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French Propose Regulating Restaurant Factory-Food  
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Now this is an idea I could really get behind. One of my biggest gripes about the trend towards restaurants serving food prepared offsite is that, as the article below states, "everybody ends up eating the same mass-produced food with the same homogenized tastes."

I've long avoided the Olive Gardens and Applebee's of the world because I know going into it that the food is trucked in and reheated to order. I've even stopped going to a place I liked for breakfast nearby when their pancakes started tasting too much like that commercial flavor-enhancer you can even buy in home kitchen-sized bottles now.

So what are the French up to? There's a proposal from their restaurant union to restrict the title "restaurant" to establishments where food is cooked from scratch. A government minister has proposed a logo on menus for dishes which are "home made".

French restaurants acknowledge serving factory-frozen food

Quote:
PARIS — It is the warmest memory of many a vacation in France: the little Paris restaurant where a white-aproned waiter served a dish glorified on the menu as something homey like blanquette de veau grand-mere, topped off with a still-tepid creme brulee that was just the right mix of crackly and creamy.

The trouble with this picture, it turns out, is that in 21st-century France, chances are high that both the stew and the dessert were assembled and cooked on a production line in a distant suburban factory, that they were quick-frozen and trucked to the restaurant, that they were then microwaved for unsuspecting diners who thought they were sampling traditional French cuisine.

In a survey conducted for the National Union of Hotel, Restaurant and Cafe Operators, a third of French restaurants acknowledged serving such factory-frozen products to clients. Restaurant owners estimated that the real number is substantially higher, as many chefs were embarrassed to admit the short cuts that, in effect, hoodwink their customers.

Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.


International Homo of Mystery
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8731 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.

Absolutely!



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6839 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.

Of course, and because I can't have dairy or wheat, it's useful to be somewhere where that can be catered for. I don't usually eat out that much anyway for this reason.

I was impressed at the Novotel airport hotel in Birmingham (UK) where the restaurant staff were happy to prepare something for my particular requirements.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4044 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
There's a proposal from their restaurant union to restrict the title "restaurant" to establishments where food is cooked from scratch.

Ahh, I wondered where it had come from...

When you can't compete on merit, then push for legislation that denigrates the competition.

And what do they propose as "from scratch"? Do you have to prepare each serving of bernaise sauce individually or can you preprepare a vat beforehand? What about a packaged base for a sauce?


User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

This my pet hate in the UK. I love traditional pub food, but as most pubs are part of a chain now, seems that almost everywhere I go its ding food.


To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
When you can't compete on merit, then push for legislation that denigrates the competition.

Reading the article it's a job-related deal for the union, since you don't need a chef to unwrap a frozen tray and zap it in the microwave.

With more interest in the provenance of what people eat, it seems like a natural progression to have more of an interest in how it's prepared as well, as restaurant food factories have proliferated. Even Gordon Ramsay has food shipped in for some of his London restaurants:

Gordon Ramsay restaurants found to be using pre-prepared meals

Quote:
It is not hard to guess what Gordon Ramsay said yesterday when he fell victim to a sting by the Sun newspaper, which caught his London gastro-pubs out using pre-prepared meals including boil-in-a-bag coq au vin at mark-ups of 500%. Whatever he said, it probably had an F in it.

The television chef found himself having to defend the practice by which meals are prepared at a kitchen operated by one of his companies in south London and transported in refrigerated vans to his Foxtrot Oscar restaurant and three pubs he runs in Limehouse, Maida Vale and Chiswick.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinedreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8913 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
I've long avoided the Olive Gardens and Applebee's of the world because I know going into it that the food is trucked in and reheated to order.

The Olive Gardens and Applebees are not necessarily the targets here. Those restaurants may have standardized menus and prices (which is the attractiveness of such restaurants to consumers - wherever you are you know what you are going to get - but they could be using fresh ingredients.

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.

Any Gordon Ramsey fans here? This is his pet peeve as well - private, independent restaurants who buy in frozen food from someplace and call it homemade. Considering that the vast majority of restaurants in France are independent, this is the bigger issue in France.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
I've long avoided the Olive Gardens and Applebee's of the world because I know going into it that the food is trucked in and reheated to order. I've even stopped going to a place I liked for breakfast nearby when their pancakes started tasting too much like that commercial flavor-enhancer you can even buy in home kitchen-sized bottles now.

Thus demonstrating that the market mechanism needs no molestation by politicians.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.

I do. I'm not saying I will never eat in a restaurant chain that serves pre-prepared food (indeed I have). But if I do eat there, then I want to know that it is the kind of food they serve, if only to know what I pay for. It's a quality vs. price thing, and that would prevent some independent or semi-independent restaurateurs from overcharging for factory made food.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4044 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2266 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):

Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.

So do I, I just don't believe legislation is needed when you can simply ask the question yourself of the staff in the restaurant and then make the decision.

This is nothing more than a union grab.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Thread starter):
Do you believe you have the right to know what you're buying at a restaurant is prepared onsite vs. what is trucked in and reheated? I sure do.

My parents used to be in the restaurant business. My mothers restaurants where at factories and typically they would have one kitchen server multiple restaurants on that factory and occasionally next door. Would that be considered a restaurant now?

I also think it is very difficult to draw the line of what constitutes cooked at site. Is it OK if you boil ready made pasta or do you need to make it fresh? What if you buy mayo, mustard, ketchup, chocolate, etc? Can you buy curry or do you need to blend it yourself?

Then comes the issue of reheated. I expect many of you will have problems accepting it but it comes down to the process used. They looked at it very closely at my mothers restaurants at one time. Part of the process was to have chefs blind test and they could not tell when you use the right process.

In the end they didn't implement it because they decided local service was important but it had nothing to do with food quality.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 6):
Any Gordon Ramsey fans here?

Read above.  
Quoting francoflier (Reply 8):
It's a quality vs. price thing, and that would prevent some independent or semi-independent restaurateurs from overcharging for factory made food.

Indeed. Why pay the same price for what is ding food in one establishment, but costlier made from scratch at another?

Quoting moo (Reply 9):
you can simply ask the question yourself of the staff in the restaurant and then make the decision.

Remember the Kitchen Nightmares segment where the Amy of Amy's Baking Company lied to Gordon Ramsay about whether her desserts were made on site or brought in?

Quoting cmf (Reply 10):
I also think it is very difficult to draw the line of what constitutes cooked at site. Is it OK if you boil ready made pasta or do you need to make it fresh? What if you buy mayo, mustard, ketchup, chocolate, etc?

It's not difficult at all. A dish labeled 'fresh pasta' would be freshly made at the restaurant pasta. Mayo, ketchup, etc. are ingredients, not finished dishes.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4044 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
Remember the Kitchen Nightmares segment where the Amy of Amy's Baking Company lied to Gordon Ramsay about whether her desserts were made on site or brought in?

Which is out and out fraud, already illegal. You don't need new legislation to solve that issue, just apply existing law.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 12):
You don't need new legislation to solve that issue, just apply existing law.

I and others would prefer the restaurant be up front and list on the menu what is made in-house and what is brought in, rather than have to have the server stand there going over every option on the menu. But I also understand the viewpoint of people who view anything from a union or the government as inherently bad.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
I and others would prefer the restaurant be up front and list on the menu what is made in-house and what is brought in, rather than have to have the server stand there going over every option on the menu.

If that's the case then restaurants will do that voluntarily on their menu.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
It's not difficult at all. A dish labeled 'fresh pasta' would be freshly made at the restaurant pasta. Mayo, ketchup, etc. are ingredients, not finished dishes.

So as long as you don't use fresh on the menu you can just heat it up?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
Mayo, ketchup, etc. are ingredients, not finished dishes.

I have never seen a restaurant type of reheat where you don't plate after heating it up so everything reheated is just ingredients in the finished product. what if they reheat the meat and vegetable but make the sauce from scratch?


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4044 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
I and others would prefer the restaurant be up front and list on the menu what is made in-house and what is brought in, rather than have to have the server stand there going over every option on the menu.

There's a whole load of things that could similarly be required to be disclosed - are they using organic or not, GMO or not, fair trade or standard market, responsibly farmed produce, local produce etc etc etc.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
But I also understand the viewpoint of people who view anything from a union or the government as inherently bad.

Now that's putting words in my mouth just to cheapen my opinion to others, and I don't appreciate that.

I don't see everything government or union is bad, but my view is that there is something inherently wrong in a union suggesting legislation because they are finding it hard to compete in the market.

Why can't those restaurants wanting to trade on the basis of onsite produced food play on that in their advertising? Why can't they make it a plus point for their customers?

You don't need legislation for this, that's just using the law as a bullying tactic.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
I have never seen a restaurant type of reheat where you don't plate after heating it up so everything reheated is just ingredients in the finished product. what if they reheat the meat and vegetable but make the sauce from scratch?

There's way way overthinking and then there's not. The proposal is to identify dishes which are made outside in a factory, frozen, and warmed up by a non-chef, against those which aren't. Simple.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 16):
Now that's putting words in my mouth just to cheapen my opinion to others, and I don't appreciate that.

One also has to take responsibility for the impression they give out. If you don't want people to feel that you view everything originating from a union as inherently bad, then you could also answer with posts which don't center around phrases such as:

Quoting moo (Reply 3):
Ahh, I wondered where it had come from
Quoting moo (Reply 9):
This is nothing more than a union grab.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
The proposal is to identify dishes which are made outside in a factory, frozen, and warmed up by a non-chef, against those which aren't. Simple.

What does it matter if it is a chef or whatever you want to call it reheating it? I think you don't realize how much stuff is bought even in the best restaurants. More importantly you're missing that reheating has made leaps and bounds progress over what people typically think of reheating. You use tightly controlled steam owens, certainly not microwaves. In many ways the reheated food is better than the locally made as it is much more consistent. Not to mention all those things happening in kitchens that you don't want to know about and are so much more common in small kitchens.

I appreciate the idea behind this but reality is that it isn't a usable measurement. Let customers decide based on if they like the food or not.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4044 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
One also has to take responsibility for the impression they give out. If you don't want people to feel that you view everything originating from a union as inherently bad, then you could also answer with posts which don't center around phrases such as:

That doesn't entitle you to put words in my mouth or extend my comments beyond that which I have already put them - this is a union grab, whether you like unions or not, it's them using legislation to protect their position and members at the detriment of non-members. How can you not call that a union grab?

Why aren't the unions putting their members dues to work by running advertising campaigns to highlight the issue and raise public awareness? Why aren't the unions suggest that their members push their onsite produced meals as a quality point above local competitors which ship the meals in?

Why do the unions want a law to be passed?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 19):
What does it matter if it is a chef or whatever you want to call it reheating it?

It isn't so much whether it's a chef doing the reheating or not, the issue is whether people want to pay 'from scratch' pricing for meals which are largely prepared offsite, then either frozen or chilled, and held for reheating on order. Obviously, it's much cheaper to have someone without culinary training to reheat, than a chef to prepare food to order from perishable ingredients.

Quoting cmf (Reply 19):
More importantly you're missing that reheating has made leaps and bounds progress over what people typically think of reheating. You use tightly controlled steam owens, certainly not microwaves.

I'm not a restaurant professional, I used the wording which the Washington Post used in the article I linked.

Quoting cmf (Reply 19):
In many ways the reheated food is better than the locally made as it is much more consistent.

I thought about this aspect while reading the article. As I indicated in my opening post, one of the things which makes going out to restaurants less appealing to me is to have the same cookie-cutter style food available from one place to the next. The lower and mid-range of restaurant choices are becoming more and more dominated by these 'consistent food' establishments. How long has Sizzler offered Malibu Chicken? 25 years?

I seek out independent establishments as much as possible, but even then, walking into somewhere new, how is a diner to know what is trucked in and what isn't?

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
That doesn't entitle you to put words in my mouth

Everyone has the entitlement to comment on the impression left by those who post. No one forced you to write what you wrote. Take responsibility for how you framed your views instead of trying to run away from them. If your words were misunderstood, that gives you the opportunity to express them differently.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4044 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
Everyone has the entitlement to comment on the impression left by those who post

You are entitled to comment, you are not entitled to put words in my mouth. If you can't tell the difference, then perhaps you should refrain altogether.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
Take responsibility for how you framed your views instead of trying to run away from them. If your words were misunderstood, that gives you the opportunity to express them differently.

I take full responsibility for what I post - I've not edited or removed my post, and I've kept my username against it.

What I don't take responsibility for is other people paraphrasing me or extending my comments beyond that which I have explicitly said in my own posts.

Yu weren't misunderstanding my words, you were deliberately using them to attack my position without answering my actual comments. That's called an ad hominem.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
I seek out independent establishments as much as possible, but even then, walking into somewhere new, how is a diner to know what is trucked in and what isn't?

You *ask*, or is that so hard these days? "Does this contain garlic? Is it prepared from scratch on these premises? Does it contain locally sourced produce?"


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 22):
Yu weren't misunderstanding my words, you were deliberately using them to attack my position without answering my actual comments. That's called an ad hominem.


Not everything in life is all about you. What you're missing is that you weren't the only one who was tilting their comments in a way which came across as anti-union/anti-government, which is very common on this board. You've re-expressed your views so that they're more clear. Great, move on.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9658 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

If a restaurant has to prepare everything from "scratch" it has at least one Michelin star or the ambition to get one. Prices for a menue start at 100€ with open end and there are a small number even in a country like Fraqnce.

Even high price restaurants without that ambition cannot afford to do everythoing from scratch. The magic word is "convenience" and that starts from basic sauces to peeled and pre cooked potatoes and many more things. At today#s wages most restaurants cannot afford to do such things on the premises.

The real mix does it and a look at the prices will tell the educated guest what he can expect.

Not to call places like "Applebee's" or McDonalds a restaurant is perfectly OK. That goes for chain "restaurants" like Maredo as wlel, they are better McDonalds.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
25 Post contains images moo : Forgive me for thinking that by quoting you and only me you intended the reply to be for me...
26 PPVRA : Ah, unions. . . when it becomes obvious they are uncompetitive and their existence threatened, they seek the law to attack the competition! Cowards. "
27 Aesma : From some time I've been avoiding restaurants with a 15 pages menu, there is no way in hell, even with 5 chefs, that they can cook all those things on
28 PanHAM : That depends, again, you have to look at the place. If it is a joint that heats up frozen food, do not go there. If it is aq Chinese or other Asian r
29 PPVRA : The public (i.e., the majority) has decided they don't want to pay exorbitant prices just to have food prepared on-site. This is just another useless
30 Aesma : Well if you believe people don't care about such logos (the point of the law being that it will be backed by inspections) then there is not need to wo
31 cmf : If you like the food, what does it matter if it was trucked in or not? What does from scratch mean to you and why does it matter so much? I am not aw
32 AeroWesty : Walking into somewhere new, how is one to know whether they're going to like the food? I like the idea of knowing what there is on the menu that's tr
33 cmf : How do you know you will like the food just because it is prepared there? Again, you treat all forms of food not prepared next to the dining room the
34 Post contains images Braybuddy : Mon dieu! I think it's a great idea, confining the word "restaurant" to places that actually cook the food from scratch, though it might be hard to i
35 MD11Engineer : As a university student I used to work from time to time in a restaurant kitchen (as a dishwasher). There the cook would come in the late morning and
36 Post contains links AeroWesty : I would like the choice: Just like I only buy Oregon dairy products ( http://whereismymilkfrom.com/ ), or how I make many of the other food choices I
37 cmf : Powdered sauces shouldn't ever be used at a restaurant. But as you said sauces are often made hours or even the day before. What does it matter if th
38 L0VE2FLY : Good for you. I was invited for dinner there few years ago, their "Italian" food looked and tasted nothing like what I had in Rome few months prior.
39 Aesma : I'm not sure why you're all focusing on sauces, sure they will probably be considered in the label but really the outrage isn't about the sauce, rathe
40 AeroWesty : Among other reasons: 1) The restauranteur has control over the quality of the ingredients and how they're prepared, rather than just ticking "marinar
41 luckyone : Actually it's Japan. But France isn't far behind.
42 cmf : With this it is obvious you don't know the processes available to restaurant. What you describe is the lowest form of pre-made food. It isn't the onl
43 Post contains images AeroWesty : Thank you, Mr. Obvious! I've never claimed to be anything other than a restaurant patron. Oh, look here: This is getting easier though, to answer you
44 ltbewr : I do think some advertising regulation as to the place of preparation of food in a restaurant should be included or allow those that prepare meals ide
45 Post contains images cmf : How is it you still fail to understand that it is the restaurants who decide on recipes and ingredients? They use the exact same ingredients they wou
46 AeroWesty : I really encourage you to read the linked article. The picture you paint is much different than what is described there. Even common sense would tell
47 cmf : How about using some of that common sense. I've already provided you an example of where a it makes sense even when you have a single location. One o
48 Post contains links AeroWesty : As the article points out, and has been discussed here by others, bringing food in can result in the same homogenized food in place after place. If I
49 cmf : Again, what does it matter if she makes them at her place and deliver them or she goes to to their place and make them there? What is the difference?
50 AeroWesty : For the fourth(?) time now in this thread ... homogenization of the food that you receive in restaurant after restaurant. You could, if you want, als
51 RomeoBravo : No, you're not, you're talking about mandating information. Withholding information is not dishonest. Presenting false information is. If a restauran
52 Mir : So do they have to actually make the pasta themselves? What about the sauce? What if they use store-bought pasta but make their own sauce - do they g
53 cmf : For I don't know what time you display your lack of knowledge. There is no difference between the cake You really should take that advice instead of d
54 AeroWesty : I honestly don't mean to be rude, but sometimes I wonder if I'm speaking the same English language as some posters. What does that say in perfect Engl
55 AeroWesty : Is the dish prepared in-house or not. Simple. You don't see any value in that. Great, we get that. It doesn't mean that others wouldn't get some valu
56 cmf : Again, where do you draw the line for in-house? What if they use ready made pasta? What happens if they buy sausage instead of stuffing it themselves
57 Post contains images AeroWesty : Eh? Prior to this post, you didn't use the word "peel" in a single post, so it would have been difficult to "address the question". I'm quickly getti
58 Mir : Well, you said that ingredients don't count, and I'd consider the actual pasta to be an ingredient in the total dish (the others being the sauces, wh
59 Aesma : AeroWesty is not the one proposing this, we're talking about a cabinet member here. As for fresh pasta, it's pasta that isn't dried and hard.
60 cmf : Oh God, you show your lack of reading comprehension again. Then introduce argumentative. Before you accuse others you should look at yourself. When w
61 AeroWesty : Quote me correctly: Then you went on to question whether "freshly made" defined in the same sentence as "made at the restaurant" meant did "they have
62 AeroWesty : I've indulged you in answering question after question. Now that we've established that people are interested in the provenance of their food, how wi
63 PanHAM : A good Italian restaurant that is owned by an Italian does prepares the pasta in house. It's not rocket science, we have a pasta machine for the Kitch
64 cmf : You have still not answered the questions. Where is the line in the sand for what is required to be in-house? Why does location matter instead of pro
65 AeroWesty : I've indulged you in answering question after question. Now that we've established that people are interested in the provenance of their food, how wi
66 cmf : No you haven't. All you do is dance around to avoid answer two very straightforward questions that has been explained to you in multiple ways. Where
67 Post contains images AeroWesty : If you want to eliminate yourself from the conversation, that's entirely up to you. Since some of the same questions have been asked 3 or 4 different
68 cmf : Still afraid of answering to straightforward questions.
69 Bongodog1964 : I'm surprised, I would have guessed that a Novotel would be well down the microwave and boil in bag route I recall that the justification was that th
70 PPVRA : You can have an industry association (or even a labor union-backed association!) perform inspections. IMO, absolutely not. The menu is not the place
71 lapper : I once knew someone who worked at a Little Chef, those in the UK will know what I mean, roadside diner/cafe next to a busy A road, commonly known as L
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