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12-19 Shot In Nola Mother's Day Parade.  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20355 posts, RR: 59
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Unclear if there are any deaths yet. Youngest victim was 10, but it was "just a graze." And probably panic attacks for a while.   Number of injured varies with the network.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/12...-in-new-orleans-mother-day-parade/

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/12/us...iana-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

There were armed cops around and yet the shooting occurred. Turns out that having armed guards around doesn't seem to stop this sort of "hit-and-run" attack.

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinearmitageshanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

You mean baby mama day.

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15840 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

Quoting armitageshanks (Reply 1):
You mean baby mama day.

And we have a winner!

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Youngest victim was 10, but it was "just a graze." And probably panic attacks for a while.

Living in New Orleans, you can't say the panic is unjustified. They have the pretty parts for the tourists, but from what I've heard it's still not a nice place even after Katrina drove some of the troublemakers out.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

Somehow ironic since the perps were probably brought up by slightly less than stellar mothers.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17827 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Looks like the NRA sent a Mother's Day card 
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
There were armed cops around and yet the shooting occurred. Turns out that having armed guards around doesn't seem to stop this sort of "hit-and-run" attack.

   Same with the Ft Hood shooting



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6611 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2194 times:
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From what I´ve read in other media that is not American, it has been ruled out as a terrorist attack by the incompe...sorry, the New Orleans PD.

User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7846 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2194 times:

A mothers day parade, who the hell has a mothers day parade?

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15840 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
A mothers day parade, who the hell has a mothers day parade?

I have no idea. In general, I find parades to be an incredible nuisance even when they don't include gunfire.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2176 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
who the hell has a mothers day parade?

It was a second-line parade. Who doesn't love a parade?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ZEyFqFTv4



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2150 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):

In an ideal world, the mothers and kids would be brandishing machine guns, like they do in sub-Saharan Africa. Time we caught up with the everyone else!


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5658 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
There were armed cops around and yet the shooting occurred. Turns out that having armed guards around doesn't seem to stop this sort of "hit-and-run" attack.

You're right, hit and run, drive-by type shootings, by their nature are hard to defend against. Near as I can tell, this was planned with the express intent to create havoc and allow the shooter(s) to get away.

I suspect that the actual incident didn't last more than a few seconds and the shooter(s) faded into the crowd and mayhem they created.

The police say its a flare-up of street violence...and it may be. But, to me, it almost seems like a probe to test for response.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Same with the Ft Hood shooting

Really, there were armed folks at Ft. Hood? Inside the building? I'm thinking; not.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

From what I´ve read, it looks like a fight between members of different gangs or criminals. The victims didn´t seem to have been especially targeted, but were more "in the wrong place at the wrong time"and got hit by stray bullets. If the general public were deliberately targeted, we would have seen several people killed. It wouldn´t be surprised if the guns used were some cheap "saturday night specia"l handguns.

Jan

[Edited 2013-05-13 04:59:57]

User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2030 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
it looks like a fight between members of different gangs or criminals

When I heard about the shooting the first thing I thought of was street gang violence. NOLA is loaded with that kind of thing.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Really, there were armed folks at Ft. Hood? Inside the building? I'm thinking; not.

Exactly.... Some people think military bases are loaded with people who are walking around with guns, which is not true I have never been on an Army base, but judging from the USAF and USN bases I have on been people aren't armed.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Looks like the NRA sent a Mother's Day card

Street gangs and the NRA have nothing to do with each other. I have been to a a number of NRA annual meetings and I doubt there would be a gang member within sight of that event. The sheer volume of police officers who attend would scare those types away.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
but from what I've heard it's still not a nice place even after Katrina drove some of the troublemakers out.

They came back....

Was it a real parade or just some stupid even cooked up by some community group. Yesterday I saw Women Walking Woodward for Peace", in Detroit. That event got no press coverage but if something happened during it, it would have made all the media outlets.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
There were armed cops around and yet the shooting occurred

Like a bunch of street thugs would care about that. The NOLA police have been recognized over and over and over as a corrupt force. I doubt a lot of street gang members take them seriously.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
It was a second-line parade



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1937 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
Exactly.... Some people think military bases are loaded with people who are walking around with guns, which is not true I have never been on an Army base, but judging from the USAF and USN bases I have on been people aren't armed.

Yup. Normally the military have very strict rules about the carriage of the service weapons, especially outside a warzone in a garrison. The weapons are usually kept under lock and key in the barracks armoury, and the soldiers only get them, against signature, if ordered so by their superiors, and then only for duty purposes. After the duty is finished (training, standing guard etc.) they´ll have to clean their weapins and then return them to trhe armoury.
The only soldiers seen with weapons inside a typical military installation in peacetime outside a warzone (where the camp might be attacked at any time, so the soldiers will have to be ready to fight instantly) are the guards and military police on duty, except if a unit goes on a training exercise, where they would need their weapons.
Ammunition is similarly restricted. In most militaries each round has to be accounted for (again in peacetime outside a warzone) and the military keep strict control on the ammunition to prevent accidents, e.g. at any time a soldier can only have one type of ammunition on him: either live ammunition, blanks or inert exercise ammunition, so that the possibility of one soldier accidentally shooting another one through a mixup of ammunition types ("but I thought there were blank rounds in the magazine!")is reduced.
I would be surprised if the US military would be different. The US Army in West Berlin defintely banned the private possession of large knives inside the barracks. A GI friend of mine back in the 1980s, with who I used to go scuba diving, asked me to keep his diving knife in my place for him, since it was not allowed inside his barracks.

Jan


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
The weapons are usually kept under lock and key in the barracks armoury, and the soldiers only get them, against signature, if ordered so by their superiors, and then only for duty purposes.

We always kept our weapons in our lockers. Bolt in one and the rest in another. Never ammunition in the lockers.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20355 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Living in New Orleans, you can't say the panic is unjustified. They have the pretty parts for the tourists, but from what I've heard it's still not a nice place even after Katrina drove some of the troublemakers out.

No, I mean the kid. Perfect setup for PTSD in a 10yo brain.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 14):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
The weapons are usually kept under lock and key in the barracks armoury, and the soldiers only get them, against signature, if ordered so by their superiors, and then only for duty purposes.

We always kept our weapons in our lockers. Bolt in one and the rest in another. Never ammunition in the lockers.

What i described is the way they do it in the German and British armies.

Jan


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
There were armed cops around and yet the shooting occurred. Turns out that having armed guards around doesn't seem to stop this sort of "hit-and-run" attack.

Oh c'mon, you want to make this political? Probably some gangsta's arguing over turf. And with a crowd, unless the cop is standing 5 feet behind the perp, there is not much he can do.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
A mothers day parade, who the hell has a mothers day parade?
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
I have no idea. In general, I find parades to be an incredible nuisance even when they don't include gunfire.

Hey, It's N'awlins. They have parades for funerals. The French Quarter is made for parties and parades. If you don't like them, don't live there.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

I suppose we've all seen the stills by now. Doesn't look anything remotely like gang wars or drive-by shootings, rather it looks like a dude waiting until the time is just right before unloading into the middle of the crowd.

The stills are also a perfect example of why the whole idea of "an armed citizen will be able to fight off the perpetrators" is idiotic. It's blindingly obvious, at least when it comes to untrained civilians, that human nature takes over at the first sound of gun fire, and that nature is to duck and run - not to stand and fight.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
There were armed cops around and yet the shooting occurred. Turns out that having armed guards around doesn't seem to stop this sort of "hit-and-run" attack.

   Same with the Ft Hood shooting
Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
Exactly.... Some people think military bases are loaded with people who are walking around with guns, which is not true I have never been on an Army base, but judging from the USAF and USN bases I have on been people aren't armed.

LOL I was gonna comment on this actually... military bases are some of the most stringent gun control zones there are. A huge chunk of servicemembers are CCW holders but none of them are armed.

Yeah, I don't get why some people think we all run around with M-4s, rounds loaded in the chamber. Even when going to the range, they essentially baby you when you have any rounds and they check to make sure you're unloaded about a million times after you're done. Worst example ever



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5658 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 18):
The stills are also a perfect example of why the whole idea of "an armed citizen will be able to fight off the perpetrators" is idiotic. It's blindingly obvious, at least when it comes to untrained civilians, that human nature takes over at the first sound of gun fire, and that nature is to duck and run - not to stand and fight.

Actually, that's a very good and strong instinct. Duck and cover would be my first instinct. But, one question, just an itty bitty question:

What if the shooter decides to continue shooting? You know, he starts targeting individuals? Cornering them were they took cover? What then?

In this case, the police (armed people) would have probably gotten to him (I hope they're better shots than the NYPD was last year).

But, what if there aren't any police?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

They have a suspect. Nice work NOPD (for a change).

http://www.wwltv.com/news/NOPD-names...others-Day-shooting-207306761.html

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Living in New Orleans, you can't say the panic is unjustified. They have the pretty parts for the tourists, but from what I've heard it's still not a nice place even after Katrina drove some of the troublemakers out.

Just like most places there are good areas and bad areas. 95% of the violent crime takes place in older residential areas where the only reason you'd go there would be if you lived there.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
When I heard about the shooting the first thing I thought of was street gang violence. NOLA is loaded with that kind of thing.

Most of it is drug related and isolated in several older areas of the city. It's unfortunate from time to time innocent bystanders get caught in the line of fire. The people who are doing this have no concern for human life and really no concern for their future because chances are they'll get caught eventually.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 18):
The stills are also a perfect example of why the whole idea of "an armed citizen will be able to fight off the perpetrators" is idiotic. It's blindingly obvious, at least when it comes to untrained civilians, that human nature takes over at the first sound of gun fire, and that nature is to duck and run - not to stand and fight.

actually this is what you should do, armed or not (and what soldiers get trained to do). Hear shots, duck, cover, assess the situation (where are the shots coming from? Can you see the shooter? How many of them are there? Where are they? How are they armed? Where are my friends? Can they help me in the fight? How can I coordinate with them? What tactics to use?) and then react and fight back. The last thing you would want an armed (good) person to do is to shoot randomly around, hoping to hit a bad guy.

Jan


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

MD11 Engineer:

I know that, having served as an officer in the army back in my younger and more foolish days. It does seem, however, that some people have been watching way too many Hollywood productions, and believe an armed civilian would be just the ticket in a gunfight against an armed terrorist. Chances are the civilian would be either dead or, if he's lucky and quick, has made his escape and lost contact with the terrorist.

What does work is having paramilitary types, exquistly trained, highly alert and always kept abreast of posible threats. Israel has gone and done that, posting military types in civilian clothes to protect schools. No doubt they'll enjoy a high level of success, but only because of their training and level of alertness and knowledge. It is not a job for Joe Six Pack and his Glock, out shopping on a Saturday afternoon in the malls.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5658 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1716 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 23):
. Chances are the civilian would be either dead or,

That civilian may be dead anyway. Don't just look at this shooting. My guess, is that if this wasn't a "gang-related" shoot-out, it was just some sick guy looking to get a reaction or just wanted to see what it felt like to shoot people.

This appears to have been planned so that the shooter(s) could get away. A couple of seconds of shooting and fade away. There is just about no way to defend against this, nor stop it when it starts.

The real ugly happens when the shooter starts to hunt.

Look at Aurora, Newtown, Virginia Tech, Nickel Mines, Fort Hood, etc. These are all places where an immediate armed response may have resulted in less deaths.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 23):

What does work is having paramilitary types, exquistly trained, highly alert and always kept abreast of posible threats. Israel has gone and done that, posting military types in civilian clothes to protect schools

In Israel, it is a national security matter. Here, in the US, it is a criminal matter. Now, if we can tie some of these shootings to a larger, national security threat, e.g. terrorists making random attacks through-out the country, you can make a case that the military should be involved.

Speaking of military and/or para-military police forces: have they started going door to door searching homes in New Orleans? I mean, this guy is still a threat, isn't he? Instead of an indiscriminate shooter, he could have easily been an indiscriminate killer, with a few aimed shots.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
25 Mir : Except that the policies of one help the policies of the other, and vice versa. -Mir
26 cmf : Or more deaths, just saying. Guns everywhere promoters constantly state that if people had been allowed to carry then this and that shooting would no
27 brilondon : So this is what you get in a violent society that is the U.S.A. Yeah, lets all get guns for protection. Where you guys with your guns to prevent this
28 seb146 : They sure do! NRA Is defending the right to carry and use guns any where, any time and street gangs are exercising that right. I didn't surprise me N
29 Dreadnought : Just a question: Was any of the victims (or the shooter) a member of the NRA?
30 DarkSnowyNight : Absolutely. If an individual had no priors, than yes, the NRA is in fact rabidly in favor of that person carrying a gun around, even if they're in a
31 Dreadnought : LOL, now that's a stretch. Can anyone recall a gang member who was also an NRA member?
32 DarkSnowyNight : First, are saying that this is impossible? Second, would they have to be? The NRA is unambiguously in favor of and lobbies with criminal aggression f
33 fr8mech : Yup, it's certainly possible. What we do know, as facts that the in the incidents I cited: -all were in gun free zones, (with the possible exception
34 cmf : A stretch is to suggest a gang member must be a NRA member to benefit from NRA's actions. But can you guarantee that no gang member is or have been a
35 fr8mech : That's like asking to guarantee that AAA's advocacy hasn't resulted in more car accidents.
36 Mir : They'll never publicly say that, of course. But there's no question that the positions that they push make it very easy for gangs to obtain weapons t
37 cmf : How do you figure that? Very limited knowledge about AAA so look forward to see you tell me what laws they have promoted that equal the laws NRA prom
38 Dreadnought : No more than you can admit to me that generally well-meaning social programs for the poor have not resulted in increasing urban blight, explosions in
39 cmf : No idea how this is relevant to this discussion? Why the move away from the topic at hand?
40 fr8mech : Let's see, AAA provides insurance, so does the NRA. AAA provides training, so does the NRA. AAA advocates for better rules and regulations that make
41 cmf : In what state does attending a couple hours of AAA training mean you get your license? Then why did NRA support the The Firearm Owners' Protection Ac
42 Post contains links Dreadnought : From Wiki: The Firearm Owners' Protection Act lists the following as prohibited from owning a firearm: Anyone who has been convicted in any court of
43 cmf : Don't try to change topic again. You have outstanding claims to support.
44 Dreadnought : You brought it up and asked a direct question (or rather, an implication). Do I? Pls specify.
45 cmf : This You connecting it with a gang member being a NRA member doesn't answer the question. Interestingly DarkSnowyNight's statements connects back to
46 Dreadnought : I suggest you ask Snowy why he thinks "the NRA is in fact rabidly in favor of that person carrying a gun around, even if they're in a Gang". I find t
47 cmf : Your response to his statement certainly was ludicrous. What he stated is very straight forward. That because NRA is against every form of gun contro
48 Mir : That argument went very stale a very long time ago. Yeah, a list of all the people who aren't supposed to have guns is great, but unless they're forc
49 Dreadnought : Check your history. The NRA was a supporter of key gun control legislation since the 1930s, particularly to control the gang wars of the time (eg Al
50 fr8mech : There are estimates that 30% - 40% of all households in the US have guns in them. I'll suggest that does equate to the general population. I am an NR
51 DarkSnowyNight : Does AAA advocate the removal of Licensing Drivers? Does AAA advocate the removal of Liability Insurance Requirements for Drivers? Does AAA advocate
52 Post contains links fr8mech : Missed this: How? It seems to me that this administration (and prior ones) have failed to enforce the current laws. Something like 48,000 people in 20
53 Mir : Prosecuting people for checking an incorrect box on a form or that legitimately answers a question inaccurately is a huge waste of already limited re
54 fr8mech : Yes, it is a good outcome. But, again, those people lied on a federal form and the crime is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. These aren't folk
55 DeltaMD90 : The NRA, IMO, should sponsor legislation themselves that address these issues. They've been pretty vague in what they've been saying so far. I'm on th
56 seb146 : What does being a member of a private organization have to do with the Constitution? I am not a member of any religious organization, yet I enjoy the
57 fr8mech : Citation? Please show me where the NRA says that folks ineligible to own a firearm under 18USC922 should be allowed to own firearms.
58 Dreadnought : Forget it. The NRA wants dead children from stray fire. They dance at the altar of random shootings. Anyone who appreciates the Second Amendment reve
59 fr8mech : And, even though you are not a gun owner (assumption on my part), you enjoy the benefits of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not
60 Mir : And if we had a government with infinite resources, then they'd be properly prosecuted. But I don't think you'd want a government with infinite resou
61 fr8mech : The person that can't get a gun through legal means (you know, the one who falsified his Form 4473 and got bounced by NICS) will now go out and spend
62 Mir : Or they go to a gun show and get one through legal means. Which some of them would probably do in the first place, and you seem perfectly content to
63 fr8mech : Believe it or not, I have bought several firearms over the years (gasp). In fact, I bought one this morning (S&W M&P Shield in .40) that I or
64 DeltaMD90 : Gun show loophole is a pretty poor term. I think he's talking about private sales, though all the guns shows I've been to required private sales to g
65 Mir : If I'm not mistaken, the dealer has no obligation to review the form with the applicant (I saw nothing in the instructions on the 4473 form requiring
66 fr8mech : Yup, there is no requirement. I can only go by personal experience. So far, across the 3 states that I have lived in and all the guns I've purchased
67 Post contains links Mir : But ultimately it doesn't matter as long as there's no legal requirement to do it. It's nice to know, but it's not going to help prosecutions any. Un
68 fr8mech : If the person does not have an FFL, then he is a private seller. STOP. If the ATF or whatever alphabet agency decides that his level of activity cons
69 Post contains images cmf : Check history Unfortunately for your argument history is something that I am very interested in and thus is very familiar with how people rewrite his
70 Mir : And that's exactly why background checks need to be expanded to private sellers as well. When a person can do almost everything that an FFL can do, b
71 fr8mech : No, my logic is sound. Seb said: And I asked for a citation where the NRA has advocated for abatement of 18USC922. As for guns in school...exactly wh
72 Mir : No, the standard of proof will be less, so the same resources will be able to be more effective. Though I'm still wondering why the emphasis is being
73 Post contains images cmf : You really like to be literal whenever it suits you and very broad when that suits you. When you make his statement to mean ignoring 18USC922 you mak
74 Post contains links fr8mech : Because I would like to stop them before they get a hold of a gun. I'd like to stop them when they're in the "hmmm, let's see if I can get a gun" pha
75 cmf : GENERAL Affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things; widespread: "books of general interest". I.e. the general population do not ow
76 Mir : So would I. And thus, your goal of stopping them was achieved. They might have tried the private route and gotten them there. Though if there were ba
77 Post contains links fr8mech : It's not a paperwork violation; it's a felony to lie on a federal form...or at least on the 4473. Which would make the practice more common, which wo
78 Post contains links fr8mech : Wow, my apologies. It appears my math was a little off. The percentage of folks prosecuted by the federal government in was .092%. Sorry. And, I wante
79 Darksnowynight : Sure. If there are actual rules in place to police private sales.
80 Mir : Indeed it is. And how do you prove they lied when they claim it was an honest mistake? Can't police something that isn't illegal. A private citizen s
81 fr8mech : What I meant, was that when the straw buyers are forced to operate in the private sales arena, they will attract more attention. Where, right now, so
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