Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Too Late To Stop Obama Care?  
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8375 times:

Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private? This plan will destroy this country economically and somewhat socially. We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it). There must be some way to stop it.

307 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

Unfortunately we blew our best chance last fall with the election.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4749 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8361 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it).

                           HAHAHAHAHA   

Wait, you are serious?


I think there are parts of it I would like to change, but there is no way I want to go back to what we had before. What we had before was the folks paying the premiums were getting higher and higher bills due to the lack of folks that could afford private healthcare.


The current GOP plan of complete repeal is not thought out and not valid. in 4 years they have voted 40 + times for repeal. Not once have they put something in place as an alternative, and we definitely need an alternative.

Uninsurables, pre existing conditions, and paying for a service we all use or will use by death , is needed. No one should have to shoulder the outrageous hospital bills that are charged just due to misfortune at the wrong time in life.

The bill is not perfect, but in 4 years, the GOP has nothing better but to threaten the shutdown of Government?
Sorry but it the epitome of stupidity.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20204 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private?

Healthcare will remain private. You should actually read facts and not what you are fed by the GOP.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
This plan will destroy this country economically and somewhat socially.

No it won't. It's already in effect and no destruction has occurred that cannot be readily attributed to other things.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program (not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it)

The Supreme Court disagrees with you, and on Constitutional questions they are the authority, not you.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
There must be some way to stop it.

Yes, elect a completely GOP Congress and President. Of course, by that time the law will be in effect and Americans will have benefited from lower insurance rates, the end of pre-existing conditions restrictions, and expanded coverage. Insurers and healthcare providers (like me) have already expended a lot of time and resources into complying with and preparing for Obamacare, so its repeal would be at least as costly.

Those of us who actually know what's in the law and work in the industry are mostly happy with it. The only physicians I know of who hate it outright are GOP blowhards who think Obama is a Muslim Atheist Communist Fascist. Most of us have found our day-to-day practices blissfully unaffected.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
What we had before was the folks paying the premiums were getting higher and higher bills due to the lack of folks that could afford private healthcare.

You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet. Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

Once Obama care is implemented you will have government deciding your fate and health care.


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2820 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8318 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Healthcare will remain private. You should actually read facts and not what you are fed by the GOP.

To be fair Doc I don't think anybody actually knows what to expect with this law besides health care providers such as yourself. It would be nice to see some PSAs or information on what to expect, because up to this point I just know it was a couple thousand pages long, the republicans hate it, and Nancy Pelosi didn't read it.


The healthcare law is set in stone and not going away. Whether that is a good or bad thing I don't know. I would have liked to know exactly what to expect prior to it's passing, but we didn't know what the Patriot Act entailed either. I guess we just have to wait and see what we will get.
Pat



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20204 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8309 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet. Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

Initial quotes on state insurance exchanges have been low. They are only going "up" if you use very selective comparisons that basically amoutn to lying. Healthcare quality in the USA is already crappy. I'm hoping that some of the measures improve it.

And I'd like our Canadian members to chime in on your last statement. I think you'll find it's not true.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 5):
To be fair Doc I don't think anybody actually knows what to expect with this law besides health care providers such as yourself.

If you actually read legal summaries of the law and do the research, you can find out for yourself.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7657 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8294 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private?

Why would you want to?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
pre existing conditions

This is a massive con.

I read an interesting story in the International Herald Tribune last week about hip replacements. A 60 something year old male needed a hip replacement, it wasn't covered by his insurance provider as a pre existing condition possibly caused by a sporting injury from his 20's, he had some friends in the one of the companies making replacement hips and got a deal to purchase a replacement hip for 13k, when he went to his local hospital to do the job they were going to 68,000 for the surgery, this didn't include physio. He was then advised by friends to check out Europe, in the end he had the surgery done in Belgium for 13k, the 13k also included his airfares. The new hip cost 350 USD, this is the same brand of hip he was going to buy on a special deal for 13k in the US.

From everything I haver read Americans get the short end of the stick when it comes to healthcare, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better system.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8293 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Healthcare will remain private.

Thank God for someone who is both knowledgeable in the subject and rational in its interpretation. Anyone would think from some of the reactions that people had been instructed to report to the nearest collective farm with a sickle at the ready.....



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7657 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8287 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

I'd like to see proof of that.

From living in the NZ, UK and now Norway all countries with socialised medicine whenever I have needed an appointment with my GP I've got it same day.

My father was diagnosed with bowl cancer a few years ago, he had some blood in his stool on Sunday night, went to see his GP on Monday, was referred to a specialist which he saw on Thursday, was operated on the following week, that's socialised medicine in action. I wonder if it would be any quicker in the US?


User currently onlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3297 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8281 times:

So even when the SCOTUS ruled that it is constitutional, people are still complaining...Welcome to 'Merica.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet.
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Once Obama care is implemented you will have government deciding your fate and health care.

Any sources to back that up?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
Unfortunately we blew our best chance last fall with the election.

Even if the GOP had been voted in, you can bet that by now (assuming the law was repealed) the GOP would be facing a dismal approval rating and ever increasing sense that come 2014 dozens of seats will be returned to Democrats.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineskyservice_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1422 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8272 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

The Canadian system is not perfect - there is always room for improvement - most Canadians will tell you that. But the habit of some people south of the 49th to try and discredit and malign the Canadian system as a way to express their unhappiness about Obamacare is not needed. You can express your unhappiness about Obamacare without spreading half truths and false stats about the Canadian system.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8273 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
Any sources to back that up?

It has been stated countless times on Fox news. Bottom line, we do not need social medical care. Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine. In fact if more of medicine were deregulated, and also laws passed to make it harder to sue for medical malpractice, costs will come down. Let the market decide how it will work.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8268 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Let the market decide how it will work.

There's always the choice to go without. One person I know is seriously considering getting only catastrophic insurance due to Obamacare allowing for a 50% penalty for smokers, then paying the fines. He thinks it might work out cheaper than premiums + deductible for full coverage.

[Edited 2013-08-09 13:19:56]


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8263 times:

Quoting skyservice_330 (Reply 11):

Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

Likewise here in the UK. If I want an appointment at the time of my choosing, I might wait a week. If it's urgent, I can turn up and wait in the morning and be guaranteed to be seen. Actually, I don't even have to stay and wait - I can come back at the estimated time and go home for a bit having registered my need.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20204 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8241 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
Thank God for someone who is both knowledgeable in the subject and rational in its interpretation. Anyone would think from some of the reactions that people had been instructed to report to the nearest collective farm with a sickle at the ready.....

There are people claiming that the Obamacare implantable microchips are here. No joke.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news

   Yes, that bastion of balanced and fair truth.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Bottom line, we do not need social medical care

And we will not have it. Nowhere in Obamacare is it socialized. Regulated differently, yes. Not socialized.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
There's always the choice to go without. One person I know is seriously considering getting only catastrophic insurance due to Obamacare allowing for a 50% penalty for smokers, then paying the fines. He thinks it might work out cheaper than premiums + deductible for full coverage.

Until he gets a hangnail and gets shafted with a $3k bill for having it fixed.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Let the market decide how it will work.

It did that. Some hospitals are charging $70 for an alcohol pad that you can buy at the store.

Let's make it clear: healthcare isn't a free market. You choose when you buy a plane ticket; you don't choose when you need a doctor. You often CAN'T choose which hospital you wind up at in an emergency. There is no free market.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8232 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Until he gets a hangnail and gets shafted with a $3k bill for having it fixed.

I asked about that. He said "problem solved, my doctor has a $99 basic office visit fee for the uninsured."



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8225 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news

Well, there you go.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Bottom line, we do not need social medical care.

The thing is, with Obamacare, most people will continue to have the same medical insurance and care that they have now. If your employer offers a plan you are happy with, no one is forcing you to switch to some "social medical care" system. If you have an individual plan, you can continue to use it.

The ACA gives insures benefits, such as coverage of pre-existing conditions, and sets up a program where those without insurance can purchase it.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21796 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
Any sources to back that up?

It has been stated countless times on Fox news.

And of course they have no bias at all and are fully aware of the facts of what they are talking about. I wonder if you heard that during one of Fox's many "non-news" shows.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine.

$78,000 for a hip replacement in the US vs. $13,600 in Belgium (and that includes the cost of the plane ticket to get to and from Belgium): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/he...mple-math.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

No, it's not working just fine. It's not working at all. We pay far more money for not much more (if any) benefit in terms of care compared to other developed countries in the world. That's got to change.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8204 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
There are people claiming that the Obamacare implantable microchips are here. No joke.

I would really like to be able to disbelieve that, truly I would.....



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3005 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8197 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
We have no need for a socialized health care program
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
(not to mention it violates the constitution-forcing someone to buy it).

Woah. Generally, a 'socialized health care program' does not necessarily force someone to buy anything.

Notwithstanding the fact that the Supreme Court upheld that particular feature of the ACA, therefore making it perfectly constitutional.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Healthcare will remain private. You should actually read facts and not what you are fed by the GOP.


  

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
My father was diagnosed with bowl cancer a few years ago, he had some blood in his stool on Sunday night, went to see his GP on Monday, was referred to a specialist which he saw on Thursday, was operated on the following week, that's socialised medicine in action. I wonder if it would be any quicker in the US?

Not in my experience with our current system.

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news. Bottom line, we do not need social medical care. Our private system has been and will continue to work just fine.

That's not an argument--you are merely restating what you said before.

Hell, you're not even describing what Fox has said--and I'm not even going to get into the Fox argument.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently onlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3297 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8186 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
It has been stated countless times on Fox news.

Well that takes care of that. Nothing to see here.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8181 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
No it won't. It's already in effect and no destruction has occurred that cannot be readily attributed to other things.

It will hurt small/medium businesses. I personally know business owners who are ready to sell their business because of the cost Obama Care will bring them.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
The new hip cost 350 USD, this is the same brand of hip he was going to buy on a special deal for 13k in the US.

From everything I haver read Americans get the short end of the stick when it comes to healthcare, I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want a better system.

This is true and this is the biggest problem I have with the American Healthcare system. We pay for everyone's freaking medicine, research etc.. Drug companies, healthcare companies need to make money but Americans should not be the ones footing such a large portion of the bill. Why there have been no DOJ investigations on this I don't know. Oh wait of course how could congress hurt the pockets of their biggest donors. Its disgusting what Washington lets healthcare companies, pharmaceutical companies etc.. do to Americans.

The thing is from what I know about Obamacare, this wont change.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7971 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8158 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
The bill is not perfect, but in 4 years, the GOP has nothing better but to threaten the shutdown of Government?

For real. Most Democrats I've talked to have minor problems with it, some have major problems with it. But what has the GOP proposed??? They've completely lost all the respect I had for them in the last few years, this whole repeal the ACA and replace it with "IDK we'll figure it out later" or vaguely, 'the free market,' tells me absolutely nothing. I'd rather ride forward with a somewhat flawed step forward and tweak it from there than go back to the status quo with no real change in sight.

GOP: lay out a well thought out, detailed plan, THEN vote to REPLACE the ACA with the superior program. They've had enough time to think of something, anything--they either have nothing or haven't really advertised it very well, their fault. And tort reform isn't a comprehensive alternative, and geez, you can have tort reform with or without the ACA

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 4):
You think its expensive now??? Just wait... Private premiums will sky rocket. Heath care quality will plummet. Look to the north, it takes up to 6 months just to get an appointment for a check up in Canada.

I used to believe the propaganda on how much foriegn socialized healthcare sucks until I got on this website and EVERY poster except one Brit I've talked to with some kind of socialized healthcare loves it and wouldn't go back to the old/the US system. Any foreigners have any really bad experiences, the ones you hear from the far right in America?

Now no system is perfect, and our foreign posters will be quick to mention that

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
So even when the SCOTUS ruled that it is constitutional, people are still complaining...Welcome to 'Merica.

Yeah, it's sad. I've seen both sides champion a decision and turn around and say that the court was bought and/or it's a liberal activist haven. Give me a break, at least pretend not to be super biased

Quoting skyservice_330 (Reply 11):
Source? I live here, I use the publicly funded system - I have never waited 6 months for anything.

There you go. I wonder what the OP has to say against, you know, a real Canadian. I don't care what he's heard on the news

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 12):
In fact if more of medicine were deregulated, and also laws passed to make it harder to sue for medical malpractice, costs will come down. Let the market decide how it will work.

Why hasn't our lovely GOP come out with a plan yet? All I've heard are vague things like tort reform which, again, doesn't need the ACA repealed to get through Congress

So to sum up:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
Obama care is set to implement next year. Is there any way to stop it and keep health care private?

No, there isn't. I'd say there is a way, the GOP coming up with a better alternative, but I'd bet $1000 they won't. They've had years and years and all they've done is fed us crap. It wouldn't take much to sway me personally but they have less than nothing and all it's doing is pissing off the population. Wonder if they'll ever learn. What they've done for years is obviously not working



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7657 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8142 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):

Until he gets a hangnail and gets shafted with a $3k bill for having it fixed.

I had one of these, it cost 170 NOK (about 30 USD) to fix.

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):
We pay for everyone's freaking medicine, research etc.. Drug companies, healthcare companies need to make money but Americans should not be the ones footing such a large portion of the bill.

Who do you mean by everyone? I hope you don't mean everyone else in the world? Not all the worlds major drug companies are based in the US, there are boat load of them in Europe. A lot of the problem is how you purchase drugs, in many countries with socialised medicine products are bought in bulk on a national level rather than hospital level in the US, so the European/Canadian/Australian/NZ health authorities buying power is far greater than any individual hospital could wield in the US.


25 jpetekyxmd80 : This thread could be an introductory level college course on how to look uneducated on the internet.
26 Braniff747SP : I'm betting that this was not in the United States. 30 USD is what I pay when I go to see the doctor for my yearly check-up as a co-pay.
27 KiwiRob : Yup that's the one I was referring to, the rest of the article is pretty interesting as well. No in Norway.[Edited 2013-08-09 14:58:22]
28 RomeoBravo : A free market is a market which lacks government intervention. Nothing to do with when people choose to use a service. The US healthcare system does
29 wingman : You guys forget an essential part of our history. The GOP did, in fact, come up with an alternative to Obamacare and it was implemented in the State o
30 CaliAtenza : Fox News??? really??? That's who you are quoting?
31 bristolflyer : Nationalized healthcare would be great for the US. Have you seen how many crippled people there are in the US because they can't afford healthcare? An
32 Post contains images bristolflyer : FOX News is awesome - that's why they have all those videos on Youtube. Just do a search for 'Bill O'Reilly gets owned by...' and 'Hannity caught in
33 Braniff747SP : As expected. The price you mentioned won't get you five seconds with a doctor in the States.
34 StarAC17 : In the states (mostly blue) that want it to work premiums are falling as the exchanges are being implemented and people can choose in the competitive
35 WarRI1 : As I have said before on here, twice as a visitor to Canada, someone in my group had to use that service, very well delivered, well satisfied and ver
36 DocLightning : Does his hospital have that fee when he gets hit by a car? I know a few, too. They ALL claim that Obamacare is a socialized program that their employ
37 Post contains images Ken777 : We already have a huge level of government supported health care. Medicare and Medicaid is the most obvious, but there are Military Health programs,
38 einsteinboricua : Obamacare: they were for it before they were against it. He's not a troll. He's just repeating what Fox News says. A troll actually knows what he's t
39 photopilot : WOW, what a falsehood. I can get a GP appointment the next day without any problems, except when my GP has his day's off of course. He's open Monday
40 AeroWesty : Honestly don't know what kind of catastrophic policy he's looking at, I wasn't all that interested in it. I would presume in the case of a car accide
41 ltbewr : I don't know yet if 'Obamacare'/ACA will mean - hopefully - much lower premiums on my individual health insurance. I sure can't afford to spend any mo
42 Ken777 : And a lot of times their "limits" are grossly inadequate. End up a Pare or Quad and you better hope the driver of the other car has really, really de
43 AeroWesty : Like I said, he's looking at catastrophic coverage, and don't know all of the details of the policy.
44 jetblueguy22 : Boy I wish I lived in one of those blue states. I'm from a deep blue state (Connecticut) and premiums have continued to make huge jumps. Not saying i
45 zckls04 : Yeeees, well to be fair I know personally many people who were planning to leave the country if Obama got reelected and mysteriously they all seem to
46 StarAC17 : They can't because it is a GOP idea!! It is really funny that the party of personal responsibility wants none of it when a democrat embraces the best
47 seb146 : And will still cover you. As opposed to right now which is death panels. All those people who get cancer and their premium and co-pay skyrocket? Or t
48 DocLightning : Depends. I was ready to start seeking employment abroad had there been a GOP victory with the last one. With my basic civil rights in the balance, it
49 AeroWesty : Civil unrest over what, by whom, and where? Earlier today you were fearing that Putin was turning Russia into a fascist dictatorship heading straight
50 GDB : Oh wow! Said without a trace of irony too I bet! If that's your source of 'info', you are better off with the Cartoon Network. And best you don't pre
51 bristolflyer : The US has got some of the best doctors and healthcare in the world. Just a shame that so many can't afford it.
52 DocLightning : He is turning it into a dictatorship. In fact, it pretty much is already. Mr. Putin cannot be ousted by an election. And given that his law enforceme
53 casinterest : This is the big lie of the GOP. They were already skyrocketing. That was part of the reason that Obama won in 2008. Folks were sick of skyrocketing h
54 AeroWesty : Read what you are preaching about Putin in the other thread. He is dangerous and in control of nuclear weapons: There is no issue before us which wou
55 Post contains images KiwiRob : If he gets hit by a car wouldn't it be the insurance provider of the car owner who pays, better yet make sure you're hit by a car in Europe, NZ or Au
56 GDB : I know it's off topic, but as a historical aside, at the start of WW2, all of the UK population were issued with gas masks. Even children, my parents
57 DocLightning : Assuming that the driver of said car is insured. It's required to purchase that sort of insurance for all car owners, but that doesn't mean that ever
58 RomeoBravo : It's shockingly bad. That's one of the reasons healthcare costs so much. People overspend on healthcare because it's tax free, it also ties insurance
59 Post contains links Dreadnought : It's not the GOP - It's Obama, Pelosi and Ried, who said in the past that the eventual goal is single-payer (i.e. government paid-for and controlled-
60 seb146 : Because the main stream, right-wing controlled media tells people it is. FOX, AM radio, NewsMax, etc. tell their listeners/readers that a huge majori
61 sbworcs : I don't get why people don't seem to want a better system. I am in the UK. ..If I wake up unwell and need to see a Dr I call the surgery and get an ap
62 RussianJet : Quite simply, because many people don't view it as a better system, for a variety of reasons.
63 bristolflyer : If you have good health insurance in the US - and plenty of money - then the healthcare is very good. Great doctors/nurses/surgeons, great medical fa
64 photopilot : In point of fact, Thirty-two of the thirty-three developed nations have universal health care, with the United States being the lone exception. It's
65 GDB : Last week, the BBC showed a program in which one of it's reporters and his wife, plus their two young children, spent some time living as an average
66 Dreadnought : Tell me one country of such diversity and population that has managed to do it. The old Soviet Union? China? Great models! There you go making crap u
67 windy95 : And say that Capitalism failed and does not work. When it has been leeched to death by socialism all along. Obamacare was meant to stop itself.
68 GDB : Yeah, the great banking meltdown was caused by 'reds under the bad' was it? Jeez.......
69 Dreadnought : Sub-Prime mortgages would not have existed without the direct requirements of federal programs.
70 Post contains images StarAC17 : Perhaps those who pay cash may spend too much because its tax free but many don't have that luxury. Those who are insured and often restricted to whe
71 iMissPiedmont : I find it interesting that nobody calls it the "Affordable Care Act" these days. Perhaps that is because Obama caved to the insurance companies and ga
72 AeroWesty : I see it abbreviated as "ACA" in news reports quite often, while opinion and commentary pieces are more likely to call it Obamacare.
73 DeltaMD90 : Doesn't the President himself call it Obamacare? He wants that to be a positive term and owned it, IIRC. Could be wrong
74 Post contains links AeroWesty : Good question. I googled how Obama refers to Obamacare and got this piece from CBS News with a clip from last week's press conference. Shutdown over
75 GDB : I think it was first used as a disparagement by his opponents. Maybe another response to this could have been not to co-opt the term but saying, 'Oba
76 Dreadnought : I would not object to this, particularly if the federal mandate is broad and simply requires the states to come up with a way to ensure universal cov
77 AeroWesty : Oh I don't know. In left-leaning progressive Oregon, we've had the Oregon Health Plan for years to handle how our Medicaid dollars are spent, which h
78 Dreadnought : You are talking about the distribution of federal money within the state. That has nothing to do with figuring out how to get everyone in the state c
79 AeroWesty : When I scrolled back to reply #59, what I saw was you talking about a single-payer nationalized system, which on a state level, that's what the Orego
80 WarRI1 : I watched a woman from the House on Fox News today at noon. She had that Michelle Bachman gleam in her eye as she stated that the Republicans would ac
81 Dreadnought : How was the news twisted? A House member giving her opinion is just that - an opinion - just like when Fox shows Harry Ried talking about how the US
82 Dreadnought : With funding from Washington. That's different. They are spending other people's money. Let's make it clear. If Oregon or any other state wants to do
83 Post contains images WarRI1 : I will now speak like a politician, I meant to say, I did not mean that, I must not have made myself clear. I will now speak like a non-politician. I
84 Post contains images AeroWesty : And Oregon. I've been to the OHP budget meetings, so I'm familiar with how it works and why it was setup the way it was. I'd google some links for yo
85 aa757first : I used to hate the ACA. Then I got a job in a large hospital system and realized it is a GRAVY TRAIN. The bill covers everyone, but has essentially no
86 Braniff747SP : Why is such a thing important? Do you propose we be like the French and mandate 35 hour workdays and a month off?
87 RussianJet : It's important in furtherance of basic standards of welfare and protection from exploitation for the general population, and has benefits in health,
88 garnetpalmetto : Demonstrably false - as Ken777 stated later: The only people helped by limits on medical malpractice are malpractice insurers who know they'll have t
89 MD11Engineer : Similarly the more intelligent employers in Germany realise that their staff can make or break their business. Therefore they treat their staff as an
90 Braniff747SP : What I don't understand is why there should be a government mandate on such a thing. If people want to work, let them work...
91 Post contains links zckls04 : I reiterate everything I said in this thread: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...non_aviation/print.main?id=2457571 I went on vacation towards th
92 RomeoBravo : How does restricting your freedom to choose how much work and how much play you want to embark on benefit anyone? I have no holiday leave as in my co
93 tugger : The Republican's felt that the mandate was the best option as it made certain were personally responsible for "paying their way" with healthcare. The
94 WarRI1 : Of course, except what about employers who want you to work 80 hours per week. We know here are plenty out there who would require that, if they coul
95 RussianJet : If people want to work the extra then I have zero problem with that, but I am staunchly in favour of a minimum standard amount for employers to offer
96 RomeoBravo : How is that fair on the people that create jobs though? Why should they have to offer 20 days holiday if they can only justify giving 10? The market
97 Post contains images RussianJet : Why is the right of a company to offer no holiday more important than the right to ensure that all workers are assured of at least a small amount of
98 Post contains links casinterest : http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...cked-with--55k-bill-150152873.html And this is why we need Obamacare. Where lapsed insurance nails you with a 5
99 RomeoBravo : Ask yourself why employees have a right to enforce holiday terms on their employers? If you don't want a job with no holiday, don't agree to a job wi
100 tugger : Sorry I did not realize this was about working: ...and not the "healthcare mandate" Actually the business is operating in the society and in the mode
101 tugger : But is that smart and healthy for the society over all? What societies or nations produce more wealth, ones with looser controls or ones with strong
102 windy95 : As she should have. After all a majority of people want it repealed You mean like the dems did when they passed this poison pill? You have high hopes
103 RomeoBravo : Looser controls obviously. Don't confuse loose controls with no rule of law - that's a very different thing. If something is smart and healthy people
104 Post contains images par13del : Did the ruling actually say that if it is looked at as a federal tax it is ok? I always thought they wimped out in making a ruling either for or agai
105 tugger : Actually, oddly enough while discussing this your final comment actually dragged it right back on topic: People don't always do smart and healthy thi
106 RomeoBravo : I would argue that's exactly why there shouldn't be mandates or taxes. Why should i have to pay for people's stupid or unhealthy lifestyles... or vic
107 Braniff747SP : Who is talking about being forced? Nowhere in any labor law does it allow for employers' forcing employees to work.
108 tugger : But you can't do that. Or at the very least you should not do that. TO do so would be a detriment to the productivity and societal health of the nati
109 RomeoBravo : How do you figure? People doing less stupid things, and less unhealthy things would be beneficial to the productivity of the nation. People being tax
110 rwy04lga : Dropping those 2 bombs obviated the need to invade Japan. Not invading Japan saved the lives of an estimated 1,000,000 American soldiers and the live
111 tugger : But health care costs are already, automatically "socialized". And I do not understand your "how do you figure?" as I already noted how I figured tha
112 KiwiRob : Golly did you really say that? How about sick leave? Shoot how about actually getting paid? Who would be stupid enough to take a job with no holiday?
113 RomeoBravo : No they're not, only via the coercion of government are they socialised in many countries. Which, as i say, is why you shouldn't subsidise unhealthy
114 tugger : And you are apparently still missing my point.... the cost is socialized automatically because of the broad impact that already automatically occurs
115 RomeoBravo : The overwhelming beneficiary of healthcare is the person being treated. Plenty of people can do my job, it would be no great loss to society if i did
116 tugger : I don't beleive I ever actually said such a think and if you found it implied then that was an error. The simple fact is that many (young people most
117 tugger : By the way, you are looking at this way to small. Yes, you personally are a big beneficiary with good healthcare, but if you look beyond your nose an
118 RomeoBravo : Why is insurance uncompetitive for young people anyway? Probably because of age ratings. Insurers can't insure young people for 5? times less than th
119 WarRI1 : We shall see how it shakes out. Exactly, the Dems had no choice as we can all plainly see. Lets face it, all the hysteria from the Republicans is bas
120 RomeoBravo : Again, you might have a point if it were the case that humans had no interest in self preservation and would simply die off if the government didn't
121 rwy04lga : Nope, they needed their noses bloodied. The destructiveness had to be demonstrated. The Japanese military insisted on continuing the war, almost to t
122 WarRI1 : Well said. Remember it took 2 bombs to get a surrender from the hardcore fanatics in charge.
123 par13del : Hmm, maybe Hitler should have bombed the Channel Island rather than the mainland and Churchill could have responded by bombing empty fields in German
124 Post contains images einsteinboricua : Well...loop holes and plenty of tax cuts help people retire with dignity...oh...you meant people with no money...yeah. Can't think of any IIRC, the m
125 Ken777 : When I had my little company in a really red state my premiums doubled during W's first term. Urgent care facilities are an excellent alternative - I
126 Post contains images WarRI1 : There you have it, the people with out money. I do not see any list for the Republican programs provided. I guess there are none to list You are corr
127 WarRI1 : Nor can I. I also notice that anything that might actually help the majority of American's, bring more equity to our lives, and just spread the wealt
128 Ken777 : Or a 1,500 sq ft house - which was about the size of out first home. Fortunately I live in a city where there is a lot of wealth, and a large number
129 Post contains images WarRI1 : Oh! it sure does. One cannot fault those who want to return or share the blessings with others and their community. They are to be admired. some othe
130 seb146 : How so? When Rush, FOX, NewsMax says "It will cost too much" is not telling people they don't want it? It is already shown health care costs will be
131 RomeoBravo : What would motivate people to do a demanding jobs if they weren't allowed to use their earnings to by 3 cars or a large house? They just had to have
132 wingman : The GOP has cried wolf so many times with legiasation and elections that my honest opinion is that they are petrified at being found out yet again for
133 DeltaMD90 : Not subscribing to any ideology on this thread, but I object to this statement. Even in societies that are more equalized, there still exists opportu
134 Ken777 : Amazingly enough a lot of people perform well in demanding jobs without great wealth heading their way. And a lot of times they are some of the best
135 WarRI1 : Gee, let me ponder that wisdom. The horror of living in such a small space, 10K versus15k Oh the humanity!
136 Post contains links and images akiss20 : If money were the only motivator in this country, we would basically have no engineers. I could take my BS in engineering, say screw it to my PhD pro
137 Post contains images WarRI1 : I commend you, money is not the end all after all? Job satisfaction does mean something after all? I guess you may not believe that Greed is good, no
138 Mir : The satisfaction of doing a challenging job and doing it very well. The satisfaction of making a difference in people's lives. How do I know that? Be
139 DeltaMD90 : I second (or third or however high we''re at) that. I have the means and opportunity to make a ton but all I want to be is an airline pilot (which so
140 Post contains links and images Longhornmaniac : This belongs here: Cheers, Cameron
141 Post contains images akiss20 : Amazingly yes haha. Another thing that seems to be ignored a lot in the United States is that sometimes you don't really need more. My father served
142 BMI727 : It's unfair because it's their money, not yours. You don't get a piece, you don't get a say. Spend your money however you wish, but leave others alon
143 DeltaMD90 : I already said I'm not arguing for any ideology, I'm just calling BS that people still wouldn't work hard if the end goal was 'pretty rich' vs 'filth
144 BMI727 : Nobody should ever settle for less of whatever they want. That sort of thing is why 47% of the people don't pay income tax but feel it's fine to reac
145 akiss20 : Nice try. The argument I am trying to argue against is that monetary greed is the only motivator. If you want to call the love of a job well done gre
146 seb146 : According to you, there were no rich people in the United States prior to 1981. All these rich people and the huge gap that came with it, happened af
147 type-rated : The other day I saw an article that the Obamacare deductible for 100% coverage is $6,200. Most insurance companies today have their 100% deductible at
148 Post contains links BMI727 : I never said monetary greed is the only motivator. But it is the only sort of payoff or satisfaction we have to quantify for the government so they c
149 akiss20 : So in your mind there is absolutely, 100% no such thing as a self-less or a non-greed motivated act? This reminds me of a Friends episode...
150 KiwiRob : The problem with a large house is that someone has to clean it! Take your engineering degree and get a job in the oil & gas industry, you'll be e
151 DeltaMD90 : I've never contested this Come on, you know me and what I post on this site well enough (I think) and although I'm left of you, I'm not talking about
152 Post contains links BMI727 : Pretty much. Everything is selfish at some level. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_equation But how much wealthier would they be if they didn't hav
153 DeltaMD90 : It's insurance. It is there for you if you ever need it. And don't think it can't happen to you. There are plenty of people who thought they were set
154 KiwiRob : But they don't have to pay for medical, they don't have to pay for university education, I'll make an assumption here I bet Swedes get big tax deduct
155 seb146 : Looking back at history in this country, there were VERY wealthy people and VERY poor people. It wasn't until deregulation and the greed orgy of the
156 Ken777 : Actually we do get a piece (via property taxes) and we do get a say (via zoning laws). I have no problem with people paying 10 or 20 times my propert
157 RomeoBravo : If you are going to object to a statement it is important to accurately portray that statement. I didn't say anything about more equalised, i said eq
158 BMI727 : The right answer is if you want it, get it and if you don't, then don't. Capitalism never loses, it just can't be kept down. That's why you see black
159 DeltaMD90 : And you are entitled to that opinion And how do you explain (forgot the exact time frame) late 1800s/early 1900s? There were monopolies, there were c
160 Mir : This is true when one considers the whole system (i.e. the economies of both the outsourcer and the outsourcee), but it isn't true when one considers
161 RomeoBravo : No it's beneficial for both parties. As stated but apparently not absorbed, new jobs will be created to replace the jobs that were outsourced, human
162 DeltaMD90 : Says who? Sounds like another ideology that works on paper but might not work fully in the real world. While I think outsourcing not only is necessar
163 WarRI1 : To have such ideals and a sense of decency, is refreshing to see on here. Many young and old do not and will not ever possess such. It is sad, but su
164 RomeoBravo : On the contrary, trying to claim there is more to it overly complicates things. What you are seeing "not working" is nothing to do with outsourcing/f
165 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I wish it was as simple as saying "let capitalism take over" or other such phrases. The reason why things are under so much debate is because there a
166 BMI727 : Other people can have different opinions. But, if you're going to try and make your opinion reality and do it with my money, we are gonna have a prob
167 DeltaMD90 : It already happens. It's called taxes. And not to sound like a bleeding heart liberal, but they do kinda have a point in the fact that you do benefit
168 BMI727 : I'm willing to pay for useful services that keep people from violating my rights. Having police is a good thing. But once you start getting into soci
169 KiwiRob : Tell that to the good people of Detroit. All the nice jobs with good benefits went and nothing came back. Social programs keep people off the streets
170 BMI727 : Ah yes, the city that wholeheartedly embraced the Great Society. That's not gone well. What you have in Detroit is a cautionary tale about not evolvi
171 petertenthije : actually there is a return there, but it can not really be measured in money. Social programs deliver peace of mind, knowing that if you get sick or
172 RomeoBravo : During that period the standard of living grew as fast as it's ever grown. You are only judging crap wages and poverty by today's standards. I'm for
173 Mir : Which is a reasonable approach when you're young. If you're reaching the end of your career, however, and your job goes away, your options are very l
174 KiwiRob : A lot of Detroits problems started when the motor industry started moving production to low cost locations in the late 70's & early 80's, byt the
175 RomeoBravo : Loss of the rule of law is a government failure. Clearly Detroit's government has been failing badly. I don't know the ins and outs of their history
176 seb146 : Same could be said for the banks. Not when private enterprise is involved. Don't put this 100% on the government. They did have their hand in letting
177 Dreadnought : You mean, before the Great Society programs of LBJ arrived and screwed things up?
178 DeltaMD90 : Again, you benefit from a stable society. I think you are more or less for the same thing, we are just disagreeing on the details Sooo... are you gla
179 Ken777 : Only a fool wouldn't When you move into a higher tax bracket it is because you are earning more. Your net of taxes still increases, especially when y
180 BMI727 : I wish that were more true. America has never had more millionaires than in 2010. It doesn't hurt me. I don't care if the things I buy come from Bois
181 DeltaMD90 : Yeah but where would you be had we not legislated against unbridled capitalism? Where would your parents or grandparents been? It's kind of a silly h
182 Ken777 : I assume you're talking about those days when blacks had little chance of voting. The days of "White" and Colored" signs on everything from water fou
183 WarRI1 : So well said, so awfully true, so awfully tragic. Look at the wonderful results of the maddening self destructive last 20 years. It has been like nat
184 Ken777 : Might want to re-think that. China has had a problem of exporting kitchen items (plates, cups, bowls, etc.) that have lead in the paint used. Persona
185 DeltaMD90 : Is the lead in the paint still an on-going thing? Did not know that. And that wasn't me that said what you quoted, that was BMI727
186 BMI727 : Plenty of people live in the same society and pay less for it. It is the height of foolishness to pretend that products and profit are disconnected.
187 DeltaMD90 : And life isn't fair. You still benefited greatly for it. Be happy you were born in the situation you were born into, and although I can't tell you ha
188 BMI727 : "Society" has brought plenty of people to the same place, or even better, and yet I get the privilege of paying more for it because I was actually sm
189 DeltaMD90 : Again, where you are in life is probably 20% you, 30% your parents, and 50% the society that came before you. An inner city minority BMI727 probably
190 BMI727 : I'm not against all forms of help. I'm more than happy to support a strong educational system. America already outspends most, if not all, other coun
191 DeltaMD90 : Well that makes more sense. I think you really play the "lazy welfare recipient" argument too much. There will always be leeches, but most are hard w
192 BMI727 : The thing is that even when liberals play the "works three jobs and still can't get off welfare" card, it's easy to forget that people don't just end
193 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : You've lived a sheltered life if you believe this. I admit, I did too until just recently because I was sheltered as well. If someone like you or me,
194 seb146 : But they do. Just because you don't see it does not mean it does not happen. That is what the United States is. Back in the day, people were on welfa
195 BMI727 : Gut them and replace them with education. And I never said education was just for kids either. Just pointing out how more of the tax burden is shifte
196 DeltaMD90 : I'm a strong supporter of education, and I'm not a fan of welfare, but I think there needs to be something in place. A safety net designed to keep pe
197 Ken777 : I have found that people talking about how smart they are generally fall short when compared to those who are really gifted with a very high level of
198 KiwiRob : Boohoo, get a grip, get over it and start living life, you're acting like a spoiled brat who had his toys taken away from him. In 5 years time you sh
199 BMI727 : So do I, so people need to get their butts into classrooms and taking it seriously. That's part of the beauty of it. Success is an addiction, and not
200 DeltaMD90 : But that's the thing... there are plenty of factors that screw that up for many people. Talk to an inner city minority, I had very similar views unti
201 BMI727 : It's a matter of how much you feel you need to fix. I say give them access to the tool, use it if you want to. It's better to be rich and unhappy tha
202 DeltaMD90 : But that's my point, they don't have access to the tool But it's better to be poor and happy, my point. Money is a great asset, yes, but it ain't eve
203 BMI727 : Put the schools and the resources in place. If people decide they can't or don't want to use them, that's their business and they can deal with the r
204 DeltaMD90 : Sigh, if you think plopping schools down is the only thing needed, again, talk to some [ex or current] inner city minorities. Do you think a whole po
205 BMI727 : It's ridiculous to try and fix those things. Do you really want the government to try and give everyone good friends? And for what it's worth, I had
206 DeltaMD90 : You missed the point completely, I'm not talking about giving anyone friends
207 WarRI1 : When you pay more and more in taxes to support these uneducated, unfortunate people, then you will find that there is indeed a material reason to car
208 BMI727 : The issue is that if you sit around and think about it long enough you could come up with a whole laundry list of excuses why someone might not becom
209 Ken777 : Of course if too many people go to university and take aeronautical engineering your career path takes a downward turn simply because of supply and d
210 BMI727 : I just want to give people the chance, I don't expect them all to succeed or take it seriously. Even the most level of playing fields has winners and
211 WarRI1 : Surely you are joking, are you looking for social strife? Who do you think will help them by the millions? We let this social injustice fester, we le
212 BMI727 : Where do you plan on finding the magical wonder jobs to make everyone fat and happy?
213 WarRI1 : Maybe you would have more to invest if our economy was better run like it was in my younger days. Jobs everywhere, opportunity. Unions were everywher
214 WarRI1 : [ I am still waiting for any politician, Democrat, or Republican to really put out a plan to bring our industry jobs back here. They are moral coward
215 BMI727 : Better run how? By having Chinese people in rice paddies barely able to feed themselves? Japan and Europe blown to pieces with half of Europe falling
216 KiwiRob : By that same metric the US must be significantly worse off today than even a couple of years ago, Corvette production has been dropping for many year
217 BMI727 : One product doesn't make a metric, I was just pulling one data point. But the question still needs to be asked: If the American economy, middle class
218 petertenthije : Through economies of scale, modern production methodes, containerized/standardized logistics and outsourcing a lot of products have become cheap(er).
219 KiwiRob : Stuff is cheap unless you buy real high end, not many can afford true luxury goods. A lot of people also live well beyond there means and have massiv
220 gingersnap : I have private health insurance and I've had three operations in my time (all done under my insurance). But in this case, I wasn't paying for anything
221 BMI727 : Absolutely, so it seems that people are complaining not because their lives aren't better but rather because their lives are better for the wrong rea
222 Post contains images WarRI1 : Let me play the self interest, self centered position. I do not give a shit about anyone, I do not care how they work, and under what conditions. I d
223 seb146 : THANK YOU!! This is what I am so horrible at trying to put out there. The right keeps saying "don't tax the job creators" yet they keep sending jobs
224 BMI727 : They should care about their standard of living. Of course, everything extra I buy would have to be made by someone. I earned that money, so it reall
225 KiwiRob : bmi is trolling so maybe we should stop feeding him.
226 Ken777 : The more level the playing field the less secure your job is because supply increases while demand stays constant. someone replaces you at a far lowe
227 Post contains links BMI727 : I know that not everybody has the ability that I have. I'll bet on myself to come out on top rather than bet on the government to keep me off the bot
228 Post contains images WarRI1 : No question about that. Inflammatory statements left and right. Oops! (scratch that about left) He just makes right statements, Oops scratch that (ri
229 Post contains links casinterest : http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-any-gop-alternative-to-obamacare/ Another good article on why Obamacare is going to go forward, and why the GO
230 L0VE2FLY : I just don't get it, why so many people oppose Obamacare?!! I can understand why some greedy business owners don't like it. Affordable access to healt
231 Post contains images Ken777 : I thought you were into investing and saving - now you are talking about buying extra "stuff". You earned that money because previous taxpayers funde
232 einsteinboricua : That's funny. The trickle-down economics. Cut taxes and eventually that money will return to the economy and the worker. The Bush tax cuts were recen
233 BMI727 : Saving and investing isn't optional. Buying is. The confiscatory tax rate isn't taking money that I would otherwise have saved, it's taking money I'd
234 WarRI1 : I certainly do not, would you explain that policy of Apple, and many others. You do not think that they are waiting for a Republican congress to allo
235 RomeoBravo : Back from holiday (BEG, IST, MNL, SIN if anyone cares) No, we don't have unregulated capitalism. We have regulated corporatism. Unregulated capitalism
236 vhtje : And, mate, you just lost all credibility with that statement.
237 WarRI1 : I find your statement has much value. I see your flag, I know the negative influence on your country form Rupert and his minions. I know what he has
238 vhtje : Thank you. News - indeed, the delivery of it - should never have an agenda. If it does, then that necessarily compromises the impartiality of the new
239 L0VE2FLY : It's interesting that none of the "geniuses" who oppose Obamacare couldn't answer my simple question!...
240 DeltaMD90 : I am not well versed enough in the law to make a judgment, but I thought the answer to your question was simple: minus the political garbage that get
241 casinterest : Once the law is implemented and people know their premiums, we will have better data. I for one am of the camp that knows health care costs were alre
242 RomeoBravo : I would guess that nobody is answering your question, because it contains this false assertion.
243 Ken777 : GO back over the years and look at the tax rates before talking about "confiscatory" rates. You can even look at the two tax cuts that W delivered -
244 BMI727 : Are you going to tell black people to not complain about racism because things used to be way worse? Having a worse situation in the past is no excus
245 Ken777 : Want a good laugh - compare yours to Romney's 13%. Might also talk to those tax attorneys or accounts so you too can get some really slick loopholes.
246 BMI727 : I don't care how much Romney pays, I care how much I pay. And he pays the tax share of a lot more than 1.6 people. Then go invest in other companies.
247 Maverick623 : He doesn't mind paying those taxes, because they helped him (but not everyone). But if a tax-funded program helped someone else (but not him), he doe
248 ltbewr : I suspect what may happen is to prevent the penalty tax via the IRS from going into effect. That seems to be one of the most controversial parts of Ob
249 Post contains links jet-lagged : This is a long thread, so not sure whether this has been shared. But I saw it today and remember this ongoing chat: http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-da
250 L0VE2FLY : It may not be perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. False assertion?! I don't think so, I asked everyone I know who works in healthcare, i
251 RomeoBravo : You claimed affordable healthcare was a right. Which it is not.
252 casinterest : It may not be. However, unaffordable healthcare is a burden on society. Too many people taking advantage of systems they cannot afford is still a bur
253 Ken777 : We're not talking about investing in shares. We are talking about the hit to the Middle Class during that period and some would still not be back to
254 BMI727 : And don't buy the products either. The bottom line is that if you don't like the way a company does business, do not do business with them. But for e
255 RomeoBravo : Are there any more words you'd like to put in my mouth whilst we're here?
256 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : Yeah it's not a right, a poor person should be denied a life-saving procedure simply because he/she can't afford it!
257 RomeoBravo : So you have a right to hold a gun to a doctors head and force him to operate on you? I find that opinion a little barbaric.
258 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : What?! I didn't say doctors should be underpaid or forced to work for free, but I do think that it's the governments' duty to help make healthcare af
259 Ken777 : Correct. It can be a difference in intelligence, family financial situations (or family situations in general), physical abilities, etc. The responsi
260 RomeoBravo : Somebody has to be working for free in order to pay him though. Therefore healthcare cannot be a right, for as long as freedom from slavery is a righ
261 Post contains images BMI727 : So why should I pay the government more for a difference in life that has nothing to do with them. I don't pay McDonalds for gas. I don't give money
262 Ken777 : You rise to the top you get a larger house and your property taxes go up. You also have more disposable income and purchasing related taxes go up. Yo
263 BMI727 : And yet I'm told FairTax is a scam. I know better. I know that's the way it works, and it's a pretty crappy way of doing business. What it amounts to
264 Ken777 : When you have a national Medicare for all, with the ability to buy Private Insurance, you loose the definition of a single payer. And take a look at
265 BMI727 : If you're worried about efficiency, than throw open the gates and let the free market go to work. I see my paycheck, and what I see there shows my in
266 casinterest : You are young and single. Wait till you get married, have kids, and random chance strikes with unforeseeable issues.
267 Ken777 : We're not talking about investing in shares. We are talking about the hit to the Middle Class during that period and some would still not be back to
268 BMI727 : You're talking about business. If you don't like how a company does business, don't do business with them. Problem solved. They didn't make it becaus
269 casinterest : Because everyone's health and actions affect those around them. Premiums for insurance, cost of care and other tiems. It seems only the selfish folks
270 BMI727 : In which case people should be given freedom to choose their risk pool, so the government should leave it to citizens and private companies to sort o
271 L0VE2FLY : Nobody has to work for free, some Western countries have excellent healthcare systems, Obamacare is trying to do something similar here. It's a right
272 Post contains images Revelation : A little reminder on where things stand:
273 Post contains images WarRI1 : 40 and 0, not bad. It seems that fairness may win out finally. Insurance for everybody.
274 type-rated : At what cost?
275 WarRI1 : I say, at what cost to someone who has been ill, still is ill, will get ill and has no coverage. Remember, we all get ill, we all get old, try to thi
276 seb146 : And let the private companies set up their own death panels. "Oh, sure you have cancer and only make $800 a month. We can offer you a sweetheart deal
277 BMI727 : The nice thing about private companies is that I can choose from a variety. If I don't like what's at Target I can just go to Walmart, and neither co
278 WarRI1 : You are talking food and goods, we are talking health and maybe financial ruin for those who cannot afford healthcare. Ironic, the private companies
279 RomeoBravo : So where is the money coming from to pay for these doctors? So you have a right to do absolutely nothing and simply demand a free house, free food an
280 BMI727 : I bet if the government stopped subsidizing it, healthcare would suddenly get a lot cheaper as providers wonder where their customers have gone. Soun
281 casinterest : Sure, because people can pray to God to keep them healthy and they will never need to go to a doctor. This isn't a business with competitors BMI. It
282 BMI727 : The four hospitals, four pharmacies, and probably at least a dozen doctor's offices within six miles of me beg to differ. We all need to eat and have
283 WarRI1 : Not when you have died from poor health care because it is not affordable. You then have a permanent place to sleep. ACA. The Affordable Care Act. No
284 BestWestern : Life expectancy in Hong Kong 83.42 Life expectancy in USA 78 Hong Kong has affordable public health care, backed up by affordable private care. Why ca
285 WarRI1 : Thank goodness there are some out there that really know what a greedy system we have here. We are the victims of a for profit medical industry, who
286 casinterest : Sure, in a large metro, but certainly not out in rural areas. Also their is no pricing transparency. as people want service for what ails them , and
287 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : Wherever it comes from in other developed nations that have successful healthcare systems, the US is not a poor country, as you probably know! . What
288 RomeoBravo : But in these nations it comes from people working for free. Being unable to get a job, does not give you a right to a commodity. I don't believe in t
289 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : People working for free to fund healthcare in developed countries?! Your comment makes absolutely no sense, care to elaborate and give examples? Look
290 RomeoBravo : Ok, every week i go to work, i only start earning money for myself at the start of Wednesday. Monday and Tuesday all my money goes towards politician
291 FlyPNS1 : Then move to a country with no government! Oh wait, not too many of those around. At least not countries you'd really want to live in. I hear Somalia
292 BMI727 : It's exponentially more expensive. And the government shouldn't provide welfare either. Well, yeah. One's run by the government. Then they'd have to
293 WarRI1 : I wonder if you have any idea of what would happen in this country, if all of a sudden welfare,and food stamps and all other assistance were suddenly
294 FlyPNS1 : Poor folks aren't getting blue chip healthcare under Obamacare or under any system for that matter. And they still have to pay in some. And not havin
295 BMI727 : How can someone who purports to be the champion of the little people have so little respect for them? We pay them for that. Not nearly what they woul
296 WarRI1 : Unlike you, I understand the human condition, look around see the fruits of our society in the inner cities. Unlike you, I know what hunger and depri
297 BMI727 : People can get fed in jail then. Plenty all around me doesn't matter much if it isn't mine.
298 WarRI1 : Remember the premise, cut off all assistance to 47 million, and then deal with the aftermath. What do you propose, a concentration camp to deal with
299 BMI727 : Well I suppose that might be the case if poor people really are the uncivilized savages you believe them to be. I doubt they are that way though. I'm
300 tugger : You keep saying that, trying to implicate something against others but it is just not the case. To me it is just the way things should be. It is not
301 BMI727 : I'm not implicating it, I'm outright saying it. Maybe it's just my sunny personality shining through, but I tend to think that the lower classes of A
302 tugger : I'm not, we're not. I'm using my money, and this stuff is voted on (even if the results are not what you desired). I am making my decision based on w
303 Post contains links BestWestern : Think of all those old tea party members who could vote GOP! Life expectancy in the USA 77.9 OECD average 79.3 Rise in life expectancy between 1983 an
304 Post contains links Revelation : Meanwhile we read that the Tea Party filibuster to block the Senate bill that doesn't de-fund Obamacare is collapsing: Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/effo
305 pvjin : Poverty creates crime, that's a fact that can be seen absolutely everywhere on this planet. It has nothing to do with someone being a savage. Majorit
306 Post contains images L0VE2FLY : You're not the only one, we all pay taxes, and if you're not happy with the tax system in the UK, you can always move to a government-free country as
307 Post contains links iowaman : Due to length, this thread will be archived. Here is part two: Too Late To Stop Obama Care? Part 2 (by iowaman Sep 24 2013 in Non Aviation)
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Israel - Obama To Stop The Money? posted Sun Feb 15 2009 06:50:35 by NAV20
Obama Is Too Far To The Right posted Thu Jan 15 2009 11:36:31 by WellHung
City Of Phoenix To Stop Buying LNG Transit Buses posted Tue Jan 15 2013 19:50:59 by 1337Delta764
Fox News First To Predict Obama Re-election? posted Thu Nov 8 2012 07:00:44 by rfields5421
Hurricane Sandy To Help Obama? posted Wed Oct 31 2012 09:49:44 by bmacleod
Best Way To Stop A Wedding? posted Mon Oct 8 2012 13:03:26 by usflyer msp
Your Chance To Meet Obama And The Working Class posted Fri Jun 15 2012 13:59:53 by Superfly
Biden: "it’s Just Too Hard To Explain" posted Thu Oct 14 2010 01:09:07 by fr8mech
Chavez Says No To New Obama Ambassador. posted Sun Aug 8 2010 19:54:21 by fxramper
House To Pass Health Care Without Voting posted Thu Mar 11 2010 10:46:56 by Dreadnought