever say otherwise in this thread? Let's stay on topic



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39905 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
I have the laziest gun in the world.

Be careful how you use that sentence.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 4):
Why the Kiwi is worried enough to start a thread is the most interesting part of this story.

A gun battle with 5 dead makes for something iunteresting. Better than a post on penis size isn't it?


User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1376 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1929 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
Interestingly enough (and don't take it wrong, I support several common sense gun measures) this crime looks like it was committed with a shotgun and few of the gun laws I've seen would have prevented this (well, maybe background checks would have stopped him) but it wasn't an AR or something

The problem is that even the most ardent supporters of gun responsibility make the mistake that it's any one type of gun at issue. It isn't. Pistols and Shotguns are as lethal as a Thompson when the ranges are close enough. Banning types will help a little here and there, but it won't solve the problem.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):

Nothing is going to give as long as the money in the gun industry is so high. The NRA will continue to be fed by the industry and the politicians will continue to be lap dogs. That's the reality of the situation IMO.

Indeed. When we have a situation where the will of 90% of the population is so easily subverted by Special Interest politics, we have a very serious problem, and one, unfortunately, that goes a long way past gun control.

Quoting cmf (Reply 3):
Nothing will change with that attitude   It took a long time to get here. It will take a long time to get it "right."

I think you're basically right, and that this is an issue for the long haul. In the end, people will make it clear that we have had it with crap like this, and it will become impossible to support anything other. But, as you say, it will be a while.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 4):
Why the Kiwi is worried enough to start a thread is the most interesting part of this story.

Probably because he wants to, that's why. This is a forum that has open discussions about penis size and lambo cop cars. Do we really need to care who starts what?

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 9):
A gun battle with 5 dead makes for something iunteresting. Better than a post on penis size isn't it?

Lol, looks like you beat me to it...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14060 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

"Battle" implies that several shooters were involved and that bullets were fired in various directions. Could it be that it was some turf war between criminal gangs or an argument between criminals?

Jan


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 10):
Quoting cmf (Reply 3):
Nothing will change with that attitude   It took a long time to get here. It will take a long time to get it "right."

I think you're basically right, and that this is an issue for the long haul. In the end, people will make it clear that we have had it with crap like this, and it will become impossible to support anything other. But, as you say, it will be a while.

Unfortunately, I don't think anything is going to change at least anytime soon. The USA must realize what everybody with an IQ in excess of two digits has already realized: That many parts of the constitution are bullshit. I hate Bill Maher as a person but I agree with him saying that the founding fathers could not have foreseen a civilized society with police, the FBI, CIA and the US army. They could also not have foreseen Montana or Vermont - states that have the same representation as California or New York.

If you want things in the USA to change, you will need to address the issue at its core which is the constitution. Furthermore, there is no way around establishing a multi party system. Those 8% of gun nuts need their own ''gun party'' to vote on this particular issue, so that other people who feel socially conservative about gay marriage, abortion or whatnot, could vote for a party that focuses on that. In the end, parties with similar ideas would form a coalition.

But until such a time has come the Democrats can't do anything about guns because their voters don't feel strongly enough about gun control that they would not vote for them over not passing it, while the Republicans are all paid by the NRA.

All guns need to be confiscated and destroyed in a similar manner to what Canda, the UK, Australia and a ton of other countries have successfully done in the past. Every other demand is unreasonable.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 4):
No, people selling hot guns don't worry much about traces

You think they find those guns on trees? Just about every gun used in crime start as a legal gun.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 4):
Why the Kiwi is worried enough to start a thread is the most interesting part of this story.

That isn't interesting at all. Why you try to limit who should be involved in the discussion is of some interest.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
I left my gun on my front porch, loaded, with an extra round of ammo.

Why there must be storage requirements.

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 9):
The problem is that even the most ardent supporters of gun responsibility make the mistake that it's any one type of gun at issue.

How is background checks, registration and storage requirements a one type of gun issue?

Quoting something (Reply 11):
All guns need to be confiscated and destroyed in a similar manner to what Canda, the UK, Australia and a ton of other countries have successfully done in the past. Every other demand is unreasonable.

This isn't the solution and it certainly isn't what Canada, etc have done. There are plenty of reasons for guns as it relates to hunting, sports and even safety. The problem is that too many are abusing it. It is the abuse that needs to be addressed. It means drastic change to how guns are used in this country but certainly doesn't mean removal of all guns.


User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1376 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 12):
How is background checks, registration and storage requirements a one type of gun issue?

It isn't. But the conversation is centered too much around things like assault rifles (just as an example).


Of course in real life we know that registrations must include every type of firearm to be effective, as should background checks, though I feel that the type of backgrounding done is too non-specific and ham-fisted in its approach to be useful. I'm not saying that can't be updated, but it's interesting to note that no one seems very concerned about the fundamental inadequacies involving that at this time.

Storage requirements also need to be made more prominent as well. When we have folks on this site that think it's perfectly dandy to bring their weapon to a gun-free school zone or any gun free establishment just because they have a CCP (which in principle they should not have the moment they opine that way), that is also a huge problem.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Be careful how you use that sentence.

  
"THIS IS MY RIFLE, THIS IS MY GUN, THIS IS FOR FIGHTING, THIS IS FOR FUN"

Quoting cmf (Reply 12):
Why there must be storage requirements.

It's a facetious joke! Holy crap  

Would this be any better?
"I gave my gun a seat, a table with food, and plenty of bullets and placed it at the head of the table at my family's latest dinner party. Everyone showed up, including the cousin who I really really hate for slapping my son across the face. Surpringly to me, the gun didn't move at all, touch its food, or much less, shoot anyone at the party, despite even my hated cousin being present."

Better?  



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7550 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 14):
"I gave my gun a seat, a table with food, and plenty of bullets and placed it at the head of the table at my family's latest dinner party. Everyone showed up, including the cousin who I really really hate for slapping my son across the face. Surpringly to me, the gun didn't move at all, touch its food, or much less, shoot anyone at the party, despite even my hated cousin being present."

You forgot to add the bit where at the end of the party you picked up your gun in a fit of joyous merryment and shot your hated cousin in the face blowing his brains all over the desert.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 13):
But the conversation is centered too much around things like assault rifles

Why did you bring it in to this thread then?


[quote=PHX787,reply=14]It's a facetious joke! Holy crap
Is it? Or is it another attempt at making an point without standing up and defending it? Getting rather tired of all the narrow minded people thinking that versions of "criminals do not follow the law" is an argument, hidden behind an attempt at making a joke or not.


User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8181 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Meanwhile other places in the world are never having this conversation. Such is life.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

My thoughts are with the families and friends of those that died.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
As I say all the time: "banning guns is sooooooo going to stop gun control, because criminals sure do follow the laws."

In that case, why does society make cocaine, meth, ecstasy etc illegal? People will still use them.

Quoting something (Reply 11):
I hate Bill Maher as a person but I agree with him saying that the founding fathers could not have foreseen a civilized society with police, the FBI, CIA and the US army. They could also not have foreseen Montana or Vermont - states that have the same representation as California or New York.

Agreed. I also don't think they would have foreseen how much more powerful (and therefore potentially deadly) guns would be today.

Just my 2c.

[Edited 2013-04-23 07:19:05] Edited for punctuation/grammar.

[Edited 2013-04-23 07:19:47]


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1376 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 16):
Why did you bring it in to this thread then?

I didn't. It was a response to someone else's mentioning that this event was likely committed with a shotgun or pistol and not an AR.

When I say "conversation", I'm not referring specifically to this thread, but the issue of responsible gun usage in general. My point was that even those of us in favor of more responsible regulation tend to get focused on types; as though shotguns and pistols are somehow not lethal too.

I hope that clears this up.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Quoting something (Reply 11):
They could also not have foreseen Montana or Vermont - states that have the same representation as California or New York.

Then maybe it's time to break the country up. Make it 50 individual countries, or let states go together to be their own country. Because the people who have wants and needs in NYC generally aren't at all in line with my wants and needs in rural America.

-DiamondFlyer

[Edited 2013-04-23 09:36:09]

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
Make it 50 individual countries, or let states go together to be their own country.

Xenophobia rarely cures life's ills.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Thread starter):
Gunfire erupted at an apartment complex in a city south of Seattle and five people were shot to death

That's the same number of people killed in Boston (excluding gunman). Who ever did this used a weapon of mass destruction.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
Xenophobia rarely cures life's ills.

It's not Xenophobia. Its a simple understand that, while the idea of one country was a good idea 250 years ago, it may not be now. Face it, what the people of NYC need, want and require is vastly different than those of us who live in the country. But again, it comes down to the fact that the people who have done nothing but lived in a city for their entire life simply don't understand life outside the big city.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20728 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 23):
It's not Xenophobia.

Xenophobia = Fear of what's foreign or strange. You've expressed fears on this board of what may happen to your property should laws become enacted that you perceive are necessary for NYC but not for where you live.

It's just a word, and was used properly within this context. Nothing to fear from it.



International Homo of Mystery
25 cmf : What is so different? I have lived in large cities and small villages on multiple continents and in the end it is all very similar.
26 DiamondFlyer : Again, stop putting words in my mouth. But that seems to be all you can do, when speaking to someone who is ideologically different from you. Many, m
27 AeroWesty : I've given you the definition of the word. It was correct. Did you not express a fear in another thread that the recent gun registration law which fa
28 DiamondFlyer : I didn't express any fear, but merely an opinion. Where did I ever use the words, I'm afraid. Stop putting words in my mouth. If you continue to do s
29 cmf : Really? Why so vague? It isn't vastly different. Slightly different ways to do some things but in the end more similar than different. Maybe you do n
30 Post contains images AeroWesty : LOL! So instead of recognizing a fear as a fear, or providing an alternate definition that would be a more accurate description of how you view your
31 SmittyOne : At the time of the Constitutional Convention Virginia had at least ten times the population of Delaware. This is why we have a bicameral legislature
32 roswell41 : There are deranged people in this country and myriad reasons why. The reasons are too numerous to write about here. Our first order of business should
33 Mir : And vice versa. Doesn't mean we can't get along. What would really make them safer is if the rural states (and some of them aren't even that rural) w
34 seb146 : And drunk drivers still drive. So, make cars illegal. Right? If meth, cocaine, ecstasy, etc. were taxed and regulated by the government, fewer people
35 kiwirob : So if it was a toss up between removing cars from the public or removing guns which would you prefer?
36 AeroWesty : That's not even a valid question. What do you do about the violence culture is the right question. We've seen an example of it even right here in thi
37 seb146 : That's a no-brainer. People who operate autos MUST be licensed by the state AND insured. They must prove they can operate their vehicle in a safe man
38 cptkrell : cm; re: your Reps 25 & 29: A thought about "different". When I was living in Dearborn, Michigan I didn't have to worry about stepping on a 5-foot
39 cmf : Hi Jack, Stepping on a rattlesnake, you need to keep your eyes and ears open . Remember to keep them open also in the city as wild animals are no str
40 Starbuk7 : Yea, right. You know how many people I see EVERY day that supposedly have licenses and insurance the probably and most likely should NOT be behind th
41 cptkrell : cmf; Hi, there. I don't like shooting the rattlers either and it was only necessary one time in some dozen encounters to protect one of my dogs. It's
42 SmittyOne : FWIW, only on public roads. You can drive a car on your own property all you want without a license, registration etc. Whether that is or should be a
43 seb146 : Kinda like guns. There are people out there who stockpile guns because the government is going to send the troops they love so much to get their guns
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