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Top 10 Countries With The Highest Oil Reserve  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9210 posts, RR: 15
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Anyone has the list?

I guess USA has the most followed by Canada? What about Saudi Arabia and Iraq?

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

List of countries by proven oil reserves


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Venezuela has the most??! Bloody hell. What a supreme example of mis-management.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):

OMG. that is the BEST way of providing a link I've seen. My month is complete.


User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
Venezuela has the most??! Bloody hell. What a supreme example of mis-management.

Most oil rich countries with nothing else going on (industry, services etc.) have a large part of their population in poverty, at least in Venezuela they get educated and have health care.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineidealstandard From France, joined Apr 2009, 411 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 4):
Most oil rich countries with nothing else going on (industry, services etc.) have a large part of their population in poverty, at least in Venezuela they get educated and have health care.

hear hear


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Venezuela has a HUGE reserve of heavy oil in the Orinoco Basin. Would require a big investment to recover, then to upgrade to a quality that most refineries could handle.

I'm wondering if the Canadian figures take into account the oil sands...probably, as our 'regular' reserves have been exploited for around 65 years now. But there may be shale oil as well, likely not accounted for - same as USA.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2344 times:
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Quoting connies4ever (Reply 6):
Venezuela has a HUGE reserve of heavy oil in the Orinoco Basin. Would require a big investment to recover, then to upgrade to a quality that most refineries could handle.

Given that Venezuela appropriated all the US oil company's assets in the country, I don't see them getting much help to develop it.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlinevoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
Given that Venezuela appropriated all the US oil company's assets in the country, I don't see them getting much help to develop it.

Valid point but that happened with traditional oil companies whose bottom line is their own bottom line. If the Chinese, or other, state oil companie(s) are interested in contracted development rather than extraction of profit as part of a broader strategic plan, that fear of nationalization may not hold.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1892 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 6):
I'm wondering if the Canadian figures take into account the oil sands...probably, as our 'regular' reserves have been exploited for around 65 years now. But there may be shale oil as well, likely not accounted for - same as USA.

Venezuela also has oil sands, of a size comparable to the Athabascan fields.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orinoco_oil_sands


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2309 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
Venezuela has the most??! Bloody hell. What a supreme example of mis-management.

Why is this an example of mis-management?  

It's a wise decision not to digg immediately for all the existing sources.It also stabilizes the prices.

[Edited 2013-07-04 05:47:06]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

I love how people talk about topics they know nothing about and form conclusions based on that lack of knowledge to fit their preconcieved notions.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):

No one even knew how to develop oil sands only a few years ago. Venezuelan conventional oil, much of which is medium/heavy/extra heavy might consist of 40-60+ billion barrels. The rest is oil sands and requires extreme processing. Even extra heavy oil does not flow through pipelines without being heated. It is like sludge, sand, and grit.

This is why KSA can achieve flow rates in excess of 10 Mb/d while Venezuela maxes out at ~2.75-3 Mb/d.

Saudi oil is mostly light and medium, with some heavy.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 6):

Yes up to date figures for Canada include oil sands. Canada should end up over 200 billion barrels.

I could go on and on, but this is a decent primer:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...f_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 10):
Why is this an example of mis-management?

I'm thinking RJ meant mis-management of Venezuela in general...

Interesting to see Libya at no. 9. Small population of 6 million, properly managed and with Gaddafi gone they could live well.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 11):
I could go on and on, but this is a decent primer:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...erves

That goes to the same place as the link I gave out. Was there a different page you wanted to link?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 4):
Most oil rich countries with nothing else going on (industry, services etc.) have a large part of their population in poverty, at least in Venezuela they get educated and have health care.

I see that, but then we're not talking about a country with plenty of oil, we're talking about the one with the MOST.

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 10):
Why is this an example of mis-management?

It's a wise decision not to digg immediately for all the existing sources.It also stabilizes the prices.

Because even if you don't dig immediately for all of it, the fact is that the country is extremely oil-rich, and yet is a complete and utter mess. The two things might not be exactly linked, but it's reasonable to surmise that the country with the largest oil reserves in the world probably shouldn't ever run out of toilet roll, for example.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 12):
I'm thinking RJ meant mis-management of Venezuela in general...

  



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
The two things might not be exactly linked, but it's reasonable to surmise that the country with the largest oil reserves in the world probably shouldn't ever run out of toilet roll, for example.

I'm not so sure. I lived in Libya in the 80s and you couldn't buy toilet roll. They simply ran out. People started stealing it from hotels; you issued your guests with 3 sheets only if they needed to use your facilities. It even came down to 1/4 dinar notes. It was pretty bad for a while I can tell you.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 15):
I'm not so sure. I lived in Libya in the 80s and you couldn't buy toilet roll. They simply ran out. People started stealing it from hotels; you issued your guests with 3 sheets only if they needed to use your facilities. It even came down to 1/4 dinar notes. It was pretty bad for a while I can tell you.

I'm not suggesting it's unique, but it definitely shouldn't happen - I'm sure you'd agree with that, having experienced it yourself. There are many examples of oil-rich countries who fail to use their considerable wealth properly for the benefit of the people. Nigeria springs to mind as another prime example.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 12):

Well, despite what our media are telling us, they were doing quite well before the war. High litteracy rate. Best human development index in Africa. Ranking 48 in the world. Better than Russia...

Of course, it is hard to believe after the Western media machine has done its demonizing work of the last two years but you can look it up...


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2183 times:
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Quoting connies4ever (Reply 6):
I'm wondering if the Canadian figures take into account the oil sands...probably, as our 'regular' reserves have been exploited for around 65 years now. But there may be shale oil as well, likely not accounted for - same as USA.

The problem with oil sands and shale vs traditional crude is the return per ton after refining, the Orinoco reserves are highly variable in that measure to date, but no large scale exploitation has yet taken place to get a good baseline. The Athabaskan tar sands on the other hand are a known value.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 17):
Well, despite what our media are telling us, they were doing quite well before the war. High litteracy rate. Best human development index in Africa. Ranking 48 in the world. Better than Russia...

Of course, it is hard to believe after the Western media machine has done its demonizing work of the last two years but you can look it up...

Well that's precisely why the war happened (and the revolution in Tunisia), educated people don't want to live in a dictatorship.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
Well that's precisely why the war happened (and the revolution in Tunisia), educated people don't want to live in a dictatorship.

That can explain why there were some protests after the Tunisian upheaval. However these protests were not powerful enough to really bring Gaddafi down (probably because many more Libyans than we were led to believe were quite content with the state of affairs - as people usually are in other petromonarchies).

And then Western powers decided to get rid of Gaddafi without any relations to the level of education or well-being there. And you can be sure it's going to go down.

I am a little bit unsettled that people fall so easily for the "democracy vs dictature" mumbo jumbo that Western powers tout every time they intervene somewhere. Do Western powers care about democracy in Saudi Arabia? In Bahrein? Or before the Arab Spring in Egypt, Tunisia or Syria? Not at all...

Libya has been plunged into civil war because it served Western powers interest and that Gaddafi was a little too tough in his negotiations to sell his ressources to the West. I think you should take a step back from everything that we hear everytime war is on the menu. It is 90% balloney.


User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 20):

With respect, I lived there for 8 years and still have quite a few Libyan friends, so I have some clue when it comes to Libya. Without question, ALL of them feel Libya is better without Gaddafi, and the country is absolutely not about to break down into civil war. Obviously after 40 years of the Colonel there are bound to be serious issues.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2040 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 20):
That can explain why there were some protests after the Tunisian upheaval. However these protests were not powerful enough to really bring Gaddafi down (probably because many more Libyans than we were led to believe were quite content with the state of affairs - as people usually are in other petromonarchies).

And then Western powers decided to get rid of Gaddafi without any relations to the level of education or well-being there. And you can be sure it's going to go down.

I am a little bit unsettled that people fall so easily for the "democracy vs dictature" mumbo jumbo that Western powers tout every time they intervene somewhere. Do Western powers care about democracy in Saudi Arabia? In Bahrein? Or before the Arab Spring in Egypt, Tunisia or Syria? Not at all...

Libya has been plunged into civil war because it served Western powers interest and that Gaddafi was a little too tough in his negotiations to sell his ressources to the West. I think you should take a step back from everything that we hear everytime war is on the menu. It is 90% balloney.

Of course he did declare war on his own people. But whatever...


User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting offloaded (Reply 21):
With respect, I lived there for 8 years and still have quite a few Libyan friends, so I have some clue when it comes to Libya. Without question, ALL of them feel Libya is better without Gaddafi, and the country is absolutely not about to break down into civil war. Obviously after 40 years of the Colonel there are bound to be serious issues.

I've never lived there nor do I have friends there. I respect that you do. I'm just quoting the United Nations' HDI (Human Development Index). I sure hope it will move up from 48 but I have my doubts if Iraq is any sign. The mere idea that after Iraq, Western powers can think that their interventions will do more good than harm and that plenty of government worshipping citizens still believe them "no questions asked" is mind boggling to me.

The hypocrisy of Western governments knows no bound as the Bahrein and Saudi Arabia examples shows when it comes to democracy. One thing is sure, like in Iraq, ressources will be flowing towards our shores. But this idea that we're doing it "for the good of the people there" is preposterous. It is quite certain Libyan people will get less from their ressources than they used to. Gaddafi was asking too much of a cut on "OUR NATURAL RESSOUCES". And I'm not even getting into the personal issues between Sarkozy and Gaddafi that really could in an instant make every cheerleader like a dimwits (Sarkozy is very seriously suspected of having received Libyan funding for his 2007 election and many suspect in France it has played a huge role in his objective of taking Gaddafi down after things went sour). What do war cheeleaders have to say about this one? They are a sorry bunch being manipulated with "Human Rights" rhetoric while some politicians get bigger swimming pools. Very sad.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 22):
Of course he did declare war on his own people. But whatever...

God how I wish I could trust my government and my media to always do/say the right thing like you do. I'm sure you live a happy life. What exactly does "declare war on his own people" even mean? You're just repeating some pro-war talking point without even being aware of it. Wake up.

[Edited 2013-07-05 05:59:38]

User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 23):
God how I wish I could trust my government and my media to always do/say the right thing like you do.

If you've ever interacted with me you'll notice i'm one of the most anti-government people on here. Whilst here you are defending an oppressive, authoritarian regime that ruled by the sword.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8774 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Oil (and oil money) are generally a tragedy for most countries that have it.

What are the very talented people of Venezuela and Saudi Arabia contributing to the world???

Pretty much nothing?

Meanwhile, Japan, with near zero resources, achieved a lot.

Energy is primarily good news for the people who buy it. It gives them security and the ability to plan.

Countries like Canada and Norway do fairly well with oil. Largely because they became developed/modern before oil money had the chance to ruin their institutions.

[Edited 2013-07-05 08:44:57]

User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 24):
If you've ever interacted with me you'll notice i'm one of the most anti-government people on here.

Good for you. But then I would suggest you'd be a little more suspicious of the government's motives whenever it tells you it wants to go to war. "War is the health of the state" as they say. If you dislike big government, first target its war policies because it is always how it grows by orders of magnitude. Look a Homeland Security for instance.
Saddam Hussein is the new "Hitler of the day", then Gaddafi, then Assad. Each time we go through the exact same motions and the media demonize yesterday's friends. Sarkozy even hosted Gaddafi and Assad in Paris early in his mandate!

Very often, if you dig a little, you'll see that the "evidence" and the "massacres" and all the rhetoric is based on very flimsy evidence and I'm being generous here. WMDs for Hussein, avoiding massacres in Benghazi for Gaddafi (I mean by that metric you can start a war anytime anywhere in the world - which is pretty much what is happening). And now this "Assad used chemical weapons in Syria". Now why would Assad do such a thing very sporadically as it does not give him any strategic advantage? Just to make Cameron and Hollande happy by handing them a casus belli on a silver platter? Oh but our media won't balk at that, because it is assumed that Assad, Gaddafi or Hussein are stupid and/or just plain "mean". Give me a break. This is all a cartoon.

I apologize for the tone but l think overall people should be A LOT more inquisitive and skeptical when it comes to war and peace.


User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting A380900 (Reply 26):
Good for you. But then I would suggest you'd be a little more suspicious of the government's motives whenever it tells you it wants to go to war. "War is the health of the state" as they say. If you dislike big government, first target its war policies because it is always how it grows by orders of magnitude. Look a Homeland Security for instance.

You're tilting at windmills. I was against intervention in Libya, as i am with all tax-funded wars that don't concern the defence of the country i live in.

Never the less your attempts to defend Qaddaffi are preposterous.


User currently offlinecybergus From Venezuela, joined Mar 2006, 511 posts, RR: 10
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 4):
Most oil rich countries with nothing else going on (industry, services etc.) have a large part of their population in poverty, at least in Venezuela they get educated and have health care.

Which Venezuela are you talking about? Please document a little bit more and bring some substantial proofs to your statement. The programs in education and health founded by the government of Mr. Chavez have been a disaster. They have been put in the spot for being inefficient and a smart way of gaining popularity for the re-election...but that's it. Most of the people know that the education provided by the social missions is a joke. Instead of investing in the public education sector they decided to create a mission that will get you a diploma in a few months but with the lack of the mere sense of what it should be taught. On the health sector happens the same thing. Public hospitals and infrastructure is falling in pieces. Doctors in the public sector are not being paid. The materials for the practice are inexistent. Instead of injecting money to what was already in bad shape, they decided to bring foreign doctors to do individual practice in the neighborhoods. I think that if you spend 5 years of your life studying medicine in Venezuela to find out that they rather get Cubans doctor you probably won't think the way you think right now.

Venezuelan government know they are floating in oil and they know that until they get that they will be able to hold all this ridiculous corrupt missions that are just a makeup of the amount of dollars they are stealing in the background for their personal accounts. Venezuela is not only the country with the most reserves but also the country with the cheapest gas prices ($ 0.10 per gallon). Its cheaper to fill the tank of your car than to buy a bottle of coke. This is unacceptable in the current world as most of the countries know that gas prices should be equivalent to the current economy. Even Saudi Arabia and other oil countries have decent gas prices but not a joke as the ones in Venezuela. The reason the government don't raise such price is that they know the day they do that all the popularity they get from the fake missions will go straight to the sink and a riot will take them out.



LAN Excellence in Flight
User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2826 posts, RR: 18
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1864 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
What are the very talented people of Venezuela and Saudi Arabia contributing to the world???

Pretty much nothing?

What a sad and/or arrogant statement to make from someone so young as to not have experienced the world.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):
Energy is primarily good news for the people who buy it. It gives them security and the ability to plan.

A rather naive statement. You're too young to remember the 1973 oil shock when OPEC basically brought the USA to it's knees, leading to the 1973-74 stock market crash. Turn off the taps or even turn them down and watch the USA get into serious trouble if gas prices went north of $5 a gallon. Canada today is just shy of that mark while the EU is already upwards of $8 per gallon. You can pretend the days of cheap energy will go on forever, but reality says you're in for a very rude shock, likely within your lifetime.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
Given that Venezuela appropriated all the US oil company's assets in the country, I don't see them getting much help to develop it.

It's not like they are going at it on their own...

http://caracaschronicles.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/orinoco-belt-map-pdvsa.jpg
Let's just say they decided to seek partnerships with countries less prone to invading others over resources

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
I see that, but then we're not talking about a country with plenty of oil, we're talking about the one with the MOST.

As stated, most of the oil is hard to extract and process but it will become even more viable as the light oil reserves from the Middle East are depleted.

Quoting cybergus (Reply 28):

My goodness, no wonder you guys can't make any progress. Such a massive display of lack of knowledge...

How ironic seeing a person who has no idea of what he is talking about tell others they don't have any idea.
Ironic and sad...


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 25):

I guess I'd comment that the Arabic-Hindu numeral system has already contributed greatly to how the whole world works. I'd also say that has and still does contribute a lot. Not to rest on long-ago laurels, they also still contribute some fabulous foodstuffs.

BTW, there was a topic not long ago on this subject; there is a great difference in classifications between "independent companies" located in specific countires and "state-owned/runned entities" like OPEC that can juggle their figures any which way they choose. IIRC, Venezuela is an OPEC member, no? regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 10):
It's a wise decision not to digg immediately for all the existing sources.It also stabilizes the prices.

It's not so much sparing your supply as it is discovering more and more as you go. The Orinoco oil basin was found to have plenty of oil only a few years ago. And as it has been said: considering that Saudi oil is lighter than Venezuelan oil, I wouldn't be surprised that, in addition to having the top spot on proven oil reserves for years to come, when oil reaches a critical point where many other exporters have completely ceased their exports, Venezuela will still be pumping oil. That being said, it would be interesting to see if countries will have moved towards renewable, clean, efficient energy.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

Quoting photopilot (Reply 29):
Turn off the taps or even turn them down and watch the USA get into serious trouble if gas prices went north of $5 a gallon. Canada today is just shy of that mark while the EU is already upwards of $8 per gallon.

Gas in Vancouver area right now is $1.43/liter which is more than $5/USgallon -- but gasoline in Canada (and most other places) is taxed at a pretty high rate. That accounts for most of the difference with the US -- not all of of it, but most of it. Gas prices in North America will be high enough when no one can afford to run an SUV any more.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1655 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 11):
I love how people talk about topics they know nothing about and form conclusions based on that lack of knowledge to fit their preconcieved notions.

I recommend you do a little research before blasting somebody for commenting on what is common knowledge in the oil industry. It is a proven fact that Venezualen oil production has fallen 25% since 1997 even while prices rose. Just about the time Cavez took over and is indeed a direct result of negligence and mis-management. The people running PDVSA are inept and in charge only because they were Chavez supporters. Bad news for a country which relies on oil for 50% of all revenue.



User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 34):

Thank you, but yes I know Venezuelan oil production has fallen. Not due to the reasons you have given I am afraid. That is your own conclusion, and is up for debate. There are actually a multitude of technical...not political...reasons why their production has fallen off. Exhaustion/decline of old conventional reservoirs being one.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 18):
The problem with oil sands and shale vs traditional crude is the return per ton after refining, the Orinoco reserves are highly variable in that measure to date, but no large scale exploitation has yet taken place to get a good baseline. The Athabaskan tar sands on the other hand are a known value.

Currently in Alberta it's about 1/3 BOE to get a barrel of oil, energy-wise. If the operators chose to switch to newer technology, this energy input cost would fall by half, as would CO2 production. Admittedly this would cost billions.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 34):
It is a proven fact that Venezualen oil production has fallen 25% since 1997 even while prices rose. Just about the time Cavez took over and is indeed a direct result of negligence and mis-management.

Chavez came to power 1998. I was there during the election campaign. Quite the colourful time !



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8774 posts, RR: 3
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1581 times:

Quoting photopilot (Reply 29):
What a sad and/or arrogant statement to make from someone so young as to not have experienced the world.

You'll have to try to excuse my poor taste and possible mental insanity. Youth or any lack of travel are not excuses I can utilize  

Maybe the original point is not so terribly controversial; so it is a shame I made it so badly. Oil revenue -- and the oil business -- can be, and often is, a tragedy for those who have it. Rule of law is much more important than having oil.

Unfortunately, oil tempts government ministers to destroy rule of law to keep all the money. It also gives them the financial means to stay in power forever, in spite of their people's needs.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 37):
Unfortunately, oil tempts government ministers to destroy rule of law to keep all the money. It also gives them the financial means to stay in power forever, in spite of their people's needs.

I see.  Wow!

This explains all our political issues in Canada. I did not realise we were living in a dictatorship. Things are rarely as straightforward as you might think.   



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3729 posts, RR: 3
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 35):
Thank you, but yes I know Venezuelan oil production has fallen. Not due to the reasons you have given I am afraid. That is your own conclusion, and is up for debate. There are actually a multitude of technical...not political...reasons why their production has fallen off. Exhaustion/decline of old conventional reservoirs being one.

Of course there are technical reasons why production has fallen, a primary one being their inability to develop Orinoco. And the reason why they have this slight technical problem? Because they threw out all their foreign partners with the knowledge after firing 19,000 PDVSA workers and replacing them with Chavez supporters. Both of those reasons were politically motivated. Then there is the string of recent accidents blamed on lack of re-investment in infrastructure. And yes, that does fall under the definition of mismanagement. There is plenty more to talk about, I am simply out of time but claiming Venezuela's oil industry has not suffered at the hands of the Chavez is nothing but revisionism.

[Edited 2013-07-07 08:30:23]

User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1337 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
their inability to develop Orinoco.

This is ongoing. The infrastructure to develop this takes years, decades, to develop. You can't snap your fingers and do it. It is actually even more complex than Canadian oil sands.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
Because they threw out all their foreign partners with the knowledge after firing 19,000 PDVSA workers and replacing them with Chavez supporters.

No comment about PDVSA, but there are many foreign partners now. Except they aren't US, they are Chinese and European. I think this causes bitterness in the US oil industry.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39):
There is plenty more to talk about, I am simply out of time but claiming Venezuela's oil industry has not suffered at the hands of the Chavez is nothing but revisionism.

Somewhere in the middle.

The important fact for the whole world is that they are moving forward with development. Even if US companies don't profit, the US as a whole will benefit from market stability.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1306 times:

I am (OK, I admit it, am not) surprised at the amount of animosity that a simple question of who has the largest proven supplies of oil can generate.

To a degree I am with Pelligrine here, in that oil reserves and economical fields are different things. There may be billions of barrels per day potential but if the resource is difficult to access, costly to refine and incompetative in the market, I think that it is best to everyone leave it in the ground. This argument is not restricted to oil but is applied to every other resource. In Australia the example of reworking gold tailings is an example of how new technologies and new methods can convert an uneconomical process into a financially viable on can occur. No one is going to spend more to recover a resource than the resource is worth, if they are rational or unless political considerations come into play.

This might be one reason why some countries that have plentiful resources may yet have tremendous poverty or lack of basic requirements. Anecdotal evidence and even "official reports" might miss things if taken in isolation. Personally, I have never run out of toilet paper, even in countries where more hygenic methods are available, but I do recall that while working in England a few years ago a sugar shortage and a bacon shortage ocurred, despite North Sea oil being available. No doubt at the time the UK was on par with Venezuaela.  

In a general sense, if a person believes in private property and the free market as being the best guarantor of being an efficient then they have to accept that private interest outweighs public benefit. In some instances it may be completely opposed to it. They may be opposed to such an idea but it is true that what benefits me may not benefit anyone else. The real world does not comfortably match idealist philosophies.

There are those who favour a view that the government should intervention to ensure an equitable outcome. This is
anathema to free marketeers. It is this sort of talk that in the past has justified coups. Countries that were basically Nationalist and expressed the view that their resources should benefit their people were denounced as "Communist", and were subjected to a range of responses, ranging from investment strikes, desabilisations, funding of armed opposition to out right coups overthrowing elected governments. All in the name of freedom, of course.

So historically we can see that there is litlle corelation between the "wealth" of a country and the well-being of its citizens.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 41):
This might be one reason why some countries that have plentiful resources may yet have tremendous poverty or lack of basic requirements. Anecdotal evidence and even "official reports" might miss things if taken in isolation. Personally, I have never run out of toilet paper, even in countries where more hygenic methods are available, but I do recall that while working in England a few years ago a sugar shortage and a bacon shortage ocurred, despite North Sea oil being available. No doubt at the time the UK was on par with Venezuaela.  

Speaking about mismanagement and North Sea oil reserves, those two go hand in hand in a different sort of way. The UK rushed in the 80s to be an oil exporter and earn $ for that, now they are an oil importer $$$$. Frittered away, penny wise and pound foolish.



oh boy!!!
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