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GOP Outreach Director Calls GOP Racist  
User currently offlineblueflyer From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jan 2006, 4191 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1873 times:
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The Republican National Committee's outreach director in Florida has quit and switched his party affiliation to Democrat. This article reproduces in full an email explaining his decision.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-bu...orida-switches-to-democrat/2120764

I have GOP card-carrying friends, colleagues and neighbors (but no relatives, come to think of it, might it be genetic?), some of whom are appalled at what other GOP members do and say, all of whom I believe to be decent, caring individuals who would not stand for racism, but at the same time I am astounded at the company the GOP keeps. What does it take to be told to surrender membership and take a very long walk?


I've got $h*t to do
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12970 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

From the article:

Quote:

Although the organization distanced themselves from those assertions, other immigration-related research is still padded with the same racist and eugenics-based innuendo. Some Republican leaders have blandly (if at all) denied and distanced themselves from this but it doesn’t take away from the culture within the ranks of intolerance. The pseudo-apologies appear to be a quick fix to deep-rooted issues in the Republican Party in hopes that it will soon pass and be forgotten.

Seems one of their own has gotten sick of the GOP dog whistle techniques.

Funny how the GOP insiders seem to think their two sided behavior is working when it clearly is not.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

I personally believe that any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison, since that is blatant slander, free speech or not.

[Edited 2013-05-14 15:03:51]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
I personally believe that any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison, since that is blatant slander, free speech or not.

Wow, where to begin? I guess you're mad at intolerance the GOP and counter it with more extreme intolerance (life in prison???????) Do you know what slander is? Did he call Republicans racist, or did he say there is a lot of intolerant views in the GOP? If you really believe what you said, I guess lock me up   (though I might be able to escape your extreme, hate-filled overreaction since I'm not a Democrat...)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2374 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
I personally believe that any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison, since that is blatant slander, free speech or not.

We're giving lifetime prison sentences to people for slander now? Please, tell us how you really feel.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 4):
We're giving lifetime prison sentences to people for slander now? Please, tell us how you really feel.

Comments like that don't make anyone sound intelligent. It just looks very immature and silly. I look back at comments I wrote a few years back when I was a completely biased, rightwinger and it makes me cringe. No problem with someone being right leaning, I consider myself to be, but comments like that just sound ignorant   

Yeah, the Heritage Foundation's report was pretty bad. I don't know how they thought that would win support over to their side



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):
some of whom are appalled at what other GOP members do and say

Democrats usually say equally appalling things, of course you hardly hear about that though. Nothing brings out the true colors of the Left more than when a conservative african-american runs for office.

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):
but at the same time I am astounded at the company the GOP keeps.

Oh you mean people like former clansman and senior Senator Robert Bird or Bill Ayers? Oh, wait...

This is a feckless tit-for-tat issue that could go on forever.

[Edited 2013-05-14 16:18:02]

[Edited 2013-05-14 16:20:30]

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison

We all remember your comments in the gay marriage thread. The pinnacle of tolerance it was!  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1720 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
Democrats usually say equally appalling things, of course you hardly hear about that though.

Of course we hear about it, it's equally loud and obnoxious except instead of it coming from NBC or CNN it comes from Fox and talk radio. What's your point? I think the rainbow of bias is well represented in America. Liberals have a lot of papers and news channels and conservatives have almost all talk radio and Fox which is very large



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Wow, where to begin? I guess you're mad at intolerance the GOP and counter it with more extreme intolerance (life in prison???????) Do you know what slander is? Did he call Republicans racist, or did he say there is a lot of intolerant views in the GOP? If you really believe what you said, I guess lock me up (though I might be able to escape your extreme, hate-filled overreaction since I'm not a Democrat...)

Intolerance!? Democrats are the ones who are intolerant of opposing views, which is why you will NEVER see a pro-life Democrat or pro-nuclear power Democrat in any major political position.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1710 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Democrats are the ones who are intolerant of opposing views, which is why you will NEVER see a pro-life Democrat or pro-nuclear power Democrat in any major political position.

Without looking up to prove you wrong (which I think you are, but I'll roll with what you are saying) that's like calling the GOP intolerant because they're all for *insert conservative ideal here.* Of course most Democrats are going to be for Democrat party ideas, I don't see how that's intolerant      

I suggest you get in a rational discussion with a rational liberal. Keyword: rational. Your rhetoric, no offense, is completely childish and flamebait, so I wouldn't be surprised if every liberal that talks with you blows you off (and is "intolerant of what you say") because when you say such outlandish things like "life imprisonment" for slander (and I'm assuming it's slander) it's hard to take that seriously and no one wants to deal with it.

Try calming down and saying "why is he saying Republicans are racist" (spoiler: he didn't say that) and "what point was he referring to" (the whole part about immigrants having lower IQs.) Feel free to disagree afterwards, but at least you won't be written off and people can more or less respect your different opinion, even if they disagree



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
Without looking up to prove you wrong (which I think you are, but I'll roll with what you are saying) that's like calling the GOP intolerant because they're all for *insert conservative ideal here.* Of course most Democrats are going to be for Democrat party ideas, I don't see how that's intolerant

Well, we have seen several pro-choice Republicans holding major political positions (Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, etc), but NEVER any pro-life Democrats. It can't be any more obvious which party is more intolerant of opposing political views, because the Democratic Party will NEVER let anyone who is pro-life hold a major political position.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
the Democratic Party will NEVER let anyone who is pro-life hold a major political position.

Oops.

http://www.democratsforlife.org/



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Intolerance!? Democrats are the ones who are intolerant of opposing views, which is why you will NEVER see a pro-life Democrat or pro-nuclear power Democrat in any major political position.

A smart argument isn't it. Do you honestly think the GOP will tolerate a Pro choice Republican to national office or one who supports gun control. The GOP chairman Pat Brady of Illinois has recently pressured out as leader of his state party over his stance on gay marriage. Maybe facts are not your thing but when has your party been tolerant of gay marriage and why have people in Florida in Democratic jurisdictions have had to wait for hours to vote and why? If your party is tolerant why isn't your party not quick to embrace Muslims, immigrants, gun control supporters and gays?



"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
It can't be any more obvious which party is more intolerant of opposing political views, because the Democratic Party will NEVER let anyone who is pro-life hold a major political position.

Please stop bro. You're being ridiculous

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Donnelly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Childers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Driehaus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Casey,_Jr.

Need I go on?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):

Having a fit and switching party's over a Heritage Foundation report that most people said WTF too?

Seems to me there is going to more to this...


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 15):
Having a fit and switching party's over a Heritage Foundation report that most people said WTF too?

Seems to me there is going to more to this...

It wasn't just a WTF report. It was a report that sourced numbers using resources that had some very dubious papers in the past. the image that report cast was that Heritage and the GOP were pushing an agenda and not relying on solid data and integrity when reporting those numbers.

I am sure their are other reasons. However those are all slow boilers.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
I personally believe that any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison, since that is blatant slander, free speech or not.

Your argument might have been a little more credible if you knew the difference between slander and libel...

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Intolerance!? Democrats are the ones who are intolerant of opposing views

You must have wonderful views in that glass house of yours  



Flying refined.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 15):
Having a fit and switching party's over a Heritage Foundation report that most people said WTF too?

Seems to me there is going to more to this...

Yes, there is a lot more to this.

Folks, please READ THE ARTICLE before posting, because if the above poster had read it (s)he would know that a full explanation is given in the article and that it is about a great deal more than the report. Rather than telling you the whole story, I will simply refer you to the link in the OP. It's a short article, I promise.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
Try calming down

My friend, you are trying to reason with someone who is not reasonable. Save your carpal tunnels the strain.  


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):

The article is his letter and his opinion as he runs out the door to the other party with no other information. There is no other information than what he says in the article.

For example:

"And a Republican strategist who wishes to remain unidentified says Pantoja had sought work with RNC officials a few months ago. ”This is a personal decision he is making, but if you go from asking the RNC for a job to a public statement saying you’re switching parties, then it looks like you are not sure of what you are doing,” says the Republican strategist."


http://nbclatino.com/2013/05/14/flor...t-personal-its-about-the-rhetoric/

That and he like's attention:

http://pablopantoja.com/


Plenty of troops do their job and go on in life. Old saying amoung soldiers... "If you feel the need to talk about it and brag about your accomplishments, the you're probably full of crap."

[Edited 2013-05-14 20:20:11]

User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 15):
Having a fit and switching party's over a Heritage Foundation report that most people said WTF too?

Seems to me there is going to more to this...

Yes, there is a lot more to this.

Folks, please READ THE ARTICLE before posting, because if the above poster had read it (s)he would know that a full explanation is given in the article and that it is about a great deal more than the report. Rather than telling you the whole story, I will simply refer you to the link in the OP. It's a short article, I promise.

Yeah I read the article initially and I agree there's something more behind it. It would be more believable if he simply left the Republican Party and became an independent, but there's something odd about suddenly jumping completely to the other end of the political spectrum. One would assume if this guy was not only a Republican, but worked in Hispanic outreach for the party that he obviously shared some of the core beliefs (limited government, cutting spending...etc), one doesn't just drop these principles and run in the opposite direction for the reasons he cited unless there was something else going on...that or he must not have strong convictions.


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 20):

He'd only been around a couple of months (April through June of last year) I call BS on his whole manufactured persona. Non story considering he left the job almost a year ago. Just another attention whore.

[Edited 2013-05-14 20:31:18]

User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 20):
It would be more believable if he simply left the Republican Party and became an independent, but there's something odd about suddenly jumping completely to the other end of the political spectrum.

People without a political affiliation don't get jobs in Mr. Pantoja's chosen field: Politics...


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 22):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 20):
It would be more believable if he simply left the Republican Party and became an independent, but there's something odd about suddenly jumping completely to the other end of the political spectrum.

People without a political affiliation don't get jobs in Mr. Pantoja's chosen field: Politics...

I absolutely agree, which makes me believe this whole 'the GOP is racist, I'm switching parties' is more like 'the Democrats offered me more money, so I switched jobs/parties'.


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 23):

Especially considering he hasn't been the Outreach Director for almost a year and had only had the job for a couple of months to begin with.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 23):
I absolutely agree, which makes me believe this whole 'the GOP is racist, I'm switching parties' is more like 'the Democrats offered me more money, so I switched jobs/parties'.

Rather than debating the man (let's face it, he's a politician, we should take most of them with a grain of salt) we should be discussing the issue at hand. Does the GOP have a problem with stereotyping and racism? Debating the politician isn't gonna get us anywhere



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 24):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 23):

Especially considering he hasn't been the Outreach Director for almost a year and had only had the job for a couple of months to begin with.

Good point.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 25):
Does the GOP have a problem with stereotyping and racism? Debating the politician isn't gonna get us anywhere

Not more so than the Democratic Party. As I implied earlier, one could continually go back-and-forth with appalling statements from and associations in either party, both are guilty of it. As for stereotyping, well, that's pretty much the MO of political parties, they both stereotype and categorize voters to achieve political advantage (when politicians start pulling out those phony accents, etc).

I'm an independent, a classical libertarian conservative one at that for those who haven't been able to guess thus far, so I do have my own issues with the Republican Party, but frankly, the narrative that Republicans have a 'racist' problem (any worse than the Democrats at least) is a concoction of their political opposition.


User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
I personally believe that any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison, since that is blatant slander, free speech or not.

Thank you for a "profound" and foolish contribution to the thread with, expectedly, no substantiation, whatsoever.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Democrats are the ones who are intolerant of opposing views

And if I were to say that the pink Delta 767-400ER were an unsightly, bloated, behemoth of a beast, what would you say?



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
Well, we have seen several pro-choice Republicans holding major political positions (Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, etc), but NEVER any pro-life Democrats.

And we have NEVER seen any pro-choice Republicans on a post-primary national ticket.

As for pro-life Democrats, do you have any understanding (at all) of the Democrats in the United States Senate?



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
The pseudo-apologies appear to be a quick fix to deep-rooted issues in the Republican Party in hopes that it will soon pass and be forgotten.

Speaking of things that will soon pass and be forgotten if they don't change their ways.... What was that Michael Jackson song again? Something about a mirror ?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 5374 posts, RR: 25
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
My friend, you are trying to reason with someone who is not reasonable. Save your carpal tunnels the strain.  

Truth. Anyone who makes claims that asinine has absolutely no idea how our legal system works, what it actually takes to prove slander and libel, and how high the barriers to recovery actually are. They also have no respect for our system of democracy, for our constitution, for the rule of law, or for this country. The whole diatribe makes the petition for pink leather seats on the 764 appear sane...

[Edited 2013-05-14 22:45:37]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Wouldn't be A.net without the mandatory weekly political thread!   


So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 20):

Yeah I read the article initially and I agree there's something more behind it. It would be more believable if he simply left the Republican Party and became an independent, but there's something odd about suddenly jumping completely to the other end of the political spectrum.

Except the DNC is not "at the other end of the spectrum." The issue is that the GOP is no longer a Conservative party; they are a reactionary party. The DNC is no longer Liberal but spans the spectrum from center-Right to mid-Left.

If you actually read some real political science textbooks, rather than listening to politicians, you'll see that what I am saying is true.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 25):
Does the GOP have a problem with stereotyping and racism? Debating the politician isn't gonna get us anywhere

The GOP has a huge problem with prejudice, period. As a group, they don't like non-Christians (Jews are tolerated, other religions are scorned), non-heterosexuals, or non-whites. If you are in one of these groups, you are not very welcome in the party.

Don't believe me? Next time there's a pro-2nd Amendment ralley, I challenge you to show up carrying something semiautomatic while wearing Muslim garb. See how that goes for ya.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 26):
Not more so than the Democratic Party. As I implied earlier, one could continually go back-and-forth with appalling statements from and associations in either party, both are guilty of it.

I get sick of this "neutrality for neutrality's sake" business. No, it is NOT that way in the DNC. Did you see the floor of the hall at the DNC convention? Did you see the floor of the hall at the GOP convention? The DNC was full of all ages, colors, religions, and sexual orientations. The GOP you had to hunt to find anyone not white and middle-aged.

The DNC has issues, but the GOP lately has a lot more issues.

This isn't the first time a Republican has openly voiced disgust at the internal workings of the party and its prejudices. Colin Powell isn't exactly a wishy-washy politician, but he threw in for Mr. Obama and spoke about how racist his party had become. One of his aides basically said the same thing.

I think this is going to get bigger and bigger and louder and louder into the 2014 elections and that the GOP will lose more of the house (if not their majority; they already lost the popular vote in the House) and more of the Senate.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1448 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
The GOP has a huge problem with prejudice, period. As a group, they don't like non-Christians (Jews are tolerated, other religions are scorned), non-heterosexuals, or non-whites. If you are in one of these groups, you are not very welcome in the party.

You forgot to mention that all us Republicans think that Deliverance was a love story.

 



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Except the DNC is not "at the other end of the spectrum." The issue is that the GOP is no longer a Conservative party; they are a reactionary party. The DNC is no longer Liberal but spans the spectrum from center-Right to mid-Left.

Totally untrue. The DNC is far left on the political spectrum, comparable to many communist parties. Anyone who denies this is intentionally being dishonest just to defend their party.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1444 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Except the DNC is not "at the other end of the spectrum." The issue is that the GOP is no longer a Conservative party; they are a reactionary party. The DNC is no longer Liberal but spans the spectrum from center-Right to mid-Left.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Don't believe me? Next time there's a pro-2nd Amendment ralley, I challenge you to show up carrying something semiautomatic while wearing Muslim garb. See how that goes for ya.

...or try being a conservative african-american at the DNC and see how that goes for ya.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
I get sick of this "neutrality for neutrality's sake" business. No, it is NOT that way in the DNC.

Please, you're just sounding like a partisan hack now, you may choose not to believe it's that way, but it doesn't change reality.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Did you see the floor of the hall at the DNC convention? Did you see the floor of the hall at the GOP convention? The DNC was full of all ages, colors, religions, and sexual orientations. The GOP you had to hunt to find anyone not white and middle-aged.

I respect you're intelligence too much to honestly think you could be that much of a stooge for cinematography. The Democrats have a much better grasp of "optics", I'll definitely grant you that, but just because one party has mastered the art of posturing doesn't mean that equates to actual representation.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 35):
Totally untrue. The DNC is far left on the political spectrum, comparable to many communist parties. Anyone who denies this is intentionally being dishonest just to defend their party.

Doc is actually spot on. If you look at leftist parties in other developed countries, the US center is actually far more right than any other country, which pushes both sides of the spectrum to the right resulting in a Democrat party that is really just center-right to center-left, and a GOP that is far right.

If you want to find a real communist party by definition, check out some of the leftist parties in Europe. A few of them get real close to the manifesto (except for the whole despot part...).

Frankly, I don't even feel all that comfortable calling the GOP a right-wing party, but they are the right-wing representative out of the two major parties in the States (which is a whole other issue for another thread), so that's what we go with. They really have their own brand of politics that in ways escapes true conservatism. I predict that the younger generation coming in and kicking out all the old, white guys that currently sit in power will take care of that.

Disclaimer: I'm a die-hard conservative, so there's no accusing me of "defending my party".



Flying refined.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 35):

Totally untrue. The DNC is far left on the political spectrum, comparable to many communist parties. Anyone who denies this is intentionally being dishonest just to defend their party.

You need to get out more and/or read a textbook on what communism is. People like you and your extreme attitude is what is killing the GOP. I used to be able to be a part of the GOP but ignorance like the kind you're displaying has made me throw my hands up and move to no man's land in between the parties. Be like some of the more respectable conservatives on this board, argue your opinion using rationality. You honestly sound like a sixth grader. Rants aren't gonna get you anywhere in life and they sure aren't helping your party look better



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 37):
If you look at leftist parties in other developed countries, the US center is actually far more right than any other country

This is true and, I believe, why many in other countries have such a hard time understanding US politics.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 37):
resulting in a Democrat party that is really just center-right to center-left, and a GOP that is far right.

You're looking at it from an international context however. As you said above, in most European countries "center" politics in the US is "center-right" in their politics. Additionally, the US has a much larger more vibrant conservative/libertarian electorate which often just doesn't exist in other countries. Love discussing international politics, but the US political spectrum is the only one that matters to voters and the parties.

If you look at the numbers, the portion of the electorate identifying as independent has skyrocketed in the last 15 years or so to the detriment of both parties which is a very clear indication that both parties have polarized themselves to an extent that an increasing number of people find unpalatable.


User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
I personally believe that any Democrat who calls any Republican racist should spend a lifetime in prison, since that is blatant slander, free speech or not.

Don't sugar coat it or anything...

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 37):
Frankly, I don't even feel all that comfortable calling the GOP a right-wing party, but they are the right-wing representative out of the two major parties in the States (which is a whole other issue for another thread), so that's what we go with. They really have their own brand of politics that in ways escapes true conservatism. I predict that the younger generation coming in and kicking out all the old, white guys that currently sit in power will take care of that.

And that's the problem. In America, what we call conservatism really is a lot closer to outright fascism. It's hard to imagine that our rampant militarism, ready acceptance of religious ideology as policy, complete rejection of all evidence gathered scientifically that the environment is in fact changing, blatant antipathy towards education, denial of the very serious and real racial disenfranchisement we still experience, and desire to keep so many people below the poverty line can be defined any other way.

In any other civilised country, I'd be a conservative, no question. But here in the US, we have really skewed that so far to the right that no libertarian or conservative party can be seen as something other than a hazard to the general public. As such, it becomes impossible to support such parties with a straight face.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):

You're looking at it from an international context however.

Is there another way? No country is an island, least of all us. How we appear, and what we do abroad matter a good deal more than the modern american right is capable of seeing. That is, if we value our economic prosperity at all...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1367 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Except the DNC is not "at the other end of the spectrum." The issue is that the GOP is no longer a Conservative party; they are a reactionary party. The DNC is no longer Liberal but spans the spectrum from center-Right to mid-Left.

Dead on.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 35):
Totally untrue. The DNC is far left on the political spectrum, comparable to many communist parties. Anyone who denies this is intentionally being dishonest just to defend their party.

You clearly have not been out much. You could hardly be more wrong.

The US Democratic Party indeed covers essentially most of the more center parts of the social democratic and the conservative spectrum as we have it in Europe.

The current main stream of the US Republican Party is so far out to the right that even in our conservative parties such as the german CDU/CSU ("christian democratic/social union") of chancellor Angela Merkel most of the US GOP positions are only found at the outer fringe without much if any political influence.

The main problem of the GOP is that it has almost completely abandoned any reason-based, civilized political discourse and has gone on a hysterically shrieking fanatical rampage against the current administration as if the administration's rather ordinary and pragmatic positions and policies were immediate signs of the impending apocalypse and the arrival of the antichrist.

The GOP has abandoned reasonable interaction so thoroughly that even their more pragmatic politicians have been cowed and sidelined in fear of "being primaried" by the lunatic fringe which has taken over the GOP main stream.

The Democratic party has a few outliers who one might indeed associate with the more leftist/socialist and in a tiny number of cases even communist parts of the spectrum, but Obama and his administration is pretty much dead at the center of the spectrum, reaching out to the social democratic part of the center in some areas and to the conservative part of the center in others. If you actually can't distinguish him from a "socialist" any more, that is rather due to your own far distance from the center.

The problem of the GOP is that not even overt election manipulations as we've seen (aggressively trying to suppress likely democratic voting and extreme gerrymandering) can change the fact that the current rabid extremism and outright destructive operation in Congress is not appreciated by a majority of the US voters, and support is further eroding as we speak.

The electoral system in the US is a pretty horrible mess to begin with, and that it basically enforces a two-party system has contributed a great deal to the current effectively hostage situation where the conservative party is unable to shake off the takeover by a fanatical minority as it would be possible in a more flexible system, such as the Green Party effectively splitting off from the SPD in Germany and charting its own political course, having to fight for votes on their own terms.

As things are now, the GOP is dragged down by the fanatics in its entirety – and the USA has no conservative party any more, just one center-somewhat-left party and a fanatically shrieking fringe party on the far-out right which is in the process of going down in flames in slow motion before our very eyes.

And it is really not a pretty sight, if still a somewhat fascinating one – roughly in the way of the sinking Titanic in the movie.

At some point the USA will need (and will probably receive again) an actual conservative party without the excesses of the present, but it appears the recent electoral defeat was not sufficient to knock some sense into the existing GOP.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):

What is this slander? You should be jailed for life  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1338 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):
You're looking at it from an international context however. As you said above, in most European countries "center" politics in the US is "center-right" in their politics.

And that's really my point. If you take a running average (if there were a way to quantify it) of the center-point of all developed governments, the US would likely be one of the outliers towards the right. My post was more-so looking at it from an average, rather than from my own government. I'm fairly certain my own government would be slightly right of the average, but still far left of the US.

But my main point was to the poster who likened your Democrats to communist parties, which is absolutely laughable. The US doesn't have anything close to a legit communist party, at least not a significant one.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):
If you look at the numbers, the portion of the electorate identifying as independent has skyrocketed in the last 15 years or so to the detriment of both parties which is a very clear indication that both parties have polarized themselves to an extent that an increasing number of people find unpalatable.

Probably for the best. I've tried arguing to death with Americans that a two-party system is destined for failure, and we can already see it happening, yet most disagree with me. As you say, having only two parties is guaranteed to create the polarization we're already seeing just in this thread. Perhaps down the line, in a decade or so, we will see these independents aligning themselves into a viable third party. It would certainly make things more interesting. For example, in Canada we have five major parties (Liberals, PC, NDP, Green, and the Bloc Quebecois), and it makes for really interesting debates and elections. Furthermore, it commands more compromise in parliament, rather than A vs. B stalemates.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 40):
In America, what we call conservatism really is a lot closer to outright fascism

Let's not be silly now. The GOP has its radicals, but it's hardly fascism.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 40):
In any other civilised country, I'd be a conservative, no question.

That's up for interpretation. For example, I'm a die-hard conservative in my home-country, but if I became a voting US citizen tomorrow, I wouldn't be a Democrat or a Republican. I'm too right-wing to be a Dem, but also, as I mention earlier, the GOP has escaped my brand of conservatism. I have no time for all their silly social policies.

But to keep my post on topic...said social policies don't necessarily make them actively "racist". Off the top of my head I can't think of any racist policies they have on paper.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 42):
What is this slander?

Dammit people, learn the difference between slander and libel!   

(I know you're being tongue-in-cheek, but it still drives me nuts  )



Flying refined.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 40):
But here in the US, we have really skewed that so far to the right that no libertarian or conservative party can be seen as something other than a hazard to the general public.

So now your political opposition is "a hazard to the general public"? Get real.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 40):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):

You're looking at it from an international context however.

Is there another way?

It doesn't matter because it isn't germane to the topic, each country is unique politically and you can't really point to any one and say, "There, that there is the true left-right political spectrum", it's so incredibly subjective. So no, when talking about where each party falls on the political spectrum it doesn't make sense to relate it internationally (unless you're trying to analogize US politics for a foreigner) because US voters don't see it that way.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
And that's really my point. If you take a running average (if there were a way to quantify it) of the center-point of all developed governments, the US would likely be one of the outliers towards the right.

That's fine, I agree with your assessment, but as far as I can tell, Doc wasn't talking about the broader international political spectrum and thus I disagree with his assertion within the context of the US politics.


Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
Probably for the best.

I agree!

[Edited 2013-05-15 15:47:13]

User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
Let's not be silly now. The GOP has its radicals, but it's hardly fascism.


The only thing that truly separates it from traditional fascism is the resentment of taxes, hence why I didn't mention that. But no, it's not silly at all, unfortunately. We're not talking about the party of Eisenhower & Nixon anymore. DocLight was right on when he said that they are more reactionary than anything else.

WRT the term fascism, the most accurate description I've heard for the GOP is "Privatized Fascism." Supporting (both tacitly and publicly) all manner of corporate welfare (reference Corporations are People), at the expense of personal freedoms and liberties, this is not as great a leap as you think. The GOP likely isn't the only party on Earth to do this, but they've done a great job making it their image.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
I wouldn't be a Democrat or a Republican. I'm too right-wing to be a Dem, but also, as I mention earlier, the GOP has escaped my brand of conservatism. I have no time for all their silly social policies.

Well I guess you'd be in a bind if you were a US Voter. You could go the libertarian route, but that has its own problems with extremism and a more or less total lack of cohesion/identity. Aside from that...?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 43):
But to keep my post on topic...said social policies don't necessarily make them actively "racist". Off the top of my head I can't think of any racist policies they have on paper.

The GOP's problem with race isn't that they're racist per se, it's that they do nothing to distance themselves from the issue or at least the troublemakers involved. And I honestly don't understand why that is. After all it isn't votes they have to worry about. The racists and religious zealots aren't suddenly going to vote D anytime soon...

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 44):
each country is unique politically and you can't really point to any one and say, "There, that there is the true left-right political spectrum", it's so incredibly subjective.

Only on a person to person level. There really isn't a whole lot of room for debate as to how far right we are. A good bellwether for this is to take a look at the social issues that we're still dealing with that most other places aren't. On any meaningful scale, the only socially conservative issue I can see that holds a candle to us is Australia's problems with racism.

There will always be details that differ here and there, but if you look at large scale issues, racism mgmt, education, health care, progressive taxation, military spending/adventurism, sustainable energy policies, things like that, yeah, we're about as far right as it's safe for a country our size to be.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 44):
each country is unique politically and you can't really point to any one and say, "There, that there is the true left-right political spectrum", it's so incredibly subjective.

Only on a person to person level. There really isn't a whole lot of room for debate as to how far right we are.

I'm not saying we're not center-right compared to the rest of the world, I'm saying that you can't point to any one and declare it the "true, legitimate" political spectrum.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
A good bellwether for this is to take a look at the social issues that we're still dealing with that most other places aren't. On any meaningful scale, the only socially conservative issue I can see that holds a candle to us is Australia's problems with racism.

Are you kidding? Banning burqa's in France, banning the construction of minarets for mosques in Switzerland, Sharia courts in the UK, racial tensions between North Africans in France, France only just now legalizing gay marriage...etc. Nasty riots have become almost a common occurrence in Europe...as someone who's lived there, they definitely have plenty of their own social problems.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
The GOP likely isn't the only party on Earth to do this, but they've done a great job making it their image.

And you don't think the Democrats' practice corporate welfare with their own brand of crony capitalism? Take off your partisan blinders.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
The only thing that truly separates it from traditional fascism is the resentment of taxes, hence why I didn't mention that. But no, it's not silly at all, unfortunately.

You're ignoring arguably the largest tenet of fascism: totalitarianism. You can argue that Bush 43 was a terrible President that lied and made stupid decisions, but he was the furthest thing from a despotic leader. He was democratically elected, and he democracy replaced him with a Democrat President-elect.

Secondly, another major tenet of fascism is emphasis on "the youth" of the country. Forgive me for taking a swipe at the US, but you guys are not doing a great job supporting the youth of your nation, and neither party seems overly interested in solving that problem. Therefore, GOP isn't fascist.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
Supporting (both tacitly and publicly) all manner of corporate welfare (reference Corporations are People), at the expense of personal freedoms and liberties

Exactly...and fascism rejects capitalism. Therefore, GOP isn't fascist.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
Well I guess you'd be in a bind if you were a US Voter. You could go the libertarian route, but that has its own problems with extremism and a more or less total lack of cohesion/identity. Aside from that...?

I hate to say it, but unless there's an independent out there that is fiscally-minded, I'd probably just spoil my vote (abstaining is for lazy people).

Actually...you guys use machines down there, right? Is it even possible to spoil a vote?

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 45):
The GOP's problem with race isn't that they're racist per se, it's that they do nothing to distance themselves from the issue or at least the troublemakers involved. And I honestly don't understand why that is.

Fair enough. Point understood. But I feel I should point out that the GOP front-runner right now for 2016 isn't even white...

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 46):
Are you kidding? Banning burqa's in France, banning the construction of minarets for mosques in Switzerland, Sharia courts in the UK, racial tensions between North Africans in France, France only just now legalizing gay marriage...etc. Nasty riots have become almost a common occurrence in Europe...as someone who's lived there, they definitely have plenty of their own social problems.

   And that's only to name a few. Parts of Europe have quite a few problems with intolerance as well (we can't really call it racism since Islam isn't a race).



Flying refined.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 34):
You forgot to mention that all us Republicans think that Deliverance was a love story.

Yup.  
Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 40):
In America, what we call conservatism really is a lot closer to outright fascism.

Nope. In Fascism there is an emphasis on the power of the state and forced equality of the people, not dissimilar to Communism.

The GOP's overall platform seems to be a mixture of anarchy with theocracy. On the one hand, they want absolutely no regulation of business at all. They want the government to be out of just about everything. There were even calls to abolish the Interstate Highway system. Except the military. They want lots and lots and lots of money spent there.

On the other hand, they want INTENSE government regulation of personal behavior. They want sodomy criminalized (and only recently removed this from their official platform), abortion banned, even all pornography banned. They want mandatory Christian prayer in schools and creationism taught. Of course, at the same time, many of them would like to do away with public schools altogether. Mr. Santorum, one of the leading Presidential candidates in the last election, said that he believed that the Constitution did not guarantee a right to privacy. In North Carolina just last month, leading GOP politicians tried to establish a state religion (but fortunately were shot down by top party leadership).

These positions are 1) not exaggerations or mischaracterizations. These are positions that have been espoused by major political candidates and political leaders within the party and 2) are not consistent with any currently described position on the political spectrum.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 42):
What is this slander? You should be jailed for life

From the tea partiers' point of view I'm already living in a hellhole of oppressive gun restrictions, horrifyingly overreaching social policies and rampant secularism.

From their point of view, US jail would already be a step up...!   

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 46):
I'm not saying we're not center-right compared to the rest of the world, I'm saying that you can't point to any one and declare it the "true, legitimate" political spectrum.

The primary problem of the GOP today is not even just their location within the political spectrum, but that they've almost completely abandoned their participation in a civilized political discourse in favour of just slandering their political opponents and going for outright obstruction of the state in the hope that that would then hurt the democratically elected President.

If they still engaged in some productive or at least reasonably recognizable political interaction, the GOP would play a legitimate part, but they are just obsessed with inflicting the maximum possible damage to everyone and everything that might look like it was "the government" and particularly anybody belonging to their rabidly vilified opposite party.

The madness and the obsessive destructivity is the GOP's primary problem, not so much a cohesive political point of view. They've simply left the debate and taken to the hills, resorting to just sniping from the fringe instead of participating in the legitimate and democratic process of self-government.


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1290 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):

I would imagine that if someone were a liberal and lived in the Bay Area where everyone nods yes in lock step with anything leftist they would surmise that some people on the left are center right. But that would be a false perrception brought about by living in an insulated area of the US that is so far left that even New York and Washington DC appear conservative and not a reflection of reality.


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):
The GOP's overall platform seems to be a mixture of anarchy with theocracy. On the one hand, they want absolutely no regulation of business at all. They want the government to be out of just about everything. There were even calls to abolish the Interstate Highway system. Except the military. They want lots and lots and lots of money spent there.

On the other hand, they want INTENSE government regulation of personal behavior. They want sodomy criminalized (and only recently removed this from their official platform), abortion banned, even all pornography banned. They want mandatory Christian prayer in schools and creationism taught. Of course, at the same time, many of them would like to do away with public schools altogether. Mr. Santorum, one of the leading Presidential candidates in the last election, said that he believed that the Constitution did not guarantee a right to privacy. In North Carolina just last month, leading GOP politicians tried to establish a state religion (but fortunately were shot down by top party leadership).

These positions are 1) not exaggerations or mischaracterizations. These are positions that have been espoused by major political candidates and political leaders within the party and 2) are not consistent with any currently described position on the political spectrum.

Most of what you've described there fits Neo-Cons like Karl Rove and GWB to a "T" and are just as rabidly despised by many conservatives and libertarians like myself as Obama, the Democrats and their policies. But to think waco, extremist stances on odd policies is mostly limited to Republicans is very much incorrect.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 49):
The primary problem of the GOP today is not even just their location within the political spectrum, but that they've almost completely abandoned their participation in a civilized political discourse in favour of just slandering their political opponents and going for outright obstruction of the state in the hope that that would then hurt the democratically elected President.

If they still engaged in some productive or at least reasonably recognizable political interaction, the GOP would play a legitimate part, but they are just obsessed with inflicting the maximum possible damage to everyone and everything that might look like it was "the government" and particularly anybody belonging to their rabidly vilified opposite party.

To characterize these behaviors as strictly limited to one side is ridiculous. Again, I'm not saying that the Republicans don't engage in this type of behavior, but it takes two to tango and drawing up some fantastic narrative that "poor little ole Democrats are working as hard as they can at bipartisanship, but the big mean Republicans are just being unreasonable" is disingenuous.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40076 posts, RR: 74
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

This is a pointless topic. Both parties have their fair-share of racist.
With only two major political parties, there is bound to be unsavory groups affiliated with both parties.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1121 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):
In Fascism there is an emphasis on the power of the state and forced equality of the people, not dissimilar to Communism.

And with everything you wrote below that, you don't think there's a very strong push for sameness?

We'll probably end up having to disagree, but I don't see how anything you said is mutually exclusive from anything I did.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 52):
This is a pointless topic. Both parties have their fair-share of racist.
With only two major political parties, there is bound to be unsavory groups affiliated with both parties.

I will totally buy off on that. Cast a big enough net, and you're bound to catch a lot of boots.

Or souveniers from the Pacific Trash Vortex... which republicans probably don't think exists,  



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 52):
This is a pointless topic. Both parties have their fair-share of racist.
With only two major political parties, there is bound to be unsavory groups affiliated with both parties.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party will never admit it, and all the name calling only goes one way. If a Republican were to call a Democrat a racist then he would get attacked and possibly sued by the Democrats. The Democrats just have an unfair advantage here, which is why I think it should be illegal for any Democrat to call any Republican a racist.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1079 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 54):
The Democrats just have an unfair advantage here, which is why I think it should be illegal for any Democrat to call any Republican a racist.

Since it should be illegal, what should be the punishment then? And should it be legal to prosecute a Republican in that matter?



"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 56, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1073 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 54):
I think it should be illegal for any Democrat to call any Republican a racist.

*cough* First Amendment *cough*



Flying refined.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2019 posts, RR: 21
Reply 57, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1039 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 54):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 52):
This is a pointless topic. Both parties have their fair-share of racist.
With only two major political parties, there is bound to be unsavory groups affiliated with both parties.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party will never admit it, and all the name calling only goes one way. If a Republican were to call a Democrat a racist then he would get attacked and possibly sued by the Democrats. The Democrats just have an unfair advantage here, which is why I think it should be illegal for any Democrat to call any Republican a racist.

Rather outlandish if you seriously believe that. While I do think in the US that the term "racist" is bandied about way too casually, as a conservative classical libertarian I would never desire such restrictions on freedom of speech and nor should you if you consider yourself a conservative.

As the famous misattributed quote of Voltaire goes, "Je ne suis pas d'accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu'au bout pour que vous puissiez le dire."
Translation: "I do not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the end for your right to say it."


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