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Ntsb Wants To Lower DUI BAC To 0.05%. Thoughts?  
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3030 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Saw this on cnn.com today.
I understand that DUI is a huge issue, but I don't think that the people between 0.05 and 0.08% are the cause of the gory tales that accompany these stories. And the cnn story mentions that 0.08% equals 4 drinks per hour per some website, which sounds like alot, but actually 2 beers can get you to 0.08. It seems a little extreme to me, but wanted to know what you all thought..
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/us/nts...blood-alcohol/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8725 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
It seems a little extreme to me, but wanted to know what you all thought..

If you've drunk, you don't drive. That's all there is to it.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):

Very true, but .08 is low enough to cover this.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8866 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

While I used to be a nightly boozer, now I drink only occasionally (once every week or two), so alcohol affects me a bit more than it did before.

At my body weight, it would take 3 or 4 glasses of wine to get me to 0.08. I can promise you that if I've just slammed the better part of a whole bottle wine (a bottle typically holds 5 glasses), you would not want to let me anywhere near a wheel. I would definitely be tipsy, with poor motor control and reflexes to match.

For me, personally, I think 0.05 is perfectly legit. I know that some people can deal with it a lot better, but I would go on the side of caution on this.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

I like the way my province does it. The BAC required for a DUI conviction is still 0.08, but you can still be charged with reckless driving and/or have your license taken away if you blow between 0.05-0.08.

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
If you've drunk, you don't drive. That's all there is to it.

But there are ways for alcohol to get into your system without actually having a beverage. It's necessary to quantify a point at which it is illegal, whatever level that is.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
I understand that DUI is a huge issue, but I don't think that the people between 0.05 and 0.08% are the cause of the gory tales that accompany these stories.

It doesn't really matter. If you seem impaired, you can be arrested even with a BAC below .08, just as if you were impaired with something other than alcohol. It just isn't a slam dunk case.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8866 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
It just isn't a slam dunk case

But that doesn't mean you should slam a case...

Sorry, couldn't help it...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

I like .05.

If you can't go out to dinner and stay under .05, you, either don't need to be drinking or don't need to be driving.

Driving drunk is a choice.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4670 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

I wouldn't mind these targets, but it needs to be more relateable to people out drinking . There needs to be a quick simple otc test that people can choose to buy to help them make better decisions after drinking. For the most part, at my age, I don't go over the top when I am out, but it would be good to know in case I am having a bit too good of a time.


Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 8):
There needs to be a quick simple otc test that people can choose to buy to help them make better decisions after drinking

There's really only the one sensible decision after drinking - any amount - and that's not to drive.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4670 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2287 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
There's really only the one sensible decision after drinking - any amount - and that's not to drive.

Ummm what about 1 ml ? I oz? I liter ? There are varying degrees of impairment and susceptibility. There is also a timeline of impairment. Everything is relative .



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11718 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 2):
.08 is low enough to cover this

Not for everyone. Some people can blow a .08 and be just fine. Others can blow .03 and be kissing the canvas, as they say. I think the federal limit should be .05, but each state should be able to set their own limit and, at the same time, set their own limit for purchases of alcohol.

For example, California should be able to lower the BAC to .03 and lower the drinking age to 19 for California residents only while Nevada could set their BAC at .08 and keep their drinking age at 21.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

I'm really kind of ambivalent about the idea. It would increase DUI convictions, but perhaps not get more dangerous drivers off the road. I doubt cops can lower their threshold of suspicion when observing drivers to account for the difference between .05 and .08.

If you cross the centerline or signal the wrong way and a cop stops you, he won't let you drive away if you blow a .06. You might not get convicted of a DUI, but you won't be driving away in that condition either.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Not for everyone. Some people can blow a .08 and be just fine. Others can blow .03 and be kissing the canvas, as they say. I think the federal limit should be .05, but each state should be able to set their own limit and, at the same time, set their own limit for purchases of alcohol.

First of all I do not drink alcohol, and I agree mostly with your analogy.
The only problem I have is that a body can naturally produce .04 and never have a drink of alcohol.
That only leaves .01% tolerance. Now personally I would not trust a law officer that might have an agenda with a .01% tolerance but that is just me.
I can not speak for the people you know but the one I have known over the years that have been busted for DUI have always been well over the .08 mark so I just do not see where it is going to make much difference there.

States rights would be great, unfortunately the Federal Government controls drinking age and DUI limits by cutting off transportation funds for states that do no fall in line with their guidelines.

So right now I am fine with the .08 until I would have some evidence to convince me otherwise.

Okie


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17659 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

These levels always seem a bit arbitrary. Why not just require a device in cars that prevents it from starting if the driver is drunk? It could test you randomly, every time, or somewhere in between as it senses how often you try to drive drunk.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Driving drunk is a choice.

It is, but I don't think many people know what their limit is, nor could tell the difference between .04 and .05. I bet if you screened people leaving the average bar, most would be drunk and most would be driving.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
There's really only the one sensible decision after drinking - any amount - and that's not to drive.

Good luck with that.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5306 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
It is, but I don't think many people know what their limit is, nor could tell the difference between .04 and .05. I bet if you screened people leaving the average bar, most would be drunk and most would be driving.

  

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Good luck with that.

Precisely. I don't know many people who haven't gotten behind the wheel at one time or another after overindulging, myself included. It's not something I condone, but you're just never going to get 100% compliance with drinking and not driving.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11718 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Why not just require a device in cars that prevents it from starting if the driver is drunk?

Some places have that and it is fine. For offenders. I don't mind if offenders have that device. However, if non-offenders want to drive, that is a different story.

Right this second, I have been drinking. I am home and not driving. Why should I pay $3000 more for my car when I am responsible? Many of us are responsible. Like gun owners. Not all of us are 5 years old. Not all of us have a record and buy at gun shows.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17659 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):

Some places have that and it is fine. For offenders. I don't mind if offenders have that device. However, if non-offenders want to drive, that is a different story.

That's fair, but ideally you stop the drunk driving before the driver becomes an 'offender', and these arbitrary changes in the BAC don't do much to that effect.

Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
I don't think that the people between 0.05 and 0.08% are the cause of the gory tales that accompany these stories.

Also a lot of states won't penalize you if you're driving with a BAC below 0.08%, but will if you're below .08 and get into an accident, which seems like a little bit of double dealing: you're ok to drive, but you're not ok to get into an accident, even if it's 0.01. Makes you wonder how many DUI accidents weren't really DUI at all...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2723 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

This was a 1970's debate in Australia and they moved from 0.08 down to 0.05 in about 1979. The impact on reflexes between 0.05 and 0.08 rises EXPONENTIALLY, especially dangerous because you don't feel it happening. That's why most of EU, Australia and other have been on 0.05 for years or even many decades. The impact on road deaths was so marked no one could argue against it. I'm shocked this is being treated an an open issue in the US. It's not as if all the data is not available.


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
It is, but I don't think many people know what their limit is, nor could tell the difference between .04 and .05. I bet if you screened people leaving the average bar, most would be drunk and most would be driving.

This, in my view, is a strong argument in favor of a zero tolerance policy. People may have a hard time telling a .04 from a .06. But with .00 it's much easier.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
Precisely. I don't know many people who haven't gotten behind the wheel at one time or another after overindulging, myself included. It's not something I condone, but you're just never going to get 100% compliance with drinking and not driving.

That's not an argument against a stricter policy. It's like saying: "well, there will be always people shooting other people, so let's get rid of the laws sanctioning murdering people".


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4068 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2124 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
I'm really kind of ambivalent about the idea. It would increase DUI convictions, but perhaps not get more dangerous drivers off the road.
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 18):
The impact on road deaths was so marked no one could argue against it. I'm shocked this is being treated an an open issue in the US. It's not as if all the data is not available.

The second statement is very interesting, because I agreed with the first until then. I would think that people who are severely impaired and choose to drive nevertheless have no idea what their BAC is to begin with (and obviously don't care), so I can't see how lowering the limit would encourage them to change their behavior.

But if there is a body of evidence to show that the lower limit does make a difference, perhaps over time thanks to easier DUI convictions as proposed above, then I can see myself being in favor of the lower limit.

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 19):
But with .00 it's much easier.

It's impractical at best. There are medications, syrups and other ways to get above .00 unknowingly. It won't be "don't drink and drive," it will be "don't do anything and drive."



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
It is, but I don't think many people know what their limit is, nor could tell the difference between .04 and .05.

They should learn their limits and what external things influence that limit.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):

Precisely. I don't know many people who haven't gotten behind the wheel at one time or another after overindulging, myself included. It's not something I condone, but you're just never going to get 100% compliance with drinking and not driving.

We don't have 100% compliance on the speed limit. You get caught, you get a ticket. Same thing with drinking and driving. Plenty of people get behind the wheel of a car, everyday, who have had just one too many and make it home safely everyday. Some of those folks even shake their heads when they get home and say "wow, maybe I shouldn't have driven".
Problem is, that even if you're driving just a little buzzed (one drink too many) you are impaired. Your reaction time is slowed. Your judgment may be just a little off. .05 is what? 1 1/2 drinks per hour.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Why not just require a device in cars that prevents it from starting if the driver is drunk?

Only for those under a court order. I should not have to submit to such an invasion without having proven myself incapable of making that decision.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17659 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 21):

They should learn their limits and what external things influence that limit.

That's a tall order. Everyone should floss and send their mother a card on mother's day but that ain't happening either.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2723 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 20):
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 18):
The impact on road deaths was so marked no one could argue against it. I'm shocked this is being treated an an open issue in the US. It's not as if all the data is not available.

The second statement is very interesting, because I agreed with the first until then. I would think that people who are severely impaired and choose to drive nevertheless have no idea what their BAC is to begin with (and obviously don't care), so I can't see how lowering the limit would encourage them to change their behavior.

But if there is a body of evidence to show that the lower limit does make a difference, perhaps over time thanks to easier DUI convictions as proposed above, then I can see myself being in favor of the lower limit.

It has to be massively enforced and so it is in a lot of countries with a 0.05 limit. In Oz, it is a massive operation. Most Australians can count on being tested randomly at least twice a year. Here in France, I only drive on weekends and have been breathalysed 3 times in the past few years.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4068 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2105 times:
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Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 23):
It has to be massively enforced and so it is in a lot of countries with a 0.05 limit.

Then we are screwed. By the nature of the position I have held well before the current one, I would drive home on days and hours when many others could be going home drunk, and I have not been randomly tested twice in my life! I have been stopped, asked about alcohol consumption, but not tested...



I've got $h*t to do
25 fr8mech : My not flossing or calling my mother does not have the potential of getting people killed.
26 Post contains links connies4ever : Agree with both the above. I'll likely get pilloried for it, but I think stay with the 0.08 for a conviction, 0.05 for a 24 hour suspension. If you g
27 Rabenschlag : I do not agree. First, if a product contains enough alcohol to result in a measurable effect on BAC, it must be labelled as such. I think this is alr
28 MaverickM11 : Or speeding, or smoking, or trying meth, or any number of any things--take your pick. If humans were as rational as you think should be and made choi
29 RussianJet : If the limit is very low indeed, then it should be able to account for inadvertent amounts of alcohol cough syrup or whatever, though the fact is lab
30 fr8mech : But we do have standards for those and we do cite, arrest and/or prosecute when necessary. I know what the speed limit is, I know it's illegal to man
31 seb146 : It seems, these days, people are better at not driving under the influence. Many of my friends will not drive after having one or two drinks. So, I t
32 casinterest : But then you get into a compare and contrast ratio of what impairment is. What about folks on the radio, or the folks taking pain meds , or the folks
33 connies4ever : Not the case in Canada. Various OTC products contain alcohol, as well as mouthwash, and this is only noted in the fine print noting "Ingredients" on
34 falstaff : It is all about making money. More convictions means more money for local and state governments. Time and time again I hear about how distracted drivi
35 Rabenschlag : Well, in Germany, texting is illegal, so is using the phone without a hands-free system. Drinking and driving is legal within limits. In other words,
36 MaverickM11 : Really? What's the penalty for driving under the influence, under the limit? Thankfully it seems to have become a real taboo, which is a good thing,
37 Aesma : Here a law was recently passed forcing people to have 2 breathalyser kits in their car, so that when you're out and have had alcohol you use one and
38 falstaff : That seems kind of dumb to me. Why have a limit at all if you still commit a crime if you are under it? I agree with you. I just don't get the double
39 BMI727 : My big point of skepticism is how this would change enforcement. Convictions are merely a deterrent. The goal isn't to convict drunk drivers, the goa
40 DarkSnowyNight : We already have a hard enough time getting new residents to register their cars as it is. I don't think having more favorable rules in neighboring st
41 OzGlobal : Like I already explain above, in countries that are serious about this, you WILL be randomly tested several times per year on average. If you are in
42 connies4ever : Of course, law enforcement officers can decide, based on a number of criteria, that a person is impaired. BAC, field sobriety test, erratic driving,
43 Post contains images BMI727 : Of course you would. You want the government out of your bedroom, but get them out of the garage too. Porsche USA people apparently began sending lar
44 Post contains images DocLightning : We actually agree on something??? Bottom line: I'd rather than DUI be based on some objective measures of IMPAIRMENT, rather than a number on a machi
45 RussianJet : No it's not. Driving is dangerous enough without alcohol. If you want to drink, don't plan to drive. There is nothing difficult or extreme about that
46 Post contains images tugger : I never drive when I am drunk... at least not that I can remember.... Seriously, I do drive after having drinks, I don't drive drunk. I have heard it
47 OzGlobal : Then you will continue to live with what were 1970's rates of alcohol related road deaths in more proactive countries. Funny, I find US domestic airp
48 fr8mech : When I was growing up in NY, and learning to drive there, back in the 80's, there was driving while intoxicated (DWI) and driving while ability impai
49 DocLightning : Yes. There are ways to do this objectively. It will require development, but it can be done. The simplest is some sort of "video game" that tests rea
50 DarkSnowyNight : These things happen, lol. I experienced something like that last year a few times after a few of our infamous triple shifts. Yeah, there certainly ar
51 BMI727 : They'll just do what athletes do to get back after a suspected concussion: tank the baseline tests. If a cop stops some whose BAC is a .06 but they a
52 DarkSnowyNight : Ok, I can buy that one.
53 KaiGywer : There are field sobriety tests for drugs as well. Not as well studied (yet) as alcohol fst, but it can be done. You can then do blood/urine tests to
54 4holer : A question for those of the "zero tolerance" crowd: Would you be agreeable to a lesser and more general "reckless driving" or such charge for lesser B
55 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I know of at least several states that if you cause an accident where someone is injured or killed and you have any alcohol in your system, well unde
56 DeltaMD90 : It's a career killer for the military (at least if you're an officer.) They always tell us it's the quickest way out of the military. Seen many caree
57 OzGlobal : In Australia and I think France and other EU countries, it's like speeding, there's DUI at 0,05+, but brackets of degree and associated penalties.
58 MaverickM11 : Judging by the number of incidents involving commercial pilots over the limit, it seems like less of a big deal. Do they even get fired?
59 DeltaMD90 : IDK. I think the unions help keep them in (not trying to bring unions into this convo, trust me.) In my lifetime (keep in mind I'm fairly young) it s
60 Rabenschlag : Given that there is such an easy and 100% safe way to avoid having your career going down the sink, what's the big deal? Would we want to introduce a
61 MD11Engineer : But the way we do it here in Europe or you guys in Australia with random spot checks (police blocks a road and everybody passing gets checked, not ju
62 Aesma : Well driving drunk is not freedom and shouldn't be a right. Yes in France 0,05 will get you a mandatory 6 points loss on your driving license (out of
63 cptkrell : Road blocks for driver checks are not unconstitutional in the U.S. (at least not in Tennessee). I kinda think they SHOULD be unconstitutional, but tha
64 BMI727 : True. The point is that most likely just as many people will probably be taken off the road with a .05 limit as .08, it's just a matter of whether or
65 cmf : Will it? My parents used to run restaurants before retiring and they say the result was the exact opposite when it happened there. People made sure t
66 tugger : Just curious, what is the death rate and the accident rate for drinking and driving? Lets say per miles or hours driven? Tugg
67 casinterest : Not sure, but for teens and young adults I read that there were 2400 deaths last year from Alcohol which is 25 % of the deaths total. For measurement
68 cmf : I'm sure you can google that without problem. Let's address the issue you avoid mentioning. How often must people die (per mile or whatever other mea
69 BMI727 : There is no point in the government continuing to drive up the cost and complexity of cars for little purpose. We're safe enough, life doesn't need t
70 cmf : You mean you have not been killed.
71 tugger : And you can't? You appear to be implying that drinking and driving is a real problem but where is the data? As you said: So what is the rate? I am no
72 cmf : Lets try to break your boxed thinking. The rate you ask for doesn't make sense. It is nothing but an attempt at presenting it in a way to get a small
73 Aesma : Well the cost or complexity of the car doesn't make much of a difference when it runs me over. Don't forget it's not just the driver at risk.
74 Post contains links melpax : As others have already said, the .05 limit is very heavily enforced here. But it's also backed up with education & heavy advertising, especially a
75 tugger : You are the one that is being boxed, you are claiming that this is a good idea and yet do not provide anything showing what the improvement will be i
76 Post contains links cmf : Am I? I am not making up irrelevant forms of data and ask you to provide the numbers just because I want a small number that doesn't look bad because
77 tugger : You still have no data. No "black on white" as you say, so I assume there will be no improvement by lowering the number? So what rate does the FAA us
78 cmf : I have the numbers. They are extremely simple to find. But since it was you who decide on a specific type of numbers it is on you to provide those nu
79 WarRI1 : I am 6 foot, at one time, I weighed in at 230 pounds. One bottle of Budweiser and I was gone. One bottle on an empty stomach, and I could not find my
80 Post contains links tugger : So you still have no numbers and no source? OK, well just say so, and stop pretending and trying to get others to do your work. If they were "extreme
81 Post contains links and images cmf : Dude, yet again, It was you who brought the stupid accidents per mile and hour. It is your work. Yes, driving provide benefits. Driving under influen
82 KaiGywer : Are you sure? That sounds like an awful lot of unnecessary work for the cops. I would hate to have to breathalyze every person I stop if I have no in
83 melpax : Afraid so, been in force for the past 10 years or so here. Quite a few times I've been pulled over for speeding where the cops have said 'I know you
84 cmf : Facts sure made you quiet. Not surprised that someone who can't support their own statements with anything but screaming for others to provide data a
85 JLB67 : It can only be a good thing I suppose. I don't see why people need to mix the two? A car is the most dangerous thing the majority of the population us
86 KaiGywer : That's bizarre I have the required equipment in my car, but I choose when to bring it out.
87 Ken777 : The first person in my high school class to die was from a drunk driver. That And, most importantly, the Aussies will randomly stop and test you. Had
88 ATCtower : How about instead of punishing people who have two glasses of wine with dinner instead of one (pretty much what .05 to .08 will do) we actually go aft
89 Geezer : I can see this idea from both sides; to start with, If I had my way, the tolerance would be .000 How much tolerance does a professional airline pilot
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