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Abortion Dr. Gosnell Trial; Murder Of Newborns  
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39698 posts, RR: 75
Posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Very sensitive subject and I just want to say that I am pro-choice but this Dr. Gosnell trial is way over the top.
Newborn babies born crying during late term abortions were killed by Dr. Gosnell. Cutting and the spinal cords with scissors, cutting off feet and even killed several of his patients. Unsanitary conditions of his clinic.

Many of the images I've seen, they were too graphic to post in the non-av forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgGS429gUJ4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvmQsM6qVZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdgaf9dhJs

[Edited 2013-04-24 08:58:51]


Bring back the Concorde
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Very sensitive subject and I just want to say that I am pro-choice but this Dr. Gosnell trial is way over the top.
Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Many of the images I've seen, they were too graphic to post in the non-av forums.

Yes, it is vile and unbelievable. I have been following news of it for awhile now, it is just almost unbearable to read and learn about. That he could do this and do this for years is absolutely disgusting.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21521 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

This is a textbook example of why abortion should be legal. Because if it weren't, guys like him would be the only ones out there.

He's an absolute monster, and I hope he gets his ass handed to him by the courts, and then again in prison.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

I hate to wave my Christian flag but you can now see why we are so against abortion. Some people have complete disregard for life. Life is a precious gift.

There are many couples in the world who would readily accept an unwanted baby. You don't have to kill it.

I also wonder why in America it takes the police so long to discover these terrible acts even when evidence is piling up all around them.


User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2673 times:
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Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
There are many couples in the world who would readily accept an unwanted baby.

Like a gay couple?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
There are many couples in the world who would readily accept an unwanted baby.

Like a gay couple?

Just because someone is a Christian doesnt mean theyre against gay rights and gay adoption. The Catholic Church is the main sect still stuck in the stone age. Ive seen GLBT banners hanging from the more progressive Christian institutions as well as Synagogues.



So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
There are many couples in the world who would readily accept an unwanted baby.

Unfortunately I am not sure the statistics line up in an even match.

There are also highly complex legal issues and costs surrounding adoptions that puts a very high hurdle on many people that would be willing to talk on these children. This is why in the US, many adoptions are from foreign countries. It makes it less likely that the parents will pursue the child or a relationship with them, as well as keep their rights as parents intact over the birth mother.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Very sensitive subject and I just want to say that I am pro-choice but this Dr. Gosnell trial is way over the top.
Newborn babies born crying during late term abortions were killed by Dr. Gosnell. Cutting and the spinal cords with scissors, cutting off feet and even killed several of his patients. Unsanitary conditions of his clinic

Very sad situation, and some of the supposed cohersion that went into getting them to have abortions. Not to say these mothers are saints and unculpable, but they basically sold abortions like big macs.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39698 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
I also wonder why in America it takes the police so long to discover these terrible acts even when evidence is piling up all around them.



Not sure if the police are to blame in this one. He was operating in a low-income neighborhood and off the radar. Many of his patients were very poor, illegal aliens, minors and so many were just unaware.
Yes his acts were just beyond what is acceptable to rational minded human beings. What is even more shocking to me is how only right-wing news sources were talking about it.
There was a moment of clarity about lack of media coverage from MSN host Marc Lamont Hill.



“For what it’s worth, I do think that those of us on the left have made a decision not to cover this trial because we worry that it’ll compromise abortion rights. Whether you agree with abortion or not, I do think there’s a direct connection between the media’s failure to cover this and our own political commitments on the left. I think it’s a bad idea, I think it’s dangerous, but I think that’s the way it is.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ade-a-decision-to-not-cover-trial/

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Because if it weren't, guys like him would be the only ones out there.



So why is he out there performing abortions illegally?

Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
it is just almost unbearable to read and learn about. That he could do this and do this for years is absolutely disgusting.



Tell me about it!
I could have gone in to more detail in the OP but it's so vile that it may break the forum rules.

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
I hate to wave my Christian flag but you can now see why we are so against abortion.



No need to be ashamed of your Christian beliefs. Although I am pro-choice, I do not support this at all. This 'doctor' is a murderer.

I am sure Margaret Sanger is proud....

[Edited 2013-04-24 10:16:43]

[Edited 2013-04-24 10:17:51]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
I hate to wave my Christian flag but you can now see why we are so against abortion. Some people have complete disregard for life. Life is a precious gift.

There are many couples in the world who would readily accept an unwanted baby. You don't have to kill it.

I think everyone agrees with you in this situation, but that is not the issue involved with "abortion", the question has always been about when do fetal cells become a "being". These babies were just that, babies, living, ready to breathe (and some did so), they were human beings and what this man did is inexcusable.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Not sure if the police are to blame in this one. He was operating in a low-income neighborhood and off the radar. Many of his patients were very poor, illegal aliens, minors and so many were just unaware.

From what I have read they were several times over the years that the state and city agencies became aweare of something regarding this mans operation and they basically failed to properly follow through. But additionally that there were employees that not actively bring this to light is also sad and so wrong. people ithat sasw this first hand should have been first and fortright in helping bring awareness to the wrongs that were occurring.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What is even more shocking to me is how only right-wing news soures were talking about it.
There was a moment of clarity about lack of media coverage from MSN host Marc Lamont Hill.

“For what it’s worth, I do think that those of us on the left have made a decision not to cover this trial because we worry that it’ll compromise abortion rights. Whether you agree with abortion or not, I do think there’s a direct connection between the media’s failure to cover this and our own political commitments on the left. I think it’s a bad idea, I think it’s dangerous, but I think that’s the way it is.”

I tend to disagree with him.
I first learned of this from "non-right wing" sources a while ago, they have been reporting it. I have listened to coverage of it on the radio too via what many would consider "liberal" sources. It is that the subject is disgusting and hard to read and see and really learn about, that I think most have steered clear of it. They may be wrong for doing so but it is a problem for media nowadays, all types and "sides", as they like to report what will get them "eyes". Shocking people is one reason why this re-emerged as a "pop-topic" on many sites. Additionally there is an attempt to get people to be angry at the lack of coverage, which is more palatable and "engaging" than the acts involved. SO the story is about the coverage and not the acts (but it then becomes about that I hope).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What is even more shocking to me is how only right-wing news soures were talking about it.

Really, hmm, I recall coming across this story some time ago. Looking back in the New York Times index, their first story on it was in January 2011:

Squalid Abortion Clinic Escaped State Oversight

They just didn't use it for political spin, that's all.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2576 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2592 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
I hate to wave my Christian flag but you can now see why we are so against abortion. Some people have complete disregard for life. Life is a precious gift.

I don't think you should apologize for your beliefs.

(The rabid atheist in me can't believe I just said that.)
  


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39698 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2590 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 8):
additionally that there were employees that not actively bring this to light


Some of them were as young as 15 years old. Probably afraid and really wanted the money. Not sure.

Quoting tugger (Reply 8):
Shocking people is one reason why this re-emerged as a "pop-topic" on many sites. Additionally there is an attempt to get people to be angry at the lack of coverage, which is more palatable and "engaging" than the acts involved.


I've been following this for almost a month now. I just now decided to start a thread about it. I don't want this to devolve in to a pissing match of which news source is better. The focus needs to be on Dr. Gosnell.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I've been following this for almost a month now. I just now decided to start a thread about it. I don't want this to devolve in to a pissing match of which news source is better. The focus needs to be on Dr. Gosnell.

  
I 100% agree Supe', you are right.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAviRaider From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days ago) and read 2548 times:

I heard this not too long ago on talk radio and just listening to the witness testimony from the trial was shocking it made me cry a little. I just couldn't believe someone could be so callous and to kill crying babies is just unthinkable. I'm pro-life and this just tears me up because I do disagree with the practice but this just cements it even more for me.

User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8692 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days ago) and read 2542 times:

From what little (before I had to stop) I've read on the web, this man killed unwanted living, breathing babies. That is murder, it has nothing to do with abortion. An embryo at an age of, say, three weeks is a completely different issue - all it is is an embryo with the potential to become a human being.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I don't want this to devolve in to a pissing match of which news source is better.

So why did you bring it up in the first place?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What is even more shocking to me is how only right-wing news sources were talking about it.

Why make this political? Isn't it horrible enough as it is?

[Edited 2013-04-24 11:38:52]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19408 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 14):
From what little (before I had to stop) I've read on the web, this man killed unwanted living, breathing babies. That is murder, it has nothing to do with abortion.

Bingo. End of thread.

This is not about abortion.

I can walk up to a 44yo man and shoot him in the head and call it "abortion," but it doesn't make it so.

This was murder.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21521 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 3):
I hate to wave my Christian flag but you can now see why we are so against abortion. Some people have complete disregard for life. Life is a precious gift.

I actually can't see why this justifies an anti-abortion position. I haven't heard a single person defending what this guy did, not even pro-choice people. This guy is not representative of abortion doctors. He will be, though (at least to a greater extent) if abortion is banned, though. Because when the scrupulous doctors can't do the procedures anymore because of the law, types like him will be all that are left. You can't tell me that's a good thing.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
So why is he out there performing abortions illegally?

Because he's a sick individual, and nobody would let him get away with what he wanted to do if he tried to do it legally. Thus, he did it on the quiet.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineaflyingkiwi From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
End of thread.

Why?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
This is not about abortion.

Question for you. What is the stage when it doesn't become abortion? When the baby leaves the womb?, 6 months into the pregnancy? Just wondering.

[Edited 2013-04-24 14:30:07]

User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8692 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

Quoting aflyingkiwi (Reply 17):
What is the stage when it doesn't become abortion?

Again, this thread isn't about abortion, it is about infanticide. The murder of newborns. The wilful killing of human beings during the first moments of their lives.

Whatever your stance on abortion is, please do not drag this case into the discussion.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
This is not about abortion.
Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
this thread isn't about abortion

For his trial, Dr. Gosnell is also charged in the 2009 overdose death of a 41-year-old refugee who died from an overdose of Demerol during an abortion, just months after coming to the U.S. How can this thread not be about abortion? It's even in the thread title.

[Edited 2013-04-24 15:13:47]


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7824 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

I think this definately is a thread about BOTH infanticide and abortion. He did perform many "late term abortions." In fact, it said he sometimes induced birth and then killed them. What is the difference between aborting an 8 month fetus and inducing birth and then killing it?

Luckily, most civilized people are against late term abortions. While I disagree with abortions in general, I can at least comprehend why some people see early term abortions as ok and don't see them as killers. But reaching the point of late term, IMO, is just as bad as what this guy did



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

'Fly...thread starter. Agree; didn't even want to get envolved with topic because it almost reeks of the atrocities of Joseph Mengele. This very disturbing to me. Murder, indeed.

But, since I am posting, I also agree with DocLightning (Rep 15), but really wonder about the mt99 (Rep 4) post ..."Like a gay couple?" Geeze, that doesn't even dignify a response but here I am (almost) dignifying by asking "are you goofy serious or just plain goofy?" regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
For his trial, Dr. Gosnell is also charged in the 2009 overdose death of a 41-year-old refugee who died just months after coming to the U.S. How can this thread not be about abortion? It's even in the thread title.

I guess my question would be: If a doctor kills someone, is it really an issue with and about doctors and their practice (whatever it may be) or the act and action?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
I think this definately is a thread about BOTH infanticide and abortion. He did perform many "late term abortions." In fact, it said he sometimes induced birth and then killed them. What is the difference between aborting an 8 month fetus and inducing birth and then killing it?

Luckily, most civilized people are against late term abortions. While I disagree with abortions in general, I can at least comprehend why some people see early term abortions as ok and don't see them as killers. But reaching the point of late term, IMO, is just as bad as what this guy did

I guess I need to know what the medical requirements are for a legal or "approved" late term abortion? I am like you, and I also know that many states have limits on the time that an abortion is allowed. In this case I get the impression that Gosnell (I really can't call him a doctor) is more a psychopath that liked killing.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8692 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Luckily, most civilized people are against late term abortions.

I can only speak for myself, obviously: a late-term "abortion" is not an abortion, it is infanticide. AFAIK, an eight-month-old fetus has a very high chance of surviving without any complications; that's why killing one would be murder under most conceivable circumstances.

But an embryo in its seventh week? That's not yet a human being, so that abortion won't kill anyone.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
While I disagree with abortions in general, I can at least comprehend why some people see early term abortions as ok and don't see them as killers.

Exactly.  Where there is no life, you cannot take it. Gosnell did take lives, that is the reason why this case is not about abortions.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7824 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 22):
I guess I need to know what the medical requirements are for a legal or "approved" late term abortion? I am like you, and I also know that many states have limits on the time that an abortion is allowed. In this case I get the impression that Gosnell (I really can't call him a doctor) is more a psychopath that liked killing.

At the very least it should be at an age where NO baby/fetus feels pain. I'm pretty dead set on that. Beyond that, I'll be against it but I won't let the country burn arguing about that

(IDK if that makes sense or not)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
25 AeroWesty : Nothing wrong with gay adoptions. Dr. Gosnell's patient who died did so as a result of an abortion. His clinic was obviously substandard, and catered
26 cptkrell : Aerowesty (Rep 25) sez "Nothing wrong with gay adoptions." Right you are, in my view. My post (Rep 21) was in reference to mt99's Rep 4 which I think
27 Post contains links and images OA412 : Agreed. Because the government won't pay for abortions for poor women, and he was charging quite a bit less than legitimate abortion clinics. http://
28 jagflyer : Although I fully condemn the practice Gosnell had made for himself, one has to wonder why so many of these late term abortions were performed. Surely
29 ltbewr : The graphic horrors of this clinic sounds like the medical experiments during WW II by Germany and Japan. It is well beyond any ethical and moral beha
30 Post contains images Superfly : Actually the anti-abortion crowd is vocal about the amount of abortions are performed period. Stop making this a race issue. You heard directly from
31 AeroWesty : I'm a bit confused by this. I posted a link above from 2011 when the NY Times first reported the issue. The trial has been reported as a factual even
32 Boeing717200 : You can't ignore an inner city clinic if you didn't know it existed in the first place. It is truly amazing the case has progressed for this long wit
33 Post contains images WestJet747 : I was eating while I watched those news clips and I had to stop. What that man did actually made me feel sick. Now that he is caught and will most cer
34 cptkrell : WestJet747 (Rep 33): Yes, I see your point now. I knee-jerked at mt99's reference to gay couples as a slam and responded accordingly. To your point ab
35 Post contains links AeroWesty : It's my belief that this is one of the major reasons why this story didn't gain as much national traction as it would have normally. Besides it being
36 Post contains images aloges : Later than 24 weeks? Good grief... AFAIK, the latest time in Germany is after 12 weeks, which is already well beyond the end of embryogenesis (i.e. q
37 Post contains images Superfly : Agreed. At least some media insiders didn't make a secret about their reasons for ignoring the story. Sorry I should have warned you all about the gr
38 Post contains images AeroWesty : LOL, right, people like Anderson Cooper who ran a whole segment on it, just totally ignored the story. The story has been reported on factually in th
39 na : Absolutely horrible. Good Lord. I wont have a look at those videolinks. I am not against abortion in the first two months when life is just a bunch of
40 Superfly : Relax Westy. No one is saying that it was totally ignored. Some think that a case this serious deserves more attention. For some of us, it's pretty cl
41 AeroWesty : Well this is your thread, and you've made the point that this murder story hasn't been covered because it would disrupt into an abortion debate that
42 Post contains images Superfly : Dude, are you here to have a discussion about the trial or simply take me on for starting the thread? Which one is it? I can only go by what they say
43 aerorobnz : The key thing here is that they were able to survive outside the womb, that makes them no longer a parasitic lifeform which can only survive in the w
44 AeroWesty : Relax, dude. I've asked very simple questions. I think the murders are horrible. I also think that there needs to be something done about what drove
45 Post contains images Superfly : Those were the most rated G links I could find. Some reports get really graphic. Agreed. Does't Planned Parenthood offer free abortions to poor women
46 Post contains links AeroWesty : Nope. Free birth control in some places, but not free abortions. In-Clinic Abortion Procedures
47 Superfly : Thanks for the link.
48 OA412 : No, and as I mentioned in reply 27, the government won't pay for abortion either. This was one of the big drivers behind Gosnell's ability to do this
49 Superfly : Was their no oversight? In his mind, he thinks he's done no wrong and has pleaded 'not guilty'. He honestly thinks he was operating within the law.
50 Mir : It seems pretty clear that his mind is a sick place, and that anything that comes out of it should be treated as not in touch with reality. -Mir
51 aaron747 : Thank you for referring to him only by name. There is nothing about this man deserving of the M.D. title.
52 OA412 : I don't know. Unfortunately I have no idea how regulation of the medical industry works, but I'd assume there's got to be some oversight. It could be
53 Post contains links PHLBOS : This just in: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...retch-into-10th-Day-207178491.html Opening excerpt: Former Philadelphia abortion doctor Kermit Go
54 Superfly : Good riddance! Let's hope he actually get's it.
55 zckls04 : No death penalty- life without parole.
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