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French Soldier Stabbed In The Neck In Paris  
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6134 posts, RR: 30
Posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2556 times:
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The news is just breaking so there is not much information on the condition of the soldier. It happened in La Defense neighorhood. The attacker, according to witnessess seems to be North African.

So, would this be coordinated attacks with the London one, or just a lone wolf copy-cat?


MGGS
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2503 times:

Just to be clear La Défense is the purpose built business district of Paris but not in Paris itself, rather it's next to it (and built on the land of 3 cities).

Like in other sensitive places there are armed and uniformed soldiers doing rounds there, in groups of three. This is part of the Vigipirate plan, that has been activated continuously for more than a decade, with higher and lower levels depending on the situation. Since the intervention in Mali vigilance is high.

From the news here the soldier's life isn't threatened fortunately, and the attacker is on the run.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 587 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2493 times:

Sky news says he's not in a serious condition. Does seen like a copycat attack, are a more feeble attempt at it (thankfully)

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2484 times:

Yeah no reason is known but since this is a soldier there specifically to squash terrorism, it's pretty sure terrorism was in the head of the attacker.

Soldiers patrolling in front of the Arche de La Défense :

http://hfr-rehost.net/http://www.ri92.terre.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicod/storage/images/base-de-medias/images/terrain/la-vieille-garde-en-mission-vigipirate-a-paris/57951-1-fre-FR/la-vieille-garde-en-mission-vigipirate-a-paris.jpg

Same in a metro station :

http://hfr-rehost.net/http://www.ri92.terre.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicod/storage/images/base-de-medias/images/terrain/la-vieille-garde-en-mission-vigipirate-a-paris2/57946-1-fre-FR/la-vieille-garde-en-mission-vigipirate-a-paris2.jpg

It seems confirmed that the attacker was North African and wearing a djellaba. The kind seen here usually looks like this :




New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days ago) and read 2435 times:

My first response is that I hope that the victim survives and that a family is not left bereft of someone they loved or who was a father of children.

As potential opportunities for large scale attacks seem to be reduced through increased security measures at public areas like airlines, railway stations and government offices, it does seem that there has been a shift from more prominent targets to isolated attacks that are less predictable and more random. This does suggest a weakening of those behind the attacks but it does have the possible effect of making attacks more damaging because they are less "controllable". I mean by that in the sense that it is relatively easy to impose access restrictions at airports, hospitals, etc but less so in a public street that not only provides access to a military barracks but also normal residential or industrial areas.

The other problem with "lone wolf" attacks that might arise but possibly already exists is that it perpetrators are not necessarily recognised as being a potential threat because they are relatively unknown. Given increased mobility not everyone knows who their neighbours are or what constitutes abnormal activity to be looked out for. Even people who have lived in an area for a long time might not be suspect because the planned attack might be carried out somewhere else. Even in attacks that occur, that are not terrorist related, friends, families and neighbours express surprise so the problems of detection are compounded unless a potential attacker makes statements that might give rise to concern.

It is a difficult problem and there is no easy solution. In the meantime I can only hope the victim of this attack survives and others are not similarly affected in future.


User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days ago) and read 2395 times:
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I am glad that the French soldier is not in serious condition. Again I am in favor of stronger laws to deal with such terrorist acts. This attack could just be a copycat of the London attack, if there is the knowledge of strong prison sentences or even the death penalty such attacks will not happen.   


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
This attack could just be a copycat of the London attack, if there is the knowledge of strong prison sentences or even the death penalty such attacks will not happen.

Actually the French have pretty tough punishments. In one high security prison, some lifetime inmates requested the re-introduction of the guillotine because they considered a lifte term in this 19th century hellhole worse than death.

Btw., anybody got a link?

Jan


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6134 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2373 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Btw., anybody got a link?

Here you go. I couldn´t find anything in Engilsh

http://internacional.elpais.com/inte.../actualidad/1369502362_903064.html



MGGS
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Btw., anybody got a link?

Here ya go, thankfully the injury doesn't appear to be life threatening, even though the soldier lost a considerable amount of blood:

French soldier stabbed in neck outside Paris



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Actually the French have pretty tough punishments. In one high security prison, some lifetime inmates requested the re-introduction of the guillotine because they considered a lifte term in this 19th century hellhole worse than death.

Well that's not exactly by design, although even in new prisons, if you're in solitary confinement in a maximum facility jail, life will not be nice.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
This attack could just be a copycat of the London attack, if there is the knowledge of strong prison sentences or even the death penalty such attacks will not happen.

This has been proven wrong many times (just look at the violence in the US). I think a little bit more publicity about actual trials and sentences of terrorist wannabees should be made, though, many have been arrested and convicted in the last 20 years (radical islamic terrorism is nothing new in France) but you hear far more about random rapists/murderers, for some reason.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

I also believe in it being a copycat of the London attack. Very similar circumstances.

Now... I'm wondering. How did the other two of that group of soliders miss the guy?

How do you miss a guy running away from your buddy, in a big white dress, especially when you have military training and an armed FAMAS rifle?

Also, with them being soldiers, he would have had the right, by law, to respond with gunfire. The rules of engagement for the military are much looser in France than those for the police.



Cheers
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Shooting in the middle of a busy railway station, I don't think so.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19413 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):

I am glad that the French soldier is not in serious condition. Again I am in favor of stronger laws to deal with such terrorist acts. This attack could just be a copycat of the London attack, if there is the knowledge of strong prison sentences or even the death penalty such attacks will not happen.  

The United States has these laws (rest assured, young Mr. Tzarnev will get life in prison or death). They have not deterred anything.

And how strong must the punishment be to deter a suicide attacker? That would be an interesting concept: the death penalty for suicide! That'll learn 'em!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):

Shooting in the middle of a busy railway station, I don't think so.

   Too much risk of hitting a bystander. Remember, the bullet from a high-powered weapon will travel THROUGH the target's body and continue with still quite a lot of energy, hitting and quite possibly killing anyone behind him.

This is why we really need to work on nonlethal weapons. If they could have used a sonic weapon like a hand-held LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon), it might have been unpleasant for bystanders, but not lethal or mutilating. But with a firearm as your only long-range weapon, you are highly constrained in a busy train station.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

I very seldom respond to a thread like this, as I seldom feel that I have anything significant enough to add to the discussion; in this case, (and thanks to the fine pictures, I DO have something to add ), that I have been thinking about for a very long time;

If you'll notice, the place is being patrolled by soldiers, in full battle gear, including their weapons; my kudos to the French authorities for this ! The French DON"T "mess around" ! Now........if only the "twitts" in the government of the U.K. would take a lesson from the French !

I love England, I greatly admire the Queen, I admire BOTH of her fine grandsons, ( even though their father is a bit of a "twitt" and his "squeeze" is.........( I can't even think of a suitable name for her that would make it through the censors )
but the "people" in Parlement (is it?) who actually run the place..........Policemen with "sticks" with radicals running amok in the streets with meat cleavers, hacking up lone, off-duty soldiers ? Hey......it's YOUR country, run it as you see fit.......but it certainly makes people around the civilized world wonder, when un-armed policemen with STICKS need to wait 20 minutes for a SINGLE armed policegirl to come shoot the perps !

Is it any wonder why radicals desiring to do radical things would choose to do them in London, (where they'll face STICKS), rather than in Paris, where they're certain to face ARMED SOLDIERS who are fully prepared to shoot them with assault weapons ? (If I was a radical with a desire to commit a radical act, I would stay the hell OUT of Paris !)

I might also give this bit of advice to the French authorities.......get some shot guns; much less worry about killing by-standers, and very little worry about "missing" the "perp".........



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19413 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 13):
If you'll notice, the place is being patrolled by soldiers, in full battle gear, including their weapons; my kudos to the French authorities for this ! The French DON"T "mess around" ! Now........if only the "twitts" in the government of the U.K. would take a lesson from the French !

What? Someone stabbed a FRENCH SOLDIER in FRANCE. Did you miss that bit? He was most likely armed.

So no, the firearms did not deter jack squat. Due to a combination of luck on the part of the soldier and lack of skill on the part of the attacker, I am glad that he will live. I am sure that it was not the intention of the attacker to merely inconvenience the man with a recovery that will take several weeks.


User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2140 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
And how strong must the punishment be to deter a suicide attacker?

His biggest punishment will be when his soul goes up it will not be directed to heaven and no 72 virgins waiting for him but a much hotter place  



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineSFBDude From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

The motive is not known yet but the article hints at the idea that it could be because of France's role in Mali. I doubt these attacks are for "religious" or "cultural" purposes.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 10):
Now... I'm wondering. How did the other two of that group of soliders miss the guy?

How do you miss a guy running away from your buddy, in a big white dress, especially when you have military training and an armed FAMAS rifle?

Do you really want the soldiers to open fire in a crowd? I assume that the attacker jumped the rear soldier of th team and by the time the others reacted he had dived back into the crowd. The place is not really unpopulated, you know.

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 10):
Also, with them being soldiers, he would have had the right, by law, to respond with gunfire. The rules of engagement for the military are much looser in France than those for the police.

Still, killing innocent civilians in the process is probably not covered by the rules of engagement.

Jan


User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 15):
His biggest punishment will be when his soul goes up it will not be directed to heaven and no 72 virgins waiting for him but a much hotter place  

I thought the 72 virgins thing was a myth, as it's not mentioned at all in the koran.

In any case, it hardly matters. When he dies, he'll get the same thing we all do.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):

Shooting in the middle of a busy railway station, I don't think so.

Too much risk of hitting a bystander. Remember, the bullet from a high-powered weapon will travel THROUGH the target's body and continue with still quite a lot of energy, hitting and quite possibly killing anyone behind him.

This is why we really need to work on nonlethal weapons. If they could have used a sonic weapon like a hand-held LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weapon), it might have been unpleasant for bystanders, but not lethal or mutilating. But with a firearm as your only long-range weapon, you are highly constrained in a busy train station.

This is why police use hollow point bullets, which result in nastier wounds, but where most of the energy of the bullet gets dissipated in the first target´s body, so if the bullet comes out in his back it doesn´t have too much energy left. Soldiers on the other hand have to use metal jacketted bullets due to the restrictions of the Geneva Convention, which don´t deform in the body, leaving a relatively clean wound channel, but which can carry through and stillo wound several bystanders.

Jan


User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

If they keep this up, there is going to be a strong (and understandable) backlash against those immigrant populations who refuse to assimilate and give up their religious hatreds. It is up to them to assimilate, not up to us to accept their ways (particularly when many of their ways come straight out of the Dark Ages).

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
So no, the firearms did not deter jack squat.



The purpose of a gun is really only 10% deterrence and 90% the ability to shoot any SOB who attacks you.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19413 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 15):
His biggest punishment will be when his soul goes up it will not be directed to heaven and no 72 virgins waiting for him but a much hotter place

That's great. I don't believe in God, Heaven, or Hell.

Silly me. I feel like stopping suicide bombers. Not lording over some wishful fictional fate.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
The purpose of a gun is really only 10% deterrence and 90% the ability to shoot any SOB who attacks you.

Well they didn't work, did they?

And I am going to quote you the next time you compare guns to cars.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
What? Someone stabbed a FRENCH SOLDIER in FRANCE. Did you miss that bit? He was most likely armed.

No, I didn't miss anything, and I can guarantee you that he WAS armed; I can also assure you that the "stabber" didn't approach him from the front.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
So no, the firearms did not deter jack squat.

Here's an idea for you.......why don't you send the French authorities an email and suggest that they provide their soldiers with sticks, rather that guns ? (and be sure to let us know what they say. )



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 22):

Honestly Charley I look forward to your posts. They remind me of this barfly/gadfly named Howard B who used to be a fixture (and reliable source of laughter) in the local bars I used to frequent in San Francisco's Hayes Valley back when I lived there in college. Keep it real!



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

http://www.english.rfi.fr/europe/201...ldier-stabbed-broad-daylight-paris
How nasty. I hope the perpetrator is rewarded with many, many years of solitary confinement. And that the soldier (Cédric Cordier is his name) has a quick recovery.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
Shooting in the middle of a busy railway station, I don't think so.

   No need to endanger other members of the public. The authorities will find him, though it will no doubt take some hours of trawling through CCTV footage to do so.

Quoting SFBDude (Reply 16):

The motive is not known yet but the article hints at the idea that it could be because of France's role in Mali.

As it happens France is actually beginning the drawdown/pullout in Mali. Though I guess this won't stop an extremist justifying their horrible actions.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22664484



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
25 rwy04lga : Technically, it's still a myth since no one has been able to confirm it.
26 Aesma : Well we fight religious nutjobs in Mali so it's no surprise it titillates religious nutjobs here and elsewhere (bombing of the French embassy in Trip
27 Post contains images Boeing717200 : There is no Islamic extremist problem that needs to be dealt with. It is all about oil. Rinse. Repeat.
28 AF1624 : Yes. That's what they are paid and trained to do.
29 DocLightning : No they are not. They are paid and trained to NOT open fire in the middle of a crowd of innocent civilians unless absolutely necessary. Shooting at a
30 MD11Engineer : The soldiers with guns have a purpose in a possible Bombay scenario, when you have heavily armed attackers indiscriminately shooting civilians and th
31 Darksnowynight : Touche, rwy04lga, touche...
32 777way : Its real and mentioned in the quran, they are called Hur, however I don't think their number is mentioned.
33 AR385 : And pray tell. How exactly do you know it´s real?
34 MD11Engineer : Off topic: I never understood why guys are attracted to virgin women. from my experience they are more trouble than fun, being afraid of possible pain
35 AF1624 : True, I haven't. But then, are they walking around with automatic rifles just for show ? In what possible way, then, could these guns help ? Because
36 AF1624 : At least we agree very much on one thing!
37 Post contains links and images MD11Engineer : As I have mentioned above, soldiers have to use full metal jacket bullets in their rifles as per the (older) Hague (not Geneva) convention. And even
38 777way : Its true because its the word of God sent through Arch Angel Gabriel in quran, wether its just to tame wild men of their passions on earth, only God
39 Aesma : Yes. If not they would be in civilian clothes with discreet (and usable, say tasers) weapons. In fact their rifles are not even loaded, the magazine
40 AeroWesty : If that's the case then, I don't see why a frontal attack wouldn't be the most logical, even though dismissed by other posters above, since that woul
41 DeltaMD90 : Not to distract from the overall point (I am glad the soldiers didn't just blast away, although it is hard to say whether they could have or not since
42 Aesma : Well you can still react if you see someone attacking you, deflecting the weapon or sidestepping or whatever. Also most people don't know the rifles
43 MD11Engineer : From what I know it dependes largely on the velocity of the bullet. At short ranges, like in this case (maybe ten meters or less), I´m quite sure th
44 Post contains links AeroWesty : A suspect has been captured, identified by DNA left on a beverage can left at the scene: Suspect 'admits soldier knife attack in Paris'
45 Aesma : Yes, he seems to be another "lone wolf radical". Also the same day the "most wanted" French criminal has been found, he escaped from prison a few mont
46 MD11Engineer : This seems to be the sstandard carrer for homegrown Muslim extremists in Europe today. Failed in school, decided that a "career" as a "gangsta" would
47 AeroWesty : You lost me here. How did radicals atone for their sins via Baader-Meinhof, etc.?
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