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How The GOP Could Gain Votes  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

So I was chatting with some folks over a couple beers, visiting Americans as it were, and we got to talking about the image problem the GOP has back home, and how they keep failing to secure both younger and independent voters. And it dawned on me: they need to steal the marijuana issue from the left, push it, and build a social movement around it as has been done with same-sex marriage. Democrats won't touch it (and haven't thus far) because they don't want to be seen as soft on crime. It's the perfect issue to galvanize the libertarian streak in a lot of independent voters.

And frankly, it just makes sense on so many levels, aside from potential tax revenue sourcing and reduction in street crime, there are broader social benefits too. Plenty of responsible, working adults use it recreationally all over the place, but are forced to be dishonest about it. Why should they be? This is an issue of individual liberty. The GOP is the best place to start separating this issue from the distracting and lame stigma of lazy potheads.

Question is, will/would they??


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Question is, will/would they??

No. Because the GOP is guided by (in the main) rich white guys who think it's entirely defensible to get whacked on Jim Beam, but taking a spliff is immoral. Because it's a drug, unlike Jim Beam.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2128 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

There already is a party that does much of what you suggest, they are called the Libertarian party.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
And it dawned on me: they need to steal the marijuana issue from the left, push it, and build a social movement around it as has been done with same-sex marriage.

The problem is that marijuana legalization does not have as much widespread support amongst the young and independent voters as gay marriage does, and frankly does not galvanize people as much gay marriage (which people can echo back to the civil rights movement, etc).

[Edited 2013-07-07 06:22:00]

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 2):
The problem is that marijuana legalization does not have as much widespread support amongst the young and independent voters as gay marriage does, and frankly does not galvanize people as much gay marriage (which people can echo back to the civil rights movement, etc).

   Agreed. Same-sex marriage is usually viewed as a civil/human rights issue. Legalisation of pot (or other products) is more viewed as a recognition of what is now de facto in our society. I think what's happened recently in Washington and (I believe) Colorado is progressive, but for most legislators is not top of mind.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
they need to steal the marijuana issue from the left,

Dennis Peron did that in 1998. When California briefly had open primaries, marijuana advocate Dennis Peron ran for the Republican gubernatorial primary. He lost to Dan Lungren who eventually lost to Grey Davis in the general election. Dennis Peron was the only Republican I had ever voted for until 2010.


The gay marriage issue has more attention because it has more money behind it than the marijuana issue. Ironically the marijuana issue almost always wins when it's on the ballot while the gay marriage issue almost always lose when it's on the ballot...



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Democrats won't touch it (and haven't thus far) because they don't want to be seen as soft on crime.

Actually, Democrats are the biggest supporters of legalizing pot. As far as crime goes, the argument is: people who do not need to be in jail will be released reducing crowding. It has opened up space in many urban jails around California by being soft on pot. But, the right has to be against it because Democrats are for it.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

Well gay marriage and abortion are both issues because of religion, and unless I'm mistaken the religions of the book aren't big fans of drugs either, so this will get nowhere until religion is booted off the GOP platform. Besides if they do that, the left will have no problem doing it too, so it will not be a differentiating factor.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Maybe not a bad idea, IMHO. I personally believe that the legal marjuana issue (and legal prostitution issue for that matter) suffers because of a lack of designing a tax system for it.

But that, in itself, makes no sense because politicians (Reps AND Dems) are very astute in designing ways to steal money from the public by creating new taxes.

As 'Fly says, almost every time the marijuana issue wins public support, so why not capitalize on it?? regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

In my opinion, the way for the GOP to gain massive numbers of votes and be virtually unstoppable is to embrace a group with strong values of religion, family, education and other such 'traditional' values.

Hispanics

Culturally, the traditional hispanics with families are much more aligned with values and issues the Republican party supports than the Democrats.

Just that a vocal minority in the party demonizes the illegals, especially illegal family members of legal immigrants/ birth right citizens. Very reasonable immigration reform plans by President Bush were shot down in the past decade by that minority.

Even if legal Hispanic voters agree almost 100% with the Republican party platform - they are not going to vote Republican if the party wants to send grandma back to Honduras.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2938 times:

"I support gay marijuana." -Emily Litella


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
The gay marriage issue has more attention because it has more money behind it than the marijuana issue.

Prop 8 ?? Tons of anti gay marriage money there.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
Well gay marriage and abortion are both issues because of religion, and unless I'm mistaken the religions of the book aren't big fans of drugs either, so this will get nowhere until religion is booted off the GOP platform.

Wine seems to be viewed quite favourably in the New Testament. Also by the Catholic church. But I guess alcohol isn't a drug now, is it ?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
Even if legal Hispanic voters agree almost 100% with the Republican party platform - they are not going to vote Republican if the party wants to send grandma back to Honduras.

It would be really cool if granny came back as a member of MS13.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

There is support for legalization/decriminalization of small amounts of pot from Libertarians, who are sometimes seen as right of the Conservatives/Republicans. I don't think many Republicans will support changes in pot law on the Federal and State level due in parts to the Religious right, the private jail industry, law enforcement support and a general attitude toward pot/drug users that = them to liberals.

More likely the Republicans will keep their basic policies of reducing government spending especially on the poor, reducing taxes especially on the upper and 'middle' classes, reducing government regulation, increasing/maintaining spending on the military and tough on 'law and order' issues. There are using their dominance in the states to rig election districts to keep them in power (of course, Democrats have done that in the past for generations). They have put the Democrats on the defensive side of these issues, along with social issues (abortion, gay rights, civil rights for non-whites). As a result, they have continued to gain voters toward them.

Eventually another major financial crash will happen, or enough people will not vote for the 2 major parties and move to the Libertarian, Green or more progressive parties who will offer a better balance of the above and other issues


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Prop 8 ?? Tons of anti gay marriage money there.

Tons of money on both sides of the issue.
Not much money on the marijuana issue yet it consistently wins in liberal and conservative states.
Can't say that about the gay marriage issue....

As far as Prop 8 goes, there was a lot of confusion and many people voted 'yes' thinking that they were voting in favor of gay marriage when it was the opposite.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
the private jail industry,

...and the public jails with their very influential prison guard union thugs.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Eventually another major financial crash will happen,

Impossible. Obama is in charge and we will have 8 years of Hillary as well....



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

The way for Republicans to win in 2016 would be to introduce a legislation that sentences Hillary Clinton a lifetime in prison, making her ineligible for candidacy. Unfortunately, Obama's DOJ and the Democrats in the Senate will do everything to give her an unfair advantage by rigging the election as they did in 2012.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinedreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8791 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
mpossible. Obama is in charge and we will have 8 years of Hillary as well....

Naw, she's not running due to health reasons. They found a brain tumor during her last colonoscopy.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Keep in mind, 11 million new illegals/criminals have been awarded US Citizenship last week. They'll reward the party in power (Democrats) for many years to come. The gay marriage issue is irrelevant to them knowing that they were the party that allowed them to jump ahead in line and be awarded citizenship.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, Obama's DOJ and the Democrats in the Senate will do everything to give her an unfair advantage by rigging the election as they did in 2012.

Did you mean 2008?
There were two unknown Democratic candidates that challenged Obama in the 2012 primaries and I voted for one of them (I forgot his name).

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 14):
They found a brain tumor during her last colonoscopy.

        



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

As to 2016, Democrats have a tough situation especially as to keeping the President's seat. As I noted above, the Republicans have policies views that are popular with enough voters, that force the Democrats into a defensive position and unable to come up with ones that will get them those lost voters. They need to find a moderate that the more liberal voting primary base will support but right now I don't know of any possible candidate. I don't think Hillary Clinton is the answer either, she has too much of a record, too connected to President Obama and her husband with their baggage.

Still the Republicans have a serious problem as well for the office of the President, they too need a moderate but also have a problem with primary voters who are dominated by radical right-Tea Party group. in 2008, McCain screwed himself with Palin as VP and didn't cover the base party voters and Obama got overwhelming support from non-white voters. In 2012 Romney came off as an uncaring rich guy that turned off many voters including economically falling white middle class voters. Not more Bushs either, 2 were enough. The possible candidates from Christie to TX's Perry just have too many problems to satisfy the base and the moderates needed to win.

Both parties may face issues from how 'Obamacare' works out or doesn't, if quality paying job creating improves or not, if the economy improves for the middle class or if go too far with social benefits cuts. Some may just say it is the Republicans turn in the top spot as want 'change'. Who know if a 3rd party either a progressive-liberal or a Tea Party/Libertarian one may develop that could skew the votes of either the Democrats or Republicans. Some voters may not be able to vote due to the recent changes by the Supreme Court on the Voting Rights Act or just not vote as believe it won't make a difference anyway. There could be another 9/11 like terror event in the USA with it's distortions. 2016 will be interesting election year.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):

Hillary will run and she will win. (unfortunately)
She will inherit all the fools that voted for B.O., the 11 million new fmr. illegals, newer college voters and the millions of more poor people that were once middle-class that will be lining up for government handouts. In fact, she may even pick up a few Romney voters of 2012.
I see Hillary winning by a larger margin than B.O.'s margins of 2008 and 2012.
Issues such as the economy and national security wont matter because too many people will be expecting some sort of handout and electing the first female President is too important for a lot of voters so logic again will be out the door.

Christie being governor of New Jersey is just a novelty. Just like Mitt Romney, he will not be able to win his home state and I doubt he would be able to expand on the 206 electoral votes Romney won.
America is headed towards a 1 party system (Democratic) and the fall of the country will be on their watch.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

The GOP could also gain a lot of votes if they started supporting gay marriage, abortion, etc. I'm not gonna deny that politics creates a lot of double standards and hypocrisy just to get votes, but that doesn't mean a party will just accept a policy that they are totally against in order to win. A lot of GOPers are against pot whether you're for or against its legalization.

I see them abandoning the least heart-felt issue(s) they have and/or abandoning the issues they know are lost causes. I don't think marijuana is a hot enough issue for them to accept legalization to save their skins



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3354 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
And it dawned on me: they need to steal the marijuana issue from the left, push it, and build a social movement around it as has been done with same-sex marriage.

I agree they should and one thing the GOP does much better that the p*ssy democrats is that they move the polls where the dems chase them.

Two points.
1) Republicans almost always side with corporate interests and the private prison industry is very powerful and will continue to lobby for DA's that will throw people in jail for pot possession who have no business going to jail.

Did you hear the story of the man in San Diego that was threatened with 13 years in jail for chalking the sidewalk of a few Bank of America branches. This prison lobby is behind asinine charges like this, thankfully he got off.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/loc...m-case-at-bank-of-america-branches

2) I am not sure the support of legalizing pot is on there on the right because those days of them keeping the government out you life as much as possible are long gone. Today's GOP wants the government out of their wallet but if up to them still would dictate who can marry and they are passing even more crazy abortion bills each week at the state level it seems.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Democrats won't touch it (and haven't thus far) because they don't want to be seen as soft on crime.

In DC there is no way that any law regarding the legalization of pot is going to pass and I would argue it is the republicans that would stop it for the reason I mentioned above. States (even centrist ones like Colorado) are legalizing it themselves and you will see more of them doing this in the coming years. However this is moot when federal law trumps state law and ignores the state law.

Look what happens in California, medicinal dispensaries get raided all the time.

If the GOP wants to gain votes power it has to become more libertarian. Which they are when it comes to money, however their lack of will to invest in anything such as a jobs program or infrastructure hurts them but makes sense simplifying regulations and the tax code are rational. They also need to stop trying to legislate women's rights and attacking immigrants (illegal or not), I know there are a lot of Republicans who believe a good chunk of what I just said and the biggest thing they can do is say is these extremist tea partiers are not representative of the GOP.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1):
No. Because the GOP is guided by (in the main) rich white guys who think it's entirely defensible to get whacked on Jim Beam, but taking a spliff is immoral. Because it's a drug, unlike Jim Beam.

Add those in to the Prison lobby.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Impossible. Obama is in charge and we will have 8 years of Hillary as well....

If the GOP runs a sensible person that runs on the points I mentioned above and doesn't run Ted Cruz or someone like him, then they have a shot. I would think someone like Bloomberg (without the soda limiting nonsense) or Rubio who sees the benefit to immigration. The answer is not going further to the right but have a good centre right option.

Saying all that politics has been become a game of extreme partisanship and that isn't just on the US side of the 49th parallel, it happens up here too. Many voters believe that not wanting to compromise and come of with a collective solution is a sign of weakness, to me this is huge stupidity and would not be tolerated in the business world or in a relationship.

I say lock them all of the capital and not let them out until a deal is reached.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
The GOP could also gain a lot of votes if they started supporting gay marriage, abortion, etc. I'm not gonna deny that politics creates a lot of double standards and hypocrisy just to get votes, but that doesn't mean a party will just accept a policy that they are totally against in order to win. A lot of GOPers are against pot whether you're for or against its legalization.

I think ultimately that the GOP has not lost enough elections to make any meaningful changes, maybe looking at successful right wing parties in other countries to compare themselves to, or just ask people not affiliated to them what they think !

If they lose the white house next time, then things will probably change.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2713 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
Keep in mind, 11 million new illegals/criminals have been awarded US Citizenship last week

Not yet. The Senate passed the bill, the House isn't going to pass it as is (which will help the Democrats in 2014 and 2016) and it will be years before these people become voters.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
As to 2016, Democrats have a tough situation especially as to keeping the President's seat.

The biggest challenge the Democrats have is the difficulty in a party retaining power after 8 years. Politicians tend to become arrogant when they are in office for a long time. (Tea Party politicians tend to be arrogant from Day One.)

Bush I had the opportunity of being re-elected, but the level of arrogance in his Administration was a real turnoff for many. Ironic as Bush himself was far from an arrogant himself.n It was the John Sanunu attitude that seemed to be taken over that got me to vote fro a Democrat for the first time in my life.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
I don't think Hillary Clinton is the answer either, she has too much of a record, too connected to President Obama and her husband with their baggage.

Her record includes being SecState and doing a pretty good job of cleaning up the mess our reputation was in after Bush & Cheney.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
Still the Republicans have a serious problem as well for the office of the President, they too need a moderate but also have a problem with primary voters who are dominated by radical right-Tea Party group.

That is the scary part for the GOP. Moderate republicans who could attract Independent & Democrats will be destroyed in the primaries.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
in 2008, McCain screwed himself with Palin as VP

That is the understatement of the thread.

Looking back Palin did deliver a great First Impression. Her Convention speech was outstanding. Then she was asked challenging questions - like "what do you read". She lost it all when she started talking about Russia - and Saturday Night Live delivered one of the best political skits ever.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
Not more Bushs either, 2 were enough.

It's sad, but both Bush I and Bush II had their reputations ruined by people in their Administrations. Sanunu & Friends for Bush I and then Cheney & Rummy for Bush II. If W had been able to get Colin Powell to be his VP then the world would have been a different place - and Jeb would have a real opportunity.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
The possible candidates from Christie

Christi has taken the first major step for running and that was his surgery in February. I wish him well with it and believe that if he achieves his goals weight wise then he will have demonstrated the self control a lot of us are looking for in him.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16):
TX's Perry

Perry recalling the Legislature for the abortion bill pretty well gives his chances in the general election an abortion itself.


Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Hillary will run and she will win. (unfortunately)



Don't know about that. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't stand behind a very good Democrat who has a good chance of winning and take the VP slot.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
In fact, she may even pick up a few Romney voters of 2012.

Bill Clinton can probably pick up more. His 2012 Convention speech was outstanding. If the GOP puts a Tea Party type then look for Slick WIllie to shred the guy to pieces.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
electing the first female President is too important for a lot of voters so logic again will be out the door.

I believe that the the voters are going to be far more interested in the economy, being able to get health care, knowing their children and grandkids aren't going to be screwed on Social Security & Medicare. Basic, simple stuff like that.

That means the GOP needs to stop holding votes to end Health Care Reform every few months and they need to understand that continual flapping around on abortion will abort their candidates candidacy in it's infancy. Give those old dogs a rest.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
America is headed towards a 1 party system (Democratic) and the fall of the country will be on their watch.

Actually, with the propaganda coming from the right-wing media and so many millions believing it AND the redistricting going on all over the nation AND voter suppression, the right is assured this will be the "Christian" answer to Iran.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3001 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
and unless I'm mistaken the religions of the book aren't big fans of drugs either

Therein lies the problem for the GOP to not take up this issue. No specific verse in the Bible even addresses drugs. The closest thing, perhaps, is 1 Corinthians 6:19 :

Quote:
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

So technically they can argue both ways:
1. They can say that The Bible does prohibit drugs, but just like gay marriage, there's no direct verse about it*.
2. They can say that The Bible does NOT prohibit drugs, but then that opens the door for other things...like gay marriage.

In fact, there's more sense to prohibit alcohol consumption since more verses appeal to that...I don't see the GOP arguing against drinking alcohol.   

To put a better question, one has to ask: which is the GOP trying to uphold: the US Constitution and its laws, or the Bible and its laws?

*(Off topic, but to make a point) I place an asterisk because many usually cherrypick the verses and what to say or not. Many say that the Old Testament is no longer valid and it's the New one that's current...but then when you bring about many other things explicitly forbidden in the New Testament, they don't want to follow through. Or when you say that Jesus never mentioned anything about drugs/alcohol/homosexuality, they say that the Bible said so (and usually quote Leviticus)...so one has to wonder, is the whole Bible relevant? Which verses of it are relevant?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Don't know about that. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't stand behind a very good Democrat who has a good chance of winning and take the VP slot.

Hillary won't play 2nd fiddle to anyone.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
Bill Clinton can probably pick up more. His 2012 Convention speech was outstanding. If the GOP puts a Tea Party type then look for Slick WIllie to shred the guy to pieces.

Ummm, Bill Clinton can't run again.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
Actually, with the propaganda coming from the right-wing media

  
What propaganda? What right-wing media?
I'm just giving my own observation. I'd love to be proven wrong on this topic. Only time will tell. Let's revisit this thread come November 2016.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 19):
Ted Cruz

He was born in Canada.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 19):
I would think someone like Bloomberg

Oh HELL no!
I'd rather put Dubya back in office than Bloomberg and I still consider Dubya to be one of the worst Presidents ever.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 19):
Saying all that politics has been become a game of extreme partisanship and that isn't just on the US side of the 49th parallel, it happens up here too. Many voters believe that not wanting to compromise and come of with a collective solution is a sign of weakness, to me this is huge stupidity and would not be tolerated in the business world or in a relationship.

Can we please borrow Stephen Harper to be our President?   



Bring back the Concorde
25 Post contains images WestJet747 : No. Social issues are what is killing the GOP. NOW you're talking! The Republicans need to swing back to fiscal conservatism. https://en.wikipedia.or
26 Post contains links Superfly : You should see the folks showing up to the polls in 2008. The uneducated voters maybe a minority but large enough to tip the election in their favor.
27 rfields5421 : When Newt Gingrich publicly comments in the campain that Hillary Clinton is the smartest, hardest working person in Washington DC - focused on servin
28 windy95 : And the DNC is not guided and been run by rich white guys?
29 Post contains links seb146 : "Obama is a socialist! Obama is a Muslim! Obama was born in Kenya! Obama caused....!" Like that? Even those lies didn't keep people from voting for h
30 1337Delta764 : Untrue. Obama ONLY won due to voter fraud, and that is not my opinion but an ABSOLUTE FACT. He should be impeached IMMEDIATELY, and ALL Democratic se
31 Post contains images AeroWesty : I should have known better than to have taken a swig of coffee before opening this thread! You know, all the Democrats need to do to keep winning off
32 FlyPNS1 : While it might attract some younger and libertarian voters to the GOP, it would also alienate some of the GOP's base. The religious right doesn't lik
33 Post contains images WestJet747 : I see that as a one-time phenomenon. Remember all those videos of low-income individuals going on about "Obama's gonna get me a free cell phone!", am
34 1337Delta764 : Because they have been rigging every single recent election to give their party an unfair advantage. Send them to prison and it will give the Republi
35 Post contains links AeroWesty : GOP Voter Fraud Accusations Suddenly Blowing Up In Their Faces Oh dear! GOP fraudsters!
36 WestJet747 : Apparently you didn't see the links I posted earlier. Here's a refresher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_repression https://en.wikipedia.org
37 Post contains links and images Superfly : You have a right to your opinion but not a single poll backs up your claim. Obama had a small lead throughout most of the year. Romney didn't get any
38 Post contains images Confuscius : Perhaps by subtraction through voter suppression? If the GOP can repeal the 15th, 19th and 26th Amendments that will take care of the Democratic part
39 Post contains images Superfly : Won't be Gavin Newsome. Too many close associations with me in San Francisco. They're already talking about Cory Booker as Hilary's VP and he'll be n
40 cedarjet : It will take more than just doing the right thing on one single issue to get people voting Republican again. I am a big supporter of legalising pot bu
41 Post contains images Ken777 : She did asFirst Lady and then Sec State. She may well be happy as VP as long as she is involved in the Oval Office. No way would she play the bucket
42 DeltaMD90 : Sigh... can you at least provide links to your sources? No matter what your position, you need to back up what you are saying. Otherwise no one can t
43 rfields5421 : He was 65. He was 69 years, 11 months and 19 days old when he took the oath of office. Hillary will be 68 during most of the 2016 campaign - she will
44 einsteinboricua : As much as I like this statement, his mother was born and raised in Delaware so technically he's a McCain case (born outside the US to at least one U
45 Polot : McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone in a US base though, so the argument could be made that he is still a "natural born" citizen (and even then
46 Aesma : Didn't the House pass a bill to say that he was born on US territory ? Can't happen with Canada I would think/hope.
47 seb146 : The gays are going to get on that and she will look better than Katy Perry in her "Friday Night" video LOL
48 Superfly : Like she was going to stop Bill from running back in 1992? You think she had a chance as a wife of a governor of a small southern state at the Presid
49 StarAC17 : I don't know if they ever had it won but it certainly would have been a lot closer had they focused on the economy like Republicans of the past had,
50 Aesma : Besides, the GOP and and Dems have a great advantage in the strictly dual party system the US has. The dems just need to be to the left of the GOP, an
51 Post contains images Superfly : That would be a terrible idea. The state by state process gives the smaller, lesser known candidate an opportunity to get his/her message out and con
52 rfields5421 : To support Superfly's position - the state primaries are also where we find major funded candidates, like my dear governor Rick Perry, are babbling i
53 Aesma : That's just an example to show how a party that hadn't won the presidency since 1988 (!) did it in 2012. That's thanks to the debates, there would st
54 Ken777 : He was born outside of the US because his father was serving at a military base outside the US. Regardless of his Dad's military status, his parents
55 rfields5421 : I certainly agree. Ted Cruz is clearly a 'natural born citizen'. His citizenship is derived from his mother, just like President Obama. Just like the
56 Polot : There is no question about citizenship, it is whether he is a "natural born" citizen or not. Traditionally that has been interpreted to mean being bo
57 Post contains images Superfly : ...and that is the point. State by state primaries weed out the idiots early on. Yet it also gives other candidates a chance instead of the Washingto
58 DocLightning : If they do that, then they clear the way for the Democrats to match. This is honestly an issue that will require a small critical mass. Second, the b
59 seb146 : I find it interesting that some of the right-wing pundits scream about how Obama is a part of the Muslim Brotherhood and fiercely supports the Muslim
60 Post contains links and images Superfly : Referring to these 'right-wing pundits'? ..
61 Ken777 : Considering that "foreigners" who gain citizenship through the standard process are called "naturalized citizens" as opposed to naturally born citize
62 seb146 : I call BS on the pic. I see similar pics supporting my opinion on many topics but they look doctored. This one does too.
63 DocLightning : "natural born" means citizen at birth. If one parent is a citizen, that will do. Place of birth is irrelevant unless neither parent is a citizen.
64 DeltaMD90 : I agree, it does look a bit doctored, though I can't say with 100% certainty. It might be that it's kind of a low res pic so the pixels around the te
65 Superfly : So much information out there and it is no secret that the people in Egypt that are protesting against Morsi also are against Obama and his support f
66 Aesma : Well being "against Obama" in Egypt can mean many things. If you don't like the particular policy of the man regarding Egypt that's one thing. It does
67 Polot : Again you guys are making judgements on what "natural born" means. In 1758, for example, in Emmerich de Vattel's "The Law of Nations" natural born ci
68 dreadnought : Here it's the other way around - the Congress can eject the President - although that has never happened yet. The president has to be impeached by th
69 AeroWesty : As far as I know, this goes back to recognizing that who were citizens of the United States was never properly defined by the framers of the Constitu
70 rfields5421 : No it hasn't traditionally had that meaning. Then why in 1790 did the US Congress define citizenship as That is a direct quote from the Naturalizatio
71 AeroWesty : IIRC, the argument regarding Goldwater was that neither he nor his parents claimed allegiance to any foreign state at the time of his birth, which wa
72 rfields5421 : It's been a long time, and my memory isn't perfect - but I think the 'allegiance' discussion related to Romney in the 1968 campaign, not Goldwater in
73 Post contains images AeroWesty : You could be right, I was a few years behind you, so we didn't have those kinds of discussions when Bobby was running for president. Why I remember i
74 seb146 : They were fine with Obama sitting back and doing nothing and with he and other presidents meeting with Mubarik over the years but now they are out in
75 planemaker : That is an understatement. Unless the "hated" establishment takes back control of the primary process there won't be a Republican president for a ver
76 Post contains images DocLightning : No, there are plenty of people who think that where Mr. Obama was born is important. Not a single one of those very same people cared that Mr. McCain
77 planemaker : But... it just ain't ever gonna happen coz of the primaries. A prez candidate wouldn't pass the "litmus" test. Interesting that the "godfather" of Am
78 jet-lagged : Methinks the GOP won't go near marijuana legalization. Why? Because what brings them together is theme of values. As policy makers they are not very g
79 DocLightning : Ron Paul did it. In the end, it's going to have to come to a point of wealthy donors out-donating the industrial interests that run the drug war.
80 FlyPNS1 : And how well did he fare in the Presidential primaries? Not very...despite all the hype he couldn't get a lot of traction. Not to mention that MJ leg
81 incitatus : I thought you were going to mention "Muslims". It is also a group with strong values of religion, family, education and tradition. One gap between ma
82 planemaker : While the drug war/industrial complex has high powered lobbies, they aren't the ones that really make a difference at the primary level where it is t
83 Superfly : Ummm, their religion hates Christians. So much talk about the evangelicals. They are are diminishing force within the GOP. They couldn't even get the
84 seb146 : This shows the power of corporate money over the people. The corporations threw millions at Gingrich and Romney. This is why we need money out of pol
85 Superfly : Nope. Ron Paul was targeting voters that are not registered Republicans, thus couldn't participate in the Republican primary. Ron Paul probably would
86 DocLightning : It wasn't the marijuana issue that killed him. It was his unwillingness to tow the party line on other social issues. It was also his unwillingness t
87 planemaker : As pointed out by others, he was a default candidate because he is RC... there was support for his very conservative moral views, not for his religio
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