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States' Political Diversity  
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3362 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

I've been wondering this for quite some time. We have states that are firmly in the hands of one party or the other. Examples include Massachusetts with all House seats, two senators, and the state in the hands of Democrats and Idaho in the same position but in the hands of the GOP. These states also have voted solidly for the respective parties in nearly all presidential elections.

Now, how come some states vote red some ways and blue another?

Take Montana for instance: its sole House representative is from the GOP. Its two senators are Democrats. Last year it gave 3 votes to Romney, yet it has a Democrat governor with a Legislature in GOP control.

Missouri is another (redder) example: Has a 6-2 GOP-Democrat representation in the House, one GOP senator, one Democrat senator, a Democrat governor, with a GOP legislature, and since 2000 has given its electoral votes to the GOP.

Anyone care to discuss why this happens? Why some states have a political diversity in each branch and level? How come some states have enough votes to send a Democrat delegate to Congress or elect a Democrat for governor, yet not enough to give their votes to the Democrat candidate for president (or vice versa in the GOP's case)?


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

I think the moderate population is often overlooked. Everyone says Democrats or Republicans, but isn't it about an even split (more or less) or Democrats, Republicans, AND moderates? Anyway, my guess is the more blue states have more Democrats and the moderates don't have as much of an influence, same with heavily red states. Your moderate states probably have about equal Democrats and Republicans, so the moderates, who have no allegiance to any party, mix things up.


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
Missouri is another (redder) example: Has a 6-2 GOP-Democrat representation in the House, one GOP senator, one Democrat senator, a Democrat governor, with a GOP legislature, and since 2000 has given its electoral votes to the GOP

The inner city votes Democrat, suburbanites are split (the lower and lower middle class Democrats outweighed the better off Republican voters) and rural rednecks vote Republican. That's how the 2012 Presidential race went.

Illinois is the same way. On a national level, it always skews way blue because of the Chicago Democratic machine plus some of the downstate urban areas but broken down on the state level it's a more even split: Chicago is a political smurf while the suburbs, generally the wealthier ones: Hinsdale (per capita income $75,596), Downers Grove ($73,353) and Wheaton ($41,353 but recognized as a very wealthy area) and downstate is much more evenly split.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7944 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Your example with Montana- that governor is a blue dog democrat, and most montanans are quite moderate, from my experience.

It all has to do with region. You can't expect a diverse USA to be politically homogeneous. It's impossible, and any attempts to impose will be met with such protests like the Tea Party and the Occupy thing.



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User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

That's the difficulty of a two parties system, if there were more you might see some of those "mixed" states with politicians hailing from a centrist party, "really red" states be all "tea party" while really blue would be all social-democrats and greens or something like that.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Well...I am from WI and WI is a deep purple state. Madison and Milwaukee, where a good number of people in this state are, are very Liberal, where the suburbs around Milwaukee and areas such as Eau Claire and Wassau are Conservative. The Appleton-Green Bay area is very evenly divided, with a slight tilt right because there is a huge devout catholic population in that part of the state. In the mid term election, we elected a Republican Governor and a very conservative Republican Senator. The Governor also survived a recall attempt after Unions got mad at him on the collective bargaining issue. But in the last election, Obama carried the state, and then WI elected a very Liberal Democratic Senator.

At the state level, the republicans have Majorities in the Legislature and the Governor's Mansion. We also have one of the most conservative members of the US Senate, and one of the most Liberal. The house delegation is evenly divided, and includes Paul Ryan, a very outstanding congressman in my opinion.


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
I think the moderate population is often overlooked.

This is exactly the case.

I live in East Tennessee and consider myself a moderate but I tend to vote Libertarian as I generally support that viewpoint. I hate the social/religious opinions of the right and the economic and tax policies of the left so I go with the next best thing- the Libertarian Party. Some consider it a "wasted vote" but It's what I feel is the best way I can show my disdain of the political situation and still participate in Democracy.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

Oklahoma is an interesting case. Two presidential elections back to back that all 77 counties voted for the GOP candidate. Our congressional delegation is now all GOP after Dan Boren's retirement gave up the last democratic seat - Eastern Oklahoma. The state makes it extremely difficult for any third party to get established, so we don't have much flexibility. One thing that is nice is that most city political offices are nonpartisan and you cannot declare a political affiliation.

So being a red state you would think pure conservative, but it isn't anywhere close to it. Your main moderate areas are going to be OKC, Tulsa, and Norman. Norman is probably the furthest "left" you'll go in the state thanks to the diversity from OU and the overall community. Typically the way you get elected here is based on your faith and patriotism. So politicians play off of that. The current governor ran with the campaign slogan of "I believe in Faith, Family, and Freedom" and was vocal in supporting traditional marriage and other conservative social issues. This is in contrast to her coming out publicly of having an affair with her security detail and also getting divorced.

Most conservatives here say they are for small government, but six of the top 10 employers in the state are government/public entities. The state is home to 3 air force bases, one army base, the national ammunitions depot, and several other military installations. You also have a significant federal government base here when it comes to the FAA center (7500 employees), NOAA (in Norman), and major offices in downtown OKC.

source: http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Largest+Area+Employers

Then you add on top of that where Oklahoma City has used public sales tax dollars to implement dozens of quality of life projects (arena, museums, and soon new convention center, central park area, and light rail). The state also supports significant subsidies to the oil and gas industry. So from that perspective you would see a fairly liberal base. However, voters tend to fall back to their social conservative roots and let social issues trump economic and other issues.

We'll take your tax dollars for government jobs, new highways to facilitate some of the worst urban sprawl in the world, and the (3rd) most aid in disaster recovery year after year...but we'll fight gay marriage, Obamacare, or any restrictions from injecting a single viewpoint of faith into everything possible.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

I have family in Montana and I have toured the state. I would say they are pretty sane there. The Democrats elected to federal office are more conservative than people think. However, part (please read that word) of the issue is that in "conservative" areas, they only have conservative media "informing" them. They *could* get information from other sources, but they are lazy, IMO. There are those in conservative areas who actually do homework. They are a minority, unfortunately.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
However, part (please read that word) of the issue is that in "conservative" areas, they only have conservative media "informing" them. They *could* get information from other sources, but they are lazy, IMO. There are those in conservative areas who actually do homework.

So what you are saying is that the only way someone could be a conservative is to be misinformed? And anyone with "good" information won't be a conservative?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinerandyh3253 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
rural rednecks vote Republican

Thats a little out of touch right there. Just because one chooses to live in a rural area doesn't make them some uneducated country "redneck,'' who doesn't know issues that are important to them. Yes, I'm from SC and live in a rural area...my town has just over 500 people (we don't even had a red light in Six Mile,SC). Everybody knows everybody and I wouldn't have it any other way. Its a great way to live and when it comes to voting we know whats important to us.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

Quoting randyh3253 (Reply 10):
Just because one chooses to live in a rural area doesn't make them some uneducated country "redneck,'' who doesn't know issues that are important to them.

I was being mostly specific to Missouri where, to me certainly, most of the places that aren't St. Louis or Kansas City leave something to be desired.

The small town where I grew up, and surrounding ones, were bedroom communities for places with plenty of well paying jobs. And a lot of farmers aren't exactly hurting for money, even if the tax code is not nice to them.

Quoting randyh3253 (Reply 10):
Everybody knows everybody and I wouldn't have it any other way. Its a great way to live and when it comes to voting we know whats important to us

I tell people that everything Hollywood shows about small towns is true. The difference is that in reality it's all true at the same time.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
So what you are saying is that the only way someone could be a conservative is to be misinformed? And anyone with "good" information won't be a conservative?

No. What I am saying is, because rural areas have few choices in information, people get lazy. Those information sources tend to identify as conservative. People who inform themselves still vote conservative. Just like people who inform themselves still vote liberal. However, people I have seen in rural Oregon and rural Washington are lazy when it comes to gathering information.

That is much different than those who vote conservative in Orange County and San Diego County in California. They have more resources and continue to vote conservative. They believe it is in their best interest rather then being told it is in their best interest, like in rural Oregon and Washington.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
What I am saying is, because rural areas have few choices in information, people get lazy. Those information sources tend to identify as conservative.

Having spent plenty of time in rural areas, I can tell you that isn't true. Getting information to people in rural areas is the very reason cable television was developed, and most people have access to MSNBC as well as Fox. NPR is available in a lot of rural areas too.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
So what you are saying is that the only way someone could be a conservative is to be misinformed? And anyone with "good" information won't be a conservative?

I don't think that's the case, but then again if you only get information from one news source, how can you be more open minded? Though cities tend to be more liberal, there are far more outlets of information available to them than in rural areas. I'm OK with Joe Average being a conservative; I'm not OK with him being a conservative because he 's not open to getting other sources of information.

A perfect example is North Korea, whose citizens only know what is seen on the TV and the information taught for generations. If they aren't told, how can I expect them to be informed?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Getting information to people in rural areas is the very reason cable television was developed, and most people have access to MSNBC as well as Fox.

From what I've seen, in some states, some outlets have a larger presence than others. That might certainly influence public opinion where voting is concerned.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
Though cities tend to be more liberal, there are far more outlets of information available to them than in rural areas.

Twenty years ago you might have had a point, but as far as I know the cable packages for rural areas have the same channels as those for the cities. There's no great conspiracy to keep flyover states from seeing liberal media. If people don't want to see it, that's something different, and something completely within people's rights.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
From what I've seen, in some states, some outlets have a larger presence than others. That might certainly influence public opinion where voting is concerned.

Considering how relatively recently such things have sprouted up, you're probably switching cause and effect. Some areas have more liberal media presence because there are more liberals there, they don't have more liberals because of a greater liberal media presence.

I think media gets, or gives themselves, way too much credit politically. With the partial politicization of media, we haven't seen red vs. blue lines getting redrawn. People find what they like. Most of the people who listen to Rush Limbaugh or watch MSNBC already either agree or disagree with most of what they say and that's why they tune in. Media just isn't a politically formative influence.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 764 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Its largely a rural versus urban issue.
To a slightly lesser extent its an issue of income.

States that have a high percentage of rural population on this list are generally Republican strongholds:

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0029.xls


....While the states that dominate the bottom of this list are likewise reliably Republican

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income


In every spot in the world that grows more urbanized, politics moves to the left. Europe will always be to the left of America because the population density demands that communal (versus individual) priorities have primacy. Likewise, NY will always be Democratic and Oklahoma will always be Republican, at least as long as the current US party idelogies stay the same. Individualism and every-man-for-himself works when there is no one else around, but it holds less and less appeal the more crowded it gets.



Pu


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
as far as I know

But you can't say for sure.

I am in Ogden, Utah right now. Consevative from the get go. We drove here. Every motel we stayed at, the cable has CNBC, CNN and (what else?) FOX. Oh, except Reno. They had MSNBC. The radio? Any political talk is conservative. It has been that way since Sacramento.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
With the partial politicization of media

"Partial"? Wow. You are being awfully generous. Since media was de-regulated, it has become very homogenous. Right-wing talk radio, sports, oldies, classic rock, Christian God, and country with the occasional current hits station thrown in. Radio in Reno sounds like radio in Salt Lake City sounds like radio in Boise sounds like radio in Sacramento. When a few big national corporations own nearly all the stations, I would say that is political in a broad sense.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15828 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
But you can't say for sure.

I have better things to do that check cable packages around the country.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
I am in Ogden, Utah right now. Consevative from the get go.

You're switching cause and effect. They have conservative media because that's what the people want to see, the people are not conservative because they see Fox News. All the media has to support itself, so media without viewership will not exist.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
Right-wing talk radio, sports, oldies, classic rock, Christian God, and country with the occasional current hits station thrown in.

You forgot NPR.

The reason there is a lack, real or perceived, of left wing media is not because of some vast conspiracy or backroom dealing to keep those voices from having a forum. It's because the audience isn't big enough. If, when choosing from among guys who look like lesbians, the people of Ogden, Reno, or wherever else would rather listen to Justin Bieber than Chris Hayes that's their choice and media owners will accommodate.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
"Partial"? Wow. You are being awfully generous. Since media was de-regulated, it has become very homogenous. Right-wing talk radio, sports, oldies, classic rock, Christian God, and country with the occasional current hits station thrown in.

Oh brother, why did you leave out most newspapers and basically all news agencies minus FOX? We have plenty of left wing and right wing representation in the media, it's highly polarized, yes, but both sides are well represented



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinesuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40065 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):

Not all Democrats are liberals and not all Republicans are conservative. Simple as that.



Bring back the Concorde
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