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What Do We Do About Race Relations In America?  
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

I followed the trial closely, something I have not done heretofore with any of these nationally captivating trials. Legally speaking, it is what it is. The state failed to prove its case. But one person is dead and another’s life is destroyed. No one has truly won here. This isn’t a legal post—that’s for other threads.

But what now? About society? And us?

I’ve been thinking about this a great deal because I’m really very troubled. I know this is the last forum to even express something like this, but I had to get a few things off my chest. It’s a real shame—although predictable—that this has become some perverse referendum on race relations in America. From the get-go, this entire thing was co-opted for political purposes, from the overzealous Angela Corey, who should be faced with prosecutorial misconduct IMO, to Obama with his inane “if I had a son” comment. The police chief was cashiered because he wouldn’t prosecute, the police didn’t think it was appropriate either. The entire thing was hijacked by the race business, including the very distasteful moniker for Zimmerman “white Hispanic” by CNN (whatever the hell that means).

And in reading the torrential downpour of Tweets and comments from celebrities, athletes and pandering leftists, I shudder to think of how dumbed-down we’ve become. It’s actually not even maddening—the ignorance and unjustified anger is just flat-out saddening.

I think Eric Holder belongs in jail for his criminality, but he was correct—indirectly and unintentionally—when he made that famous comment about us being cowards about race. He’s right, but in a way he didn’t intend: we refuse to talk about the raw, honest truth and the state of the black community. We want the pound of flesh from George Zimmerman, but we don’t hold “black leaders” responsible for their racist, inflammatory and inciteful comments (see Al Sharpton and ‘Reverend’ $hakedown Jack$on, most frequently). The media can impugn, indict and ostracize anyone they choose at any time of their choosing, but won’t touch the tough issues associated with race.

Some call this a cold-blooded murder of an innocent black kid and riot in the streets, but yet there is NO mention in the mainstream media about Joshua Chellew. Does he not deserve justice as well? Or Antonio Santiago? His life is as equally valuable as that of Trayvon Martin’s was, is it not? And there’s NO talk in the MSM about black on black violence at all, which is epidemic. Based on Bureau of Justice stats, between 1976-2011, there were 279,384 black murder victims, which means that 262,621 were murdered by other blacks. In some years, it’s as high as 94%. Even though blacks make-up only 12.5-13% of the nation’s population, they account 50% (give or take) of all homicide victims. Where is the focus on this?
At the end of the day, we have a cultural problem with violence that spans race, but the black community has some very notable problems that are not dissimilar from white or Hispanic communities, but are more pronounced. And it starts with the breakdown—or non-existence—of the family unit. Now about 70% of all black births are out of wedlock. And over 50 years of affirmative action and civil rights progress hasn’t ameliorated the anger from many blacks toward whites—if anything, it might have made it worse. Education is a disaster and the predominant contemporary (note the deliberate use of the word CONTEMPORARY—because it wasn’t like this before the emergence of the welfare state) culture says being educated is not cool. The culture of rap music, misogynistic and racist lyrics, gang involvement, and our pop culture sewer just magnify this entire problem.

Our cities are burning before our very eyes. Large cities have high homicide rates and are imploding. It’s not sustainable. It can’t be. The destruction of basic values of education, morality, right and wrong, fatherhood, responsibility, have created dependency and a dependent class, when you discard the benefits of education, crime and misery follow. And here we are.

So what’s next? I sincerely would love to hear proposed solutions and ideas—political, economic, social, etc—as to how we can bridge this and come together.

229 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
including the very distasteful moniker for Zimmerman %u201Cwhite Hispanic%u201D by CNN (whatever the hell that means).

Seems you suggest CNN created white hispanic, do you?

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
but yet there is NO mention in the mainstream media about Joshua Chellew. Does he not deserve justice as well? Or Antonio Santiago?

Why do you suggest these cases are equal to Zimmarman/Martin? I have not seen anyone suggest the perpetrators were justified in what they did and should go free.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
And it starts with the breakdown%u2014or non-existence%u2014of the family unit

Does it? How do you support this?

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
So what%u2019s next? I sincerely would love to hear proposed solutions and ideas%u2014political, economic, social, etc%u2014as to how we can bridge this and come together.

Now this is good. Sadly I do not have the answer. I have a few things I think will help but I am not under the illusion it will fix it.

The first thing is to realize that this is not something that will solved quickly. My guess is that it takes minimum two generations.

Second is to deal with the much higher unemployment there is in the black community. It means that in many cases other people will be treated ways they don't deserve. Sorry, but it is needed to move forward.

Third, and this is extremely difficult, skin color must be as unimportant as hair color. It is OK to use it to describe a person for sake of identification. It is OK to use it in jokes with the understanding it is a joke. We must loose the idea that Asians study hard and can't drive. Same needs to happen with prejudice about nationalities. Something that is rampant here on a.net I don't know how to make this happen but I am convinced education is part of it.

Nothing but a very simplistic start.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7445 times:

You've already made up your mind on so many things and introduced so many side-rants in your OP that I don't think it's even possible from the onset to have a productive discussion.

I really don't want to dignify this thread with a response, but it has to be said there's a major flaw in your reasoning: What does blacks killing blacks have to do with race relations in America? Isn't that an intra-race matter versus an inter-race one? If the number of black people killed by non-black people is as low as 6% in some years, does that even present a race relations issue?



Quoting slider (Thread starter):
Now about 70% of all black births are out of wedlock.

"Out of wedlock" doesn't mean "single-parent household" by the way. You would be better off providing a statistic for the latter, since unwed couple can still raise a child just the same as a couple who are recognized by the state.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
the very distasteful moniker for Zimmerman “white Hispanic”

"White hispanic" was a thing long before the Zimmerman trial. It refers to a white person of hispanic heritage. The rapper Pitbull has often discussed in interviews his hispanic roots and upbringing despite him "looking more white" than many caucasians.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
Our cities are burning before our very eyes. Large cities have high homicide rates and are imploding. It’s not sustainable. It can’t be. The destruction of basic values of education, morality, right and wrong, fatherhood, responsibility, have created dependency and a dependent class, when you discard the benefits of education, crime and misery follow. And here we are.

Except that crime as a whole is on the decrease in the US.




Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics



Flying refined.
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5453 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 7407 times:

As I'm about to go on vacation with very limited connectivity, if any, I will leave you with this:

So long as there is profit in racial discord, there will be those who sow racial discord. We all know the names. They crawl out of their gilded halls everytime they think they can make hay out of a situation.

They know what buttons to push. They know, that at a very basic level, they are immune from any real lasting ridicule (and prosecution) because they will just turn their organization on their accusers. They know they have willing accomplices.

They pick at the scab of racism in the United States and do their darndest to keep it bleeding fresh painful blood.

Is there racism in the US? Of course there is, but these race baiters make sure it continues to exist instead of helping to mitigate its effects. They help spawn more racism instead of helping to heal. They do nothing to end racism because it would take away their livilihood and the reason for their 15 minutes.

They disgust me.

It is up to us to ignore those idiots and raise our children correctly. Raise them to understand racisim and reject it. And more importantly, teach them to recognize real racism (not the brand peddled by the race mongers) and challenge it when they see it.

See you all in about 8 days.

Stay low, stay safe.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19717 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7380 times:

As a gay man, I often hear a lot of: "Just because I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle doesn't make me a homophobe."

Yes it does. In fact, that's the exact definition of homophobia.

If we are going to address race relations, the first thing that we are going to have to do is accept that racism DOES exist. And we are going to have to accept that many of us are racist, even those of us who wish we weren't. I am a horrible racist, although I accept it about myself and thus try to modulate my behavior with that knowledge in mind. It's my way of ensuring that, although I am not color-blind, and although I have racist tendencies, I can expect it out of myself and thus I can curb any resulting behavior.

I've seen it first-hand. My friend Folahan, who is quite Black (not African-American...he's Nigerian by ethnicity) was driving me somewhere one day. We were pulled over. Now, this is a Stanford-educated man who doesn't wear low-hanging jeans or an oversized baseball cap or a big diamond earring. Why were we pulled over? The officer could not give a single reason why he pulled him over. All he said when he walked up to the door was: "I need you to get out of the vehicle." Then, he looked in and saw me in the passenger seat and said, "Actually, wait a minute." He went back to his cruiser for about ten minutes and then came back. When Folahan asked why he'd been pulled over, the officer said that there had been a mistaken identity. I wrote down his badge number and filed a complaint.

This happens ALL the time. Black people get pulled over for no reason other than being black. And if that happens, then you can imagine what other sorts of racism there is.

So the first step is going to be to get rid of this: "I'm not a racist" denialism.

I am NOT saying that every complaint from the African-American community about racism is valid. But to minimize or deny all such complaints is even more invalid.


User currently offlinen318ea From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7372 times:

Racism DOES exist. Any other 17 year old black person killed in black on black violence wouldn't have made the News. Look up Chicago statistics for verification.

User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3379 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
I’ve been thinking about this a great deal because I’m really very troubled. I know this is the last forum to even express something like this, but I had to get a few things off my chest. It’s a real shame—although predictable—that this has become some perverse referendum on race relations in America.

It comes from a failure to call a spade a spade on this entire issue which is something that was finally being done on CNN last night. The panel on Anderson Cooper called this pretty much perfectly, the criminal justice system is biased against minorities blacks get harsher sentences than hispanics and both get bigger punishments for the exact same crime that a white person does on an aggregate. All DA's across the US that charge minorities with larger penalties than whites need to be called out on it.

Discrimination also is occurring when people who do studies for job applications to determine the hiring practices of a company. An example being candidates with a white sounding name get called for interviews at a much higher margin than those of black or hispanic sounding names given identical qualifications.

And finally it has to be acknowledged that if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white or hispanic then he would have likely been arrested immediately and not after 44 days.

These things (that do happen) need to be acknowledged called out and eventually changed if there is any hope of improving race relations.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
From the get-go, this entire thing was co-opted for political purposes, from the overzealous Angela Corey, who should be faced with prosecutorial misconduct IMO,

Perhaps but I do stand by the fact that she overcharged Zimmerman as there was no evidence that GZ left his car with the intent of shooting and killing TM.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
to Obama with his inane “if I had a son” comment.

Not really a necessary comment for this thread and the only ones outraged by this comment largely are the ones who think that racism in America is a thing of the past. The whole point of Obama saying this is that this could have been any father's child.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
And in reading the torrential downpour of Tweets and comments from celebrities, athletes and pandering leftists, I shudder to think of how dumbed-down we’ve become. It’s actually not even maddening—the ignorance and unjustified anger is just flat-out saddening.

Had GZ been convicted there would be just as many tweets from the other side. Alex Jones would have probably said that GZ was a liberal plan to take our guns.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
I think Eric Holder belongs in jail for his criminality, but he was correct—indirectly and unintentionally—when he made that famous comment about us being cowards about race. He’s right, but in a way he didn’t intend: we refuse to talk about the raw, honest truth and the state of the black community.

If you want to have a civil discussion then leave the opinions on people whom you don't like out of it. You would be among the first to bear fangs if someone thinks GWB and Cheney should be locked away for starting a bogus war.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
Our cities are burning before our very eyes. Large cities have high homicide rates and are imploding. It’s not sustainable. It can’t be. The destruction of basic values of education, morality, right and wrong, fatherhood, responsibility, have created dependency and a dependent class, when you discard the benefits of education, crime and misery follow. And here we are.

They really aren't, there are violent pockets of any city. Chicago is actually doing fine and is a really nice city, but the south side is a problem for crime which the politicians are doing very little to fix, education dollars are actually being pulled and not given to these areas and that just makes the cycle worse. As we all know money attracts the attention of the politicians attention and these communities don't have a lot and no one is willing to invest in them.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I've seen it first-hand. My friend Folahan, who is quite Black (not African-American...he's Nigerian by ethnicity) was driving me somewhere one day. We were pulled over. Now, this is a Stanford-educated man who doesn't wear low-hanging jeans or an oversized baseball cap or a big diamond earring. Why were we pulled over? The officer could not give a single reason why he pulled him over.

Reminds me of these clips from the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW9pklBXqk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQtDXxXyPYQ&list=PL3C1E4EEEB3B5CE5F



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7340 times:

Quoting n318ea (Reply 6):
Any other 17 year old black person killed in black on black violence wouldn't have made the News. Look up Chicago statistics for verification.

Lets not kid ourselves. The circumstances in the Zimmerman case are not typical.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 7):
Perhaps but I do stand by the fact that she overcharged Zimmerman as there was no evidence that GZ left his car with the intent of shooting and killing TM.

I agree he was overcharged and he probably had no intention to shoot until just before he reached for the gun. That said it was his actions that created the situation leading up to the shooting. Anyone calling for personal responsibility should be up over arms that he got out free.


User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7322 times:

Quoting n318ea (Reply 6):
Racism DOES exist. Any other 17 year old black person killed in black on black violence wouldn't have made the News. Look up Chicago statistics for verification.

Because it's the same circumstances right?  

This is gonna sound cold and callous, but I personally could care less about gang bangers and drug dealers dying in gun violence, as far as i'm concerned they deserve it. But you're confused if you think innocent kids dying in the crossfire don't get national attention...in fact, why don't you follow your own advise and look up the shooting of Hadiya Pendleton in Chicago, which garnered national attention.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineroswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 781 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7315 times:

Obama has set America back decades in terms of 'race relations' by injecting himself prematurely into situations like the Zimmerman self defense shooting case. Perhaps Obama's time as a community organizer/agitator makes it difficult for him to sit on the sidelines while the legal system processes these cases. Either way, I agree that as long as there is money or political gain to be had by race baiting and agitating, America will be the worse for it. I know it's hard to believe for some, but not every interaction, transaction or criminal act involves race.

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):

No you wouldn't. Your tirade belies the fact that you do not want to have anything remotely resembling an honest discussion on race relations in America.

Agreed, given the OP's history, but maybe he's sincere..

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
You've already made up your mind on so many things and introduced so many side-rants in your OP that I don't think it's even possible from the onset to have a productive discussion.

I agree here to the letter.

But for as long as I've seen you ..and you me here, the race thing has been a point of contention - and in all that time, i've never seen you pose a question attempting to address the subject matter in this way..so I'll prove whatever limited input I can before the silly gene kicks in on some who don't know a sincere discussion when they see one.

Airliners.net itself has become more and more diversified in the time I've been here. It used to be heavily white and ultra conservative and extremely homophobic when I joined, many of those pressing that agenda have long parted. A sincere discussion of this nature is long overdue and I commend Slider for opening up about how the issue in the way he did. But he must also share some of the blame for is anxiety, discomfort and confusion. Look at your posts over the years regarding the subject - see if whether or not anything about you has changed. If nothing has, you should have a problem, but something is clearly at work for you express such frustration re:race.

I will used the 'side rant' sticker where appropriate.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
I followed the trial closely, something I have not done heretofore with any of these nationally captivating trials.

I followed this, the Simpson Trial and Rod King Police Trial with great tenacity as each had a profound effect on the nation before, during and after. Huge!

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
The state failed to prove its case.

From a legal stand point..it did.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
But one person is dead and another’s life is destroyed. No one has truly won here.

Yep totally true in part, because the defendant cleverly 'gamed' the system, he put 'Stand Your Ground' to the test, covered all his tracks (got caught lying) but made sure no one was around to refute his version...the perfect crime.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
It’s a real shame—although predictable—that this has become some perverse referendum on race relations in America.

Again you mean.

The Rodney King/LAPD case, trial did that

Then the OJ Simpson Trial did it again.

Now the George Zimmerman Trial did it a third time.

and count on there being a FOURTH and a fifth and maybe a sixth...

...because Americans don't learn from past mistakes or should I say they learn very slowly. And take everything for granted.

Look at the three trials in a case and effect (on the nation subsequently).

King/LAPD -
Black Motorist beaten brutally by white LAPD Officers (see youtube).
.... confirmed what Black America had said for decades about thuggish Police Brutality towards them - Racial profiling was born out of this trial. The (Warren) Christopher Commision was charged with addressing America's ills re:unjust treatment by the law of Black Americans

result - upon LAPD's acquittal after worldwide viewing of King being beaten senselessly, that verdict said Blacks could be beaten unmercifully by the law with impunity...riots set the nation on fire. The Warren Comm. Report partially implemented by largely discarded. Because as I said..we do not learn from our mistakes very well. It fizzled because authority does not like being told it is wrong.

MEDIA: Nationally, the media showed the King Beating endlessly, but pundits would NOT openly and viciously condemn the unapologetic LAPD as they deserved..the Media was tight lipped. Some exceptions were people like Phil Donohue and Jerry Springer.

----------------

OJ. Simpson Trial:
Black Wealthy Famous Male accused of brutal killing his White ex-wife and her male friend Ron Goldman.

If was the 1st time in American History, that 'Black America' saw someone like them (as far as being black goes only) who had the financial means to go toe-to-toe in the American Justice System Courts..it has never happened before. Many Blacks did not care if he were guilty or not..just that they wanted to a Black person take on the racist American Justice system and win.

Exactly how the most extreme whites feel about Zimmerman today - they don't care he lied, they don't care if he's really guilty..it was a black kid who looked like thug rapper and he needs to be gone...end of story.


Was it wrong for blacks to think/feel that way about Simpson, as in not care if he did it not? Yes and No. Yes because murder is acceptable in a civilized Society. NO because Society had not be civil to them so why should they be civil towards a system that completely disrespects their rights as a people? They had no faith in the system as is and had nothing to lose and everything to gain if the system gave them a win. And nearly all Black Jury found Simpson innocent and in large part to the testimony of Dr. Henry Lee disclosing horrific police work which was an indictment of the LAPD itself.. the worse and sloppiest gather of evidence ever along with suggestion that Det. Mark Furhman hadeven planted evidence - blew the case.

Did the racial make up of an all black jury have any impact on that case? Only a fool would say ' NO'... if that Jury had been All White...would he have been acquitted? Not a chance in hell! He'd would have been found guilty of two murder 1s.

Video of worldwide reactions - esp. the one in the Circuit City store where when the verdict was announce - whites were completely stunned..standing right next to them, Black customers were absolutely estatic! (see youtube -along with white salesman telling Blacks to be quiet).

Media: Nearly All Media had condemn Simpson, few if any gave him the sliver of presumed innocent. ALL of the guys over in the Zimmerman thread saying 'we'd rather see 10 guilty men go free than one innocent one got to jail' CANNOT bring themselves to say that about O.J. Simpson...their attitudes on race - towards Blacks, will not allow it. Simple as that. Even Geraldo Rivera went disgustingly bonkers disclosing his own animus towards blacks after appearing to be someone liberal in his prior views. He tried to tone it down..but the damage to his brand was done.

If you're white person today still getting incensed about the OJ Acquittal in 2013...it's race that's eating at you because I assure you do not know the facts presented in the trial. And even worse than that, it would shock you actually know what was at the very center of this trial that never came out in court - local insider info only.

That's the impact of Race Reality in America.

The Zimmerman Trial.

We know the story..but what white America doesn't see here and did not see in any of the other two examples
or does not care to see is all the race history that led up to these trials - for blacks injustice was expected at every turn..whites had no problems with 'their justice' as it has always worked for them..until O.J. and in their minds, it was that all black jury thing and to this very day..even with Zimmerman and his white jury - neither side trust the other in exclusive extremes. Translation...we've got a long what to go.

MEDIA: For the 1st time in American History, Media incorporated the viewpoint of Blacks in a nationwide case. And did so in a balanced manner (except for Fox News, were Trayvon a choirboy...maybe, just maybe they would have cut him some slack). Maybe just maybe some progress in National coverage of minority concerns - and yes it was brought on by demonstrations and outcries of injustice. At least someone gets that aside from the Egyptians...when something's not right....do something. The system WILL NOT correct itself. Look at how chicken sh!t we all were when the snuck the Patriot Act thru...we should have gone Egypt on Washington..but everyone was scared to death for fear of appearing 'un-American.

Those who draw a blank on race history..will turn and ask 'Why is this a Big Deal'.. your deficit and gaps in historical understanding should explain that.. your world is not the same as people constantly being harassed by the police or unbalanced Justice system when it comes to the administration of justice itself.

White caught with weed...let go
Black caught with wee...go to jail.

White citizens are aware of the law disparity and will intentionally exploit it. Again, Charles Stuart, Susan Smith, now George Zimmerman,.



--------------------

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
From the get-go, this entire thing was co-opted for political purposes, from the overzealous Angela Corey, who should be faced with prosecutorial misconduct IMO, to Obama with his inane “if I had a son” comment.

see above - side rant point.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
The police chief was cashiered because he wouldn’t prosecute, the police didn’t think it was appropriate either.

Look at who the police we're talking about, the poor State prosecution was born right there from piss poor police handling from minute one.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
The entire thing was hijacked by the race business, including the very distasteful moniker for Zimmerman “white Hispanic” by CNN (whatever the hell that means).

A lack of Race Knowledge again, 'White Hispanic has been around for quite sometime and really came alive during the Lyle and Erik Menendez trial.

But many Caucasian looking Hispanics like Zimmerman prefer identifying themselves as just 'white' they see it as advantageous...that is until he got his ass into a sling, it became and advantage to not be see as white but as Hispanic to counter racial profiling. As read aloud in the trial when it was testified to Zimmerman's police application in Virgina...He, Zimmerman 'checked' white. Not White Hispanic nor Hispanic. He can now go back to checking 'white' and he will because he is indeed a liar and fraud.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):

And in reading the torrential downpour of Tweets and comments from celebrities, athletes and pandering leftists

Side Rant point.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
I shudder to think of how dumbed-down we’ve become. It’s actually not even maddening—the ignorance and unjustified anger is just flat-out saddening.

Sorta side rant...not sure what to make of that..

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
I think Eric Holder belongs in jail for his criminality, but he was correct—indirectly and unintentionally—when he made that famous comment about us being cowards about race. He’s righ

He's meaning in the same way I see it.

When racial elements are present and some 'person' leaps up and says

'It's not about race..."

1 - it's a sure bet that person is the least qualified person even know what is and isn't about race.

2 - it most likely is indeed about race and race had everything to do with it.

..and yes Holder is correct MOST of us are cowards about speaking about race. I'm not, I find the it quite interesting to observe, it's a whole other human interaction .. good and bad on so many levels.

If you're married..and you're not 'Honest'...what eventually happens? It comes crumbling down.
America is built on racial divide, these new generations upon generations do improve a situation that had nothing to do with..until they become taxpaying, child rearing adults..then they become their parents and progress ceases.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
e want the pound of flesh from George Zimmerman, but we don’t hold “black leaders” responsible for their racist, inflammatory and inciteful comments (see Al Sharpton and ‘Reverend’ $hakedown Jack$on, most frequently).

The racist hallmark calling card if their ever was one, followed by, it's Affirmative Action causing the problems and the iron clad denial.."It's not racist, I've got a black friend or my black friend agrees with me.. newsflash, he does..but not when he's with his 'other black friends'...

Quoting slider (Thread starter):
The media can impugn, indict and ostracize anyone they choose at any time of their choosing, but won’t touch the tough issues associated with race.

explain... black don't control the media until they hit the streets.

Quoting slider (Thread starter):

Some call this a cold-blooded murder of an innocent black kid and riot in the streets, but yet there is NO mention in the mainstream media about Joshua Chellew
Quoting slider (Thread starter):
Does he not deserve justice as well? Or Antonio Santiago?

Yes they do, both heart-retching stories but you are trying to equate this will centuries of racial carnage and deaths...when you've had 100 years (and that's on the short side of things)... you may then say 'everything's equal'..we are not there yet.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I've seen it first-hand. My friend Folahan, who is quite Black (not African-American...he's Nigerian by ethnicity) was driving me somewhere one day. We were pulled over. Now, this is a Stanford-educated man who doesn't wear low-hanging jeans or an oversized baseball cap or a big diamond earring. Why were we pulled over? The officer could not give a single reason why he pulled him over. All he said when he walked up to the door was: "I need you to get out of the vehicle." Then, he looked in and saw me in the passenger seat and said, "Actually, wait a minute." He went back to his cruiser for about ten minutes and then came back. When Folahan asked why he'd been pulled over, the officer said that there had been a mistaken identity. I wrote down his badge number and filed a complaint.

A one time observation that is the everyday occurrence of a black male constant harassment..unending. And when starts as a child. why should they want accept a society who vanguard of law treats them with such constant indignities?

A gay male can some what relate, but only on a limited bases, he doesn't look at his skin and see a reminder of why he's harassed.

But everyone who doubts how bad it is...needs a few hundred of these experiences to get it sink in.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
the first thing that we are going to have to do is accept that racism DOES exist. And we are going to have to accept that many of us are racist, even those of us who wish we weren't. I am a horrible racist, although I accept it about myself and thus try to modulate my behavior with that knowledge in mind.

That's an RU list endorsement right there and the honest truth... few here will ever own up to that. Kudos!

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19717 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7266 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 11):
A gay male can some what relate, but only on a limited bases, he doesn't look at his skin and see a reminder of why he's harassed.

It's a fair point. But no different than antisemitism in that respect. All discrimination has its particular differences. Being an invisible minority has its pluses...and its minuses.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 11):
But everyone who doubts how bad it is...needs a few hundred of these experiences to get it sink in.

Bingo. The racist does not define racism. The object of the racism knows it when he sees it.

Are there falls calls? Sure. But that does not mean that there is no racism.


User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7263 times:

Easy. Stop making the gross assumption that because two people of different races are involved in a conflict that it is automatically racially motivated. There's a lot wrong with the whole Zimmerman/ Martin incident. There is a lot more wrong with the people external to the event and their motivations and what it has caused.

User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7254 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 10):
Obama has set America back decades in terms of 'race relations' by injecting himself prematurely into situations like the Zimmerman self defense shooting case. Perhaps Obama's time as a community organizer/agitator makes it difficult for him to sit on the sidelines while the legal system processes these cases. Either way, I agree that as long as there is money or political gain to be had by race baiting and agitating, America will be the worse for it. I know it's hard to believe for some, but not every interaction, transaction or criminal act involves race.

  

Yep funny thing is the media is feeding the frenzy that now young black youth will have to be in fear of the white man after the Zimmerman verdict when the fact remains that 94% of young black males who will be killed by violence will be at the hands of other young black males but no one wants to go there. The Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons make their living off keeping the race baiting going.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7239 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 14):
Yep funny thing is the media is feeding the frenzy that now young black youth will have to be in fear of the white man after the Zimmerman verdict when the fact remains that 94% of young black males who will be killed by violence will be at the hands of other young black males but no one wants to go there.

Then why was Zimmerman so worried about a black guy looking around "suspiciously"? Two thirds of all burglaries are made by whites.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2352 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7239 times:

It took me more than an hour to figure out an answer to this, and this is what I have to say IMHO....

If you look up the term "Race" it defies as a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical,etc. However this term is a victim of a double standard that is all too alive in America. People use this to their benefit when something does not work in their favor, and others use it as a "slang term" to make their music videos and tv shows more appealing.. Many people forget that we all look the same on the inside.

There are also some people who tend to forget that "Racism" isn't just a black and white issue, I myself am Caucasian and because I don't tan very well, I've been called "Albino, Q-Tip,etc" by a white, black and even Spanish people, at the end of the day not only does it hurt, but it ruins a persons self-esteem, however its only talked about when there is a reason to exploit it. The only way things get better is when people show some respect towards one another, and unfortunately that only tends to last for a short period of time after a massive tragedy ( i.e 9/11, Sandy Hook, Boston, etc ).

My mother taught me something when I was younger, and that's to TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED, and each day I do just that, and I found out 9 times out of 10 if you are kind and respectful towards one another, they will treat you with respect in the end.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3103 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 10):
Obama has set America back decades in terms of 'race relations' by injecting himself prematurely into situations like the Zimmerman self defense shooting case.

I don't see how we're set back decades in terms of race relations. We often say "You never understand a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes", so why do we criticize others when they do so? Speaking as if Trayvon was his son is something any parent would do, especially a parent whose child can be bullied or profiled just for who he/she is.

Obama's most recent remark urging restraint is something I would expect from a politician. He did not take any side, but of course, be that as it may, some people will criticize him whether he speaks or remains silent.

Like Doc said, racism exists in the US and to think otherwise is simply fooling yourself.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7197 times:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 13):
Easy. Stop making the gross assumption that because two people of different races are involved in a conflict that it is automatically racially motivated.

Not only that, but we can't assume that racism is a one way street. IMO, there is just as much (and please pardon me for these terms) black-on-white, black-on-brown, brown-on-black, and brown-on-white racism... and then there's Asians and Middle Easterners thrown in there too.

Not only that, but new terms have come into play. MLK's dream was that people would be judged by "the content of their character". Well, now we call that anti-cultural or xenophobic.

There are three groups that perpetrate such ideas: the actual racists/xenophobes, those who will use any excuse not to take responsibility for themselves, and those who profit from it all.


To tie it into the Trayvon Martin case, it is pretty sad (and very telling) that mass media and others are calling Zimmerman a racist for no other reason than Martin was black, and gloss over that Martin allegedly called Zimmerman a "cracker".



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
Then why was Zimmerman so worried about a black guy looking around "suspiciously"? Two thirds of all burglaries are made by whites.

Maybe not in his neighborhood. I know in mine it is overwhelmingly blacks comitting those crimes. I never used to think anything about it until I was held up at gunpoint by 4 young black males right in front of my own house. So do I profile now? You bet your ass I do. Now I wouldn't go as far as Zimmerman did. But if I see anyone acting suspicious and they do not nessessarily have to be black either I am just more aware of my surroundings now. Bottom line as a percentage blacks disproportionatley commit crimes more than any other race. Sorry if it offends but it is what it is. Until black parents start taking responsiblity for raising their kids instead of just letting them run the streets to join gangs and become hood rats they are going to continue to be profiled.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10032 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7163 times:
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I don't have any magical solutions to the "race issue" in the US. And I'll freely admit that I harbor some racist thoughts and tendencies. I grew up in an area that's 95% white, and while I wouldn't call it a racist area, you tend to gravitate toward that which you know. It's actually quite funny to me, because I'm not even white!

When I moved to LA, it was quite a culture shock. Took me many years to adjust. I now live in a more mixed area than I used to, and I really like it. I still gravitate toward the nicer areas - and yes, those areas tend to be majority-white - but I'm light-years ahead of where I was 10 years ago. And really, there's nothing wrong with gravitating toward nicer areas.

I don't even particularly like hanging out with other Indian-Americans that much, and I've never dated Indian-American girls. There's nothing wrong with Indian-Americans, but it's never been my scene. I've never had the need or desire to specifically hang out with my ethnic group.

Regarding Zimmerman, it seems to me that the jury found the correct verdict. I don't pretend to know any more about the circumstances of the killing than anyone else does, but I'd wager quite a bit that there certainly was reasonable doubt.

For reference, I'm guessing the OJ jurors also found the correct verdict, though I was younger and not paying as much attention then. It was very easy to say "OMG, how could they do that???" But given the police, um, errors, they probably just couldn't convict. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

Back to Zimmerman - people seem to be outraged that no one is being held accountable for TM's death. I don't understand that outrage. Holding someone - anyone - accountable should never enter the discussion. The justice system is there to determine whether a particular person - in this case Zimmerman - is accountable, not to see if we can fit accountability to Zimmerman by any means necessary. I hear people saying some variant of "it's sad that no one is being held responsible" with reference to the verdict. Come on now - that's just a terrible argument to use in order to say that one particular person should have been convicted. It's an emotional, revenge-based argument.

Others say that Zimmerman escalated the confrontation. Perhaps he did, and perhaps he should have been charged with a crime for it (I don't know Florida law). But obviously not 2nd-degree murder or manslaughter. Unfortunately, that's what they tried him for, and they lost (justifiably, I think).

Anyway. You're probably never going to be able to stop people from judging each other without really knowing each other. I judge all the time, based on all sorts of different criteria. What you can stop, or at least reduce, is people acting on those judgments. My initial judgments have quite often been wrong, and I'm usually very happy about that.

I hope this makes some semblance of sense, because I'm way too tired to read it over.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7155 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 19):
Maybe not in his neighborhood.

You're missing the point. He was using statistics to justify profiling. By that ,poor, standard you should look for white people in relation to burglaries.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):
people seem to be outraged that no one is being held accountable for TM's death. I don't understand that outrage.

Before you I have not seen any of this. IMO it is what Dear Coquette in her typical to the point described as:

"Any system that would allow George Zimmerman to legally carry a concealed weapon, legally hunt down a teenager he felt was suspicious, legally confront that teenager against the instruction of authorities, and then legally use deadly force in the resulting altercation — I mean, come on — any system that would legally allow all of that is fucking broken."


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7141 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 19):
Bottom line as a percentage blacks disproportionatley commit crimes more than any other race. Sorry if it offends but it is what it is.

Careful.

Black people are arrested and convicted disproportionately more than any other race. No doubt do to racial biases like this:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 19):
Until black parents start taking responsiblity for raising their kids instead of just letting them run the streets to join gangs and become hood rats they are going to continue to be profiled.

Right... because White parents and Hispanic parents never do anything wrong, and Black parents can never do anything right.

Need I remind you that one of the most violent gangs, MS13, are Salvadorian? Los Zetas are Mexican, there's the Aryan Brotherhood... need I go on?

Quoting cmf (Reply 21):
"Any system that would allow George Zimmerman to legally carry a concealed weapon, legally hunt down a teenager he felt was suspicious, legally confront that teenager against the instruction of authorities, and then legally use deadly force in the resulting altercation — I mean, come on — any system that would legally allow all of that is fucking broken."

Cool story. Too bad that's not what happened. Good use of hyperbole and twisting of the facts, with a nice touch of anti-gun rehtoric and extreme socialism.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
Too bad that's not what happened.

What is factually incorrect? It was Zimmerman who kept following Martin thus causing the confrontation. And how in the world is the above socialist? Already down to the stereotyping...


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 23):
What is factually incorrect?

"Legally confront that teenager against the instruction of authorities".

911 dispatchers are not "authorities", in the sense they can not give orders. Also, after he had been told that it wasn't a good idea to follow, he stopped following.

Quoting cmf (Reply 23):
It was Zimmerman who kept following Martin thus causing the confrontation.

Yep, you keep saying this. Just like if the rape victim hadn't flashed her boobs, she never would have caused the rapist to take notice.

Just because you "cause" something doesn't mean your legally responsible.

Quoting cmf (Reply 23):
And how in the world is the above socialist?

I actually should have used the term "statist". The individual has no rights or interest in keeping the peace or protecting their community or themselves. Let the state worry about everything.

What's funny about her "broken system" comment, is that if "the authorities" were as good and wise as she wants them to be, there would be no need for anyone to follow anyone, because the previous burglaries would have already been solved and/or prevented.

Just because a system isn't perfect doesn't make it broken.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5520 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 23):
It was Zimmerman who kept following Martin thus causing the confrontation.

As I understood the testimony, this is not correct; was this not a key issue in the defense case?



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
25 cmf : No-one said they gave orders. They instructed him not to follow. Look at the reenactment and it is clear he didn't stop. It is Zimmerman who said he
26 cmf : It was Zimmerman who decided he didn't like the looks of Martin. It was Zimmerman who followed Martin, picking up the trail three different times. I
27 seb146 : I really don't think there is anything we can do until people quit the whole "us vs. them" mentality. The whole notion that if one or a few do it, the
28 DeltaMD90 : I'm gonna disagree with you here. I think too many people are judging GZ by what they think the law should be. I've said more than once there needs t
29 cmf : I consider this a confirmation that the laws need to be clearer. Have I suggested it was racist? I have consistently said his fault was to follow Mar
30 stratosphere : Yep thats why in LA or the desert SW they are profiled as well.. Hey stereotypes sometimes fit when detectives are looking for a serial killer they u
31 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I completely agree. I think the current law is inadequate and it ties in with my whole entire gun control ideas And sorry cmf! The first paragraph wa
32 stratosphere : And just what is that? ... This is my problem with liberals Chicago has strict gun control and has more gun violence than almost anywhere in the coun
33 windy95 : But then why is our president who is 1/2 white and 1/2 kenyan called a African-American? To play the race game that is why causing more harm to race
34 Boeing717200 : I'll try to remember this the next time people in here trash religion. Racism, homophobia, religious bigotry. It's all the same.[Edited 2013-07-16 06
35 cmf : Not with the person claiming self defense initiating it by following and picking up the trail twice. None of that is relevant as it doesn't change th
36 slider : I am quite sincere here. But why don't you post some of that history. If you're calling me out, go find some of those posts...if you're going to accu
37 windy95 : Correct they based this case on race and when they found out that Zimmerman was 100% caucasian then they had to spin with the white hispanic. This is
38 Post contains links and images Mir : Here's a great video about just how bad racial profiling is: http://www.upworthy.com/know-anyone-...-and-tell-me-when-your-jaw-drops-2 Do DAs see the
39 Post contains links windy95 : Part of race that has not been covered in this case by the mainstream media is the problems in the Miami Dade School system. The Police in the school
40 windy95 : He was not an "innocent" Kid. And this continues to part of the big lie. If he had been busted for the theft of the jewelery in his posession then he
41 casinterest : Why do you keep bringing this up. It is a perfect example of bias and profiling in this case. What happened in Miami does not have a bearing on why Z
42 WestJet747 : You've never smoked weed before, have you?
43 StarAC17 : If GZ didn't have a gun he probably wouldn't have left his car. Did GZ he not profile in this case?? I'm not saying that TM was an angel but it is ex
44 slider : But the jury didn't know that. We out here in the cheap seats put together a profile perhaps, but all of that information--including Martin's text me
45 Post contains links BN747 : This thread.. Blacks Being Pimped By The DNC (by Wilax Aug 9 2004 in Non Aviation) and this one African American Chat (Multiple Issues) (by TedTAce S
46 Post contains images casinterest : I never said profiling was a bad thing. GZ wasn't an angel either. He had charges raised and dropped as well. Profiling isn't a bad thing ,but it is
47 Post contains images n318ea : If anyone is confused by their :facts," it's you. The Jesse Jackson's an Al Sharpton's, NAACP are not in Chicago because they can't make any money. P
48 BN747 : ..and there is the perfect concrete mindset that keeps the worse kind of racism firmly entrenched in American Society.. one can only imagine if someo
49 n318ea : (CNSNews.com) – In the 20-day period of the George Zimmerman trial, four minors – three teens and a five-year-old boy - were gunned down in Chicag
50 cmf : Did you forget to add your personal comment?
51 PPVRA : Well, minorities are disadvantaged in a democracy because they simply don't have enough votes. In practical terms, their issues won't bubble up to the
52 slider : LOL! You’re reaching. “Kudos Wilax....I respect you a great deal for having the courage to admit your beliefs...but to the poverty pimps of the l
53 n229nw : About sums it up. I think the jury came to the verdict they had to, but that doesn't mean that something isn't very broken. It's hard to see these tw
54 BN747 : That right there is Paula Deen's problem..not saying the 'n-word' .. but a state of mind. You and her (and those that think like you) have this list
55 Post contains links AM744 : "White Hispanic" does have meaning. 'Hispanic' is not a 'race', but an ethnicity: language, religion, cultural practices. Think of Sammy Sosa, Edward
56 DeltaMD90 : Not a gun control thread so I won't go into too much detail, but I think there are a lot of good measures that could be put in place that are not unr
57 Maverick623 : No, it really isn't. Unless you believe you can choose your race or sexual orientation... oh, wait... you can't.
58 DeltaMD90 : Technically, you really can't. You can choose how you act upon your beliefs, but you can't change them just like that. If I held a gun up to an athei
59 Mir : Neither could change them on a dime, but they could eventually change them if they wanted to. That can't be said for race or sexual orientation. -Mir
60 DeltaMD90 : I don't know, if you're an atheist and don't buy into religion I don't see how you can eventually believe. Not really my point though, I don't think
61 windy95 : This thread actually shows your racism with your first post You forgot to add white....And imply that it is whites who commit "hate" crimes. And hone
62 RussianJet : Because it's the best and easiest excuse for everything. The race card can trump all. The constant introduction of race into every single blasted iss
63 Boeing717200 : The issue isn't what you are or what you believe. The issue is that you are discriminated against for what your are or what you believe. So yes, it i
64 casinterest : It is Bias and Profiling 100%. You are using expected behavior based on your current knowledge of what Martin was , to justify Zimmerman's actions ag
65 slider : OK, that's an interesting spin on that. I've been thinking about it. I can understand that reversal of perspective there. However, here's my take on
66 thesultanofwing : No, it sounds rather warm and caring.......or did you perhaps want to say "could NOT care less"? The two phrases mean the opposite.....
67 BN747 : I could not agree more..and where has your RESPONSIBILITY been over all the years of your quips and quotes regarding this very issue? Playing it safe
68 windy95 : No, you are spinning my words the wrong way. Zimmermans actions and what I think of Trayvon now are two seperate things that you keep trying to join
69 Mir : Yes he was. He had done nothing wrong that night until Zimmerman decided that he looked suspicious and decided to be the hero. Zimmerman had no idea
70 windy95 : But it relavant to Trayvons actions that night. Drugs, theft and punching a school bus driver all are relavant to what he was doing and did that nigh
71 WestJet747 : I consider his lack of reply to be in the affirmative.
72 SoJo : I thought this thread was about race relations in America? What exactly is race relations? Does that mean one of your parents was of different colour
73 BN747 : What exactly does that mean? BN747
74 SoJo : Exactly what it says. Black , white, any other colour you care to think about. Chuck 'em in a blender and you get? What colour? Tell me what you thin
75 BN747 : The only person to every chunk someone up into a blender was Jeffery Dahmer.. your hypothesis has no real world applications, I've no idea have you'r
76 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I'd be careful there... you're turning your speculation into fact. Do you have proof of theft? Drugs (especially pot) can be completely benign (usual
77 Mir : They're relevant to going to a convenience store and getting some iced tea and skittles? Let's not pretend that's even remotely true. He tried to fol
78 sccutler : In any event, young Mr. Martin's behavior in other circumstances, while perhaps interesting to look at for an overall picture of the person, was not
79 slider : Guys, for real, no rehash of the trial or criminal details...we have plenty of other threads for that. Heck, that's a good question. I suppose it's to
80 windy95 : He trashed himself. And he was not a kid.. We had already seen this. The mainstream media did everything they could to bring out his past while posti
81 SmittyOne : Unfortunately "race" and "ethnicity" in the US are political terms for political purposes...case in point this Zimmerman/Martin clash reflexively bei
82 Post contains links slider : Well said by Edmund Wright... Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...s_the_new_nigga.html#ixzz2ZPSYQsGp
83 BN747 : You have kids, and your age..a 17yo is a kid. You're on about Martin so hard and backing the Child Molester so blindly .. you are indeed the sterling
84 Post contains images Mir : Yes, because teenagers never do anything stupid, and any little thing they do should follow them for the rest of their lives. -Mir
85 cws818 : His father lived there. That's not a good reason to be in Sanford? Many people, fortunately, are colorblind. Unfortunately, we don't have a colorblin
86 BN747 : And you and Edmund Wright are among the many who wants to escape the price of centuries Racism Inflicted Damage. The strategy: Blame the very people
87 sccutler : Oh my, yes; many use racial animus in a carefully-calculated scheme to wield power or influence policy. One need only look at the means and methods u
88 BN747 : Again, the tactic of False Equivalency or your failure to really look at each with equal scrutiny. David Duke - Mission: Maintain and expand the noti
89 sccutler : Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. There are many who are deeply skeptical of Mr. Sharpton's motives. Having observed his behavior at length,
90 BN747 : That is not the case I am speaking directly to those who get completely twisted in knots when the conversation comes up...they know who they are. Asi
91 windy95 : At 17 I had been working a full time job for two years already through high school and then joined the military and had finished boot camp and tech s
92 SmittyOne : What people are tired of is the fact that an honest discussion of this issue cannot take place while one of the parties is assumed (solely due to the
93 2707200X : He was not a top kid but he should have not been dead by Zimmerman or any other neighborhood patrol people. Where is his life value? He should have c
94 DeltaMD90 : I agree with the not guilty aspect (even though I disagree with GZ's actions, I just don't see them technically illegal) and yes the media bias is di
95 BN747 : Oh, wait... mr. ideal kid, it ain't about you. And most kids these days aren't you..not even close. So extract measuring yourself up against anyone..
96 2707200X : Speaking from the perspective that Zimmerman was given the shaft from the media meaning from his perspective of the MSM, the FOX News people where si
97 DeltaMD90 : I don't understand what you are saying. But no, the bias against GZ was bad and the bias against TM was bad. It's also bad that some of the same peop
98 DocLightning : Genetically, African-Americans are a mix of people extracted from the western and central coast of Africa and brought here as slaves. That is a diffe
99 Post contains links DeltaMD90 : I used to think it was just broken English they spoke, but I was surprised to find out that it's a very distinct dialect with actual rules (in other
100 SmittyOne : Sorry man but I'm not going to take a college course in why the black community can't get their act together. Jackson and Sharpton are the ones who a
101 DocLightning : Yes. It is a patois of sorts.
102 windy95 : No he did not deserve to die but he was on top of Zimmerman and we all know the result's. Once again you are assuming that TM was innocent in all of
103 cmf : You don't know Martin went back and chased down Zimmerman. Listen to the reenactment, which obviously paint Zimmerman in the best possible light, and
104 BN747 : Wow..I'm stunned at how DeltaMD90 has a better grasp of this particular area than you do. And I'm even more stunned that this is the best way for you
105 StarAC17 : What your are describing is the "Castle Doctrine" which allows you to shoot to kill when your home is being invaded and you have no duty to retreat.
106 BN747 : These guys don't see that, the only see one side causing problems. ...and you'd lose your cash faster than a losing lottery ticket. Particularly not
107 3DoorsDown : For our president CNN should start using "white black" or "European-American African-American" for the PC freaks. Since CNN would say it I am sure no
108 DocLightning : No, I work in underserved communities. I have ever since I finished medical school. I see way too many low-riding pants, I see too many kids glorifyi
109 SmittyOne : Ah, yes the labeling that I predicted would occur when I attempted to turn the conversation back to individuals taking ownership of their problems. I
110 BN747 : Dude, wake up.. the American Dream is dead. Just ask any group of pilots who've lost lifelong pensions thru no fault of their own. The societal end g
111 SmittyOne : Point of order, I am not a fan of the Republican Party, not from the South, and have never lived in a cave. You're making the same leaps that you acc
112 Post contains links DocLightning : I'm sorry, but you are still claiming that behavior is racial. The Nazis claimed that. I don't. Every. Single. Day. Your culture is visible in your d
113 n229nw : These younger whites may not be racist personally, but they certainly still enjoy "white privilege" every day of their lives. I think that bike video
114 RayChuang : I think in the end, African-Americans are let down by the actions of their political leaders. And we have a very clear example of this: the financial
115 DocLightning : Very true. I think that an admission that "white privilege" exists is important. However, have you noticed that there are other races that get the pa
116 SmittyOne : Agreed, the empirical data is undeniable. But by the same token anyone with their eyes open can see blacks stacking a lot of the cards against other
117 BN747 : Reading what you've written...one would be hard pressed to guess other wise - seriously! That's not even a centimeter left of center and seriously ha
118 DocLightning : You're putting words in my mouth. I never called them that. I don't think you're even reading my posts. I'm done arguing with you.
119 WestJet747 : Sounds like you're saying all right wingers are racist...
120 Post contains links BN747 : No it isn't..it would be were it an even playing field from day-one, you'd have a leg to stand on.. it wasn't and it isn't. well you certainly didn't
121 SmittyOne : That regardless of the situation, responding to verbal harassment with violence is not the way for young men to solve their problems. Especially youn
122 WestJet747 : To borrow one of your lines from Reply 110..."If you're going to level the charge at me.. substantiate the charge." Honest question: Are you capable
123 BN747 : Honest question... answer this honestly, these below are just from one of single post... did you miss them our were just hunting out my replies? Do y
124 WestJet747 : You're deflecting. Of course SmittyOne shouldn't have made those personal attacks (whether in retaliation to your initial insults or not), but that d
125 Post contains links BN747 : I sent you a pm answering the above as it does not pertain to the thread subject. You have no history of attacking me so I see no reason to be anythi
126 Post contains images WestJet747 : Received and replied. Much appreciated. I like to think I'm more well-read on American history in general than the typical non-American twenty-someth
127 BN747 : That's one of the cool things about this place. Can't argue that whichever way they get there, they end up there. But there are really bright people
128 SmittyOne : And yet you are comfortable deeming this a racial issue and convicting Zimmerman of murder. So I guess we're both guilty on this charge. It obviously
129 Post contains links ImperialEagle : Interesting Op/Ed in todays Wall Street Journal:
130 SmittyOne : You say stereotypes, I say characterizations of an issue that have been confirmed by what I have experienced and am seeing right now. If you are putt
131 sccutler : Seriously? One supposes that, if you arbitrarily restrict which racially-motivated hatred constitutes "racism," you could draw this conclusion. But,
132 Post contains links ImperialEagle : On today's "Talking Points" with Bill O'Reilly, an interesting opinion. http://video.foxnews.com/v/256042213...the-race-problem-/?test=latestnews O'Re
133 Post contains links SmittyOne : BN747, since you are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman is a racist, lying murderer I recommend that you at least read this sur
134 SmittyOne : I disagree with O'Reilly on a lot of things (like religion), but he hits the nail on the head here.
135 WestJet747 : I completed the survey and submitted my answers. I'm curious as to where you found this survey though...or at least what dlas.org is (since it leads
136 SmittyOne : Absolutely agree that it was a terrible survey. I found value in the documented details of Zimmerman and the case that I had not seen previously.
137 Smittyone : Sorry I neglected to answer this...found the link to the survey in a Facebook feed. Frankly it's unfortunate that the author chose to present it as a
138 WestJet747 : Same here. I'd say about 25-30% of the information there I had not heard or seen before. I suspect that this "media project" may be some college kids
139 BN747 : It is a racial issue because I think you're the only who actually believes Zimmerman would have taken the very same actions had he encountered a 17yo
140 windy95 : Actually it has been proven if you would of read some of the links that I have posted. The jewelery in his locker was linked to a break in two blocks
141 Smittyone : I agree with you there. He probably would not have responded the same way if it were a 17 year old girl. Not sure if it is a pat on my back but yes I
142 Smittyone : BN747; Sorry I had to run out and cut my previous reply short. Regrettably this discussion continues to be about me rather than the points I have trie
143 BN747 : This is why perfect types like you, Rush and OReilly who have never done anything wrong need to clam up..you have nothing in common with the rest of
144 Post contains images PSA53 : What do I think? Grade D+ After the Rev.Wright and Zimmerman cases, I squarely put continue promotion of racism on the media! The Ultra liberal PC clu
145 Smittyone : My response to all of these quotes is that I truly have no one with whom to discuss this kind of thing and never really have. So good I guess because
146 BN747 : That's one thing A.net is certainly used for a lot! People constantly discussing things they won't do in public or with others. I heeded early on tha
147 Smittyone : Many thanks!
148 cptkrell : Damn...I really wanted to avoid this topic, but IF it hasn't been previously expoused (hard to read a zillion replies without my reading glasses plus
149 soon7x7 : I've got some "Firsts" for you... 1965...The First time an American Blackman scared me...as a child going to ride our hoarse passing through Wyandanc
150 BN747 : And I've some 'Facts' for you .. since you chose to comment directly to me.. Your great list of good and bad 'black experiences do not qualify you to
151 soon7x7 : I'm not taking your bait...I simply stated some real life firsts as I experienced them from Blacks, not Latinos, not Muslims, not any one else. So wh
152 BN747 : There is no bait to be had.. just you, a full grown adult being shown being shown how foolish your simple observations give nothing but a lame excuse
153 soon7x7 : You are correct Sir...I should have known better than to play with fire here. I am now much wiser and truly enlightened, I have seen the light! LOL!
154 soon7x7 : BN747... Truth of the matter is and I'll admit, you called me out on it...I did not read all the posts as your list caught my eye...I should have take
155 Post contains links AeroWesty : Stunning story in the Atlanta paper: Informal ‘White Student Union’ started at Georgia State Inspired by the White Student Union at Towson Univers
156 Post contains links BN747 : There will be more of this kind of stuff as more and more people (who don't know history) feel threatened - expect it and worse. This took it to the
157 soon7x7 : Stunning?...not really...equality is more like it...The campus can have a "Black Student Alliance" then Whites are entitled to a "White student Union
158 PSA53 : I don't have a problem with that.The formation of European American groups is long overdue.The PC club do.But the heck with them.
159 AeroWesty : The black community needs to decide, once and for all, if the n-word is offensive enough not to use it themselves, no ifs ands or buts. Either be off
160 BN747 : That's where you're wrong... The LGBT Community owning the f-word is by surrendered by default because everyone realizes it's wrong. Any actor, Isaia
161 AeroWesty : You're forgetting that we took back queer. That's a powerless word now. Its overuse, especially by entertainers, will sometime in the future make it
162 DeltaMD90 : I haven't seen every corner of American youth, but I've seen my fair share (not just white) but the word "nigga" (with an -a and not an -er) is used
163 Post contains links BN747 : I'm sure somewhere, some place..someone still knows how use it in a stinging manner towards some poor kid who may be in closet and have no supporting
164 AeroWesty : Like any word which goes out of favor, this one will take a little time to totally transform as well. In the mainstream, however, queer doesn't have
165 soon7x7 : If you are sincere about improving race relations then you have to leave the past to the history books. You can't re build new, ...with the old. If t
166 BN747 : True, the international implication was just a hint of the terrain that lies ahead if the USA ever grows up. That's just the easiest handle to grasp
167 Post contains links AeroWesty : Uh huh, just like one of our congressional leaders exposes his 'state of mind'? Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY), representing New York's Harlem district i
168 Pellegrine : I didn't read the content of this thread, because the title is inflammatory enough and I didn't want to be tainted. America never did anything about i
169 slider : So here's the question--and it's not a hypothetical--why can he say cracker and white people can't use the N word? If someone can explain that intell
170 Post contains links AeroWesty : Because you can spell out cracker in polite company, while you can't spell out the n-word. That, according to people here like BN747, is because blac
171 DeltaMD90 : And what is the reaction gonna be, are people gonna say both instances are wrong or are they gonna split hairs and argue that the n word differs from
172 cptkrell : Well, as long as groups of people keep hijacking words and/or terms to facilitate whatever they are trying to facilitate and it becomes one way or ano
173 Post contains images AeroWesty : Of course you may. If anyone messes with you about it, just tell 'em that The International Homo of Mystery has your back on it.
174 cptkrell : I guess I'm out of the loop (again). What in the world is "The International Homo of Mystery"? ...jack
175 AeroWesty : It's a play on Austin Powers' International Man of Mystery from the film series.
176 cptkrell : O.K. Got it. To my small degree of excuse, I'm not an Austin Powers series fan, so that went down yonder with me. Thanks....jack
177 BN747 : Clearly not a sports fan thus seeing it as 'railing'... as opposed to the ability to perceive Coopers unique situation beyond the elementary and simp
178 AeroWesty : It's becoming quite apparent that you have a serious problem whereby you conflate personal views with examples given. If I were to post a link explai
179 soon7x7 : It originated from the "crack " of whips being used on "Cattle" in the days of early Florida by White settlers...not Slaves...Must you always spin?
180 BN747 : You do know that there were Black Slaves in North America before there were white cattlemen in Florida don't you? And Florida was a colony of Spain,
181 AeroWesty : Yes, and I proudly used the link at random from a Google list of stories to show that I'm not adverse to using a wide spectrum of sources, in compari
182 soon7x7 : Do yourself a favor and google the story about an 11 year black Child from Memphis. His name is "Moziah Bridges", the founder/owner of an established
183 WestJet747 : It probably has to do in large with how it's perceived by the person it's directed at. Many black people find the N-word incredibly offensive because
184 BN747 : Moaning and groaning? Where? I've done very well for myself, at age 23 I had 15 full time employees..how many do you have now? I'm now about to under
185 Post contains images windy95 : native Floridians. Correct. The term is from Florida and a Florida cracker is a term for Yes but the term is from Florida cattlemen. Who is being opp
186 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Geez, what is the point of arguing where the word cracker came from. What matters now is that it's disrespectful. I'll agree with BN747 (yup, you hear
187 BN747 : Then you come along and prove me right... Yes .. a Rush Limbaugh kead ballon claim which you ate up like a ham sandwich. If that's true...whose respo
188 soon7x7 : I'm a white conservative and the "N" word is not part of my vernacular. Your just a "One Way Sign" blowing in the wind. BN747... The recent rants abo
189 BN747 : Sure it isn't, this is the internet and one can paint themselves as pure as Caspar the Friendly Ghost if they wanted to. It doesn't matter however, I
190 soon7x7 : Funny, yesterday I went to Home Depot to browse through some needed materials and a very large Black Gentleman assisted me, actually I sought his hel
191 BN747 : It's almost as if you only read YOUR posts and no one elses in this entire thread. But very interesting that you tried to have an in-depth discussion
192 sccutler : This is, arguably, the strangest thing I have ever read, here or anywhere else. You seem to have gotten the term "conservative" confused in your mind
193 BN747 : Well, all I can say is when reading Race related stories and focusing on the comment section be it Yahoo, Huffington Post, Slate, Fox News, Huckabee'
194 sccutler : The only time I have observed commentary to the effect that "the N-word" (I can't even say it out loud, as in my home as a child, its use would have
195 BN747 : No I do not, this is just how these people unequivocally identify themselves. I know Conservative White males who'd never align themselves with the t
196 Smittyone : Since we crossed swords earlier in the thread I just wanted to make it perfectly clear that I harbor no desire for permission to use the "N" bomb or
197 sccutler : One idly wonders: if one wished to advocate against the essential principles of conservatism (absolute protection of the rights of individuals, less-
198 windy95 : Like a great Republican once said But sadly it is the Democrats that continue to sort people by the color of their skin.
199 sccutler : For some, continuing the war is more important than achieving the victory, for 'tis said, "...a soldier without a battlefield is lost, indeed!"
200 BN747 : You would not be the 1st..but certainly one of the first to admit it. Most certainly will never own up to that fact because it is a favorite weapon f
201 sccutler : Nope. The purpose of a stereotype is to portray a group as possessing characteristics which they do not, based solely upon their membership in that g
202 BN747 : That's a perfect example of errant, false and deceptive beliefs muddying the waters of truth. You endorsing a comment (of the many foolish claims mad
203 Post contains images sccutler : Wise old sage, my first lawyer boss, once told me: "If you have the law on your side, argue the law; If the facts fall your way, argue the facts; and
204 BN747 : That's great..hopefully his quotes will get you thru 'real life' that, sadly for your boss....exist outside court rooms. BN747
205 Smittyone : Haha, no...her style would be more kicking in the nuts. But seriously after discussing this at length I recognized that I'd fallen into the trap of t
206 Post contains links flymia : Thought this is an interesting article and fairly on point to some of the issues in this thread. IMO a decent job by CNN surprisingly: http://www.cnn.
207 soon7x7 : No comments yet?...not surprised...White man out for a jog, 23 years of age shot in the spine by a white hating black child, 15 years of age? Who teac
208 BN747 : This article doesn't belong here anymore than a in-depth Zimmerman discussion and you know it.. but you intentionally threw it in here in order to so
209 flymia : Sorry you feel that way but I truly do find the reactions to the Zimmerman case and now this case very interesting. I find how different the reaction
210 Post contains links melpax : Absoutly. Naturally, this has been on the front page of both of the main papers here in MEL for most of the week, the focus here has been on the fact
211 windy95 : Why not? Because you are the resident race expert and have decided it so? At least three high profile black on white crimes recently and nothing from
212 usxguy : how many times did they have to bleep out "N*gger" tonight on the MTV VMA's... while blacks are still calling for Paula Deen's head since she used the
213 cmf : Isn't that you showing your hate for the people you label such? There is a big difference between these cases and the Zimmerman case that some people
214 flymia : True. And I pointed that out. At the same time after he was arrested and trial was set in motion the racial card was still out there. It was still ab
215 cmf : Zimmerman was(is) a moron for creating the confrontation. You should know why. Because there were signs Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was blac
216 Post contains links slider : I gave up on this thread when it became a clear racial smearfest early on. BUt this editorial hits a lot of nails... http://www.americanthinker.com/20
217 BN747 : If Americans fail to learn their lessons (and they won't) regarding this subject... whites may need 'a leader' in that new world. What types are keep
218 flymia : What I want is there to be no racial outrage unless it is clearly a racial problem. I am not surprised there was little to no racial outrage to this
219 cmf : How can you so categorically claim what my experience is? How innocent are you? Having spent a fair amount of time studying the Zimmerman case I have
220 stratosphere : Answer me this BN...Why have other minorities in this country made successes of themselves as a whole and African Americans have by and large have no
221 flymia : I do beleive that family values and family as a whole is a big problem in this country as a whole. It is an even larger problem in the black communit
222 cmf : I think Zimmerman got away with murder. It had very little to do with race. The race card was played very dishonestly in the Zimmerman case. It is pl
223 BN747 : I didn't .. I was agreeing with your comment about the Zimmerman case. And I'm not innocent as pointed out in earlier posts as well as other related
224 Post contains links flymia : Sorry that I don't beleive the President, one who is even a lawyer shoud be making remarks about an on-going trial/investigation. I guess that's too
225 seb146 : Why is that? There was a shooting of an unarmed teen but law enforcement saw fit to let the shooter go. Leaving race aside, that pisses me off right
226 BN747 : As you've shown, you know very little about the 'understanding' anything about the black community outside of 'statistics'.. no matter how much volun
227 SmittyOne : BN747, what do you think the answer is here? What does "success" look like 50 or 100 years from now and what concrete actions do you think would be n
228 BN747 : I answered that here I believe... When 'intellect' was applied in science.. I took us away from believing that 'thunder and lightning, floods and ear
229 seb146 : What gets me is: cities make "no loitering" laws that force these people to move on. So, they do. That only shifts the problem to another community.
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