Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
The Fog Of Obamacare  
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 months 6 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

I already know many people on this forum support Obama; what I have always wondered is........how much do you REALLY know about Obamacare ? I just ran across this as I was about to shut down and go to bed; I didn't really have time to read a very long article, but this wasn't very long, so it didn't take very long to read it. Oddly enough, there is nothing about politics, liberals, conservative, or anything else that people normally argue about on this forum; it's ALL about the effect Obamacare is already having on employers, and on firms that advise employers; I thought it was pretty interesting.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...4/the_fog_of_obamacare_118539.html


Charley


Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3709 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (11 months 6 hours ago) and read 1880 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

You're back!!!! I've missed you. So glad we have our next dose of controversy.

By the way, I read this article that says some Republican-held states are purposely going to screw up the implementation of Obamacare in their territory to avoid giving the O yet another victory. What do you think of that? Probably another left-wing conspiracy perpetuated by ignorant Democrats who should shut up, right?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...care_implementation_good_news.html



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13047 posts, RR: 78
Reply 2, posted (11 months 6 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Your side lost, get over it.
Next......


User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (11 months 6 hours ago) and read 1869 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
it's ALL about the effect Obamacare is already having on employers, and on firms that advise employers; I thought it was pretty interesting.

Again, this is where they screwed the pooch. Mandating coverage is a good idea, how it has been implemented is not. There are successful examples of fixed-rate triple payer systems in each region of the world - the brilliant people in Washington just managed to ignore them.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (11 months 5 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Oddly enough, there is nothing about politics, liberals, conservative, or anything else that people normally argue about on this forum;

Headlines on realclearpolitics.com's home page provided by none other than NewsMax.   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13047 posts, RR: 78
Reply 5, posted (11 months 5 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
Headlines on realclearpolitics.com's home page

Is the name realclearpolitics an admission that it's very simplistic?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (11 months 5 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 5):
Is the name realclearpolitics an admission that it's very simplistic?

It does have a certain Political News-For-Dummies ring to it, doesn't it?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1789 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Oddly enough, there is nothing about politics, liberals, conservative, or anything else that people normally argue about on this forum

Real Clear Politics is a strongly conservative news source (the owners even say so). Any half-decent journalist can spin an article to the left or right without explicitly mentioning Republicans or Democrats.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
Probably another left-wing conspiracy perpetuated by ignorant Democrats who should shut up, right?

And foreigners! Never forget to blame the foreigners!



Flying refined.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
I thought it was pretty interesting.

Robert Samuelson can be an interesting writer, but he's so far tot he right that it's impossible for him to bring balance to his columns. Another case of a lucky sperm who lives on Daddy's name and looks down on the serfs in the country.

From the linked article"

Quote:

Many of these firms are only now coming to grips with the ACA, because they’d assumed that the Supreme Court would invalidate it or that a Republican White House would repeal it.

That's like figuring that those lottery numbers you dreamed up will pay your mortgage next payment so it's OK to go ahead and spend the money on that fishing trip.

Quote:

One adviser discussed a movie-theater chain that will keep most staff below the threshold. Many restaurants and hotels may do likewise.

They do that anyway - paying wages below the poverty line so the owners can become wealthy. And places like restaurants that use a tip based wage of around $3.50 an hour will send staff home during the day to "save money". DSO you really believe that these companies will be paying insurance for their staff? They won't even pay the standard minimum wage and THAT is pathetically low.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
I read this article that says some Republican-held states are purposely going to screw up the implementation of Obamacare in their territory to avoid giving the O yet another victory

That would be right. I live in Oklahoma and our right wing governor hasn't a clue as to how she (yes, she) is going to take care of the people in her state. Maybe they will just Die Fast and save the state money. Makes it pretty obvious that there should have been a public option that would totally by[ass the states. Every state that doesn't have everything in place by Jan 1st is simply more proof that we need a national public option.

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 3):
Mandating coverage is a good idea, how it has been implemented is not.

It's called state's rights - which allows the states to screw it up for political purposes. If California can be ready on Jan 1st and are now negotiating reductions in premiums then every GOP state should be able to do the same.

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 3):
the brilliant people in Washington just managed to ignore them

Actually delivering a significantly better system, like we see in Australia, wasn't possible because the GOP's #1 agenda was to ensure Obama wasn't elected. The serfs and other little people outside of the Beltway aren't that important (except for elections) and are not going to be served well by the GOP as long as various industries (like Pharma and Insurance) are making the massive contributions they do are telling the politicians how to vote.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
They do that anyway - paying wages below the poverty line so the owners can become wealthy. And places like restaurants that use a tip based wage of around $3.50 an hour will send staff home during the day to "save money". DSO you really believe that these companies will be paying insurance for their staff? They won't even pay the standard minimum wage and THAT is pathetically low.

Paying wages below the poverty line ? They were talking about Movie theater chains here.......so who works in "movie theaters " ? Ushers ? Kids selling pop corn and candy bars ? Old lady selling tickets ? How much would YOU pay them if YOU owned the theater ? $25 an hour maybe ? What your self-rightious bluster has already failed to mention is, the "product" that movie theaters sell, has already been priced out of it's market by GREEDY, "look at me" idiot "movie stars" who half the time can't remember who fathered their last kid, and think THEY should be paid $10,000,000 per picture because THEY are so "important"; but I never see you coming down on THEM, because THEY support YOUR choice for POTUS, ( who brought this monstrosity on the country in the first place!) The only thing that surprises me from the replies so far, is that so far, you have all somehow forgotten to blame George Bush for Obamacare ! (Of course then, we'd have to call it "George Bush Care" wouldn't we ?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Actually delivering a significantly better system, like we see in Australia, wasn't possible because the GOP's #1 agenda was to ensure Obama wasn't elected.

Everything is ALWAYS better in Australia according to you ! I've been hearing that now for 2 years; what I'm trying to figure out is, why on earth you move back to a "backwards country" like the U.S. ? And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ??????????? Who do YOU think they should have tried to keep from being elected ? Santa Claus ? Elvis ? ( They weren't running )

Let me get this straight...........you think it's perfectly fine for Hollywood Schmucks to demand $10,000,000 for a few weeks "effort" ( and ZERO investment ), but that anyone brazen enough to invest millions of dollars in a restaurant chain, (or any other business that employees high school drop outs ), should PAY said drop outs wages equal to the CEO of said greedy company, ( or the investors who supplied the capital to start the company that employees all of your "little people" so they they won't have to starve to death, right ? You're certainly entitled to your myopic world view, just like I'm entitled to disagree with who you voted for.

You know, I was thinking of you just yesterday when I was shopping in a big Wal-Mart; I asked about a dozen "workers" how they felt about working for Wal-Mart, even though the Waltons are ALL multi-billionaires; everyone I asked gave me the same answer...........I love it ! Do you think we should try to "organize them" so they can DEMAND $30 an hour, and el-primo healthcare ?



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1574 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
What your self-rightious bluster has already failed to mention is, the "product" that movie theaters sell, has already been priced out of it's market by GREEDY, "look at me" idiot "movie stars" who half the time can't remember who fathered their last kid, and think THEY should be paid $10,000,000 per picture because THEY are so "important"

We've heard this argument before with athletes. The agents who handle these people are hired for one thing and one thing only - get as much as possible. If the owners and producers feel they could sell their product without a big name attached, they would surely refuse to pay those figures, right?

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
I asked about a dozen "workers" how they felt about working for Wal-Mart, even though the Waltons are ALL multi-billionaires; everyone I asked gave me the same answer

Wal-Mart is probably not the best example. They have been sued by employees and authorities hundreds of times over the last decade and are frequently cited by business magazines as being poorly run on the HR side.

It has less to do with the billionaires who own them and more to do with stretching the law as far as it will go - which is probably not how most companies prefer to mold their public image. Now Wal-Mart certainly can afford the best lawyers, but it speaks volumes that numerous suits over unpaid overtime, unpaid training, illegal meal breaks, and falsification of timecards have each been settled for eight-digit amounts.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ??????????? Who do YOU think they should have tried to keep from being elected ? Santa Claus ? Elvis ? ( They weren't running )

Bullcrap.

They "should" be working for the best interests of the country, not going on a one-man vendetta because he's a liberal.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1787 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 3):
Again, this is where they screwed the pooch. Mandating coverage is a good idea, how it has been implemented is not.

I agree totally with this statement. While a healthcare mandate is something that is needed in a country where a large amount of it's citizens have no access to affordable healthcare, I do believe that our politicians with help from the insurance companies themselves crafted legislation that while somewhat accomplishing the goal of covering most people, failed in the cost management area. That is the main reason that health care legislation was even needed in the first place.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1789 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
and think THEY should be paid $10,000,000 per picture because THEY are so "important"

I don't think you understand how the entertainment industry works...

Most of the biggest names are actually paid as a percentage of the movie's box office sales. So if the movie flubs, they get paid less, and if it's a hit, they get paid more.

Also, you can count on only two hands the number of actors that will $10,000,000 on a single movie during the course of their career.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ??????????? Who do YOU think they should have tried to keep from being elected ? Santa Claus ? Elvis ? ( They weren't running )

What Ken was saying is that the GOP's priority was to beat Obama, rather than tackle more serious issues like unemployment, the economy, wealth disparity, international relations, etc.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
a few weeks "effort" ( and ZERO investment )

Again, I don't think you understand how the entertainment industry works. Try watching the credits sometime, and see how many actors are listed as producers of the film. Many also invest in films they don't star in. Actors certainly do invest in movies.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
everyone I asked gave me the same answer...........I love it !

   OBVIOUSLY! These people might work at Walmart, but they know enough that if they go bitching about their job to a customer, they'll be fired on the spot.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Do you think we should try to "organize them" so they can DEMAND $30 an hour, and el-primo healthcare ?

Walmart spends about a million dollars per year on ensuring that their employees never unionize. They have even closed a store where organizing efforts were successful.

But why do you think employees shouldn't get healthcare?



Flying refined.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21107 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Quote:

Many of these firms are only now coming to grips with the ACA, because they’d assumed that the Supreme Court would invalidate it or that a Republican White House would repeal it.

That's like figuring that those lottery numbers you dreamed up will pay your mortgage next payment so it's OK to go ahead and spend the money on that fishing trip.

   People have had years to get ready. If they chose to put it off until the last minute in the hope that they wouldn't have to do anything about it, that's their problem and their responsibility. If I had hired one of those firms to assist me with HR stuff, I'd be looking for someone else to replace them, someone who was actually living in reality.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ???????????

They said it was.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Do you think we should try to "organize them" so they can DEMAND $30 an hour, and el-primo healthcare ?

I'd settle for decent healthcare at their current wages.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 11):
They "should" be working for the best interests of the country, not going on a one-man vendetta because he's a liberal.

   If they'd been working for the good of the country instead of trying to sabotage laws that have already been passed, I'd bet that getting Obama out of office would have taken care of itself. Instead, they got their asses handed to them in 2012. And they really have nobody to blame but themselves.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

Obamacare will be a long term disaster! I know so many doctors personally who have stated this along with even more business owners. It's an economic killer.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently onlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2681 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
why on earth you move back to a "backwards country" like the U.S. ?

Careful now. That's not very patriotic of you. Of course, once a GOP president is elected, I'm sure this comment will vanish into thin air and the US will be a forward moving country, right?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 11):
Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ??????????? Who do YOU think they should have tried to keep from being elected ? Santa Claus ? Elvis ? ( They weren't running )

Bullcrap.

They "should" be working for the best interests of the country, not going on a one-man vendetta because he's a liberal.

   Why can't I like this comment?

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ??????????? Who do YOU think they should have tried to keep from being elected ? Santa Claus ? Elvis ? ( They weren't running )

Here's a familiar network where McConnell says so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FirI3_G_0JM

And here he is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc

And another very familiar face stating all her goals:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video...alin-obama-term-president-10313546

True, they want their party to win, but instead of sabotaging and getting into a constant gridlock with the other, perhaps had they worked presenting competent proposals, they might have retaken the Senate and perhaps the White House. Offering repeal after repeal, and saying "Let's work together" so then they can say "No, I don't want to work with you" is not the way.

Proof Obama invited Republicans to talks: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-07-obama-health-care_N.htm?csp=34



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1467 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
They were talking about Movie theater chains here.......so who works in "movie theaters " ?

Some are kids, many from homes at the bottom of the economic scale. Others are adults who need that job because that is all they can get.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Old lady selling tickets ?

Maybe she needs that job because no one else would hire "old people". At poverty wages YOU will still be paying all the benefits (like Food Stamps) that she will be getting. It's called Corporate Welfare and I'm sure you can find a justification for it.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
How much would YOU pay them if YOU owned the theater ?

If I couldn't pay at least a penny over the poverty line I wouldn't fill those jobs.

You don't have to pay $30 an hour to beat the Poverty Line.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
but I never see you coming down on THEM, because THEY support YOUR choice for POTUS

Well, let's see. I grew up in a conservative "oil business" home so I generally voted Republican. The FIRST time I voted for a Democrat was the First time Clinton won. WHy? Because of the obsessively conservative John Sanunu mentality that brought down Bush I. You might remember those days. It was when corporations were "down sizing" - getting rid of a lot of mid - level management and Bush I had a bunch of guys in his Administration who turned their back on them. I called it "eating their own" and that is why I voted for a Democrat in the White House.

Clinton did OK in his first term, except for Monica. That pissed me of, but then the GOP were far too obsessive in going after him. I can still remember some Senate Investigation where the Little Black Dress was handed from one old white guy to the next. I swear I thought they were fondling that dress and I was waiting for one old white guy to sniff it.

You wonder why Clinton was reelect? It was all those old white guys fondling that Little White Dress in their continual & obsessive attacks . The GOP simply didn't know when to stop.

I did vote for W the first time around. Then we had a totally unnecessary war (and, as a Vet, that really pissed me off) and my health insurance premiums doubled. Looked like W was President and Cheney was CEO. Looked pretty bad to me - no WMDs resulted in no support in the next election. I became an Independent for the 04 Election. 08? Ya gotta be kidding. Didn't you notice the Great Recession, the continual unnecessary wars, the Financial Crisis? THE GOP used to be the party you turned to for professional financial management. No longer - it is all about Greed these days.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
you have all somehow forgotten to blame George Bush for Obamacare !

W did do something to add to Medicare - he allowed the Pharma Industry to write the Prescription Drug program.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Everything is ALWAYS better in Australia according to you !

That is because it is the only country outside of the US where I have lived (8 years) and therefore the only country other than the US where I can make comments based on being there. I can say that the US health insurance premiums were 5 times the private Aussie premiums because I was paying both at the same time.

It's easy for folks to turn their nose up at other countries where they have no significant experience. I reference Australia because I do have experience there and I can make responsible comparisons. All I see from you is a belief that the US is better than any other country in every topic or area possible - makes me think that you have never lived in any other country.

BTW, everything isn't always better Down Under. They have problems just like every other county. It is, IMO, an excellent country to look at on how they address some issues, like health care and education. Not a bad place to look at for how employers treat truckies either.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
And you think the GOP's No. 1 "agenda" was to keep Obama from being elected ???????????

Senator "Botox" McConnell sure made that clear as soon as the President Obama moved into the White House.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Let me get this straight...........you think it's perfectly fine for Hollywood Schmucks to demand $10,000,000 for a few weeks "effort"

$10M isn't big money in Hollywood these days, but I could care less. You seem to be the one bringing up actors.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
.I love it !

Did they dare say anything else?

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Do you think we should try to "organize them" so they can DEMAND $30 an hour, and el-primo healthcare ?

I'm on record (multiple times) for believing that employer nanny care is a huge, and unnecessary, burden on the corporations in the US. I believe it should be taken out of company budgeting and the expense part of the P&L.

But then I worked for companies for 8 years that did not have that unnecessary albatross around their neck. Not having that boated, dead albatross allowed them to allocate funds elsewhere that were actually related to the success and growth of the companies. Hate to sound like a a businessman (which I was) but I believe that old, bloated, dead albatross should be buried.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
why on earth you move back to a "backwards country" like the U.S.

We moved back to Tulsa to take care of my Father who was dying of cancer.

That a good enough answer for you, Hot Shot? Or do you have some folksy slander you can throw at that reason.

Because I married an Aussie I have worked had over the years to ensure that she was able to stay close to her family. That meant pulling up stakes and moving half way around the world, but my wife is worth it.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 1):
So glad we have our next dose of controversy.

Spoken like a true liberal ! (Chomski will be proud of you) and your link; is that really the best you can do ?

Sebelius looking like hattie the witch.........and the "lovely" Barbra Mikulski looking like..........she ALWAYS does; -TERRIBLE !

You put a blog by Matthew Yglesias and YOU are just GREAT; I post a link to a REAL journalist, and you accuse me of starting "controversy" ?

What YOU haven't figured out yet is, this Obamination of a law is going to HURT YOU, much, much more than it's going to hurt ME; and you sure don't have to take my word for it; you're about to find out....first hand.



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4356 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
They were talking about Movie theater chains here.......so who works in "movie theaters " ? Ushers ? Kids selling pop corn and candy bars ? Old lady selling tickets ? How much would YOU pay them if YOU owned the theater ? $25 an hour maybe ? What your self-rightious bluster has already failed to mention is, the "product" that movie theaters sell, has already been priced out of it's market by GREEDY, "look at me" idiot "movie stars" who half the time can't remember who fathered their last kid, and think THEY should be paid $10,000,000 per picture because THEY are so "important";

Wow!! Simultaneously arguing for and against free market determination of wages! You never fail to impress, Geezer, i'll give you that.

Hate to break it to you, but movie stars are like everyone else. Actually, they were everyone else, until they became movie stars. Some don't care about anything but money. Some, after they're financially secure will prioritize their art or make less than their market value with passion projects and favors. Some are smart, some are dumb as rocks. Some down to earth, some that will never come back down to earth. Ultimately, who are you to tell someone they should make less money than they could be making? If i'm judging a person, I care much more about their stewardship of such riches than their gall to crave money that someone will pay them.

And yeah, as already stated, you clearly know nothing about the entertainment industry. You think it's built on a foundation of tabloid rumors, liposuction and big sunglasses. The American entertainment industry has no rival. I can't think of a single industry which has dominated the worldwide market for so long. You think of it as a great place to insert your political grudes and bias into. I don't care what you like to watch on TV, or if you go to movies. I don't care what you read in US weekly, Charley, all these people will come and go with their 15 minutes. What won't fade are the hundreds of thousands of hard working fellow Americans of yours diligently to further the craft, forming the backbone which makes all of this possible. We entertain the world. And if you look beyond your superficial judgments, you'll discover through the good and bad, it has been a tremendous American success story and point of pride.

[Edited 2013-05-26 22:04:56]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1428 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 18):
You put a blog by Matthew Yglesias and YOU are just GREAT; I post a link to a REAL journalist, and you accuse me of starting "controversy" ?

Hmm, your whole raison d'être, in thread after thread, has come into focus. Now the reason 'why' for all of your rants has become crystal clear. I've seen this play out once before.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 15):
It's an economic killer.

...Largely because both the White House and Congress have been completely ineffectual with regard to cost escalation over the last decade at a minimum.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 18):
Spoken like a true liberal ! (Chomski will be proud of you) and your link; is that really the best you can do ?

Chomsky is an anarchist, but sorry, don't let facts get in the way of a good label.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1808 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):

wasn't possible because the GOP's #1 agenda was to ensure Obama wasn't elected

This is the number 1 agenda of any political party. If the situation was reversed, do you honestly believe the democrats would be more interested in getting elected or to ensure the best interests of the public? This is the problem with the political system in general where people run under a blanket "Liberal" or "Conservative" banner.


User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Clinton did OK in his first term, except for Monica. That pissed me of, but then the GOP were far too obsessive in going after him. I can still remember some Senate Investigation where the Little Black Dress was handed from one old white guy to the next. I swear I thought they were fondling that dress and I was waiting for one old white guy to sniff it.

You wonder why Clinton was reelect? It was all those old white guys fondling that Little White Dress in their continual & obsessive attacks . The GOP simply didn't know when to stop.

   Not that disagree with you, but a few points. 1) it was a blue dress   and 2) all that broke during the second term, early in 1998.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):

Dude we CAN hear you. No NEED to keep SHOUTING.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
Paying wages below the poverty line ? They were talking about Movie theater chains here.......so who works in "movie theaters " ? Ushers ? Kids selling pop corn and candy bars ? Old lady selling tickets ? How much would YOU pay them if YOU owned the theater ? $25 an hour maybe ? What your self-rightious bluster has already failed to mention is, the "product" that movie theaters sell, has already been priced out of it's market by GREEDY, "look at me" idiot "movie stars" who half the time can't remember who fathered their last kid, and think THEY should be paid $10,000,000 per picture because THEY are so "important";

Don't like an actor's salary? Then don't go see his or her movie. The same deal with athletes. Don't like their salaries? Then don't pay the obnoxious ticket prices to watch a game, or add onto the ratings that result in TV advertising dollars. I can say with absolute certainty that many of the people I grew up around bang on all day about the salaries people get paid like it's some scandal. God forbid, however, that they miss The Dawgs or Crimson tide on a Saturday, or the Falcons on a Sunday, or that precious Lakers game, be it in person or on television. The problem is priorities.



User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 23):
The problem is priorities.

Wow. What a map. That says everything wrong with American higher education in one fell swoop.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 25, posted (10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1245 times:

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 24):
Wow. What a map. That says everything wrong with American higher education in one fell swoop.

While I agree in principle, don't forget that coaches help teams win that bring in tons of money for the school that can go to educational programs. Or at least I think that's how it's supposed to work...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 26, posted (10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 25):
Or at least I think that's how it's supposed to work...

Really not so surprising that it doesn't...

This revenue rarely makes its way back to the general funds of these universities. Looking at data from 2011-2012, athletic departments at 99 major schools lost an average of $5 million once you take out revenue generated from "student fees" and "university subsidies." If you take out "contributions and donations"—some of which might have gone to the universities had they not been lavished on the athletic departments—this drops to an average loss of $17 million, with just one school (Army) in the black. All this football/basketball revenue is sucked up by coach and AD salaries, by administrative and facility costs, and by the athletic department's non-revenue generating sports; it's not like it's going to microscopes and Bunsen burners.

http://deadspin.com/infographic-is-y...ghest-paid-employee-a-co-489635228

Have your own fun with the data and see if you can find any schools in the black with these programs:

http://b2.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=900c1000ea466e223e104a22814a



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1789 posts, RR: 10
Reply 27, posted (10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 26):
Have your own fun with the data and see if you can find any schools in the black with these programs:

I had a few minutes of fun with the data. I copied all the 2011 data to an Excel file and found the total that all 119 schools spent that year. Anybody want to guess how much it is?

Hint: it could cover healthcare for A LOT of people

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 25):
While I agree in principle, don't forget that coaches help teams win that bring in tons of money for the school that can go to educational programs. Or at least I think that's how it's supposed to work...

I guess T. Boone Pickens and OSU didn't get that memo. OSU is still a mediocre school with a mediocre football team after $400 million in donations.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 28, posted (10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1203 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):
Anybody want to guess how much it is?

Afraid to ask...but...how much?



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4356 posts, RR: 27
Reply 29, posted (10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 27):

I guess T. Boone Pickens and OSU didn't get that memo. OSU is still a mediocre school with a mediocre football team after $400 million in donations.

To be fair, 2011 season had to have been the best in school history, winning the Fiesta Bowl and finishing #3 in the country. They've certainly made strides and had their moments in football recently.

But anyway, the 'haves' in college athletics usually run self sustaining programs that can be very profitable and spill over to other areas of the university. Trouble is, everyone wants to have this success, and there becomes a lot of athletic money pits at 'aspiring' universities.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1789 posts, RR: 10
Reply 30, posted (10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 28):
Afraid to ask...but...how much?

Counting everything except ticket sales (because I doubt those people would spend that money on education or healthcare versus a football game): $19,143,835,469

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 29):
To be fair, 2011 season had to have been the best in school history, winning the Fiesta Bowl and finishing #3 in the country. They've certainly made strides and had their moments in football recently.

It all kind of went to hell this year though.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4356 posts, RR: 27
Reply 31, posted (10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1170 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 30):
It all kind of went to hell this year though.

I assure you, winning conference record and bowl game/win is not college football hell.

It's a solid, stable program and there is no doubt TBP has seen a return on his investment in the schools athletics.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3841 posts, RR: 14
Reply 32, posted (10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 9):
but that anyone brazen enough to invest millions of dollars in a restaurant chain, (or any other business that employees high school drop outs ), should PAY said drop outs wages equal to the CEO of said greedy company,

Geezer, just so you can get your facts straight: the job market right now is so horrible for Generation Y that plenty of retail workers, waitstaff and bartenders have not only graduated from high school, but have college degrees as well (I believe this would fall into the professions you are attempting to criticize as being populated by high school dropouts)--students that are loaded with debt from attending school that they thought would secure them a better future.

If you are indeed a Geezer as your name suggests, you should be sending everyone under the age of 35 a thank you note for contributing to your government issued welfare in the form of social security taxes, a program that they themselves have no hope of benefiting from.

Before you chastise me for being a typical liberal, know that I have always been against the Obamacare bill, both for ideological reasons and because it's such a massive bill that even those that voted in favor of it can't tell you all of its provisions.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 33, posted (10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1166 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 32):
If you are indeed a Geezer as your name suggests, you should be sending everyone under the age of 35 a thank you note for contributing to your government issued welfare in the form of social security taxes, a program that they themselves have no hope of benefiting from.

I can't speak for Geezer, but not all elderly owe everyone else gratitude. I remember when my grandfather retired in the late 70s. He was born in poverty, grew up during the depression, and ended up making himself a pretty nice lifestyle. Suddenly he started getting Social Security checks, and he was offended. He didn't need those checks. He tried to convince the SSA to stop sending them for several years, but they insisted that they had to give him money by law. Finally he gave up, and simply would endorse the SS check every month to his church and gave it to them.

This self-respect is something that is disappearing in modern society. The modern attitude is more like, "Well everyone else is getting something, why not me?"



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 34, posted (10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1157 times:

^ Begs the question: who raised the current entitlement generation and taught them to think that way?


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 33):
This self-respect is something that is disappearing in modern society.

Your grandfather, like my father, was very fortunate when you look at their overall situation.

In terms of Social Security, however, I believe he was wrong to try to have the checks stopped - turning them over to a church or charity was the appropriate action. The reason I say that is pretty simple - it is critical that Social Security be maintained as an investment that people with a job make while they are working - and the monthly payments on retirement are simply the return on that investment.

The reason I consider this important is that very few people (asa percentage of our population) are as fortunate as your grandfather. Anything, at any time, could have put his life in a 180 direction. Take a look at Polio in the Fifties:

Iron Lung


Lots of decent, hard working people (just like your grandfather) ended up in those iron lungs.

Because there are so many elderly in this country who are struggling to make ends meet we need something that they can receive without calling it charity. They paid their contributions and their monthly check is based on how much they paid. THAT is how they can retain their self respect in this modern society.


User currently offlineRightRudder From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

Sorry about previous post. Had trouble with the cache.

This article talks about the employer-end of the Affordable Care Act, but it doesn't say much about the employees that will also have to pay a tax penalty. To the best of my knowledge, since it is not mandatory for smaller companies (

[Edited 2013-05-28 02:34:11]


"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2564 posts, RR: 7
Reply 37, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 961 times:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-exchange-announces-premium-rates/

I just *thought* it MIGHT be a good idea to THROW this *article* from a *lamestream," oops "MAINSTREAM" publication out there.

Now get outta my yard.   


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 38, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 945 times:

Quoting johnboy (Reply 37):
I just *thought* it MIGHT be a good idea to THROW this *article* from a *lamestream," oops "MAINSTREAM" publication out there.

Same basic thing happening here in Oregon, only insurance companies asking if they can re-file lower rates, after seeing how high they were in relation to other companies. Didn't see that on the front page of Fox News though. Wonder why that is?   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 929 times:

Quoting johnboy (Reply 37):
I just *thought* it MIGHT be a good idea to THROW this *article* from a *lamestream," oops "MAINSTREAM" publication out there.

Pretty impressive stuff there. Looks like competition is strong in California and the Obama Haters are looking WAY outta touch with reality.

Good news for those states - maybe now we can let those insurers offer the same policies at the same price in every state, over-riding the states programs.

From the article you linked:

Quote:

“The Congressional Budget Office predicted back in November 2009 that a medium-cost plan on the health exchange – known as a “silver plan” – would have an annual premium of $5,200. A separate report from actuarial firm Milliman projected that, in California, the average silver plan would have a $450 monthly premium.”

The actual costs?

Kliff continues, “On average, the most affordable “silver plan” – which covers 70 percent of the average subscriber’s medical costs – comes with a $276 monthly premium. For the 2.6 million Californians who will receive federal subsidies, the price is a good deal less expensive…”

That $276 a month is about $100 above the monthly cost of Medicare, which covers 80% of most charges. There are going to be a lot of Americans around the country who look at those numbers and their own costs and demand to know why they have to pay so much more.

Maybe we can move to more sanity and maybe the GOP will even join in the efforts.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
A Bunch Of Parsley For The Freedom Of Speech posted Thu Feb 28 2013 08:40:30 by TS-IOR
The Naming Of Winter Snowstorms posted Thu Feb 7 2013 14:37:31 by dragon-wings
The Return Of The What Are You Listening To Now! posted Wed Jan 30 2013 12:35:38 by Ps762
Ever Been The Subject Of Homophobia/ Racism/ Etc? posted Wed Dec 19 2012 18:28:36 by zrs70
The Surface Of Jupiter And Other Gas/Ice Giants posted Fri Dec 14 2012 20:53:47 by 2707200X
RIP Sir Patrick Moore At The Age Of 89 posted Sun Dec 9 2012 05:14:37 by OA260
The Risk Of Getting Kids posted Sun Dec 9 2012 01:11:47 by steffenbn
The Danger Of Eating Chocolate posted Fri Nov 30 2012 23:26:41 by Geezer
The Concept Of Socialism: Opinions? posted Tue Nov 13 2012 20:55:07 by Dreadnought
The Fallout Of WSU (Cougars) Football posted Tue Nov 13 2012 14:35:26 by AirframeAS