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Oklahoma Tornadoes  
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

Pictures coming in from Helicopters of the damage from a massive 1.5 mile wide tornado hitting the outskirts of Oklahoma City. Parts of neighborhoods are destroyed, nothing left. Two schools have been completely destroyed. Terrible pictures, hopefully casualties won't be too high but it sure does look horrible. One of the worst if not the worst tornado scenes I have ever seen.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/20/us/severe-weather/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Edited 2013-05-20 13:59:18]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
138 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

About 4 miles south of me.
Serious concern here since house was leveled in the May 3 1999 tornado. It started out on similar path but turned to an eastward movement.
Massive hail here sounded like elephants were dancing on roof.

From all the local tv channel feeds it appears to have only been about a 1/2 mile wide.
Massive pile of vehicles on I-35 that were caught in the storm.

Back later

Okie


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 1):
Massive pile of vehicles on I-35 that were caught in the storm.

Videos of cars all over the place and buildings just gone. Crazy. Reminds me of Hurricane Andrew in 1992.

Quoting okie (Reply 1):
From all the local tv channel feeds it appears to have only been about a 1/2 mile wide.

National TV is saying 1.5 miles to 2 miles.

Another large tornado is on the ground near by. Stay Safe.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

My parents are in Broken Arrow, so watching closely...... prayers to all affected


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
National TV is saying 1.5 miles to 2 miles

I think they are talking debris field an minor damage, the actual scouring of the ground and total destruction looks to be only
1/2 mile wide but I will monitor and get back. An F4 for sure maybe an F5
The tornado was on the ground for 12 to 14 miles it appears at this point.

The area that was hit was pretty high density suburban housing and multiple deaths are being reported but no actual count at this point.

Okie


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3623 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

The photos and footage I have seen so far is horrible. Hope this ends soon for everyone affected!

I never understood why communities that are continuously hit by tornadoes do not build with stronger materials such as stone or cement. It may be more expensive but it lasts longer and does not require building again and again and again in such cases.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4100 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 5):
It may be more expensive but it lasts longer and does not require building again and again and again in such cases.

An F5 is 300+ mph. Just a little over the top to build structures to that kind of rotating wind load.

Several tornado's are still east of the OKC area but out in rural areas with smaller communities.

Okie


User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4081 times:

The devastation is just overwhelming. I left OKC three days ago, wish I was there right now.

User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

I'm very worried about some of these school children that were still at school being sheltered in place until the storm passed. I've been watching the local coverage on KFOR and they are reporting that one school (Plaza Towers Elementary School) was pretty much destroyed. One of the rescue personnel on the scene has told a news reporter that there were at least 75 children & teachers in the hallway (which was the safe place for them to be) but the hallway is just gone and they are trying to search for all these children underneath this pile of rubble. So far, they've only found one student and one teacher who have both survived. They're still looking for the rest of the children and no deaths have been reported, yet.

The other scenes of the destruction (both from the air and on the ground) are simply unbelievable. Oklahoma City just can't catch a break this week.

I hope and pray that the death toll isn't too great, but it sure looks bad right now.

LoneStarMike

[Edited 2013-05-20 15:00:47]

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 6):
An F5 is 300+ mph. Just a little over the top to build structures to that kind of rotating wind load.

What would it take ? I don't know much about tornadoes as they're unheard of here (well, statistically they happen, but nothing that makes the news), but I've read that above ground shelters are made of cinder blocks, rebar, and cement. My home is made with those from basement to (flat) roof. I can see windows being shattered and maybe even the roof damaged but I don't see the home being leveled.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinecainanuk From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

Looks like a school has been leveled according to CNN. Apparently 45 children unaccounted for. They were sheltering in an internal hallway, which was deemed to be their "safe-place"... There is no such thing as a safe place from an F5. Regardless of your religious persuasion, pray to whoever you believe in. They need all the help they can get.


Cainan Cornelius
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3973 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
What would it take ? I don't know much about tornadoes as they're unheard of here (well, statistically they happen, but nothing that makes the news), but I've read that above ground shelters are made of cinder blocks, rebar, and cement. My home is made with those from basement to (flat) roof. I can see windows being shattered and maybe even the roof damaged but I don't see the home being leveled.

The EF-5 tornado at Jerrel Texas pulled every single thing off the foundation of homes, including pulling parts of some of the foundations up. It removed every plumbing fixture, breaking all the pipes off at the slab.

The tornado pulled asphalt off the roadway.

Homes are built across the Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas region (and I presume the other tornado states) with tornado rooms - a box surrounded by 3/8 thick steel and poured rebar concrete. (Normally a interior closet with an air seal door with at least one vertical and two horizontal 3/4 inch steel locking bolts - full width like a bank vault.

Those are not guaranteed for an EF-5.

The rooms you describe are normally rated for EF-3 or low EF-4. They have to be interior rooms so that the exterior of the house will provide some deceleration of debris.

Cinderblocks for commercial buildings are very common, with rebar and poured concrete between the blocks, and there are many destroyed down to the slab in this part of the country every year.

During an EF-4 or 5 tornado - exterior walls of almost any type will not survive because of impact damage from debris being thrown into the walls at 250-300 mph.

Even if your exterior walls survived - it is likely the roof would be lifted off, even a concrete slab roof can be lifted by tornados of that intensity. Any interior walls which are not built to the same standard as the exterior walls will be destroyed/ removed by such a storm. You might have the exterior walls survive - but the cost of rebuilding the interior would likely be higher than a complete teardown and rebuild.


User currently offline777222LR From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Meteorologists are reporting that this is the most destructive Tornado in this history of the world. This is 3 times the destruction of the May 3, 1999 tornado that went through the same area. This is terrible. The damage is terrible. The thing about this one is it came up SO fast. I literally just pulled my car into an underground parking garage because it looked like rain, got back to my office, and sirens went off. I was North of it. Had I been a few miles south, I might not be here. Terrible day for my fellow Oklahomans.

User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3890 times:

Quoting cainanuk (Reply 10):
Apparently 45 children unaccounted for

What they are saying, not saying seems to shift but the last I caught on a local channel was there were dozens of fatalities at the school. Very very sad.

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 12):
This is 3 times the destruction of the May 3, 1999 tornado that went through the same area. This is terrible

I do not know a figure this early but will say property wise it could be as that area was pretty densely populated.

I can still hear many emergency vehicles moving about south of me so I can assume they are rescuing a large quantity of injured. The other major issue is that there is always a lot of nails/screws that end up on the roadways from the tornado destroying buildings which incapacitates emergency equipment when they get flat tires.

They have diverted the I-35 traffic to a 4 lane road that is my normal access and it is jammed up completely. It has trouble with normal traffic much less adding the interstate traffic as well.

Not a good day

Okie


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

MSNBC just reported that the Oklahoma Medical Examiner has confirmed 37 dead. Also, at the elementary school the search and rescue effort has turned into a search and recovery effort and it is believed that about 2 dozen children from grades K-3 have been killed. I'm don't think any of the children from the elementary school are included in the 37 already confirmed dead.

A very sad day for Oklahoma.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

As of about 8 PM, 37 dead. Probably 100's missing, especially at schools. A path of destruction that is far worse than the 1999 near OKC. Some are suggesting an 'F-6' or well beyond the top of the scale F-5, possibly the most powerful recorded tornado outbreak in recorded history. The town of Moore pretty much wiped out.

For the schools, the problem would be sending children to homes that don't have proper shelter or would have been in the path of the worst of the storm. Truly a devils choice.

Let us pray for a low loss of life.


User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2764 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

I was chasing the cell that hit Moore.

From this image, I was 1.5 miles to the SE of it paralleling the storm.

The tornado in this picture was approx 2 miles from Moore here, by the time we had gotten to Moore, it was huge. I could hear and feel the tornado from a mile away at that point. Have never seen one that large and to sit back and watch it mow through the city was truly heartbreaking.




No info
User currently offlineTankereng From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

Was working at Tinker when the storm started. Coworkers and I streamed the local news, and watched the tornado form and watched its trail of devastation. Power was knocked out in the building so we switched to streaming on my iPhone. The twister dissipated near Lake Stanley Draper, which is about 7 miles south of Tinker.

Command center was set up at the Warren Movie Theatre, which was hit by the tornado. A 7 Eleven just north of the theatre was leveled, and 4 people lost their lives. I was just down there at the Warren on Saturday. Seeing the area leveled is surreal.

One of my coworker's house was basically in the path of the tornado, his wife and little girl were in the house. I don't know if the house was directly hit or if the tornado passed to the north or south, but I am praying for him and his family and for all those affected.


User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2911 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...0/oklahoma-tornado-moore-live-blog

this blog provides live updates...



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Current estimates just broadcast live at 2025 CDT (0125 UTC) is

The Oklahoma State Medical Examiner has confirmed 51 dead.

That number supposedly includes 7 students at one elementary school.

The death toll is almost certain to rise as rescuers go through the wreckage tonight and tomorrow.

[Edited 2013-05-20 18:30:42]

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
What would it take ?

Here are some notes on the Jerrel destruction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Ce...ornado_outbreak#F5_Jarrell_tornado

This tornado in Moore OK is significantly more destructive - both because of the tornado size, and the higher structure buildup and population in the area hit.


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

One of the news channels (CNN or Fox, was switching between them so don't know which one) had a video shot from the air of the storm starting from early formation as the funnel was just coming out of the cloud and it was horrifying to watch how this slender little funnel grew into a huge beast - it just kept getting larger and larger as it moved across the ground. The scenes of devastation are hard to believe - a terrible tragedy for the folks in its path. Praying that many of the missing have survived.

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

This was just an incredible storm. It initiated as 3 separate supercells, but the southernmost cell became the dominant cell tonight. Rotation with it was pretty disorganized at first and then it just wrapped up over Newcastle before crossing the Canadian River. Moving through SW OKC into Moore just brought memories of what's take a similar path. The one getting the most publicity is the May 3rd 1999 F5, but the May 8th 2003 F4 and the May 24th 2011 EF4 all took similar paths. Just incredible and you have to feel for the folks of Moore, South OKC and other impacted South Metro communities.

Quoting lewis (Reply 5):
I never understood why communities that are continuously hit by tornadoes do not build with stronger materials such as stone or cement. It may be more expensive but it lasts longer and does not require building again and again and again in such cases.

Many new construction homes have underground shelters or safe rooms. However, it is hard to really handle what looks like will be an EF5 that was moving only at 10 mph at points and exposing people to 200+ mph winds for over a minute.

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 12):
Meteorologists are reporting that this is the most destructive Tornado in this history of the world. This is 3 times the destruction of the May 3, 1999 tornado that went through the same area. This is terrible. The damage is terrible. The thing about this one is it came up SO fast. I literally just pulled my car into an underground parking garage because it looked like rain, got back to my office, and sirens went off. I was North of it. Had I been a few miles south, I might not be here. Terrible day for my fellow Oklahomans.

We'll have to see. May 3rd was around $1 billion in damages. This one had a good lead time on it still, people just need to pay attention on higher risk days. However, there are some things you can just not prepare for.

Some clips from today including a few pics I took...

Zoomed in image. This is using GRLevel2AE...
http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/may13/20-8.png

Moving through eastern parts of Moore still rotating violently. At this position debris was raining down everywhere, which you can kinda see the discoloration to the road. The debris was insulation, siding, sheet metal, wood, and organic materials.

http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/may20th/may20-1.jpg

This is the tornado as it starts to spin down some. It is still very violent here moving through far eastern Moore and SE OKC.

http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/may20th/may20-2.jpg


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3628 times:

Just horrible this storm was. 51 confirmed dead. Reports are that 20 are children but that is unconfirmed. Total numbers of those lost are expected to rise. Wishing the best too everyone in Oklahoma.

Down here in Florida people always ask if hurricanes are scary and how it must be something to live in a place where hurricanes hit often. But really hurricanes are not that bad when you have storms like the one today. We get days of advance notice. These people had less than an hour and even then there is no idea where it would actually hit. Just horrible news and pictures coming from there.

To those Anet members in the area, thanks for the updates, hope all you guys are doing alright.

[Edited 2013-05-20 21:13:38]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offline777222LR From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

I think all of us OKC area a.netters are accounted for...... Still alive and kickin'.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 5):
I never understood why communities that are continuously hit by tornadoes do not build with stronger materials such as stone or cement. It may be more expensive but it lasts longer and does not require building again and again and again in such cases.

There isn't much short of a full blown bunker that will stand up to a tornado like that.

Many places are built out of brick or stone, many houses have basements, and other public places have a tornado shelter or at least a strongly built room for people to take shelter.

Living in the midwest means playing Russian roulette with the weather, it's just how it is. It's not like other places aren't vulnerable to natural disasters too. (The people who settled St. Louis sure could pick em though)



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

I have family in Topeka and Kansas City. Not close to these storms, but I understand what you all are going through.

Listening to the reports today, I am wondering where else in the world are there storms like this? There probably would not be this level of damage, but are there any other places in the world that have 2 mile wide tornadoes? Or any tornadoes at all? We had an F-0 two years ago here in STS. Took the roof off a family owned lumber store. Oregon gets F-0 to F-2 from time to time.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinecactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2442 posts, RR: 31
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

I live in Bentonville Arkansas about 200 miles or so from OKC... that storm came through here around 7pm... we didn't get any tornadoes touch down where I am (not sure if we got any) Right before the storm came through my cell started blowing up with alerts from the weather channel and the Benton County alert system and then seconds later the tornado sirens went off. It was by far the nastiest storm I've ever seen... winds were toppling umbrellas and splitting big trees at the Lowe's across the street. Hail and rain so hard couldn't even see out the windows.

My heart goes out to all those in OKC... that's such a tragic loss of life...  
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
Homes are built across the Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas region (and I presume the other tornado states) with tornado rooms - a box surrounded by 3/8 thick steel and poured rebar concrete. (Normally a interior closet with an air seal door with at least one vertical and two horizontal 3/4 inch steel locking bolts - full width like a bank vault.

Something I've seen popping up more and more around here are under garage floor tornado shelters. I live in a new neighborhood and the house at the end of our street was just finished and people moved in last week. I noticed the other day that they were already getting one of those shelters dug in.. wonder if it's done yet.



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3768 times:



Quoting 777222LR (Reply 12):
Meteorologists are reporting that this is the most destructive Tornado in this history of the world.

They might want to check with history on that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_records

[Edited 2013-05-20 21:34:14]

User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

One of the reasons "tornado alley" in the U.S. has such strong storms is the geography. Much of the land is perfectly flat and provides for little interference with wind patterns. Then we get a mixture of warm humid air coming in from the Gulf of Mexico combining with low pressure areas. Just add the jetstream to this mix and you'll have rotating winds. Depending on how high the cloud tops are and the strength of the jetstream determines how strong a tornado will be. It's this unique combination that results in tornadoes being most common in the central U.S.

This morning lots of weather forecasters thought today was going to be a rough one in tornado alley today. The storm that created this horrific tornado just sort of popped up from nowhere. A major line of thunderstorm activity had gone through the area earlier that afternoon without damage.

Holding onto hope for people in the stricken area.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

CNN is now confirming the fatalities up to 91. Oklahoma Medical Examineer thinks it will go up more. Terrible news.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6138 posts, RR: 30
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3678 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
I am wondering where else in the world are there storms like this? There probably would not be this level of damage, but are there any other places in the world that have 2 mile wide tornadoes?

I know that they have them in Australia and are pretty intense. They have also have them in Argentina. One destroyed 2 steel warehouse in our ranch a few years ago here in Northeastern Mexico. If you look, you can still find pieces of steel. They are not that rare. It´s just that in the US they tend to strike near populated areas and receive much more coverage, naturally.



MGGS
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

I don't get it. I spent 3 weeks in Oklahoma City last year. I found it to be dusty, windy, and generally quite boring (you can only go to bricktown so many times). That said, I get that if you were born there, you probably have a different view of things, and home is home, so I'm not trying to blast anyone for that. On top of that, I get that there are other factors that keep people there: family, friends, jobs, low cost of living, a good economy, whatever.

But then you have to deal with this?! And it's not like this only happens once every 50 years, there's been 4 or 5 significant tornadoes in the last decade or so JUST in this one suburb! Why does anyone stay there?! How could anything be worth the very real risk of having your entire town obliterated in such a terrifying way?? This time it's Moore, next year it's just as easily Bethany or Yukon or… pick one! The city I spent weeks of my life in could just be gone one day!

I love thunderstorms. I look forward to them in the summer, they're fun to watch and they're great background noise when you're trying to go to sleep. When I was in Oklahoma, every single one scared me so much I couldn't even stay in bed anymore, especially if it was late at night. I had to get up and pace around the apartment, always looking out the window, just waiting for those awful air-raid sirens to go off. Maybe I'm just some pussy east-coaster, but I seriously just don't get it. Colorado isn't that far away, Indiana's cheap… can someone explain their viewpoint to me?



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
Colorado isn't that far away, Indiana's cheap%u2026 can someone explain their viewpoint to me?

Colorado weather isn't so great either, and tornadoes are an issue all over the midwest. Pretty much everywhere from Texas to Nebraska to Arkansas is going to get hit at some point.

Everybody in Florida has a hurricane story, everybody in California has an earthquake story, and everybody in the midwest has a tornado story.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

For a lot of people, home is where you hang your hat. If course others as you pointed out, stay because their families are there and a lot of people just want to stay in the same area their families live in.

Oklahoma City also has quite a number of offices/locations of the Federal Aviation Administration. On the map it looks like one of their buildings was very close to the tornado path.

Plus it's the state capital with offices connected with that function. The oil industry is also very large in the area.

So there are many reasons why people may want to stay in the area.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2713 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

And the left already trying to capitalize on the tragedy. Unbelievable....


http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/20/de...nadoes-hit-oklahoma/#ixzz2TsyeamLC

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...anges-role-in-deadly-okla-twister/



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):
And the left already trying to capitalize on the tragedy. Unbelievable

The Whitehouse has flown in the MSDNC propaganda anchors in the middle of the night and are broadcasting live from the area.

I just checked in on their commentary and you are correct. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Okie


User currently offline777222LR From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 28):
They might want to check with history on that...

What you listed is not a single event, it's an outbreak of many tornados. This was a single event, single, powerful EF4 or EF5 tornado. Also, even the one with the 695 dead, is not what we are talking about here. The amount of damage and the power of this storm is much more than that previous tornado. The amount of property destroyed is more. This storm is just 'more' of everything.

That said, death toll reaches 91 as of this morning.

Edit: That death toll has not yet been confirmed by medical examiner. Local news station reporting that number this morning. Though, I'm pretty sure that toll will be exceeded.

[Edited 2013-05-21 05:29:16]

[Edited 2013-05-21 05:31:44]

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3450 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
Why does anyone stay there?!

Economics and family are big reasons.

Many people simply cannot afford to leave their well paying jobs and move. Many people won't abandon their extended family.

Unfortunately, the economics of the insurance industry can force the owner of a destroyed home rebuild on the same property. Many people still owe money on that home, and cannot sell the newly rebuilt home for enough to pay off the mortage and move flat broke to start over.

Flood insurance can work the same way, though the federal government is making changes to rebuild the new home outside the flood zone.

Quoting cactus739 (Reply 27):
Something I've seen popping up more and more around here are under garage floor tornado shelters.

Haven't seen those. Builders in the Dallas area have an aversion to any type basement structure.

The key is that for new builds - there are tornado shelter options - but most people don't spend the $15-25 thousand extra for that protection.

There are also options available for that price range for post build shelters buried in the back yards.


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 37):

Oh, I see property damage is more important than lives?

Quote:
The deadliest tornado in world history was the Daulatpur-Salturia Tornado in Bangladesh on April 26, 1989, which killed approximately 1,300 people.[3] Bangladesh has had at least 19 tornadoes in its history kill more than 100 people, almost half of the total for the rest of the world.
Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):

That took about 5 minutes. What a bunch of clowns.

[Edited 2013-05-21 05:44:53]

User currently offlineAviRaider From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 38):
Haven't seen those. Builders in the Dallas area have an aversion to any type basement structure.

Isn't that the truth! You look at any older home and most have some type of storm shelter or a basement. But every new build home I've seen never has a basement, and occassionaly you might see a shelter room. I guess they are keeping it up to the homeowner. But, I've seen new build homes outside of the metroplex that has storm shelters. So what is it about the suburban builders? I imagine costs versus risks.


User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1217 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

According to Finnish news website the dead were miscount by accident, they say the real number of bodies found is 24 according to some official investigating this. Of course then there are probably many still missing...

The amount of destruction these natural events can cause is just amazing.

[Edited 2013-05-21 06:37:21]


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3868 posts, RR: 14
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
And it's not like this only happens once every 50 years, there's been 4 or 5 significant tornadoes in the last decade or so JUST in this one suburb! Why does anyone stay there?! How could anything be worth the very real risk of having your entire town obliterated in such a terrifying way??
Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
aybe I'm just some pussy east-coaster, but I seriously just don't get it

I hate to bring back bad memories, but when Sandy struck, the East Coast/Northeast was actually overdue for a hurricane of that size and force.

There are also other areas of this country which are statistically overdue for a major natural disaster.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 38):
Builders in the Dallas area have an aversion to any type basement structure.
Quoting AviRaider (Reply 40):
You look at any older home and most have some type of storm shelter or a basement. But every new build home I've seen never has a basement, and occassionaly you might see a shelter room

Not in Dallas--even older buildings don't have a basement structure. The reason relates to the type of soil underlying the Metroplex--Dallas sits on a layer of clay, making basement and cellar construction extremely cost prohibitive. It's not a question of merely trying to be cheap--the cost is significant enough to deter even the wealthiest of Dallas residents from building underground structures.


User currently offlinevenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Used to live in Moore until 2002, my house that I sold is now gone which I rode out the May 3rd 1999 F5. Working out at KOKC I was forced to find shelter 3 different times. This tornado got ugly fast as soon as it crossed I44 at 149th street and it was at the height of rush hour so we had people on the roads and kids just letting out of school. May 3rd we had warning because it was on the ground so long to get out the way, this one formed so quick near the metro and built up so much energy real quick so if you were not underground you were going to get hurt. We have the unfortunate location of being right on the front lines of a cold front from the Rockies and a warm humid air from the Gulf of Mexico. Dallas metro area also got slammed last week.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5359 posts, RR: 14
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3363 times:

Wow, just really unbelievable...but, it's happened. Let's give the folks time to grieve and come to terms with what has happened (yes, I'm looking at you media and "how do you feel" questions).

Many of us are going to decide we're going to donate something to help these folks. May I suggest that people don't send your old clothes, socks, shoes or that can of tomato sauce that's been sitting in the back of the cupboard. While they will need that kind of stuff, a mass of property donations will quickly overwhelm any relief organization trying to help these folks.

Donate money. Donate to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief. Or, wait until a verified, bona fide fund is set up to help these folks. Heck, find out where the local churches are and donate directly to them and earmark the money for relief. You know that the churches will wade hip deep into this mess.

Next: I'm making an appeal to that person that won the $600,000,000 Power Ball jackpot. See to your needs. See to your family's needs. See to your friends' and neighbors' needs, if that's your thing. See to you community's needs, if you are so inclined. But, I ask you, look to Moore, OK and see if you can help.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 38):
Unfortunately, the economics of the insurance industry can force the owner of a destroyed home rebuild on the same property. Many people still owe money on that home, and cannot sell the newly rebuilt home for enough to pay off the mortgage and move flat broke to start over.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Housing prices did not fall here although they have been stagnated with little appreciation for the last 4-5 years.

There are too many scenarios to mention but from my experience after the May 3rd
.
Many will settle with the insurance company, pay off the mortgage and buy an existing home and sell the lot vs waiting for the rebuild time living in an apartment or rental property.

There were a few with paid off mortgages that dropped their insurance and basically had to start over.

There were a few that were "living on the edge" that had second and third mortgages over the value of their home and used the insurance settlement to pay off their mortgages and had to start over.

There was one insurance company which was famous in the Katrina Hurricane for non settlement that had not settled with their clients 10 years after the tornado.

In my area I would say only a third of the original property owners moved back to the neighborhood, most just bought existing properties and moved on, what 13 years later the last couple of the lots are being built.

I was just a shade over 2 years to get this home rebuilt, settling with the insurance company, clearing the lot, deciding course of action to take, pick out a new house plan and find a builder that could work you into the schedule because of the rebuild demand.





Okie


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

I guess I have a difficult time understanding why folks living in tornado-prone areas don't build homes with an underground shelter or if moving into an exsisting home, don't install an underground shelter in the back yard. Digging a, say, 8X8X8-foot hole ain't going to break your pocketbook, and if it IS going to a burden, finance the damn thing with a home loan. A lot, lot cheaper in the long run comparing to what these unfortunate souls are having to deal with now.

When I designed our new home a priority was an underground shelter in the corner of the garage as some folks have mentioned in this topic. It's not really complex thinking, just common sense IMHO. That there wouldn't be shelters in schools, for instance, also defies logic unless soils or such would absolutely prohibit said construction.. best regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7220 posts, RR: 17
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Its very odd that for the majority of its life, it followed the path of the 1999 storm which set many records. Also that 1999 storm set the standard for the "tornado emergency" text usage, which was used again the other day this time. Saved lives for sure, but still sad that 91+ deaths occurred.

straying off topic, I believe if Joplin had a tornado emergency issued for them, maybe the residents would've taken heed sooner.....



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 41):
they say the real number of bodies found is 24 according to some official investigating this

this appears to be the current official number. I hope it does not climb any higher.




All you folks out there in North East Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Missouri keep an eye on the weather today. There is a chance for more severe storms with hail, strong winds, and possibly more tornadoes

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/Jef...Masters/comment.html?entrynum=2412



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 46):
I guess I have a difficult time understanding why folks living in tornado-prone areas don't build homes with an underground shelter or if moving into an exsisting home, don't install an underground shelter in the back yard. Digging a, say, 8X8X8-foot hole ain't going to break your pocketbook, and if it IS going to a burden, finance the damn thing with a home loan. A lot, lot cheaper in the long run comparing to what these unfortunate souls are having to deal with now.

Every year we seem to have grants brought out for people to get shelters involved. There is one that was awarded to Cleveland County well over a year ago now (maybe 2), but is being held up on the money actually being released. So you'll see people actually wait for the grant money to install because it can't be received once the shelter is in.

Most shelters are going to run $1500 to $3000, maybe upwards of $12k, depending on what you get. Underground is going to be lower cost in most cases, higher end is going to be the safe rooms that are mostly retrofits.

With that all said, we'll probably see a massive influx of grant money again for the impacted cities and countries that hopefully will be managed well and dispersed quickly.


User currently onlineflyingthe757 From UK - England, joined Mar 2013, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3220 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

http://news.sky.com/story/1093711/to...ivor-finds-dog-during-tv-interview

What a story. A simple interview with an old lady who has lost her home, and she thinks, her dog....

Very sweet video in the midst of all that destruction.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):
And the left already trying to capitalize on the tragedy. Unbelievable....

More specifically, they're completely wrong. Meteorology is apparently not Bill Nye's forte.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 46):
I guess I have a difficult time understanding why folks living in tornado-prone areas don't build homes with an underground shelter or if moving into an exsisting home, don't install an underground shelter in the back yard. Digging a, say, 8X8X8-foot hole ain't going to break your pocketbook, and if it IS going to a burden, finance the damn thing with a home loan.

You don't need an underground shelter. A hardened interior room will do okay.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 48):
All you folks out there in North East Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Missouri keep an eye on the weather today. There is a chance for more severe storms with hail, strong winds, and possibly more tornadoes

You could say that every other day this time of year.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
You could say that every other day this time of year.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
Meteorology is apparently not Bill Nye's forte.

You could say the same about yourself here.


This region has a high susceptibility to these storms this time of year, but it is not an every day occurrence.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
ore specifically, they're completely wrong

And for the upmteenth time trust nothing from a right wing third rate news site opinionating.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19415 posts, RR: 58
Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
Why does anyone stay there?!

Where are you going? The mountains with the landslides? The East Coast with the hurricanes? The West Coast with earthquakes? The central North with mega-blizzards? Hawaii with volcanoes and tsunamis?

No place is safe.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

What we also must remember for the survivors is that they will need support for a long time after the initial cleanup. First they must find someplace to stay since their homes are now inhabitable. Most no longer have transportation as their autos/trucks were totaled. Then they have to deal with their insurance companies who will try to shortchange them at every turn. Then they will have to work on getting their homes rebuilt. This can take anywhere from one to two years to complete. I really feel for them. Even though insurance will take care of their possessions, there will still be a injury to the psyche due to this storm.

And let's not forget the people who no longer have jobs because the buildings their employment was located in were blown away.

Five years after Hurricane Ike on the Texas Gulf Coast their are still lawsuits being settled between homeowners and their insurance companies where the homeowners are trying to get their insurance companies to pay for the full amount of damages rather than a portion that the company sees fit.

I urge everyone to donate what you can for the victims of this disaster.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 42):
the cost is significant enough to deter even the wealthiest of Dallas residents from building underground structures.

Almost every new build 'McMansion' in Highland Park, University Park and north Dallas south of Forest Lane between Hillcrest and Marsh in the past 20 years has had an extensive basement.

The foot print requirements in University and Highland Park often require the garage be located under the house. Those turntables they install are really neat.

The mass builders won't touch a basement, nor will they build a pier and beam foundation immune to the foundation trouble so common in this region.

But there are plenty of small builders who will install a partial or full basement, and an alternate pier and beam foundation. All it takes is dollars. A pier and beam foundation runs about $30,000 extra for a 3,000 square foot house. A basement runs about $20,000 per 200 sq ft.

Of course these options are not available to most of us, because these builders almost all work on $1 million or higher homes.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
You don't need an underground shelter. A hardened interior room will do okay.

As noted above - underground shelters can be installed in existing homes for $5-12 thousand. Tornado rooms in a new build house can easily add $20-25 thousand to the home cost. Tornado hardened rooms retro built into existing homes start near $30,000. Often the home interior has to be redesigned to allow a hardened interior room.

My home has an interior bathroom designed to be able to be hardened. It is the only space in the 2006 build home which can meet hardened room specifications.

The people who built the home didn't spec a hardened room. I've looked into the cost. It will be a minimum of $22,000 - that was the average of five bids in 2009.

No, we didn't go for that costs.


User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
I don't get it. I spent 3 weeks in Oklahoma City last year. I found it to be dusty, windy, and generally quite boring (you can only go to bricktown so many times). That said, I get that if you were born there, you probably have a different view of things, and home is home, so I'm not trying to blast anyone for that. On top of that, I get that there are other factors that keep people there: family, friends, jobs, low cost of living, a good economy, whatever.

But then you have to deal with this?! And it's not like this only happens once every 50 years, there's been 4 or 5 significant tornadoes in the last decade or so JUST in this one suburb! Why does anyone stay there?! How could anything be worth the very real risk of having your entire town obliterated in such a terrifying way?? This time it's Moore, next year it's just as easily Bethany or Yukon or… pick one! The city I spent weeks of my life in could just be gone one day!

I love thunderstorms. I look forward to them in the summer, they're fun to watch and they're great background noise when you're trying to go to sleep. When I was in Oklahoma, every single one scared me so much I couldn't even stay in bed anymore, especially if it was late at night. I had to get up and pace around the apartment, always looking out the window, just waiting for those awful air-raid sirens to go off. Maybe I'm just some pussy east-coaster, but I seriously just don't get it. Colorado isn't that far away, Indiana's cheap… can someone explain their viewpoint to me?

This is why I have never understood Oklahoma's politics. Oklahoma politicians are some the most hypocritical rabidly anti-federal government people the country. Due to their state's infamously extreme weather, if it wasn't for federal resources like FEMA no one would live there. Who wants to rebuild their house evey 10 years and live in constant fear of losing everything? The OK senators royally pissed off most east-coasters with their opposition to hurricane Sandy relief but they gladly suck at their federal teat for their constant Tornado relief.

That aside, my best wishes to the people of Moore and RIP to all the victims...


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 57, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 1):
About 4 miles south of me.

Glad to see you are safe - I was worried about you.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
Homes are built across the Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas region (and I presume the other tornado states) with tornado rooms - a box surrounded by 3/8 thick steel and poured rebar concrete. (Normally a interior closet with an air seal door with at least one vertical and two horizontal 3/4 inch steel locking bolts - full width like a bank vault.

Those are not guaranteed for an EF-5.

I went to the home show a few months back and tornado shelters were on display by multiple companies. The underground shelters for existing homes and safe rooms for new builds.

IIRC the initial research on safe rooms was done at Texas Tech and their work has undoubtably saved lives.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 22):
Many new construction homes have underground shelters or safe rooms.

We have a friend who built in the country outside of Coffeyville KS and her safe room is inside the house, off the living rook and has a full, practical setup, including a cot for overnight stays.

We are talking about building a smaller home, but a safe room would be in the plans. There may be no guarantees, but it's cheap insurance when you look at the alternatives.


User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2576 posts, RR: 7
Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 56):

Bingo.

Lets hope those fine, upstanding Senators from the fine state of Oklahoma stick to their fiscal values and actively campaign against "gummint" money going to help out their constituents.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...-relief_n_3309234.html?ir=Politics


User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3868 posts, RR: 14
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
You could say that every other day this time of year.
Quoting casinterest (Reply 52):
This region has a high susceptibility to these storms this time of year, but it is not an every day occurrence.

Yeah, but I see what BMI is saying--weather in the region can change rapidly this time of year, and I can remember many days that would start off nice and sunny but would end with intense thunderstorms and tornado warnings.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting johnboy (Reply 58):
Lets hope those fine, upstanding Senators from the fine state of Oklahoma stick to their fiscal values and actively campaign against "gummint" money going to help out their constituents

They surely will if there is another $685M for the park service and $500M for other frivolous activities, otherwise I would suspect they will ask for offsets somewhere else in the budget.
Same thing you do when you have a personal financial hit, cut back here and there to pay for emergency issues if you do not have an emergency fund.

Okie


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 59):
Yeah, but I see what BMI is saying--weather in the region can change rapidly this time of year, and I can remember many days that would start off nice and sunny but would end with intense thunderstorms and tornado warnings.

This is how most Thunderstorms are. However the NWS usually has a good idea of which days this will happen and in which region. It is nitpicking a bit, but saying everyday is a bit of a stretch.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21528 posts, RR: 55
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 56):
The OK senators royally pissed off most east-coasters with their opposition to hurricane Sandy relief but they gladly suck at their federal teat for their constant Tornado relief.

To be fair, the representative whose district includes the damaged areas did not vote against the Sandy relief package - in fact he spoke out in favor of it. So you can't really use that argument in this case.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 62):
To be fair, the representative whose district includes the damaged areas did not vote against the Sandy relief package - in fact he spoke out in favor of it. So you can't really use that argument in this case.

Maybe he understands that we are one nation and we need to stand together. One of the most powerful benefits of being one nation is how strong an impact our support can be for those in need.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
You don't need an underground shelter. A hardened interior room will do okay.

Depends. On the news this evening they've mentioned that in the hardest hit areas with the EF-5 damage, they could not locate any surviving safe rooms. If we talk EF-2 or lower it would probably be fine, but we are see below ground is best when you start getting into the violent/intense categories.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 55):
As noted above - underground shelters can be installed in existing homes for $5-12 thousand. Tornado rooms in a new build house can easily add $20-25 thousand to the home cost. Tornado hardened rooms retro built into existing homes start near $30,000. Often the home interior has to be redesigned to allow a hardened interior room.

Damn your prices are insane there. Typical underground/garage floor shelter is more so around $2000-2500 here. Safe rooms are about $1000-1500 more than that for a decent sized room.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 56):
This is why I have never understood Oklahoma's politics. Oklahoma politicians are some the most hypocritical rabidly anti-federal government people the country. Due to their state's infamously extreme weather, if it wasn't for federal resources like FEMA no one would live there. Who wants to rebuild their house evey 10 years and live in constant fear of losing everything? The OK senators royally pissed off most east-coasters with their opposition to hurricane Sandy relief but they gladly suck at their federal teat for their constant Tornado relief.

Hate to talk politics about this already, but I can appreciate wanting to stop government waste...but the fight against Sandy relief was disappointing. Of course I didn't vote for either of our senators.  
Quoting casinterest (Reply 61):
This is how most Thunderstorms are. However the NWS usually has a good idea of which days this will happen and in which region. It is nitpicking a bit, but saying everyday is a bit of a stretch.

This was not a surprise day. Forecast models were nailing this about a week out that we were going to have a 3-4 day outbreak of severe weather and that's what happened. Saturday was mainly a hail and wind day. Sunday we had a few tornadoes including an EF-4 in the Southeast OKC metro area as well as an EF-2 on the North side. Monday of course brought the conclusion with yet another major tornado in the metro area and this time more so through the middle of it.

Quoting Mir (Reply 62):
To be fair, the representative whose district includes the damaged areas did not vote against the Sandy relief package - in fact he spoke out in favor of it. So you can't really use that argument in this case.

Tom Cole is a pretty stand up guy. I don't agree with everything he says when he sticks to the party position, but his family is from Moore and deeply exposed to these situations.


User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2576 posts, RR: 7
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 60):
They surely will if there is another $685M for the park service and $500M for other frivolous activities, otherwise I would suspect they will ask for offsets somewhere else in the budget.
Same thing you do when you have a personal financial hit, cut back here and there to pay for emergency issues if you do not have an emergency fund.

Then I expect nothing less than a full filibuster of efforts to give emergency funds to those affected by the tornadoes by Senators Coburn and Inhofe, until a substantive debate to cut away frivolous budgetary items is thoroughly examined by House leaders.

At least a "no" vote by both of them to appropriate funds like their courageous vote against victims of Hurricane Sandy.


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):

I think you are incorrcet here, friend. Just about anything above ground level is subject to tornadic forces whereas stuff below ground level is not. I have heard reports (although I cannot substantiate specifically at this time) of above-ground "safe blocks" being dispersed via violent tornado winds. A below ground safe place is unquestionably the best way to go. It also eliminates the possibility of penetration by high speed projectiles into the structure. Ever seen photos of a hay straw going through a pressure-treated telephone pole?

Rfields5421 (Rep55); Our underground shelter was no where near $30M additional when building our house (I'd have to look at 7-year old papers to find exact expendage), but even if it were 20 to 30 grand it's better insurance than buying a shiney four wheeled shitbox at the same price that won't give yourself or loved ones any real security in case of a tragic disaster. Ahhh...what cost priorities? regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting johnboy (Reply 65):
Then I expect nothing less than a full filibuster of efforts to give emergency funds to those affected by the tornadoes by Senators Coburn and Inhofe, until a substantive debate to cut away frivolous budgetary items is thoroughly examined by House leaders

You are behind the curve, Coburn has ask for offsets of lower priority projects for any aid of which the Federal Government might offer as practiced in previous disasters.

So far FEMA has come up with an offering of $0.00 making your point mute.

Okie


User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 53):
Where are you going? The mountains with the landslides? The East Coast with the hurricanes? The West Coast with earthquakes? The central North with mega-blizzards? Hawaii with volcanoes and tsunamis?

How about Japan then?  In descending order of danger: Earthquakes, tsunamis, active volcanoes, typhoons, landslides, tornadoes, poison "yellow sand" from China, wayward North Korean missiles, and Godzilla!!!



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 67):
You are behind the curve, Coburn has ask for offsets of lower priority projects for any aid of which the Federal Government might offer as practiced in previous disasters.

Coburn and Inhofe have a delicate dance here. They are out in front of any vote saying they need it, and they will request it. However they completely burned New York and New Jersey on their votes, which in terms of cost was much higher. a 1 billion or so aid package is not nearly as difficult to find offsets for as a 60 billion dollar package.

You are correct that FEMA should have no issue funding it on it's own without congressional approval as FEMA currently has 11.6 BIllion in 2013 Fiscal year funds, but it is interesting how in Inhofe's own words "Tornado Aid is totally different than Hurricane Sandy aid:". However remember, whatever aid goes here, will deplete Federal fund aid for any late year Hurricane or Blizzard, or any other Natural Disaster



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

One group of true heroes were some of the teachers in the schools that were hit that covered their child students, probably helping to save their lives and reduce injuries.

The fight for funding by some conservatives screaming 'offsets' is really foolish. They can offset some unnecessary military spending, or reducing some tax breaks of big corps or rich people to cover the costs of this and other disasters.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 67):
You are behind the curve, Coburn has ask for offsets of lower priority projects for any aid of which the Federal Government might offer as practiced in previous disasters.

When Coburn was in the House he made a famous comment after (IIRC) the '99 tornado that did so much damage: Basically he said that Federal funds weren't needed. It's his particular way of thinking, which is in a way surprising for a physician. But I believe that being a politician has been more important to him than being a physician.

Inhofe is one odd bird in the Senate. Not the brightest in the Senate and doesn't have that good a speech writer. He'll end up going with what he's told to do.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 66):
I think you are incorrcet here, friend. Just about anything above ground level is subject to tornadic forces whereas stuff below ground level is not. I have heard reports (although I cannot substantiate specifically at this time) of above-ground "safe blocks" being dispersed via violent tornado winds. A below ground safe place is unquestionably the best way to go.

I think there is just too much debris right now to decide how well Safe Rooms (not safe blocks) have made it through this storm. The tornado slowed down to 10 mph at times and when you do that, you are talking EF-4 and EF-5 winds over an area for up to 2 minutes. That is a huge assault that not even Texas Tech's test facility probably thought of.

Anyway, here is the damage path after today's survey's by NWS Norman - expect things to still be tweaked as they are still making their way through heavily damaged areas.



User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 71):
When Coburn was in the House he made a famous comment after (IIRC) the '99 tornado that did so much damage: Basically he said that Federal funds weren't needed. It's his particular way of thinking, which is in a way surprising for a physician

Pretty sore subject for me on the Federal Funds on the May 3 tornado.
OKC got Federal Relief Funds for debris removal.
Trust me there was plenty of it. There were 5 vehicles piled up 3 high in what was the front yard along with debris from everywhere. The few items that were found were a 100 yards away and the debris here was from elsewhere. The piano was never located. The weather warmed up along with all the wet insulation and rotting food stuffs thrown out of flying refrigerators and pantry shelves it was pretty smelly. Let me rephrase that, "it would gag a maggot" They could not get the debris out of here soon enough as far as I was concerned.
OKC went and got quotes for debris removal that was about 50% of the Relief Funds with the promise of the left over funds to be used for parks walking/biking trails and side walks. (So they got double funds)
Then they went after the insurance company for debris removal which was paid (So they got triple funds)
Then they put a tax lien on the property for debris removal. I took them to task on this one and took about 2 1/2 days of leg work to get them to remove the lien. (they were asking for quadruple funds)
So they got triple the funds and of course the left over funds seemed to have just disappeared for other uses.

The small township just north of me used the left over funds properly and built some nice parks sidewalks and wonderful trails, which just rubs it in when I go past there.

In that light then Colburn was correct in that he knew what was going to happen and no funds would be needed as they would be squandered.

Okie


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7220 posts, RR: 17
Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Not sure if posted but it was upgraded to an EF-5 status......I know these people have town pride and all but I'd move out and find a less tornadic city to live in now....

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 68):
How about Japan then? In descending order of danger: Earthquakes, tsunamis, active volcanoes, typhoons, landslides, tornadoes, poison "yellow sand" from China, wayward North Korean missiles, and Godzilla!!!

   lets not forget radioactive rabbits



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

If you look at Google maps at some of the before photos of the homes in the stricken area you can tell that this was not a very high income area. Which makes it just that much harder for the people to recover. Insurance will cover a lot of things, but it doesn't cover everything. I imagine a lot of people will have no choice but to rebuild where they are as they may not have the needed funding to relocate elsewhere. It's a very sad situation.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3354 posts, RR: 9
Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
There isn't much short of a full blown bunker that will stand up to a tornado like that.

  

It looks like that area was hit with an atomic bomb, in fact the force was several times a Hiroshima bomb.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Living in the midwest means playing Russian roulette with the weather, it's just how it is.

  

Living in many places you play this game. In SoCal you can have wildfires and earthquakes, in Florida you can have hurricanes, heck even in a place like Toronto you could get an icestorm in the winter that can knock out power in the middle of winter which could knock out power.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
I know that they have them in Australia and are pretty intense. They have also have them in Argentina. One destroyed 2 steel warehouse in our ranch a few years ago here in Northeastern Mexico

Anywhere that you can get a thunderstorm there is a possibility of a Tornado, in fact the country with the highest levels of Tornadoes per sq. mile is the UK IIRC.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
It´s just that in the US they tend to strike near populated areas and receive much more coverage, naturally.

North America has a unique feature to have a large area of flat land that has two mountain ranges between it which allows hot air from the gulf and cold air from the arctic and Canada to mix in the valley we call Tornado alley.

As bad as this storm was it is just a matter of time before Dallas or St. Louis gets hit.  



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 75):
If you look at Google maps at some of the before photos of the homes in the stricken area you can tell that this was not a very high income area. Which makes it just that much harder for the people to recover. Insurance will cover a lot of things, but it doesn't cover everything. I imagine a lot of people will have no choice but to rebuild where they are as they may not have the needed funding to relocate elsewhere. It's a very sad situation.

It is actually a mix. The first neighborhood it went through, at least in Moore and S OKC, are homes that are typically from $175 to $250k then it gets into 70k-130k homes and then back up. Typical middle class area. Of course homes at that price are typically your 3 bed 2 bath 1200-1500 sq ft up to 2500 sq ft.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 74):
Not sure if posted but it was upgraded to an EF-5 status......I know these people have town pride and all but I'd move out and find a less tornadic city to live in now....

Living here isn't for everyone.   As far as posting the upgrade to EF-5, scroll up two posts from yours.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 36):
The Whitehouse has flown in the MSDNC propaganda anchors in the middle of the night and are broadcasting live from the area.I just checked in on their commentary and you are correct. Never let a good crisis go to waste

As expected with all the troubles in DC, Obama is headed here I think I heard Sunday.

When Clinton came in 99 after the tornado, someone painted on their damaged roof something about Clinton looking for a blow job for him to see when the president overflew the damaged area. Most people just took it for a laugh. Obama would probably call in a drone strike.

Okie


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 78):
As expected with all the troubles in DC, Obama is headed here I think I heard Sunday.

Actually I believe that the horrific damage done by tornadoes over the past few days might be the reason. Presidents do that for a variety of reasons. At least Obama sent the head of FEMA to OKC instead of some worthless dude called "Brownie".

Heck of a job there W.   


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 79):

"Heck of a job there W."

As if "Heck of a job there O." is a lot better?? Aren't a lot of folks still waiting for "FEMA" help after the problems in NJ, NY still waiting? Talkety talkety.

And yeah, Ken777, I DO agree with you about "Brownie". Another "Peter Principle" of promoting someone to the degree of his/her incompetency. We'll see how this currrent $hit plays out after the smoke dies down. My guess is...well..you can probably infer what my guess would be considering the government sound byte source(s). It's a sad state of affairs that this tragedy will ultimately be another "tool" for politicians. As much as I dislike persons such as Rahm Emanuel, I must give him credt for coining a lasting phrase..."never lett a good (problem? emergency? tragedy? whatever) go to waste.

Sorry if I've offended. Wait, no I'm not sorry. Just my opinions right or wrong irrespective of other's ops. best regards...jkack



all best; jack
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 81, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

A perspective about living in tornado country as opposed to other areas. I grew up in the midwest, moved to the Seattle area about 25 years ago. I definitely do not miss tornado season. That being said, at least you have some inkling that bad stuff may happen there - they don't just suddenly appear out of a clear blue sky. You know when storms are coming and know that severe weather is possible so you have a chance to stay alert for changing conditions. That isn't to say a tornado can't spin up very quickly out of a more or less "average" thunderstorm but still, if the weather's bad, that gives you an idea it could happen. Out here earthquakes are a very real threat and you get ZERO warning if one happens. The 6.9 (or maybe it was 6.8, whatever) we had in 2001 was on a beautiful sunny day. One minute everything's nice and peaceful, the next your whole world is shaking and stuff's falling off the walls. So there's risk wherever you are.

User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 78):
As expected with all the troubles in DC, Obama is headed here I think I heard Sunday.

When Clinton came in 99 after the tornado, someone painted on their damaged roof something about Clinton looking for a blow job for him to see when the president overflew the damaged area. Most people just took it for a laugh. Obama would probably call in a drone strike.

I just wonder what they will do for their self serving Senators. Probably throw a banquet and charge it to the feds.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 81):
One minute everything's nice and peaceful, the next your whole world is shaking and stuff's falling off the walls. So there's risk wherever you are.

I get that point. With Tornado's , you know there is a storm, with a hurricane, you know there is one out there way ahead of time,. WIth a volcano, you know if you are near one. With an earthquake you don't know. The one we had on the east coast a few years ago, I though ti was the road crew blasting bedrock, (it was a small quake). However, predictability/probability is based on past occurrences, and Moore/OKC lie right in the middle of Ground Zero for US tornadoes.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 82):
I just wonder what they will do for their self serving Senators. Probably throw a banquet and charge it to the feds.

You are going to have to sit in front of that monitor for along time if you are waiting for me to be surprised about what goes on in DC. 

Okie


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 83):

You are going to have to sit in front of that monitor for along time if you are waiting for me to be surprised about what goes on in DC.

Not talking about DC. Just about your elected officials, and their lack of equal federal responsibility, I wouldn't waste a microsecond of time waiting fort he folks that would offend a US President on a rooftop to comprehend what is wrong about what Coburn and Inhofe have done and said



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 84):
I wouldn't waste a microsecond of time waiting fort he folks that would offend a US President on a rooftop to comprehend what is wrong about what Coburn and Inhofe have done and said

First Amendment Rights on the roof does not mean you have to believe it, it was comical, I had no issues with Clinton.

Okie's are pretty independent and fiscally conservative so Colburn and Inhofe are serving at the federal level representing their majority of their voting constituency. Does that pose a problem?

Okie


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2430 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 85):
Okie's are pretty independent and fiscally conservative so Colburn and Inhofe are serving at the federal level representing their majority of their voting constituency. Does that pose a problem?

Not a problem for Oklahomans, However for the rest of the federal country that can divert funds to OK.....I think the message is rather clear.... Time to close Tinker and other federal programs ... If they want to go it alone... by all means do it. However don't claim the funds for a distaster if you are going to deny it for others based on a litmus of "balanced budgers" It sound cheap and immature. That is where Coburn and Inhofe come of as completely pathetic in all this,.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 87, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2431 times:

Folks, 24 people died, perhaps more, hundreds injured, thousands homeless, a couple of billion in damages. And you're stooping to partisan potshots at each other even before the bodies are cold? Give it a rest.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2429 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 87):
minutes 59 secs ago) and read 3 times:

Folks, 24 people died, perhaps more, hundreds injured, thousands homeless, a couple of billion in damages. And you're stooping to partisan potshots at each other even before the bodies are cold? Give it a rest.

Nah, Partisanship was declared by Coburn , Inhofe and their selfish ilk after Sandy. Potshots gotta land where they gotta land. This was an act of nature, not a political race. However Inhofe and Coburn have no such intellect.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 89, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2425 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 81):
That being said, at least you have some inkling that bad stuff may happen there - they don't just suddenly appear out of a clear blue sky. You know when storms are coming and know that severe weather is possible so you have a chance to stay alert for changing conditions. That isn't to say a tornado can't spin up very quickly out of a more or less "average" thunderstorm but still, if the weather's bad, that gives you an idea it could happen.

The one thing about Oklahoma and OKC in particular - you have to be under a rock in a cave detached from society to not know when bad weather is coming. Those of us in the weather community were discussing the potential for this event 10 DAYS ahead of time. Models were that zoned in on nailing the potential that far out for this 3 days event. The significance of the event was known 5-6 days out. The forecasting around this event was pretty spot on, so at least the alert level was there.

The coverage of the event itself is unmatched anywhere in the US or world. The OKC market, even more so than Dallas or Kansas City, is the primo market for meteorologists that want to either study or do the on camera work with severe weather. The TV guys get vast large budgets, all the latest broadcast toys, and large contingents of educated trackers/chasers in the field. KWTV (9) in particular is probably the gold standard thanks to Gary England and all of his contributions to broadcast meteorology and meteorology in general. A short list that comes to mind includes first on air commercial doppler radar, first on air tornado warning with the doppler radar, invented the first warning alert map (or bug) every station has now, invention of the storm tracker (forecast path) technology, first versions of computer/device based warning maps for consumers, amongst many others.

Back to the overall coverage in OKC. The 3 primary stations have experience helicopter pilots with storm tracking experience that provide unique views from the air. The ground storm trackers have been doing it for years. KWTV in particular has around 10 on staff with 2 of them being degreed meteorologist - one of which will replace Gary when he retires next year. When you add the public/academic component to storm spotting the saturation is unmatched and nothing goes unnoticed. For academics or research the facilities at the University of Oklahoma are among the best. The Storm Prediction Center, National Severe Storms Lab, Radar Operations Center, and over a dozen other agencies are based in the National Weather Center in Norman. This really spoils us because we tend to have the most advanced technology available to us which is also utilized by the NWS Forecast Office in Norman as well. This includes the next generation phased array radar which has been in use for a few years now in Norman that is being pegged to eventually replaced all the existing WSR-88D radars at some point down the road.

Of course all this experience and technology cannot give amazing advance warning all the time, but a lot of that comes down to where the storms develop and how fast they organize. The May 20th storm with the EF5 went from a basic disorganized severe storm and tornadoed (yes, we use it as a verb here) not long after. The amount of warning time though that we get is remarkably high if you stay weather aware. The May 3, 1999 long track tornado provided almost 2 HOURS of lead time to South OKC/Moore before it hit. The May 20th storm had around 20 minutes to the hardest hit areas, but media coverage probably provided more than that because the ground truth (and those from the helicopters) provided real time information when the wall cloud started wrapping up.

At the end of the day though, we still lost 24 Oklahomans...but many more would have been lost without the amazing benefits we are blessed with here that other states don't have.

Now some more details coming out from NWS Norman...



May 19th Run Down: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-20130519

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/oun/wxevents/20130519/20130519-tornadotracks.png

May 20th Run Down: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-20130520

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NORMAN OK
406 PM CDT WED MAY 22 2013

...LATEST ON TORNADO INFORMATION FOR MAY 19 AND MAY 20...

A NUMBER OF TORNADOES AFFECTED PORTIONS OF CENTRAL AND WESTERN
OKLAHOMA ON MAY 19 AND 20. INFORMATION ON MOST OF THESE TORNADOES IS
STILL VERY PRELIMINARY.

...MAY 19 EDMOND TORNADO /OKLAHOMA COUNTY/...
RATING: EF1
PATH LENGTH: 7 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: TO BE DETERMINED
TIME: 4:22-4:30 PM CDT
LOCATION: NEAR 33RD STREET AND SOUTH BOULEVARD STREET
IN EDMOND TO NEAR HIGHWAY 66 AND POST ROAD

...MAY 19 ARCADIA TORNADO /OKLAHOMA COUNTY/...
RATING: EF0
PATH LENGTH: SHORT
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: NARROW
TIME: 4:33 PM CDT
LOCATION: APPROX. 1 SW ARCADIA

...MAY 19 LUTHER-CARNEY TORNADO
/OKLAHOMA.. LOGAN AND LINCOLN COUNTIES/...
RATING: EF3
PATH LENGTH: 20 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: TO BE DETERMINED
TIME: 4:41 PM - 5:24 PM CDT
LOCATION: 3 NORTHWEST OF LUTHER TO CARNEY TO
2 MILES SOUTHEAST OF TRYON

...MAY 19 LAKE THUNDERBIRD-SHAWNEE TORNADO
/CLEVELAND AND POTTAWATOMIE COUNTIES/...
RATING: EF4
PATH LENGTH: 20 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: TO BE DETERMINED
TIME: 6:00 PM - 6:50 PM CDT
LOCATION: LAKE THUNDERBIRD /8 MILES EAST OF DOWNTOWN
NORMAN TO 6.5 MILES EAST-SOUTHEAST OF MCLOUD

...MAY 19 WEST OF PRAGUE TORNADO
/POTTAWATOMIE AND LINCOLN COUNTIES/...
RATING: EF2
PATH LENGTH: 7 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: 400 YARDS
TIME: 6:59 PM - 7:12 PM CDT
LOCATION: 6 MILES WEST-SOUTHWEST OF PRAGUE TO
3 MILES NORTH-NORTHWEST OF PRAGUE

...MAY 19 NORTHEAST OF PRAGUE TORNADO
/LINCOLN AND OKFUSKEE COUNTIES/...
RATING: EF1
PATH LENGTH: 10 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: 700 YARDS
TIME: 7:17 PM - 7:33 PM CDT
LOCATION: 3.5 MILES NORTHEAST OF PRAGUE TO
5.5 MILES WEST OF WELTY

...MAY 20 NEWCASTLE/MOORE TORNADO
/GRADY..MCCLAIN AND CLEVELAND COUNTIES/...

RATING: EF5
PATH LENGTH: 17 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: 1.3 MILES
TIME: 2:45 PM - 3:35 PM CDT
LOCATION: 4.4 MILES WEST NEWCASTLE TO 4.8 MILES EAST
OF MOORE

...MAY 20 STEPHENS COUNTY TORNADO...

RATING: TO BE DETERMINED
PATH LENGTH: APPROXIMATELY 6 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: TO BE DETERMINED
TIME: 7:58 PM - 8:20 PM CDT
LOCATION: APPROXIMATELY 7 MILES SOUTH-SOUTHEAST OF
MARLOW TO 3 MILES WEST OF BRAY.

OTHER TORNADO REPORTS ARE ALSO STILL BEING INVESTIGATED FROM MAY 20.


User currently offlinethunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 563 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

I saw this on twitter posted by google, it is satellite photos of the area that was hit by the tornado.

http://google.org/crisismap/2013-okl...%2C8%2Clayer2%2Clayer11%2C10%3A100

[Edited 2013-05-23 06:52:22]


Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21528 posts, RR: 55
Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 86):
That is where Coburn and Inhofe come of as completely pathetic in all this,.

Coburn also went on MSNBC this morning and claimed that the residents of Moore shouldn't be worried about building to withstand another tornado because the chances of getting hit by two tornados are "almost zero". When challenged on that, he responded by saying the person who was arguing with him (I didn't catch who it was) should take a statistics class. In fact, the person who should take the statistics class is Coburn himself, since the probability of a tornado hitting Moore again is the same as it was before.

This would be only humorous, except for the fact that he might be making or recommending policies based on that highly flawed logic (or people could hear it and act based on it), and that could really hurt people down the road.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4487 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 90):
I saw this on twitter posted by google, it is satellite photos of the area that was hit by the tornado.

http://google.org/crisismap/2013-okl...3A100

It's amazing to see that detailed of a shot of what occurred. You can trace the whole path with that satellite.

Quoting Mir (Reply 91):

This would be only humorous, except for the fact that he might be making or recommending policies based on that highly flawed logic (or people could hear it and act based on it), and that could really hurt people down the road.

Stupid is as stupid does. Pretty telling what kind of folks are sitting in positions of power on all sides.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

This morning we have several inches of torential rain, flash flooding and hail.
It is turning the tornado damaged area into a quaking bog.

Okie


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2333 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 93):
This morning we have several inches of torential rain, flash flooding and hail.
It is turning the tornado damaged area into a quaking bog.

Yeah so far we are looking at 2.5" at Will Rogers and 1.16 in Norman, so Moore is probably pretty close to the 2" mark. It should be moving out soon. However, storm chances remain until the end of the weekend, so its going to be a mess out there for recovery efforts.

http://www.mesonet.org/data/public/mesonet/maps/realtime/today.rainrfc.png?1369325056370


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

I hope they can start the cleanup of debris soon, I imagine the area is stinking pretty bad from food that flew out of refrigerators and freezers during the tornado as well as home insulation. I remember from Hurricane Ike that when insulation gets wet it really stinks!!


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 95):

I hope they can start the cleanup of debris soon, I imagine the area is stinking pretty bad from food that flew out of refrigerators and freezers during the tornado as well as home insulation. I remember from Hurricane Ike that when insulation gets wet it really stinks!!

Yeah, as rain keeps falling the risk of disease goes up as mosquitos will start to be a huge problem.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

I just saw on the news that the cleanup is beginning with streets and access roads so residents can get to their homes. I wonder how long it will take until most of the debris is collected? How long did it take to clean up the 1999 damage?

You know if something like this happened to me, I wouldn't even know where to start. What do people do after something like this? Is there a procedure for recovery? I am sure there is, but I don't know what it is.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Here are two satellite pictures. One showing the before and one showing the after:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/medias/2013/05/23/PHOc1fbb226-c3c6-11e2-a03c-0cf843a57792-805x453.jpg

http://www.lefigaro.fr/medias/2013/05/23/PHOf5df8860-c3c6-11e2-a03c-0cf843a57792-805x453.jpg

You can clearly see the path of the tornado.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 89):
The OKC market, even more so than Dallas or Kansas City, is the primo market for meteorologists that want to either study or do the on camera work with severe weather.

Doesn't Reed Timmer, the obnoxious Stormchasers guy, live in that area (Norman, I think)?


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 100, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 99):
Doesn't Reed Timmer, the obnoxious Stormchasers guy, live in that area (Norman, I think)?

He does. He live in Norman and now chases full time for KFOR, which seems weird for a guy with a PhD. However, they are also using his "dominator" vehicles for storm tracking now.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 97):

I just saw on the news that the cleanup is beginning with streets and access roads so residents can get to their homes. I wonder how long it will take until most of the debris is collected? How long did it take to clean up the 1999 damage?

Hard to say how long. There will probably be clean up for awhile. Not all the debris will get removed either. There is still rusted twisted steel high up in a tree in Midwest City near Tinker AFB from the '99 tornado.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 97):
You know if something like this happened to me, I wouldn't even know where to start. What do people do after something like this? Is there a procedure for recovery? I am sure there is, but I don't know what it is.

Yeah its hard to say. I've had plenty of close calls here (EF4 in 2010 half mile south, EF4 Sunday 2 miles east, EF2 one mile north a couple years ago). The folks there have been through this before, not that it ever get easier. This is the 5th significant tornado along this path (one lifted in SW OKC before it reach Moore). They'll just start picking up the pieces and get out what they can salvage and then the city will come through and haul the debris away to allow the home owners to start rebuilding.


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2261 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 96):
Yeah, as rain keeps falling the risk of disease goes up as mosquitos will start to be a huge problem.

Do not forget the fly's, warm weather, wet insulation and materials like furniture and mattresses and old clothing are massive incubators for their larva.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 97):
I just saw on the news that the cleanup is beginning with streets and access roads so residents can get to their homes. I wonder how long it will take until most of the debris is collected? How long did it take to clean up the 1999 damage?

In the May 3rd tornado they got in pretty quick with large front end loaders like a 960Cat and got all the streets cleared in about 7 to 10 days but just piled the debris off the roadways. I live on a through street for the neighborhood and it was cleared in about 3-4 days after the best I can remember.
They then came through and collected up the piles of automobiles shortly thereafter when they had access to the streets.
There were hoards of volunteers to help clean up but there was not much salvageable, everything that was found salvageable fit in about 12 bins the size of a laundry basket. We had to carry them out of the neighborhood because the main roads here were blocked with powerlines/poles it was about a half mile hike. Maybe it was longer than 3-4 days on the street. Made several trips back over the following summer months, that was when it was real smelly.
This was the OKC area's first rodeo with this much damage and it took about 5 to 6 weeks to get a contract with a contractor and they had 90 days to complete the job. It was late August when my area was cleared.
The contractor was well ahead of the 90 day schedule and were contacting home owners about foundation removal which you and or your insurance company had to pay if you were not going to immediately rebuild.
You had to permit the job with a licenced contractor which insured that the water, sewer and gas lines were removed as well. That took place in October.

Okie


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

Although an incredible tragedy, I'm glad to see the death toll steadily coming down from previous reports and the number of homes destroyed also coming down in estimate. No relief for those souls affected, of course, but still it's a "better" (if that's the right word) situation than first opined.

Also good is the outreaching of help from far away. Locally here in TN there are several events, mostly from churches, collecting funds for relief efforts.

I still wish those folks would embrace the notion of building true tornado shelters, though. I think we all know (and they know) it's going to happen again. Kind regards and best wishes to our neighbors in Oklahoma...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3868 posts, RR: 14
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 91):
Coburn also went on MSNBC this morning and claimed that the residents of Moore shouldn't be worried about building to withstand another tornado because the chances of getting hit by two tornados are "almost zero"

Didn't Moore get hit by a pretty bad tornado in 1999?


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 103):
Didn't Moore get hit by a pretty bad tornado in 1999?

This is what we've seen in Cleveland County (which Moore is in) since 1950...

http://www.tornadohistoryproject.com/custom/2695340

This doesn't include 2013 yet which would have the May 19th EF4 from East Norman/Lake Thunderbird area up to Shawnee, and of course the EF5 from Newcastle through Moore to SE OKC/Lake Stanley Draper.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 99):
Doesn't Reed Timmer, the obnoxious Stormchasers guy, live in that area (Norman, I think)?


Why do I have the feeling that one day he's going to get blown away? From the videos I've seen him in he seems to be pretty reckless. Too much screaming and excitement. One day he's going to slip and get a Darwin award.

Thanks for the info about the cleanup process. I never knew that. Gee, that's a long time for the debris to stay and sit in the hot Oklahoma summer heat. But when you look at the amount of debris, it makes sense. There is a LOT of work to do. If this happened to me I don't know how I would be able to handle it.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Next round under way. KWTV is streaming live online doing wall to wall coverage...

http://www.news9.com/


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1927 times:

One of the Tornado Hunter trucks damaged today when it was flipped in one of the tornados in OKC today:

https://twitter.com/SeanSchoferTVN/status/340625216378126337



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

Scary night here in OKC

Lots of small f2's and f3's

Okie


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

I know that storm chasing is serious business, but this video ended up being kind of funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZNsproDzs

The Weather Channel has been playing parts of it tonight.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Jeez I think if I lived in OKC I might think of moving they are getting their share of abuse this month.. Hope everyone is ok..


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1830 times:

About 75,000 without power from power lines down.
Sporadic damage to buildings, most of the tornado's were small and only touched down short distances.
I-40 shut down due to overturned vehicles, one women and child died west of OKC from auto driven into tornado.
Lots of overturned vehicles, trucks mainly.

The storm has stalled out and has put down 6 to 9 inches of rain in a couple hours causing flash flooding.

I had at least 6 inches of rain but I do not think I got 9 but it is still raining. The street in front of house is flooded up to the tail lights of a Toyota that was stalled in the street. I pulled it to higher ground with my H2.
My yard is a quaking bog.

Noticed the Weather Channel "Tornado Hunt 2013" logo car got hit by tornado and tossed a couple hundred yards off the road and destroyed.
So now they have hunted a tornado down, the vehicle looks worse for the wear, probably a good thing they did not catch it.


Okie


User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1821 times:

Ya'll hang on tight and keep safe now, OK?


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1815 times:

Tons of rain and more storms. CNN which is running live coverage at 2:30am EST is reporting 5 dead 70injured today. The weather has just been perfect for tornadoes to develop.

Hope everyone is ok.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 109):
I know that storm chasing is serious business, but this video ended up being kind of funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZNs...roDzs

Check out that video at about 3:20. There's a vehicle traveling in the same direction as they are that passes them on the left and it is just jumping up and down on the road. It's as if someone put a vehicle on top of one of those mechanical bulls.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 114):
Check out that video at about 3:20. There's a vehicle traveling in the same direction as they are that passes them on the left and it is just jumping up and down on the road

Looks like the vehicle filming was driving down the center of the road and slammed on the brakes blocking the road and the other vehicle had to take evasive maneuvers. I could not tell if the other vehicle was bouncing down the ditch or bouncing over debris.

Okie


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 110):
Jeez I think if I lived in OKC I might think of moving they are getting their share of abuse this month.. Hope everyone is ok..

Just a typical May.  


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

The death toll from this storm was upped to 9 people now. A mother and child were killed when they were trying to outrun the storm and their car got sucked up into the tornado and they got sucked out of the vehicle. Sad.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 1672 times:

Three years ago, the brosband and I drove from Bozeman to Regina. We wanted to see Dog River. We didn't know there was a tornado warning out for eastern Montana, western North Dakota and southern Saskatchewan. I don't know how many funnels and tornados we saw. I hate that feeling. One funnel was right over the highway and coming down as we drove north.

1992, I was in Topeka and moved to the hallway of the Fairfield Inn when a group of tornados hit. I remember a couple from Manhattan, Kansas was visiting "the big city" that week. We all just sat and waited.

It really bothers me the tele-vangelists use these storms to push their beliefs that God is punishing America. Tornados happen. We rebuild. We carry on. We still have faith.

I stand with the people of Oklahoma and against the tele-vangelists.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Some political person stated that the Republican party "brought" the May 20th tornado to Oklahoma. What did they do? Send Rick Perry out with a rope to lasso it and single handedly drag it to Oklahoma? (Just making a joke) This was just as bad as the tele-evangilists.

On the news tonight they showed a photo of the neigborhoods of some of the areas hit by the May 20th tornado. I was very surprised how much progress has been made clearing the streets of all the debris. Of course all the properties are debris covered but the streets for the most part appear to be clean again.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

A friend point out this advertisement to me today

http://www.familysafetexas.com/


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1617 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 120):

And let's just hope that the unfortunate folks having to rebuild have the fortunate insight to avail themselves of these safety structures, or as I opined earlier, at least dig a damn hole in their backyards. I wish them all the best....jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 120):
A friend point out this advertisement to me today

http://www.familysafetexas.com/

It's good to see the safe rooms surviving the storm. Of course, unless it was at the Briarwood area, it wasn't in the part of the storm producing EF5 damage. Looking at the photo they provided most of the walls are gone except for a couple that are probably close to the center part of the amount I would imagine. This would put it in the DOD rating of 8 or low range 9 so we are talking winds of 170 mph which would fall under EF4. Still...EF5 damage is usually not very widespread in a tornado and if the safe room made it through EF4 winds, then it's more than likely going to survive EF5 winds.

http://www.familysafetexas.com/images/FamilySAFE%20Moore%20EF5.jpg

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/ef-scale.html


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

Looks like three stormchasers were killed in the El Reno storm on Friday:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/02/us/midwest-weather/index.html

The three had been on the TV show "Storm Chasers" on Discovery.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1628 posts, RR: 20
Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 123):
Looks like three stormchasers were killed in the El Reno storm on Friday

Here's an interesting article in hindsight:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...actions-and-storm-chasing-forever/

It's sad that something so serious as severe weather has been glamorized and glorified in the reality show hype of the past few years. It seems that chasers are now sometimes just trying to deliver the most "epic" video footage by getting as close as possible, rather than focusing primarily on communicating the location and direction of the storm to those who depend on their expertise. They've gotta have shocking and dramatic to post online after the fact. Reed Timmer, with his obsession with IMAX footage of the inside of a tornado and his endless screaming inside the vehicle, may have been one of the instigators of this.

These tornado chasing shows as of late seem to reinforce the notion that it's okay for the average Joe (or any amateur weather enthusiast) to just get in the car and go after these monster storms, or even flee from them via automobile. The traffic jams and associated injuries and fatalities near OKC show the real danger in these actions.



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 125, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1553 times:

There are photos of the wreckage of their vehicle on national news media web sites. The engine is ripped off the front, the passenger compartment collapsed. It was obviously thrown into the air and crashed hard into the ground.

Vehicles, of any type, are not safe places to be in a tornado.

Given the experience level of the 'professional' people caught in this storm, I think it was more a case of the roads being so jammed with other vehicles rather than the storm being unusually unpredictable which allowed them to be caught.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

To me with all his screaming and jumping around in the fields Reed Timmer just comes across as childish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZNsproDzs

And why is Brandon Sullivan screaming at the people in the car with them? Is he trying to break their ear drums?

I'm afraid that both of these guys have a Darwin award waiting for them to pick up someday.

Or maybe they are doing all of this to ramp up the drama so they can sell more tapes of their storm chasing activities on their own websites?



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1559 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting N243NW (Reply 124):
Here's an interesting article in hindsight:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 125):
Given the experience level of the 'professional' people caught in this storm

Tim was a scientist who was placing probes that measured pressure, wind speeds, humidity etc., the information which you can't get from a Doppler radar which can't see the most dangerous part of a tornado.

I agree amateur storm chasers are negligent and foolish and after seeing a video posted by Brandon Ivey (link below) I would think twice if I want to get closer than 5 miles from a tornado. The closest I was to a big tornado was less than a mile and it was a very frightening experience. Some of these guys risk their lives so forecasting can be better and I appreciate their efforts and courage.

http://stormchasingvideo.com/5272013...t-vehicle-hit-wedge-tornado-kansas

Godspeed, Tim Samaras.



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 128, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1512 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 125):
Given the experience level of the 'professional' people caught in this storm, I think it was more a case of the roads being so jammed with other vehicles rather than the storm being unusually unpredictable which allowed them to be caught.

The tornado's formed during rush hour traffic, you would normally expect the roads to be jammed with traffic.
The I-40 corridor west of OKC where the storms these storms formed is heavy, near bumper to bumper traffic during this time period along with a rain storm slowing traffic.

What was going on here is that normally the storm chasers try to stay on the southeast quadrant of the tornado in the rain free area shooting there footage to the northwest. These tornado's were forming then dissipating and reforming back towards the southwest of their locations. That kept the storm-chasers busy trying to move south to get to the rain free areas to view the tornado's and not have their view obstructed by rain.
What happened to Samaras was the tornado reformed southwest of their previous location, they were moving south to get a clear view but got caught in the path of the tornado that was obstructed by rain.

Okie


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 129, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

Quoting N243NW (Reply 124):

I'm thinking "right you are". Probably won't be long before we hear about 'alligator hunters' and 'ax-men' and such other "reality" folks getting dusted off because of a (at least) subconscious want to be on film.

I am pretty sure that this is not the case with dedicated professionals, and it also seems to me that dedicated professionals (read: professionals and not wannabe's) usually don't yell and scream and freak out when engaged in the trials of what they surely must know is a possibility.

I hope I'm not being too critical...I know that many f these folks really are into the science of weather...but I also wonder how many of them have a degree in meterology as opposed to a degree in TV. best regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 130, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 129):
I am pretty sure that this is not the case with dedicated professionals, and it also seems to me that dedicated professionals (read: professionals and not wannabe's) usually don't yell and scream and freak out when engaged in the trials of what they surely must know is a possibility.

Just imagine if the Captain and FO started screaming, hollering and freaking out for something like an in flight shutdown or a gear indication.  Wow!

Okie


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 131, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 129):
I am pretty sure that this is not the case with dedicated professionals, and it also seems to me that dedicated professionals (read: professionals and not wannabe's) usually don't yell and scream and freak out when engaged in the trials of what they surely must know is a possibility.

Exactly my point. It's also easier to take them more seriously when they aren't acting like hyperactive little kids.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 132, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 128):
What was going on here is that normally the storm chasers try to stay on the southeast quadrant of the tornado in the rain free area shooting there footage to the northwest. These tornado's were forming then dissipating and reforming back towards the southwest of their locations. That kept the storm-chasers busy trying to move south to get to the rain free areas to view the tornado's and not have their view obstructed by rain.
What happened to Samaras was the tornado reformed southwest of their previous location, they were moving south to get a clear view but got caught in the path of the tornado that was obstructed by rain.

Normally chasers will go for the SE or S of the area of concern so they can get a good view of the rain free base. Normally. In this case there wasn't a rain free base most of the time as this cluster was HP through and through. There was a training of areas of rotation back to the west as cells kept developing on the tail end, but that isn't what happened here. If you were watching Spotter Network at the time, there were dozens of chasers both directly east and NORTH of the main area of rotation that produced the EF3. The chasers, not all, were positioning themselves in bad areas just so they could get a better shot for their videos.

Samaras wasn't caught by the tornado being to the south. The path of the tornado was originally going East then SE, but then is started to occlude which pulls the rotation back into the main mesocycle which turned the tornado to the NE. Had they remained to the Southeast or South of the main area of rotation they would be alive today. However, they made a bad call and it cost them. Now they were out doing research and needed to be in the path of the tornado for their probes, so they were well aware of the risks for their positions.

Now as far as Mike Bettes (TWC) and Brandon Sullivan...they were just flat out idiots. They are lucky to not be dead. Will they learn from it? I doubt it. I don't think you'll find many that would be against the local DA charging them with reckless endangerment to start making examples out of these yahoos.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

Imagery of the El Reno tornado from the experimental Phased Array Radar in Norman being developed to eventually replaced the WSR-88Ds out there (won't be widespread until after 2020 more than likely).



User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1383 times:

NBC news reporting death toll is now up to 18 as more bodies have been found after this last outbreak.

It just gets sadder...regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

Quoting N243NW (Reply 124):
Reed Timmer, with his obsession with IMAX footage of the inside of a tornado and his endless screaming inside the vehicle, may have been one of the instigators of this.

Reed is way over the top - truly obnoxious - surprised that the other guys in the car never punched his lights out. FWIW, he wasn't the IMAX guy, that was a guy in the other vehicle, Sean was his first name, don't remember the last name. He was a true pice of work as well - don't think I ever saw a more depressed or depressing person in my life.
As for Tim Samaris, he always came across as much more cautious, so much so that some of his team members were upset with him at times. Leads me to believe they just got caught up in traffic and could not get to a safer spot. We'll never know for sure but I'll bet he knew they were in big trouble before they got hit. RIP to those who perished


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4952 posts, RR: 19
Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1347 times:

What I like about the Brandon Sullivan video is that he is screaming his head off, then shuts up for a few moments. Then he notices the camera on him again and resumes his screaming. Pure acting. I couldn't find anything about him that would indicate he's a meterologist. At least Reed Timmer is.

And what about those people who offer "Tornado Vacations"? You sign up with them and they take you on their storm chasing adventures just to video you with a tornado in the backround. I wonder how qualified those guys are?



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2997 posts, RR: 9
Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1313 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 133):
Imagery of the El Reno tornado from the experimental Phased Array Radar in Norman

Now THAT is impressive imagery. You can really see the quick "left turn" that caught the chasers in El Reno as well as the multiple areas of rotation as it moved thru OKC.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 136):
And what about those people who offer "Tornado Vacations"? You sign up with them and they take you on their storm chasing adventures just to video you with a tornado in the backround. I wonder how qualified those guys are?

One of the more striking videos from Joplin was one of a series of videos from multiple weather tourists in 3 vans that very nearly got broadsided on Rangeline, just getting out of the way with seconds to spare, and then, amazingly, almost getting hit a second time on the Interstate taking the exit that was hit a few minutes later. That the tour company was taken by surprise the first time may (or may not?) be forgivable due to the rapid development of that EF5 and chaotic nature of that supercell. But to be so oblivious as to go east on the highway and get in the way of that rain wrapped monster was unforgivable.
Everything you see in the first minutes of the video ceased to exist when that beast just to the west came thru... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CburjPYmSdo



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3109 posts, RR: 6
Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 125):
Given the experience level of the 'professional' people caught in this storm, I think it was more a case of the roads being so jammed with other vehicles rather than the storm being unusually unpredictable which allowed them to be caught.

In some blogs I'm reading, highway congestion at the storm chaser site was supposedly not as congested as the freeway traffic jams that were shown via the traffic helicopters. The erratic storm and lack of visibility was a factor.

Tim Samaras was also regarded as a safer storm-chaser scientist who had grant support from National Geographic and NSF. But, his research pertained to releasing instruments that would be very near or in the tornado, which required close proximity at each event, so the law of averages was not on his side.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 136):
And what about those people who offer "Tornado Vacations"? You sign up with them and they take you on their storm chasing adventures just to video you with a tornado in the backround. I wonder how qualified those guys are?

When these outfits were less common, I think the chase tours were fairly reputable, former scientists. Now, who knows? "Everyone is a scientist" with a doppler radar image and a weather web page subscription with their smart phone.

-Rampart


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