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My Niece Is Pregnant...  
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Well under most conditions this would be a happy event. However, I cannot be more disappointed in my niece for her decision, and the father of her baby?? Well I better never run into him in this life or any other.

My niece just turned 19, which IMHO is way to young to have a baby from a maturity standpoint. The next part is what has my blood boiling.

The father of her baby is 46 years old. He is the father of the family that she has been babysitting for the past couple of years.

My niece thinks he will leave his wife and family and they will live happily ever after. Fat chance.

I am so mad at this guy for taking advantage of my niece words cannot even describe my rage...

111 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4003 times:
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Oh dear, that really is a difficult one to deal with. Given his familial situation and his superior age, I can fully understand why you feel she's been taken advantage of.

I guess the only advice I can give you is to try and put the rage aside and support her as best you can.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19188 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
My niece thinks he will leave his wife and family and they will live happily ever after. Fat chance

I agree, but it is her life - and there isn't an awful lot you can do about it. And while the outcome seems somewhat inevitable, perhaps it will help her in the longer-run.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
Oh dear, that really is a difficult one to deal with. Given his familial situation and his superior age, I can fully understand why you feel she's been taken advantage of.

I agree.

[Edited 2013-05-18 11:07:07]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7085 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

I wonder why this is your problem, you are not her parent, you're just a relative whose opinion doesn't matter. She on the other hand is a 19 year old who fell for an older bloke, happens all the time, the smart ones get an abortion and get on with their lives and the rest...........

At 19 she's old enough to know what she was getting herself into.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
I wonder why this is your problem, you are not her parent, you're just a relative whose opinion doesn't matter.

We are very close, always have been.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3940 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
I wonder why this is your problem, you are not her parent, you're just a relative whose opinion doesn't matter.

That's a bit harsh. I can totally understand why he cares. I love my nephews and nieces very much, and would be gutted if anything bad happened to them.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineL0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 1532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
My niece thinks he will leave his wife and family and they will live happily ever after. Fat chance.

Of course he'll leave his wife for your 19 years old niece, and 20 years from now he'll leave your niece for another 19 years old! Just another sleazebag.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7085 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
I love my nephews and nieces very much, and would be gutted if anything bad happened to them.

Getting pregnant isn't bad, she's not dead, she wasn't in an accident, she got knocked up, she probably had fun doing it too.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3913 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 7):
Getting pregnant isn't bad, she's not dead, she wasn't in an accident, she got knocked up, she probably had fun doing it too.

Worse things happen of course, but how big a deal it is just depends on lots of things, doesn't it? Perhaps she had a bright educational future, for example, which has just been made ten times less likely to happen - we don't know. There are many potential variables.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7085 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
Perhaps she had a bright educational future, for example, which has just been made ten times less likely to happen - we don't know.

She can always sort it out, she doesn't have to have the baby if she doesn't want to, it's her choice.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3881 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 9):
She can always sort it out, she doesn't have to have the baby if she doesn't want to, it's her choice.

Obviously. But that's not necessarily great either. I guess the only point is that yes, it might not be the worst thing ever, but it's also quite understandable why it might be a big deal too.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19370 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

As a physician who works with this age group, I have to have my face in my hands. Every 19-year-old woman should be on birth control. Every. Last. One.

She has to have seen a physician in the last year or so; why didn't any of them make sure she was on something?

I'm sorry you and she and her family are going through this. Unintended pregnancy sucks... and it's so preventable.  


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7085 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):

Obviously. But that's not necessarily great either.

Unless you have experience how do you know?


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
My niece just turned 19
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
The father of her baby is 46 years old

Wow, I am only 45! Does that mean there's a real change for to sleep with another 18 or 19-year-old? Sunbed here I come.
No, honestly, that's an awful situation.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
Unintended pregnancy sucks... and it's so preventable.

Well, I could name a couple of people who became parents while using some sort of contraception, and I don't mean some esoteric stuff. None of them were 19, though.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4375 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
the smart ones get an abortion and get on with their lives and the rest...........

Uhhh. Abortion is an option, yes, but hardly the only option if she feels she cannot handle this at her point in her life.

Last thing the world needs is someone like you to pontificate how abortion is the only real option for someone 'smart' or intelligent.

Are you smart too? Are you usually one to correlate intellect with a callous indifference for human dignity? Wow, Mr. Smarty-pants indeed.

Well thank goodness for all the stupid, uneducated neanderthals who have continued to bring life into this world under unideal circumstances...

Abortion is not the only option, and is often knee jerk and short sighted, she should look into all the alternatives.

[Edited 2013-05-18 13:21:42]

[Edited 2013-05-18 13:25:22]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3778 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):
Unless you have experience how do you know?

Are you suggesting that an abortion can ever be a desirable thing?? Sure it might sometimes be the least worst option, but that's not the same thing. I think the vast majority of people, regardless of whether they're in favour of abortions being legal, would consider it something best avoided.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6513 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
the smart ones get an abortion

I'd say they don't get pregnant. My little sister was on the pill as soon as boys were around.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 14):
Uhhh. Abortion is an option, yes, but hardly the only option if she feels she cannot handle this at her point in her life.

Last thing the world needs is someone like you to pontificate how abortion is the only real option for someone 'smart' or intelligence.

Are you smart too? Are you usually one to correlate intellect with a callous indifference for human dignity? Wow, Mr. Smarty-pants indeed.

Well thank goodness for all the stupid, uneducated neanderthals who have continued to bring life into this world under unideal circumstances...

Abortion is not the only option, and is often knee jerk and short sighted, she should look into all the alternatives.

Do you have numbers to back that up ? Juno is a nice movie but I doubt it happens much in practice, not after 9 months in the womb.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4375 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):

Do you have numbers to back that up ? Juno is a nice movie but I doubt it happens much in practice, not after 9 months in the womb.

I don't have the 'numbers' you crave, but I do have my heartbeat. It's relative commonplace and happens all the time.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13507 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3743 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
Obviously. But that's not necessarily great either.
Unless you have experience how do you know?

kiwirob, you really oughta quit while you're behind.

Seriously.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7085 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 14):

Abortion is not the only option, and is often knee jerk and short sighted, she should look into all the alternatives.

At 19 it's often the best option.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Are you suggesting that an abortion can ever be a desirable thing??

Yes I am. There are a lot of women who should have had an abortion, didn't and regretted it for the rest of their lives. I've went through the process with a previous partner, we were in our early 20's, not the right time of our lives to have children, I would have supported her in whatever decision she wanted to make, she chose abortion, I supported her choice. We've both since had 3 kids each, neither of us has a problem with what happened and both agree in hindsight the decision we made was the best one for both of us, our lives would be completely different today had we had the child.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):

I'd say they don't get pregnant. My little sister was on the pill as soon as boys were around.

Smart parents, my wife and I have already talked about what we will do with our daughter when she starts getting interested in boys, getting her on the pill is the obvious and sensible answer, I don't believe in abstinence, that's complete bs IMO, teenagers shag like rabbits, I did, I'm pretty sure my kids will too, after all we do live in Norway.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3731 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):
At 19 it's often the best option.
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):
Yes I am. There are a lot of women who should have had an abortion, didn't and regretted it for the rest of their lives. I've went through the process with a previous partner, we were in our early 20's, not the right time of our lives to have children, I would have supported her in whatever decision she wanted to make, she chose abortion, I supported her choice. We've both since had 3 kids each, neither of us has a problem with what happened and both agree in hindsight the decision we made was the best one for both of us, our lives would be completely different today had we had the child.

I pretty much said that I understood there were situations where it's the best option in an undesirable situation, but the point is that the fact you have to even come to make that choice is a bad thing and surely best avoided in the first place! It's never an outright positive thing. Sure it can be the lesser of two evils.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4375 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3727 times:

Saying 'the smart ones get an abortion' is an incredibly vile, pretentious, and ignorant thing to say.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3728 times:

My girlfriend´s sister got knocked up unintentionally while still in college and lost contact with the father. While her family in the Philippines was at first a bit upset, they soon adapted to the situation. Her now 6 year old daughter is the darling of the family and is a really smart girl (in elementary school they advanced her a year because she was bored in school. She taught herself how to read when she was only 4 years old). And the mother finished college as well because her whole family supported her and took over duties as babysitters when requried.
We are joking that the girl has 4 daddies and about half a dozen mothers (my girlfriend´s brothers, the husband of her older sister, my girlfriend´s other sisters and some cousins).

Jan


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 3):
She on the other hand is a 19 year old who fell for an older bloke, happens all the time, the smart ones get an abortion and get on with their lives and the rest...........

No, the smart ones don't get pregnant in the first place and get on with their lives and the rest...


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7085 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
the fact you have to even come to make that choice is a bad thing

I don't see it as a bad thing, it's just something that happened.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 21):
Saying 'the smart ones get an abortion' is an incredibly vile, pretentious, and ignorant thing to say.

I gather you're a religious right wing anti abortion type.

Quoting Polot (Reply 23):

No, the smart ones don't get pregnant in the first place and get on with their lives and the rest...

Some smart ones also get knocked up, my ex is now a judge.


25 NoUFO : And there are others who did have an abortion and later needed a psychotherapist. Good for you and your wife, but is this really the norm? The pill i
26 kiwirob : Not wife, ex girlfriend. Who is to say it isn't the norm, you don't know, neither do I, but I suspect far more women don't have an issue with it than
27 NoUFO : So? A 2011 study funded by the U.S. Department of Health found that the incidence of mental health problems in women who have an unwanted pregnancy w
28 Aesma : A pregnancy is far more dangerous than the pill.
29 JoePatroni707 : The biggest thorn in my side is the age difference. She is over 18, but a 27 year age gap?? Thats what really pisses me off and thats why this relatio
30 Silver1SWA : The smartest decision this girl can make is to do what's best for her while eliminating the idea from her mind that she will live happily ever after w
31 flyguy89 : Wow, according to you, my mother is an idiot and if she was smart, she should have aborted me. Nice. I don't believe in banning abortion, but to call
32 Braniff747SP : What inherent moral contradiction? Morality is not objective, and things are judged, individually, based on our own standard of morality. You can't h
33 aaron747 : What is vile about it when it can be true given the right context? It is equally pretentious to respond to a scenario like this with the attitude tha
34 flyguy89 : Yeah, if you take a relativists approach to morality. Is murder or stealing not immoral to you? Because, after all, to the thief, he's not doing anyt
35 Polot : And I am sure you can find plenty of smart and successful people who got knocked up and decided to keep the baby. That doesn't mean the smartest choi
36 Braniff747SP : Inmoral to me? Yes, killing/stealing/raping is inmoral to me. What I'm saying it that you can't claim inherent moral contradictions for anything as w
37 flyguy89 : What is the difference between "Right and wrong" and morality? None. That's fine if you're simply limiting the parameters as to whether or not you be
38 Braniff747SP : Society's right and wrong is expressed through law. Morality is a personal parameter of right and wrong. They are not the same thing. It may be a con
39 aaron747 : No I'm saying it would be sick to have such a twisted perspective on one's own past that they would look in their children's eyes and do what was des
40 Post contains images WestJet747 : The age aspect doesn't bother me so much, but the fact that this man has a family that he is likely to leave behind for a 19-year old is despicable.
41 vikkyvik : Where's the contradiction? If they had come along 10 years earlier, the entire situation is different. You can't use the fact that you love them 10+
42 flyguy89 : ...and what guides the creation of such laws?
43 flyguy89 : "...the smart ones get an abortion and get on with their lives and the rest..." not a whole lot to leave up to the imagination. A degree of relativis
44 WestJet747 : Right. I don't think anybody here is arguing in favour of pure subjectivism though. The way I interpreted your arguments was that you were saying the
45 Aesma : Abortion is not killing to me. I'm not talking about late term abortion, that only the US and developing countries even allow outside of medical reaso
46 flyguy89 : Yeah fair enough, I can see how it's not necessarily a contradiction per se, but I can't really understand how that's a healthy perspective to have o
47 aaron747 : I would place myself in this category as well. I would not make the choice myself, but I am hardly in a position to make that decision for others, mu
48 Braniff747SP : Most certainly not morality. Agreed.
49 kiwirob : Right on the button.
50 vikkyvik : No. You decided to have your child. You made the decision, now it's too late. In theory. But there are plenty of mothers/fathers who either kill thei
51 kiwirob : It wouldn't be the same child it would have been another child so how does that relate to the children you had 10 years later.
52 MD11Engineer : Who in this case profits from an abortion? In the end only the guy, who can hide his affair and won´t have to pay child support. My sister had an abo
53 Mir : If they're wise enough (which as children they may not be), they will probably see the merit in the philosophy. If the parents aren't capable of prop
54 flyguy89 : It all ultimately depends on whether or not you believe abortion is killing a child. I do, so therefor I don't see how you can make the distinction t
55 Flighty : Exactly. This kind of thing is what makes the world go round. 19 years old is plenty old enough to have a baby. Our contemporary attitude that 40 yea
56 WestJet747 : I don't have kids, but I can't see why any parent would say such a thing to their kids whether it were true or not! I've had a completely different e
57 vikkyvik : Dunno. It's probably kind of difficult in jail. I think it's a perfectly healthy perspective on life. Too many people bring kids into unhealthy or ju
58 Aesma : Well I'm of the opinion that if the father has no say in what the mother does, then he should not have to pay either. Then it's only her choice and h
59 MD11Engineer : Ok, our teenage pregnancy rate here in the continental European countries is somehow lower than in the Englishpeaking ones (I wonder why?), but there
60 Flighty : Few people are mentally and financially prepared to have a child, in a loving marriage with excellent childbearing ability. Almost no-one I know. But
61 WestJet747 : I don't know what the excuse is the UK or US is, but in Canada it's a Catholic school system that teaches abstinence rather than safe sex practices.
62 jpetekyxmd80 : After I stopped laughing (which was quite a while), it brought me to question what either politics or religion have to do with this discussion, or my
63 Braniff747SP : Here we go again with the morality issue... It's a nonsensical argument as I explained above.
64 jpetekyxmd80 : It had a greater point. If I am the 'religious right' because I am not raving about the virtues of abortion, by the same token why would I believe hi
65 WestJet747 : Well we can definitely agree on that! Right, which is the point of threads, to discuss opposing points of view...but there was no need to lose it on
66 jpetekyxmd80 : Not saying he should be, but I am saying he shouldn't feel the need to convince others to do likewise if they are 'smart', which is how I viewed his
67 WestJet747 : True, but it's a pointless argument given that the exact opposite can also be argued. They cancel each other out. Well I only believe abortion should
68 jpetekyxmd80 : It is not a pointless argument. It is the perfect and logical rebuttal to: No one is saying she needs to keep the baby afterwords. You pretty much ex
69 WestJet747 : How do I have a bias? I've never gotten a girl pregnant, and I'm not the result of an accidental pregnancy. I'm looking at this from a very unemotion
70 jpetekyxmd80 : Yeah... I was talking about myself and kiwirob.... Why????? I'm sorry, that's completely ignorant. Hoards of people flock to China, Russia, all over
71 Braniff747SP : Why? All I hear is that it is a terrible thing yet I never hear the why.
72 jpetekyxmd80 : If you have to ask, you will never understand.
73 Post contains images WestJet747 : My mistake. I know a three families that have adopted overseas, one from Russia (twins), and the other two from China. Two of the three couples have
74 Braniff747SP : Well, I'm curious. I don't need to understand nor agree.
75 flyguy89 : I'm sorry, you're just never going to convince me that death is a better alternative to life, no matter how bad the situation may be. Alfred Lord Ten
76 jpetekyxmd80 : Great. Hopefully you didn't console her by telling her if the choice had been yours, you'd have sent her to the rubbish bin before even considering a
77 jpetekyxmd80 : I must say, this entire conversation has been most enlightening to me. Typically, when you'd think of the 'religious right' or the conservative side o
78 Braniff747SP : I love watching 'debates' like this--they entertain me... Everyone knows that they won't be able to win over the other. I'm still waiting for this ex
79 jpetekyxmd80 : There's nothing I can explain. It either bothers you or it doesn't.
80 Braniff747SP : That's absurd. You contend one side of the argument with the warrant of it being 'morally sound', yet you provide no reasoning for it. Morality is no
81 WestJet747 : What a horrible thing to say! You might not agree with my opinions, but at least I haven't degraded to taking personal shots at you. What about the e
82 Braniff747SP : The name calling bit is useless--for that I can tune into Fox or MSNBC--rather, I enjoy the futile attempt to try to get the other to believe in your
83 WestJet747 : Well there is something to be said about the lack of religious arguments used. That's definitely a step forward!
84 vikkyvik : Nothing to be sorry for. I'm not trying to convince you. Though, if you never lived, you would never actually know you had a choice, etc. I don't per
85 jpetekyxmd80 : Then why are you asking me to bring out the chisel?? I can't explain to you why aren't morally opposed to abortion. Sometimes it comes from religion,
86 jpetekyxmd80 : This rift here has been a rift AMONG 'pro-choicers'. And I really fail to see where i've been the one with the unwavering convictions.
87 jpetekyxmd80 : Why? Just because I used your own words against you? I really fail to see how someone seemingly against the concept of adoption could suitably consol
88 Braniff747SP : Indeed; however, in a situation such as this which is inherently divisive we can't arrive at a consensus. Considering that, in theory, matters of pub
89 jpetekyxmd80 : The only thing I am trying to convince anyone of is to be more open minded in these matters about alternatives and success stories different from thei
90 Braniff747SP : I haven't heard a peep about religion from you, so you're one of the better ones... I meant that only in the sense of, considering what you believe t
91 DeltaMD90 : I think it's quite simple, you think it's bad because you're killing a baby or you think it's moral to remove a clump of cells before it gets born in
92 Braniff747SP : Agreed. This is what the whole argument comes down to. Pro-lifers don't want to abort because they think it's killing another human being, while the
93 Aesma : They may agree (at least in the US) but they don't fix their adoption system nor help young mothers etc., so it's hypocritical at best. In France abo
94 Braniff747SP : Extremely hypocritical, especially when you look at the Tea Party. On one hand, they advocate for the end of abortion--fair enough--but on the other,
95 DeltaMD90 : I wouldn't say it's hypocritical, but I definitely think there are better options. I think it's more of the tough love kind of thinking--you made the
96 Braniff747SP : It, frankly, doesn't make any sense. The 'tough love' kind of thinking is not one of a civilized society; we are to care for those that can't care fo
97 JoePatroni707 : Just spent a long time on the phone with her, she is scared (understandably so). The father of the baby is pressuring her to abort (she does not want
98 WestJet747 : Is her mom your sister? I think having a very serious conversation with her about family support would be a good start. Your niece made a foolish dec
99 Post contains images cmf : Way to go mom. Your kid is dealing with the biggest issue she has faced in her life and you decide to make it tougher Here is what I would do. Take h
100 MD11Engineer : I agree. And if necessary, offer her (and the baby) to stay with you. Jan
101 stealthz : So this part doesn't look like working out.. I am not going to enter into the Anti/Pro Abortion debate or US social security issue, What I will say,
102 na : Disgusting. I´d for sure plan something for him. He is responsible for destroying two families. Nothing to let him get away with it. I am the godfat
103 stealthz : I totally understand this but for your niece and her baby, you and her immediate family need to put this behind you AND NOW!
104 kiwirob : So you're saying that a woman should go through 9 not very pleasant months to have a baby which she doesn't want just to give it to some people that
105 jpetekyxmd80 : What is selfish of me? What do I get out of this arrangement?[Edited 2013-05-23 13:17:53]
106 DeltaMD90 : Not if you believe the fetus is a baby, killing it would be the selfish thing. Not sure if that is what jpetekyxmd80 is saying, but please at least t
107 Aesma : Many embryos are kept frozen, should women line up to carry them ?
108 idealstandard : As per usual I'm with Kiwirob, he is straight forward and succinct. You can pussy foot around the situation as much as you want but it won't help.
109 MD11Engineer : It rather looks as if she wants to have the baby and he wants her to get rid of it. It would defintely be the easy way out for him, no child support
110 kiwirob : I don't see where you got this from? Best not to think about it then, it won't get you anywhere.
111 Aesma : Either it's the woman choice or it is not. Either women can enjoy sex or they can't. Either there was a sexual revolution or there wasn't. Either we l
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