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Icon: Land Rover Defender 110, Should I Buy It?  
User currently offlinethesultanofwing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5997 times:

Hey you,

I imagine there will be some 4 * 4 fans out there, perhaps even a Land Rover Defender owner / freak.

Tata will produce the Defender till 2015 only......I have been told!

An uphill battle......


I have been considering this icon for quite a while but it was always a tad too bare-bone-basic to my liking, and I went with a Mitsubishi 4 * 4 instead.
Then, I think in 2007; the "new" Defender came out with a new Diesel engine (hence the bonnet hump) plus a brand new dashboard. A buyer would need the some of the extra options though as the basic-version is exactly that: BASIC.
The roof in a different color than plain white, nice rims.....or electric windows: you pay!

I test-drove the "new" Defender 90 when it first came out in my country, nice!
But it broke my wife's bones in the rear, so I'd go 110, no doubt.



My question is: what is your opinion?
Are they reliable?
Or do they give the headaches that some people suspect with anything Land Rover?
Should I buy an icon before it disappears?

Thanks!

[Edited 2013-04-28 10:35:00]


I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11611 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5984 times:

Quoting thesultanofwing (Thread starter):
Are they reliable?

Insanely so. Several people I know have them for use on their farms. They get driven over ploughed fields, rough roads, kicked by cows, have sheep thrown in the back and generally get hammered day in and day out. They only get serviced when something goes wrong, and the last one they bought 8 years ago still hasn't had a service.

Quoting thesultanofwing (Thread starter):
Or do they give the headaches that some people suspect with anything Land Rover?

I've not heard this before about Defenders. Freelanders, Range Rooneys and the Discovery yes, they have not fared well, but the Defender is a soldier which takes some killing. Most things which need replacing arise from the driver getting cockey and doing something daft, like trying to drive over a tree or through a deep river.

Quoting thesultanofwing (Thread starter):
Should I buy an icon before it disappears?

I don't buy that they will disappear from production for good. To me it's a bit like the Twin Otter - the market for new models isn't great because even the old ones just won't die, so the second hand market is buoyant. But ultimately the only thing you can replace a Defender with is another Defender.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5955 times:

Quoting thesultanofwing (Thread starter):
Are they reliable?

My brother has owned a 2006 model 110 since new, he's never had a problem with it, it's regularly used to tow a 3000kg boat, he off roads it and uses it as a daily driver (not something I would do with it). I don't find them very comfortable, I hope you're not a big guy, anyone over 5'10 and about 90kg is going to feel very cramped behind the wheel.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5916 times:

Do you need its more or less unique features ?

Brilliant grip off road
Alloy body panels soak up punishment, scrapes and dents don't rust
Huge towing ability
Rear able to be hosed out in order to remove residue of dead sheep etc.
Pedals large enough to use when wearing wellies.
Able to have a full length roof rack fitted that can carry more on top than most vehicles can carry inside

If you need any of these its a good choice, as nothing else is quite so practical.

However, can you cope with the following:
Terrible comfort, driving position grim to say the least
Front visibility rather like driving whilst looking through a letter box
0 - 60 time you measure with a calendar.
terrible body roll on corners (due to excellent off road suspension)
1940's design, built using 1940's technology. It is possible to fill and sand down spot weld marks, Land Rover haven't quite grasped it yet though.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

I own a 1986 model 110 (before they were called Defenders). It is a bastard, since the original engine, the 2.5TD, the worst engine Landrover ever built, has been replaced with the 200TDI engine of the 1996 model. This engine again is, together with the ROW (rest of the world, as opposed to the EU and US versions) and British Army version´s 300TDI, maybe the best and most reliable engine Landrover ever built. As long as you replace the timing belt every 80.000 to 100.000 km and make sure that there is always enough oil in it, it will run forever. Unfortunately this engine, with it´s mechanical injection pump, doesn´t pass the EU and US emission tests. The newer TD5 (5 cylinder pump nozzle injection, electronic control) and TD4 (4 cylinders common rail engine, built by Ford) are less reliable and they are not really repairable in the field.
The V8 petrol engine delivers a lot of torque, but unfortunately uses a lot of fuel as well. I politely refused one because I don´t own an oil well. The diesel models are relatively economic with 9-11 liters for 100 km for a 2.5 -3-5 ton vehicle.
The basic design of the Defender is great, but, like many British cars, it suffers of sloppy manufacturing. One issue is corrosion of the internal door frames (due to historical reasons the body consists of aluminium sheeting over a steel frame), because they never isolated the aluminium from the steel, leading to dissimilar metals corrosion.
Older Defenders also suffer from electrical problems due to mthe use of components by the British manufacturer Lucas Electrics (Sir Lucas wasn´t for nothing known as the "Prince of Darkness"), though it became better when Bosch bought the company. Also Landrovers tend to leave oil stains wherever they are parked.
Most spare parts are very cheap, at least here in Europe, mainly because the truck´s main use as a military and utility vehicle, especially if you buy generic or aftermarket parts and not those with a LR logo on them.
Same as with the older Toyota Land Cruisers (aka the Bush Taxi), there doesn´t exist a proper replacement for the Defender. The trend goes to yuppyised wannabe 4x4 vehicles for cities. The German mountain rescue organisation has been forced to b uy old Toyota Landcruisers abroad and to modify them locally because they can´t find any modern truck suitable for their needs. Possible replacements might be the Tarpan Honker from Poland and the Iveco Massif.
The Defender is a slow truck on the road, so better get used to drive in the truck lane. If drive at more than 100 km/h
it becomes very noisy inside. It has a high centre of gravity, so if you go into a curve too fast, you can topple it over.
The springs arer very hard, because the truck has been designed to carry a ton of cargo. A few hundred kgs in the back make the ride much smoother.
Be prepared to do a lot of maintenance yourself, like lubricating the prop shafts every 5000 km and also, if it is a model with an older LT77 gearbox, to remove the transfer gearbox input shaft every 5000 km to lube the internal splines with grease or else you´ll end up with an expensive gearbox change due to wear of said splines. From a certain model on (I can´t be @rsed to look it up now) LR introduced to holes in the shaft, which allow gear oil to reach this area. Working under the car is quite easy, because there is lots of space.
You also have to adjust the rear drum brakes from time to time, butthis isn´t a big job.

I´m 6 ft tall and weighabout 87 kgs and I´m quite comfortable in the driver´s seat (with the seat fully back, there exist extensions for the seat rails, but I don´t use them). After long distance driving I feel more refreshed in my Defender than in a modern car in this semi reclined armchair position).

Hope this helps.

Jan


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Quoting thesultanofwing (Thread starter):
Icon: Land Rover Defender 110, Should I Buy It?

What the hell is wrong with you that you even have to ask? Of course you should buy it. Buy it before anyone tells you not to.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
The German mountain rescue organisation has been forced to b uy old Toyota Landcruisers abroad and to modify them locally because they can´t find any modern truck suitable for their needs.

That's rather stupid why don't they buy new 70 series vehicles, which are as tough as old nails, have been in production since 1984 and are probably what the German Mountain Rescue Service are buying second hand? They must have some rather special demands if something like a Hilux can't do the job, they are just as capable and as tough as the 70 Series.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
After long distance driving I feel more refreshed in my Defender than in a modern car in this semi reclined armchair position).

You must be the exception. Long motorway hauls are tiring to the extreme, Defenders wander all over the place. Don't get me wrong I do like them, they are very good at what they were intended to be used for but as a daily driver they are not in any way ideal.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

I have been using my 110 every day since 2007. I´m thinking about buying a Smart though as a second car. 95% of my trips are within 30 km around my home and I´m usually alone. I don´t need to drive 2.5 ton vehicle to buy groceries or to go to work.

Jan


User currently offlinethesultanofwing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the detailed answer!! Interesting read!

But the preventative maintenance you described, does this apply to the "new" models (2007 and up) as well?
Because others stated:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):

Insanely so. Several people I know have them for use on their farms. They get driven over ploughed fields, rough roads, kicked by cows, have sheep thrown in the back and generally get hammered day in and day out. They only get serviced when something goes wrong, and the last one they bought 8 years ago still hasn't had a service.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):

I've not heard this before about Defenders. Freelanders, Range Rooneys and the Discovery yes, they have not fared well, but the Defender is a soldier which takes some killing. Most things which need replacing arise from the driver getting cockey and doing something daft, like trying to drive over a tree or through a deep river.
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 2):

My brother has owned a 2006 model 110 since new, he's never had a problem with it, it's regularly used to tow a 3000kg boat, he off roads it and uses it as a daily driver (not something I would do with it).

So I still wonder, are the newer models pretty much maintenance free (like a modern car) in day to day use, or do I have to buy myself a good toolkit?

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 3):

If you need any of these its a good choice, as nothing else is quite so practical.

Fair points! Alas, I can't tick any of these boxes.....yet I still want one! What does that say about me!?

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 2):
I hope you're not a big guy, anyone over 5'10 and about 90kg is going to feel very cramped behind the wheel.

I don't remember that from the test drive.....but yes, maybe the extended rails are a good idea.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):

I don't buy that they will disappear from production for good.

Hope you're right!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):

What the hell is wrong with you that you even have to ask? Of course you should buy it. Buy it before anyone tells you not to.

I guess I'd better get my skates on and talk to the importer.......

I still wonder where they are built, in the UK; correct?



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
But ultimately the only thing you can replace a Defender with is another Defender.

Or a 70 Series Land Cruiser.

You won't see Defenders in the Aussie Outback very often but you will see 70 Series troopies everywhere, many held together with no. 8 fence wire and gaffer tape, they just don't die.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

The gearbox issues got fixed, but you still need a grease gun to lube the prop shaft universal joints. Even a modern Defender is essentially 1960s/1970s technology (with some reaching back to WW2). Btw., the brakes need getting used to as well.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
The German mountain rescue organisation has been forced to b uy old Toyota Landcruisers abroad and to modify them locally because they can´t find any modern truck suitable for their needs.

That's rather stupid why don't they buy new 70 series vehicles, which are as tough as old nails, have been in production since 1984 and are probably what the German Mountain Rescue Service are buying second hand? They must have some rather special demands if something like a Hilux can't do the job, they are just as capable and as tough as the 70 Series.

I understand that the same rules, which ban the introduction of LR Defenders in the EU also ban the older Toyotas, essentially all smaller trucks (less than 4-5 tons) with a ladder frame. While the ladder frame is very suitable to customised modifications, it is considered to be too sturdy in collisions, as it provides no crumble zone. The high ground clearance of these true off road vehicles also puts the front bumper at a height, which is bad if you hit a pedestrian. You might notice that all 4x4 vehicles sold in Europe during the last few years have pretty low ground clearance and have a self supporting body. This is one reason why LR killed the Defender in Europe. Production will end IIRC next year, as no new ones can be registered over here.
Existing ones are being grandfathered.

Jan


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
You might notice that all 4x4 vehicles sold in Europe during the last few years have pretty low ground clearance and have a self supporting body.

That's not true, there are a fair number of 4wd utility vehicles like the Toyota Hilux, Mitsuibishi Triton, VW Amorak ....... all built on separate ladder chassis which you can buy all over Europe.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
Iveco Massif

Not available since the Santana factory closed down.

The tooling was sold, IIRC, to some Iranian company.


User currently offlinethesultanofwing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

How is the fuel consumption of this Diesel?


I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5454 times:

I would only buy it if I owned a big property in Africa or something like that, certainly not as a car.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7145 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

Buy one and then go and drive to Dakar. I dream of driving a Defender around the whole of Africa - or the Bowler Wildcat equivalent.

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8184 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

The only negative comment I have heard in years is that you need to check the trade in value - the old "friend of a friend" comment was that it lost a lot of value.

As far as the white roof goes - that can be important in areas where it gets pretty hot. Half a century or so ago Gulf Oil ran a simple test on 2 identical Beech Kings. One had the top painted white and the other was left bare metal. The planes were left out in the Houston sun for a few hours and they found the King with the white top was 11 degrees cooler than a silver top. Figure out how that black top would be.

I can remember when we lived in PER you could but a second top for the Land Cruisers. That left an air gap between it and the "normal" roof.

As much as I love black I don't want it on my cars.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39675 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

Quoting thesultanofwing (Thread starter):

Nice looking vehicle! Go for it!
Will this Land Rover be safe in El Salvador? Is the place as violent as people say it is?
Considering this is an expensive truck, would it make you a moving target?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
The only negative comment I have heard in years is that you need to check the trade in value - the old "friend of a friend" comment was that it lost a lot of value.

Here they hold their value pretty much (or even increase in value) because of their cult status. Not bad for a machine developed as a farm tractor.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Will this Land Rover be safe in El Salvador? Is the place as violent as people say it is?
Considering this is an expensive truck, would it make you a moving target?

They are not so expensive when you buy them, especially the more utilitarian older models (lots of them have been build for construction companies, forest guards, fire brigades, police and the military as working vehicles). They keep their value though.

Quoting thesultanofwing (Reply 13):
How is the fuel consumption of this Diesel?

Mine, with the 200TDI engine, uses 9-11 leters of diesel for 100 km, depending on how and where I´m driving. I´m driving mostly country highway in rural area.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
I can remember when we lived in PER you could but a second top for the Land Cruisers. That left an air gap between it and the "normal" roof.

That roof was only available for the older Series Landrovers (Series 2 to Series 3), those with the recessed radiator grille, up to the early 1980s.

Jan


User currently offlinethesultanofwing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5273 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
I would only buy it if I owned a big property in Africa or something like that, certainly not as a car.

I see where you're coming from....the car doesn't make a lot of sense in the city.
I do quite a bit of rural driving too however.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):

As much as I love black I don't want it on my cars.

As an owner of 2 black cars in a warm country; I understand.
But nothing the AC can't fix, and it's the best looking color for most cars in my humble eyes.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):

Nice looking vehicle! Go for it!

Oh, it is! My doubt is the practicality!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):

Will this Land Rover be safe in El Salvador? Is the place as violent as people say it is?
Considering this is an expensive truck, would it make you a moving target?

Good question.
There are safety concerns, but so far I have had no issues with my (sharp looking) Mitsubishi 4*4.
Normally with a bit of common sense it's no problem moving around the country.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):

Mine, with the 200TDI engine, uses 9-11 leters of diesel for 100 km, depending on how and where I´m driving. I´m driving mostly country highway in rural area.

That's not so bad.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):

They are not so expensive when you buy them,

I'm thinking along the lines of US$60.000,- (give or take) for a brand spanking 110 with all the "goodies".
That is quite a lot of money; import taxes etc are quite steep.
With "goodies" I mean the stuff that can't be installed locally, the "internal options" I'd prefer to have factory installed.
I once received a quote for a "full" Defender 110 including, from the top of my head:

-A winch + bullbar
-The fancy rims
-Roof in the same color as the car
-Electric windows
-Stereo with USB connection
-AC
-Arm rest forward
-Mud flaps (you pay to drive the Land Rover name around)
-Central locking
-Steel light covers
-Checker plating
-Roof rack
etc etc.

I think the total exceeded US$90K. (!!).
But I have come to realize that of that list, a lot of money can be saved by buying a more basic version, and save $$$ for instance with:

-Spray painting the roof locally
-Buying "local" rims
-Installing the roof rack locally, as well as any checker playing etc
-Buying mud flaps and the steel mesh light covers from E-bay
-Installing the winch / bull bar of my present car
Etc etc.

The issue is that stuff like electric windows, AC, the central arm rest etc are still options that I'd need; driving the prize (and the import tax) up considerably.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):

I don't buy that they will disappear from production for good.

Apparently they are working on some kind of replacement.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/196221/l...er-defender-replacement-confirmed/



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11611 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
The only negative comment I have heard in years is that you need to check the trade in value - the old "friend of a friend" comment was that it lost a lot of value.

Here they hold their value pretty much (or even increase in value) because of their cult status. Not bad for a machine developed as a farm tractor.

They do in the UK too, better than most other cars.

Quoting thesultanofwing (Reply 19):
Apparently they are working on some kind of replacement.

Excellent, so long as the article is right that it won't look like the urban concept.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39675 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Quoting thesultanofwing (Reply 19):
Good question.
There are safety concerns, but so far I have had no issues with my (sharp looking) Mitsubishi 4*4.
Normally with a bit of common sense it's no problem moving around the country.

Well Mitsubishi isn't a high-end brand like Land Rover.
Yes we know that they have their stripped down utility line but a lot of criminals may not see it that way.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Well Mitsubishi isn't a high-end brand like Land Rover.

Land Rover isn't a high end brand either, that's why they have Ranger Rover.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 22):
Land Rover isn't a high end brand either, that's why they have Ranger Rover.

It's one of those things like BMW or Mercedes where they are considered more upscale in the US than elsewhere. I'd bet that most Americans, especially the ones buying Land Rovers, don't know what a Defender is. Here Land Rovers are for shopping, not land roving. We have Jeeps and Hummers for that.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

I would never install aluminium rims on my Defender. I use the, up to 2002, standard 7.50 R16 steel rims for tube type tyres and last winter I bought the British military "Wolf" rims (also used on the 130 model) for winter, since nobody manufactures snow tyres anymore in 7.50 R16.

Jan


25 dl021 : Just get the darned thing. It's a classic and it's awesome. They're incredible off road and up to hte challenge on any road. I drove one across southe
26 BMI727 : There are some grey market Defenders that made it over here, but they can be pretty pricey I think.
27 Post contains links and images dazbo5 : I love Defenders, I've been driving them for work for 15 years now. They are so capable and take loads of abuse. I drive both the 110 and 130, doing u
28 Braniff747SP : They where sold between 1993 and 1997 in the US. They can still be found, but they command similar prices to when they where brand new.
29 thesultanofwing : Bugger! Import taxes would still take it to $90K plus, according to the importer! I am double checking with other companies, but it doesn't look good!
30 MD11Engineer : The standard and the military steel ones are much more durable than the aluminium ones. Also, I don´t want my truck to be too pretty. It use it some
31 thesultanofwing : Fair enough! I thought you had a more technical reason as well, like "wider tires are bad off road" or something like that. The original (basic) tire
32 na : The Defender is an icon, no doubt. Lots of coolness. Its sad if production will stop. I once had a Defender in the best colourscheme of dark green/tan
33 Aesma : There is one in my street actually, and I'm nowhere near rough terrain (Paris' suburbs). It even has a roof rack with gas/diesel/water tanks and other
34 MD11Engineer : It really depends on the person. I´m 1,80m tall and I fit quite comfortably behind the wheel (having driven the Defender since 6 years now) Which is
35 Post contains images kiwirob : Depends on what sort of off roading you're doing, in some situations a wider tyre is more beneficial than a narrow one. I think what they are replaci
36 MD11Engineer : Doesn´t look very versatile or utilitarian. What is missing is a small lorry type truck of up to 3.5 tons gross weight, where the upper structure is
37 kiwirob : We really don't know what the actual vehicle will end up like, I highly doubt JLR will abandon it's traditional Defender buyers but I'm they want to
38 BMI727 : You'd hope so, and I think it's likely. Jeep still sells plenty of Wranglers, although they seem quite common among affluent buyers who don't need to
39 garpd : Top gear once did a test with the latest 4x4s of the time. The test was simple. A small grass hill that was wet. To pass the test, get all the way to
40 thesultanofwing : Nice one! I hear you! I have just been told that the new local regulations state that every new vehicle requires a double airbag from this year onwar
41 Braniff747SP : I don't think it will loose the appeal because Joe Average drives it; it will loose appeal because it must become a Joemobile for that to happen, so
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